HP To Start Selling Its iPod

Dozix007 writes "Uberhacker.Com is reporting that HP said Friday it will start selling its version of the iPod in September. HP's white iPod will be sold in a 20-gigabyte and 40-gigabyte version for $299 and $399 respectively. Apple's prices are the same. It is essentially a clone of the current design, with no real modification."

Comments

Is this really news?

[Anonymous Coward]

What else was HP going to do with them? Eat them? Plant them in the ground and hope iPod trees sprout?

Re:Is this really news?

[blkmagic]

Though I don't think it's big news, it's not an HP-branded iPod, as they had originally stated when they showed the blue/gray iPod at an Apple press release. It's an Apple iPod. HP's shopping web site lists it as an "Apple iPod from HP." I'm not sure what the big deal is; every computer manufacturer offers complementary products from different vendors. That way they're getting the margin off the product instead of someone else getting it when they by the accessory later anyway. I guess the one significant thing about this is that it doesn't appear that Apple's likely to open up the iPod architecture any time soon, hardware or software.

Re:Is this really news?

[Hillie]

I am thankful that they didn't mess with it or change it.. It's great the way it is..

Most of HP's hardware is royally f*cked.. their PC's suck. pretty much the only thing they make that doesn't suck is their printers.

My first response to this at a glance was "OH NO!! They didn't sell the rights for iPod to HP PLEASE NO!"

The HP iPod could have gone the way of Netscape, Winamp, 3dfx, etc. all being completely ruined when they got bought out.

Re:Is this really news?

[Anonymous Coward]

--What else was HP going to do with them? Eat them? Plant them in the ground and hope iPod trees sprout?

Boil 'em? Mash 'em? Stick 'em in a stew?

Re:Is this really news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds tasty.

Re:Is this really news?

[antic]

This is advertising. Nothing new. It's the same iPod with an extra logo and that's about it. Should not have been approved as content on this site.

Re:Is this really news?

[JamesOfTheDesert]

I am thankful that they didn't mess with it or change it.. It's great the way it is..

Question: Is it easy to change the hard drive and the battery?

Just curious; last I heard, if your battery died, you were sort of screwed, and for that sort of money you should be able to easily swap out/fix stuff on your own, should you care to.

Re:Is this really news?

[NatasRevol]

Umm, google for ipod battery and spend less time to find out than you spent typing your question.

OR just go to iPod Battery

Re:Is this really news?

[Hillie]

good point.

I'm not sure about that but it does seem hella popular.

Ok. I read that in the past Apple was sued over battery issues, but found that now you can get it replaced for $99 and mailing in the iPod, and found some links for replacement batteries:

http://mac-pro.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen =P ROD&Product_Code=ipodbat&Category_Code=pt

Quote from this site http://ipod.davyfields.com/ :

I got an original iPod within days of it's arrival at retail stores... I was using it until Christmas 2003, just fine. I've dropped it in a puddle in San Francisco, taken it across the world, played thousands of hours of music with it.... and the battery didn't ever degrade noticeably. I'm not saying there's no merit to the claims, but I really hate this news. Apple made an incredible product, so far ahead of it's time that the original iPod from 2001 still bests all other digital players today.... the battery technology that exists on the planet today is inherently flawed, because charge after charge, they lose their ability to hold a charge. That's the way life is. 18 months is the time people seem to be tossing around as the "death date", although I haven't seen much user feedback on this aside from the news from that whacko in New York. Apple now offers a $99 plan for replacing the battery, and you can purchase a replacement on your own from other places for cheaper.

and there's an iPod battery faq:

http://www.ipodbatteryfaq.com/

Re:Is this really news?

[Ohreally_factor]

Dude, if you had enough money and you farted, some lawyer would come after you with a class action suit.

I'm not against class action law suits in principle, and we've seen them do some good, but we've also seen too much abuse.

What bothers me the most about such abuses is that they give ammunition to the "tort reformers" who would like to see only the corporations and the rich with access to lawyers.

If it works.....

[ericdano]

If it works, why change it? Hopefully prices will go down a little......

Re:If it works.....

[Anonymous Coward]

you know, bows and arrows worked pretty well for a time.
why change em?

Re:If it works.....

[Anonymous Coward]

why would you lower the price of an item that's selling like crazy?

Re:If it works.....

[Anonymous Coward]

if "it" works

What do you mean by "it"? HP's decision to stop all innovation and try to become a follower in everything they do by just cloning and reselling the products of others?

This aproach may work for the cheap taiwanese knock-offs companies we're all familiar with, but I'd expect better from HP.

These guys once had everything - the best CPUs (Alpha, PA RISC), and now they're an intel-clone-box-reseller. Solid operating systems (HPUX, VMS), and now they're just a microsoft reseller. The best search engine (DEC, now HP) could have been google.

Seems their strategy now it to let everyone else do all the innovation, and just become a follower and hope to make money reselling other's designs (such as attempting to resell Linux and use SCO FUD to become the prefered vendor).

HP... why don't you try hiring back some of those guys you fired and making some of your own advances again.

Re:If it works.....

[Anonymous Coward]

If it sells, why lower the price?

Re:If it works.....

[NanoGator]

"why change em? "

Cos my villagers researched ARMOR!

Re:If it works.....

[jimbolaya]

These are innovative. You manage playlists using Reverse Polish Notation.

Re:If it works.....

[mog007]

HP still makes pretty bitchin' laser printers on their own.

Re:If it works.....

[anethema]

I find that the true heart of HP broke off with Agilent. HP was a massive electronics company in all forms. Agilent split off and took what I thought was HP's core business with them.

Just go to agilent.com and look at their products and services. After they split, HP basically became, yes, a beige box reseller. They had alpha..but did shit all with it. Their unix seems to be pretty dead , in favour of microsoft offerings like you said.

So as far as hiring guys back like you said...maybe they could beg agilent to re-merge with them ;)

Re:If it works.....

[Anonymous Coward]

People get tired of things after a certain amount of time. Girlfriends. Laptops. MP3 Players. They become too "same." Same thing every day.

I wish they stuck to the "if it works, why change it" montra over at BMW, but they went ahead and uglied up the 7 series so that people would perceive it as somehow new and exciting.

Re:If it works.....

[Sunnan]

I would want that; a stack-based RPN playlist manager.

Re:If it works.....

[Halfbaked Plan]

These guys once had everything - the best CPUs (Alpha, PA RISC), Solid operating systems (HPUX, VMS), The best search engine (DEC, now HP) could have been google.

Well, now they've got Carly.

What a bum deal, eh?

Re:If it works.....

[nolife]

Not quite. I believe they are coasting here also. The quality of constuction of thier printers seems to be going down hill also. Everything I've seen since around the 4000 and on is getting cheaper and cheaper. I was unboxing some 4200's and I broke the back door off of one of them when the plastic bag it was shipped in got caught on it as I was pulling it off. The front door on another unit pulled off and the spring went flying when I was removing the HP orange tape they put on it to keep things closed in transit (anyone who ever unpacked an HP printer knows what tape I am talking about). The newer HP printers have more features and are faster but they sure seem to be lacking the rock hard construction they used to have. I believe the days of the million plus page counts of the 5si with little to no maintenance on whatever paper you decide to feed it are gone.
As someone else further up stated, HP's days are numbered. HP is no longer thinking any more then the next quarters numbers and the firing of three executives earlier this month shows that big time. You can only coast on a name so long. A quote contained in the link above:
"You have to be concerned about the leadership at Hewlett-Packard, every quarter, it seems to be a different explanation for what went wrong."

Re:If it works.....

[JamesOfTheDesert]

If it sells, why lower the price?

Makes it harder for competition to enter the market.

Re:If it works.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Did anyone else other than me, just get a picture of dilbert when reading this comment. It for some reason reminded me of catbert.

Re:If it works.....

[fordboy0]

Requesting new moderation level Mod +1 Genius

Re:If it works.....

[Mudcathi]

"now they're just a microsoft reseller"

Huh? You made this comment in a thread about HP reselling Apple tech. The same HP that just announced a new Linux laptop. The same HP that... oh, nevermind. This is the same HP that won't let me refill my ink cartridges with cheap non-HP kits. To hell with the great neo-MS Shaitan!

Re:If it works.....

[hype10]

Well, I am certainly surprised that they are selling essentially a clone. I work as a researcher at HP Labs, which is the biggest computer research labs in Europe. I definitely know of a couple of ideas they were considering adding which would have been very cool. As to innovation, HP Labs research products with a release date of 3-20+ years in the future, so there is still a bit of innovation left!

Re:If it works.....

[Ohreally_factor]

I'm not absolutely sure, but these don't look like "clones" to me. They look like Apple iPods, as in "from Apple Computer". Betcha donut.

Re:If it works.....

[WIAKywbfatw]

The reason why continental Europe feared the English in battle (cf, Henry V at Agincourt) was precisely because the English archers were able to decimate even armoured opponents at long range.

It wasn't armour that nullified the tactical advantage of the longbow, it was the invention of gunpowder and the musket.

if two businessmen come with the same idea

[stroustrup]

one of them is useless.

Why couldn't they have chosen a lower price?

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[gl4ss]

because it _is_ an ipod, not just a clone. it's the same thing.

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[Hollinger]

If I recall, the reason HP's selling this is because it comes with the proper accessories to make the iPod play nicely on PCs. I can't recall the details (someone else care to fill this in?), but there are problems with using the iPod dock to charge the machine and also sync up your files at the same time, or something silly where on Macs it "just plain works" but on PCs requires extra stuff or steps.

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[jimbolaya]

I think with the 3rd generation (3G) iPods, you couldn't recharge from the USB interface, which is what most Wintel users would use (versus FireWire). The 4G iPod, whether from Apple or HP, allows USB charging.

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[Moofie]

Well, I'm not totally sure what you're talking about, but here's a stab at it.

The 4G iPods can use the USB2 cable to charge, and to sync data, but not simultaneously. Or, you can use a FireWire port on your PC, and everything is totally ducky.

My Powerbook is my primary computer, but my iPod is formatted as a Windows HDD and it works beautifully on PCs, even with USB 1 ports (although copying music that way is astoundingly slow, it DOES work).

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[mottie]

one of them is useless. Who's going to give better support, the company that designed it, or the company that resells it. Think I'll stick to an Apple iPod

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not a different color at least? No point if it's the same thing for the same price.

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[captnitro]

That accessory is, unless I'm mistaken, iTunes for Windows. :)

I think it may have more to do with the "last-minute checkout suggestive sell factor", a factor which I just coined, so get down with it.

You know how when you're at a grocery store/Wal-mart/etc. they have everything from socks to cokes to everything you came there for in the first place in the checkout line? The idea is to get people away from thinking that HP is a company run solely by people who carry slide rules in their pocket-protected-pockets along with a roll of tape for their thick Apollo-era glasses.

The fact that thick glasses are in if you're emo is another thing entirely. I think they just want to keep the glasses and change the shirt to an overpriced paper-thin Get Up Kids concert purchase. So now the engineers wear thick glasses, carry an iPod, hide vodka under their bed and cry over the the bygone era of riding those giant one-wheeled bicycles to deliver surprise roses to your crush that has never heard of you.

Selling the iPod is HP's "dell guy", and I doubt the iPod, being a non-sentient, inanimate object -- however cute -- can get arrested for possession.

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[Smurf]

My Powerbook is my primary computer, but my iPod is formatted as a Windows HDD and it works beautifully on PCs...

Did you format it using the Powerbook or a PC? If it's the first case, can you please tell me what tool you used?

I used to have my iPod formated as a Windows HD, but an update forced me to reformat it. Some updates suck.

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[jeriqo]

Then HP is just a reseller..
Or maybe the packing will be different ?

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[Moofie]

I formatted it on the Windows PC, and I assume I'll have to do any updates the same way. However, that's a pretty small inconvenience for being able to plug it into any computer on Earth. I also picked up the PocketDock that has a USB and a Firewire port, so I just need any ol' cable instead of schlepping around the Apple cables. It's a good solution.

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[gl4ss]

a rebranding reseller.

i suppose a lot of 'hp' hardware is just rebranded generic stuff, so no biggie.

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[netglen]

Just like when Epson started selling Zip-100 drives. Funky seeing a white Zip drive. :D

Re:if two businessmen come with the same idea

[lp-habu]

Why couldn't they have chosen a lower price?

I'm sure they could have. Perhaps they saw no reason to. A lower price might make you happier, but as long as they can sell them at the current price as fast as they can make them it's hard to see why they should reduce it.

Why didn't they go with the HP blue

[antifoidulus]

I thought one of the reasons that HP was selling the iPod was so that they could sell it in "HP blue", which would have given at least 1 reason to buy it from them(I don't use HP products, so I could care less but)

Re:Why didn't they go with the HP blue

[Phroggy]

Maybe because everybody was calling it "strangled corpse blue" instead. ;-)

Re:Why didn't they go with the HP blue

[Anonymous Coward]

From what I remember, one of the main reasons behind this deal was that it would greatly increase Apple's production capability - and since Mini's are still sold out in most places, they need the additional production

Re:Why didn't they go with the HP blue

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? It sounds as if you could not care less...

iThod So

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, sorry--I thought so. There were rumors that HP would eventually start selling those things.

Re:iThod So

[Anonymous Coward]

you're a real po thead.

What's the point?

[Grant29]

Same function, same price, same look.... I'd rather have the original myself.
--

Play the Gmail Invitation Giveaway contest. 4 invites availiable.

Re:What's the point?

[aflat362]

My guess is that HP is thinking that people will "throw in an HP iPod" when making an HP computer purchase.

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can pretty much say the same for all HP products (except their printers and calculators). Since they gave up PA-RISC, Alpha, HPUX, VMS, etc there really isn't much left in that company. Guess Carly's strategy was to no only be a reseller of windows, but to be a reseller of Apple too.

I just can't figure out why HP likes this strategy.

Re:What's the point?

[NeoSkandranon]

I agree.

However, I have trouble thinking people who are going for a 500 dollar computer are going to "throw in" a 300 dollar MP3 player on the side (for whatever reason--financial or otherwise)

Re:What's the point?

[$exyNerdie]

My guess is that HP is thinking that people will "throw in an HP iPod" when making an HP computer purchase.

My guess is that HP is thinking that people will "throw in an HP PC" when making an HP iPod purchase.

Re:What's the point?

[ToKsUri]

That is the only reasonable argument I have ever read. It is the only reason that logically fits so that both HP sells a "same product-same price" product, and furthermore, Apple allowing it.

Re:What's the point?

[amichalo]

My guess is that HP is thinking that people will "throw in an HP iPod" when making an HP computer purchase.

Exactly, plus, the whole "same price as Apple" can be fudged when the hPod is "bundled" with a computer. HP can take a loss on the computer if they are making highl margins on the hPod and the CONSUMER WINS!

Oh and about your tag line:
Boycott Walmart - Recycle - Vote Bush out of office in 04
Three checks for me!

Re:What's the point?

[Bricklets]

To this day, do you know how many people have come up to me and inquired about the iPod I'm listening to only to then ask, "But's it's made by Apple right? Does it work on my PC?"

These are the people HP is hoping will buy *their* iPod.

Re:What's the point?

[fafaforza]

HP also has a much wider network of retail points of sale (Costco, BestBuy, etc) as well as better international outlets. I don't know any numbers, but one can assume that the market has been very much saturated by iPods in the states. This should give Apple a much wider potential customer reach.

Re:What's the point?

[Halfbaked Plan]

Plus, there are those of us who will never, ever, buy a product new from Apple again.

Re:What's the point?

[ImpTech]

Ah, but lots of stupid people buy $2000 HPs. They'll get suckered into an iPod for sure.

Re:What's the point?

[Bricklets]

Agreed. But the for the two examples you had given, don't they (Costco and Bestbuy) already sell iPods?

Re:What's the point?

[Bricklets]

Isn't this exactly the same as the iPod from Apple? Why would buying from HP be any different than buying from Apple if you're purposely avoiding Apple products?

Re:What's the point?

[doodlelogic]

Same function, same price, same look.... I'd rather have the original myself.

Do you mean the HPiPOD or Uberhacker?

Re:What's the point?

[Siniset]

i think that's why his name is "halfbaked plan".

Re:What's the point?

[Bricklets]

haha, i didn't see that! thanks for pointing that one out.

What's the point?

[KangXii]

Really, someone let me know. Please. If it's for competition, don't you think they should have different prices?

Re:The links are endless

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to Slashdot. Other People's News

Invent?

[caober]

HP should change their "Invent" tag-line to "Copy what works and will make us money".

Re:Invent?

[Anonymous Coward]

HP is tryiing to leverage it's print and media technology. They will have skins that can be printed to customize the ipods. I think 10 skins for $14.99 and sort of follows the cell phone market where you can buy various faceplates.

Re:Invent?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think HP is trying to become an electronics reseller to business. They've abandoned most of their own technologies to mostly resell Windows and Intel to corporations and sell services.

It's not the strangest product they resell- Heck, this is the company that even co-brands T-Mobible wifi-access at starbucks.

and I think their management thinks this strategy's working well. seems they want to be the WalMart to corporations.

Re:Invent?

[kdogg73]

I tell you what. As a life time Apple user, HP hit a soft spot with me. Supporting an Apple product, albeit with their name on it, says a lot to me. When my wife and I get a new computer for her, it will be HP. Let's hope they bundle one of those iPods with it!

Re:Invent?

[Moofie]

You understand that HP==Packard Bell in terms of build quality, right?

HP PCs are stupendously assy. Good luck with your purchase. I guess.

Re:Invent?

[gabbarbhai]

A new HP insteady of an iMAC? Interesting..

Re:Invent?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Don't buy a retail / consumer HP. That advice generally applies to any other electronics product too.

Their corporate / IT stuff should be a lot better, although it depends on the model.

I think the grandparent post was a joke though.

Re:Invent?

[Anonymous Coward]

as someone who generally holds large computer companies in contempt, I bought a few dual processor Xeon proliant servers.

I have to say, the build quality was PHENOMENAL! I genuinely like Compaq kit, cos it's expensive, but there's thought but into it, but I was blown away by this stuff. redundant fans, exhaust funnels (not quite on the same par as Apple's G5) but it was NEARLY there! I will be buying HP again.

oh wait I did. my laptop is HP. the screen developed a crack in it and HP replaced the screen under the warranty with a turnaround of 3 days!

the only thing I was upset about was despite buying my laptop with XP professional, and therefore it has an XP professional sticker on it, but I'd stuck Gentoo on it... on the statement I got back said "Screen replaced, Bios Flashed, new OS installed"
Thanks HP for installing XP with probably EVERY option EVER. Including AOL icons, bathtub icons.. who knows!?

Re:Invent?

[blackwizard]

They could also leverage their LightScribe technology for making CD labels. Buy an album from the iTMS, get the label for free?

Re:Invent?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can bet the ipod bundles will be retail and not corporate.

Re:Invent?

[tupps]

Please don't!

My Dad has a 2 year old HP Scanner that he has hooked up to his iMac. Any chance of MacOSX drivers (even though it was being sold when MacOSX was released) nope, even though they promised them for a damn long time.

Supposedly the printer is USB but instead of putting a USB interface into the printer all they did is stuck a USB-->Parallel converter in the scanner. The problem with this is that because of the complicated usb-->parallel problems no one else (such as the guys who write Vuescan) can write drivers either.

Don't expect any support/drivers for the machine once the product is off the shelves.

Re:Invent?

[seann]

try getting a scanner that actually has drivers out on the web, dumbass.

Re:Invent?

[Moofie]

Because I'm certain that HP will be bundling iPods with their corporate/IT gear.

Uh huh.

Re:Invent?

[tupps]

I didn't buy the scanner, my Dad did. He bought one that worked with his current setup (OS9 this was in 2002) and MacOSX was out at the time and *all* of HP's scanner drivers were stated as drivers for MacOSX were in development. At that stage there were very few MacOSX drivers and neither the Epson or HP scanners that Dad was looking at had drivers (he wanted a mid price with transparency adaptor).

I sort of assumed that HP would forfill there promise that they would make their drivers available. And for that reason I will not buy HP products again.

Re:Invent?

[seann]

Maybe you should use a real operating system then.

Bad bad bad...

[FiReaNGeL]

If the price is the same... they're screwed. Apple's Ipod force is brand recognition... Same feature set too! I wonder who thought that it would be a good idea... and they got a license from Apple (which cost $$$, and maybe a % of profits)... I just don't understand?

Re:Bad bad bad...

[maddskillz]

Brand recognition and bling bling. Chicks dig Apple

Re:Bad bad bad...

[seann]

Good technical support.

Re:Bad bad bad...

[Anonymous Coward]

.. it's not a license, they are Apples with a hp logo on back, and an hp phone support/warranty. This is great for Apple/hp/and the consumer. If someone want hp blue, skin/tattoo it!

Re:Bad bad bad...

[NanoGator]

"If the price is the same... they're screwed. Apple's Ipod force is brand recognition... " ... and an ill-informed implication that you need a Mac. This isn't necessarily a bad move for the masses.

Re:Bad bad bad...

[Phroggy]

Apple's Ipod force is brand recognition... ...which is why HP is calling it an iPod, not calling it something lame like "The HP Digital Jukebox".

Re:Bad bad bad...

[Anonymous Coward]

lesbian bull dikes dig apple

Re:Bad bad bad...

[leozc]

Price war will start soon. It is well-known that HP/Compaq is price knocker...

Re:Bad bad bad...

[kitty tape]

As I understand it, the market HP is going after isn't the market for people looking for iPods. Those people are still going to buy from Apple. I think the market they are going for is the people who are buying HP computers. HP will be able to offer them an iPod when they buy the computer. This isn't necessarily a bad strategy. About half the people I know who bought iPods bought them because they were buying a Apple laptop anyway. The market they are going for are the people who figure I'm already spending $N already, may as well spend a few hundred more on an iPod, not the people who were going to buy one anyway.

Re:Bad bad bad...

[elenko]

Not so bad.

In Europe all Apple products cost more compared to US, because their distribution network sucks. Moreover, I'm in Eastern Europe and we don't have an official Apple representative, only resellers.

So, I'm more likely to choose HP products, because they're cheaper and their support is better around here.

eenk

Recognizable as an iPod?

[neuro.slug]

More iPod units out, but possibly less iPod brand recognition? It says it's similar, but I'm curious how the iPod and hpPod differ. I guess it's good for Apple, as hpPod users will probably use the iTMS.

-- n

Re:Recognizable as an iPod?

[sqrt(2)]

Or they'll do what most iPod owners do and get their music for free. You might find this interesting, and this. I should also say that I own an iPod, and not only have I never used the iTMS, but I don't even have iTunes installed.

Re:Recognizable as an iPod?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're the same. Exactly the same, right down to the Apple logo. HP is basically just reselling Apple iPods. No real news here.

Re:Recognizable as an iPod?

[Phroggy]

More iPod units out, but possibly less iPod brand recognition? It says it's similar, but I'm curious how the iPod and hpPod differ. I guess it's good for Apple, as hpPod users will probably use the iTMS.

As far as I know, the only difference is the addition of an HP logo next to the Apple logo on the back. And HP already ships iTunes pre-installed on new PCs.

Re:Recognizable as an iPod?

[Anonymous Coward]

HP iPod=Apple iPod. The only difference is what is etched into the back and the fact that Apple iPods are "born" formatted for Macs whereas the HP iPods are "born" formatted FAT. I'm not completely sure, but the HP iPods might also just bee flat out incompatible with Macs. Doubt it, though.
Also, RTFA.

Re:Recognizable as an iPod?

[RichardX]

I'm curious how the iPod and hpPod differ.

Well...
One brings to mind images of young, trendy upwardly mobile people with style, taste and disposable income...

The other sounds like a hip replacement operation.

Bundling possibilities?

[chrispyman]

Perhaps the reason HP is doing this is so that it can perhaps bundle the iPod with some back-to-school computer they'll be selling. Though I think they'd probably get more buyers if they had some sort of "limited edition HP branded iPod".

Re:Bundling possibilities?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you. I'm sitting here wondering why HP is selling iPods (it's not like Apple is an unknown brand somewhere on the planet), and RTFA doesn't apply because both the Post links are useless.

Now we've got two reasons in this thread: bundling, and longer telephone support.

Anyone know HP's purported or actual reason for this move? I mean it's like buying a Focus from a Chevy dealer.

And does anyone happen to know if the EULA will be any different?

Re:Bundling possibilities?

[DarkBlackFox]

I'd guess the big reason for bundling is the price of HP's PCs. People usually have a set budget when they go out to buy a computer. When buying from Apple, people know they'll be spending around or over $1,000 for a decent machine, which for most people wouldn't leave much left over for accessories. If you set a budget of $1,000, and you come accross the $499 HP PC, you have $501 left over from what you originally planned on spending, so why not bundle in a cute little useful accessory? You'll still be under your budget, but feel like you're getting much more. It's easier to make a bundle when working with cheaper goods- more people would be more likely to take up the offer.

Re:Bundling possibilities?

[Rew190]

Perhaps the reason HP is doing this is so that it can perhaps bundle the iPod with some back-to-school computer they'll be selling.

A little late in the game, wouldn't you say?

Re:Bundling possibilities?

[cubicledrone]

Perhaps the reason HP is doing this is so that it can perhaps bundle the iPod with some back-to-school computer they'll be selling.

And so they can make an unrealistic commercial in the "I have an American Dream(tm) and you don't" series featuring a Suburban Dad in the traditional Suburban Dad Uniform of a mangy t-shirt, shorts with a lot of pockets (for all that disposaspendable cash and all those glittery credit cards named after various precious metals) and sandals and the traditional Suburban future University Perfect Homecoming Princess browsing the overpriced aisle for a "welcome to your new corporately-sponsored entertainment experience" which can be loaded into the back of the $85,000 SUV, driven back to the five-bedroom, 1/2 acre earthy-toned cement, glass, wood, grass and paving stone surrounded Suburban Castle nestled in the cul-de-sac, then assembled in the warm glow of the plasma television and the sound of Suburban Mom calling the Suburban Family to the Suburban Dinner in the new $175,000 dining room purchased on credit last week at the big-box retail center.

That about cover it? Thanks. Good night and drive safely.

First Apple "clone" license?

[lothar97]

Is this the first time that Apple is licensing their design/technology to another company to produce clones? Everyone gives crap to Apple for not licensing their earlier computers, and being overtaken by the IBM clones.

Good for Apple to extend their market, but might be bad if HP competes in similar market channels.

Re:First Apple "clone" license?

[McDutchie]

Is this the first time that Apple is licensing their design/technology to another company to produce clones?

No.

Re:First Apple "clone" license?

[jcr]

HP isn't cloning the iPod, they're buying them in bulk from Apple. This is just like when Dell offered the iPod through their online store.

-jcr

Re:First Apple "clone" license?

[andfarm]

Not the first time. Apple licensed the Macintosh to several clone companies for a few years sometime around 1997.

Completely offtopic, but why..

[jargonCCNA]

Oh, why... did the poster submit a link to another Slash site?! Honestly, that's as productive as Google News linking to Slashdot! All it does is add yet another click to the process of finding the fucking news!

Re:Completely offtopic, but why..

[Anonymous Coward]

The poster owns the site. Wants to boost his hitcount.

Re:Completely offtopic, but why..

[Anonymous Coward]

Or like buying an iPod from HP...

Please, explain...

[SharpFang]

Price the same, looks the same, functionality the same, brand - uncool. Most people buy iPod because it's The iPod, not some obscure unknown mp3 player. (yes, there are cheaper, lighter, more robust, better players. It's just the great marketing hype and iTunes that make iPod "cool".) Why would anyone choose the "iPod copy" if they can get "iPod original" from the "cool" Apple at the same cost?

Re:Please, explain...

[Anonymous Coward]

AFAIK, the only thing that is different about the hPod is the packaging and some dumb stickers in the box that HP is calling 'tattoos' which go on the iPod to personalize it a little. The unit doesn't even have an HP logo on the back instead of the Apple logo.

don't know why someone would buy one from HP instead of Apple, since they're getting the same exact thing and once you take it out of the box you can't tell them apart.

Re:Please, explain...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it's still called The Apple iPod (from HP). Looks the same, basically IS the same except it was (maybe) made at a different factory and has a tiny HP logo next to the Apple one on the back. And they can pick one up while buying their HP notebook, instead of venturing into the Scary Apple Section of the store.

Re:Please, explain...

[LennyDotCom]

Why would anyone choose the "iPod copy" if they can get "iPod original" from the "cool" Apple at the same cost?
because believe it or not not everybody has heard of the iPod
This will open the iPod to new markets

Re:Please, explain...

[Phroggy]

Price the same, looks the same, functionality the same, brand - uncool. Most people buy iPod because it's The iPod, not some obscure unknown mp3 player. (yes, there are cheaper, lighter, more robust, better players. It's just the great marketing hype and iTunes that make iPod "cool".) Why would anyone choose the "iPod copy" if they can get "iPod original" from the "cool" Apple at the same cost?

This isn't an iPod copy, this is an iPod. It just happens to be sold by HP, and they added an HP logo to the back, right underneath the Apple logo.

Re:Please, explain...

[Moofie]

There are MP3 players that are cheaper, some that are lighter, some that are more robust, but I've never seen one that is better.

The iPod is cheap enough (for me to buy) robust enough (to put up with my abuse) light enough for me to carry with me all the time.

And to top it all off, the design is absolutely brilliant. I'm not talking about the way it looks...I'm talking about the way it WORKS. I've messed with a bunch of other players, but the iPod is peerless.

How "cool" it is is totally irrelevant to how GOOD it is.

Re:Please, explain...

[mobby_6kl]

>There are MP3 players that are cheaper, some that are lighter, some that are more robust, but I've never seen one that is better

Cheaper = better; lighter = better; more robust = bretter. Different person, different "better". For me it was capacity/price. Also useful features, like playback speed, and two more hours of batterey life. I got my 60GB Creative Zen for $20 less than any iPod (new, non mini) costs here. I'm also not an Apple fan so if I really wanted an iPod I wouldn't have a problem getting one from HP.

Re:Please, explain...

[Moofie]

I don't have a problem getting an iPod from HP, but I also don't have a problem getting one from Apple, and HP hasn't given me a good reason to go with them instead of Apple.

Did Creative ever get their players to stop locking up? I had one of their CD players, and one of their flash players, and both were absolutely shit.

How do you figure your Zen is more robust than the iPod? Do you have some substantiation for your claim?

Doesn't the Zen require you to use a keyboard nipple to drive it?

I'm glad you're happy with your player. I wouldn't touch it if it cost half what the iPod did.

Re:Please, explain...

[Anonymous Coward]

also, a lot of people are hoping that iPod will support WMA soon; since it never will, perhaps hpPod will pick up the ball and run with it.

Obviously this is just wishful thinking. But it would be nice.

Re:Please, explain...

[Anonymous Coward]

"a lot of people are hoping that iPod will support WMA soon"

Um, no they aren't.

WMA is dead. Nobody but the marketplace losers are still using it.

Re:Please, explain...

[LennyDotCom]

I doubt Apple would let them I'm sure thier license is nothing more then to manufature them they can't make a chnge like that

Re:Please, explain...

[cosmic_0x526179]

Perhaps because HP has access to other, and different, retail outlets than Apple does... like wal*mart ? We are starting the holiday buying season. Apple wants to move iPods, which will help make the iTMS sell more tracks. Its all about synergy baby.

Re:Please, explain...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you kidding? You can get them for free (well, signing up for a free AOL trial and getting/having/coercing some friends to do the same). These have become a commodity like branded pens and vendor polo shirts.

Free Ipods

Re:Please, explain...

[angle_slam]

As pointed out by many other people, HP has larger penetration than Apple. E.g., if you search circuitcity.com, they don't sell the iPod. Neither do the Office Superstores. But they do sell Hp products.

URL

[jsm008us]

I think this is the URL to it! http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/ipod.html?mt xs=home-ent&mtxb=B2&mtxl=L1 It's exactly the same! At the time of this writing, though, you could not access shopping.hp.com! Can anyone correct me if I am wrong?

Re:URL

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey! Thanks for the URL! Did you find it yourself? That's great work! You saved me so much time! I wish more /.'ers were like you! Have a great day! See you tomorrow!?

In case you're wondering why...

[Sheetrock]

The real question is really why not.

Before, HP didn't have anything like the iPos. Now it can flesh out its home electronics lineup a little bit. You know, sell it in a package with its own computers and tailor the advertising so people don't get too confused about mixing Apple hardware with PC hardware.

They did the same sort of rebranding with CD burners, if I recall correctly.

Support

[NetJunkie]

The HP model will come with 1 year of free phone support where I believe Apple's is 90 days.

Re:Support

[Anonymous Coward]

The Apple iPod comes with a one year warranty by default, although it can be extended to two to three years for like $59 us.

Re:Support

[ceejayoz]

Dude, who needs phone support for an iPod?

Re:Support

[Phroggy]

The HP model will come with 1 year of free phone support where I believe Apple's is 90 days.

Apple recently changed their iPod phone support from 90 days to one free incident, so this is indeed a legitimate reason to choose HP.

Note that one free incident may be better than 90 days free support, if the incident occurs after 90 days. (I'm assuming it's one free incident within the first year, not during the first 90 days; I could be mistaken). Also note that one incident doesn't mean one phone call.

Re:Support

[eriksarcade]

anyone who buys it, duh :P

Re:Support

[Anonymous Coward]

It's one free incident within the first 90 days...

Re:Support

[commodoresloat]

Customer: Hello, Support? I'm having a problem with my iPod.

Support: What seems to be the problem?

Customer: It's making horrible wailing noises that hurt my ears!

Support: What you need to do is to open your iPod under iTunes, go into "Artists" and delete everything by Tori Amos or Celine Dion.

Customer: That worked! Thanks!

Just in time for christmas...

[Anonymous Coward]

iCopy anyone?

Confusing to the End User

[Robocrap]

Why the need to release an iPod with an HP logo on it? I think the only impact this will have is added confusion to the average consumer. People are going to see these HP iPods, which they know full well are Apple iPods, and wonder what's different about them, when both versions are exactly the same. Furthermore, it doesn't give HP a "cooler image" as everyone and their cousin knows full well that the iPod was designed/manufactured by Apple. Some consumers may even think that HP blatantly stole Apple's design. I'm not quite sure I see the point of this, besides throwing HP a bone in return for having iTunes pre-installed on their machines.

Re:Confusing to the End User

[Rainbird98]

How is it going to be confused, it features the same white casing, Apple logo laser-etched on the back and comes in the same 20 + 40 GB configurations. HP is also offering iPod Tattoos - printable, precut, self-adhesive wraparound stickers to conform to the shape of the iPod.

Re:Confusing to the End User

[Anonymous Coward]

This gives HP distribution of the most popular mp3 player out there (creating a standard), and gives Apple access to all of HP retail locations (globally).

Re:Confusing to the End User

[Biotech9]

I'm not quite sure I see the point of this, besides throwing HP a bone in return for having iTunes pre-installed on their machines.

You don't see the point? Then let me show you...

HP is the second largest PC supplier in the US.Apple, is not. I can gaurantee you Apple will ship more ipods in the next 6 months with HPs platform to sell from than they have for the last year. HP has a market reach that is far in excess of Apples, and is an entirely different demograph. Apples target market of young fashion nerds with fat wallets already know about or have ipods, but HP can sell ipods to people that wouldn't be normally reading /. or apple.com.

With this and Microsofts entrance into music sales, it'll be an interesting few months running up to Christmas.

Re:Confusing to the End User

[Moofie]

I just don't believe that's true. If you don't know what an iPod is, I'm not sure that seeing one in the HP catalog is going to make it more attractive.

I mean, it's been on the cover of Time. How many Dell or HP products have done that?

As far as "Joe Six Pack" is concerned, the iPod IS the MP3 player to own. How is HP's "platform" going to help them sell more?

Particularly since the price is the same?

Re:Confusing to the End User

[Robocrap]

It's nice having a powerhouse like HP hawking your products, but I think the iPod doesn't stand to gain much in terms of sales. The iPod is already available at almost every large brick and mortar electronics retailer, as well as via dozens of online stores. Consumers know about the iPod as well - Apple has a tremendous brand and the iPod is considered by some a modern cultural icon - something that does not happen without some serious brand saturation. If anything, it is HP that stands to gain a spike in sales out of this relationship given that they're in the process of re-inventing themselves and need a reason for people to be intrigued by them - sort of like when car manufactures design fantastic-looking cars to draw people into the showroom to see the rest of the product line.

Re:Confusing to the End User

[Robocrap]

The back has an Apple logo with an HP beneath it: http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image /7/0,1311,sz=1&i=79015,00.jpg

Re:Confusing to the End User

[goates]

"How is HP's "platform" going to help them sell more?"

Maybe they'll include them in bundles with their computers that "Joe Six PAck" will buy. Maybe they'll be on the shelf next to the HP computers and not over in the Apple section, which as everyone knows, is where the overpriced, incompatible computers are. It may not help that much, but I really doubt this will hurt Apple's iPod sales the way the Mac clones cannibalized Apple's Mac sales.

Re:Confusing to the End User

[Moofie]

That presupposes that there exist a large number of people who either don't know what an iPod is, or else don't know how to get one. I simply don't believe that's true.

People don't buy $400 music players because they trip across them at a retail storefront.

Re:Confusing to the End User

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the need to release an iPod with an HP logo on it?

There is likely no physical HP logo. It is very likely physically exactly the same thing. Maybe a different ROM and splash screen, definately different packaging. But the units are likely exactly the same.

knows full well that the iPod was designed/manufactured by Apple.

You seem to be labouring under the pretense that Apple manufactures anything anymore. Laptops. nope. New iMacs nope. iPod nope.

So what is the difference between Apple going to a factory and telling them to put 500K iPods in Apple boxes and 500K iPods in HPs boxes versus put 750K iPods in Apple boxes??? Other than likely cheaper per unit price that Apple has to pay that is?

Re:Confusing to the End User

[Blackice912]

>> Apples target market of young fashion nerds with fat wallets

Or poor nerds with large credit cards (talking about myself here).

Re:Confusing to the End User

[Anonymous Coward]

250k iPods : )

no real modification ?

[selderrr]

Will it play unreal then ?????

On a more serious note (to gove moderators a headsplitting choice between funny & insightfull), i though there were no modifications at all : it even has the Apple logo instead of an HP one... A true homerun for apple

Re:no real modification ?

[Anonymous Coward]

It has both logos... and it comes with that short guy who yells "The plane, the plane!"

Re:no real modification ?

[Phroggy]

it even has the Apple logo instead of an HP one

It has an HP logo next to the Apple logo.

Dell

[lastninja]

Is this really different from when Dell sold Ipods two years ago? I thought that Apple was going to license the Ipod to HP, now it looks like they have made HP into "just another reseller".

Re:Dell

[Anonymous Coward]

Dell did what? Are you sure you're not just making that up?

Re:Dell

[reiggin]

It's very true. Dell sold them through their online store. It was the original first gen iPod. They didn't market it heavy, though. I think it was mainly due to their development of their own player. It was before the iPods really took off with the second generation models.

Diamond and gold encrusted Ipod

[Confused Iconoclast]

I saw something on TV today where HP was giving rap star P.Doodly an HP ipod that was gold inlaid and had inset diamonds.

Re:Diamond and gold encrusted Ipod

[Anonymous Coward]

P. Dingley was asked if he is going to use his HP iPod and he replied: "No, it does not go well with the bling I normally wear and to tell you the truth it looks too much like my garage door opener, so I don't want to spend another afternoon trying to get the damned door open like the last time when I got that stupid pager."

The Obvious Advantage,

[foshizzlemynizzle]

While all the parents make great points of "WHY" or "WHY NOT". I would like to add that HP may not make any money, or even promote their company logo. BUT, they have made a very advantageous business partnership. This opens up a whole new market for HP, who traditionally had only been involved in office oriented products. This allows them to branch off into the "everything for your digital lifestyle" market. Plus, they now have the prestige of distributing some great hardware. They esentially trying to become the Apple of the PC world.

Donuts, is there anything they can't do?

Retail Channels

[FigWig]

HP has lots of retail agreements, so this will get the iPod on to even more store shelves. Costco will carry them for example.

Re:Retail Channels

[Moofie]

I'd be pretty surprised if production could be ramped up sufficiently to feed Costco's retail fronts.

In other words, don't hold your breath.

Re:Retail Channels

[huchida]

Costco will carry them for example.

I don't believe it. Costco doesn't carry a wide line of HP products, just a few ready-made systems and a small variety of peripherals. Just because they deal with HP doesn't mean they'll carry the iPod.

I also can't imagine Costco would sell the iPod unless they could knock at least fifty bucks off the price. I'm not sure Apple would go for that, either.

But hey I could be wrong. Are you just guessing or do you have inside information?

Re:Retail Channels

[357_Magnum]

Well after some thinking about this. How does Costco give such deep discounts?

They have membership fees that allow them to make up some of the loss they may get from selling a product at a discount to undercut other companies. While they also get cheaper prices from companies since they buy in such huge bulk and then the customer buys in bulk as well, their revenue from members is the same. If some customers don't even come into a Costco that month then they made money from that customer and sold nothing at a loss to that person. Therefore they can absorb a loss from another customer much easier. This is also not taking into account that some products have higher profit margins.

Re:Retail Channels

[rootofevil]

they are on the costo website right now, albeit with a stunningly huge 0$ discount.

HP Printable Tattoos for iPod

[Anonymous Froward]

No it's not joke. Here're relevant press releases and their "HP Tattoos" gallery:
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/ 2004/04082 7a.html
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_k its/2004/ digitalexplaunch/fs_ipod.pdf
http://h10049.www1.h p.com/music/us/en/tattoos.html

<homer>

[Anonymous Coward]

mmmh.... iPod trees....

has anyone thought...

[Bin_jammin]

perhaps the reason that apple went along with this is that they've finally maxed out their assembly lines, and the HiPod will be able to take up the slack. Considering the rapid growth of sales for apple, christmas season is likely to burn out their stock rapidly. If these are truly clones, made by HP under license, they should be able to take up the slack.

This could be good.

[MoOsEb0y]

After all, isn't competition good for the consumer? Also, I can't imagine Apple allowing an iPod clone without at least getting a commission.

Re:This could be good.

[jonasw]

For the Nth time, this isn't a clone. This IS an iPod, just with an HP logo instead of an Apple logo.

There is one big differnce with the HP iPod

[supervillain]

You will be able to print your own skin for the ipod. I think its funny that people would normaly download skins for their software mp3 players like winamp. Now you will be downloading and printing new skins for your hardware mp3 player.

Re:There is one big differnce with the HP iPod

[Phroggy]

You will be able to print your own skin for the ipod. I think its funny that people would normaly download skins for their software mp3 players like winamp. Now you will be downloading and printing new skins for your hardware mp3 player.

I wonder if anyone will print an iPod skin that looks like the default WinAmp skin....

Re:There is one big differnce with the HP iPod

[nmk]

That's not really a difference since those same skins can be used with the regular iPod. Like others have mentioned before, this will allow Apple to target a completely new demographic. HP has a massive distribution channel which will now be used to push the iPod (Wal-Mart now carries the iPod).

As far as HP is concerned, this allows them to sell a bundled solution. Music copying has become a major part of peoples computer using experience now. It also allows them to push their new printer, since it is specially set up to print iPod theme stickers (They also supply custom cut stickers to print the themes on). You never know, HP could have just started something big with these new themes.

because apples are for n00bs

[Anonymous Coward]

did you ever stop to think that some people think that apple is for losers who can't figure out how to use their computer?

Re:because apples are for n00bs

[Anonymous Coward]

Right... like all these people!

http://www.apple.com/pro/

Not the Same at All!

[Anonymous Coward]

"essentially a clone of the current design, with no real modification"

But with the HP one, you can, like, print out stickers and put them on the front. Stickers, man! I think I will put flame stickers on mine, so that the firewire works faster.

Re:Not the Same at All!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm putting a sticker on mine that says, "Z-type."

It's gonna send out files so fast that they end up traveling back in time, causing a paradox and erasing your mom!

radioshack

[b0m8ad1l]

We're getting them in at RadioShack later this month

Re:radioshack

[XO]

yes, yes, i can't wait

Dont beat up on HP..Its good for us..

[cOdEgUru]

Yeah, its the same thing. No question.

But think of it, HP will use resellers such as Staples, Officemax, Office Depot and other outlets which gives us a reason to use those 30$ off of 150$ coupons and other 10/20% Off coupons to buy these expensive players. For people who may balk at the 300$ price, cutting it down to 250$ sometimes is all the reason for them to spend the moolah. So repeat after me, its good for the consumers. who gives a flying fuck about whether HP had innovated or not?

Re:Dont beat up on HP..Its good for us..

[Anonymous Coward]

But think of it, HP will use resellers such as Staples, Officemax, Office Depot and other outlets which gives us a reason to use those 30$ off of 150$ coupons and other 10/20% Off coupons to buy these expensive players.

Don't count on it. Lots of times I've gotten ad circulars with coupons like those, and always in the small print somewhere is something like "Discount does not apply to Apple computers" if the store in question carries Apple stuff. Most of the time it also lists the other choicest stuff that would fly off the shelves if people could use those coupons to chop the price a bit.

Re:Dont beat up on HP..Its good for us..

[Anonymous Coward]

Why wouldn't you use one of those coupons to buy an Apple IPod instead?

Adding one more middleman in the chain doesn't reduce the cost to the end user.

Re:Dont beat up on HP..Its good for us..

[Anonymous Coward]

" Why wouldn't you use one of those coupons to buy an Apple IPod instead?"

Because my Staples does not have an iPod or any other Apple products. It does have HP everything from printers to mice to computers to scanners and now HP branded iPods. Best of all they have nice discounts too and price matching to boot.

"Adding one more middleman in the chain doesn't reduce the cost to the end user."

Actually it can reduce the total cost consumers pay in many ways. Take cars and specialization of components that are mass produced and get economies of scale. Without competing middle men and lots of them what are the chances my price will be higher? Then there is the obvious more retailers are better than less because they may compete on price, service location etc. If it costs me less to drive/walk over to my local Staples I just saved shipping. Seriously Apple made a good descision, that was necessary to compete with Sony which is still clobbering them on digital music players sold.* They aren't out of the woods yet, but hey at least they are trying.

*Interesting tid bit: More pre-recorded _full albums_ have been sold in MiniDisc format than _individual songs_ given away and sold in the Apple iTunes Store. When was the last time you saw a pre-recorded MiniDisc? Scary eh? The whole 60:1 MiniDisc to iPod sales penetration is even scarrier and when you add HiMD and new cheaper MD players to the mix plus a Sony Music online store, it gets even worse for Apple as far as music players and song sales go. Sony needs better competition with less onerous DRM so I applaud Apple to going for the juggler.

Re:Dont beat up on HP..Its good for us..

[Blackice912]

>> For people who may balk at the 300$ price, cutting it down to 250$ sometimes is all the reason for them to spend the moolah.

Yeah, and then you go do what I did today: Spend $320 on iPod accessories.

Re:Dont beat up on HP..Its good for us..

[cmay666]

Absolutely right. I just preordered one from buy.com using a 10% off coupon, giving me a new 40 gig iPod for $342 shipped. Plus it comes with an HP 1-year warranty instead of Apple's 90-day warranty. So $60 cheaper and 4 times the warranty is GOOD for us consumers...

link to pritable skin artical

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5839491/

Brings up an interesting question

[Slavinski]

What constitutes price fixing?

No. No they won't

[Anonymous Coward]

"Costco will carry them for example."

Not unless they get significant discounts. Costco discounts *everything*.

Uberhacker = Roland Piquepaille spam clone

[Anonymous Coward]

What reason is there to go to the Uberhacker blog other than to boost the traffic?

There is nothing original or value added to the Slashdot post, and both writeups just link to the International Herald Tribune article.

We already have one Roland Piquepaille spammer, please don't turn yourself into another person who just contributes blog spam, even if the Slashdot "editors" let it slide.

Prices DID go down a little...

[nurb432]

When Gen4 came out, they dropped the price about 100 bucks..

Doubt it goes down much further.. Will hover around that price, and each new generation will have bigger drives...

Just a guess..

Re:Prices DID go down a little...

[MasterSLATE]

Prices didn't really change - look at all the accessories removed from the 4th gens.. Some websites have done comparisons - its like a $4 difference between the 3rdgen ipod with standard accessories and 4gen ipod with seperately purchased matching accessories.

Re:Prices DID go down a little...

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get the HP version of the ipod cheaper then the apple version. I'm not talking ground breaking, but with some pre-order sales going on you can get the HP 20 gig version for 251, and the 40 gig for 340.

Re:Prices DID go down a little...

[Anonymous Coward]

Doubt it goes down much further.. Will hover around that price, and each new generation will have bigger drives...

As usual with Apple hardware, it's just out of reach of the budget of the average consumer. $150-$200 is my cut-off point for impulse buying of consumer electronics. Anything more expensive than that has to be evaluated and compared against other similar products. I've had a shopping cart on Apple's site filled with a configured Powerbook about 10 times now and each time I've had to cancel the order... they're simply overpriced compared to the competition. Why buy an iPod when there are better, cheaper alternatives out there?

Only compatible with Windows?

[mac os ken]

In HP's online store the listing for the 40GB iPod lists that it is only compatible with Windows. Check near the bottom of the listing. Are these things coming preformatted for Windows/HP computers? Hmmm...

Re:Only compatible with Windows?

[Joey Patterson]

Are these things coming preformatted for Windows/HP computers?

Well, I have a 3G Apple iPod that I originally used on my Windows PC (thus it was Windows-formatted), but I bought an iBook several months ago and have been using the iPod happily ever since, with no reformatting needed.

Thus, even if these are "Windows-formatted" iPods, they'll probably work with a Mac (and Linux) out of the box -- all one needs to do is obtain the latest version of iTunes for the Mac.

We're dealing with two hPeas from the same iPod here, folks. The only difference is the color of the box they come in and the software they come bundled with.

Re:Only compatible with Windows?

[dn15]

iPods already use the FAT32 filesystem which is why they work on both Windows and Macs. I doubt they would go out of their way to format it in NTFS or do something equally silly to make it not work with Macs.

They probably just talk about the Windows compatibilty becuase a Mac user isn't going to be browsing HP's site for iPods anyway.

Driver CD

[vurg]

I just hope the drivers are downloadable and they won't charge $15 for the driver CD.

smart move

[Anonymous Coward]

Many PC/Microsoft owners "think" anything from Apple needs to be used with an Apple to work.

HP branding makes it a more comfortable purchase, and Apple need not print "Works with Microsoft XP(tm)!" all over their boxes.

"Gee, that HP printer said 'XP Compatible' on the box, and it sorta works, so this should, too!"

Lame

[Magnus Reftel]

No wireless. Same space as a regular iPod. Lame.

Re:Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading some of the comments to that old article (and even the editor's comments in the posting itself!) makes me realize just how many "cool new things" we've had in the world of computing that are scoffed at and called useless when they're first released, only to become monumental successes later on.

What HP just told us...

[gregwbrooks]

I covered this on my marketing/communications weblog. The salient points from a marketing perspective:

HP just proved it doesn't understand basic branding: OK, so that's a pretty big smackdown to throw at a multi-billion-dollar tech giant. But consider: People buy the iPod because it's cool, it's functional and (stay with me here) because it's an iPod. If you're going to compete, you need to be different/better/unique, you need to have a dramatically lower price point, you need to have a better channel or you need to have God on your side. HP has demonstrated none of these things.

HP just told us it doesn't listen to its customers. I challenge anyone in HP's marketing organization to produce research indicating existing customers would buy an hPod (my name for it -- HP can send me a royalty check) over the existing Apple product based on exact functionality. My guess is the research doesn't exist.

Finally, HP is broadcasting the message that many of their strongest brand attributes are gone. No, I don't expect Joe Consumer to make a statement like that -- but I do expect him/her to pick up on it subtly. HP used to be about great, long-lasting products that led in their categories (printers, anyone?) both in terms of sales and innovation. They still do some innovation, but increasingly HP is trying to be all things to all people, and it's not working out too well. The clearest branding message from the hPod? That HP is a follower, not a leader.

Re:What HP just told us...

[adamh526]

I disagree.

HP will also preinstall Apple's ITunes jukebox software on its consumer PCs and notebook systems. The company will add a desktop icon pointing customers to the ITunes online music store, HP says in a statement released Thursday."

This is obviously good for both companies. It makes it much easier for Joe Consumer to access the iTMS when he buys a PC bundled with an iPod. He's not familiar with Apple so he didn't even consider an iMac or a G5, but he HAS heard of the iPod and sees he can get a system "configured" for iPod use from HP. This is good for HP and helps define them as the home entertainment pc solution.

Besides the obvious, this is good for Apple because after Joe Consumer becomes familiar enough with the Apple brand, he may consider Apple when it is time to purchase his next computer.

As for HP's marketing tactics, it has become clear that they care more about the home entertainment market than they do about being innovators and I don't this particular move is the first sign of that. This will benefit both Apple and HP, however, it seems likely that Apple will be the real winner in the end.

Re:What HP just told us...

[naden]

I'm a little bit dissapointed in you Greg .. your blog is generally pretty good, I don't know why your so off with this post.

HP just proved it does understand basic branding.You just showed you don't understand basic sales/marketing. Ever heard of demographics? Or channels? HP has a) completely different set of users .. and b) has completely different channels to Apple. So explain why HP isnt going to make a little bit of money out of this deal and increase their brand by having the coolest/best music solution associated with it ?

HP just told us it does listen to its customers. Sorry the onus is on you to produce research showing existing HP customers wouldn't buy an iPod. Remember HP customers are in a different demographic to current iPod buyers. They are generally people for whom price is a huge factor, don't have as much of a passion for computers and generally are normal, everyday folk. They won't know what an iPod is, but they will happy to pay a little extra if one is bundled with the new HP computer. All HP cares about is bundling something good so THEIR brand doesn't decrease in value. And all HP users care about is having their computing solution work well for them. iPod+iTunes+HP computers seems like a good fit to me.

Finally, HP is broadcasting the message that it is intelligent enough not to try to compete in every market. Remember HP is still mainly a printing+imaging company. Now they are trying to get into consumer electronics. Unfortunately they DON'T have a brand within this market place. Most people would not be receptive to the idea of ditching their Sony TV and buying a HP one. So reselling iPod+iTunes is a very smart move as it is clearly the best solution out there and will help link the HP name to quality, easy of use and elegance within the consumer electronics space. This will in turn help them sell more TVs or whatever Carly comes up with during Big Bang 3.

The clearest branding message from the hPod? That HP IS the solutions leader and companies like Dell will be the followers as their MP3 players hopelessly fail againt the iPod+iTunes.

Re:What HP just told us...

[gregwbrooks]

You know, call me a softie for the almost-a-compliment on my weblog, but I felt compelled to respond -- not because I utterly disagree, but because you make some very valid points.

I think you're essentially right that HP is going to make money off the deal and that it *does* mean exposure for them in a way they haven't seen before. In that sense, I take your point that there's a method to their madness.

What I don't get is their to-market strategy and price point. If they're going to bundle and discount, you're right -- that's smart. But I still don't think there's a huge market for an iPod clone, at the same price point, from HP as a standalone item. It'll be interesting to see if they think so, too.

One of the most interesting things you brought up is the comparison to Dell -- a company (in)famous for understanding that you don't have to be an innovator to make tons of money. Somewhere in the Big Dell Warehouse of Market Knowledge, they've done their best to figure out all the hardware markets that are near (but not quite at) commoditization; that's the point at which they traditionally jump in.

You can bet iTunes will keep getting better (and Apple will keep being picky about its licensing) because that's a value-added that can keep hardware prices up for a long time.

Now, give me permission to reprint your rebuttal on my webblog, dammit. ;)

Not Just A Clone....

[DeusOTdeuS]

This is Apple's attempt to capture even more of the MP3 player FOR PC market. The problem with the iPod as is, is that it is designed for the Mac first then slightly modified for the PC. I for one never bought an iPod because it has to run through shit software to manage your songs, software that at its best was flaky. MP3 Players that are originally designed for the PC are made to for the most part be like external hard drive, just drag and drop files, no 3rd party software to use. The HP iPod will use only USB 2.0 not firewire (one more thing that PC users dont always have) and will work with HP's software, not jukebox. HP's software will make it more PC friendly and more like the interaction between PC and MP3 player that other "for PC" MP3 players have. Not only all that but many people that aren't tech savvy dont know that the iPod works for PC. And even if they do, they get told by store employees that it doesn't work well with a PC. Having HP's name on it will make it more recognizable as a "for PC" product, and stop people from saying "I would like a iPod, but I dont have a Mac." Now they can see from just the name that it will work with their PC. Its nothing really that new, but it will allow Apple to sell their iPods to people that require PC name recognition.

Re:Not Just A Clone....

[Anonymous Coward]

I know, I know, I'm bringing actual facts to a /. discussion, but:

The iPod has used iTunes on both Windows and Mac for a long while now. Nobody's stuck with the sucktastic MusicMatch Jukebox (except maybe Dell DJ users). HP's iPods and computers are shipping with iTunes, not "HP's software."

Similarly, USB 2.0 support isn't new. Syncing via USB 2.0 has been supported for, what, three generations of iPod now? And the current model adds the ability to charge via USB 2.0.

Re:Not Just A Clone....

[cmay666]

"The HP iPod will use only USB 2.0 not firewire"

No - the HP iPods are identical in every way (including firewire) except they have an additional HP brandmark below the Apple brandmark, and have 4 times the warranty (1 year vs. 90 days) that Apple offers. Look:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=90139042 &loc=111&sp=1

No, it's astroturfing

[Anonymous Coward]

Notice one of the only comments on the entire site was an 'FP from Slashdot.'

Listen up people; there are alternatives!!

[wfberg]

Now, while the iPod is kinda cool for being white when everything else is black, grey and silver, and it's kinda cool for being early-ish on the scene with a small form factor the iPod is not the only MP3 player out there..

There are many, many alternatives that are cheaper, also look cool and have way better functionality than the iPod. I mean, forcing you to use iTunes to load music on it, or else it won't play? What's that all about? Just about every other MP3 player (ok, the creative ones suck in that way too) let's you use it as an USB Mass Storage device, no drivers, no software, and it will play any MP3 you put on there.. Nice and simple!

I have an ancient, big, archos player, and it even has an open source (the device was reverse engineered by some geeks) operating system (rockbox). How cool is that? And it takes regular NiMH batteries in case the ones provided with it crap out..

And get this, if you buy argos, creative, iRiver, or any other brand -- You're not contractually required to give Steve Jobs a rim-job..

Re:Listen up people; there are alternatives!!

[Hollins]

and it will play any MP3 you put on there

iPods play mp3s

Certainly there are alternatives to the iPod that will play more formats and give you more storage; however, there are none with nearly as effective an interface. The iPod makes a 3000 song collection manageable on a handheld device. The Archos and iRiver certainly don't accomplish this.

BTW, I'll trade a gmail invite for a freeipods referral.

Re:Listen up people; there are alternatives!!

[KingOfBLASH]

Just about every other MP3 player (ok, the creative ones suck in that way too) let's you use it as an USB Mass Storage device, no drivers, no software, and it will play any MP3 you put on there.. Nice and simple!

Point of Information: I have a Creative Nomad MuVo, and I can use it as a USB pen drive, it's pretty small, and pretty sweet. (And it is the size of a USB pen drive, which is the coolest part. My biggest complaint? It lacks an LCD screen)

Re:Listen up people; there are alternatives!!

[iBran]

Regarding software for the iPod... although iTunes is the only software officially supported by Apple, there are several other programs (free/shareware) like Anapod Explorer, Ephpod, XPlay, and even RealPlayer that will transfer and manage your iPod's music collection.

As another poster points out, the iPod WILL play any MP3 you put on there. It will also play MPEG-4/AAC, which IS a standard format, licensed from Dolby. It will even play plain-old WAV files, too. The iPod doesn't support Windows Media files, but if you're using iTunes, WMA files will automatically be converted to MP3 or AAC when you import them to your library.

Maybe you're not familiar with Audible, which is an online store for Audiobooks. Audible has its own DRM-protected format which only a few portable players support, one of which is the iPod.

As far as pricing is concerned, the iPod is probably the most expensive in terms of $$/gigabyte, but not by much. Last time I checked, other 20GB players were in the $250-300 range, too. (A 20GB iPod sells for $299 or less)

Hey, it's great you like your big old Archos jukebox. But, I wanted a portable music player that was small and light enough to strap to my arm while I go out bicycling and to the gym. And I wanted one that would play Audible's audiobooks, too. The iPod was my only choice.

I'll admit, my biggest frustration with my iPod is with the software; I wish I could just plug it in and drag-and-drop my music via Windows Explorer. But it's a pretty minor complaint; Aside from being a memory hog, iTunes really is a great media player and organizer. And I still feel that the iPod is the best MP3 player for me.

Re:Listen up people; there are alternatives!!

[Anonymous Coward]

That is total bullshit and FUD. Stop trolling idiot.

With iPod you can use ANY download store that sells MP3s.
Using your own words: "no drivers, no software, and it will play any MP3 you put on there.. Nice and simple!"

Even tracks from that Russian site that sells music by MBs.

What a troll.

There are differences between HP and Apple iPod

[Hellad]

The differences are in the packaging and the material that comes with the iPod itself. The main differences are the instructions are going to be written for the WIndows user and will include one of those fold out "getting started" posters. HP felt that the Windows user needed a different sort of help with the iPod than the Mac mindset inherent in the current Apple instructions...

HP worse than you think on this...

[hirschma]

Compaq _invented_ the hard drive MP3 player. They had their first prototypes in 1997-8, I think. Their marketing folks decided that no one would want one, and they licensed the design off to a Korean company in 1999. You can read about it here and here.

I got mine in early 1999, unit #4. It still does things that the iPod doesn't do, like gapless MP3 playback. It has a superior interface, battery life and sound quality. A shrunken version with an attractive design would have kicked ass.

At any rate, HP bought Compaq, which means that they actually own patents covering almost every aspect of the iPod.

So what does the New HP do? They license the iPod from Apple. Yup, pay Apple for the IP that they own. I'm guessing that the clever MBAs running the company never decided to do a simple patent search.

Thus, HP wins the Dumbest Big Company Ever award. HP's stupidity regarding this matter has been confirmed to me by former employees who will remain nameless.

Jonathan

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[znu]

I don't think you really understand why Apple sells so many iPods. It's not because it's the best music player in the world, although when all factors are considered it might be. It's because Apple has managed to build an extremely valuable brand. People don't want a music players with the capabilities of the iPod. They want iPods. They want to be seen walking around with those little white earbuds -- which, incidentally, might be part of the reason HP decided to ditch the HP-branded blue iPods we saw when this deal was announced.

Then there's the iTunes Music Store. Could HP duplicate the technology behind that? Sure. Could HP make the same deals that Apple has with record labels? Maybe, maybe not. HP hasn't got Steve Jobs to capture record company execs under a Reality Distortion Field, and HP hasn't got nearly as much credibility as Apple in the music industry, because it isn't HP's computers that are sitting on the desks of most professional musicians. Even if HP could negotiate deals to get as much content as Apple has managed to get under similar licensing terms, it would probably take many months. And a lot of independent labels would probably just ignore them, because, again, they just haven't got Apple's image.

All in all, it's really pretty easy to see why HP would rather resell the iPod (presumably on very favorable terms, in exchange for bundling iTunes) than compete with it. Just think of how many 'iPod killers' have come and gone without putting a dent in the iPod's meteoric rise.

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[Anonymous Coward]

"So what does the New HP do? They license the iPod from Apple. Yup, pay Apple for the IP that they own."

Wow.

Bitter and Stupid, what a sad combo.

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Trust me, Carly Fiorina has her own reality distortion field. She managed to convince everyone that merging with compaq was a good thing, after all.

Posted annonymously as I am an HP employee.

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[hirschma]

Nope, I don't think you understand the concept of defining a market. Apple's brand hasn't worked the same magic for home computers, now has it? But they certainly dominate the digital music scene, no argument there. I'd add that this wouldn't have happened if the iPod was bad. Look as Sony's product - can't get any traction at all, despite Sony's branding and marketing prowess.

Fact is that HP/Compaq had product _years_ before Apple did, but they totally blew it. They could have defined this market to be, say, purple MP3 players with purple buds. But no - they had to ship a very very ugly unit through a no-name proxy.

So, I stick to my guns: HP/Compaq blew a great opportunity, ironic since HP is trying to get into the consumer electronics space, and are now owned by folks that should be paying them royalties.

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're clueless, and you've made up your mind to stay that way.

Have fun!

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[goates]

Do you really tink that Apple would be stupid enough to design, build and sell a product that someone else has the patents to without paying royalties? Maybe Apple is paying them royalties, and then again maybe Apple found out how to get around them. Maybe if you could list the patents and Apple's violations, your position would make more sense.

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[the_2nd_coming]

yeah, that explains why Apple has so little mindshare.

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[legirons]

"the iPod's meteoric rise"

which direction would that be?

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[Halfbaked Plan]

It's because Apple has managed to build an extremely valuable brand. People don't want a music players with the capabilities of the iPod. They want iPods.

Whoah! You'll suck down anything Jobs exudes, eh?

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[Anonymous Coward]

So this whole 'iPod Thing' is just some poor delusion that people like you have to put up with?

How sad.

All those poor suckers out there brainwashed by that evil genius Steve Jobs! If only you could save them!

Help them Halfbaked Plan, you're their only hope!

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[DAldredge]

This is what happens when you have a medieval history major running the company.

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have read the PJB patent and I'm not so sure it applies to the iPod.

The patent in question is "typical" in that it claims a number of features that together define a unique product. Any one feature is not unique and, in fact, many other patents are referenced as prior art for specific claims.

The two features which make the PJB most unique are its "table of contents" (a crude, but quite useful for audio, file system similar to that of an audio CD) and the circular buffer management system. It is the combination of these features that allow gapless play of MP3 streams.

You could probably argue that if the iPod were to use a "table of contents" file system and the PJB style buffer management in order to implement gapless play, this might violate the PJB patent. However, the iPod does not have a file system anything like the PJB. In fact, the iPod uses a traditional file system combined with a database which is a superior approach from the UI standpoint. On the other hand, the iPod does not have gapless play which is clearly inferior from the audio standpoint.

There are other MP3 players that have gapless play and, interestingly enough, they go about implementing it different than the PJB. As an example, the Rio product scans the start and end of files for silence (padding) within the MPEG frames and removes this on the fly resulting in gapless play. Another way to do this - "cheat" and include some extra information with the stream as to how many samples to remove from the start or end of an MPEG file to account for coding delay and frame padding.

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you mean, "convince 51% of shareholders."

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[Anonymous Coward]

It has a superior interface, battery life and sound quality.

No offense, but could this be a skewed opinion based on how long you've had your Compaq MP3 player? Having a "superior" interface in this context is entirely a personal opinion, and it makes sense that you would prefer an interface you've spent five years using to another, less familiar one. As far as sound quality goes, I would bet that either you're talking about the iPod's default headphones (which no one forces you to use), or the "superior sound quality" is a product of your imagination.

In any case, the reason HP isn't coming up with their own iPod knockoff is that they know that theirs would end up significantly worse unless they copied the iPod so closely that their patent portfolio wouldn't save them. Of course the Apple chic is also important: as others have mentioned, people want an iPod, not just an MP3 player.

Mike

Re:HP worse than you think on this...

[adrianbaugh]

I have an iPod and generally love it, but those white earbuds are awful. I threw them out nearly straight away; it's much nicer listening to your iPod through a pair of decent Sennheisers.

But...

[2nd Post!]

What if you are in love with iTunes?

What if you are in love with the interface?

What if you like that the iPod is both a USB mass storage device and a Firewire mass storage device you can install an OS and boot off of?

Didn't you know that the iPod can play any MP3 you put on it?

What if you want a smaller mp3 player?

Of course if you care about none of those things, then the iPod isn't for you. But if you want:
Smaller
Firewire/USB storage
iTunes
Simple interface

What choice do you have but an iPod?

Re:But...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't rationalize your deep seated need to visit your friend Steve 'Rim' Jobs.

Re:But...

[khrtt]

..what if you are a PC user? Then you probably don't know what FireWire is. And you haven't had the pleasure of being acquainted with iTunes either. And a simple interface is not that hard to find. I would say, for anyone with a recent cellphone the click-wheel is less intuitive than a 4-button joystick-like thingy that most other players use. Now I haven't seen a smaller player than iPod, but there are some that are not too much bigger (look for HDD120).

So why do PC users want iPods? I have a theory here. I think it must be the white headphones that allow them to mimic the much cooler mac users. In fact, I know a looser who got a pair of white headphones for his CD player just to look like he had an iPod in his pocket.

Re:But...

[2nd Post!]

LOL, maybe you're right. I bought it because it works so well :)

I might be attributing more reason to others because of it.

It's a clone alright...

[teamhasnoi]

It is essentially a clone of the current design, with no real modification."

Are you talking about the iPod or uberHacker.com?

Apple is dead... HP is selling the iPod

[beamz]

I knew it!!! HP bought Apple, I knew this was going to happen all along based on information previously on slashdot... I can't believe it took this long, BSD only took a year to die...

Oh crap, I didn't rtfa. Oops.

Well, considering that I just ordered one

[Anonymous Coward]

earlier this week from Costco, it's not that far-fetched. Sure, you're probably thinking in terms of brick and mortar retail stock, but Costco only offers higher-end MP3 players online. The only MP3 players that reach the brick and mortar stores are cheap cd-based MP3 players.

Meantime...

[goMac2500]

A new wave of panic is sweeping RealNetworks.

Blow it out your ass, you smug fuck!!

[Scudsucker]

Wow, could you have been more patronizing in your post, or did you think you were talking to a bunch of 4 year olds? All of your observations that you think are so clever, like "the iPod is not the only MP3 player out there", could have been told to you by any kid who goes to third grade. On a short bus.

and have way better functionality than the iPod

Um, no. More (generally useless) features? Sure. Better functionality as an MP3 player? No.

I mean, forcing you to use iTunes to load music on it, or else it won't play? What's that all about? Just about every other MP3 player (ok, the creative ones suck in that way too) let's you use it as an USB Mass Storage device, no drivers, no software, and it will play any MP3 you put on there.. Nice and simple!

No its not simple, its a god damn pain in the ass to use regular file system transfers. You can start a transfer in iTunes, drag more songs to your iPod and it will add the new songs to the transfer queue. With regular file transfers, you either have multiple copies running at once, or you wait till one file transfer is over before you start the next one. And searching for songs on an iPod is fast and easy because it has a database of the songs that are on it. With your crab ass system, your player is going to have to rebuild the database on its own, or make do without one...and be slow, slow slow.

People who buy iPods are perfectly aware that there are other options out there. iRiver (iCant come up with my own iNaming scheme) and Sony are about the only other players out there in the size/capacity segment that Apple is in. Sony's player sucks unless you love Sony's format (the only one that will play on it), and the iRiver is about the same price with a couple of neat but mostly novelty features. Now this may come as a shock to you, but many well informed consumers consider the iPod to be the better buy. It has a great interface, great software, doesn't try to be a jack-of-all-trades, and it has a Firewire interface so you can use it as a boot device.

And get this, if you buy argos, creative, iRiver, or any other brand -- You're not contractually required to give Steve Jobs a rim-job..

Uh huh. It sounds like you need one...from those flesh eating beetles from The Mummy.

Re:Blow it out your ass, you smug fuck!!

[DAldredge]

Judging by most of the people that mod in apple related /. stories, yes you are a bunch of 4 year olds.

Hell, I have been moded down for saying the g5 Imac was delayed due to supply troubles...

Re:Blow it out your ass, you smug fuck!!

[Anonymous Coward]

AND,

you do not need iTMS. Any store selling MP3 plays just fine with iPod.

Re:Blow it out your ass, you smug fuck!!

[faaaz]

You're being pretty subjective there. Then again, you're modded funny.

I am a Mac user. I recently bought av iRiver. Why not an iPod? Because I weighed them against each other and decided the iRiver was the better choice because of the following.

- The iRiver supports Ogg Vorbis.
- The iRiver has better battery life.
- The iRiver _can_ play directly from the file system.

You're telling me in your post that these are "generally useless" features. To me they are not. That's why I didn't buy an iPod.

"No its not simple, its a god damn pain in the ass to use regular file system transfers."

To you maybe. To me it's the other way around. You're writing like it's fact, when it really is preference.

Re:Blow it out your ass, you smug fuck!!

[Scudsucker]

The iRiver supports Ogg Vorbis.

Doesn't support AAC. Get one, loose a bigger one.

The iRiver has better battery life.

Which is good.

"No its not simple, its a god damn pain in the ass to use regular file system transfers."

To you maybe. To me it's the other way around. You're writing like it's fact, when it really is preference.

But it *is* a fact, which I will prove to you now. :) The only reason to buy an iRiver or an iPod is if you have a sizeable collection, or else you'd get a smaller, cheaper flash player. And if you have a sizeable collection, you're going to want transfer queing, which you wont get using Explorer or the Finder. Otherwize you are going to have to wait until one transfer is done before starting the next, or start a new one and watch your transfer speed go to hell. So if you're transfering a few gigs of songs, you're either going to be doing lots of babysitting or lots of waiting, or both. Then there's the speed advantage of being able to search for songs in iTunes rather than browsing the filesystem (which wont help you with id3 tags) and having the database on the iPod for faster searching.

I can think of only two instances where using regular file transfers would be an advantage: if you want to put a song on your player without adding it to the iTunes library, or if you want to get a song off a friend's computer who doesn't have iTunes.

Re:Blow it out your ass, you smug fuck!!

[faaaz]

The iRiver also has a database you know...

The "only two instances" you mention are pretty big ones.

I despise the fact that you _have_ to use iTunes (or 3rd party soft) in order to operate the iPod. I absolutely loathe the fact. I hate it. I hate apple for it. I make it pretty clear that I'm not a fan. I hate to explain myself each and every time. The iPod requires iTunes. iTunes is only available on OSX and Windows. If I want to use the iPod on FC2 for example, I have to use some alternative software. Granted, if I want to use the database function on my iRiver, I do to, but I can still operate the unit fine without a database.

And what the hell is wrong with the file system? I can queue transfers just fine. There's software for that. My collection is larger than 20GB anyway, so I'm going to have to choose what to put on the player, I'd have to do that in iTunes too.

Re:Blow it out your ass, you smug fuck!!

[Scudsucker]

The iRiver also has a database you know...

One that I don't want it to have to update by itself if I decide to put 3 gigs of Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd on it. iTunes would already have the id3 tags.

And it seems relatively bizzare to me that someone who uses Linux and software to enable file transfer queing would suddenly take a principled stance on not using 3rd party software for an iPod.

you are wrong...

[eshefer]

they just PROVED THEY UNDERSTAND BRANDING...

the original plan was to call the device "HP music player" or something along thouse lines. they planed to have a differant color scheem (blue) and they pland to etch the HP logo instead of the apple.

they changed the plan. becoase, aparantly, they arn't goofballs afterall.

exuse me?! what?! are you saying what I think you are saying?!?!

are you saying that apple has a better channel then HP?

cause if you are saying this, you, my friend, live in a different world to the one that I'm living in...

assuming that you are right with regard to the local US market (which I seriously doubt)..

apple's visibility where I live (israel) is close to nonexistant. this is changing becoase of the ipod a bit, I agree, but comeon... HP and compaq are EVERYWHERE.

HP has come a long way

[sillivalley]

Wow, HP sure has come a long way under Carly!

The "old" HP would have announced its iPod as something like the "HP i3481A Portable Compressed Media Reproducer."

But Carly has style! A big, flashy show in Miami introducing sexy products ... uh, other companies' products.

Look at the HP cornerstone -- "Invent!" -- other companies' products.

But think of all the hPods they're going to sell! Uh, and they get all of them from Apple, along with iTunes.

But look at what Carly has done for HP's share value! Uh, well, she's building momentum... With other companies' procducts.

Ignore all that -- I'm still glad Carly is running HP -- and not my company!

Why not is because no one will buy them

[Ars-Fartsica]

No one will buy these, they stink of lameness. Seriously, the cool factor isn't zero on these, its actually negative...it s like the kid wearing the knockoff sneakers at school - he would have actually been better off not trying than going with the ripoff brand.

Re:Why not is because no one will buy them

[Halfbaked Plan]

WTF??

In case you're wondering, this isn't a site for the kind of people who worried about what brand of sneakers they wore in school.

I mean, jebus cripes.

Re:Why not is because no one will buy them

[MightyYar]

No, but it is a site for people who's religious affiliation is secondary to what kind of operating system they use.

People are all the same - mall chicks and geeks both care about outward appearance, just about different items.

Wrong, most HP sales go to big biz

[Ars-Fartsica]

HP does sell a lot of PCs - to big business. Not one of these will go out the door with an iPod in the box. No consumer will touch it - it stinks of uncool.

Re:Wrong, most HP sales go to big biz

[Halfbaked Plan]

HP has sales channels into retail markets that 'stink of uncool,' meaning places where regular people spend money. Apple has limited exposure in said markets.

Not competition

[Ars-Fartsica]

HP will sell them at the exact specs and the excat prices as Apple, and this will not be negotiable.

What accessories were lost?

[nurb432]

My Gen4 came with charger, and 2 cables.. ( one usb, one firewire )..

Not saying you are wrong, just wondering what i missed out on...

Still waiting on a clear sleve for it.. rahter not get one with the extra holes.

Re:What accessories were lost?

[beerits]

The cradle and remote control.

Re:What accessories were lost?

[atheken]

the 40GB comes with a holster and a dock. The "price drop" didn't really happen, people just got more capacity for their money.

Re:What accessories were lost?

[MasterSLATE]

well, you gained the USB cable (i believe) and you lost a cradle, case (holster as mentioned below) and a 'remote' control

Re:Less profit for Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Holly shit are you fucked in the head.

It's funny how stupid and insane Apple's domination of the online/portable music market makes people.

xserves next?

[philge]

It would be nice if HP started seling xserves raids etc with osxserver. Not a chance really but HP would make a good partner for Apple if wants to get into the enterprise (if it's worth it)

should be called iphod

[philge]

read above

Sell more PC-based iPods

[harvey_peterson]

I've seen the HP commercials on TV now and, while discussing it with my wife, she told me that she didn't know that iPods worked with PCs. Probably a lot of people share this belief and, by selling the iPod through a PC company, Apple will sell even more iPods.

Apple Can't Meet It's Own Demand

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been trying to get a 40GB iPod through buy.com for about 4 weeks now (I have a gift certificate). Amazon doesn't have any, and neither do any of the other online retailers.

I think you're missing the point...

[teridon]

I mean, forcing you to use iTunes to load music on it, or else it won't play? What's that all about? Just about every other MP3 player (ok, the creative ones suck in that way too) let's you use it as an USB Mass Storage device, no drivers, no software, and it will play any MP3 you put on there.. Nice and simple!

Simple for you maybe. Most people have little to no idea about the file system on their computer. Many of them can't find the folder where they put all their MP3s. Software and drivers makes it easier on these kinds of people.

You're not contractually required to give Steve Jobs a rim-job..

I looked everywhere in my iPod docs and I can't find that anywhere. If you've got a point to make, it'll go over better if you don't resort to bashing people without providing a reason.

Besides, he shaves his ass so it isn't so bad...

I don't think so

[OrangeHairMan]

It is essentially a clone of the current design

It's not a clone of the current design; it is the current design. The exact same thing. It's just in a differently labeled box.

orange

Ipod vs a Palm questions

[Vskye]

Ok, a buddy of mine just bought a Palm Tungston 3 and we were discussing what it can all do. He can: play mp3s, voice record, scheduler, alarm, (normal stuff) do APRS, even has a GPS hooked up and the palm tells him "turn left in 3 tenths of a mile, etc.., plus the ability to install games and other software. (aprs for example)

The Ipod on the other hand, does one thing well and thats play music. It has a voice recorder, alarm and a scheduler that you cannot enter info to, you have to dock it and then transfer the info to it.(?)

The Ipod does have a ton of more space, but then again the Palm has a sd card... pricing is $399 for either the 40GB model, or the Palm.

One other quick question, if you are going to purchase a 20GB Ipod for $299, why even consider a Ipod-mini for $249, when it only has 4GB?

Re:Ipod vs a Palm questions

[Anonymous Coward]

One other quick question, if you are going to purchase a 20GB Ipod for $299, why even consider a Ipod-mini for $249, when it only has 4GB?

Because you only have 750MB of music, and don't intend to buy (or pirate) a whole lot more before the ipod reaches the end of it's useful life?

Re:Ipod vs a Palm questions

[Bombcar]

One other quick question, if you are going to purchase a 20GB Ipod for $299, why even consider a Ipod-mini for $249, when it only has 4GB?

Well, two things. One, it is smaller and can be pink, which matters to about 50% of the population.

2. It is $50 cheaper, some people don't need 20 GB.

Also, the fact that they can't keep the darn things on the shelf indicates that somebody wants them.

Of course, the Slashdot Set would probably be happy with a 400GB iPod the size of a large brick.....

It is all about the channels

[Anonymous Coward]

First, it is not a clone. It is exactly.the.same.machine, made in the same factories, by Apple. It just goes in a blue carton with Windows centric user docs inside. This deal allows Apple to get iPods into retail distribution channels (big box retailers/discounters) they had no previous access to.

Coming soon..

[bmantz65]

The HP Apple iPod presented by Taco Bell.

have YOU thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

perhaps your statement is worthless as the Hp Ipods are not clones, but rather Ipods made by apple and simply resold by HP.

Early Apple computers were as successful as iPod

[AHumbleOpinion]

Apple's brand hasn't worked the same magic for home computers, now has it?

You are mistaken. Early Apple computers were as successful in their day as iPod is today. History has repeated itself so far. Hopefully Apple will now deviate from history and maintain their market lead.

Re:Early Apple computers were as successful as iPo

[Anonymous Coward]

While this is true, this was also before the era of modern Apple brand. They had a large market share because of technical excellence, not because they were seen as the BMW of a somewhat commoditized market.

Which is precisely the opposite argument of earlier in the thread - that folks bought iPods because of the branding.

HP smart to stick with white and sell printable ..

[AHumbleOpinion]

HP is smart to stick with white and to encourage people to print their own tattoos/skins for their iPod.

"HP describes the Tattoos as follows: The ultra-thin HP Printable Tattoos are easy to apply and remove from the player's exterior. They are durable and water-resistant, which helps protect the iPod from scratches and scuffs as music lovers carry it around. HP is working with industry recording studios to offer consumers access to the latest album art from the newest releases."

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/08/27.6.sh tml

Re:Early Apple computers were as successful as iPo

[AHumbleOpinion]

While this is true, this was also before the era of modern Apple brand

I disagree. When I chose an Apple //e over an IBM PC in 1983(?) Apple was a well known and highly regarded brand.

Apple Records?

[netglen]

I wonder if Apple Records will also sue HP now? Wasn't there a nasty spat in a court in England where Apple Records hauled Apple Computer into court for breach of contract? I'm guessing that Apple Records first tried to sue Apple in the past for their name but came to an agreement that Apple Computers will not get into the music business. Now Apple computers has the iPod plus iTunes. Does anybody have an update on this?

Dell proved product innovation is not where…

[Anonymous Coward]

...the money is. Dell is beating every other computer company by assembling decent stuff cheap. Copying is the way to make money. Innovation gets you relegated to Apple's small percentage of highly respected but relatively rarely purchased products. Oh sure. the iPod is a market leader...today. But, as Microsoft and Dell bring more and more financial resources to bear on it, the mass of lemmings will buy the cheaper stuff that saves them a few dollars today only to cost them hugely in maintenance and repair while choking off future innovation.

HP following Gateway?

[Anonymous Coward]

How will HP's consumer electronics strategy succeed when Gateway's consumer electronics strategy has just failed?

Re:Early Apple computers were as successful as iPo

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but IBM was a better known and more highly regarded brand, which then went on to clean Apple's clock and marginalize its marketshare. Which is not what is happening to the iPod. People bought IBMs for the brand.

Choose one argument, then stick to it. Works better.

HP Invent (tm)?

[bot]

Once upon a time HP was a inventive company. They had decent calculators, made decent machines, designed their own chips, wrote their own enterprise software, operating systems (HPUX, MPE). Back then they had managers who understood engineering principles, and had CEOs that had risen from the ranks, and were good engineers themselves. They called the company Hewlett Packard.

We have a 'new' HP now, a HP where marketing hotshots rules. Now, they rebrand Wintel boxes with HP logos, rebrand iPods with HP logos, and resell software made by other people... and make money by refilling ink cartridges. And they call it HP Invent (tm).

Three Words: Approved Vendor List

[Nova Express]

Geek wants iPod.

Geek wants company he works for to pay for it.

Geek submits request for "40 GB external Apple FireWire HD"

Accounting rejects request. "Apple not on approved vendor list."

Geek submits new request for "40 GB external HP FireWire HD.

Purchase request approved.

Result: Apple sells another 100,000 iPods they wouldn't have been able to Geeks gaming the system in PC-centric corporate environments.

Re:Three Words: Approved Vendor List

[Anonymous Coward]

Just did exactly that. Worked like a charm. No question asked.
Received order confirmation from HP. Others are doing now the same. Don't you love it? Thanks HP/Apple.

Asking for the same and putting "Apple" on the order? No way, not now, maybe in few years after Apple has re-acquired blessed status.

actually, it's not a slash site

[tcheud]

it's all written in php. it just uses the slashdot interface

Meinel Project

[_Sprocket_]

It appears that this is another project by the somewhat infamous Carolyn Meinel:

Registrant:
M B Research (UBERHACKER3-DOM)
P.O. Box 1520
Cedar Crest, NM 87008
US

Domain Name: UBERHACKER.COM

Administrative Contact:
Meinel, Carolyn (CM1773) cmeinel@TECHBROKER.COM
M/B Research
PO Box 1520
Cedar Crest, NM 87008
US
(505) 281-9675 fax: (505) 281-9675

Technical Contact:
Marchand, Bill (BMS103) bill@UnixHQ.org
Digital Information Solutions
P.O. Box 5612
Glendale, AZ 85312
US
Unlisted fax: Unlisted

Record expires on 03-Dec-2004.
Record created on 03-Dec-1999.
Database last updated on 30-Aug-2004 01:59:31 EDT.

Those who have followed her career or been in direct conflict with her might offer some warning. I would suggest one do some research and decide for oneself. But I personally wouldn't bother with the site now that I understand it's source.

you're mistaken

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno about gapless MP3 playback, but playing with the UI simulator on that site tells me you are incorrect about the UI. The UI sucks.

And as to battery life? The site says it has 10 hours. The original iPod played more than 10 hours, the mini plays more than 10 hours. the only iPod that didn't play more than 10 hours was the 3G.

Better in sound quality? Unlikely. Why don't you read Stereophile (or any other magazine's) check on the iPod sound quality before you trash it. Except for sheer volume of output, the iPod sound quality is exceptional. It's absurdly linear, flat, and has over 90dB S/N.

Anyway, as to patents, it is unclear made this deal to get access to any patents anyway. Did you even search for these patents you speak of? Are you sure they even exist? They could have all the patents in the world, and they still wouldn't have the iPod if they didn't make this deal.

And as to paying Apple? Why do you think they paid Apple? HP is selling the iPod. Generally, the company that sells something (think Best Buy) makes money on the deal, they don't lose money.

the 40GB kept the dock

[Anonymous Coward]

So the 40GB lost the remote (and the case I think), but gained a $30 USB cable and lost $100 in cost. That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

Oh, and then there's the better battery life.

actually, most players don't work that way anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason most players don't just work by letting you load trees of mp3s on them anymore is because that is slow. To make up a list of what you want to play, it has to open every mp3 on the hard drive, scan for ID3 tags, then close it and go to the next. It has to do this every time you use it as a mass storage device, in case you added or deleted songs.

What the iPod did was create a song database on the device. It contains the song names, artists, etc. in a database form, so you can access that info quicky. All player companies have copied this. So most have programs/plug-ins you use to load up your device.

Archos' particular implementation of this requires you use host software, or select a menu item on the device that performs this slow scan and builds the database. If you forget to do this, you can't play the mp3s.

Your old brick Archos? It doesn't even use ID3 tags. I guess that's great if you like organizing your mp3s with 31 character filenames. Just don't try playing by genre, you can't do it.

So anyway, you should stop and think before you piss on someone else's implementations. It could be they thought of something you didn't. It could be they're the smart one and you are showing your stupidity.

Re:Less profit for Apple

[idsofmarch]

got some emotional scars there don't you? If you don't want an iPod than don't buy one, but you might want to consider why you have such a visceral reaction towards a small inaminate object and the company that sells it. And, if you buy an iPod from HP... You're still buying an iPod! An Apple iPod, except this one will have a small HP logo on the back, near the Apple logo.

No Clone

[Anonymous Coward]

Clone? What clone: it IS the Apple iPod, only sold through HP.
Is not DONE/CLONED by HP, just sold.

Some people...

Re:Less profit for Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

small logo?

Maybe not even that. The poor bastard is just one of the fishes Apple is after with this deal with HP.
Windows users are idiots - per own admission of Microsoft - hence this way they will buy the iPod and happy they did not buy from Apple.

What an idiot.

Helps the HP Employees

[Deeper Thought]

Probably just a nice perk for HP employees -- they can now get an iPod with an employee discount.

10-30% off an iPod improves employee morale 10-30%.

Battery replacement policy

[p.gogarty]

Does anyone know how HP are going to handle the problems with battery life experienced by the Ipod. Will they be offering a battery replacement service like apples? Will it be cheaper? If its cheaper can existing apple Ipod owners get thier batteries replaced by HP?

HP cant go cheaper.

[gad_zuki!]

> If the price is the same... they're screwed.

Do you think for one second Apple's agreement would ever allow them to go below Apple's price? HP CAN'T go cheaper. So they are probably banking on the assumption that iPods dont work with windows, bundling, and getting them out to their retailers.

Apple knows that this is a win-win for them. How many companies are working on, or sell, an 'iPod killer' at a lower price right now? With HP taking care of things on the windows side of things Apple is extending the life of it iPod brand.

HP iPods will snare Joe WindowsUser

[Vandil X]

I've seen some of the advertising for the new hp iPods, and to me it looks like they are targeting two groups:

1. Amateur bands, whose members consist of 100% Windows users, looking to get into the music industry via iTunes/iPod and an hp PC to compose music on.

2. The Joe WindowsUsers not already aware of what an iPod is. For some of these people, hp has "invented" the iPod, especially once hp gets them on the same shelf as their Pavillion PCs at Wal-Mart.

Their printers don't suck?

[Anonymous Coward]

My local printer repair specialists say they are always getting call outs for HP4200 series Laserjets. Something about a really really stupid S-shaped paper path that keeps jamming up really good!

And I've found the 8550MFP doesn't come out of standby mode automatically when you try and print to it (so then for some reason the print queue stalls in a way that can't be fixed without stopping and starting the spooler service), and 4100 series Laserjets "lose" print jobs every now and again (and the only fix we can think of is to turn the printer off and on again, and then resend the print job.

I'm not impressed.. Now the 4000's, 4SiMx, 5Mplus.. they were good!

Re:Their printers don't suck?

[Anonymous Coward]

8550MFP - who in their right mind would give it a model name that so easily becomes an acronym for Mother Fucking Printer?

Good for me!

[aoty]

There are some benefits to this. Case in point, for me. I've been wanted an iPod for a couple of years now. I've been desperately craving and iPod since 4G was announced. My wife, however, has discouraged me from buying one because she doesn't think they are worth the money. But now, with the "HP branded" iPod being sold at places like Walmart, I can have one. I've been holding on to some gift certificates for Walmart for a few months left over from my birthday. Now my iPod is ordered, and I couldn't be happier. I'm finally getting one, even though it has the HP logo on the back. Big whoop, I can cope.

Obvious question...

[jav1231]

Why buy it from HP? If the price is the same, it would seem stupid.

Advertise 'em

[jfengel]

I just saw an ad at Yahoo for HP + iPod. They figure there's cross-branding to be done. Apple's taking advantage of a marketing channel they never had before. HP gets to sell a technology to many who have heard of the iPod but were buying Dells instead.

This is not a technical advance, it's a marketing advance. Marketing is a rather arcane science, and many of those who practice it are fools. I'm not a marketer, so I can't tell you if it's a good marketing idea or a bad one. But the answer to any question beginning with "Why" is always "money".

Pre-order at Costco

[Anonymous Coward]

They already are pre-ordering at costco http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=1 1005811

Funny? Should be Insightful!

[Johnny Mozzarella]

This is a very true and realistic scenario that will play out thousands of times in the coming months.

Apple should do the same thing with the XServes and XServe RAIDS.

Re:Early Apple computers were as successful as iPo

[AHumbleOpinion]

Yes, but IBM was a better known and more highly regarded brand, which then went on to clean Apple's clock and marginalize its marketshare. Which is not what is happening to the iPod. People bought IBMs for the brand.

Again, this is comparing different relative time frames. The Apple II initially did well against the IBM PC. Apple initially had greater marketshare. It took years to lose that. Apple's "marginalization" took place in the post-1984 Macintosh era, not the prior Apple II era. For a fair comparison we need to give Sony a few years, then the IBM PC comparison would be applicable.

It's not a "clone"

[dynayellow]

It's an Apple iPod with "hp" etched on the back. They're made by the same companies that make the iPod, and you can rest assured that they won't be selling them for less than the Apple Store does.

Very funny Apple document 93960

[dpbsmith]

For your ROFL pleasure, take a look at this in-depth tech support article: How to determine if you have a Hewlett-Packard iPod