Well, I got modded as a troll for the above (I really SHOULD have referenced that, I admit) but the analysis of Tommy's marketing techniques comes from Naomi Klein's No Logo. I highly recommend it.
Tommy Hillfiger did this to promote their clothes in poor black areas of NYC.
Triv
Re:Sounds like fun - shame about the name
on
Economy of Errors
·
· Score: 2
I'm talking specifically about his standup here, the stuff he did in Greenwich village in the mid-sixties when New York was segregated - there were places you couldn't go (Like the New York Athletic Club) if you were Jewish. Very few people have heard this stuff, but it's where most of his more famous quotes come from: "Sex is a beautiful thing between two people. Between five, it's fantastic." etc.
Woody Allen's not funny now, no (although I like some of his movies. Not most.) I agree with that. His straight comedy, on the other hand, was groundbreaking.
You wanted an interesting discussion, so here goes.
I've tried my hand at a novel before, as my half-shelf of writing books will attest.
Yep, I've got one of those too (just to establish my pseudo-credentials).
It seems to me that the whole reason for a novel, or fiction generally, is to communicate an emotional state to the reader.
Partially. I mean ok, if you graph from far enough away that's true, but that creation of emotional response really needs to be broken down some. Fiction can impart a lesson or moral, can create a sense of location (I'm currently reading Anthony Powell's "Dance to the music of Time" series. 3,000 pages - all you get is an incredibly detailed picture of what inter-bellum Brittan was like. Take that away and you've got a soap-opera) It can craft basic emotion, but honestly if that's all there is, I see no point. Romance novels do that quite well.
To me, fiction is about style. It's not what you say really, it's how it's said. Donald Antrim, Harold Pinter, even Douglas Adams do wonderful things to language. Antrim's a wonderful liar - he shatters his novels in the last 20 pages and you never see it coming. Pinter relies on what's not said, lets you draw your own conclusions - he thinks out his plots and writes around them. Adams was an amazing describer - "His arm muscles moved around each other like volkswagons parking." He made images jump to your imagination. His radio background did that - he had to plant a vivid picture, otherwise Hitch-hiker wouldn't exist.
Continuous feedback, in my mind, should be avoided. You finish the damn thing and then show it to someone. Asking for input chapter by chapter could be confusing. But then again, we're not really talking about a novel here.
Honestly, I'd say go for it and see what happens. If it sucks you'll know what to do differently next time around.
Best of luck.
Triv
Re:Sounds like fun - shame about the name
on
Economy of Errors
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
use The Onion as a perfect example to fellow Englishmen who claim that America doesn't understand irony, that American humo[u]r isn't funny
Blackadder:Baldrick, do you know what irony is?
Baldrick: Yeah. It's like...goldy, and bronzy...it's just made of iron.
I agree. I hate the body of american humor. Seinfeld wasn't bad and News Radio was fantastic, but most of it I can't stand. Give me Blackadder or the young ones any old day.
That being said...I hate bean with a passion. It's self-indulgent and yes, childish. I find it just as bad as most american popular humor, possibly a shade worse. Woody Allen once said that the thing that makes humor funny is the inherent truth to it. Humor is realising what's wrong with the world and ribbing on it to call attention to it and to lighten the burden. You should listen to some of his old stand-up routines. He, Mort Sahl and Chris Rock took social commentary to new levels. Just a suggestion, YMMV.
What I'd like to see is a plain language command line interface combined with a gui of some form. OSX is close, but not quite there. I'd like to be able to call up a command prompt and type "copy all MP3's in *this directory* (the directory chosen by a menu akin to a save dialogue) to *this disk*. I love OSX, but I'm finding more and more that the whole concept of a window manager is grating on me. I'd love a text parser like the old infocom / Sierra games. *Look Around* gives you a directory listing of where you're at, etc. Terminal's close - it guesses what you wanted to do if you mistype. I'd just like it to be...well, smarter.
I don't know how possible this is, I don't even know if it exists. I'm a writer, not a coder. I guess I'm looking for a more...interactive experience. Plain language voice control is a good step, but I feel silly enough yelling at my computer let alone pleading with it. (It's fun to use to play chess tho):)
if only because I've got an AppleLoan and was planning on using a bit of it for 10.2...but then again I'm a student so I get it for 70 (or whatever) anyway.
Actually, that brings up an interesting point: with the rest of that loan I'm probably going to by a refurbished LCD iMac. I save $150 off list (or 100 off education pricing) getting it refurbed, but am I still elligible for the $20 upgrade or does it need to be a NEW computer purchase? I'd rather pay 20 than 70 any ol' day.
As has been said thousands of times, Apple ships their computers with a single button mouse because it's less confusing. They aren't stopping you from buying another one (although persnally I'd LOVE an Apple-branded two button optical mouse. rock mouse body left / right for different buttons, but that's just me). No new mac user is going to spend a huge chunk of change on a new computer and then throw down $5000 for a program they've never used.
Think of it this way - would you edit professional level digital video on a computer without a jog wheel? Same idea - it's the right tool for the job.
Pan 1: heat olive oil with garlic. Cook veggie 2-3 minutes. Add chicken. add vinegar, salt, pepper and basil. Cook till done.
Pan 2: melt butter in pan. Follow insturctions on back of pilaf box. After you add water, squeeze lime into pan. Add yellow chicken-flavored stuff. cook till done.
add pan one to pan two. Mix. top with cheese. feeds three, stuffs two, immobilizes one.
So, I read your comment. Read your sig. At exactly that moment, that line popped up on the random itunes playlist I'd made (random 25 toad songs).
I'm still dazed.
I'd be interested to know exactly WHERE onsite, and what security procedures were in place if you know. Onsite's all well and good, but we're talking about a huge area of land here. "Put these hasmat suits on, ladies and gentleman, the room we're entering is a little 'hot', if you know what I mean." Seriously, how close did these tours come to anything vital? I'll talk to mom and get back to you on this one.
I've heard news somewhere about warnings for terrorist attacks through the internet, things like possible attacks to nuclear power plants.
My mother used to work for GPU Nuclear, the company that owned Three Mile Island and Oyster Creek among other nuclear reactors. Their security, even way before the whole terrorist threat being brought to the foreground, was practically unbreakable. Nuclear reactors are considered super-high risk by the government - try getting a job there, let alone approaching one. They do extensive background checks through the FBI, and the perimeter is protected by 12-foot high barbed-wire fences and armed guards with sub machine guns and orders to shoot on sight.
The internet services and the computer systems that control the reactors aren't physically connected. That's the easiest way to keep it secure, right? Offer no access.
Pop quiz: do you know one of the major reasons Three Miles Island came so close to a meltdown? their security was too tight. They didn't want to risk anyone getting any major telephony access to the site, so there was only one phone line leading to the outside world. Naturally, it was rather tied up with people calling their families so reenforcements were substantially delayed.
Disclaimer: IANANE (I Am Not A Nuclear Engineer) but I grew up with someone in the business - my mom was THERE when TMI almost melted.
There was a great series (well, mini-series - two albums) put out from "The Bottom Line" in Greenwich Village called "In Their Own Words - A Bunch of Songwriters Sittin' Around Singin'." It was a wonderful collection and it worked like this: the first half of every album was songwriters and one of the songs they'd written (not necessarily the one you'd think) with a short conversation about where the song came from or the status of the industry. The second half of the album was the artists singin' songs they didn't write, stuff they were inspired by and their reasons for their choice. You'd get the oddest combinations: Jill Sobule singing "I Will Survive" for instance. The artists themselves bounce from village institutions (lucinda Williams, Jimmy Webb, Pete Seeger) to then-pop staples (Jill Sobule, Gordon Gano), to legends (Barrett Strong - the guy who actually wrote "I Heard it Through the Grapevine).
Pick 'em up. they're tough to find in stores (prolly out of print) but can be ordered. If you're out of luck email me and we'll see what we can do.:)
yep. iMac DV400 here too. Q3A runs beautifully provided you boot into OS9 - I haven't tried it in classic. There's also an OSX version in the works (it's in beta...there's info here). I'd say pick it up - it's certainly cheap enough. Just make sure you've got RAM to spare - I've got 640MB loaded into my system.:)
On my harddrive somewhere I've got a ska version of the Tetris Theme from the days when napster was still kickin'. First time I heard it I laughed for hours. (FWIW, I've also got a ska version of Hava Nagila lying around too)
hype, my friend. It's all 'bout hype. When a new game's touted as being the greatest game ever, they can get away with charging an arm and a leg for it. Personally, I just picked up a copy of Q3:a for ten bucks at Software Etc (and broodwar for a buck - my copy's a bit damaged). I'll wait till the publicity machine dies down a bit before I pick that one up. I'd rather spend 5 bucks on a used genesis/NES cart than spend 60 on a game that'll seriously stress my computer's specs.
Q3:A is a beautiful sight on my iMac DV - WC3 would run like all the characters have Palsy.:)
"AtAT concerned about H2G2". I was trying to figure out why Douglas Adams' website would be moving in on "As the Apple Turns' turf." I mean, he WAS a mac advocate (ok, evangelist) but damn.
Well...I've read both and there is a connection to me - both books employ a certain style of Humor: irreverant, tangential and, well blatantly british. I think what the above poster is referring to is a certain edition of "Good Omens" that has "A Direct Descendant of the Hitchhiker's Guide!" plastered on the cover as a marketing ploy. I believe there is a profound connection of some kind, but the abovementioned tagline kinda explodes this for the sake of sales. "Like the Guide? Try this!"
Yes, I understand that record shop employees need to eat...
Record sales clerks make nothing. I was one. You can have the most extensive musical education in the world, they'll still pay you nothing. Last time I checked, Tower Records paid minimum wage (5.25 an hour) and Virgin Megastore paid 7-ish. Keep in mind this is in New York City, where the cost of living is so ridiculously high it's impossible to survive on minimum wage. for instance: minimum wage at 40 hours/week after taxes is about 672 bucks a week. The absolute cheapest I've seen for a room in the outer boroughs is 300ish. Plus utilities, phone, and transport.
I'm not arguing with you or anything, I'm just saying that since there're so many college kids in the city they can afford to pay nothing because there'll always be someone else lookin' for work.Paying employees isn't at all where their money's going.
I'm so tired of ill-mannered, disgusting, rude children in public I could slap them and their parents silly. It's as bad as cell phones, only worse because it propagates.
Dude, I empathise, but seeing them on the street's nothing. I used to work in a toy store. Actually, it was the mother of all toy Stores - FAO Schwarz on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan. On Christmas Eve.
Picture this - hundreds of parents with hundreds of kids. None of the adults giving a rat's ass what their children're up to - they're throwing things, tripping each other, running around. Half of these parents are on cells, the other half are foreign (usually German) tourists with little to no English comprehension. They're all in a rush, they're all stressed out, and they're all extremely loud.
And what did I get to do to these people? I had to smile and be nice to them. My mouth muscles still haven't returned to their normal shape. I firmly believe that it wasn't the kids' fault - I liked most of the kids, or at least I could see how in different circumstances I might've liked them. I despised the parents for not watching their children, for thinking the store was a public place, and for treating us like babysitters and yelling at us when little timmy whacked his sister over the head with a large stuffed gopher.
I work in a library now. Much better class of people.:)
Slashdot Mirror
Well, I got modded as a troll for the above (I really SHOULD have referenced that, I admit) but the analysis of Tommy's marketing techniques comes from Naomi Klein's No Logo. I highly recommend it.
Triv
Tommy Hillfiger did this to promote their clothes in poor black areas of NYC.
Triv
I'm talking specifically about his standup here, the stuff he did in Greenwich village in the mid-sixties when New York was segregated - there were places you couldn't go (Like the New York Athletic Club) if you were Jewish. Very few people have heard this stuff, but it's where most of his more famous quotes come from: "Sex is a beautiful thing between two people. Between five, it's fantastic." etc.
Woody Allen's not funny now, no (although I like some of his movies. Not most.) I agree with that. His straight comedy, on the other hand, was groundbreaking.
Triv
You wanted an interesting discussion, so here goes.
I've tried my hand at a novel before, as my half-shelf of writing books will attest.
Yep, I've got one of those too (just to establish my pseudo-credentials).
It seems to me that the whole reason for a novel, or fiction generally, is to communicate an emotional state to the reader.
Partially. I mean ok, if you graph from far enough away that's true, but that creation of emotional response really needs to be broken down some. Fiction can impart a lesson or moral, can create a sense of location (I'm currently reading Anthony Powell's "Dance to the music of Time" series. 3,000 pages - all you get is an incredibly detailed picture of what inter-bellum Brittan was like. Take that away and you've got a soap-opera) It can craft basic emotion, but honestly if that's all there is, I see no point. Romance novels do that quite well.
To me, fiction is about style. It's not what you say really, it's how it's said. Donald Antrim, Harold Pinter, even Douglas Adams do wonderful things to language. Antrim's a wonderful liar - he shatters his novels in the last 20 pages and you never see it coming. Pinter relies on what's not said, lets you draw your own conclusions - he thinks out his plots and writes around them. Adams was an amazing describer - "His arm muscles moved around each other like volkswagons parking." He made images jump to your imagination. His radio background did that - he had to plant a vivid picture, otherwise Hitch-hiker wouldn't exist.
Continuous feedback, in my mind, should be avoided. You finish the damn thing and then show it to someone. Asking for input chapter by chapter could be confusing. But then again, we're not really talking about a novel here.
Honestly, I'd say go for it and see what happens. If it sucks you'll know what to do differently next time around.
Best of luck.
Triv
use The Onion as a perfect example to fellow Englishmen who claim that America doesn't understand irony, that American humo[u]r isn't funny
Blackadder:Baldrick, do you know what irony is?
Baldrick: Yeah. It's like...goldy, and bronzy...it's just made of iron.
I agree. I hate the body of american humor. Seinfeld wasn't bad and News Radio was fantastic, but most of it I can't stand. Give me Blackadder or the young ones any old day.
That being said...I hate bean with a passion. It's self-indulgent and yes, childish. I find it just as bad as most american popular humor, possibly a shade worse. Woody Allen once said that the thing that makes humor funny is the inherent truth to it. Humor is realising what's wrong with the world and ribbing on it to call attention to it and to lighten the burden. You should listen to some of his old stand-up routines. He, Mort Sahl and Chris Rock took social commentary to new levels. Just a suggestion, YMMV.
Triv
I DIDN'T know that, and now that I do am absolutely thrilled. :)
Why is it every time I decide I need something more from MacOSX it turns out it was already there and I didn't know about it? Damn, they're smooth.
Triv
What I'd like to see is a plain language command line interface combined with a gui of some form. OSX is close, but not quite there. I'd like to be able to call up a command prompt and type "copy all MP3's in *this directory* (the directory chosen by a menu akin to a save dialogue) to *this disk*. I love OSX, but I'm finding more and more that the whole concept of a window manager is grating on me. I'd love a text parser like the old infocom / Sierra games. *Look Around* gives you a directory listing of where you're at, etc. Terminal's close - it guesses what you wanted to do if you mistype. I'd just like it to be...well, smarter.
:)
I don't know how possible this is, I don't even know if it exists. I'm a writer, not a coder. I guess I'm looking for a more...interactive experience. Plain language voice control is a good step, but I feel silly enough yelling at my computer let alone pleading with it. (It's fun to use to play chess tho)
Triv
if only because I've got an AppleLoan and was planning on using a bit of it for 10.2...but then again I'm a student so I get it for 70 (or whatever) anyway.
Actually, that brings up an interesting point: with the rest of that loan I'm probably going to by a refurbished LCD iMac. I save $150 off list (or 100 off education pricing) getting it refurbed, but am I still elligible for the $20 upgrade or does it need to be a NEW computer purchase? I'd rather pay 20 than 70 any ol' day.
Triv
((takes deep breath))
shake is not for the first time computer user.
As has been said thousands of times, Apple ships their computers with a single button mouse because it's less confusing. They aren't stopping you from buying another one (although persnally I'd LOVE an Apple-branded two button optical mouse. rock mouse body left / right for different buttons, but that's just me). No new mac user is going to spend a huge chunk of change on a new computer and then throw down $5000 for a program they've never used.
Think of it this way - would you edit professional level digital video on a computer without a jog wheel? Same idea - it's the right tool for the job.
Triv
this is ridiculously easy and you'd be surprised how good it is. Don't be scared by the list - total cooking time's about 20 minutes.
Need:
1 box chicken-flavored pilaf (rice-a-roni works)
2 tbs butter
1 lime
1/4 cup frsh grated parmesian
1/2 pound chicken breast
2 tbs balsamic vinegar
favorite veggie (snow peas, onions and/or peppers work well)
2 cloves garlic
olive oil
salt, pepper, basil
you do this in two pans simultaneously.
Pan 1:
heat olive oil with garlic. Cook veggie 2-3 minutes. Add chicken. add vinegar, salt, pepper and basil. Cook till done.
Pan 2:
melt butter in pan. Follow insturctions on back of pilaf box. After you add water, squeeze lime into pan. Add yellow chicken-flavored stuff. cook till done.
add pan one to pan two. Mix. top with cheese. feeds three, stuffs two, immobilizes one.
--triv
So, I read your comment. Read your sig. At exactly that moment, that line popped up on the random itunes playlist I'd made (random 25 toad songs). I'm still dazed.
Triv
Does 'media center' sound like apple's 'digital hub' to anyone else? heh. When you can't innovate, rebrand and copy.
Triv
I'd be interested to know exactly WHERE onsite, and what security procedures were in place if you know. Onsite's all well and good, but we're talking about a huge area of land here. "Put these hasmat suits on, ladies and gentleman, the room we're entering is a little 'hot', if you know what I mean." Seriously, how close did these tours come to anything vital? I'll talk to mom and get back to you on this one.
Triv
I've heard news somewhere about warnings for terrorist attacks through the internet, things like possible attacks to nuclear power plants.
My mother used to work for GPU Nuclear, the company that owned Three Mile Island and Oyster Creek among other nuclear reactors. Their security, even way before the whole terrorist threat being brought to the foreground, was practically unbreakable. Nuclear reactors are considered super-high risk by the government - try getting a job there, let alone approaching one. They do extensive background checks through the FBI, and the perimeter is protected by 12-foot high barbed-wire fences and armed guards with sub machine guns and orders to shoot on sight.
The internet services and the computer systems that control the reactors aren't physically connected. That's the easiest way to keep it secure, right? Offer no access.
Pop quiz: do you know one of the major reasons Three Miles Island came so close to a meltdown? their security was too tight. They didn't want to risk anyone getting any major telephony access to the site, so there was only one phone line leading to the outside world. Naturally, it was rather tied up with people calling their families so reenforcements were substantially delayed.
Disclaimer: IANANE (I Am Not A Nuclear Engineer) but I grew up with someone in the business - my mom was THERE when TMI almost melted.
Triv
Mildly OT:
:)
There was a great series (well, mini-series - two albums) put out from "The Bottom Line" in Greenwich Village called "In Their Own Words - A Bunch of Songwriters Sittin' Around Singin'." It was a wonderful collection and it worked like this: the first half of every album was songwriters and one of the songs they'd written (not necessarily the one you'd think) with a short conversation about where the song came from or the status of the industry. The second half of the album was the artists singin' songs they didn't write, stuff they were inspired by and their reasons for their choice. You'd get the oddest combinations: Jill Sobule singing "I Will Survive" for instance. The artists themselves bounce from village institutions (lucinda Williams, Jimmy Webb, Pete Seeger) to then-pop staples (Jill Sobule, Gordon Gano), to legends (Barrett Strong - the guy who actually wrote "I Heard it Through the Grapevine).
Pick 'em up. they're tough to find in stores (prolly out of print) but can be ordered. If you're out of luck email me and we'll see what we can do.
Triv
yep. iMac DV400 here too. Q3A runs beautifully provided you boot into OS9 - I haven't tried it in classic. There's also an OSX version in the works (it's in beta...there's info here). I'd say pick it up - it's certainly cheap enough. Just make sure you've got RAM to spare - I've got 640MB loaded into my system. :)
Triv
On my harddrive somewhere I've got a ska version of the Tetris Theme from the days when napster was still kickin'. First time I heard it I laughed for hours. (FWIW, I've also got a ska version of Hava Nagila lying around too)
Triv
hype, my friend. It's all 'bout hype. When a new game's touted as being the greatest game ever, they can get away with charging an arm and a leg for it. Personally, I just picked up a copy of Q3:a for ten bucks at Software Etc (and broodwar for a buck - my copy's a bit damaged). I'll wait till the publicity machine dies down a bit before I pick that one up. I'd rather spend 5 bucks on a used genesis/NES cart than spend 60 on a game that'll seriously stress my computer's specs.
:)
Q3:A is a beautiful sight on my iMac DV - WC3 would run like all the characters have Palsy.
Triv
"AtAT concerned about H2G2". I was trying to figure out why Douglas Adams' website would be moving in on "As the Apple Turns' turf." I mean, he WAS a mac advocate (ok, evangelist) but damn.
Triv
Well...I've read both and there is a connection to me - both books employ a certain style of Humor: irreverant, tangential and, well blatantly british. I think what the above poster is referring to is a certain edition of "Good Omens" that has "A Direct Descendant of the Hitchhiker's Guide!" plastered on the cover as a marketing ploy. I believe there is a profound connection of some kind, but the abovementioned tagline kinda explodes this for the sake of sales. "Like the Guide? Try this!"
Triv
I've heard he was originally an engineer. Is that true?
He was trained as an electrical engineer.
Triv
Yes, I understand that record shop employees need to eat...
Record sales clerks make nothing. I was one. You can have the most extensive musical education in the world, they'll still pay you nothing. Last time I checked, Tower Records paid minimum wage (5.25 an hour) and Virgin Megastore paid 7-ish. Keep in mind this is in New York City, where the cost of living is so ridiculously high it's impossible to survive on minimum wage. for instance: minimum wage at 40 hours/week after taxes is about 672 bucks a week. The absolute cheapest I've seen for a room in the outer boroughs is 300ish. Plus utilities, phone, and transport.
I'm not arguing with you or anything, I'm just saying that since there're so many college kids in the city they can afford to pay nothing because there'll always be someone else lookin' for work.Paying employees isn't at all where their money's going.
Triv
I'm so tired of ill-mannered, disgusting, rude children in public I could slap them and their parents silly. It's as bad as cell phones, only worse because it propagates.
:)
Dude, I empathise, but seeing them on the street's nothing. I used to work in a toy store. Actually, it was the mother of all toy Stores - FAO Schwarz on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan. On Christmas Eve.
Picture this - hundreds of parents with hundreds of kids. None of the adults giving a rat's ass what their children're up to - they're throwing things, tripping each other, running around. Half of these parents are on cells, the other half are foreign (usually German) tourists with little to no English comprehension. They're all in a rush, they're all stressed out, and they're all extremely loud.
And what did I get to do to these people? I had to smile and be nice to them. My mouth muscles still haven't returned to their normal shape. I firmly believe that it wasn't the kids' fault - I liked most of the kids, or at least I could see how in different circumstances I might've liked them. I despised the parents for not watching their children, for thinking the store was a public place, and for treating us like babysitters and yelling at us when little timmy whacked his sister over the head with a large stuffed gopher.
I work in a library now. Much better class of people.
Triv
eh. close enough. It's 212 736 5000.
Triv
great hotel. Two interesting points:
You know the old song "Pennsylvania six-five-thousand?" It's about that hotel - I'm pretty sure their phone number's still 212-???-6500
Secondly, there's an (admittedly tiny and expensive) electronics store in the lobby. Perfect for this sort of convention.
Oh, and try the chocolate covered strawberries in the hotel restaurant. It's been awhile, but they were wonderful.
Enjoy!
Triv