Your broken lambda sensor is exactly the type of problem I'm talking about. As you know, that sensor isn't even critical. The system should have run from baseline settings. That it was a cheap replacement is of little consolation unless you have a spare in the glovebox and can change it on the side of the road.
I'm not the "carb nut" you think I am. I like EFI despite the breakdowns such as the one I had when the crank sensor died and the one when the fuel pump croaked. If EFI were fully redundant and used common off-the-shelf components, I'd be much less leery of them.
"I know of many EFI Novas which has done over 200,000 miles with only a couple breakdowns."
I know of both EFI and carbed cars that have gone that distance with zero breakdowns.
"My view is that if you look after and service a carbed or injected car very well, it will look after you for a very long time."
With a carb, yes, tune it and clean it. With EFI there are too many things which "don't require maintenance", they just die. Do people think EFI is more reliable because it needs less routine maintenance? If so, then I think they have the wrong definition of reliability.
I'm old enough to remember when 99.9% of cars were carbureted. I don't miss sticking chokes and clogged jets, but those problems wouldn't usually cause a breakdown. The car would just be hard to start or it would run rough until you got a tune-up.
"What criteria do you have for "decent intake gasket" other than "works for 100,000 miles without any user intervention whatsoever"?"
Works for 200,000 miles or more. The plastic junk they use these days just doesn't cut it.
"you simply can't deny that they're the most reliable cars ever built on Earth."
Yes, I can. I'm not talking about how often the glovebox latch fails. I'm talking about the odds of the engine getting fuel and spark when you turn the key.
No. I'm talking about smart guys who completely understand the electronics and make decent money fixing them. But you do raise an interesting point. Car makers are increasingly making it difficult to get the required info. And that too has a negative impact on reliability.
Auto engineers are too fucking stupid these days to even make a decent intake gasket.
"For real-world driving, if reliability is your concern, buy a Japanese sedan."
I'm aware of the drawbacks to carbs and points. Points are easily dried and/or replaced, and carbs will almost always give notice that something isn't right.
Electronic ignitions are not always as easy to sort out as you say. Sure, there's a good chance it's the module, but it could also be the crank sensor.
Most old car problems could be fixed on the side of the road. Not so with the new ones. Having to take down the fuel tank to replace the pump is a good example. And new cars need very specialized parts. Good luck finding them on a sunday, or in a small town.
I must have missed that issue. All I've seen is 3 or 4 years trends.
"There may be different types of failures, but if they're less common, that means "more reliable"."
Not just different types, but so many more of them. And they are not less common. The old parts were just too simple to break. I know many veteran mechanics who swear this is true and it backs up my personal experience. On a long trip through the desert, there's no doubt in my mind which car I would trust not to leave me stranded with the helamonsters.
"However, since cars are better engineered today than they ever have been, modern cars are more reliable."
In general, I think you're wrong on both of those statements. The types of failures that happen today just didn't exist.
"Yes, when I put 3" of water on top of my ECU, it died. Do you think similar failures can't happen to carbureted vehicles?"
How could they happen? There is no ECU, no crank sensor, no MAF sensor, no high impedence circuits, no fuel pump motor, no electrical connections whatsoever. The only enemy of carburetors is fuel contamination, and FI is equally susceptible.
It's the same story with the ignition. The transistors die, crank/cam sensor problems, etc.
Just look at block diagrams of the 2 systems and it should be obvious which is more reliable.
"I had a car's EFI die. I was driving a Miata that didn't have a roof, and I had 3" of water inside the car. The ECU died. I bought another one at a junkyard, plugged it in, and it worked fine."
You're making my point for me. Electronics hate water, extreme heat, extreme cold, vibration and an unstable power supply. The waterlogged miata would have run fine with a carb and non-computerized ignition. You're lucky that you didn't need it in an emergency. There are fewer single points of failure in the old cars and when they do fail, they tend to do it gradually. Another advantage was that the parts were more generic and more restorable.
Not necessarily. I've seen carbureted bigblock engines get better mileage than injected smallblocks.
"You can't get the power to displacement ratios of modern motors with a carburetor."
Power-to-displacement is meaningless. Cubic inches are free. Remember, big engines turn slower than small ones, another reason why they're more reliable.
I didn't say that EFI is useless, just that carbs are more reliable. The computer controlled carbs of the early 80s had some good things going for them. The computer would keep the mixture right, but the engine would still run close to perfect even if the computer died.
The FBI is required by law to make documents available. They claim that there's too much info to be able to do that. Well, I guess they should have thought of that before they started spying on so many innocent people. They have no excuse.
There's no excuse for the Patriot act either. I guess it's not just a Republican thing because the Dems are all too willing to go along with them. Wake up America. Stop waving the flag long enough to see where we're headed.
The executive and legislative branches of the federal government have sold us out. The "terrorists" who founded this country warned us that this could happen. It's our duty to fix it, but I'm not optimistic that we can. We can protect ourselves from foreign enemies. It's the enemies in Washington we're powerless against.
Screw you George Bush. I hope some shell-shocked veteran comes back from Iraq and blows your lying, born-again head off. How's that for "supporting the troops"?
Slashdot Mirror
That's what they call "the monkey shot".
It's perfectly normal for a grown man to share his bed with juvenile monkeys. hee heeeee
Your broken lambda sensor is exactly the type of problem I'm talking about. As you know, that sensor isn't even critical. The system should have run from baseline settings. That it was a cheap replacement is of little consolation unless you have a spare in the glovebox and can change it on the side of the road.
I'm not the "carb nut" you think I am. I like EFI despite the breakdowns such as the one I had when the crank sensor died and the one when the fuel pump croaked. If EFI were fully redundant and used common off-the-shelf components, I'd be much less leery of them.
"I know of many EFI Novas which has done over 200,000 miles with only a couple breakdowns."
I know of both EFI and carbed cars that have gone that distance with zero breakdowns.
"My view is that if you look after and service a carbed or injected car very well, it will look after you for a very long time."
With a carb, yes, tune it and clean it. With EFI there are too many things which "don't require maintenance", they just die. Do people think EFI is more reliable because it needs less routine maintenance? If so, then I think they have the wrong definition of reliability.
I'm old enough to remember when 99.9% of cars were carbureted. I don't miss sticking chokes and clogged jets, but those problems wouldn't usually cause a breakdown. The car would just be hard to start or it would run rough until you got a tune-up.
"What criteria do you have for "decent intake gasket" other than "works for 100,000 miles without any user intervention whatsoever"?"
Works for 200,000 miles or more. The plastic junk they use these days just doesn't cut it.
"you simply can't deny that they're the most reliable cars ever built on Earth."
Yes, I can. I'm not talking about how often the glovebox latch fails. I'm talking about the odds of the engine getting fuel and spark when you turn the key.
No. I'm talking about smart guys who completely understand the electronics and make decent money fixing them. But you do raise an interesting point. Car makers are increasingly making it difficult to get the required info. And that too has a negative impact on reliability.
Auto engineers are too fucking stupid these days to even make a decent intake gasket.
"For real-world driving, if reliability is your concern, buy a Japanese sedan."
Yuk.
I'm aware of the drawbacks to carbs and points. Points are easily dried and/or replaced, and carbs will almost always give notice that something isn't right.
Electronic ignitions are not always as easy to sort out as you say. Sure, there's a good chance it's the module, but it could also be the crank sensor.
Most old car problems could be fixed on the side of the road. Not so with the new ones. Having to take down the fuel tank to replace the pump is a good example. And new cars need very specialized parts. Good luck finding them on a sunday, or in a small town.
"Consumer Reports disagrees with you."
I must have missed that issue. All I've seen is 3 or 4 years trends.
"There may be different types of failures, but if they're less common, that means "more reliable"."
Not just different types, but so many more of them. And they are not less common. The old parts were just too simple to break. I know many veteran mechanics who swear this is true and it backs up my personal experience. On a long trip through the desert, there's no doubt in my mind which car I would trust not to leave me stranded with the helamonsters.
"However, since cars are better engineered today than they ever have been, modern cars are more reliable."
In general, I think you're wrong on both of those statements. The types of failures that happen today just didn't exist.
"Yes, when I put 3" of water on top of my ECU, it died. Do you think similar failures can't happen to carbureted vehicles?"
How could they happen? There is no ECU, no crank sensor, no MAF sensor, no high impedence circuits, no fuel pump motor, no electrical connections whatsoever. The only enemy of carburetors is fuel contamination, and FI is equally susceptible.
It's the same story with the ignition. The transistors die, crank/cam sensor problems, etc.
Just look at block diagrams of the 2 systems and it should be obvious which is more reliable.
"I had a car's EFI die. I was driving a Miata that didn't have a roof, and I had 3" of water inside the car. The ECU died. I bought another one at a junkyard, plugged it in, and it worked fine."
You're making my point for me. Electronics hate water, extreme heat, extreme cold, vibration and an unstable power supply. The waterlogged miata would have run fine with a carb and non-computerized ignition. You're lucky that you didn't need it in an emergency. There are fewer single points of failure in the old cars and when they do fail, they tend to do it gradually. Another advantage was that the parts were more generic and more restorable.
"We are talking about performance cars, right?"
No, we're talking about reliability.
"EFI cars today that, assuming you change the oil occasionally and put fuel in the tank, will run for over 100,000 miles."
Within that 100k miles, there's a good chance that the car will be dead on the road due to something related to EFI or electronic ignition.
"...and flush your fuel economy down the toilet."
Not necessarily. I've seen carbureted bigblock engines get better mileage than injected smallblocks.
"You can't get the power to displacement ratios of modern motors with a carburetor."
Power-to-displacement is meaningless. Cubic inches are free. Remember, big engines turn slower than small ones, another reason why they're more reliable.
I didn't say that EFI is useless, just that carbs are more reliable. The computer controlled carbs of the early 80s had some good things going for them. The computer would keep the mixture right, but the engine would still run close to perfect even if the computer died.
Pushing a car with a broken ignition just makes you tired.
If you want hardened and reliable, then install a carburetor and a magneto.
It's worth a shot. Don't waste your time trying to look under the hood, though.
The FBI is required by law to make documents available. They claim that there's too much info to be able to do that. Well, I guess they should have thought of that before they started spying on so many innocent people. They have no excuse.
There's no excuse for the Patriot act either. I guess it's not just a Republican thing because the Dems are all too willing to go along with them. Wake up America. Stop waving the flag long enough to see where we're headed.
The executive and legislative branches of the federal government have sold us out. The "terrorists" who founded this country warned us that this could happen. It's our duty to fix it, but I'm not optimistic that we can. We can protect ourselves from foreign enemies. It's the enemies in Washington we're powerless against.
Screw you George Bush. I hope some shell-shocked veteran comes back from Iraq and blows your lying, born-again head off. How's that for "supporting the troops"?
Yeah, but which mouse button do I use? Oh, never mind.
AFAIK, the big SGI machines are NUMA, not SMP.
"is it still possible to wreak havoc on modern PC's via non-bios software instructions?"
Why don't you just blast the thing with a shotgun?
Be careful with the abrasion tool or there could be an earth-shattering kaboom.
[ Doctor sits next to Babs on the couch ]
Doctor: I won't beat around the bush, Babs.
Babs: Is it bad?
Doctor: In a nutshell, your uvula is on the fritz. Which reminds me of a little joke. Knock knock!
Babs: Who's there?
Doctor: Babs' uvula.
Babs: Babs' uvula who?
Doctor: I don't know, Babs. But I do know this - you've really let your uvula go to the dogs.
Babs: Yes.. I have..
Sister: I'd like to share this with you, Sis. [ opens a greeting card ] "To Babs: It'll behoove ya', to care for your uvula! Love, Sis."
Babs: Boy, do I hear ya', Sis! From now on, it's strictly good, clean fun. For me and my uvula!
Send in the robotic hooligans.
Their product page doesn't say anything about tampons, but it does say "Do not eat iPod shuffle."
Insanely sick?
... to boldly go where no man has gone before.
"I think Bose is VERY over-rated."
So did everyone who worked at a certain stereo shop back in the 80's. A salesman once told a customer that Bose sucks.
The next day he learned that the customer was Amar Bose himself, and that we were no longer an authorized dealer.
And while it's worse than nickels and dimes, at least they aren't losing whole dollars.