Slashdot Mirror
Apple Accuses Worker of Leaks
booboothefoo writes "A former Apple Computer contract worker in Sacramento has been slapped with both civil and criminal charges for allegedly
leaking Apple's trade secrets on the Internet." I think the real message here is "don't trust contractors." Or maybe "rumor sites are evil." Or maybe "Setec Astronomy."
Props on the 'Sneakers' reference. What a great movie. I'm pretty sure I've got it in my DVD library - I'll have to dig it up and watch it tonight.
Unless, of course, scissors can't cut rock...
I mean, the guy posted schematics, for god's sake. Did he honestly think they wouldn't figure out where those came from?
When the pics were posted, most people said "No way!" and came up with a bunch of reasons for the pics to be fake... then it turned out they were real. I doubt there were any lost sales from the knowledge, as everyone was expecting PowerMac updates of some type anyway.
"The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
why can't employees (especially so-called "professionals") have some ethics and do simple things like NOT STEAL FROM THEIR EMPLOYERS?
I think the real message here is "don't trust contractors." Or maybe "rumor sites are evil." Or maybe "Setec Astronomy."
That's funny, the message I took away from it was that if you violate a contract, the company has the right to, and often will, sue you.
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
don't leak trade secrets. Duh.
free ipod? yeah.
"Setec Astronomy" = anagram("Too Many Secrets");
"An unknown defendant called Doe 1 is also named in the suit." Apple: "We don't know who they are yet, but were suing them irregardless...Why? because I have a MIGHTY NEEED to sue nameless individuals..."
Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
Information is immuteable, if someone needs to know, someone else needs to know too.
http://tf2.digitaljedi.com
Employee signs NDA. Employee breaks NDA. Employer gets mad. This is news?
Illegitimi non Carborundum.
the corporate game is ugly and unnatural and anyone asked to "keep secrets from your fellows" is liable to forget and let word slip because it's such a damn unsightly, ass-biting, bad-fitting shoe.
Apple really tries to control any media exposure to its products with an iron fist.. I'm still kinda wondering if Time Canada (I think that's who leaked the new iMac) every felt Steve's wrath.
I'm a contractor. stop bashing us. It's a good living.
"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas"
Sen. Davy Crocket to US Congress, Nov. 1, 1835
= Too Many Secrets
If guns kill people, then CmdrTaco's keyboard misspells words.
Think of HOW MANY people see Apple's products before they hit the stores/web
What kind of evidence do they have?
Obvious troll, but I'll bite I guess.
When you sign a non disclosure agreement and then disclose information covered by the agreement you have violeted a contract. At that point any company will follow through with legal action against you. Not just Apple or Microsoft. Any company that has trade secrets is going to do what they can to protect them. This isn't apple holding on to brainspace. This is about someone violating the terms of a contract and Apple following through on enforcing it.
It's pretty simple. He screwed up. (And he got caught)
He shouldn't have done it. There's no defense for it. Apple might be going at it heavy-handed, but only a fool would have tried this knowing that Apple (Jobs) will hurt -vendors- over leaks. He bitch-slapped ATI over leaking, so he's going to -hurt- some guy that leaks a photo or sketch of a new machine design.
Yes, it's heavy-handed. Yes, it made me wince. But all in all, the guy did fuck up.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
On a side note, it's crap like this that really screws it for other contractors. When I was a contractor at HP, we had such a good working relationship with the people there that we were allowed to use the basketball court. None of the other contractors were.
I always speculated that Apple intentionally created and fueled all these rumor sites..... it does make sense. It's all sorts of free marketing and when a product does finnally see the streets there is enough buzz to attract major-media attention and get them some serious publicity.
Why would they want to jeopardize that?
My guess is that this guy seriously pissed some people off by doing other things.... like..... mocking the interface at the company xmas party.
Oh, relax. Any company would have done this. It's not that Apple is evil. They're defending their ability to unveil their product in the way that they feel is best, and protecting their rights under an NDA.
Maybe the real story here is how people feel a moral and emotional "ownership" of Apple that has them react with revulsion when Apple behaves like the for-profit company that they are!
Contract workers being treated like shit?! when did this happen? good lord. breaking news to be sure.
Instead of "don't trust contractors," how about "Don't fucking steal company's trade secrets!"?
Your next sig should read: "If you EAT FOOD, befriend me."
Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
News Corp, too. I think they're called News Ltd. in Oz, but I'm too lazy to be bothered looking it up. They own just too damn much. Rupert Murdoch scares me. Anybody who would renounce citizenship in his own birth-country purely for business ends isn't the kind of guy I want in charge of telling me what I get to see and hear every day.
I write in my journal
...that Apple is a Brezhnevite shit of a company, undeserving of our praise.
I have been asked to sign a few NDAs, I just said "I'm taking them home to review them." I then never spoke of them again, and was never asked for them back.
It's not as if they're suing a rumors site or going after someone saying bad things about them. This guy signed an NDA -- a real live legal contract, you'll note, not some click-though thing of arguable validity, or something that can only be enforced by twisting the DMCA in strange ways. He then proceeded to blatantly violate that NDA. This lawsuit is completely legitimate -- any company in Apple's position would do the same.
This space unintentionally left unblank.
Or maybe the real message is, on a slow news day we have nothing better to post.
Really, in Lorne Greene/Marc Anderssen Internet years/time, how old is this news?
How controversial is it? If it weren't Apple but somebody as supremely unsexy like say, Unisys, would it even be news?
This is neither news - it's past it's prime, nor is it something "that matters".
"oohhh... I didn't know Schopenhauer was a philosopher!"
..."Setec Astronomy"
:]
setec astronomy = rats cooty semen?
Fess up. Are you trying to get the most friends on slashdot, or the most foes on slashdot?
Apple has a history of protecting its goods and creativity and for that reason, I somehow doubt if it mattered whether or not the person leaking the trade secret in this case was a contractor.
My understanding is that if Apple does not actively protect and police its trade secrets, then its innovative goods and ideas no longer receive protection as trade secrets. No evidence is required to show that Apple is an innovative company --- if it did not receive protection for its innovation, then it may have little reason to create future innovative products.
Considering the pervasiveness of companies to recruit employees from other companies by using 'moles,' and Microsoft's history of heavy-handed tactics, perhaps Apple has another reason to protection its innovation: Microsoft.
Do you truly believe Microsoft has never placed a 'mole' or has an Apple employee it relies on for information? For also this reason, Apple has no choice but to pursue trade secrets claims in court against everyone it can, or it will entirely lose protection.
Pretty much, Apple is all about innovation and cutting-edge products. Take that away, and all I see is a company making an OS, keyboards, and mice.
they do this because if they do not aggressively pursue enforcement of certain Intellectual Property (IP) laws, a court may find one day that their brand has been allowed to erode. In other words, their TM will become watered down from a legal standpoint, so its stronger for them to sue everyone they can, than to let most of it slide and then lose when it counts.
this is what happens to a company after they sue m$ and win the battle, while losing the war.
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
They are not ripping anything off.
BSD code is BSD code because it is code under a BSD(-like) license. That means everybody is allowed to do with it what he likes (as long as he follows those simple restrictions that come with it) - that the spirit of real *free* software.
Is this Negative Apple Press Week on Slashdot? First there was the whole NTT thing where commenters refused to admit that NTT was actually using Apple technology. Then there was the stupid GNU Darwin post, and now this.
When did the e-mail announcing NAPWeek go out? I missed it.
mbbac
That's pretty good R2D2. Bet you can multiply really fast too. Look up "pedant" while you're at it.
"I'm sorry Madam, but your crystal ball has to be shut down for precdicting trade secrets and reverse engineering technology in violation of the DMCA, please come along quietly."
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
To act in this manner when information sensitive to the company's business is leaked by employee, contractor or other, regardless of how its perceived.
Hades, PoD: Official Advocate
I mean, information wants to be free, right?
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
/. is NOT the place to get your apple 'news'
try thinksecret, macslash, macrumors, macosrumors, macnn, macsurfer, etc etc.
You may as well say, don't trust ANYONE.
/rant off
The only real difference between a contractor and an employee is how you get your paycheck. To say that someone is going to be more honest just because they are an actual employee is assinine.
I'm a contractor and I take my job very seriously, there is no way in hell I would ever betray the confidence of any of my employers. Not just because it would tarnish my reputation with future employers but also because I am that kind of person.
The company I am contracted to right now is very contractor friendly, I've seen some that are not. But the whole attitude that contractors are somehow less deserving of trust than regular employees really irritates me.
Now this guy clearly broke his contract. But it would not have made a difference if he were a regular employee or a contractor, the responsibility for trust is in the individual, not in how his contract of employment is written. I'm sure regular employees at Apple have the same moral obligations to keep a lid on trade secrets.
Hmm... Maybe this will explain...
Note to mods: Since "Setec Astronomy" was in the main page summary, this is on topic.
I dunno what his goal is.. but after reading his last few posts he's going from friend to foe for me...
magnanomous.
I am a contractor for Volt, at Apple, in Sacramento, this guy did violate the NDA, and if you have ever worked here, thats a big big no-no, you don't leak confidential information, there are markers everywhere, he didn't do it on accident, and he should get in trouble for it, I can't comment on how big a fight they are putting against him, but he did mess up, and thats the consequences.
and to the guy talking about 'ripping off BSD code and selling it for Millions' Apple GIVES AWAY DARWIN under open source guidelines, and it works on PC's and on Mac's, they only 'sell' the Quartz interface (the one WE developed), quit bitching, they give it away, they aren't ripping it off, its a superior product, its free, they used it, this is what SHOULD be happening, Microsoft is a different story.
Thanks for enlightening me on contract law, I apologized if you failed to see the statement behind my statement.
It seems that Apple has a history of going after people in order to maintain what they call "Trade Secrets." I remember quite a few episodes where they went after websites and conventional news media outlets for posting or discussing products. The People's Republic of China has a similar history of this sort of behavior, and not unlike Apple it's followers embrace it with a cultish fanatacism and a reluctance to be open minded about differing opinion.
GetTheJob.com : Nothing but Real Jobs.
Maybe the real story here is how people feel a moral and emotional "ownership" of Apple that has them react with revulsion when Apple behaves like the for-profit company that they are!
Hm. In light of the absolutely insane emotional reactions that Slashdotters have to Microsoft, HP, and Red Hat, I'd say that that's not a particularly interesting story either.
If there's one at all, it's that Slashdotters, as a group, tend to take everything way too seriously.
I write in my journal
Yeah, what kind of trade secrets did he leak? "Apple's going to release a new computer, that's going to be shiny and brightly colored and win lots of design awards." I bet nobody saw that one coming! :)
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Mirror here to the Sneakers script.
This is why I do my own plumbing. Anyone who puts their toilet main in the hands of other is surley misguided at best.
They didn't rip shit off. If you want the BSD code.. you can d/l it for free with x86 Darwin. They charge $$ for osx, because it is much more than BSD code.. Think of it this way. You can d/l net/open/whateverbsd, install it, spend countless hours tryin to figure out how to configure it, and have a mediocore end product. Or you can fork out ~$100 bucks, get a solid bsd core, beautiful interface, support, and a meriad of other things. hmm. Why aren't you all over lindows??? they 'stole' the linux kernel too... right???
magnanomous.
They consider contracts you sign when you get a job valid? Oh my!! Next thing you know they will say all those software EULA we all click past are valid contracts!!!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
what are you modding my parent down for? It's the straight shit! Corporations, like all blood-sucking baby-eating world-defiling sub-human organisms, suck. They suck worms out my cat's ass. Apple sucks. Microsoft sucks. Redhat sucks. Humans, otoh, rule.
Because information wants to be FREE!! This guy is a hero!
Ok... here's some more nuggets that weren't disclosed in the article.
1. The contractor in question is really..
Oh wait, I'm late for court.
Indeed! This why I reacted the way I did, because the cultists have an image of Apple being this enlightened company, a modern-day technological Willa Wonka. They are as ruthless, bloodsucking, and eager to use the "law" to their advantage as the companies the cultists themselves bash. Bah HUMBUG!
GetTheJob.com : Nothing but Real Jobs.
So... the guy broke an NDA concerning the DNA and now faces a DA because he didn't CYA!
----- I want my LART.
Today's Washington Post has a feature story on employee blogs and the legal problems that can follow workers who post any sort of company info., from the mundane to the specific.
Apple: "We don't know who they are yet, but were
suing them irregardless...Why? because I have a
^^^^^^^^^^^^
MIGHTY NEEED to sue nameless individuals..."
"Irrespective," perhaps?
"Regardless," maybe?
The news is "Employer sues employee." Getting mad is not news, but filing a suit certainly is. Most skirmishes don't make the papers until some formal action serves as a triggering event. That's why settlements are so popular, and usually unpublicized.
out of the guy is what it sounds like according to the article
:)
"This suit against Lopez helps show the company vigorously tries to protect its secrets, Mireles said. In addition, such suits could serve to deter other potential leakers, he said"
Apple has taken legal action against coworkers that leaked info in the past (also mentioned in the article) but I think the real reason why they got upset is
"Steve uses Macworld and other appearances more effectively than any other (technology) leader," Bajarin said. "In that context they want to have that surprise element," because posting those secrets early dilutes the impact, Bajarin said."
of course the lawyers will argue:
"Innovation is in Apple's DNA, so the protection of trade secrets is crucial to our success. Our policy is to take legal actions where necessary to preserve the confidentiality of our intellectual property," Apple said in a prepared statement.
Just because Apple made a great new OS - doesn't mean they're avid sourceforge users
Ave Molech Setting
Apple and Microsoft obtained BSD code through legal, ethical and moral means, unlike a certain unnamed *cough* Linux *cough* OS
I don't agree with Apple going after rumor sites, rumors are rumors. However, when an employee, a contractor, or a vendor violates thier contract then said company has the right to go after them. This article is about a contractor under such an agreement providing the rumor sites with "Trade Secrets." Your comment is irrelevant to the topic at hand unless you provide the background information you are referring to. Also, comparing Apples actions to those of the PRC is just as much extremism as those that defend Apples every move regardless of it being good or bad.
I for one find this extremely disgusting. I understand that businesses need to protect their trade secrets, but I think this crosses the line.
From the article:
Gutierrez agreed to settle the suit by turning over any confidential information he retained
I can already envision the appointed neural surgeon scooping out the little bit of grey that retains Gutierrez's memory of Apple.
I'll have something intelligent to add one of these days...
He, if convicted, is a thief! If you cannot see that, just try sneaking into my house! I will shoot you dead!
It's events that happened that may be of interest to the readers.
An employee leaking news and getting caught is not something that happens on a daily basis. It interests us to learn what will happen to him.
Information might want to be free. But I think people respect that a promise is a promise, and if you say you are going to keep a secret then break that promise you deserve whatever you get.
Just because information WANTS to be free, doesn't mean it SHOULD be freed at first opportunity. That (overused) quote really means "once information is out it is gone", not that sometimes it's not possible to keep information secret for some time, just that it is hard.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I think the real message here is "don't trust contractors." Or maybe "rumor sites are evil." Or maybe "Setec Astronomy."
How about "don't use contractors" or "have the wherewithall to actually hire people".
It looks like Apple was trying to score some cheap labor but didn't want to get their hands dirty. So they contracted with Volt to get some sweatshop laborers. (Laguna is basically where they build Macs - well there and Mexicali).
Well whaddya know, looks like they got what they paid for.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Steve and John Doe compare egos, steve wins, John Doe leaks GM photos, Steve sues,
I wish I had your job (or lack thereof). I can't believe the amount of free time you can spend here doing this shit. Maybe you're being salaried by Taco and friends...?
It sounds like they are much more worried about stealing Jobs' thunder at MacWorld and bruising his ego than loss of IP.
Fourth post fails you!
Do you mean asinine? Like replying to someone's post for the sole purpose of correcting spelling?
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
The People's Republic of China
Oooh, it's the People's Republic of China defense! Wow, you must be right, then!
Seriously, Apple is far from the only company with a supposed "history" of going after people to maintain what they call "trade secrets." Trade secrets are probably the most underappreciated intellectual property protection device to those who really don't spend their time thinking about it. Does anyone here know the formula for Coke? Kentucky Fried Chicken's Original Recipe Chicken? The secret sauce on the steak frites at La Relais d'Entrecote in Paris?
We talk about patents all the time on Slashdot, but for every patent a company pursues, there are loads of trade secrets they are protecting through secrecy. It has real advantages to patents, becuase unlike a patent you don't have to reveal a trade secret to get legal protection for it---you just have to be diligent about keeping it a secret. On the other hand, if someone obtains information about a trade secret through legal means---usually as a result of negligence on the part of the company or its employees---then that protection is gone. Legal trade secret protection actually requires that a company such as Apple be reasonably diligent about plugging leaks.
many secrets :)
heh...
sad robot making broken music
IANAL but what exactly are "felony charges of misappropriating trade secrets" ? Who is pursuing the criminal complaint ?
"My understanding is that if Apple does not actively protect and police its trade secrets, then its innovative goods and ideas no longer receive protection as trade secrets"
Weeeeeeeeeeell, yeah, that's kind of the point. A trade secret is protected because it's, a secret. Once someone tells it then it's, ummmmmmm, not a secret anymore.
That's the only protection a trade secret has. There's no secret registry of secrets where you can secretly tell someone your secrets to keep them secret. That would kinda go against the "secret" part of trade secret.
Once a secret isn't secret anymore suing anyone is completely pointless in terms of protection of that secret, in fact, Slashdot story as case in point, suing kinda "spreads the news around."
You're confusing trade secrets with trade*marks*, which are the only IP a business is required by law to actively protect in order to maintain their IP.
KFG
A secret formula, method, or device that gives one an advantage over competitors.
So how would releasing specs on a site that is dedicated to "rumors" help the competition? The action is probably a violation of the employee's contract, but a list of specs is certainly not a trade secret.
Are gateway and dell (I'm guessing they would be considered Apple competitors) going to change their strategic plans because of a list of specs given on an Apple rumor site? Probably not, I doubt that really care about Apple as a competitor, besides using their designs.
So even if Apple does win this lawsuit, I really doubt this will send a message to other employees contemplating sending specs. This along with Apple's other attempts to vehemently defend their "Trade secrets" and "trademarks" will backfire as usual. Apple should learn to use the role of underdog to boost its "nice guy" image instead of pushing legal actions that even MS wouldn't stoop to. Instead of attempting to rely on the unveiling of secret products at trade shows. Maybe they should try a different strategy?
nt
even more surprisingly, "irregardless" is not a word, so it does not mean anything at all.
Hippies make me laugh. Socialist utopias don't exist. You either get fully goverment owned enterprise or publicly owned corporations. Ask anyone who lived in Soviet Russian how great goverment ownership was - you'll get an earful. Corporations are only as bad as the society that enable them. If you have a problem with corporations, you might want to focus your energies on the society in which they exist. Greedy, blood-sucking corporations arrise from a greedy, baby-eating society.
I for one love my desk job -- tending fields for 18 hours a day would just suck.
Wow.
Judging from the comments here, I must have been living in contractor heaven.
I've been working as a freelancer for the last 30 months or so, 18 of them for the same large bank, and the rest for two other smaller clients. At all of them, I was treated like "part of the family"--the only difference being that, when I started and was clueless and stupid I got a chewing out for playing games (!) after work, and I had to pay full price for canteen meals.
My colleagues and I always had very casual, professional relationships, and people consulted me for my opinions very often.
Some of the remarks people here have made are food for thought though; since I started, I have disciplined myself pretty heavily, but I am getting the impression that I wasn't really aware of how lucky I was, contracting for the people I did...
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
The real lesson here is that the tech world sholdn't hire consultants to do their important work. Contract work is all too often for people that should be employees.
"Or maybe the real message is, on a slow news day we have nothing better to post."
I read 2 or 3 days ago that AOL got a patent on instant messaging (despite Unix finger and talk being clear prior art), via ICQ, and it has yet to appear on Slashdot. There are certainly better things to talk about.
Don't you mean 'cooty rat semen'?
Arr! The laws of physics be a harsh mistress!
Thu10:31am
VRTS/PRSE
Veritas to Pay About $600 for Two Software Makers - Dow Jones Business News
"..Apple is all about innovation and cutting-edge products. Take that away, and all I see is a company making an OS, keyboards, and mice. "
Gee... but that IS all that I see! If it weren't for the education market Apple would have died a deserved death years ago. And these comments, as far as I am concerned, are tit for tat.... Ever attend an Apple Seminar??? The Microsoft / Intel bashing is non-stop. I finally figured it out, though.... They are absolutely intimidated... and extremely insecure. Gee.. too bad.
Not if you chase them with a
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
NDAs are nothing more than an illegal restriction on free speech, and it's noble that this person stood up for his rights.
workers accuse ... oh nevermind.
Question regarding your .sig: do you mind if Jews or Muslims or atheists are your friends?
Not trolling, not watering the dry grass with gasoline, but I just can't help but wonder what the /. response would be if this joker had done the exact same thing while working under contract for MS?
Is it fascism yet?
For my last co-op position I was asked to sign a NDA as usual. Only in this case they decided to give me the NDA two months into my four-month work term, and it was not retroactive. Oh, and aside from that little blunder, it did not have a date on it!
As in, nowhere to put a date. Just a sig, no date! I asked if it was written by a lawyer and they said it was, but I am very doubtful. IANAL but I would think that a NDA without a date on it would be worthless in court. I would like to see what they could pull in court if I simply released some info before I had signed the NDA, or after I had signed the non-dated NDA.
So let this serve as a note to companies out there, having a NDA doesn't mean shit if it's not written correctly by a competent lawyer!
The reason Santa is so jolly is that he knows where all the bad girls live.
Apple computers largely aren't built by employees, contract or otherwise, of Apple. Apples are assembled by people who work for a large temporary workforce agency (Volt).
Apple decided years ago to dump the overhead, both both legal and financial, associated with having a manufacturing labor force on their payroll. People who build Apples have a job and get paid only when Apple's inventory is down and they need to build some units.
How strongly attached would you feel to Apple if you got a call Monday morning at 6AM telling you to report to the factory - with no certainty that you'd have a job for the entire week. Or if that phone call doesn't come at all and you need money for rent.
Or, when at noon, they blow the whistle and say "that's it, everybody go home, and don't come back tomorrow". Remember, you don't get paid for hours you're not actually on the assembly line.
The pay for assembling Apples is about the same as for flipping cheeseburgers but without the security of knowing that you'll probably have a job next week.
This is "A Good Thing" for Apple because they don't have all that foolishness of hiring people for real jobs, paying them benefits, wondering what to do with them when production requirements slow, or taking accounting hits for layoffs.
The net of it is that Apples are to some large extent built by people who are willing to get along making a few bucks now and again, and who don't feel any loyalty to Apple or their products.
Is it any suprise that they leak information?
I would have to disagree with you on this one, Apple (unlike MS) never tried to pass darwin off as their own OS. When you were buying OSX you were buying Darwin + Apples Aqua interface and other 'things" they added (I say things because I dont know OSX at all).
NICE!!!
Props, Brother.
Time to burn a little karma in a futile struggle to bring a modicum intellectual honesty to /.
If Microsoft did this, /.ers would pillory them. Apple does it, and the response is, "well, don't leak trade secrets." Normally, /.ers think information wants to be free and that IP laws stifle innovation. What about the cries and shrieks for "patent reform" I constantly read? But in this case, since it's Apple, it's just fine for them to bring down the almighty wrath of the IP laws upon this guy. Knowing what those contractors make, this guy doesn't have a pot to piss in. Thanks to Apple's pure, unadulterated GREED, this guy will probably end up with a judgment that will follow him for the rest of his life. It will likely keep him from ever having a pot to piss in.
Macaholics, I have news for you. Apple is not pure as the driven snow by a longshot. Apple is no less a Huge Evil Mega-Corp than Microsoft and they behave just as badly, if not worse. This is the latest in the lengthy saga of Apple's trying to win in court what they can't win in the marketplace. For Macaholics with short memories, this is the same Apple that went all the way to the US Supreme Court to stop Microsoft from selling Windows, claiming patent infringement, after Apple stole the idea from Xerox! Such conduct is normally a mortal sin on /. But it's Apple, so it's okay. Hell, as recently as last year, Apple brought in 100 H1-Bs because of the "tight labor market."
Why does Apple use contractors like this guy? Same reason M$ does (and from Volt, the same company M$ uses) - no benefits and zero job security. Were Steve Jobs the great humanitarian you Macaholics make him out to be, he'd hire real employees and pay them a decent, livable wage with honest benefits. In return, Apple would get loyalty and hard work. But like any other "evil corporation," Apple could give a fuck about that. They're only interested in cheap and disposable, all to add a few more zeroes to the end of Steve Jobs' grossly inflated salary.
But, in the Macaholic religious fervor, it's okay.
You must never have seen the movie 'Sneakers', as the story's poster did.
Do some research or ask around before you decide to be an asshole next time. It was a joke, topical to a reference in the posted story.
Arr! The laws of physics be a harsh mistress!
no, that's EXACTLY as it's priNTdead on yahoo. i didn't leave off anything.
in real life, ALL the "players" are overvalued/phony stock markup FraUDs. ucann throw va lairy, & rh bob in there, if you think IT fits.
pr bots. pheWWW
Just for fun, my favorite anagram: "electrical engineering" to "rectilinear negligence".
How about: "Mother-in-law" > "Woman Hitler"?
it's great Sneakers "Setec Astronomy."
...one person in this group who is chronically underestimated is me.
I thought this was going to be a story about an employee who took too many lavatory breaks.
There's so much confusion going on that I'm not even going to try to sort it out. A couple of hints -
Trademark does indeed need to be defended in order to be help as such. That has nothing to do with IP or trade secrets (two different things).
Trade secrets are only enforced contractually. They have no special protection. A leak is a leak - if you leak a trade secret to me, you can be held in violation of any contract in place, but I can do whatever I want with the information. (If you don't believe me, google on "+RC4 +cypherpunks +RSA +anonymous")
IP means a large number of different things, with patents being a large centerpiece. This case has nothing to do with IP.
In short, defending contractual agreements has nothing to do with one's brand from a legal standpoint. Try not to get confused in the future.
-j, not a lawyer, etc.
I forget what 8 was for.
I think you've been trolled! Moderators, do your work!
Those lovedolls are indeed really fucking creepy... I gotta go wash my cerebral cortex out with soap now, brb.
;)
My best friend and I were watching Blue Sub #6 last year and he was like: "what the fuck is up with anime women!?" (regarding the fish girls)
I realized at that moment that the Japanese have been genetically engineering their females to retain perpetual 16-ish-ness for thousands of years through natural selection. That explains the cultural misogyny and prevalence of lolita fetishism over there......... And the market for creepy pre-teen love dolls - ick... Gross cultural memes/genes and whatnot hrrmph
But who the hell am I to complain? My G/F is 1/2 Japanese and 1/2 Colombian - and at 25 looks like an 18 year old
-Gropo
I kinda take offence to that, as I myself am a contrator. Maybe Apple need to treat their contractors better or hire better contrators.
(/local/home/curiosity)-#who -u|grep thecat|cut -c 44-49|xargs kill -9
This reminds me of 2 posts made a week ago in the Apple Hawks Madonna iPods thread: post 1 and follow-up.
/. to release this guy's information, as I suppose he has not posted from a cybercafé.
This Apple employee (posting as AC) started his post with "I'm posting this anonymously to protect my job. Not that they'll fire me or anything, but why risk it?"
I think, in theory, Apple could legally force
And you know they would be.
You do realize that this came out averywhere else in the news about a week ago, right?
Suing the guy isn't meant to protect that (former) secret; it's long since become public knowledge. Suing is how they protect the next secret, and the ones after that...
Ever hear of Enron? Executives sold millions in stock, while rank and file employees had frozen Enron shares in their 401(k). Blatant theft.
Oh, and I missed the "if Slashdot ever posts" part.
Try this.
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
Implying that you want someone to be in charge of telling you what you get to see and hear?
-random slashdotter's girlfriend
Loyalty and ethics are not the same thing. Think of all those Enron "stars" - loyal yes, ethical no. Flip side is the contractor who quits when he feels like it, but honors your secrets (I've worked with several). I'll take the latter any day.
sulli
RTFJ.
You're missing the point. You have to enforce and prosecute all leaks of trade secrets. You don't get to pick and choose. If you fail to prosecute just becausze "nobody was hurt this time" it opens a wide door for future defense lawyers to say "they never enforced it, therefore it holds no legal power as a contract." Regardless of what you or I or anyone else might think of this logic, that's how it'd go.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
semen rat cootys?
Getting busted for treason could be far worse - even if the charges end up being untrue - like that one nuclear chinese dude - him, his family, his private life all got dragged through the mud. Ultimately for nothing.
Bottom line - he signed a NDA and then violated it.
He deserves whatever he gets. "Information wants to be free" is crap - there is such a thing as personal responsibility.
If this guy was RMS's soul brother, and truly believed that "Information wants to be free" crap then he shouldn't have signed the contract in the first place.
Principles are only valid if you stick by them all the time, not just when they are convenient.
I know a guy who Apple used to contract. He was privy to all of their new stuff - he had a dual proc G4 sitting under his desk at work for over a month before they were announced. But no matter how i tried, i could NEVER get info out of him.
"Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway
But the 2 minute rule gets in the way of real back and forth discussion too often, and also makes it a pain to post corrections if you realize a mistake just after submitting.
A less restrictive, but equivalently troll-subduing rule would be to allow, say, only 4 posts per 8 minutes. You could post 'em all in the first minute if you want, but then you've got to wait out 7. Trolls would still only be able to get in 720 posts/day, but average users shouldn't ever notice the limit.
And now, thanks to the lameness filter, you get to see me rant! The lameness filter says to me "Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING." Now look you sanctimonious fucks, scrabble letters are in all caps. There's just no other way to do this.
Making me pad out the comment with this crap to get my stupid little comment posted will NOT dissuade me, it just makes me waste more time on it and go further off topic.
For those who think the whole thing was off topic: You obviously haven't seen the best hacker movie of all time. Go fuck yaself.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
..is wonderful how I can, IN PUBLIC, come and learn Apple's new trade secrets! Alas I did not undershtand von word he was talking about.
Oh and for the record, what does this incident have to do with COOTYS RAT SEMEN? I never was good with anagrams...
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Just for kicks, I chmodded IE back to 755, fired it up and went to the address to see what would happen... nothing.
... nothing... Just a blank white page with some gunk in the source which, I presume, was supposed to crash Explorer. It didn't.
I even logged into slashdot and clicked on it in the story to see if THAT would do the trick...
Oopsie. Nice try, but no cookie. Back to the drawing board for bconway, I guess. And IE is back to 000 for me.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
Does anyone here know the formula for Coke?
Does it even matter? You can duplicate Coke, but you can't call it Coca-Cola, and anybody who drinks the stuff will just think it tastes like coke.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
If Apple is so innovative, why can't they write thier own OS? Is it because the "innovations" are S-T-U-P-I-d?
pudge is pretty much the only /. editor with anything cool or smart to say anymore.
I hope this isn't considered a troll, or flamebait, but I have to disagree with you about your opinion of Microsoft's attitude towards ergonomics - at least with respect toward's Microsoft's hardware division.
IMHO, the Microsoft Natural Keyboard is, for people who are trained to type, the best keyboard presently available. On the other hand, Apple keyboards have always seemed to me to be exercises in style over substance. They sure look pretty, but as keyboards, they leave much to be desired. And let's not even talk about the original iMac "hockey-puck" mouse. Apple does a great job, most of the time, at creating a superior user experience, and their machines sure do look good, but I don't think serious typists should have to put up with what they call keyboards in Cupertino.
Take away my XP if you want, but I'll never let you have my keyboard.
144l. ph34r my 133t l3g4l 5k1lz!
You've got to be kidding! Score: 5 Informative???
Oooh, wait, my turn...
"Light saber" = weapon("Jedi Knight")
or how about...
"Shaken, not stirred" = drinkPreference("James Bond")
There ya go, blindingly obvious geek movie trivia, now hurry up and gimme some karma!
And you are complaining because... ?
If it is the "Score: 5" bit, I'll wholeheartedly agree with you. I feel that Slashdot moderators are far too eager to slap a "me-too" vote on already up-modded posts which leads to a glut of +5 posts, all supposedly the "Cream of the Crop".
If it was the "Informative" part, then let me just point out that not everybody has seen Sneakers and thus would have no idea what "Setec Astronomy" meant.
I have little doubt, though, that te "Informative" was your issue. My best guess is that the "Score: 5" did you in. Then again, your intent would be clearer if you had just said "Score: 5???" and gone from there.
I'm guessing the "Your Browser Is Retarded" post was deleted? Either that or I have NO idea what you guys are all referencing and I seriously missed a joke.
May God love the browser-abusers out there, though, 'cause I sure don't...
Industry standards are for idiots
Hmmmm
- USB
- IEEE-1394
- PCI
- AGP
- UNIX
- 802.11b
- OpenBoot
Yep, those are all sooooo Apple-proprietary.Yes, I've read about that one...
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
A Ecosystem Torn
Necessary Motto
Nectary Toe Moss
Not A Core System
An Erect Moss Toy
One Try Ass Comet
Tycoon Ass Meter
So Scram Teen Toy
Scam Teensy Root
Am On Cosy Street
Sony Scat Remote
Mac Rotten Yes So
Sears Cottony Me
Comatose Sentry
Easy Scent Motor
Stony Acme Store
And my personal favorite:
WAIT FOR IT.......
Taco Semen Story
The most important thing any republican needs to know.
"I do not leak. You leak... Remember?"
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
The whole legal area in this is muddy to say the least. I believe the main distinction is 'longevity'. A trade secret is something that you mean to keep secret forever.
- 2000-05c-all.html
Look at Scientology. They actually use trade secrets and copyright to protect their stuff. This information is designed to NEVER become public.
Apple's information, however, was designed to go public, just at a time of Apple's choosing. So, I think you'd consider it confidential information up to the point of release and not an actual legal trade secret.
There's some more on this here, but it didn't really clear up anything much in mind either: http://www.gigalaw.com/articles/2000-all/grossman
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
For instance, it worked in 1984 and Cube...
Oh, SNAP!!! Nevermind.
Moral of the story: unless you're planning on developing a "distopia" or a giant killing machine, employers have to rely trust. If that doesn't work, the next step is lawsuits.
-braxton
Inconceivable ttthhhhhwwww
The "nuclear chinese dude" was accused of espionage, not treason. And he accepted a bargained plea of guilt to a couple of huge infractions of the security agreement he signed at LANL. In a clear violation of that agreement and his oath, he made copies of highly classified documents and took them home with him.
But he just couldn't remember what he did with them after he got them home.
What the government didn't do was take it to trial in an attempt to prove that he had handed the documents over to the Chinese (the real Chinese, not those guys on Taiwan) on one of his LANL-sanctioned trips to the mainland (whoever game him permission to make such trips should also be fired). The government didn't take it to trial because a trial would have required them to make public the details of what he was supposed to have handed over.
The "nuclear chinese dude" deserved what he got (which was not much) and much more for the security violations that he didn't dispute. He was either a spy or an idiot. He chose to identify himself as an idiot.
... he's going to know what trouble really is! What? Ben who? Oh.... I'll just get my coat
Breaking confidences is a bad idea and a dangerous game, the confidences are there for a reason. If you don't feel that you can stand working for a place and keeping its confidences, quit. The only real legitimate use for breaking confidence is to expose corruption, but this isn't what that guy was doing.
So now Apple workers can't leave their desk to take a leak?? This is so fuc... oh... nevermind.
This might have been news three weeks ago when I first mentioned it here and here.
However this is *very* old hat today.
What really annoys *me* is that I mention this and got mod'ed *down* for it.
Polymorphism -- It's what you make of it.
Remember what happened to the last company that "pre-announced" something that was to debut at Macworld?
Let me refresh your memory. A couple of years ago, ATI came out with a spiffy new chip called the Rage 128. The CEO of ATI came out and did the whole PR presentation thing...and WHOOPS! He let out that the new card would be appearing in the new G4s at Macworld.
That pissed off Mr. Jobs and company. So much so that all the G4s we bought after that only came with Nvidia GeForce 2 MX cards...heh, heh.
The lesson learned today is: Don't steal Steve Job's thunder if you know what is good for you.
-ted
Back during Mac OS Classic times, Apple usedta put its developers names on the "About" dialog boxes in its programs. "About ClarisWorks" would get you a splash screen with a list of programmers that worked on the app. When Mac OS X came round, Apple instituted a policy of no developers' names on Apple's about boxen. No more developers' names, just an iMovie logo or what have you. They did this because they noticed that many of their programmers and designers, especially the ones appearing on said about boxen, were getting calls from "other" companies (yes, Microsoft was one of the top suitors). They were noting these peoples' names and hiring them away! So, no more names. My favorite vague credit is the "Designed by Apple in California" commonly seen on Apple hardware. They don't even give a town, they're so sneaky.
Wrists killing you? Not in 2 weeks. Learn Dvorak.
Imagine a beowulf cluster of those things!
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
He broke an NDA point blank,
How do you know he broke an NDA? whilst likely there is nothing in the article to confirm this.
it doesn't matter if it hurt sales or not
If they suffered any harm or damage is the fundamental issue.
Eat shit and die, you fucking miscreant. Do us all a favor and go back into retirement.
I've recieved this arguement multiple times. This is why OSX is so much cheaper than Winders TP.
Commercialism is the true spirit of Christmas that all religions can embrace.
That said, Jews just missed the memo and atheists are either morons or haven't looked into the evidence behind Christianity. Read "The Case for Christ" if you want an objective investigation of such things. No bs, I promise.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.