yeah, sure, i don't have to respect or grant others freedom of speach on my private land. i can tell them to shut the eff up or get the hell off my land. the thing is that after a while nobody's going to come over and visit me much. even those that i do allow to _mostly_ speak freely, they'll not want to risk being kicked out. sooner or later they'll find a more respectfull place to conduct their conversations.
even the/. moderation system is flawed with respect to free speach given to individuals, but it's miles better than something where one's posts are silently deleted./. rarely deletes posts iirc.
odds are real good that used laptop came with a harware tied version of some sort of windows. i have no qualms with selling an aftermarket peecee to some schmoe with some type of windows installed. the hardware is tied to some license of windows somewhere, just maybe not the exact key that's now on it, but, whatever. the hdd, mouse, keyboard, ide cable, something came from a machine that had a windows license, just happened to loose the exact code that's all.
the stickers lots of machines are coming with now help out a bit.
another problem is the lack of RW capability. these are worthless for backups. i'm interested in along with buring DVD quality format (as oppose to VCD) of home videos of the kids soccer games, but also in backing up my data and such to optical media. i want to backup to one optical media so i can just leave a disk in the drive and let the backup software run off a scheduled job. then i can manually switch the disk out after a few days and use backup disk #2. the point is i don't want to have to sit there for hours switching disks while the backup software needs more media.
talk about niche markets, your skid was definately a niche market as well. i've picked up throw away machines from the office that were similar specs as what you have; p2/p3. i'll use them fine.
the original topic i believe was discussing building out a new system, and or buying a new system built by a 3rd party. AMD is going to be cheeper than INTL to build out new and to purchase new.
motherboard has more tendancy to fluctuate in price than cpu itself. because there's lots of different manufacturers offering different products to consumers. ECS offers a low cost crap board that 'll get you by, while, or so i've heard ABIT products are generally thought to be slightly better. brands aside, you've got lots of people making different things for a wide range of price. from my prior research, low entry boards were about the same price, i'd expect midrange boards to be similar. anyone can run on pricewatch and check their crappy vendors budget prices and see.
cpu's are made by two folks, INTL and AMD. they have one cost to the retailers (depending on how much you buy, etc). the retailers can play around a bit with those numbers, but not much. you pay less, you'll get less (crap vendor w/ crap return policy etc).
so, do tell, please show the comparable AMD / INTL motherboards that are significantly different in price?
my laptop is an averatec 3225. i honestly haven't timed the battery life under either os. i'm using gentoo linux. i had a radeon 7000 video card on a desktop and it worked fine for 3d (quake3), though i think the rage 128 card i had in another machine got better framerates.
sure, laptop support is lagging for linux. but it does work.
the only thing i haven't gotten yet to work on my laptop is the freaking via video driver. im using the vesa ok right now. no hopes of dri/drm at the moment.
wireless works good using ndiswrapper, software suspend is actually quite old, i think it's in the main tree, at least it was in the kernel sources for my distro. now, swsusp2 (the maintained rewrite of software suspend i think) isn't in my distro's kernel, but patching it in wasn't too hard. i've found the latter to be very very nice to have. you can configure the system to do all the things you'd expect to happen that you just can't do with swsusp. for instance, you want your wifi card to be brought up again when you resume in case you're at a different location. you want usb to be brought up again, because you might have plugged in different devices since you were up last, etc, etc.
i think HP is selling laptop's with SuSE pre installed, you'd think that it would all work nicely if they're doing that. ibm laptops had a good reputation for linux support, but it was always a little fruity from what i could tell.
oh yeah, battery life. it seems to last just fine under linux when the machine is used for most general tasks. you start building kernels and such and that's going to eat power right up. my laptop uses the athlon-M processor i believe which has good support in the kernel. you can scale the processor frequency when it's on battery so that it conserves power.
If one of these processors can compete with a 32 processor Sun Fire 12K in a functional sense, do you think Oracle is going to want less money?
why should one have to pay for software based on how much they're going to use it? that's like saying, you drive further than normal to work each day, so your car is going to cost 120% of the retail value. i only drive 20 miles per week, so mine is 60% retail.
oh yes, i remember software isn't a tangible asset, you "license" the right to use someone else's property. so, it's more like leasing a car where i have to pay extra if i go over on miles, or even pay per mile. but then again, companies don't lease oracle software do they? the buy the license outright (hundreds of thousands of dollars). what they lease is the support. annual maintenance fees. then we're back to the model of buying a car and paying for anual maintenance. but still being restricted to how many miles you can go.
this stuff is really really strange stuff these software licenses.
i never said the answers weren't out there, but they're not documented very clearly, and most times not easy to find.
forums are nice, but oftentimes people like to drag out the discussions. for instance, a discussion on how to get swsusp2 working (resume from disk primarily for laptop ( http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=170548&hi ghlight= ) has 8 pages of posts. a post regarding x.org's latest release was started on Aug 11th, and has 44, count 'um 44 pages of posts. good luck finding answers in there quickly.
also, gentoo's documentation heavily relies on the man pages and general project documentaiton of 3rd party software. configuring x.org for anything other than nvidia (or even their cards)? checkout x.org's configuration explanation. configuring samba, checkout samba's docs. wanna setup and use a firewire hdd? quickly searching the forums gives scattered tidbits of knowledge about how to do it.
again, the docs _are_ fairly good, but when something goes wrong, you're at the mercy of the forums and irc.
the documentation is good as long as things don't go wrong. when things go bad there's nothing that points what you need to do. configuring xorg? good luck. hope you have plenty of hardware manuals around and access to plenty of time to spend in the forums/irc.
he wouldn't have lost a statewide complete recount of the ballots in florida. that doesn't say how many other close states might have swayed either way, but to hold so many ec votes on so few people with such a flawed counting mechanism in place is ludicrous.
actually, under a popular vote, the smaller states get a voice still. and in the case of a popular vote, every voice counts, not just the ones from the swing states. you see, in places like florida, ohio, pennsylvania and maybe Michigan (the swing states) are where each and every vote counts. every vote makes the difference between those ec points. you're not going to see rigorous "get out the vote" campaigns in wyoming or vermont where each electoral vote represenets 200,000 people. in places like ohio, each ec vote represents ~ 500,000 people. but in a state where 20 ec votes are on the line, you'll see that each campaign train stops in to visit more than once per week during.
let the small states have their voice in the senate, and even a similar ec voice in the house, but when it comes to electing the national president, let the people of the nation have the voice.
even the electorial college makes those swing states too important. we all remember the 2000 fiasco. well, after the fact, it seems a study was done and concluded that gore would have won that state had all the ballots been re examined nationwide:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/U.S.-pr es idential-election,-2000
does it really make sense to have the 27 ec votes from florida hinge on ~500 difference in voting numbers? those 500 people make the difference for the entire nation.
i started to use google when it first started to come out. that alongside of yahoo, and whatever other engines there were at the time (maybe lycos). anyway, not only was google faster and cleaner, but the results from my searches matched what i was looking for.
yes, they had the right recipie. the others didn't have that.
Re:KDE and Knome infect X ?
on
The Power of X
·
· Score: 3, Informative
x talks to your video hardware, hopefully through kernel drivers.
kde and knome are layers on top of x. i'm sure you realize that.
x tells the video card to draw stuff on the screen.
kde and knome tell x what that stuff should look like. kde and knome wrap windows with decorations. (title bars, etc).
if a user wants to be able to resize their desktop on the fly (go from 1024x768 to 800x600 resolution perhaps), the functionality has to be available in X, then also able to be controled by the window manager.
likewise, if you want window drop shadows, X has to be able to support that and you can just enable it in your window manager of choice.
this is not at all about slicing an elephant up to stuff into an automobile (where did that come from?) it's about providing kool features that everyone can enjoy and not have to duplicate all over the place. it's about letting the xerver talk to the harware capabilities that are in most semi-modern hardware these days.
finally, stop fearing the advancements of the X server. they're long over due and there's a lot of folks out here that welcome the advancements with open arms!
from someone who doesn't seem to have tried the technology you sound like a credible source. it's something i'd be willing to give a try (assuming good feed back from those who have actually use the tech) if i were to decide to give up cable tv as well.
from what i've experienced, cable service doesn't go down because the servers go down. it goes down because something cut a line somewhere. if it's a server, they would be able to swap it out instantly. if they have any kind of a data center, they already have incredible redundancy built into their network. raid drives, server cluster/farms, etc, etc.
my phone service doesn't go down because i'm making a call that would normally go through a specific area's router that happens to be down (unless that router is my first hop out to the rest of the world). my call gets rerouted to other phone routers and gets to the destination.
tech support, is that like, i'm not getting an ip address, can you help me? i would guess that new technologies have extra tech support avail untill the number of customers start to exceed what staff is available. they want to get the people trained at a reasonable pace while they can. but that's all speculation on my part.
in terms of support is that Fedora enjoys a good year or so under Red Hat's umbrella before becoming community-supported
i thought the whole fedora project was setup so the destop operating system (home user, cheep bastard, whatever) would be completely community driven in terms of all aspects of the product. what packages do we want, how do we want them customized, how do we want them defaulted. if the communiy doesn't really like that blue curve theme going on in kde, then change it. the fact that there's a good year or so under red hat's umbrella is quite disturbing.
just to pipe in on the oo sentiment. as i recall, oo is planning on adding kde integration, so you can build a kde enabled (widget using) version of oo. since oo is gpl, they can choose to use kde. most other applications (mozilla, java, eclipse, etc) use a bdsish license (to enable commercial veriants), and thus can't use kde bindings.
if someone would buy out tt, and license that toolkit under bsd license, (or even lgpl), it would be interesting to see how the "competing" toolkits play out.
right thought. a data center cannot purchase 100$ 3 year warranty ide drives. they have raid storage arrays. also the cost of the disk storage in a data center must also include the cost of the backup device, tapes, and possibly, the maintenance of the tapes (rotation, shipped off site, etc).
16mb of flash memory (maybe they're using less, i didn't read the article of course) is very cheep these days. you can't even give that stuff away. everyone needs 128 or 256 for their digital cameras now.
as usual, the canadians would be more than happy to have the yanks dependant on their electircal power supply.
california is quite a long state with many different climates. i'd imagine those living midway up the state would benefit from this type of technology. the waters around san francisco/oakland are quite cold even at the end of july. they wouldn't have to run a pipe too far off shore to get the waters they'd need.
it's also possible to dig your self a few really deep holes to get cold water from (vertical loop.vs. horizontal loop). the vertical loops tend to cost more because of the drilling needed.
for some reason the current US administration thinks only of drilling up alaska for energy needs. if the administration could perhaps funnel billions of dollars a day (maybe the money they're spending to fight a terrorist war in iraq) into displacing the countrys fossil fuel dependancy, then maybe these "terrorists" would be nothing more than a fly on the wall. it's a long shot sure, but so is fighting a war on terrorists and so is fighting a war on drugs.
doesn't the mpl or one of the many licenses mozilla is released under allow corportations to make closed source versions of the software (bsdish)? or at least wrap the rendering engine with closed source software.
the thing is, that ms's browser is really integrated a LOT. there's a lot of things in that operating system (and applications) that use the ie rendering. this would _break_ a lot of things i'd assume.
not that it would be a bad thing, but somehow users have problems when something touches their backward compatability.
As will be mentioned, GPL hasn't be validated in a US court of law. So that part might not be enforcable.
it hasn't been invalidated either that i'm aware of. it's a standard software license like any other software license. until it's invaldated, assume it's valid. just like the MS license, or Oracle license, or any other software license.
Slashdot Mirror
yeah, sure, i don't have to respect or grant others freedom of speach on my private land. i can tell them to shut the eff up or get the hell off my land. the thing is that after a while nobody's going to come over and visit me much. even those that i do allow to _mostly_ speak freely, they'll not want to risk being kicked out. sooner or later they'll find a more respectfull place to conduct their conversations.
/. moderation system is flawed with respect to free speach given to individuals, but it's miles better than something where one's posts are silently deleted. /. rarely deletes posts iirc.
even the
odds are real good that used laptop came with a harware tied version of some sort of windows. i have no qualms with selling an aftermarket peecee to some schmoe with some type of windows installed. the hardware is tied to some license of windows somewhere, just maybe not the exact key that's now on it, but, whatever. the hdd, mouse, keyboard, ide cable, something came from a machine that had a windows license, just happened to loose the exact code that's all.
the stickers lots of machines are coming with now help out a bit.
another problem is the lack of RW capability. these are worthless for backups. i'm interested in along with buring DVD quality format (as oppose to VCD) of home videos of the kids soccer games, but also in backing up my data and such to optical media. i want to backup to one optical media so i can just leave a disk in the drive and let the backup software run off a scheduled job. then i can manually switch the disk out after a few days and use backup disk #2. the point is i don't want to have to sit there for hours switching disks while the backup software needs more media.
talk about niche markets, your skid was definately a niche market as well. i've picked up throw away machines from the office that were similar specs as what you have; p2/p3. i'll use them fine.
the original topic i believe was discussing building out a new system, and or buying a new system built by a 3rd party. AMD is going to be cheeper than INTL to build out new and to purchase new.
motherboard has more tendancy to fluctuate in price than cpu itself. because there's lots of different manufacturers offering different products to consumers. ECS offers a low cost crap board that
'll get you by, while, or so i've heard ABIT products are generally thought to be slightly better. brands aside, you've got lots of people making different things for a wide range of price. from my prior research, low entry boards were about the same price, i'd expect midrange boards to be similar. anyone can run on pricewatch and check their crappy vendors budget prices and see.
cpu's are made by two folks, INTL and AMD. they have one cost to the retailers (depending on how much you buy, etc). the retailers can play around a bit with those numbers, but not much. you pay less, you'll get less (crap vendor w/ crap return policy etc).
so, do tell, please show the comparable AMD / INTL motherboards that are significantly different in price?
my laptop is an averatec 3225. i honestly haven't timed the battery life under either os. i'm using gentoo linux. i had a radeon 7000 video card on a desktop and it worked fine for 3d (quake3), though i think the rage 128 card i had in another machine got better framerates.
sure, laptop support is lagging for linux. but it does work.
the only thing i haven't gotten yet to work on my laptop is the freaking via video driver. im using the vesa ok right now. no hopes of dri/drm at the moment.
wireless works good using ndiswrapper, software suspend is actually quite old, i think it's in the main tree, at least it was in the kernel sources for my distro. now, swsusp2 (the maintained rewrite of software suspend i think) isn't in my distro's kernel, but patching it in wasn't too hard. i've found the latter to be very very nice to have. you can configure the system to do all the things you'd expect to happen that you just can't do with swsusp. for instance, you want your wifi card to be brought up again when you resume in case you're at a different location. you want usb to be brought up again, because you might have plugged in different devices since you were up last, etc, etc.
i think HP is selling laptop's with SuSE pre installed, you'd think that it would all work nicely if they're doing that. ibm laptops had a good reputation for linux support, but it was always a little fruity from what i could tell.
oh yeah, battery life. it seems to last just fine under linux when the machine is used for most general tasks. you start building kernels and such and that's going to eat power right up. my laptop uses the athlon-M processor i believe which has good support in the kernel. you can scale the processor frequency when it's on battery so that it conserves power.
If one of these processors can compete with a 32 processor Sun Fire 12K in a functional sense, do you think Oracle is going to want less money?
why should one have to pay for software based on how much they're going to use it? that's like saying, you drive further than normal to work each day, so your car is going to cost 120% of the retail value. i only drive 20 miles per week, so mine is 60% retail.
oh yes, i remember software isn't a tangible asset, you "license" the right to use someone else's property. so, it's more like leasing a car where i have to pay extra if i go over on miles, or even pay per mile. but then again, companies don't lease oracle software do they? the buy the license outright (hundreds of thousands of dollars). what they lease is the support. annual maintenance fees. then we're back to the model of buying a car and paying for anual maintenance. but still being restricted to how many miles you can go.
this stuff is really really strange stuff these software licenses.
i never said the answers weren't out there, but they're not documented very clearly, and most times not easy to find.
i ghlight= ) has 8 pages of posts. a post regarding x.org's latest release was started on Aug 11th, and has 44, count 'um 44 pages of posts. good luck finding answers in there quickly.
forums are nice, but oftentimes people like to drag out the discussions. for instance, a discussion on how to get swsusp2 working (resume from disk primarily for laptop ( http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=170548&h
also, gentoo's documentation heavily relies on the man pages and general project documentaiton of 3rd party software. configuring x.org for anything other than nvidia (or even their cards)? checkout x.org's configuration explanation. configuring samba, checkout samba's docs. wanna setup and use a firewire hdd? quickly searching the forums gives scattered tidbits of knowledge about how to do it.
again, the docs _are_ fairly good, but when something goes wrong, you're at the mercy of the forums and irc.
the documentation is good as long as things don't go wrong. when things go bad there's nothing that points what you need to do. configuring xorg? good luck. hope you have plenty of hardware manuals around and access to plenty of time to spend in the forums/irc.
funny site...
sorry /. seems to munge the url.
here's the link
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/U.S.-pres idential-election,-2000
he wouldn't have lost a statewide complete recount of the ballots in florida. that doesn't say how many other close states might have swayed either way, but to hold so many ec votes on so few people with such a flawed counting mechanism in place is ludicrous.
actually, under a popular vote, the smaller states get a voice still. and in the case of a popular vote, every voice counts, not just the ones from the swing states. you see, in places like florida, ohio, pennsylvania and maybe Michigan (the swing states) are where each and every vote counts. every vote makes the difference between those ec points. you're not going to see rigorous "get out the vote" campaigns in wyoming or vermont where each electoral vote represenets 200,000 people. in places like ohio, each ec vote represents ~ 500,000 people. but in a state where 20 ec votes are on the line, you'll see that each campaign train stops in to visit more than once per week during.
r es idential-election,-2000
let the small states have their voice in the senate, and even a similar ec voice in the house, but when it comes to electing the national president, let the people of the nation have the voice.
even the electorial college makes those swing states too important. we all remember the 2000 fiasco. well, after the fact, it seems a study was done and concluded that gore would have won that state had all the ballots been re examined nationwide:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/U.S.-p
does it really make sense to have the 27 ec votes from florida hinge on ~500 difference in voting numbers? those 500 people make the difference for the entire nation.
Google only cleaned up the look of web searching
i started to use google when it first started to come out. that alongside of yahoo, and whatever other engines there were at the time (maybe lycos). anyway, not only was google faster and cleaner, but the results from my searches matched what i was looking for.
yes, they had the right recipie. the others didn't have that.
x talks to your video hardware, hopefully through kernel drivers.
kde and knome are layers on top of x. i'm sure you realize that.
x tells the video card to draw stuff on the screen.
kde and knome tell x what that stuff should look like. kde and knome wrap windows with decorations. (title bars, etc).
if a user wants to be able to resize their desktop on the fly (go from 1024x768 to 800x600 resolution perhaps), the functionality has to be available in X, then also able to be controled by the window manager.
likewise, if you want window drop shadows, X has to be able to support that and you can just enable it in your window manager of choice.
this is not at all about slicing an elephant up to stuff into an automobile (where did that come from?) it's about providing kool features that everyone can enjoy and not have to duplicate all over the place. it's about letting the xerver talk to the harware capabilities that are in most semi-modern hardware these days.
finally, stop fearing the advancements of the X server. they're long over due and there's a lot of folks out here that welcome the advancements with open arms!
from someone who doesn't seem to have tried the technology you sound like a credible source. it's something i'd be willing to give a try (assuming good feed back from those who have actually use the tech) if i were to decide to give up cable tv as well.
from what i've experienced, cable service doesn't go down because the servers go down. it goes down because something cut a line somewhere. if it's a server, they would be able to swap it out instantly. if they have any kind of a data center, they already have incredible redundancy built into their network. raid drives, server cluster/farms, etc, etc.
my phone service doesn't go down because i'm making a call that would normally go through a specific area's router that happens to be down (unless that router is my first hop out to the rest of the world). my call gets rerouted to other phone routers and gets to the destination.
tech support, is that like, i'm not getting an ip address, can you help me? i would guess that new technologies have extra tech support avail untill the number of customers start to exceed what staff is available. they want to get the people trained at a reasonable pace while they can. but that's all speculation on my part.
let me go verify my LD_LIBRARY_PATH has everything it needs before i get started.
in terms of support is that Fedora enjoys a good year or so under Red Hat's umbrella before becoming community-supported
i thought the whole fedora project was setup so the destop operating system (home user, cheep bastard, whatever) would be completely community driven in terms of all aspects of the product. what packages do we want, how do we want them customized, how do we want them defaulted. if the communiy doesn't really like that blue curve theme going on in kde, then change it. the fact that there's a good year or so under red hat's umbrella is quite disturbing.
just to pipe in on the oo sentiment. as i recall, oo is planning on adding kde integration, so you can build a kde enabled (widget using) version of oo. since oo is gpl, they can choose to use kde. most other applications (mozilla, java, eclipse, etc) use a bdsish license (to enable commercial veriants), and thus can't use kde bindings.
if someone would buy out tt, and license that toolkit under bsd license, (or even lgpl), it would be interesting to see how the "competing" toolkits play out.
right thought. a data center cannot purchase 100$ 3 year warranty ide drives. they have raid storage arrays. also the cost of the disk storage in a data center must also include the cost of the backup device, tapes, and possibly, the maintenance of the tapes (rotation, shipped off site, etc).
16mb of flash memory (maybe they're using less, i didn't read the article of course) is very cheep these days. you can't even give that stuff away. everyone needs 128 or 256 for their digital cameras now.
as usual, the canadians would be more than happy to have the yanks dependant on their electircal power supply.
.vs. horizontal loop). the vertical loops tend to cost more because of the drilling needed.
california is quite a long state with many different climates. i'd imagine those living midway up the state would benefit from this type of technology. the waters around san francisco/oakland are quite cold even at the end of july. they wouldn't have to run a pipe too far off shore to get the waters they'd need.
it's also possible to dig your self a few really deep holes to get cold water from (vertical loop
for some reason the current US administration thinks only of drilling up alaska for energy needs. if the administration could perhaps funnel billions of dollars a day (maybe the money they're spending to fight a terrorist war in iraq) into displacing the countrys fossil fuel dependancy, then maybe these "terrorists" would be nothing more than a fly on the wall. it's a long shot sure, but so is fighting a war on terrorists and so is fighting a war on drugs.
doesn't the mpl or one of the many licenses mozilla is released under allow corportations to make closed source versions of the software (bsdish)? or at least wrap the rendering engine with closed source software.
the thing is, that ms's browser is really integrated a LOT. there's a lot of things in that operating system (and applications) that use the ie rendering. this would _break_ a lot of things i'd assume.
not that it would be a bad thing, but somehow users have problems when something touches their backward compatability.
As will be mentioned, GPL hasn't be validated in a US court of law. So that part might not be enforcable.
it hasn't been invalidated either that i'm aware of. it's a standard software license like any other software license. until it's invaldated, assume it's valid. just like the MS license, or Oracle license, or any other software license.