I meant to finish my first paragraph before posting -- MST3k can trademark their name and brand and product but they cannot trademark a form of expression any more than they could trademark a particular kind of poem or the idea of a novel. You cannot trademark the idea of sitting in the theater and making fun of movies. It's a clever idea, sure, but the thing is you can make fun many different ways of many different kinds of movies. So it's a form of expression that other people can use in very different ways; Best Brains is going beyond just protecting their own revenue when they do this, they are trying to stifle the creative expression of other artists.
Since MST3Ks idea to begin with is already about appropriating another art form and making fun of it and thereby making it their own expression, their actions are even less defensible. What if I watched an MST3k show making fun of "Tarzan" and I thought, gosh, that remake of Tarzan with the insane commentary by puppets was really lame; I am going to stop buying Tarzan products now? That is roughly analogous to what Best Brains is claiming here.
If it was a true parody, they would be doing a send-up of people who made fun of movies. They're not. They're making fun of movices themselves, just like the MST3K people do. That's the difference.
Are you seriously suggesting that the practice of making fun of movies is something they own? I haven't seen the show, but it sounds to me like they are making different kinds of jokes and have different themes in the movies they're making fun of.
I understand your point about them making a lame movie and someone else thinking it is Best Brains fault. If I picked up a copy of the El Vez album, there is at least a small risk that I will think it is an Elvis Presley album and attribute my negative thoughts about El Vez to Mr. Presley. Or if I grabbed a Dread Zeppelin album and thought I was getting Led Zeppelin, that would be the same problem. But as long as Mr. Vez and Mr. Zeppelin were not clearly trying to deceive me into mixing them up -- and regardless of how similar sounding "sinus" and "science" might be, it seems pretty damn obvious to me that there is a difference, and the difference can easily be cleared right up if anyone is confused. Trademark law should protect you from someone intentionally deceiving people by making them think their product is yours; but it does not protect you against such confusion when it occurs through the ignorance of the consumer. Again, if there is a clear intention to mislead the consumer, I would agree with you, but here I don't see it. This may be a parody of an obscure show, but it is a parody nonetheless.
Parody both makes fun of and pays tribute to the original. If there was an attempt to deceive people into thinking this product was produced by MST3K, that would be one thing, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I don't know, I haven't seen the show, but it sounds to me like they are making fun of MST3k, using different types of content and different themes, including adult themes. And MST3k in turn was making fun of films that they showed unedited as part of their expression -- hence the hypocrisy that many feel marks MST3k's decision to sue.
Frankly, I think MST3k is using their trademark to stifle the creativity of another artist working in the same form. For me personally that kind of expression trumps trademark law -- as I said in my previous post, a judge may not agree with me, but I of course have truth on my side;^). They are not just copying mst3k; they added themes not present in the original and are making humourous commentary on it.
Incidentally, I don't think you can trademark the "format" any more than you could be sued for expressing yourself using a sonnet or limerick. They can trademark the name and the characters, but not the idea of sitting in a theater cracking jokes about stupid movies. (In fact, the latter is something I was doing long before MST ever came out).
All that said, if I were the artists, I would probably change the name if the MST3k guys asked me to. But I just don't think they should be legally forced to. They are expressing themselves and in the process making fun of and paying tribute to another artist.
It is like the singer El Vez -- he dresses and looks like Elvis, he copies his song formats, and does something different yet entertaining with it. I don't know if Elvis is trademarked but if the company that owns that trademark sued El Vez I think they should lose. I don't think this case is any different. Perhaps the parody of MST3k is lame, but it is not the law's job to differentiate between clever parody and lame parody.
The group is not using their name or trademark. They are using a parody of it. And an obvious parody at that. I agree that MST3k should be protected from being confused with another product, but when the other product is obviously making fun of (and paying tribute to) the original through parody, the slight risk of confusion by people who are not that familiar with the original product to begin with should not be outweighed by the first amendment rights of the group creating the parody.
I don't see what about "Mister Sinus" is NOT parodic. Yes it might confuse people who are not familiar with MST3K but if they're not familiar with it to begin with, that just means they won't get the parody; it doesn't mean that they will start buying "Mister Sinus" products thinking they are "Mystery Science" products. "Mister Sinus" is obviously a parody, and obviously not an attempt to be deceptive. "Mister Science" maybe is questionable but not Mister freakin Sinus! You don't lose your right to parody something just because you're too clever or too obscure about it.
Now, whether a trademark judge would agree with me is another question; certainly cases like this have been won by the original trademark holder, even in cases where the parody is even more blatant. Personally I think trademark law should not be used at all to stifle free expression whether in the form of parody or criticism; to me it should only be a remedy in cases where the attempt to deceive and steal markets is obviously the main point of the trademark violation.
Now nobody can complain about the Mac having no games. Between this and the puzzle-thing they are re-introducing in Tiger, the Mac now has both shoot-em-up and strategy games covered!
It's a brilliant solution, actually. Apple engineers figured out a way to make the universe spin around the CD so that the CD remains stationery during use.
Man, I remember the days of Linux goth sluts, but Windows sluts? That's really low. I don't even want to know what kind of viruses they are carrying....
Well, since this ugly thing with a bad UI won't be slaying the iPod Mini any time soon, I suppose it means that you should only listen to Slayer on this thing.
Who the hell calls KFC? IIRC, they don't deliver or take orders over the phone. It's fast food, what are you going to ask them? Hey, you guys have any chicken today?
Actually, you could have a lot of fun answering some of those calls and playing games with the callers. "I'm sorry, Sir, we're out of chicken today. No, our other stores are out of chicken too. In fact, we're under new ownership, and will feature an all vegetarian menu. Thank you for calling Kentucky Fried Tofu."
It says "35." It has always said "35." It has never said "25"; this is just a collective hallucination of slashdot readers. God will roast their stomachs in hell!
That's just there to deceive you into thinking it's a hoax.
On similar note, Apple will be marketing their latest consumer product on the cover of an upcoming magazine; there was a copy of the magazine cover in the same elevator as the new iMac. Leaked photo here.
Slashdot Mirror
Since MST3Ks idea to begin with is already about appropriating another art form and making fun of it and thereby making it their own expression, their actions are even less defensible. What if I watched an MST3k show making fun of "Tarzan" and I thought, gosh, that remake of Tarzan with the insane commentary by puppets was really lame; I am going to stop buying Tarzan products now? That is roughly analogous to what Best Brains is claiming here.
Are you seriously suggesting that the practice of making fun of movies is something they own? I haven't seen the show, but it sounds to me like they are making different kinds of jokes and have different themes in the movies they're making fun of.
I understand your point about them making a lame movie and someone else thinking it is Best Brains fault. If I picked up a copy of the El Vez album, there is at least a small risk that I will think it is an Elvis Presley album and attribute my negative thoughts about El Vez to Mr. Presley. Or if I grabbed a Dread Zeppelin album and thought I was getting Led Zeppelin, that would be the same problem. But as long as Mr. Vez and Mr. Zeppelin were not clearly trying to deceive me into mixing them up -- and regardless of how similar sounding "sinus" and "science" might be, it seems pretty damn obvious to me that there is a difference, and the difference can easily be cleared right up if anyone is confused. Trademark law should protect you from someone intentionally deceiving people by making them think their product is yours; but it does not protect you against such confusion when it occurs through the ignorance of the consumer. Again, if there is a clear intention to mislead the consumer, I would agree with you, but here I don't see it. This may be a parody of an obscure show, but it is a parody nonetheless.
Frankly, I think MST3k is using their trademark to stifle the creativity of another artist working in the same form. For me personally that kind of expression trumps trademark law -- as I said in my previous post, a judge may not agree with me, but I of course have truth on my side ;^). They are not just copying mst3k; they added themes not present in the original and are making humourous commentary on it.
Incidentally, I don't think you can trademark the "format" any more than you could be sued for expressing yourself using a sonnet or limerick. They can trademark the name and the characters, but not the idea of sitting in a theater cracking jokes about stupid movies. (In fact, the latter is something I was doing long before MST ever came out).
All that said, if I were the artists, I would probably change the name if the MST3k guys asked me to. But I just don't think they should be legally forced to. They are expressing themselves and in the process making fun of and paying tribute to another artist.
It is like the singer El Vez -- he dresses and looks like Elvis, he copies his song formats, and does something different yet entertaining with it. I don't know if Elvis is trademarked but if the company that owns that trademark sued El Vez I think they should lose. I don't think this case is any different. Perhaps the parody of MST3k is lame, but it is not the law's job to differentiate between clever parody and lame parody.
The group is not using their name or trademark. They are using a parody of it. And an obvious parody at that. I agree that MST3k should be protected from being confused with another product, but when the other product is obviously making fun of (and paying tribute to) the original through parody, the slight risk of confusion by people who are not that familiar with the original product to begin with should not be outweighed by the first amendment rights of the group creating the parody.
So it should be called "stealing potential revenue"?
Now, whether a trademark judge would agree with me is another question; certainly cases like this have been won by the original trademark holder, even in cases where the parody is even more blatant. Personally I think trademark law should not be used at all to stifle free expression whether in the form of parody or criticism; to me it should only be a remedy in cases where the attempt to deceive and steal markets is obviously the main point of the trademark violation.
It runs OS/2.
Now nobody can complain about the Mac having no games. Between this and the puzzle-thing they are re-introducing in Tiger, the Mac now has both shoot-em-up and strategy games covered!
This story is about cash, silly!
yeah, can't you guys complain about the mouse or something?
It's a brilliant solution, actually. Apple engineers figured out a way to make the universe spin around the CD so that the CD remains stationery during use.
Wow!! They made a dell desktop that runs OS X?!?!?!?
For the games, dude!! Everybody knows the iPod doesn't have any good games!
Oh yeah, also because you can use two mouse buttons.
Man, I remember the days of Linux goth sluts, but Windows sluts? That's really low. I don't even want to know what kind of viruses they are carrying....
Well, since this ugly thing with a bad UI won't be slaying the iPod Mini any time soon, I suppose it means that you should only listen to Slayer on this thing.
You mean those who want to hear the pillsbury dough boy squeal in high fidelity?
That won't help a bit. You can still end up spending a LOT of money following this advice.
"Nobody will ever need more than 7.2 inches."
Actually, you could have a lot of fun answering some of those calls and playing games with the callers. "I'm sorry, Sir, we're out of chicken today. No, our other stores are out of chicken too. In fact, we're under new ownership, and will feature an all vegetarian menu. Thank you for calling Kentucky Fried Tofu."
--Information Commander Muhammed Saeed al-Taco
I send you this file in order to have your advice.
See you later!
Thanks
On similar note, Apple will be marketing their latest consumer product on the cover of an upcoming magazine; there was a copy of the magazine cover in the same elevator as the new iMac. Leaked photo here.
I want some of what you're smoking.
Good grammar from the company who trademarked "Think Different" would seem even more fake.
Customer: Hello, Support? I'm having a problem with my iPod.
Support: What seems to be the problem?
Customer: It's making horrible wailing noises that hurt my ears!
Support: What you need to do is to open your iPod under iTunes, go into "Artists" and delete everything by Tori Amos or Celine Dion.
Customer: That worked! Thanks!