Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft to Launch Online Music Store
yonnage writes "Microsoft is expected to enter the online song store market this week, which should put the software giant head-to-head with Apple Computer in the music business at last.
The launch of Microsoft's iTunes rival will be timed along with the beta release of Microsoft's new Windows Media Player 10, expected on Thursday, sources say. The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the features that will be added later, sources said."
Rosoff: Wasn't I supposed to say this bit about how we allow customers to burn downloaded playlists ten times?
Director: Oops. Sorry. I forgot to blank that out.
Rosoff: And what's this Apple logo doing over here?
Director: Like I said, I forgot to blank some things out. We're done. Thanks. Go home.
Finally, an alternative to the monopolistic Apple iTunes!
Oh, wait...
Right is wrong when left is right.
None of these hurdles is trivial, particularly in a business such as selling downloadable music, where actual margins remain only a few pennies per song sold. The real core of Microsoft's goal has little to do with e-commerce and everything to do with selling Windows, analysts said.
No it has nothing to do with selling Windows. It has to do with furthering the MSFT domination in every single technological market that they can slide their way into. The XBox hardware doesn't make them money but they are still getting their name out there and making money via some other channel (additional hardware, monthly Live subscriptions, royalties, whatever).
This is going to be no different. Get the people used to the MSN Music Store. Get them buying songs. Get them buying hardware. Get them used to seeing it in Windows. Make it an integral part of Windows. DRM the BIOS, DRM the OS, and DRM the Music, DRM the hardware/player, RIAA is happy, people get their Music, people are happy, money comes in, Bill is happy.
When the market is comfortable with seeing WMP and MSN media everywhere they are going to LOVE seeing it in their favorite theatre, on their favorite DVD, etc. Then the MPAA is happy and they will happily embrace the format which they are currently rejecting.
What I want to know is when WMP is going to just NOT work when you won't let it phone in what you have been watching/listening to. I've been waiting for that day to come. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened in WMP10-1 or WMP11. It's not like 99% of the people don't know that it is doing it and it's not like they care if it is. Most of these people don't have firewalls and even if they do they happily click to allow it to connect out permanently. Anything to make that annoying little box stop popping up.
Tin foil alert level is currently Orange but may raise when the MSN music store gains a foothold.
Obviously they're a little late for this... but really, if all of the others haven't really made a dent in the iTMS market share, how does MS intend to?
No mention of the DRM restrictions on the songs...
The RIAA should love to be associated intimately with Microsoft for the same reason that a plump girl should hang out with fat girls - to look good by comparison.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
The launch of Microsoft's iTunes rival will be timed along with the beta release of Microsoft's new Windows Media Player 10
http://www.micro soft.com/windows/windowsmedia/mp10/default.aspx
WMP10 Beta has been out for a while, so that's kind of confusing..
Microsoft will immediately become number two, and perhaps number one, if not almost straight away, with a shoddier product, and years earlier than they'd otherwise have been able to had it not been for Apple once again pioneering this market.
If Microsoft could get enough MP3-player vendors to sign up for compatiblity, it can once again screw Apple out of the market.
Let's see- Micro$osft unites with RIAA and MPAA. Next up will be Micro-Pec Oil, Micro-China Manufacturing, etc.... Does anyone else see the impending doom ?
And I own the most popular portable music player, so um, how do they expect to entice me to switch? Like Real did with their half priced songs? ****a please.
I haven't even up(down)graded to WMP 9 yet, it's so sticky with DRM issues.
It's one of Microsoft's favourite strategys ;)
I bet Michael Bolton is going to $profit$, not to forget contemporary hip hop and Britney Spears.
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
I think a good way for MS to test their Windows Media DRM "technology" is to deploy it en masse via an online music store.
But then again, it's probably just a good way to fsck Apple in the ass.
im glad microsoft is coming into the online music game, dispite it being a monopoly other places they still will generate competition, mabye drive price per song down? or unlimited downloads per month? or mabye some really really weak copy protection so that we can use the songs that we buy?
:)
i hate drm and never buy any songs online
sidenote, am i just surfing more and more news sites or does some stuff posted on slashdot seem old to other people too?
DRM-filled and available to US residents only. These stories are getting a bit tiresome.
A group of hackers announced today that they have cracked the DRM on Microsoft's new online music. Upon hearing the news, Steve Ballmer responded by getting mad and punching a hole in the wall.
Unknown host pong.
They want control of every market possible. Standard Microsoft buisness move. Then they could put Windows CE in all those mp3 players, so you could email people while you listen to Cher.
MS will be making money by licensing their DRM to world+dog. Apple makes money off of iPods, MS off of DRM.
The dogcow says "Moof!"
What they're not telling you its that there are only four songs available through the service.
Norman Cook's Ode to Sl
and free. Seems like this will be neither. I wonder if they will be even anonymous. Closest to that is some traditional tunes, but everyone seems to want to attach a name to a recording or tune.
-I am an elective eunuch.
I have come to expect this kind of quality from Microsoft and I sure hope that they don't let me down here. It seems like they may have rushed this project so I'm confident that they'll continue their record of excellence.
I boycott signatures
So they will once again embed some functionality into their OS, leverage their monopoly and kill the competition.
And while they are at it they will of course take DRM to a whole new level.
Note to all those who will be yelling that Apple is doing the same: Apple doesn't have a monopoly, MS does, yes, that is a major difference.
Money processing is instead expected to be full working from day 0!
SeqBox
Obviously they want to control the technology.
Then they can make profit.
Here they are, richest company on the planet, monopoly in their marketplace, and they aren't satisfied.
It's not about "choice" -- it's about Microsoft.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Please turn in your /. mebership to the nearest low UID member immediately. perhaps kuro5in would be more to your liking. Thanks for playing.
Microsoft has to find a way to be better than iTunes, rather than just selling music in the .wma format. Otherwise, I don't think they'll be beating out iTunes any time soon. Challenging it, yes. Ending up the most popular, no. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I would think by now that those who were going to purchase music online would have started with iTunes or one of its competitors.
Isn't it surprising that Microsoft is entering this business late and big? Now that it's proven profitable, all that 'built in advertising' stuff the windows group can do kinda leverages things pretty well... Your windows supplier can now know:
what you read online
what you listen to
what you buy
and what you watch
so it can 'market' to you better... I know this is nothing new but maybe these 'free market' guys should have been closer behind Msoft's breakup... If Microsoft goes into commercial sales as their main product, like Apple is doing right now, how much will they be selling?
My little site.
that the name of the MS music store will be:
DowsTunes
These people have no shame!
How is this a troll? Microsoft did screw Apple out the market before, why do you think that Apple only has a 3% desktop marketshare? They did it by getting OEM x86 PC manufactures to sell their OS. Since Microsoft isn't selling a hardware media player, they need exisiting MP3 manufactures. Sure it won't be as nice as the iPod and iTunes, but it didn't matter before either.
I quit using Napster because I didn't really like the Windows Media Player, or the Microsoft DRM technology. Why would I switch back just because MS has their own music store? The music store marketplace is becoming too saturated now and the only way for anyone to distinguish themselves is with a great hardware accessory - like Apple's iPod.
Apple is well in the lead and I don't see them losing the lead unless MS comes up with something better than just another "hey, me too!" store.
Five Dolla Moddy-Moddy?
All he seems to be able to do is copy other peoples' ideas, then act like he had the idea first.
Windows was copied from Apple Macintosh, but now nobody can use the name "Windows" except Microsoft.
Oracle and PostgreSQL are SQL servers, so Bill grabs the name "SQL Server" and acts like the market for databases is supposed to belong to him.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
"The big business goal here is Microsoft wants to promote the Windows format to sell more PCs and to get people to upgrade," Directions of Microsoft analyst Matt Rosoff said.
Thankfully, iTunes doesn't make me pay for a $150 OS upgrade. In fact, all I need to buy is the damn best portable MP3 player, the iPod. And in fact I don't even have to buy an iPod... I can just burn my purchased music to CD... no other purchases required.
Then again, maybe an upgrade will help in terms of computer security... and maybe I should pay the $150 to address the security bugs in older versions of Windows...
MP3 players? Hardly. Online music stores? Nope.
They were just the first successful "me too" product.
There's always this!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
How many people will credit Bill Gates with inventing the music download service?
How many will claim that "if it wasn't for Microsoft, you wouldn't be able to legally download music...."
Sorry Apple, it looks like Billy G is going to steal your thunder...
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
They wouldn't (at first.) They have enough money to undercut the competitor, drive them out of business or at least marginalise them, and then they have a monopoly and can do as they please.
1.) Make joke about how microsoft won't make any money from this, since Apple makes all its money on the ipod
2.) Get moderated as "redundant"
3.) ???????
4.) PROFIT!
The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the features that will be added later, sources said. Of course, this is typical Microsoft. Probably won't see a complete store until version 8.0. The key features most likely left out are security related...
There's no way that Microsoft's music store will anything like the cachet that the iTunes Music Store has. Microsoft, as a hip brand name, trails far behind Jenny Craig Mac & Cheese. But then again, if they make their songs playable on every non-iPod device out there, they'll pick up the lion's share of the market in no time. Good luck getting it all to work right, though.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
like I'm going to switch from iTunes to Microsoft service. But for now, I'll reserve judgement, until it gets axed.
"The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the features that will be added later"
No to be a picky bastard or anyhing, but projects without full features was called alpha state to me, last time I checked, while full featured, still in-test is beta.
Isn't this how all their software works ?
"The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the features that will be added later, sources said."
features include but not limited to:
* purchasing songs you never ordered.
* buying songs and not being able to play them
* a status bar saying: connected as user Kazaalite
* Your critical information leaked via other MS apps and the internet
..first need a device to be an "IPod killer" until I RTA
A second leg of that campaign is bearing fruit this year, as a wave of Windows-based entertainment hardware comes to market. Some of these will be portable devices, dubbed Portable Media Centers, running a slimmed-down version of Windows that includes Microsoft's new Janus copy-protection tools. This technology is expected to give a boost to subscription services by allowing the music to be put on portable devices for the first time.
emphasis mine
Why on earth would you need a Windows GUI on a device the with the same comparible size and power of an Ipod?
I wonder if in the future they'll bundle Media player 10 and the MS music store with Longhorn.
"There is only a one in six billion chance that you actually exist"
But this seems solely to be a competitor, only to drive another one out of business / harm their business ; instead of going for a profit themselves.
But as you said, maybe in the long term, there is profit to be made.
THis has nothing to with profit. They have a monopoly, they can (and do) subsidize most of their business units with their monopoloy profits from office and windows. This has to with "cutting off the air supply" of apple. The idea is to destroy the competition not to make a profit.
Having said that the profit will come in later. If MS is able to leverage their current monopoly to gain a monopoly in online music distribution they will be just like the RIAA. They will be able to charge everytime anybody buys music. They have been able to leverage one monopoly to gain another one in the past so it's certainsly doable.
The only question remaining is what will the governments do about it. My guess is "not much"
evil is as evil does
Cant they leave anything alone, do they have to absorb EVERTHING, then reduce its quality.
I know i know, yes they have to ruin the world.. but i can still be annoyed at it..
grr. note to self: need to take action.. stop evil empire..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the features that will be added later, sources said.
Like security?
With the RIAA Microsoft already in bed with is!
In WMP DRM by design is.
"Always two there are, a master and an apprentice."
"Which is the master and which is the apprentice?"
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
THink about it. IN the long run which are you going to spend more money on, the player or the music. The music. do really want to save 30 bucks buying a rio or a whatever to play your MS locked in music. Or do you want the best you can get. freedom is overated I think.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
There oughta be a law!
Very conceivable that MS could make an OS that will run on a more standardized MP3 player and fully integrate with the MS music store ala ipod & itunes.
Although, looking at the MS track record for producing what they'd like (and it working) smart money says "immenant failure".
I boycott signatures
There's been an alternative for a week or so.
google?real+ipod
Best example I can think of is Primary Colors, which was not free, but was anonymous. Linux is free, but not anonymous. Information wants to be free is an anthem for highly intelligent people.
-I am an elective eunuch.
From the beginning of the MSN article I quote with Reservation of Rights, { "Microsoft is expected to enter the online song store market this week, which should put the software giant head-to-head with Apple Computer in the music business at last.
The launch of Microsoft's iTunes rival will be timed along with the beta release of Microsoft's new Windows Media Player 10, expected on Thursday, sources say. The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the features that will be added later, sources said." }
I'm a dedicated purchaser of the rarer musician perephenalia, related mostly to "Alice in Chains", and many others known to me express the same cry that all these corporations around us are extending their jurisdiction into that of governance over media that existed before such statutes existed. Specifically, the public domain is being overshadowed by the RIAA corporation and the MPAA corporation to stifle it forever. Now with Microsoft entering the Networked Music Distribution venue, they are extending into that venue as did Amazon and Apple and soon Hewlett-Packard the encroachment of the United States corporation yet again. Apple has my applaud because they are simply not quick to incorporate DRM into their software, yet Microsoft having its monopoly is easy to persuade users into and outside of its software; Just recently, a Microsoft employee was allowed by its employer (Microsoft) to suggest the Mozilla Firebird webbrowser over their in-house embarassment Internet Explorer 6. Microsoft advertises its "bridge" of Usability with Security at a grueling pace, but that can change my friends; Motivated by profit of currency, they will invade this market with its full force of current and future human resources employed to implement all the anticipated DRM features into its monopolized organelles the Internet Explorer and MediaPlayer for its Trusted Computing Architecture. Microsoft has abilities to contract any software from any competitor that has security IP and patents to sell; you know they jumped on SCO for the libel parade against GPL.
Software by Turring ontop of a TCA is not an actual victory, but a temporary struggle. Intel has Microsoft's TCA contract and there is no reason for AMD to not be coerced into TCA. Anything controlled by a corporation and not man-kind; is subject to governance by the United States under their Statutes. Sun's Sparc seems to be holding strong despite the FUD, given Sparc is an open specification, yet it is not convincing due to its price. Has the entire world gone mad for protection from States that corporations controll everything and soon the air we breathe?
It would be hillarious to deny that corporations are harmless; they are the stone which wicked men and women hide within to scue their encroachment upon liberty and freedom while indemnifying themselves of harm caused by their corporation!
FPGA is the only hope agaist Trusted Computing Architecture because TCA is not to be Trusted in the hands of persons commiting treason.
I am the nightmare of nightmares.
If they consumer buys the DRM crap, then why deserve what's in store for them.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
What market did apple pioneer ?
This is about the same magnitude of myth as "Microsoft is a great innovator".
They buy technology and re-package it. The only innovation, ever from Apple was from Woz and that was in the 1970s.
Everything they've ever done was done by someone else before them. Apple is not a pioneering company.
Cheers,
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
\ MS will say that they are at the top of their game, until they are (which in some cases is never). They have the money to make mistakes like no one else. They can have no features, barest functionality, poor implementation, and still create hype and users - all through the marvel of $$$.
The Apple iTunes store doesn't have anything to worry about for a long while, but MS will beat their dead horse until its a threat. Not a big threat. Nobody cool is going to use MS's service.
At the end of the day - that's what it's all about.
They sell 160 kbps VBR tracks. Should at least sound better than 128 kbps tracks Apple sells. Now if they offered higher bitrates, and gave you a choice there, we'd have a winner.
Bill Gates don't want everything. He wants it all!
Whatever about the USA, do you really think the EU (or manywhere else) which has already mandated that MS allow the inclusion of alternative media players are going to allow MS to extend their monopoly in this direction? If they do they may as well take the laws pertaining to abusive monopolies off the books!
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Get ready for another Icon placed on the Windows Desktop *sigh*
Or maybe not, they are afterall micro(late to everything, yet takes it over)soft hehe :D
photoplankton
Oh boy do I wish they'd support Vorbis! And I think it's even probable, since Microsoft is well known for adopting superior technologies. I mean, small files, good sound quality, customer's happy burning his expensive music to cd's...
The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the features that will be added later, sources said.
So it will be just like all their other software? How will we know the difference?
Through sales of licenses to play and create WMP content.
Think about it: Apple is making money through hardware sales. If you boil off the cost of the hardware, all that's left is margin. If Microsoft can receive a PIECE of that margin through mandatory licensing costs to hardware manufacturers, they'd be making money without having to make any hardware or pay for any support.
It really is print-your-own. Assuming it works. Apple has such a head start here and has maintained such a lead in features and desirable content that MS is gonna have to work their ass off to impress people. Plus there's the millions of iPods already sold which aren't WMP compatible. MS, to gain any market at all, is going to have to invent one.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the featured that will be added later...
You mean just like their OS? You'd think they would realize by now that it's not a good idea to put a product on the market before it is completely ready...
Is WMP10 really much of an upgrade? After a little searching, I can't find any personally compeling reason to use it. A few UI tweaks, but nothing that gets me interested. Sounds more like WMP9.1. If the only reason to use it is to work with MS's music store, I'd love to know so I can avoid installing it (my CD player WFM). That'd be time better spent on Slashdot.
Seriously, since WMP10 and the music store seem to be closely linked, can anyone give a list of pro's/con's other than downloaded music?
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
The service will be released as beta, and will install itself via critical updates.
One morning all the PHBs will come to their computers with a brand new WMP + Music beta store installed and ready to go.
Of course since it is only beta, it will crash their machines continuously requiring us to keep fixing them all the time.
By the time it's out of beta, many viruses and exploits will be out for it, requiring us to, once again, keep fixing everyone's stupid PC.
So, 2 years from now, when their software is finally mature enough, it will be so common and buggy as IE, Outlook, and god knows whatever else, that it will require full time support and maintenance.
(All the meanwhile the PHBs will be like: "iTunes is not compatible with anything. I like the MSN store. Would you also come clean up my machine, it seems that someone has hacked in and installed a virus, it's running really slow.")
Thanx Bill, and thanx PHBs for increasing the workload.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
User: 2 Live Crew
Clippy: It appears that you are looking for 2 Live Crew. I am unable to find your request. May I suggest Old Dirty Bastard instead or perform an advanced search?
If you think
I can't wait! Microsoft Media Player is MILES AHEAD if that gay iTunes, probably because it's written in a real language (C#) instead of the crippled and slow Objective-C
I for one would like to welcome our new online music store overlords :)
If it's anything like plug and play, it'll be more like "Probably Plays for Sure". Just like Windows "networking", "security", "efficiency", or "stability".
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Bill Gates and the wife at home trying to dance to Blinded by your love by Modern talking coming out of their Plays-for-sure Microsoft (TM) player...
Wife: "Oh, Bill, this is so romantic, I just love your new song thingie..."
Bill: "Huhuh, huh huhuhuh, yeah, it's pretty cool even if I say so myself, huhuh huh!"
*screech* *all of a sudden music changes to Settle for nothing by Rage Against The Machine*
Wife: "Biiiill? What the heck is this?!"
Bill: "*shrugs* Umm, it's still playing, that's for sure. That's the main thing, right, hon?"
*screech* *crackle* *pop* *music stops altogether*
Wife: "Fix it, I want our song back!"
Bill: "Uh, actually, I don't really know how it works, but -"
Wife: "Oh never mind, I will do it! *aproaches player*"
Wife: "Bill? Is this thingie supposed to have that blue screensaver you use all the time too?"
The sad thing is, they beleive it. They have same mentality as Mohammed Atta: "Whatever I beleive is true and whatever I do or same to promote it is legitimate". There's little hope for these guys. This is why Bill Gates keeps them in their little corner of the market where they can pretend they're not the second platform for Microsoft Office and they everything they do is "innovation" and "pioneering".
Apple requires the use of their own unit to play the music you purchase online. There are many companies selling music online, more then what the diehard iTunes users would like you to admit too for some reason and many have been doing for longer then iTunes has been around. None of these companies have hardware or other services to fall back on and appear to think they can make it without the hardware sales. I'll admit, MS has an advantage of bundling everything under the sun to smooth out the costs but the other companies do not and they are still in business. What is Apple doing wrong that they are making no money from iTunes? Either that claim is false, Apple is doing something very wrong, or every other company fooled the investors and is doomed to fail (possible I guess). Negotiating deals with record companies to bring content online is something that every one of those companies had to do.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
I think its terrible that this will be another lower-than-CD-quality-for-more-$$$-than-a-CD online shop. Distribution costs? Negligable compared to distribution of 5" circles of plastic. Profit? Yes please
They (*AA et al.) bitch about P2P killing their business. Since joining a closed p2p network, I have bought more CDs in the last 6 months than I have in about the last 5 years. http://www.ubernet.org/ Music ripped with Exact audio copy and encoded with LAME using the --alt-preset's. Also some OGG and FLAC.
Car analogies break down.
Apple and Microsoft are second rate services.
After using allofmp3.com I would never use anything else.
Pay per MB.
No DRM
Very large (but admitidly incomplete) collection.
Songs encoded as you order them. Choose from MP3, OGG, AAC, FLAC, and more.
I spent more in 2 hours at the site than I have in my entire life previously. When you are paying $.001 a megabyte that is saying something.
I don't give money to these scumbags anymore.
They've clearly never seen office space
No worries, though, I've got karma to burn =)
With all the brainpower here, it's surprising that nobody's asked "why is Microsoft doing this?"
When iTMS came out, MS said explicitly that it wasn't going to get into the music download business. It's partners (or, I suppose, potential victims) already had large investments in online storefronts, and its other partners already sold WMA-enabled devices.
So why did MS decide to get into music?
I think the HP/Apple deal had something to do with it. One of MS' biggest customers went with another vendor (Apple). That must have galled MS. The PC side has device vendors and music stores, but there was no single-vendor solution. The WMA hardware vendors were probably complaining to Mama that MS wasn't helping them on the software side.
And when you look at it, how stable is are the WMA-based music stores? Real? Napster? Wal-Mart? Any of them could flake out at any moment, deciding that the business wasn't good enough. None of them are stable enough for a real long-term partnership.
By providing an MS music store, MS removes one barrier to WMA-based music stores: vendor instability. It supports the WMA-licensees. It opens up licensing opportunities.
Note there's no consumer benefit here, really.
The question is will MS be able to run this afterthought storefront?
iTMS is about the iPod, not Apple. People use iTMS because it's easy and nice to use, and it works with their pod. MS Music is about...hardware vendor support?
It'll be interesting to see how long MS Music lasts, and more interesting to see who the first few licensees will be.
You know my company, CD Baby, is one of the companies supplying a huge chunk of music to iTunes, Rhapsody, Emusic, Napster, etc.
A few months ago I was at a music conference when I got into a deep discussion with this guy about our love of West African music. He's been doing an African music radio show for 20 years, and has met Fela Kuti, and been in this band doing Afropop, too.
So after half an hour of talking about this, I said, "I'm sorry I don't know your name." - and I flipped around his badge. He was one of the heads of Microsoft MSN Music! I cringed a bit and said, "Oh. Uh. Microsoft? Whoa." I'm generally a MSFT-basher. But I said, "Well --- it's nice to know they have someone like you inside the big beast."
He said, "I was surprised, too, but guess what? They actually found 8 other guys like me, too. People who have been in the music side of the music biz for at least 10 years. People running folk radio shows, and jazz magazine editors and such. Real MUSIC people. And they told us to make the online music store of our dreams."
They're going to be selling the entire CD Baby Digital Distribution catalog - and in fact they pursued us pretty strongly. Even on the tech-side of things, they're really doing everything right. (Yeah yeah of course they insist on DRM. You expected Ogg Vorbis?)
But anyway I just felt you have to give credit where credit is due, and I can tell my fellow Slashdot nerds in advance that I think the MSN Music Store is really doing it right.
so apple are trying to sell a product, ms are trying to screw people.
The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the features that will be added later, sources said.
Seems to me that lately, Beta no longer means a testing phase. It now means "Hurry and saturate the market with an incomplete product so we can make money now and take business away from competitors!"
from your friends in Europe & Asia
see you in court
i am aware this is somewhat offtopic, but being a sucker for eye candy i went to look at a screenshot, is this glassy look the new "avalon" desktop look that microsoft will be heading towards and downloadable for xp? (originally intended for longhorn release)? i am curious as i havent seen many current screenshots of the gui in longhorn. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/mp10 /default.aspx
My guess is the government(s) will wait until it's waaaayyy too late( all competition is out of business ), and then do too little ( not even a wrist slap ), and then blithely forget anything happened.
Not that there's any precedent.
lorem ipsum, dolor sit amet
Shit man, your boycott's going really well. See how much money they lost last quarter?
Oh wait, my mistake. It seems they made several million dollars and Linux/OSS hasn't yet cut significantly into their bottom line at all. My mistake. But hey, I'm just analyzing the market here. You're the one inconveniencing yourself for no actual effect.
The company is helping to create a "Plays for sure" logo that will be used by device makers and online music services to assure consumers that purchases from participating companies will be compatible with each other, sources familiar with the plans say.
I think its fair to say then that, somewhat ironically, Apple won't be one of their partners. I'm fairly sure that Jobs won't want a "Plays for sure" logo on iPods, or iTMS. Which makes me wonder:
Given the huge popularity of iTMS and the iPod so far, will we see the beginning of another "Betamax vs VHS"-style technology battle? Will this be the move that forces Apple to license FairPlay in order to keep sales of iPods up? After all, if this is likely to be bundled in future versions of Windows, or even - perhaps - in future interim releases, then that's some 9x% of the planet with a music player that's tied to services that aren't apple, and using a music format that is not compatible with the iPod.
Or (somewhat unlikely), is this going to be the service that people finally realise what it means to be locked into vendor platforms? After all, all I saw on zdnet was a mention that it used Janus for DRM encoding - what was not mentioned was what limited rights was it permitting you to exercise? Surely if something like this hits the mainstream music-buying public there will be some kind of backlash.
The ways of gods are mysteriously indistinguishable from chance.
When hell freezes over with flying pigs, is the day I'll pay to download music from microsoft.
much like IE, it'll just get integrated into windows. you won't even need to be in media player, you'll just think of a song and it'll download a JANUS version of whatever song you wanted or didn't want. It will also not work with your ipod or let you transfer it to another computer. If you try, it'll just charge you.
then an xbox will show up in the mail, and you'll hear bill and steve screaming like little girls off in the distance.
http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
ah, you win some, you lose some...
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Funny that you miss your own valuable point.
...
The fact is Microsoft is on 95% of computer sold by brand name instaled as default.
The Hardware maker are going to test them , and pay to have driver working for it , so that they to can be compatible with it
They dont need 100% of them to do it , just a majority of the interesting models ( best feature , best price ( yes , apple 399 for a player is a lot ).
1 X 399 IPOD vs 100 X 25$-500$ MP3 Player
... Gates had the *very* original idea to license his OS to multiple hardware vendors, something no one else had thought to do... thus giving MS-DOS a larger market share than other OS's, and eventually leading to the MS dominion of the desktop.
Admittedly, that seems to be the only one...
It's a tired turn of phrase, but perhaps appropriate:
All your tunes are belong to us.
Esp. with the evolving DRM stories.
Many people are concentrating on the threat to iTunes. However another important aspect of this is MS once again screwing over its partners, in this case, companies that licensed technology from MS to run wma based online stores. iTunes has enough name cachet and differentiation (and the most popular player iPod) so it might survive the MS monopoly abusing onslaught, but other wma based online stores are going to get slaughtered. It will be a similar situation to Telstra broadband competitors in Australia. Teltra used to be the government owned monopoly for decades. Hence they own the vast majority of the legacy backbone. They compete with Telstra but also rely on buying their backbone from Telstra. This means tactics like recently how Telstra lowered the price of their cheapest broadband *below* the wholesale price they were selling it to their competitors. And we know that MS is just as bad or even worse in terms of sleazy monopoly abusing tactics than Telstra. Also there is evidence to suggest that Telstra does things like telling people broadband is available in their suburb, but only if they are inquiring about their products. If it is a competitor's, Telstra's report comes back negative. (The guy who published this then had his broadband from Telstra revoked because it was a "mistake"). So wma online stores will be competiting with the company that provides the "backbone" AND the software vital to their survival. Not a good position and we know what MS is like.
Also none of the wma online stores have the features that iTunes at least has to differentiate it from the MS store. They don't use different software. Their software and any prominance to any particular online store is supplied by their biggest direct competitor! What store do they think Windows media player will give prominance to. And they know perfectly well MS' business practice history esp. with regards to bundling e.g. Netscape. Any popular hardware player that plays theres will play MS's. Even the name of the format "Windows Media Audio" suggests that it is a MS product and lots of people have the idea that MS products work best with other MS products.
Basically they are screwed. Their biggest competitor controls their fundamental technology and the way their customers use it AND has a reputation for ruthlessly abusing their monopoly powers. They might as well just close up shop now and be done with it. Only MS and iTunes will survive. But this is what you get for trusting MS I suppose...I wouldn't be surprised if MS only co-operated with the other stores long enough to get the required intelligence on how to run an online store as they've done it before and I can't see MS ever having any ideas about wanting to share a market with any competitors. Sharing is not part of the MS vision.
This just in...Microsoft has announced it will begin to make a new line of deli sandwiches which will five times tastier than subway or quiznos. The sandwiches will contain small amounts of cocaine to keep people eating them since they taste so shitty nobody would ever touch them. Microsoft has also announced in the same report that the amount of cocaine in each one will slowly fall so that the company can continue to make the profit that it so badly needs. The FDA has said nothing about the cocaine; some insiders say they are ignoring it because everyone in the government is in Microsoft's pocket....never saw that one coming!
If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up. - Comedian Mitch Hedberg R.I.P. 03/30/68-2/24/05
"The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the features that will be added later" MS: "For example, we will be adding ipod compatibility to the full release, so all you ipod owners can safely purchase songs at a cheaper rate than Apple sells them and then use them on your ipod when add that feature. No really, honestly, we'll add it."
I think even more significant than the fact that it will be going head-to-head with Apple is the fact that Microsoft will be going head-to-head with companies already using Microsoft technology for their music stores (and it will be doing so from the "has-a-monopoly-on-the-OS" position.
I am very curious to see how Napster, MM, etc... play their hands on this one.
Go ahead and give money to the Russian mob and make sure none gets to the artist... that is all you are doing if you buy there.
What scares me is that MS is opening another hole to the local PC and you can bet that security is not strong enough. You can bet that a new type of virus will be created that creeps through this MS Music Store/WMP10 and the communication chat feature. These folks can't secure a browser and now the the world will be off to trust/open themselves to more attacks.
I can respect a company that takes an existing idea and improves it. MS is a company that takes an idea and cheapens it. I hope MS Music Store is successful and then the 95% of brainless users start crying about how their machine was attacked, deleted, invaded, blah blah blah!
The price of online music should be what, 1/10 of what it is now?
I've never thanked MS for anything before, for the first time then: THANKS MS!
Although they're doing this for different non-altruistic reasons, this will be seen in future as an important step along the way to 'rationalizing' the cost of recorded music, movies, etc.
And that's the rough and tumble, self-interested marketplace system working at it's best.
Cool.
As a series of apparently unrelated "security updates" causes their application to become ,who just want to listen to their music, fold and give their souls to MS. Again.
increasingly unstable and unattractive. Until finally the users
And the users will end up being mad at Apple for putting their songs in a format that their great winblows media system cannot support anymore.
It's a commodity. Walmart is only $0.88 rather than $0.99. So that is where I shop for it.
I think they mean bugs with features. Cheers, Bert
Oh I hope that M$ do something illegal and the DMCA bites them on the arse with the RIAA ramming their little sticks up M$'s big fat arse.
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
What you want to choose something else then Microsoft? What are you? A commie?
This is really nothing new. MS has always thought that choice meant choosing MS.
Most companies think this. Just one tiny little problem. No other company has such a world-wide monopoly.
It seems odd that the dutch goverment is actively enforcing laws to stop Shell, a dutch company, from becoming a monopolist regarding fuel stations yet sees no problem with MS having a monopoly. Yet Shell is just another oil company world wide. Totally different from Microsoft that has a world wide monopoly.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Care to be first on the list?
Oh wait.. you posted AC, you dont even have the guts to hide behind a fake name...
How sad.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
...that nobody's broken the current generation of Windows Media DRM yet. Also, an online music store peddling WMA tracks is hardly a new idea - OD2 have been doing it in Europe for years, but I never bothered with legit music services until iTunes came out here. Why? Because if I buy a DRM'ed WMA track, the only thing I can do with it is sit at my computer and listen to it. Now I grant that most of the time that's probably what I'll want to do, but it means that if at some point in the future I decide I want to do something else with it (for example, putting it on my laptop so I can listen to it on the train) I can't. And even if they've made that sort of thing possible now, I bet it involves some sort of horribly complicated license transfer process or something. With iTunes, I can buy music, run it through hymn and Bob's your uncle, I can do whatever I want with it. Course, it's still in AAC format, so if I want to put it on a device that isn't compatible with AAC, such as an MP3 player, I need to do some conversion, but at least I can do that.
This should read, "Nobody 'cool' is going to use MS's service." If you worry about marketing in the entertainment field, you are going to be quite concerned with what high profile people will be using your product.
As long as kids see their favorite 'beautiful people' using iPods, Macs and iTunes, that's what they want. Kids will continue to see Apple, because Apple combines great design (they look good on screen) with functionality (the people who are taking product shots for print are going to have them handy, videos filmed in studios are going to have them as well - ect.).
Yes, you /.ers are smart enough to look past form, and see function. Whooo. You are also one of the least important demographics to the music industry.
MS would do well to sell their service as hip and cool, but they can't. You the bigger you are, the less 'cool' you can manufacture. That's what I'm talking about. MS will succeed on volume, but not on favorable mindshare. Just like /.ers view of Windows.
Those who think I am concerned with how 'cool' I am, need only to crawl up their own asses and grab a clue. I post to Slashdot, for fucks sake. I was cool for about 3 minutes in 1983, and haven't looked back.
So, you want to talk marketing? Post. You want to debate my self image? Blow me.
Excellent- another place not to buy music from!!!
kin242.net
"The store will also be in beta mode, lacking some of the features that will be added later"
No shit.
Why doesn't this surprise me?
SOP for MS.
Ever since day one, Gates has been screaming at his customers, "Stay the course! The next one will be dynamite!" Read any of the biographies. The entire company was built on FUD, not technology.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Unless they have resolved the biggest issue I had with DRM'd WM files then there's not a chance in hades that I will ever use the service. And I will recommend against the service on that basis.
The basic issue is that DRM'd WM files only work with one installation of Windows. If you lose your box, you lose your music. If you have to reinstall (a rare occurrence with Windows, I know) you lose your music.
The worst that can happen with iTMS files is that if you forget to deauthorize your computer before reloading you lose the ability to play that song on one computer. But you can still play the songs.
I sense another antitrust lawsuit on the way.
It should be filed just as soon as MS starts to bundle the media player with store into Windows Update.
Man, I remember the days of Linux goth sluts, but Windows sluts? That's really low. I don't even want to know what kind of viruses they are carrying....
Here you go then...
I'm West African, and I don't give a damn about anything from Micro$oft. Yes, Micro$oft will always pay the money to be cool - to entice and then engulf you. It's an investment for them, with the ultimate aim of controlling every aspect of your life. I would much prefer diversity and competition. I run Linux because it works, it's cool, and because freedom is of extreme importance to me. Either way, I don't need or want anything from them. I have always been able to get all the ethnic music I desired, and they can and will only pose a threat to that freedom.
All because of $$$. Careful what you embrace. "Not everyone that smiles at you is your friend."
"Grammer" check?
CD Baby becoming a DRM shop -- booooo!
What makes you think the Apple business plan has ever been about monopoly? Can you name a single product - apart from the iPod, which I think you'll concede belongs outside the PC market - since the Apple ][ that possessed anything close to a plurality of the market? I think it is important for open-source advocates in particular to understand that monopoly is not the only business model with a chance at success.
A relative of mine was telling me that in his industry (auto related), the nationals will open stores near independants and cheerfully run them at a loss for over 10 years to close them. We used to look to government for this kind of foreward thinking. MS is cashed up enough to cut off anyone else's oxygen.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Look at this section from that article on Janus you linked to:
"Supporting other formats was not a priority for us at this point. We wanted to get this right in ASF," said Brooks Cutter, lead program manager for Windows Media DRM. The DRM uses a secure time stamp from an onboard real-time clock and links to a system-specific ID or serial number to track when a song or movie from a rental or subscription service has expired. Portable devices will be required to prevent users from tampering with the system clock. They may have to initialize the device clocks over the Internet as a security measure.
Systems makers also will be held responsible for providing secure systems buses and storage of digital keys. That includes not allowing users to transmit paid-for content via unapproved I/O links under some scenarios.
Sounds to me like a recipie for flaky consumer devices. I think at the heart of things any devices that has to support media "expiration" is ultimatley going to fail, in part because the device may just err in not letting you play something it should (and pissing you off) or have usability issues like having to be connected to the internet every so often just to syncronize a clock!
Has there ever been an example of time-limited media that was embraced by the public?
I think people making devices with more wide open rights (you buy content and it's yours forever) are going to clean the clocks of people who insist in maintaining the fantasy that digital media can have a time control applied for the general public.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Someone left out a negative in this sentence:
"Microsoft wants to make sure there's a Windows Media store around for a really long time, no matter what happens to the market," Rosoff said. "If Microsoft weren't in business, chances are no one else would survive."
That last sentence is really weird. Usually the question is whether anyone else can survive once Microsoft establishes themselves in a market.
Poster one: "IE was and still is a very bare-bones browser. If Netscape had improved their features instead of trying to out-Microsoft Microsoft in marketing games, they could have survived".
Poster two: "IE had more features than Netscape! It did X, Y, and Z!"
I fail to see how this is in any way a constructive response. The original poster did not write Netscape was feature-competive with IE 4. Rather, that if Netscape had worked on keeping up to date with standards and improving the features they would have been able to outdo IE.
I don't know if I can agree... there's not much chance of competing against something that's free and seems to be good enough, and the fundamental design flaws in IE don't seem to get much press, so I don't think that Netscape could have won that game. But whether or not the conclusion is valid, there's nothing in the reasoning that leads up to it that conflicts with your assertion... so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Mr. Gates is rally going along the same path that the villain in 'Tomorrow Never Dies', a Mr. Carver walks? We don't even have a quick fix 007 solution with us ...
"It looks like you're illegally downloading music from a p2p program! Please click a box to continue:"
... [SUMMON RIAA SWAT TEAM]
[BUY FROM MS]
When you look at the state of the world, how can you not become a radical, liberal anarchist?
uh, i will not let m$ fuck with my music. jeeze, can't they just work on longehorn and leave us alone?
Serenity now, insanity later.
Lindbergh was NOT the first person to fly across the Atlantic. The first person to fly in an airplane was Albert Read when Lindbergh was only 17. In fact, several other pilots flew across the Atlantic before Lindbergh The Wright brothers were not the first to fly an airplane. They were just the first to be photographed while flying an airplane. Name almost any successful product that has been around for 10 years. That product was probably developed by someone else first. That's true for operating systems, search engines, cars.. Being first doesn't matter.
If this is the route Microsoft is taking. I may not want to upgrade to Longhorn based on the fact that Microsoft may end up doing RIAA's and MPAA's dirty work by preventing us from installing p2p networks or even worse, BitTorrent clients. Just a major concern I have.
----- You know you have ego issues when you register a domain in your name.
All good points, but there's one flaw in the strategy this time. iPods don't do WMA. They really are going to need that $50 vapor player if they plan to take the market this time. And since iPods are only $0 to $69, it's going to be a hard sell :-)
In all seriousness though, Apple has momentum. They've got a greater marketshare with iPods and iTunes than they ever had with the Macintosh. This time, Apple has the ubiquitous hardware advantage. Microsoft is Tyson fighting Buster Douglas. MS is getting soft. XBox hasn't gone according to plan. Licensing and product activation is leading their customers to jump ship. They've peaked. There's nowhere to go but down now ;-)
...but MS will beat their dead horse until its a threat.
Eh -- your actual argument is okay, but drop the metaphor. The whole point of the phrase is that dead horses stay dead. Beating them is an entirely useless exercise.
MS, on the other hand, may be able to create enough hype to get users for its service, and (like many other MS products) even if it sucks initially, it will start catching up in features. Maybe the 'cool' people won't like it -- but hey, most people aren't cool, and they don't always want to be like the cool people -- they want to be like everybody else.
So it's not even entering a half-dead horse in the race, then buying the best doctors and trainers in the world for it (my next thought), because the horse that "wins" and collects the prize money isn't even usually the one that finishes the course the fastest.
Plus don't forget that part of Microsoft's success actually is wrapped up in creating useful and functional software/services. If their software really was useless they would have no customers. And people tend to forget this, but in Microsoft's ideal world everyone would love them because XP really did make the company/internet/whatever 100x more efficient. Customers would be loyal without requiring sneaky lock-ins, and expensive hype and marketing, and funded research on the dangers of competitors. MS does hire a lot of competent developers... but they play the game hard, software is a finnicky thing to get right, and sometimes they make dicey decisions for short-term gains, so they are where they are today. You can't deny they've played the game pretty successfully.