Then why open your mouth? For some of us, who respect Gnumeric as the most mature open source spreadsheet around with the best feature set and stability, this is great news to us....
They have a inherent revenue target to justify the overhead of taking on the project in the first place. You don't spend money to cut costs. You spend money to grow revenue. If cost cutting is your gig (which is shouldn't be for a company as young as Ximian, and I'm talking Business 101 here), then you simply don't assume the overhead of the project at all.
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my previous post. Ximian's business decisions are designed to grow revenues. The entire point of my previous post was to show just a few areas in which they will grow revenues.
Evolution and Mono are designed ot make sure Linux becomes an perpetually eighteen-months-out-of-date open clone of Windows. Red Carpet, by your own admission, is not designed to make money. So where is the business?? Before you answer, look up previous posts defending Eazel and you'll hear your same args.
Evolution and Mono are not designed to make Linux out of date. That doesn't make a bit of sense. There designed to offer something that currently isn't available on Open Source platforms (in that sense we happen to be behind date).
I never said Red Carpet wouldn't produce revenues. I said that everything Ximian is doing is to position itself as the leading Open Source desktop company. As the Linux desktop makes more and more sense (which it will by the way), Ximian will be in the perfect position to utilize Red Carpet and rest of its expertise to produce larger revenues.
I won't go into any more detail than I did in my previous post. At this point I'll just say this...watch and learn...:)
Sun and HP desktop markets? These are potentially even smaller than the x86 linux markets.
Yes, Sun and HP desktop markets. I would include "workstations" in this category. Sun and HP sell plenty of those. GNOME will be the desktop on those workstations in a year or so. If you are a UNIX developer chances are pretty good you've used an HP or Sun workstation with CDE as the environment. There are literally millions of such workstations being used at UNIX development shops, universities, etc. Ximian wants to see those displaced by GNOME desktops. When they are, suddenly they have their customer base jump an order of magnitude...
If all you are trying to do is save money on bandwidth, simply go out of business, your bandwidth costs will be zero.
An easily spoofable model means lost revenues. Are you trying to grow revenues or just cut costs? You're a startup. Grow like one.
This has to be one of the most ignorant statements I've seen in this thread, and that's saying something. It makes perfect sense for Ximian, a startup, to cut costs. It helps level the path to profitability. And you're implying that Red Carpet Express is the only avenue Ximian is pursuing to bring in any fundage. This is simply untrue.
Ximian is positioning itself to be the leader in the open source desktop market. Right now that might not mean much. They're betting on the future. Only time will tell whether that bet pays off or not. But their business decisions (Evolution, the Mono.NET platform, and Red Carpet) all have been strategically designed to further that goal and provide profitability when/if the Linux Desktop hits big time (particularly in the Corporate world). As Red Carpet becomes more popular, as it is all the time, more software vendors will want to partner with Ximian to provide their software on RC channels. The partnerships mean money. The subscribers of RC Express will get this software faster. All of this means more money.
Companies who have already invested in Exchange Server and other proprietary software, but who want to start using more Linux/UNIX desktops (as the Linux desktop becomes more popular) will be happy to pay for the Evolution Connector. The more companies begin to deploy GNOME desktops (particularly as HP and Sun move in that direction), the more you'll see Ximian being paid for partnerships (support, development, enhancements, branding, software delivery). Ximian will be positioned to provide all of that. It's a plan so crazy it just might work.:)
The service you are describing is exactly what Ximian offers. You don't get just one component on RC. You also get a channel for your distribution, with security and other updates. In addition there are already Red Carpet channels for things like Loki Game demos, Star Office, Codeweavers, etc.
they have discovered what they think are the ruins of a submerged city built thousands of years ago.
Are they implying that the city was submerged when it was actually populated? Or did they mean to say "submerged ruins of a city built thousands of years ago."
Yes, there are plenty of gui mail clients that keep it simple, etc. But if you want a fully integrated groupware suite, where are you going to turn? Evolution isn't just about attracting Windows users. It's about giving current Linux users something they've been wanting for a long time. An integrated suite that just works. Evolution is a pleasure to use. I agree with Taco, this is one of the most important open source projects out there. KMail, and other simple mail clients do not fill the needs of many users or the needs of many corporate environments. Evolution is making steps in the right direction.
Galeon is actually quite speedy. You can also run galeon as a server (-s, --server) which keeps it running all the time and reduces the time of initialization. If you just embed the mozilla embedable you don't get all the features users are used to getting from a web browser. Galeon has a very nice feature set. So you have a couple options. Either you reinvent the wheel in nautilus and rewrite all those features, you go without those features and just have a simple html viewer, or you use component technology to share resources. The last option makes the most since to me. If done properly, you won't take a serious performance hit. Even in its early stages I've observed the galeon web view to actually be faster starting up than the mozilla view. Go figure.
Couple of points regarding nautilus features. There are several terminal-view components for nautilus that you can choose from. Hopefully soon there will be a central nautilus web page where you can get all these components. Also work is being done now on a galeon nautilus view component--which will go a long way to improving the web browsing experience in nautilus, because we all know how much galeon rocks.
What do you mean by "KDE integration, for business clients"? What would that look like? Evolution will run fine under KDE, but Ximian doesn't just sell a groupware suite. They also are pushing Ximian GNOME to their business clients. That's sort of the point of their company, in addition to serving individual GNOME users.
I'm not familiar with exmh, but one thing I can suggest is that you consider trying both at once. I'm not sure what sort of mail setup you have, but you can probably send copies of your email somewhere else and use both for a while to see if you like Evolution. This is what I do with on my box. I use pine and Evolution. I retrieve my mail using fetchmail. Then my mail is processed by a procmail script which in addition to filtering out some spam, copies every mail I get to another spool for evolution to pick up. It's a great way to play around with both. Also I'm not ready to give up either client. I love using pine to check my mail when I'm not at home, and I mostly use Evolution when I'm at my desktop at home. At any rate, I highly recommend at least playing with Evolution. I personally love the vFolders as a way of searching for mail.
I am sure that KDE 3 and KDE 2 can be installed in parallel. That's what we're doing with the GNOME 2 release. In other words, you'll still be able to run you're GNOME 1.x applications...you just have to have the GNOME 1.x platform libraries on your system in addition to the GNOME 2.x libraries. Distributors such as Red Hat will take advantage of this, so your apps won't "break".
mIRC doesn't have anything on x-chat, which IMHO is hands-down the best graphical irc client available for any platform. But if you really like mIRC (I find certain things about it very annoying myself), run it under wine...last time I checked it ran perfectly...
I've used pine, mutt, and several others, yes. But mutt isn't a full workgroup/PIM suite. It's like comparing apples with oranges to compare mutt with Evolution.
Because Evolution is one of if not the premiere Workgroup and PIM free software solution. You can schedule appointments with other Evolution users or with any client supporting the iCalendar standard (Outlook/Exchange, Lotus Notes...). It offers the best integration I've seen amongst mail/PIM suites, and best of all it handles extremely large volumes of mail better than anything I've used. When you get 200+ emails a day, this is a lifesaver. Its Filter/vFolder capabilities are pretty powerful.
This is the way software works. You build applications on platforms. In this case, Evolution is built on on the GNOME platform which is made up of libraries. It's no different in Windows or any other platform. One of the things that causes you to feel that perhaps it is different, is that free software moves so fast...so in order to get the latest you need more software than just what your distribution shipped with. That's precisely why, by the way, Ximian is selling shrinked-wrapped versions of their software. You get it all on CD's with documentation and support. If you don't want to pay money for it, Red Carpet will happily resolve the dependancies for you. 99% of the problems people had with earlier version of Red Carpet have been resolved in recent builds. If Red Carpet is too slow for you, consider subscribing to Red Carpet Express when it's available.
Q: If we are a Windows based company with Unix users, can we use Ximian Evolution?
A: If your server uses standard open protocols like LDAP, IMAP, POP, and SMTP, you can use Evolution with it. You can share addresses with vCards and calendar items with iCal appointments. We do not, however, support proprietary protocols at this time. ...
This applies to Exchange. You can use it with exchange if you're using industry-standard open protocols.
Ximian just recently added support for Suse 7.x. I'm not sure what you mean about supporting more than Red Hat. Currently Ximian supports something like 18 different platforms. Mandrake 8 is also now supported. You can get it here.
Not sure what you're basing this on other than your own personal experience. I won't really touch your comments on speed since they don't contain any hard numbers or real data and I don't have any to counter with--I'll just say that both GNOME 1.4.1 and KDE 2.2 run equally fast on my outdated machine. As far as your comments about the "typical CDE user" I would really like to know what you're basing this on. What is a typical CDE user and why would he/she prefer KDE? I used to be a CDE user, fairly typical at that--both at Washington University and at Unigraphics Solutions. GNOME was most suited to my desires/tastes both as a user and programmer. As a user I found GNOME to be a beautiful interface, loved its extreme configurability, and found number/quality of GNOME applications to greatly exceed KDE's offerings. That was a couple years ago. Today I think KDE and GNOME each offer an outstanding desktop, solid development environments, and a great collection of applications. Each has its set of strengths and weaknesses--but I'm glad we have choices...I root for all Free Software, even if I do align myself with the GNOME Project.
One of the interesting things about Linux is that it often spreads via word of mouth: a friend tells another friend about it, or helps him/her install and use Linux. Often this leads to a small group of users who tend to use the same set of applications. There are "clusters" of GNOME and KDE users all over the place. For my part, the people I regularly communicate with in the Linux community use and develop on GNOME. Nothing wrong with advocating your favourite free software.:) And I root for all free software, even if it's not software I use.
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Then why open your mouth? For some of us, who respect Gnumeric as the most mature open source spreadsheet around with the best feature set and stability, this is great news to us....
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in my previous post. Ximian's business decisions are designed to grow revenues. The entire point of my previous post was to show just a few areas in which they will grow revenues.
Evolution and Mono are designed ot make sure Linux becomes an perpetually eighteen-months-out-of-date open clone of Windows. Red Carpet, by your own admission, is not designed to make money. So where is the business?? Before you answer, look up previous posts defending Eazel and you'll hear your same args.
Evolution and Mono are not designed to make Linux out of date. That doesn't make a bit of sense. There designed to offer something that currently isn't available on Open Source platforms (in that sense we happen to be behind date).
I never said Red Carpet wouldn't produce revenues. I said that everything Ximian is doing is to position itself as the leading Open Source desktop company. As the Linux desktop makes more and more sense (which it will by the way), Ximian will be in the perfect position to utilize Red Carpet and rest of its expertise to produce larger revenues.
I won't go into any more detail than I did in my previous post. At this point I'll just say this...watch and learn...:)
Sun and HP desktop markets? These are potentially even smaller than the x86 linux markets.
Yes, Sun and HP desktop markets. I would include "workstations" in this category. Sun and HP sell plenty of those. GNOME will be the desktop on those workstations in a year or so. If you are a UNIX developer chances are pretty good you've used an HP or Sun workstation with CDE as the environment. There are literally millions of such workstations being used at UNIX development shops, universities, etc. Ximian wants to see those displaced by GNOME desktops. When they are, suddenly they have their customer base jump an order of magnitude...
An easily spoofable model means lost revenues. Are you trying to grow revenues or just cut costs? You're a startup. Grow like one.
This has to be one of the most ignorant statements I've seen in this thread, and that's saying something. It makes perfect sense for Ximian, a startup, to cut costs. It helps level the path to profitability. And you're implying that Red Carpet Express is the only avenue Ximian is pursuing to bring in any fundage. This is simply untrue.
Ximian is positioning itself to be the leader in the open source desktop market. Right now that might not mean much. They're betting on the future. Only time will tell whether that bet pays off or not. But their business decisions (Evolution, the Mono .NET platform, and Red Carpet) all have been strategically designed to further that goal and provide profitability when/if the Linux Desktop hits big time (particularly in the Corporate world). As Red Carpet becomes more popular, as it is all the time, more software vendors will want to partner with Ximian to provide their software on RC channels. The partnerships mean money. The subscribers of RC Express will get this software faster. All of this means more money.
Companies who have already invested in Exchange Server and other proprietary software, but who want to start using more Linux/UNIX desktops (as the Linux desktop becomes more popular) will be happy to pay for the Evolution Connector. The more companies begin to deploy GNOME desktops (particularly as HP and Sun move in that direction), the more you'll see Ximian being paid for partnerships (support, development, enhancements, branding, software delivery). Ximian will be positioned to provide all of that. It's a plan so crazy it just might work. :)
The service you are describing is exactly what Ximian offers. You don't get just one component on RC. You also get a channel for your distribution, with security and other updates. In addition there are already Red Carpet channels for things like Loki Game demos, Star Office, Codeweavers, etc.
they have discovered what they think are the ruins of a submerged city built thousands of years ago.
Are they implying that the city was submerged when it was actually populated? Or did they mean to say "submerged ruins of a city built thousands of years ago."
Won't someone please think of the children?
Yes, there are plenty of gui mail clients that keep it simple, etc. But if you want a fully integrated groupware suite, where are you going to turn? Evolution isn't just about attracting Windows users. It's about giving current Linux users something they've been wanting for a long time. An integrated suite that just works. Evolution is a pleasure to use. I agree with Taco, this is one of the most important open source projects out there. KMail, and other simple mail clients do not fill the needs of many users or the needs of many corporate environments. Evolution is making steps in the right direction.
Galeon is actually quite speedy. You can also run galeon as a server (-s, --server) which keeps it running all the time and reduces the time of initialization. If you just embed the mozilla embedable you don't get all the features users are used to getting from a web browser. Galeon has a very nice feature set. So you have a couple options. Either you reinvent the wheel in nautilus and rewrite all those features, you go without those features and just have a simple html viewer, or you use component technology to share resources. The last option makes the most since to me. If done properly, you won't take a serious performance hit. Even in its early stages I've observed the galeon web view to actually be faster starting up than the mozilla view. Go figure.
Couple of points regarding nautilus features. There are several terminal-view components for nautilus that you can choose from. Hopefully soon there will be a central nautilus web page where you can get all these components. Also work is being done now on a galeon nautilus view component--which will go a long way to improving the web browsing experience in nautilus, because we all know how much galeon rocks.
What do you mean by "KDE integration, for business clients"? What would that look like? Evolution will run fine under KDE, but Ximian doesn't just sell a groupware suite. They also are pushing Ximian GNOME to their business clients. That's sort of the point of their company, in addition to serving individual GNOME users.
I'm not familiar with exmh, but one thing I can suggest is that you consider trying both at once. I'm not sure what sort of mail setup you have, but you can probably send copies of your email somewhere else and use both for a while to see if you like Evolution. This is what I do with on my box. I use pine and Evolution. I retrieve my mail using fetchmail. Then my mail is processed by a procmail script which in addition to filtering out some spam, copies every mail I get to another spool for evolution to pick up. It's a great way to play around with both. Also I'm not ready to give up either client. I love using pine to check my mail when I'm not at home, and I mostly use Evolution when I'm at my desktop at home. At any rate, I highly recommend at least playing with Evolution. I personally love the vFolders as a way of searching for mail.
I am sure that KDE 3 and KDE 2 can be installed in parallel. That's what we're doing with the GNOME 2 release. In other words, you'll still be able to run you're GNOME 1.x applications...you just have to have the GNOME 1.x platform libraries on your system in addition to the GNOME 2.x libraries. Distributors such as Red Hat will take advantage of this, so your apps won't "break".
mIRC doesn't have anything on x-chat, which IMHO is hands-down the best graphical irc client available for any platform. But if you really like mIRC (I find certain things about it very annoying myself), run it under wine...last time I checked it ran perfectly...
GNOME does include support for the mousewheel. Works "out of the box" on my system.
I've used pine, mutt, and several others, yes. But mutt isn't a full workgroup/PIM suite. It's like comparing apples with oranges to compare mutt with Evolution.
Of course you may not have a say in the matter. The issue is with feasibility--implementing proprietary, undocumented protocols is a bitch.
Because Evolution is one of if not the premiere Workgroup and PIM free software solution. You can schedule appointments with other Evolution users or with any client supporting the iCalendar standard (Outlook/Exchange, Lotus Notes...). It offers the best integration I've seen amongst mail/PIM suites, and best of all it handles extremely large volumes of mail better than anything I've used. When you get 200+ emails a day, this is a lifesaver. Its Filter/vFolder capabilities are pretty powerful.
This is the way software works. You build applications on platforms. In this case, Evolution is built on on the GNOME platform which is made up of libraries. It's no different in Windows or any other platform. One of the things that causes you to feel that perhaps it is different, is that free software moves so fast...so in order to get the latest you need more software than just what your distribution shipped with. That's precisely why, by the way, Ximian is selling shrinked-wrapped versions of their software. You get it all on CD's with documentation and support. If you don't want to pay money for it, Red Carpet will happily resolve the dependancies for you. 99% of the problems people had with earlier version of Red Carpet have been resolved in recent builds. If Red Carpet is too slow for you, consider subscribing to Red Carpet Express when it's available.
Q: If we are a Windows based company with Unix users, can we use Ximian Evolution?
A: If your server uses standard open protocols like LDAP, IMAP, POP, and SMTP, you can use Evolution with it. You can share addresses with vCards and calendar items with iCal appointments. We do not, however, support proprietary protocols at this time.
...
This applies to Exchange. You can use it with exchange if you're using industry-standard open protocols.
Ximian just recently added support for Suse 7.x. I'm not sure what you mean about supporting more than Red Hat. Currently Ximian supports something like 18 different platforms. Mandrake 8 is also now supported. You can get it here.
Cheers.
...it'll be able to drink in the U.S.!
One of the interesting things about Linux is that it often spreads via word of mouth: a friend tells another friend about it, or helps him/her install and use Linux. Often this leads to a small group of users who tend to use the same set of applications. There are "clusters" of GNOME and KDE users all over the place. For my part, the people I regularly communicate with in the Linux community use and develop on GNOME. Nothing wrong with advocating your favourite free software. :) And I root for all free software, even if it's not software I use.