Yes, that profelis page had a few examples, but I was answering the question "Why didn't anyone see this when they looked at spleens under microscopes before now?" If you're not looking specifically at WBCs, the nuclei probably aren't going to jump out at you from tissue sections. If you were running splenic blood through a blood analyzer that measured monocytes I guess that would jump out at you, but that's not what he/she asked.
The paper also asserts that these are undifferentiated monocytes, and the first figure talks about Ly-6C high and Ly-6C low monocytes. They have an example of a Ly-6C high cell and a Ly-6C low monocyte stained (is that H&E staining?). Both look to me indistinguishable. Again, I am not an immunologist, so Ly-6C high or low doesn't ring a bell, and I wouldn't know a monocyte nuclei from a neutrophil nuclei, but it sounds like they're getting better resolution of their cell population with the antibody and flow cytometry method. What the distinction is I don't know, I'd guess without doing the background reading that it might have something to do with differentiation states of monocytes, showing that these weren't monocytes that were turning into dendritic cells or macrophages in the spleen but were actual undifferentiated monocytes. Which sounds to me like something you wouldn't be able to tell by blood analyzer.
All the documentaries I've seen suggest it already happens and the problem is held at bay only by a small number of teenage ninjas and their fragile schoolgirl outfits.
I was about to say something like "ha ha, I made a link to the FACS section on that page" when I actually -read- the section on FACS and saw
While many immunologists use this term frequently for all types of sorting and non-sorting applications, it is not a generic term for flow cytometry
And indeed, the science article talks about flow cytometry, not FACS.
I also spotted another error I made, a bit more ridiculous though. I think I should have said the cells are "sprayed through a laser beam," not "sprayed through a laser."
I'm sure someone cut open a spleen before and looked at it through a microscope. Wouldn't you see an unusually high concentration of the monocytes?
For one thing, compared to what? As the article points out
Its such a vascularized organ, and the risk of big-time hemorrhaging is so great, that if the spleen ruptures, itâ(TM)s a surgical emergency,â said James N. George, a hematologist with the University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center.
It's full of blood, if you thought you noticed a high amount of monocytes, you'd probably think: they're blood cells and the spleen is full of blood cells. The finding is, as I understand it, that BLOOD from the spleen is higher in monocytes. You'd have to compare blood from the spleen to blood circulating in other organs.
The other issue is that monocytes would be hard to specifically identify, and probably impossible to count in tissue slices. This page has some examples of what monocytes look like when they're specifically stained (with hematoxylin and eosin I think), and what other blood cells look like. That's when they're stained just right and drawn out of an organ. If you're looking at slices of a spleen under a microscope, that's not going to jump out at you even if you were staining with H&E. The article used antibodies to specifically identify only monocytes. Antibodies recognize and can label specific proteins, they chose proteins that would be specific to monocytes. That's not something you do unless you're looking for monocytes specifically.
So you wouldn't notice monocytes unless you stained with antibodies specific to them, and even then, you wouldn't be able to compare them accurately in microscope sections.
FACS as I understand it (never done it myself, only heard about, and I'm not reading the real article too closely either) is where isolated cells one at a time are sprayed through a laser. If the cell has a fluroescent tag on it, that makes it deviate from the path it would take if it doesn't. You can collect cells that deviate and cells that don't, the machine counts them, and you can then compare the ratios (easier than counting in a microscope.) So they were able to use that to show it had a higher ratio.
Collecting blood from isolated tissues, prepping it with the antibodies for monocytes, prepping that for FACS and then actually doing FACS is not trivial, you're not going to be doing it unless you're specifically testing a hypothesis like the ones the authors had.
(disclaimer: I'm not an expert in spleens, immunology, or FACS and I didn't read either article in depth.)
It's about time that the earlier nazi/inquisition-style police-state presumptions are finally being burnt at the stake for making such dire assertions that there is such thing as a Vestigial Organ.
I see no reason to malign Nazis in particular as falsely thinking there were vestigal organs.
Imagine if the guy who invented pneumatic tyres was taken to court because it violated the bicycle company's right to sell him replacement solid rubber rims?
We would undoubtedly have continued to improve metal tires, eliminating this foolish dead end of "rubber" tires which are dangerous and prone to exploding! And for what? Making sure the rider isn't shaken like a can of paint going down the road? Traction? Making sure these pansy "asphalt" roads last longer than a week? Codswallop I say!
"A mythical deep packet inspection device that could block illegal P2P transfers with 100 percent accuracy would still be allowed." Sorry just had to snicker at that line, especially since nothing is 100%
I'd say that depends on who is doing the verification.
"We find that our own deep packet inspection method blocks only illegal P2P transfers 100% of the time we tested it (1 out of 1). Our techs put a Brittney Spears MP3 on a file sharing service, running the inspector from that very computer instantly verified that the filesharing was illegal, was shut down, and the computer was automatically set on fire, killing the techs running the test. We deeply regret their loss but their sacrifices were not in vain in the war on file stealing."
The goal is to make it impossible for the police to ever do their jobs... It's all about the fact that they hate the cops.
Citations needed. I'm a member of the ACLU, I didn't get the memo that we hate cops. I was under the impression that we appreciated law enforcement and laws, but that both need careful pruning to keep them from getting overgrown. But hey, you sound like you know better than I do, it probably ISN'T that you and I disagree over the best way to do so, it's that we hate them all. So much simpler than trying to figure out what's reasonable for law enforcement to do and what is overly intrusive.
Why is this modded "+4, Funny" instead of "-1, Untactfully Racist" ?
Because it's not -racist-, I'm not sure that "untactfully" is really a word or used correctly if it is, "untactfully racist" isn't an available moderation, the mods today aren't overly PC and humorless, but bottom line it's modded funny because IT IS FUNNY.
Exactly, it's the cost. If you got on a bike, wearing a clown outfit and held a huge wad of burning hundred dollar bills, the effect would be the same. If segways were only a few hundred dollars, it wouldn't look nearly as stupid.
Nothing to do with it looking like you're not working.
Not that someone riding a motorcycle is working any harder, adds Graham, but because he's sitting astride it, he appears to be making an effort
Right, because sitting looks so much harder than standing.
A better example would be if you saw someone riding one of those motor scooters designed for people with limited mobility, but then they parked it and walked away, with normal mobility. If you can picture that in your head, that's about as dignified as riding a segway looks to the rest of us.
That, and I bet the name rhyming with "gay" is too easy a target for some people.
And finally, the main reason: - replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices, but barely-covered bikini bottoms and tits.
I don't think that's quite it. I think at the music industry's peak sales, it was mostly to kids, or rather parents who bought the CDs their kids wanted. Same reason so many other industries sell mostly to the 14-18 age bracket, they generally don't know what's reasonable to spend on things like CDs (or ipods) and have nothing BUT disposable income, and time to entertain themselves with things like music. The music industry, being greedy and shortsighted, focused most of their efforts on that age group. Why search for and put up with talented musical acts if they're not your bread and butter anyway.
The graph and TFA don't break it down by age group, and neither of course does the music industry. They're all focused on total sales.
From TFA for example:
According to a March study by the NPD Group, a market research group for the entertainment industry, 13- to 17-year-olds âoeacquired 19 percent less music in 2008 than they did in 2007.â CD sales among these teenagers were down 26 percent and digital purchases were down 13 percent.
What about, say, age groups that have had time to develop musical taste? I'd guess (without seeing evidence one way or the other though) that the numbers of sales to older music consumers is flatter, yes they are less profitable, but I'd also expect the dropoff in sales in the past decade to be shallower, both because older groups -probably- spend less time looking for ways to get their favorite music without blowing their whole allowance, and because the more mature groups have been less okay with taking music without paying. Kids have always been willing to steal CDs after all (not to compare music sharing or streaming music with shoplifting.)
In other words, I think the crisis the music industry is facing is entirely because they put all their bets on an age group that was the most profitable but also was the one most likely to be lured away by other alteratives to paying.
It would be great if this whole thing made the music industry reform and stop trying to make the musical equivalent of meth and sell it to kids. It would also be great if the music industry announced they were no longer going to be idiots about suing. Not really sure which is more likely...
The graph is indeed pretty illustrative, but to suggest the CD is being killed off by streaming is misleading, because they don't graph the main competitor to the CD.
Seriously, if you don't like hip hop, pop, country or classic rock, there are -no- stations other than that anymore.
Don't forget christian radio stations. Driving through the flyover states, that's about all you'll pickup. Even if you have an FM adapter on your MP3 player, you'll have to reset it every 20 minutes because there are so many goddamn christian radio stations.
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Yes, that profelis page had a few examples, but I was answering the question "Why didn't anyone see this when they looked at spleens under microscopes before now?" If you're not looking specifically at WBCs, the nuclei probably aren't going to jump out at you from tissue sections. If you were running splenic blood through a blood analyzer that measured monocytes I guess that would jump out at you, but that's not what he/she asked.
The paper also asserts that these are undifferentiated monocytes, and the first figure talks about Ly-6C high and Ly-6C low monocytes. They have an example of a Ly-6C high cell and a Ly-6C low monocyte stained (is that H&E staining?). Both look to me indistinguishable. Again, I am not an immunologist, so Ly-6C high or low doesn't ring a bell, and I wouldn't know a monocyte nuclei from a neutrophil nuclei, but it sounds like they're getting better resolution of their cell population with the antibody and flow cytometry method. What the distinction is I don't know, I'd guess without doing the background reading that it might have something to do with differentiation states of monocytes, showing that these weren't monocytes that were turning into dendritic cells or macrophages in the spleen but were actual undifferentiated monocytes. Which sounds to me like something you wouldn't be able to tell by blood analyzer.
All the documentaries I've seen suggest it already happens and the problem is held at bay only by a small number of teenage ninjas and their fragile schoolgirl outfits.
I was about to say something like "ha ha, I made a link to the FACS section on that page" when I actually -read- the section on FACS and saw
While many immunologists use this term frequently for all types of sorting and non-sorting applications, it is not a generic term for flow cytometry
And indeed, the science article talks about flow cytometry, not FACS.
I also spotted another error I made, a bit more ridiculous though. I think I should have said the cells are "sprayed through a laser beam," not "sprayed through a laser."
I'm sure someone cut open a spleen before and looked at it through a microscope. Wouldn't you see an unusually high concentration of the monocytes?
For one thing, compared to what? As the article points out
Its such a vascularized organ, and the risk of big-time hemorrhaging is so great, that if the spleen ruptures, itâ(TM)s a surgical emergency,â said James N. George, a hematologist with the University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center.
It's full of blood, if you thought you noticed a high amount of monocytes, you'd probably think: they're blood cells and the spleen is full of blood cells. The finding is, as I understand it, that BLOOD from the spleen is higher in monocytes. You'd have to compare blood from the spleen to blood circulating in other organs.
The other issue is that monocytes would be hard to specifically identify, and probably impossible to count in tissue slices. This page has some examples of what monocytes look like when they're specifically stained (with hematoxylin and eosin I think), and what other blood cells look like. That's when they're stained just right and drawn out of an organ. If you're looking at slices of a spleen under a microscope, that's not going to jump out at you even if you were staining with H&E. The article used antibodies to specifically identify only monocytes. Antibodies recognize and can label specific proteins, they chose proteins that would be specific to monocytes. That's not something you do unless you're looking for monocytes specifically.
So you wouldn't notice monocytes unless you stained with antibodies specific to them, and even then, you wouldn't be able to compare them accurately in microscope sections.
In the real article, the authors seem to have used fluorescence-activated cell sorting (FACS) on spleen isolated blood to compare to circulating blood from other organs.
FACS as I understand it (never done it myself, only heard about, and I'm not reading the real article too closely either) is where isolated cells one at a time are sprayed through a laser. If the cell has a fluroescent tag on it, that makes it deviate from the path it would take if it doesn't. You can collect cells that deviate and cells that don't, the machine counts them, and you can then compare the ratios (easier than counting in a microscope.) So they were able to use that to show it had a higher ratio.
Collecting blood from isolated tissues, prepping it with the antibodies for monocytes, prepping that for FACS and then actually doing FACS is not trivial, you're not going to be doing it unless you're specifically testing a hypothesis like the ones the authors had.
(disclaimer: I'm not an expert in spleens, immunology, or FACS and I didn't read either article in depth.)
It's about time that the earlier nazi/inquisition-style police-state presumptions are finally being burnt at the stake for making such dire assertions that there is such thing as a Vestigial Organ.
I see no reason to malign Nazis in particular as falsely thinking there were vestigal organs.
Yeah, I was going to say, why bother adding the feature to test for for meth or heroin? It's not like IDENTIFYING users is really the hard part.
Imagine if the guy who invented pneumatic tyres was taken to court because it violated the bicycle company's right to sell him replacement solid rubber rims?
We would undoubtedly have continued to improve metal tires, eliminating this foolish dead end of "rubber" tires which are dangerous and prone to exploding! And for what? Making sure the rider isn't shaken like a can of paint going down the road? Traction? Making sure these pansy "asphalt" roads last longer than a week? Codswallop I say!
Super Testosterone Massacre III
Is that a game or a product that they're advertising in wipeout HD?!? EITHER WAY I NEED IT!!!
Way to ruin the funny with your so called "english comprehension."
Anyway, it is still pretty funny that they "revoked" his "license" instead of laughing it off or pointing out that the real failure was his.
"A mythical deep packet inspection device that could block illegal P2P transfers with 100 percent accuracy would still be allowed." Sorry just had to snicker at that line, especially since nothing is 100%
I'd say that depends on who is doing the verification.
"We find that our own deep packet inspection method blocks only illegal P2P transfers 100% of the time we tested it (1 out of 1). Our techs put a Brittney Spears MP3 on a file sharing service, running the inspector from that very computer instantly verified that the filesharing was illegal, was shut down, and the computer was automatically set on fire, killing the techs running the test. We deeply regret their loss but their sacrifices were not in vain in the war on file stealing."
The goal is to make it impossible for the police to ever do their jobs... It's all about the fact that they hate the cops.
Citations needed. I'm a member of the ACLU, I didn't get the memo that we hate cops. I was under the impression that we appreciated law enforcement and laws, but that both need careful pruning to keep them from getting overgrown. But hey, you sound like you know better than I do, it probably ISN'T that you and I disagree over the best way to do so, it's that we hate them all. So much simpler than trying to figure out what's reasonable for law enforcement to do and what is overly intrusive.
It's not racist, it's just -completely- off topic.
Why is this modded "+4, Funny" instead of "-1, Untactfully Racist" ?
Because it's not -racist-, I'm not sure that "untactfully" is really a word or used correctly if it is, "untactfully racist" isn't an available moderation, the mods today aren't overly PC and humorless, but bottom line it's modded funny because IT IS FUNNY.
Maybe the transmission happened when somebody ate the gorilla (or prepared the raw meat)? This seems more likely than interspecies sex.
The two aren't really mutually exclusive. Trust me.
I always think it's funny how people think of minidisc as a failure.
It dodn't sell particularly well in North America or Europe. But you probably aren't aware of how fabulously successful it was in Japan/Korea.
I am actually aware of that, having lived in japan for a few months. But it obviously isn't a real factor in the downturn of CD sales.
Or maybe the inventors were just too conficked about the ethics of it all.
I myself feel a little conficked about using that particular pun. Or maybe the extreme nausea I'm feeling is from this hot pocket...
I forget, how many virgins does one get for an exploding iPod?
All of the Jonas Brothers.
Exactly, it's the cost. If you got on a bike, wearing a clown outfit and held a huge wad of burning hundred dollar bills, the effect would be the same. If segways were only a few hundred dollars, it wouldn't look nearly as stupid.
Nothing to do with it looking like you're not working.
Not that someone riding a motorcycle is working any harder, adds Graham, but because he's sitting astride it, he appears to be making an effort
Right, because sitting looks so much harder than standing.
A better example would be if you saw someone riding one of those motor scooters designed for people with limited mobility, but then they parked it and walked away, with normal mobility. If you can picture that in your head, that's about as dignified as riding a segway looks to the rest of us.
That, and I bet the name rhyming with "gay" is too easy a target for some people.
By your logic, "r u going 2 da store" is properly formed English.
I said "more people" not "more high schoolers texting each other."
And finally, the main reason: - replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices, but barely-covered bikini bottoms and tits.
I don't think that's quite it. I think at the music industry's peak sales, it was mostly to kids, or rather parents who bought the CDs their kids wanted. Same reason so many other industries sell mostly to the 14-18 age bracket, they generally don't know what's reasonable to spend on things like CDs (or ipods) and have nothing BUT disposable income, and time to entertain themselves with things like music. The music industry, being greedy and shortsighted, focused most of their efforts on that age group. Why search for and put up with talented musical acts if they're not your bread and butter anyway.
The graph and TFA don't break it down by age group, and neither of course does the music industry. They're all focused on total sales.
From TFA for example:
According to a March study by the NPD Group, a market research group for the entertainment industry, 13- to 17-year-olds âoeacquired 19 percent less music in 2008 than they did in 2007.â CD sales among these teenagers were down 26 percent and digital purchases were down 13 percent.
What about, say, age groups that have had time to develop musical taste? I'd guess (without seeing evidence one way or the other though) that the numbers of sales to older music consumers is flatter, yes they are less profitable, but I'd also expect the dropoff in sales in the past decade to be shallower, both because older groups -probably- spend less time looking for ways to get their favorite music without blowing their whole allowance, and because the more mature groups have been less okay with taking music without paying. Kids have always been willing to steal CDs after all (not to compare music sharing or streaming music with shoplifting.)
In other words, I think the crisis the music industry is facing is entirely because they put all their bets on an age group that was the most profitable but also was the one most likely to be lured away by other alteratives to paying.
It would be great if this whole thing made the music industry reform and stop trying to make the musical equivalent of meth and sell it to kids. It would also be great if the music industry announced they were no longer going to be idiots about suing. Not really sure which is more likely...
The graph is indeed pretty illustrative, but to suggest the CD is being killed off by streaming is misleading, because they don't graph the main competitor to the CD.
That's right, the minidisc.
Seriously, if you don't like hip hop, pop, country or classic rock, there are -no- stations other than that anymore.
Don't forget christian radio stations. Driving through the flyover states, that's about all you'll pickup. Even if you have an FM adapter on your MP3 player, you'll have to reset it every 20 minutes because there are so many goddamn christian radio stations.
Since more people say "PIN number" and "ATM machine" than people who care that it's redundant, I'd argue those terms are now correct.
We dropped atomic bombs on Japan and now we are their strongest ally.
Yeah, but then they turn around and give us Dragonball Z: it's clear their intentions are to culturally destroy the world as punishment.
My own meritorious advancement to E-5 was a result of having both balls and brains. (lest anyone asks, I never had brawn - just plenty of balls)
And your modesty probably didn't hurt ;-)