Its not really proof, but I know verant did this on purpose because I used to work for them. They actually brought in "experts" to consult for things like spawn times, reward levels, etc.
I say these things are true, but you're not going to believe me despite the overwealming evidence to the contrary. If you can cite for me ANY other video game that has caused more people to become addicted, I'll withdraw the argument. There's been at least 3 suicides caused by EQ to hit the news, numerous people have lost jobs, failed high chool or college, gotten divorced, etc. Yes, I know it has happened to other games on a fringe, but not with the alarming regularity that it has happened with EQ.
Ways DAoC differs from EQ for addictiveness:
#1: when you die in EQ you lose everything. This is by design because if you quit out of frustration you will get this feeling of "sunk cost", you'll want to go back to get your corpse because if you don't you will feel you have lost all your "effort". In DAoC, if you die, you've lost nothing. If you get killed you can just turn the game off, no questions asked. You won't lose a thing.
#2: DAoC can be run in a window. Everquest can't. Having a clock visible would ruin the atmosphere, not to mention, let the player know exactly how long he's been playing. Everquest locks the player into doing one thing with their computer. Sure, many addicts go and do other things while playing EQ, but isn't that silly?
#3: Leveling is linear in DAoC, not so in EQ. In fact, EQ has these things called "hell levels" designed mathematically so that every 5 levels the level you are in is twice as hard as the last. But then the next level is actually easier. So its harder to level from 35 to 36 as it is from 36 to 37. This is to create "hurdles" so that the player thinks, "If I can just make it past 35 I'll be ok for a while". This is the rollercoaster effect.
#4: Forward progress in EQ is hidden from the player. DAoC tells you exactly where you are. In fact, DAoC gives you the exact amount of XP you earned for killing something. All everquest gives you is an inexact meter. You can see it slowly slowly moving as you go along.
#5: In EverQuest, items are MUCH harder to get. Quests take WEEKS if not MONTHS. In DAoC you can do your classes epic quest in an evening, soloing most of it, or get a pickup group to finish off the last boss. Quest monsters spawn very quickly so theres none of the camping a zone for days for a rare spawn crap such as in EQ. Not to mention, in DAoC everyone who is on the quest gets the quest item if they are grouped, so there's no fighting over quest spawns either. Whats this mean? Its the sunk cost theory again, you don't want to quit because of what you've put into it already.
Finally, if you don't believe me that DAoC is nothing like Everquest at all, simply go to eBay and see what DAoC stuff sells for as opposed to Everquest stuff.
Trust me, people pretty much come and go on DAoC as they please. With Everquest, People were hooked, and a lot of them stayed, to this very day.
In the case of the guy I'm talking about, yeah, he ended up getting divorced, but he doesn't care, because his computer still loves him, for whatever thats worth.
Actually, no, read the article, in fact, do a google search of your own.
The designers of the game actually designed the delays and risk/reward system to tightly mirror a skinner box model, so much so that eventually in order to keep the subject addicted, the rewards are often substituted for punishments.
If you ever really played everquest you'd know what I say is true, Everquest is designed around addiction, not fun.
Fun is not necesarally addicting. You don't hear about people losing their families over playing "tetris" do you?
Yet, given my involvment in the MMORPG community (I run one of the most successful DAoC guilds gamewide, although my playtime is less than 10 hours a month on it anymore), I hear stories all the time about how people failed college, got divorced, etc. hell some even committed suicide over such crap.
Yet you say its, "just a game" and like any other is designed to entice the user.
What you're missing is the point, its a game thats HARD to quit. Many have done so, including myself. However, many more are so completely addicted that they'll even miss the birth of their own child because its "Guild raid night." (Yes, I know someone who did just that.)
Yes, Everquest exploits psychological behavior to the point that it becomes a strong addiction with very disturbing consequences.
As I said in my original post, it IS up to the individual to steer away from such vices. However, I draw the comparison from cigarettes to everquest for the very reason that it has been proven in court that Cigarette companies specifically designed their products to be more addictive. Everquest has done the same. EQ might not cause cancer (though the unhealthy lifestyle lead by many addicts is just as deadly) but it does cause a lot of people to withdraw from their families and society altogether.
Speak to any former addict about it, and don't just make assumptions that its "just a game". Its marketed as "just a game" but no other game deveoper has copied the design that EQ has. Some games are addictive because they are fun, yet everquest has 400k+ customers and probably a good 75% hate the game they play. This is true. This is addiction.
The most startling fact about EverQuest is how well it conforms to the Skinner Box model, making one believe that Verant specifically designed their product around principles to make it more addictive than it would be otherwise.
Honestly, if the company is exploiting psychological theory in order to make their game addictive on purpose, its not much different from cigarette companies using nicotine or cola companies using caffiene IMO.
Bad? Maybe... I've heard of a lot of otherwise well adjusted people playing EQ to thier own detriment. But then, ultimately it is the responsibility of the individual to take care of themselves.
Another version of this story was posted on CNET news. Where he states how he's going to raise money for his $16k legal fees, making corporate videos for how to not be socially hacked.
"I've missed a period" - girl "Shit!... are you sure?" - cult leader "Well, yes, dammit. I told you to use protection! What do you care, you've gotten half the women in this cult pregnant." - girl "Yeah, but they're not 15... this could be bad. Uh... I know! We'll send you away for a while!" - cult leader "What about the kid? What do we do when he comes back?" - girl "We'll put out a press release saying he's really a clone, we'll even post it on slashdot! I'm sure everyone will believe us!" - cult leader
[i]"I think Slashdot should start an event called "Music Return Day". Here's how it works: Get as many people to buy a known copy-restricted CD as possible. Then, locate a national store that'll accept returns on 'defective CDs' (Best Buy or Walmart maybe?) then, on a particular date, have everybody return that CD.[/i]
Actually, my wife works at Target. She told me that there are several CDs with "known" issues that they'll take back and exchange for another CD with no questions asked, even though the normal exchange policy is for the same title only if opened. They are returned frequently for not working in people's players.
I don't have a list of the titles, but from what I gather its becoming more and more common. To the point that it will probably annoy the corporate buyers enough that this stuff will stop before it gets too common, IMO.
And if you really want to be secure, unplug your computer from the network completely! No one will be able to hack you then!
BUT WAIT! If they get access to the computer they might, so lets unplug it from electricity, then the data will be REALLY secure.
NO WAIT! What happens if they pull the hard drive out and connect it to another computer? I know, lets chop up the hard drive into little pieces to make sure that doesn't happen, then we'll be REALLY SECURE!
Just don't write any thing down on a piece of paper, you never know into whose hands it might end up.
When I got laid off right after the September 11th attacks, my Job was shipped to India.
Sometimes I wonder if the whole economic problem we're having is due to many companies doing this same thing, exporting our high paying jobs to other countries. It saves them money in the short run, but in the long run its taking money out of our country and slowing our economy.
But then, I'm not an economist, and eventually, I did get another job with another company. But I was unemployed for a year, thats 1 year of my salary that I was unable to produce because my job went overseas. If you add that up over all the people in the industry who are in similar situations.
It was grim, being unemployed for a year. I even contemplated switching industries, actually thought about becoming a Truck Driver to sustain my family. But for me, my job is more of a love than a carreer. Its what I do. Its my hobby, its my passion, and I really don't want to do anything else.
But the guy in the story wants to give up on his job because he got laid off from one company, thats sad. Maybe for what he does its necesary, I don't know, but there are other jobs out there, and who knows.
That ought to be just enough to hold the LotR collectors edition with all 3 special editions, all 3 regular editions, and 56.2 hours of special footage detailing every aspect of every actors life, and every thought that went through Peter Jackson's head in the last 12 years (not to mention, Sean Astin's 6 hours of bitching about how his hobbit sized underwear kept riding up while filming) all on ONE DVD! In both Widescreen and Fullscreen formats!
On my wish list of things I would buy should I win a ton of money to waste in the lottery is a DeLorean complete with Mr. Fusion mock up, and a flame thrower device that blasts fire when I hit 88 miles per hour.
That and a kick-ass sound system to play the theme music wherever I went.
Yes but his point was valid that that information should be presented more clearly on the official XBox Live site, you shouldn't have to resort to googling for external information to get vital product information.
The only real difference between a contractor and an employee is how you get your paycheck. To say that someone is going to be more honest just because they are an actual employee is assinine.
I'm a contractor and I take my job very seriously, there is no way in hell I would ever betray the confidence of any of my employers. Not just because it would tarnish my reputation with future employers but also because I am that kind of person.
The company I am contracted to right now is very contractor friendly, I've seen some that are not. But the whole attitude that contractors are somehow less deserving of trust than regular employees really irritates me.
Now this guy clearly broke his contract. But it would not have made a difference if he were a regular employee or a contractor, the responsibility for trust is in the individual, not in how his contract of employment is written. I'm sure regular employees at Apple have the same moral obligations to keep a lid on trade secrets./rant off
"Lets see how far we can string these stupid brits along for great comedy".
Which of course started with:
"I bet you can't get them to bring a piano out here." "Bet you I can!" "Nah, no way." "Yeah I can! And I'll even up that, I'll get them to bring a GRANDE Piano, AND we'll tell them our village is flooded!" "Hahaha, there's no way they'd be that dumb."
But of course, my favorite part of the whole story is where all they thought they would have to do is "shout at them" to move the piano.
Slashdot Mirror
Not really a zealot...
Its not really proof, but I know verant did this on purpose because I used to work for them. They actually brought in "experts" to consult for things like spawn times, reward levels, etc.
I say these things are true, but you're not going to believe me despite the overwealming evidence to the contrary. If you can cite for me ANY other video game that has caused more people to become addicted, I'll withdraw the argument. There's been at least 3 suicides caused by EQ to hit the news, numerous people have lost jobs, failed high chool or college, gotten divorced, etc. Yes, I know it has happened to other games on a fringe, but not with the alarming regularity that it has happened with EQ.
Ways DAoC differs from EQ for addictiveness:
#1: when you die in EQ you lose everything. This is by design because if you quit out of frustration you will get this feeling of "sunk cost", you'll want to go back to get your corpse because if you don't you will feel you have lost all your "effort". In DAoC, if you die, you've lost nothing. If you get killed you can just turn the game off, no questions asked. You won't lose a thing.
#2: DAoC can be run in a window. Everquest can't. Having a clock visible would ruin the atmosphere, not to mention, let the player know exactly how long he's been playing. Everquest locks the player into doing one thing with their computer. Sure, many addicts go and do other things while playing EQ, but isn't that silly?
#3: Leveling is linear in DAoC, not so in EQ. In fact, EQ has these things called "hell levels" designed mathematically so that every 5 levels the level you are in is twice as hard as the last. But then the next level is actually easier. So its harder to level from 35 to 36 as it is from 36 to 37. This is to create "hurdles" so that the player thinks, "If I can just make it past 35 I'll be ok for a while". This is the rollercoaster effect.
#4: Forward progress in EQ is hidden from the player. DAoC tells you exactly where you are. In fact, DAoC gives you the exact amount of XP you earned for killing something. All everquest gives you is an inexact meter. You can see it slowly slowly moving as you go along.
#5: In EverQuest, items are MUCH harder to get. Quests take WEEKS if not MONTHS. In DAoC you can do your classes epic quest in an evening, soloing most of it, or get a pickup group to finish off the last boss. Quest monsters spawn very quickly so theres none of the camping a zone for days for a rare spawn crap such as in EQ. Not to mention, in DAoC everyone who is on the quest gets the quest item if they are grouped, so there's no fighting over quest spawns either. Whats this mean? Its the sunk cost theory again, you don't want to quit because of what you've put into it already.
Finally, if you don't believe me that DAoC is nothing like Everquest at all, simply go to eBay and see what DAoC stuff sells for as opposed to Everquest stuff.
Trust me, people pretty much come and go on DAoC as they please. With Everquest, People were hooked, and a lot of them stayed, to this very day.
In the case of the guy I'm talking about, yeah, he ended up getting divorced, but he doesn't care, because his computer still loves him, for whatever thats worth.
These kind of people scare me.
Actually, no, read the article, in fact, do a google search of your own.
The designers of the game actually designed the delays and risk/reward system to tightly mirror a skinner box model, so much so that eventually in order to keep the subject addicted, the rewards are often substituted for punishments.
If you ever really played everquest you'd know what I say is true, Everquest is designed around addiction, not fun.
Fun is not necesarally addicting. You don't hear about people losing their families over playing "tetris" do you?
Yet, given my involvment in the MMORPG community (I run one of the most successful DAoC guilds gamewide, although my playtime is less than 10 hours a month on it anymore), I hear stories all the time about how people failed college, got divorced, etc. hell some even committed suicide over such crap.
Yet you say its, "just a game" and like any other is designed to entice the user.
What you're missing is the point, its a game thats HARD to quit. Many have done so, including myself. However, many more are so completely addicted that they'll even miss the birth of their own child because its "Guild raid night." (Yes, I know someone who did just that.)
Yes, Everquest exploits psychological behavior to the point that it becomes a strong addiction with very disturbing consequences.
As I said in my original post, it IS up to the individual to steer away from such vices. However, I draw the comparison from cigarettes to everquest for the very reason that it has been proven in court that Cigarette companies specifically designed their products to be more addictive. Everquest has done the same. EQ might not cause cancer (though the unhealthy lifestyle lead by many addicts is just as deadly) but it does cause a lot of people to withdraw from their families and society altogether.
Speak to any former addict about it, and don't just make assumptions that its "just a game". Its marketed as "just a game" but no other game deveoper has copied the design that EQ has. Some games are addictive because they are fun, yet everquest has 400k+ customers and probably a good 75% hate the game they play. This is true. This is addiction.
This is not a game, its a vice.
The most startling fact about EverQuest is how well it conforms to the Skinner Box model, making one believe that Verant specifically designed their product around principles to make it more addictive than it would be otherwise.
Here is an interesting read on that subject.
Honestly, if the company is exploiting psychological theory in order to make their game addictive on purpose, its not much different from cigarette companies using nicotine or cola companies using caffiene IMO.
Bad? Maybe... I've heard of a lot of otherwise well adjusted people playing EQ to thier own detriment. But then, ultimately it is the responsibility of the individual to take care of themselves.
"Not being allowed to use the Internet is kind of like not being allowed to use a telephone," Mitnick said Thursday in a phone interview.
hehe
Another version of this story was posted on CNET news. Where he states how he's going to raise money for his $16k legal fees, making corporate videos for how to not be socially hacked.
"I've missed a period" - girl ... are you sure?" - cult leader ... this could be bad. Uh... I know! We'll send you away for a while!" - cult leader
"Shit!
"Well, yes, dammit. I told you to use protection! What do you care, you've gotten half the women in this cult pregnant." - girl
"Yeah, but they're not 15
"What about the kid? What do we do when he comes back?" - girl
"We'll put out a press release saying he's really a clone, we'll even post it on slashdot! I'm sure everyone will believe us!" - cult leader
[i]"I think Slashdot should start an event called "Music Return Day". Here's how it works: Get as many people to buy a known copy-restricted CD as possible. Then, locate a national store that'll accept returns on 'defective CDs' (Best Buy or Walmart maybe?) then, on a particular date, have everybody return that CD.[/i]
Actually, my wife works at Target. She told me that there are several CDs with "known" issues that they'll take back and exchange for another CD with no questions asked, even though the normal exchange policy is for the same title only if opened. They are returned frequently for not working in people's players.
I don't have a list of the titles, but from what I gather its becoming more and more common. To the point that it will probably annoy the corporate buyers enough that this stuff will stop before it gets too common, IMO.
And if you really want to be secure, unplug your computer from the network completely! No one will be able to hack you then!
BUT WAIT! If they get access to the computer they might, so lets unplug it from electricity, then the data will be REALLY secure.
NO WAIT! What happens if they pull the hard drive out and connect it to another computer? I know, lets chop up the hard drive into little pieces to make sure that doesn't happen, then we'll be REALLY SECURE!
Just don't write any thing down on a piece of paper, you never know into whose hands it might end up.
When I got laid off right after the September 11th attacks, my Job was shipped to India.
Sometimes I wonder if the whole economic problem we're having is due to many companies doing this same thing, exporting our high paying jobs to other countries. It saves them money in the short run, but in the long run its taking money out of our country and slowing our economy.
But then, I'm not an economist, and eventually, I did get another job with another company. But I was unemployed for a year, thats 1 year of my salary that I was unable to produce because my job went overseas. If you add that up over all the people in the industry who are in similar situations.
It was grim, being unemployed for a year. I even contemplated switching industries, actually thought about becoming a Truck Driver to sustain my family. But for me, my job is more of a love than a carreer. Its what I do. Its my hobby, its my passion, and I really don't want to do anything else.
But the guy in the story wants to give up on his job because he got laid off from one company, thats sad. Maybe for what he does its necesary, I don't know, but there are other jobs out there, and who knows.
Anyway, thats my 2p.
I'm still waiting for Space Balls The Sequel: The Search for More Money !
WOW! 1.5 TB!
That ought to be just enough to hold the LotR collectors edition with all 3 special editions, all 3 regular editions, and 56.2 hours of special footage detailing every aspect of every actors life, and every thought that went through Peter Jackson's head in the last 12 years (not to mention, Sean Astin's 6 hours of bitching about how his hobbit sized underwear kept riding up while filming) all on ONE DVD! In both Widescreen and Fullscreen formats!
Awesome!
Modding it to be cooler so it runs longer?
...
... really ... hot ...
Nah.
I bet you it destroys more paper if you mod it to run hot
really
On my wish list of things I would buy should I win a ton of money to waste in the lottery is a DeLorean complete with Mr. Fusion mock up, and a flame thrower device that blasts fire when I hit 88 miles per hour.
...
That and a kick-ass sound system to play the theme music wherever I went.
Just need that hover conversion kit
*sigh, childhood dreams*
I traveled back in the future to post this comment just today, knowing full well a Back to the Future post was on the way!
I still want my hoverboard. And my regenerated spleen. Never know when having an extra spleen could come in handy.
And, if you believe Back to the Future 2, we need an AWFUL lot of Jaws sequels between now and 2015.
Yes but his point was valid that that information should be presented more clearly on the official XBox Live site, you shouldn't have to resort to googling for external information to get vital product information.
Build my own mac?
...
I used to do that all the time, was easy...
2 all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese
You may as well say, don't trust ANYONE.
/rant off
The only real difference between a contractor and an employee is how you get your paycheck. To say that someone is going to be more honest just because they are an actual employee is assinine.
I'm a contractor and I take my job very seriously, there is no way in hell I would ever betray the confidence of any of my employers. Not just because it would tarnish my reputation with future employers but also because I am that kind of person.
The company I am contracted to right now is very contractor friendly, I've seen some that are not. But the whole attitude that contractors are somehow less deserving of trust than regular employees really irritates me.
Now this guy clearly broke his contract. But it would not have made a difference if he were a regular employee or a contractor, the responsibility for trust is in the individual, not in how his contract of employment is written. I'm sure regular employees at Apple have the same moral obligations to keep a lid on trade secrets.
"Khaaaaaaaan!"
sorry, I'll quit now.
Perhaps not so much wasted bandwidth, if much of the push data is multicast.
No, it was all part of the great Wai Wai:
"Lets see how far we can string these stupid brits along for great comedy".
Which of course started with:
"I bet you can't get them to bring a piano out here."
"Bet you I can!"
"Nah, no way."
"Yeah I can! And I'll even up that, I'll get them to bring a GRANDE Piano, AND we'll tell them our village is flooded!"
"Hahaha, there's no way they'd be that dumb."
But of course, my favorite part of the whole story is where all they thought they would have to do is "shout at them" to move the piano.
"Wai Wai strong, British Weak!"
You ought to make that sentence more clear to people like me that have trouble reading things.
I first read it as:
"Turning Microsoft On Screws Customers"
You call your boss honey?
Doesn't everybody?
This is not going to make it easy to click off the window downloading pr0n right as the boss walks in...
"No really honey, I wasn't looking at her, it just popped on the screen by a virus."
"uh huh"