Slashdot Mirror
A Hypothesis On Segway Hate
theodp writes "Admit it, IT is ingenious. Also, IT is surprisingly effective for certain uses, including real cops and mall cops. And if you tried IT, you probably smiled to yourself. So why all the Segway hate? Paul Graham looks into The Trouble with the Segway and offers a hypothesis about what prompts people to shout abuse at Segway riders: 'You look smug. You don't seem to be working hard enough.' Not that someone riding a motorcycle is working any harder, adds Graham, but because he's sitting astride it, he appears to be making an effort. When you're riding a Segway you're just standing there. Make a version that doesn't look so easy for the rider — perhaps resembling skateboards or bicycles — and Segway just might capture more of the market they hoped to reach."
We just don't see the need for a personal transport device that costs too much for people who are perfectly capable of either walking or biking.
but the Magicians Alliance would never allow it.
I record my sleeptalking
The technology is pretty sweet, but really. If you can stand, you should be walking. If you can stand but can't walk, then okay. But how much of the population fits that profile?
It makes me think of the humans in Wall-E.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
They should attach a speaker that makes the sound of the Jetson's car as it moves around:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdWswvLPdE0
I'll be it would make everyone smile who is being passed by.
standing is a lot more fatiguing than walking actually...
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
For those of us who has never heard of Segway before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segway
I don't get why people would do that to themselves, I'd rather walk around with nothing but underwear and a trashbin over my head. But anyway.
There are few situations where a bicycle wouldn't be a better, cheaper, and more efficient option. The segway is cool, but it's a solution looking for a problem. It's over engineered, too expensive, and in the vast majority of situations offers no benefit over the alternatives.
If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
No. I think most people resent Segway owners because they can _afford_ a multi-thousand dollar replacement that the rest of us poor suckers have to earn using the old left-foot->right-foot technique.
If Segway's had a reasonable cost that resentment would go away really quick.
In Las Vegas fat or lazy people can rent sit-n-go scooters to cart them around the casino because walking would be too much effort. And at that point, you're doing less work than someone standing and only slightly more work than someone sitting in a chair. It's popular because it's cheap, and people have absolutely no shame in using them if they're just lazy.
And interesting theory that there are deep psychological issues but way off the mark. They just cost too much. If they were $500 everyone would have one.
Obviously, author has never ridden a motorcycle - he has absolutely no idea, what it takes to ride such thing. On motorcycle, you have a throttle, first brake, rear brake, 6 gears and clutch. To ride it, you have to (ok, don't have to but would be good) understand counter-steering. And on IT? lean yourself and twist the stick. That's all. Pfffff.
What does this have to do with information technology?
No problem, ask, and it shall be given. / teh troll moderator.
"Too lazy to come up with a relevant answer, ya fucking homo." (before you mod this down rtfa.)
The hype was just mind boggling and there is no way Segway wil ever come close to match all the promises that were made.
The Segway "FAIL" is just another example of the dangers of overhyping a product before it gets to the market.
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
and sometimes cyclists and even bikers... I have the same problem with all of them: I usually walk because I'm in no rush and i want to (daydream) think deeply about life, the universe, and everything. These guys rush by on MY walkway, stirring me out of my reverie at least, sometimes forcing me to jump out of the way.
They are to walkways what SUVs are to streets.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
I don't hate it. I just don't see the point. It seems to try to fill a convenience gap somewhere between walking on one end and bicycles or scooters on the other. At least for me there's simply no gap there to fill.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Want some respect? Stop calling it "IT". That's a big part of the hate. The thing was WAY over-hyped as the "next big thing in transportation, going to revolutionize how we live".
And then police departments bought them en-mass when any old scooter would serve the purpose just as well for 1/3rd the cost.
Over-hyped, over-priced, and yes, it does make people seem lazy/pretentious.
The main reason I see that people dislike Segways is that on crowded streets, operators of Segways try to use the fact they are on a motorized vehicle and at a taller vantage point in order to force people out of their way. Its similar to being on a bike and bumping a pedestrian with the front tire so they see something bigger than themselves, which prompts an instant reflex of getting out of the way.
This is the exact same reason mounted police are excellent at crowd control, people tend to move out of the way for objects noticably taller than they are.
People shout abuse for that, too.
The Segway is a wheelchair for people who's only disability is extreme laziness. No wonder Americans are so goddamn fat.
My objection to the Segway is that we already HAVE a two wheeled, gyroscopicly balanced transport device: It is called a bicycle. Works much better, and is better for you. In the event that the distances you are covering are too far for that, but you still want an efficient two wheeled transport, there's scooters and motorcycles. Even smallish ones can usually reach highway speeds.
I just don't see the point in the Segway, especially given the price. It can't go that fast, it can't go that far, so it isn't a replacement for a motorized transport. While it technically might be a replacement for a bike... Why? What's wrong with a bike?
Also the whole package seems kinda... well... stupid. Why all the effort to balance the thing on two, side by side wheels. Why not do as Maddox noted and add a third wheel (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=segway_more_complicated_than_it_needs_to_be)? To me it seems like a tech demo, more than a useful thought in transportation.
Finally there is the point that a lot of Segway owners are, like the author of this, smug dickheads. They have this attitude of "Oh this thing is so amazing, and I feel so sorry for all you plebs who are uninitiated in to the glory of Segway." My response is "I feel sorry that you spent ten times what I did on my bike for something that goes half the speed."
You can't use a motorized vehicle on the sidewalk in most places.
You're out of your mind if you drive one in the street.
So where exactly are you supposed to ride them?
Indoors in a crowded place it's just an accident waiting to happen.
As a practical matter they are just toys for the few who can afford them.
Do yourself a favor and try it yourself. I have yet to encounter a single person who didn't admit that a Segway is fun to ride. I don't own one, because I can't afford it, but if I could, I would. (I use my bicycle most of the time, so I'm not a particularly lazy person.)
Maybe if they could make ones for regular or goofy footed people.
Actually, to make it look harder, shorten the platform width so it makes you look like you're hanging ten all the time. Or maybe sell the segway with the balance mechanism disabled so you actually need some kind of talent to ride one.
How hard would it be to ride 2 segways simultaneously? one foot on each one, careful throttle negotiation.
Task Mangler
My dislike of the Segway stems from the ridiculous hype that was spread far and wide about the product before it actually came out. It was built up to be some fantastic device that would cure the common cold, end world hunger, prove the existence of life on Mars, get me the woman of my dreams, and just about anything else one could imagine. Then when it came out, it was nothing but a fancy-ass moped for rich people who were too lazy to walk.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I guess I'm just afraid of the inevitable obese people using it much like the other 'personal transportation devices' that already exist. You just have to yell at the top of your lungs, "Hey! Why don't you get off that thing and move your fat fucking ass?!"
The segway had a bucket load of hype before it was announced. In my view, it's never lived up to that hype. :)
It's over-priced and unnecessary. I thought it looked at home in the Weird Al "White and Nerdy" clip
AC
First of all, at the speeds it goes it only replaces bicycles. BUT.. you have to be standing, so it's not good for your knees. Also, because you are static (your legs are not moving, the kne3es aren't flexing), this is worse than walking, considering knee health.
At the same time, it has to be recharged, which a bicycle does not. And finally, it occupies a much broader length than a bicycle. It is also quite a bit heavier. These two facts (need for broader space on the sidewalk, and heavier) makes it more dangerous for other people on the sidewalk.
Basically, I see only cons and no pro to this device.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
I'd rather walk thank you.
No disrespect to those people who genuinely *need* one.
In the UK, the segway is only legal on private land. You are not allowed to use a motorized vehicle on the pavement, but the segway hasn't met the requirements to drive on the road, namely the safety standards (Source) In other words, it is totally useless.
If you want to get around a major city a folding bike is far better. You can take it on any means of transport and then ride when you get close to your destination. I guarentee that a folding bike and the tube will allow you to get round London far faster than a segway.
I see a lot of comments stating how these are only for rich people, etc. I 've seen price tags in the $5000 - $10,000 range. How is this limited to rich people only? People pay prices like that for all sorts of items that are not considered necessities - TVs, computers, stereo systems, bicycles, motorcycles (when they already own a car), insert hobby of choice, etc. The list could go on.
I personally would not buy one, although I can afford one and I am definitely not rich by any stretch of the imagination. I think it's fine to hate them for whatever reason, but to hate them because only "rich" people use them so they can act smug and look down on other people is just plain silly in my opinion.
At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
For less than half the price!
http://tlb.org/scooter.html
You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
because the majority of "Segway is great stories" I saw were government fatties using it because they were "entitled" to one because of a disability, that being fat and lazy. When I saw the price and then saw the various government groups buying it I got the distinct impression that Segway = Hoveround 2.
The stories of Atlanta cops with them and postal workers showed only fat people. I don't mean a spare tire around the waste, I mean the Michelin man would be proud.
Throw in the all so egotistical hype surrounding it and the big let down when it appeared. Sorry, non-enclosed vehicles are useless for the majority of people; I have a motorcycle and I understand that while great fun and good for commuting it has serious limitations no enclosed vehicle has.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Except we're on Slashdot, not on some inner city single black moms site. (No offense to those, just using them as an example of someone who actually has financial problems.) We have plenty of people here who were arguing against taxing incomes over 250k a year because it would personally affect them.
Trust me, there are plenty of us who could afford a Segway without problems. Not to brag, but I could buy one out of my day-to-day account at the moment, no need to even withdraw from the savings account or cancel any investments.
There also are a lot of us around who are into new gizmos and gadgets just because they're new gizmos and gadgets.
When the combination of the two tells you that they see no point in a Segway, then maybe, just maybe, and I know it might sound crazy, they just don't see the point of a Segway.
What for? It doesn't really go any faster than I can walk, it doesn't even go everywhere where I can walk, it's nowhere as maneuverable on a crowded sidewalk as walking (wake me up when it can just sidestep to get out of the way of someone running), it's extra effort to haul it to where it can be recharged after each trip (it can't go up or down stairs), it takes up space in your trunk if you want to drive anywhere and still use it there (it's not like you can just commute on it), etc. And most importantly, standing for long periods of time is actually less comfortable than walking.
Plus, you need _some_ movement or you'll get thrombosis sooner or later, and/or end up looking like a beached whale. So the few calories you save by just standing on it, it's calories you'll have to exercise to shed later. You haven't actually saved any effort, you just did the opposite of smart time management. Instead of profiting from that short walk to the groceries store to also get some minimal exercise out of it, you've just created the case for allocating more time for it later. It's a net loss.
Yes, but it's sit-n-go. At least it's more comfortable than walking, if you're tired or lazy, whereas standing isn't. Do you understand that point? It doesn't even have that saving grace.
Or maybe the only ones with deep psychological problems are the twits who need to project them on everyone who isn't awed by their conspicuous consumption.
In fact, I suspect that if segways did cost only 500, they'd actually lose sales, because then those twits would need something else to say, "look at what I can afford."
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
For some simpler vehicle, check out the Elektor Wheelie:
http://www.elektor.com/projects/elektorwheelie-demo-video.986893.lynkx
http://preview.tinyurl.com/elektorwheelie
http://preview.tinyurl.com/wheeliefaq
Do you also have a "Hypothesis On Segway Indifference"?
This is not the sig you're looking for.
I think another part of Segway hatred is the fact that by standing on it, you place yourself higher than pedestrians, the other sidewalk straight-up traffic participants. This may be a small psychological gesture telling them: You are beneath me. The motorcycle does not have this problem, also because it's not allowed on the sidewalk. A solution could be to treat the Segway as a bicycle.
The police use them extensively in the downtown area where I live. I actually saw one pull over a car once. But, apart from being terribly expensive, one of my friends bought one. He'd ride it to work when the weather wasn't horrid, as well as around town on the weekends. He had a blast with it for about four months, until he hit that patch of mislaid pavers....
Double compound fracture. Ow. Thousands of dollars in medical bills, even after insurance. My curiosity completely evaporated. Much like my desire to buy a motorcycle dies every few months when I see one that's wiped out on the interstate.
They are completely humongous, and for all the space that they take up, provide absolutely no benefit. I'd rather have electric roller skates.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
As Steve jobs told them during the initial phases, if you don't market it to people, people won't buy into it. Segway was launched and marketed as a geek toy, and the poplulation treated it as a geek toy.
First it was portrayed as a geek toy, and now.... it IS a geek toy.
If coca cola has been marketed as wonderdruk that turned you gay, it wouldn't even be a distant memory in the creators today, it would have died right. The seqway creators commited the basic mistake marketing, they put their product in the corner to be ignored, thinking that their enthusiasm alone would make it sell itself. Had they listned to their surroundings during the beggining, it could have been done right from the beggining, the current market image of a geeky toy is hard to shake, just as hard as making everyone who bikes to work to stop using "normal" bikes, and start using recumbent bikes instead.
Segways seem dangerous to me. If the complicated computer control fails, or is overcome by the wheels hitting a low barrier, the rider hits the ground face first.
If a bicycle hits a low barrier, it has a chance of riding over it, because the front wheel is so big.
The Segway I rode had a label with a strong warning about danger.
For a product to be successful it has to solve a big problem for someone, big enough to justify a price the consumer will pay. What problem has the Segway solved better or cheaper? Bikes and scooters solve the short distance mini transport problem quite well, cheaply, and durably.
The only other problem is more difficult - how to make it a fashion item with celebrity status. Like a high end purse or car or brand of coffee. Unleash a fleet of product designers at it to spiff it up with leather, chrome, and a strong V-8 rumble, place it in a few cool movies, get a few hot celebrities to take them to movie premiers "because look at how green they are", and soon a Segway will be an in thing.
Because they were designed for use among pedestrians. When you are on foot you do not want these things anywhere near you. They are obnoxious and dangerous to a pedestrian.
They do not belong on the sidewalk and you would be an idiot to use them on the road. For them to ever become popular, cities would need a redesign.
They cannot be easily moved up or down stairs, they are not acceptable on an elevator unless it is a freight elevator, they are difficult to get in or out of a car, they cannot be brought on public transportation.
Recently my company rented Segway ride as entertainment for the team. We drove through parks at lakeside of Chicago downtown. People who saw us reacted very positively. Some would take photo of us and with us. I may add that the experience was somewhat philosophical: Segway enabled me to move without realizing how I control it, as if I was controlling it by pure will. A highly recommended novel experience!
I don't know why they let cops who can't seem to run faster than 12.5 mph out on the streets at all.
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
The more bold your claims, the bigger your amount of hype, the better a product you'd actually deliver. If you quietly roll out a product with little fanfare, well then if it is just ok, it'll probably just be ok. There's not likely to be any backlash or ill will, people didn't expect anything from it. They'll just kinda take it for what it is and buy it if they want it.
However, if you go promising the world, and in particular if you stir up a tizzy of speculation and media frenzy, don't be surprised if there is some major backlash when you don't deliver the heavens. People will get pissed when you get their expectations up and then smash them.
Well, with all the hype on Segway, the thing should have been just fucking amazing. I mean there were comments like "Well have to redesign the way we build cities!" Man, that had better be some bad ass form of personal transport like a jetpack or something. What? It is just some lame ass electric scooter? It is a $6000 lame ass electric scooter? Well screw you then, I am NOT impressed!
Well, that's what they said, isn't it? "These will change the way cities are designed"
I didn't notice too many people translating this properly to: "these are broken."
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
...But the type of person who would spend that much money on avoiding a short walk.
As I recall, the technology was originally designed for a self-balancing wheelchair with just two wheels that could be driven up steps. A good idea.
But as it turned out, the technology was more profitable being sold as a gimmick to overpaid couch-potatoes.
Shouldn't the article read "An Hypothesis..."?
The Segway is just a glorified, motorised wheelchair that's been marketed at people that aren't disabled. The answer is obvious why most people don't like it.
You don't have to hate someone to ridicule them, and Segway riders are certainly worthy of ridicule. The thing was hyped up beyond belief, and now that they are out there they are one of the most useless pieces of crap I have ever seen. The stupid thing costs AT LEAST 10 times more than a really nice bicycle, and can go about half the speed. For some reason, Segways get to be on the sidewalk and interfere with slower pedestrians, but bicycles do not. The Segway is big and heavy, and needs to be recharged, which a bicycle does not. This is not to mention that Americans are fat and lazy enough as it is -- do we really need to be giving people more of an excuse to not walk and ride bikes? If you were to see a young guy driving around a motorized wheel chair, simply because he did not want to walk, the ONLY appropriate response would be "Wow, what a douche". The Segway is expensive, impractical, and unnecessary tech. If you own one, you are an idiot at best, a self-aggrandized douche bag idiot at worst. None of this is to say that I hate the Segway, but it is definitely ridiculous.
To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
Apart from being insanely expensive you can't ride it legally in most places,
And why would you want to? For most people, 'it' is inferior in every way to a bicycle.
Costs more, slower, less reliable, and gives you no exercise.
OK, so maybe it is hot and 100% humidity where you live, you are fit and ideal weight, so the exercise is not a bonus. How does 'Ginger' beat a folding electric bike?
This is geeky-cool tech no doubt, and I'd love to try one. But it has zero practical value, which could not clash more with all the hype that this gadget arrived with.
I got mown down by one of these in Vienna last year. The American who was riding the thing and certainly not looking where he was going gave me a real mouthful of abuse.
My crime?
Trying to take a photograph using a tripod and I was in the Pedestrianised shopping area. He even threatened to come back and wrap the tripod around my neck for getting in his way.
Thankfully, he was so angry at me he collided with a lamp post. Quite a few locals applauded his misfortune.
AFAIC, they are a complete menace.
There are few situations where a bicycle wouldn't be a better, cheaper, and more efficient option. The segway is cool, but it's a solution looking for a problem. It's over engineered, too expensive, and in the vast majority of situations offers no benefit over the alternatives.
You could say exactly the same about almost any gadget, from telephones to lemon-squeezers. I don't have a Segway, but I do have a bike. It's fancier and more expensive than I actually need, but it's a cool toy which is fun to use. And that was enough to justify buying it.
I read the posts and the article, and I can't believe no one else understands the "hate." People on Segways look like idiots. You're perched up high with a dorky bicycle helmet where everyone can see you. You look sort of like Rick Moranis in Spaceballs.
I had NEVER thought about Segways much until a recent trip to Vienna. Sure, I'd seen that photo of the Chinese riot cops on Segways or Sameways or whatever, and my reaction was, hmm, that makes sense. But in Vienna people were renting Segways to tool around the city. You could see them in the distance, tall dorky mushroomy touristy goobuses. Maybe it was the backdrop of florid Art Deco/Historicist architecture or the way everyone was nicely dressed.
Appearances alone. That's enough to inspire the so-called "hate." It's clear that the article's author doesn't get anything about style when he compares the Segway to a motorcyle. Let me set this straight: Marlon Brando on motorcyle, cool; Wozniak on a Segway, not cool. The problem is nerds have a messed-up idea of cool, or at least one not shared by the population at large. Aesthetics matters. I'm not saying this is perfect or right; it just is. And the general population has some dumb aesthetics. But appearances still matter.
When I think Segway, first I think of the annoying guy on the Arrested Development TV show, which itself is annoying. And then I think of these photos from the Beijing olympics.
It just doesn't look natural. Time and again scientists, engineers or artists design a more efficient process or item and yet it never penetrates beyond a small group of fanatics. The segway just looks awkward. For comparison consider the Pontiac Aztec (generally considered to be the ugliest car of the last 25 years) It could be practical, have tons of space, and it is still ugly. Same reason we are not all living in geodesic (sp?) domes.
Function over form rarely works and without a sudden artistic shift to the accepted (think Sideburns or bellbottoms) I doubt IT will ever win a wider audience.
You got modded down. Plenty of Slashdot hate there.
Not that someone riding a motorcycle is working any harder, adds Graham, but because he's sitting astride it, he appears to be making an effort.
Also, the guy on the motorcycle isn't riding it on the bloody sidewalk, taking up as much of the sidewalk as two or three people abreast.
imagine something that worked like the Segway, but that you rode with one foot in front of the other, like a skateboard. That wouldn't seem nearly as uncool.
Try riding a skateboard on a busy sidewalk, some time, and see how far that "cool" takes you. I remember when I was at Berkeley and getting around on my skateboard I had to watch for campus cops whenever I got on university grounds... because they were banned.
And skateboards don't take up as much space, and you can stop and pick them up when you have to go up stairs.
I live near the Segway rental place in Chicago, and I worry more about Segway drivers than vehicle drivers for my personal pedestrian safety. I have to tell my kid when we're in the park to especially watch out for the Segway Mafia, the band of roving idiots driving these things around for the first time. The hate's not all about Segway riders being smug.
God damn puritan work ethic strikes again.
Technoli
The reason people hate it so much is the government's insistence on getting these damn things for cops and TSA officials.
These people could WALK and save the government hundreds of millions of dollars nation-wide.
I'm so liberal i'd be considered the extreme left of the canadian NDP, and democrats are just republican 2.0 for me, but if I saw this on a budget bill for the TSA i'd hold that bill up until ti was stricken!
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
I'm probably going to get posted a troll for this, but I'm putting it out there anyway. The only people that I know that have Segways near the small town in Michigan where I live also happen to be Mac owners/Apple Fanboys. I've talked, more so joked with co-workers in IT, and they all agree, there always seems to be an aura of smug around Mac users that when they come to us for help they come to us with an attitude of superiority, talk down to us when asking for help, and act like they are doing us a favor by giving us the opportunity to work on their system. Now I can't say that every Segway owner is also a Mac user and acts this way, I'm only speaking from my own experience, and maybe the two products just happen to appeal to the same smug people.
I didn't realize there was any hate out there. Frankly, I didn't realize there were any Segways out there. I saw the big unveiling and thought "That's it?" I haven't really heard a whole lot since then... Certainly haven't encountered one in my day-to-day life...
But I can speculate on why people might object. Why folks might laugh or toss insults. Why they might not be selling well.
1) The thing is expensive. I don't recall the actual price tag, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I remember thinking that I could buy a car for that. Maybe not a shiny, new car... But a decent used car. I could certainly purchase a more conventional form of transportation like a bicycle, or motorcycle, or scooter. Which means that folks are paying extra for a Segway, basically, because they can.
2) It is also completely impractical. From the summary:
Also, IT is surprisingly effective for certain uses, including real cops and mall cops.
No it isn't. As soon as a cop (mall or otherwise) has to chase someone up a flight of stairs it has just lost all utility. And I'd suggest that a cop on a bicycle would be better able to catch someone than a cop on a Segway.
3) It is aimed at folks who don't need it. You have to be able to stand upright to operate the thing, which means you've got two working legs. Why not use them to walk? It isn't going to go crazy-fast... It doesn't have a huge range... You aren't going to use the thing to communte 60 miles to work... You'll basically be operating it, more or less, within walking distance. So why not just walk?
So... We've got an expensive, useless thing that you don't need. And people are surprised that sales are limited? Or that folks toss insults when they see someone riding one?
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
Maybe on a golf course, a Segway would have a value. Instead of driving a little car to the next hole
you could stand on a segway and carry your club's. It is a thought, of course just walking is better.
Imagine watching someone ride a Segway on a hot day after downing a sixpack, trying to hold a set of golfclubs
The entertainment vaule alone is worth it.
Maybe it's because it's just ridiculously stupid? I mean, what's the average speed of these things? 4MPH? How incredibly lazy do you have to be to ride something that's as fast as your feet?
A great number of people were incredibly disappointed by the thing. The marketing hype around that thing was insane. Everyone had to know what it was. It was new, it was amazing, CEOs were ranting and raving how awesome it was. It was super simple to assemble. Entire cities would be built around it! It would change human history. These were just a few of the claims leading up to its unveiling. Then...drum roll...they unveil a fucking scooter. Not only was it a fucking scooter, it was an incredibly expensive scooter that they continued to try and hype as the best thing ever. Then, we have clowns like the author here trying to determine "why people don't like the segway more". I propose it is because it was a huge disappointment, it wasn't all that impressive, and quite frankly most people don't have any use for one. Trying to use a big ass scooter like that in a crowded place...and then putting everyone else on scooters? People on foot would cause less congestion and could maneuver to their destination much more efficiently.
Then we have that iconic moment when George W Bush fell over the front end of the scooter that can't fall over...
Seriously...the ONLY viable use for these things that I have seen (sorry mallcops...you can walk your fat asses around) is bomb squads. When you put a guy in that huge suit, especially in any weather other than a snowstorm it is going to suck like hell to move around. So...they stuff them in the bomb suit, put em on the segway, and then they can scoot up to much closer proximity without having to work themselves to exhaustion just walking to the site.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
If you're in a group of 5 to 30 people, and one asshole shows up in a ridiculous rolling platform, expecting everyone to give him special consideration just because he decided he wanted to be a huge lumbering largely immobile pain in the ass, people are going to get the impression that segways are huge lumbering largely immobile pains in the ass
It was the "It will change the way cities are built" that pretty much did it. They didn't come CLOSE to delivering on that. Tons of hype, hugely oversold, and really, it's only good for a few specialized uses. Great for those, but so what?
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
the segway is the evolutionary intermediary between getting in your 1 mpg suv to go to the end of the driveway to get your mail, and those ridiculous walmart shopper hovercraft from wall-e
technology is wonderful thing when it is used to enable mankind to do things that weren't possible before
technology is a disgusting pathetic thing when it is used to enable mankind to do less and become gelatinous balls of jelly
it really is some joke how fat americans are. it marks us as aristocracy worthy of overthrow
segway hate is a healthy, hopeful instinct
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I'll admit, it is interesting how a slight change in design can elicit a different response, but after all is said and done, it is probably impossible to separate the dorkiness of the original Segway design from the convenience and comfort it was intended to provide. Think about it -- the very people that would willing be willing to sacrifice a modicum of that convenience and, say, put one foot in front of the other, would probably be just as likely to opt for something a little more old-fashioned and less susceptible to sneers (e.g. a skateboard, one of those annoying scooters, etc.)
I say scrap it and get back to the drawing board.
That's it. Not that hard is it. It looks stupid - if I were on it I would look even more stupid than I already do. Never in a million years - take your junk and recycle it.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Standing there for a long time with my feet together would be terribly uncomfortable and moving without walking would be terrible for the muscles in my legs, back, and shoulders. It would be almost as bad as....software development!
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
This is funny timing... just yesterday I told a group of segway wielding people touring the US Capitol building that they looked like toolbags. And their only response was a set of very smug smiles.
I really don't see the point of the segway.
If I have to short distances I walk
If I have to go medium distances I bike
If I have to go longer distances I drive a car, etc.
I don't have to think about parking the thing when I am walking and only to a very limited extent when I bike.
The bike is a pretty efficient way to get around and so much cheaper than a Segway. I don't know the Segway's top-speed, but the bike doesn't have to be charged and doesn't pollute.
It just doesn't fill any need for me... The fact that look like I an idiot when you are riding one is just unimportant. You cannot sell anything on looks alone anyway.
Who really wants to look like Baron von Harkonen floating about the town?
Well, maybe they do, but still. It isn't the marketing, it is quite frankly the reality. If anybody thinks like me, they probably consider it yet another sign of how lazy and obese we as a society have become. I mean, we can't even bother to walk down a sidewalk now? Give me a break!
But you can cut the wheelchair crowd some slack--they probably can't walk! If you are driving a segway, your legs have to function otherwise you couldn't stand on the damn thing. ...Although I wonder if you could rig it so it is drivable when you have a broken leg and have a cast + crutches.
The author of this piece missed a key point: scooters are normally ridden in the street; segways are normally ridden on the sidewalk. If people rode scooters on the sidewalk, scooters would be hated too.
People who chose to walk already have a tough enough time from cars while crossing busy streets. We don't want to deal with motorized vehicles on our sidewalks, nor should we have to.
UK "pavement" = US "sidewalk"
True, you have a point. I for one am for anything which lets people compete in the Darwin Awards. Strap some incendiary chinese batteries and a stick of TNT on it, and it'll have my support. I still wouldn't buy one, but anyone who does would have all my heartfelt encouragement to continue using it ;)
Well, to get back on topic, though, I think there is one thing which would go a longer way to end the derision: get the users to jolly well stop trying to tell everyone else that, (A) they're so cool because of that toy, we just don't want to admit it, and (B) that it's somehow about money envy after all, i.e., that it really works as conspicuous consumption, and (C) that we all have some deep psychological problems if we're not awed by their toy.
Seriously, I don't even see the thing as about the Segway itself. Sure, most of us think it's a useless toy, but we're nerds, we understand buying useless high-tech toys. Way I see it, the derision is really about the users. There's no shortage of trying simply too hard to convince the rest of us that we really somehow envy them for that toy. And that creates the same derision any other fanboys get.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
... and both were as wheelchair replacements. One individual was Vietnam vet and was missing his lower legs. He used a platform that was attached halfway up the shaft of the segway and balanced forwards and backwards on that. The other person had muscular dystrophy. He was unable to walk without arm braces. Hate on the segway all you want, but they are a great technological solution to some problems.
... at least here in Switzerland, where you have to wait months to get one:
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=de&js=y&u=http://www.flyer.ch/&sl=de&tl=en
Somehow, the terms "hypothesis" and "scooter", used in the same sentence seems a bit presumptuous. A scooter is a toy. Even motorcycles are basically toys. (At least in the states) Don't get me wrong, I love motorcycles. But, scooters are a step downward in maturity, dignity, and/or machismo. While, the term "hypothesis" implies at least two of those qualities.
If we are going to hypothesize, let's talk about motorcycles, alright?
There are already motorcycles on the road which get 80+ mpg. These bikes (Honda 250cc) are reasonably powerful, for most people's needs. They are moderately comfortable. Of course, bigger bikes are more powerful, and more comfortable, especially for larger people. But, the average individual will find that a 250 has more than enough power to glide down the highway, as well as zipping through congested city streets. All of that, reasonably comfortably.
So, why aren't more people relying on motorcycles for their morning commute?
Well, my hypothesis is, most people can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time, so they are rightfully concerned that they can't stay upright on the damned things.
A visual just flashed through my mind: Los Angeles, in early morning fog. The news helicopter is sending video from I-10 (not "the ten", you fucking idiot Californians, it's Interstate 10) showing 25,000 motorcycles involved in a chain reaction pileup.
Hmmmm. Not a bad idea. Darwin's work is never done.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
In Washington, DC, they are supposed to be illegal in the major tourist areas, but the local government just ignores this since some businesses now have "Segway tours". Why do I hate Segways? The people on them, oblivious to pedestrians, actually push pededstrians out of the way and sometimes run into them. I don't think that "smug" captures it.
Riding a Segway makes you about a foot taller than you really are so people think you're looking down on them. People don't like to be looked down upon. Especially when the rider was previously shorter than most people. "How dare this a$$hat elevate his social standing by the application of money and technology? We must ridicule him!"
Maybe ya'll forgot but the Segway was trotted out as "the next big thing" right when the Dot-Con bubble burst.
Seastead this.
I have been lucky enough to operate a Segway twice in my life. The first time, afterward for about a half hour, I was all, "I have to get me one of these." It was an amazing experience. Then my pragmatism reasserted itself and I thought, "but where, why, and when would I use it?" And so I still bike to work and am Segway free.
http://sirrealcomix.mrainey.com/page/o/cvr_OatWillie01-1.htm
photosMy Photostream
No, it's not an effect of the hate, its an effect of the fact that you're not generally allowed to drive motorized vehicles on the sidewalk, and driving something whose top speed is 12 mph in the street isn't safe.
Nothing that a couple of rockets can't fix.
If you tried riding a bike with fixed handlebars you would fall over just as fast as if you were stopped, which wouldn't happen if gyroscopic effects were dominant.
I'm not sure that's entirely true. You're right about the minimal gyroscopic effect, but turning the handlebars is not the only type of steering input that works.
I've seen a motorcycle ridden with locked steering - and to make a motorcycle swerve you push the handlebars left or right without actually turning them. It works because steering a two-wheeled vehicle uses the effect of riding on the off-center part of the tire tread (it's also why motorcycle and even bike tires have a round profile. It's a little hard to explain, but you can simulate it on your desk by rolling a coin - when the coin begins to fall over, it turns in the direction of the lean.
Putting moderation advice in your
Personally I think it's because it just looks silly / "gay".
What a dumb comment.
Perhaps you can put it a Red Sox sticker, or another "hetero" emblem?
"This is the same reason why people don't like Lisp hackers." Thus, it becomes a real Paul Graham article.
Game... blouses.
I see lots of posts saying that the reason people don't like the Segway is because they're "like wheelchairs for people too lazy to walk."
So what does that make cars, then?
www.eissq.com/BandP.html Ball and Plate System. Amuse your friends. Crush your enemies.
The guy with a Mac sitting at Starbucks blogging about his new car. The dude at the bar with a bluetooth headset in his ear while he's not even on the phone. They guy tooling down the street with a Segway to get to the Apple store for the new iPhone. They all fit into the category of 'look at me, I'm important, please take notice of this so I can feel better about myself.'
The kid with the netbook directly jacking into the school server to change his grades. The Navy Seal with the headset and mic relaying position information. They dude on the skateboard doing an ollie over some trash while trying to get to work on time. They're all doing something functional, and look pretty damn cool doing it.
Shouldn't he be comparing a Segway to a car, rather than motorcycle, if you'll even make such a lame comparison?
If anything, it is the car where you sit in one position and place, and the extent of your work is pressing one of two levers. On a bike, you're doing something with both your feet (gear lever and rear brake) and multiple tasks with each hand, while changing your body position for turns and road hazards.
And comparing it to any motorized vehicle that travels at 50mph is plain dumb as you can't commute to work 10 miles away on a Segway, travel on public roads, or go on a 200 mile day trip. It's supposed to replace walking, and that's what people might take issue with: that a Segway rider finds walking too arduous.
Why do Segways provoke this reaction? The reason you look like a dork riding a Segway is that you look smug. You don't seem to be working hard enough.
No, you are an idiot. Segway riders don't look smug, nobody actually cares about the expression on their face.
Have you actually looked at these people? Segway riders look like dorks because of the helmet. Slowly gliding around the mall with that safety gear poping above the crowd. They really look stupid. If the SHT riders actually need safety gear, they shouldn't be riding them through malls with the pedestrian traffic. If they don't need it, then they shouldn't be wearing it.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
People appear at a distance to be gliding hell spawn. People look freakin' creepy. When has any gliding person ever done anything good what examples do we have say from cinema? Gliding happy moms with candy...??? No in every movie a gliding thing is some sort of creature that wants to rip your face off.
You look smug. You don't seem to be working hard enough.' Not that someone riding a motorcycle is working any harder, adds Graham, but because he's sitting astride it, he appears to be making an effort.
Plus who would you rather catch you looking at them in contempt, the reedy, glasses-wearing, cappucino-swilling suburbanite riding the segway, or the leather-clad, tattooed, 6'5" biker on the harley.
You only say that because you don't want to share the road with slower moving traffic.
Yes, I've just accused you of being part of the problem. Now start being part of the solution.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
The amount of venom and redundant arguments really proves the authors point. They aren't for lazy people because the point was never to use them for a trip to the corner the intent was for multiple mile trips that would have been taken in a car. They use less energy and take up less space than a car. Be honest with yourselves, when is the last time you walked five miles to the store rather than drive? Oh you did it once? Not every time? The other argument is they are too expensive. "Hey if they gave them away for $500 I'd have one." Gee and if they sold Ferrari's for 5 grand everyone would own one of those too. Also the over hype argument is pointless. The inventor didn't over hype it. He refused to say what it was which caused a media frenzy and the media over hyped it. A few wild statements by people that saw one fed the frenzy. People were all but expecting an antigravity device so of coarse it was going to be a disappointment. If I had seen it I would have been blown away at the time so I can't blame the people for over stating it's value. The cities overreacted as well passing laws banning them before they even went on sale. It's a rare time in history where hype largely killed a product instead of the other way around. I think the redesign cities comment wasn't as rediculous as it sounds. If the technology had existed when most cities were being built and it was afordable I think cities would look very different. If you designed a city today to take advantage of Segways there would be a lot of advantages. Everyone says just ride bikes but just how many people will actually ride one? Also try riding five miles up hill in the heat to get to work. Hard to start the work day soaking in sweat and tired.
The technology is doomed to niche status due to a combination of factors like car obsession and price. Funny that I never hear as much venom about SUVs? I personally get more upset about SUVs hauling single passengers. It'd take a 1/10 the energy to haul that person on a Segway and I wouldn't be worried about being crushed by one in my small car.
Yes, the hype played big time into it. We were all expecting some new power generating sterling engine or something equally cool. In the end we got an SUPER expensive scooter.
So I would put forth a theory that it is a combination of disappointment from the hype + sour grapes because it is so expensive + you look like a complete tool riding it.
where people aren't all hateful little computer nerd hermits, I enjoy riding my segway and having positive interactions with all the people in my community I come across. Except for the teenagers who yell from mommy's car, trying to impress their friends.
The seg is legal on the sidewalk where I live (a state called California, it isn't small) they cover 20 miles at a cost of ~$.01 per mile, and go fast enough to take me a mile every 5 minutes.
And I only paid 1500 dollars for my segway.
I'm reminded of personal watercraft. Lot's of these same "arguments" against segways could apply to wave runners. Why not just swim? Those things will make you lazy. Those aren't as fast or will they go as far as a ski boat. You can't even carry lunch in them. etc etc etc.
I'll 'fess up. Before I rode one, I thought, yeah, they're dorky. (Though, secretly, I was also slightly envious.) Then I rode one... and they're still dorky -- but w-a-y more fun than I'd thought it would be.
Enough that I am, indeed, planning on buying one.
If you tried riding a bike with fixed handlebars you would fall over just as fast as if you were stopped, which wouldn't happen if gyroscopic effects were dominant.
How would you explain taking your hands off the handlebars?
It works because steering a two-wheeled vehicle uses the effect of riding on the off-center part of the tire tread
It's called counter-steering. Here's a video of a bike with welded handlebars, and it's unable to turn just by leaning. You have to push the handle bars to move the front contact patch out from under the CG (or so one of the many theories go).
Keith Code's No BS Bike
If there's anyone who knows all about looking smug, it's Paul Graham.
Unlike motorcycles, Segway riders/drivers/wtf? don't go tooling through crowds, nearly crushing toes. Motorcycle riders with bad etiquette have plenty of haters too (especially white trash who spent too much for a defective exhaust on their Harley's).
So I don't think this is some perception of work thing, but rather a combination of the poor etiquette I often see, combined with the round peg square hole issue of having a motorized vehicle on the sidewalk where even unpowered bike riders are unwelcome. The fact that most of the riders are either members of the popo, or look like pricks who drive beamers doesn't help either.
Exactly, Attila Dimedici, my Good Citizen!
First, it was developed by Kamen, who routinely sounds like a complete idiot! Secondly, there are too many airheads piloting them (has anyone besides me been run into by one of these airheads?). Thirdly, as you so wisely pointed out, the mega-hype by that idiot Kamen.....
12 mi/h = 20 km/h = approximately my cycling speed. So why am I allowed on the road? I'm clearly a danger to myself and everyone else... If speed were the only issue, they could simply have said "keep to the cycling tracks where possible and highways are off-limits" just like they did for bikes.
This would actually be easy to test, just build bicycle with an extra set of spinning wheels that don't touch the ground. With those you could get a gyroscope effect but without having to move forward. Other experimental tweaks include adjusting the handle-bar axis so it is straight vertical instead of the usual back-tilt it has. There are probably even more variables in the design of a bicycle that I am not aware of that could be experimented with.
1. technology that enables mankind to do things that weren't possible before
2. technology that enables mankind to do less and become gelatinous balls of jelly
the car is #1, the segway is #2
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
because he's sitting astride it, he appears to be making an effort. When you're riding a Segway you're just standing there.
Funny, last time I checked, most people considered sitting to be less work than standing.
Segways are generally thought of as being something that rich lazy people use to avoid walking distances that most people do without any problem... and are utterly linked to the nerdiest of nerds.
Motorcycles are viewed as real, long-distance vehicles... and have been linked to the cool people for a very long time.
The segway replaces normal walking--since the speeds are pretty much the same.
bicycles and motorcycles don't replace walking, you get 'there' faster. Same with cars, planes, trains.
And there's a inverse relationship to size of the mobility device and the time you get to a destination. (Bigger == faster). The segway breaks this rule and is also slow, and expensive from what customers expect.
That's why no one buys it. The smug aspect is why no one likes it.
it makes u fat and lazy, just get a bicycle for 1/10th the price... get some exercise!
Every time GOB used it, he was epitomizing the Bleuth family's "values"... rich... foolish.. and hilarious.
The Segway is ridiculous. It isn't because of the way you stand on it, it's because you only get a tiny gain out of such an expensive device that otherwise cripples you from doing "normal" things. It's the same reason those super springy jump shoes that let you walk twice as fast doesn't catch on... it's disruptive, you look silly and you're really not gaining that much.
Tell me one thing the Segway is good at that Roller skates, or roller blades aren't better at ( other than going up hill, you lazy bastard )
Now compare the cost of those features vs the $50 rollerblades.
is more people like this doofus to make it look hard.
But, I wanted socialized health insurance!
The Segway has 2 major problems: 1) It costs over $5000 for a personal transportation device that should cost no more than $500. There is a balance sensor available for the LEGO Mindstorm that transforms it into a Segway model; how complicated could the Segway actually be? 2) It was based on the assumption that all municipalities would rush to make them legal for sidewalk use. Quite the opposite has happened; most placed have banned them.
Dean Kamen doesn't design consumer devices; he designs medical devices. My theory is that he really wanted to design a 2-wheel electric wheelchair, but would never have gotten the funding for it. However, there was plenty of investment money available for consumer devices for which 95% of the development cost could also be used for the wheelchair. There you have it -- the Segway is a throwaway product, a device designed to trick investors into subsidizing the development of a 2-wheel wheelchair.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
It is a tech demo of sorts. The Segway was released as a way to bring the cost of manufacturing down on the tech, not as a end in and of itself.
Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
There are electric scooters with in-line wheels that are much lighter, have similar ranges and speeds, and can be had for $500 (like the Go Motorboard). The Segway's gyro technology is expensive and unnecessary.
Talking as somebody who's been using a Segway for the past couple of years almost on a daily basis, I think that the original article is completely off-base and simply the result of a prejudiced jalous. Everybody I encounter is either amused or interested and if they want to ask a question, I'm always willing to answer as truthfully as I can.
I tried using a bicycle, rollerblades, walking and running. For my ~3 miles commute it didn't cut it because I would barely get to point where my body is warm before I have to stop and then you have the shower situation (my company has just one available in the building and it's less than adequate to stay polite).
So I turned to the Segway and I love it. As was suggested over and over in the discussions above, the only gripe I have with it and IMHO the only limiting factor is its price, and the fact that a lot of cities didn't get it and had a knee-jerk reaction by simply forbidding them.
First I dislike the notion that our fellow citizens are so ignorant that they are reactive over such things as a person looking smug. Anyone so locked in to socialization that they are angered by someone else's composure needs what I call a post birth abortion.
As to why I don't own a Segway, they are expensive. I also have no idea if they will take our monsoon like rains that hit Florida while the sun is still shining. Get the price well under 1K and make sure the thing is rugged enough to last for a decade or two and you can bet I'll own it!
All the slowness of a bicycle without any of those nasty health benefits, plus it burns electricity. Move slow, stay fat, and waste environmental resources... America! FUCK YEAH!!
i think a lot of the hate has to do with the Segway being so expensive, for doing so "little"..
it's more about a perceived elitist attitude of having enough money and not having to walk like all the peons..
if it was priced at less than 1000/each, and had Segway Dealers in WalMart, i think it would have a better chance than to be redesigned into appearing that the rider is producing more effort in its use..
if it was more affordable, i'd get one..
i hate microsoft.
Damn protestant work ethic. On one hand it's great for capitalism. On the other hand you get cake mixes where you have to add eggs, because simply adding water isn't enough work.
I hate the Segway because my feet don't fit on it.
And yes, the a-hole who uses the handicapped ramp to drive his toy on and off the train isn't improving my view of owners.
I think the only Segway that I've ever seen out in the real world is at one of my customers - a neurology practice. One of their patients uses a Segway to get around; I know nothing about her condition except that she sees a neurologist and presumably doesn't have balance/stability issues that cause problems with it.
fencepost
just a little off
"... you look smug. You don't seem to be working hard enough."
Probably not the first time PG has contemplated the reasons for this particular type of hate, since he parlayed a halfway-decent idea at the right time into a Massive Pulpit for Pontificating on Every Goddamn Thing in the Universe.
Sounds a lot like the uno
http://www.the-uno-tomorrows-transportation.com/
Congratulations Segway manufacturers: You've found a way to promote new levels of laziness and remove even the small amount of exercise that most fatties are still obliged to take, which is to walk around malls.
Between the US car culture and the Segway, I expect an American Segway user will be the first example of a new species officially defined as post-homo sapiens, that will have legs that have devolved into completely useless vestigial appendages and the fattest ass you've ever seen.
When people can exercise complete control over it with a wireless Borg-style headset (remember when the Star Trek captain was captured by the Borg and how sinister he looked?) you'll see a big shift in attitude. It will go from hate to revulsion/shock/fascination and the religious crowd will start complaining about unholy man-maching melds driving more nerds and techies to want one.
I agree that the segway is perhaps a solution looking for a problem but maybe the tech itself is still very valuable. The first exposure most people have to a self-balancing two wheel system is Rosie from the Jetsons. Oh wait, doing a search for images it appears I have false-memory syndrome. She was not on self-balancing wheels. But wouldn't robotics be a great application for this? Cities are flat, robotic walking devices are crude and complicated. A robot on two self-balancing wheels would be great for autonomous work around a city...
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
Maybe people riding on Segways don't look like dorks... they look like people who want to reach their destinations and do not have time for walking or even jogging.
I don't have one, don't need one, but would buy one if I had a use for it.
Over here in the UK, you hardly ever see Segways but whilst at our place in Spain, me and the missus came across a brochure of some company offering a few hours of riding around our local salt flats on them along with a guide.
We both thoroughly enjoyed it. It took about 20 minutes with the instructor/guide getting to grips with the machine but after that it was quite straightforward.
I don't think I'd want to pay the 6,000 Euro price for one that the guide said they cost but we'd both definitely hire them again for a morning of whizzing around on the sands...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Can America GET any FATTER?
Keep pushing SEGWAYS to find out.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
I ride Motorcycles, I have my whole life. I can't stand these guys who come out to the country where I live and ride their bicycles while wearing fag looking spandex shorts and riding 3 abreast into the road. The CT state law says I have to stay 3 feet away from these assclowns, segway riders included. That puts me in the other lane. I just want to kick their Fag Buts when I ride by and push their Fag Asses in the dirt. I don't mind the average dude who looses his license and uses his bike for transportation but dressing up like your on the tour de France, comm on, that is so Queer
Paul E. Bahre