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Review of Yoper Linux v2.1
Anonymous Coward writes "An interesting review of Yoper Linux has just been posted posted at linuxforums.org. Yoper Linux really does look like it could be the first serious competition Gentoo has had in a long time."
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The first serious competion for what? The coolest new distro? That statement seems to imply that Gentoo is clearly the best around right now. I really like Gentoo, but I don't think I could dismiss all the other distros that easily.
Obviously this is not as good as Gentoo. If they were running Gentoo, they would have spent 14 hours messing with USE tags so the poor server could keep up with a slashdotting ;)
He who laughs last is stuck in a time dilation bubble.
..... because I'm upset I can't RTFA. :)
Yoper Linux really does look like it could be the first serious competition Gentoo has had in a long time.
don't you mean Debian ??
What? No Slackware?! //and so on
Yoper Linux really does look like it could be the first serious competition Gentoo has had in a long time.
In other obscure news about competition that no one cares about, Bob's Fatburger is launching a new ham & swiss sandwich that may prove to be stiff competition against Arby's in the war of the cold cut sandwich arena.
Ruby on Rails Screencast
I am gonna say "no" ..
but then, the article is slashdotted..
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
Introduction
Ok, this is my first review and the kickoff to Linuxforums.org's Editorial Content Section, so lets get started. Yoper Linux is built around the idea of light, compact and wicked fast distro that is available to the average Linux user. Its 100% GPL compliant and the full ISO is free to anyone with an Internet connection. Yoper's popularity has absolutely skyrocketed with the release of v2.1 and is currently sitting at #18 on the distrowatch.com Page Hit Ranking.
Yoper's claim to fame is the speed at which it runs, out of the box. Yoper is a distro that targets the desktop Linux user from a brand new convert to the legendary guru. The latests release (2.1) improves upon the the installer, making it more user friendly and now includes non-destructive partitioning.
Speed applies to every aspect of the system. The install was completed, start to finish, in under 15 minutes. Once the system booted, the kernel took little time to load. It may seem little slow as compared to a custom kernel (like one created in a Gentoo install), but thats to be expected with a universal build. Once KDE started to load I noticed the speed kick. It was loaded in less than 10 seconds - which is good compared to my lovingly tweaked Gentoo system. Applications opened almost instantly and the overall feel of the system is similar to that of a fine Italian sports car, suave and fast.
The Yoper team accomplished this with the use of several methods that have always been available to those with enough experience, but generally beyond the average user, They include, but are by no means limited too:
Several performance enhancing patches to the kernel
All packages compiled specifically for the i686 against the latest and greatest of the gcc
All the binaries were 'stripped' (ie. all the debug symbols and other nonessential data are removed.) in order to create an even faster base system.
Prelinking
A short description of prelinking:
Due to Yoper's success, the process has been getting a lot of talk recently, and I was intrigued by the mechanics of this intriguing little utility. The results are readily evident: incredible startup times, even for massive applications. Basically whenever you start a program it has to find all the libraries that it will draw upon and link them to the correct location in the program. Prelinking does this when you run the Prelink, so when you start the program, 1/2 of all the startup work is already completed. Now should you be a developer, you will need to re-run the prelink code (a simple command available on their website) more frequently. They recommend it after major upgrades (such as KDE 3.2 to 3.3).
Installation
After downloading the single ISO and burning it, I booted into a BASH prompt. This might sound intimidating to those newer to Linux, but wherever a user is required to type something in there are directions included. In this instance it indicated 'type Yoper to begin setup'. A little fiddling reviled that the prompt had a few basic commands such as mount and access to Vim. Ready to begin the install, I typed Yoper, pressed enter and was greeted by the installer. Overall the feel of the install was similar to that of Slackware and comfortable enough for any user: even a Linux 'newbie'. While some may frown on the lack of a GUI installer, the Yoper team wanted to keep this all on one CD, resulting in a GUIless install. After a few simple steps (the installer holds your hand through the entire process) you arrive at qtparted, a graphical partition tool. The best part of this is that it not only makes the hardest part of the install possible through a simple GUI, but allows for non-destructive partitioning.
After that I hopped through the selection of a few mount points, selected a file system from ext2, ext3, reiserfs, and reiser4 then the install started. No progress bar or indicter of any sort was present, but the installer notified you that it would take 5-15 minutes. The lack of a package selection menu was a little surpr
I would not jump to the conclusion that it's competition for Gentoo just because it's also fast.
We don't need 100 distros. Damn, we don't even need 10.
Yes, we do need them.
The thing you're missing is (as Agent Smith would say) purpose. Many of these distros exist purely because they meet a specific purpose. For example, there are distros used for desktop computers, distros for firewalls, distros for embedded devices, distros for clustering, distros for servers, etc.
Put another way: choice is good!
Now, had you said "we don't need 100's of desktop distros" I might have agreed.
Does anyone else think it's strange that a story about yoper has no link to their home page, but does have a link to gentoo?
If it's half as good as Final Fantasy Linux 7, I'll be happy.
yo.per - n. One who yopes. See "yope" yope - v. slang term from 1980's era to describe slow communication with poor diction. Warning: mysql_connect(): Too many connections in /usr/local/apache/vhosts/linuxforums.org/www/forum /db/mysql4.php on line 49
Corel Link
Yoper Linux really does look like it could be the first serious competition Gentoo has had in a long time.
For what? "The worst installer of all time", or "The most time consuming distro ever".
a) It's a copyright violation
b) It's karma whoring
Yoper Linux really does look like it could be the first serious competition Gentoo has had in a long time.
uhhhh have you heard of Red Hat, Mandrake, Suse, Debian, Turbo, etc...? First real competition...phht! Gimme a break.
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
Well... is it?
We do need more than 10 distros, just as we need many languages. The best for you is not the best for me, as there are thousand ways to use Linux for, and each distro can be better for a specific need. There are distros good for low resource computers, others for embeded systems, others for firewalls and simple servers, others for the end-users migrating from Windows, others that compiles everything from source, etc.
I, for one, prefer Slackware: it's simpler, and it makes it easier (for me!) to maintain.
As someone who runs Gentoo on his home machine, I have to agree with some of the sentiment expressed around here: beat Gentoo at what?
I think Gentoo is a great desktop distribution for someone who has a lot of time on their hands and is capable of doing things manually. However, I wouldn't recommend Gentoo for use on an important sever, nor would I recommend Gentoo to use for someone who doesn't have a lot of time or who is incapable of doing some complex things by hand.
I think Gentoo right now is one of the better hobby/tweaking distributions, but I really don't think that's the usershare Yoper is going after.
It's worth comparing http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=yope r to http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gent oo . atleast in the package versions it seems that yoper is ahead of gentoo.
I should go ahead and post to clear that up since people are saying it /.'d already. Yoper is built to be fast, and is supposed to be faster than Gentoo by what looks like 50% or more. A serious speed advantage.
I was thinking the same thing until I read the article. The blurb is a bit confusing. I think it supports apt as well.
It gets performance by pre-linking the binaries. Somewhere between dynamic and static there must exist "prelinking".
Looks like a fun idea that should be applied to VM languages dynamically if it isn't already.
Karma Clown
there's plenty of competition in the linux sector. Now if we could just get someone to make a distro that actually competes with windows we'd be all set. If you want to flame me, please include an answer as to why in the world I would have to edit my yum.conf file to install a dvd player and compare that to the difficulties of installing the same software on windows. If you are stumped as to why I ask this, then employ your sage wisdom and explain why the average user would be excited about spending hours on usenet trying to figure out how to accomplish the most mundane tasks on linux. I love linux - it's my swiss army knife of choice but a desktop replacement? Yeah, I'm off topic, bite me.
Agreed. What I see as one of the great things about Linux is that it can be customized in so many ways. Of course nothing will fit your needs exactly like an LFS, but having a lot of distros means you're more likely to find one that is pretty close to what you need.
So when can I emerge this prelinker yoper is using?
Gentoo was good at their marketing, and that was by winning over Linux users / newbies by packaging games with their product which most distros don't.
Personally, Gentoo is crap in my opinion.. Sure building from source is nice and all, but the speed difference is barely noticeable comparing between other distros. Them redefining the standard UFS is complete crap and doesn't make sense on WHY?
The LPI cert info they offer through IBM is horrible, incorrect in some areas and based mainly around their distro.
The only thing they got going for them is the multiple architecture support.
Yoper's website works fine for me. Or are you refering to linuxforums.org?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The story is a dupe, the topic is boring, the facts weren't checked. WE GET IT!!
http://apt.yoper.com/torrent/yoper.torrent
Help save their gracious FTP mirrors.
There's nothing wrong with variety here. The more diversity there is, the more likely natural consumer selection is to result in the dominance of truly better software for everybody.
Its funny - I haven't really tried open office at all lately, since I use Linux exclusively for server tasks (and we have full MSFT licenses), but this particular snippet caught my eye:
... pretty sad.
Yoper's speed is evident mostly in everyday functions, such a opening a OpenOffice document. I have always found OpenOffice.org to open painfully slowly, but the start time in Yoper was impressive. In most systems it can take 15-20 seconds to start the massive OpenOffice, Yoper manages this in about 10 (on my machine, these are not official numbers from OpenOffice, just mine).
His machine is a P4/1.8ghz/512mb box. Is it really noteworthy when an office suite opens in <sarcasm>about 10 seconds</sarcasm%gt; on a machine of that class? Really? Wow. That's
Other than that, the experience looked promising. Does anyone know if it works as well with apt as Debian does? Or as poorly?
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
1.yoper does not compile from sourcecode for the instalation as Gentoo does.
2.the instalation tools are quite dated and lack features, compared to the detail and abilitys of other major distros like Slackware (my fav) redhat/mandrake/ thier installers.
when i tested yoper-2.1 i had to use the parameter of yos nousb because yoper choked on my usb ports and would not finish booting the CD to start install...
Care you elaborate? I've toyed around with Slackware, Redhat, and Debian (in the form of Xebian and KnoppMyth - a Knoppix re-package) and it seems that if you install the right packages any one could be made to function as well as another (of course my experience may be limited). What distros are better than others at what specific tasks? -Mike
... it's more about picking only what you want/need in your box, speed comes from choosing bleeding-edge compilation flags, if you choose them, as well as lower overhead from running only what you need. As an individual who's built a few Gentoo systems, I can tell you the install is anything but speedy ;)
except its not the yoper web site (which is up and running just fine)... thats like saying debian sucks because a site that posted a review of debian got /.'d...
btw, yes, this is being typed from yoper right now, been using it for a few days, its awesome. Yoper for desktops, debian for servers, thats my story and i'm stickin' to it.
replacing it with NEW Folger's Crystals! (lets see if they notice the difference)
how can yoper claim to be "100% gpl compliant" when it includes nvidia's drivers?
--BlueLines "The cost of living hasn't affected it's popularity." -anonymous
Results 1 - 10 of about 3,130,000 for gentoo [definition]. (0.11 seconds)
Well there you have it people gentoo is the clear winner...
here are some more for comparison: ... o_0
Results 1 - 10 of about 11,500,000 for suse [definition]. (0.19 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 26,300,000 for debian [definition]. (0.14 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 122,000,000 for windows [definition]. (0.31 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 3,350,000 for google os. (0.23 seconds)
[blue] - The Ministry of Information approved this message...
I've been using Mandrake for over 1 year. But am happy I've changed completely to Yoper. It's much faster; no more 15 seconds waiting for an app to fire. Also being part of a constantly evolving new distro makes it all more personal and significant. Sure there are packages missing. So we always can learn to build our own and add it to Yoper's repository. Rather than just sit back and complain. It's a very friendly and welcoming community there, no power battles or l33t t4lk - pretty cool methinks.
> a) It's a copyright violation
True, but there's no down-mod for that.
> b) It's karma whoring
Maybe, but there's no down-mod for that either.
c) It's informative
Links to forum-posts are idiocy. Of course the article is no longer reachable, and wont be the next hours/days.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Maybe what you need is a metadistribution (see first paragraph), then. That way, your firewall, desktop, and cluster can all be managed the same way and and you don't have to go through special effort to change a piece of software to work with all of them.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Something not mentioned in the review: you can also prelink in Gentoo. How do prelinked Gentoo systems stack up to Yoper? I got a big speed kick on startup times when I prelinked my Gentoo system.
Note also, performance != app startup time execlusively.
Oh yeah. If you're intimidated by a Bash prompt, you're gonna LOVE vim.
Ok, Lemme just type--
BEEP!
What the...
BEEP! BEEP! BEEP!
Ah! I just want to edit the--
BEEP! BEEP! BEEP! BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!!!
AHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Does anyone remember the jerk from Yoper who was badmouthing the /. crowd? Yoper wanted $99 for their distro, and they bragged heavily. People started to call BS, and the Yoper jerk went berserk. That was the first time I ever heard of Yoper and the last time I cared. At least they learned what bad PR can do for business (Yoper is free now--ha!).
Does no-one remember back when Yoper went 1.0 and was on Slashdot? Seemed pretty suspicious if you ask me.
Since the site is slashdotted, it's hard to see if anything has changed in a year.
Why not a few good distros with kickbutt installers that let you install EXACTLY what you want? Instead of everyone wasting their time working on 100+ piddly distros? A few distros (light version=as small as possible, general version=bloat to the max, and maybe a newbie friendly version). Don't get me wrong, choice is a great thing, but at what point are people just wasting their time making YAD (Yet Another Distro)? And if I were creating software, which distro should I pick? Technically software should work great on any distro, but with so many distros/libraries out there, "out of the box" installs seem to be getting less and less common, which is a huge deal to linux newcomers.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
It's about time we had another souped up, optimized to the core, compiled from source, fear my USE flags distro to provide competition with Gentoo.
;)
You know what they say... Monopoly is never a good thing
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers
what about SourceMage? I use Gentoo, but I was considering SourceMage along the way, and it looks like a valid competitor.
to be distinguished from 'yooper', which denotes a denizen of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
for the dense: 'yoo pee' is the phonetic pronunciation of U.P. 'yooper' follows accordingly.
yooper linux would have more to do with beer than operating systems, is my guess
Fast Yoper Torrent from the Linux Mirror Project:6 -2.1.0-4.iso.torrent
http://www.tlm-project.org/torrents/yoper/yos-i68
And on installing use the default Reiserfs(3). Don't use the new Reiser4, it's much slower, there's messages on Yoper.com forum. There is also some info about slow Reiser4 on Lwn:
http://lwn.net/Articles/99408/
Sounds like an OS X feature. Funny thing is, in Tiger, the guys at Apple figured out how to make prebinding (OS X "prelinking") completely useless and slower than the new Tiger loader. Nice to see that Linux is ahead of the curve. ;-)
That yoper.
Yoper really is the next best thing to Gentoo for me, as far as Linux goes.
It really is a slick system, and very deserving of the accolades it's starting to receive. To me, it's the distribution to judge others by (With the obvious exception of Gentoo, and other source-based distros).
If they can continue the momentum and build their software catalog (meaning compiled, optimized packages for Yoper), I can see Yoper easily winning the Desktop Linux race.
Oh, and for the record, if you've heard of any problems with their support, or OSS issues, it appears that this is very much a thing of the past. I was there for the beta testing, and I was one of the those who didn't like what happened after the release of v 1.0, and I can safely say that it appears that Yopers seen the light, and has remedied any problems they may have had. The Yoper community is also very good.
Check it out! You know you've installed dozens of Linux distributions already... What's one more going to hurt? It could change your usage of Linux.
It must be ph33red.
Do you mean this Fatburger, my favorite burger place? ;-) Of course some people say that In-n-Out is better, but I totally disagree! And Fatburger would NEVER offer ham & swiss sandwich, do not troll us, true believers! ;-)
/., after all!
Paul B.
P.S. Yes, I do think that there is place in this world for many burger joints, even obscure ones; as well as for many "experimental" distros. From this article someone will learn about that "prelinking" thing and it might make his day. It's
I've toyed around with Slackware, Redhat, and Debian (in the form of Xebian and KnoppMyth - a Knoppix re-package) and it seems that if you install the right packages any one could be made to function as well as another (of course my experience may be limited). What distros are better than others at what specific tasks?
Yes, you can take a Debian box and transform it easily into a a firewall/proxy. But if you want some specific functionality, such as single button poweron/poweroff for a headless firewall box, without worryng whether its properly shutdown, or you want to admin it from a web browser, etc, you will have to toy with it until it works the way you want.
Other specific distros will do that right from install. No need to tweak. That's the idea behind so many distros.
Need a quick and dirty web/smtp/pop3 server, there's probably a distro for that. Just pop in the cd and install.
Heck, a lot of these distros are variants from the ones you mentioned. Think of them as pre-configured versions of Redhat, Debia, etc.
No sig
This new distro looks interesting (runs KDE fast .. though I have long since switched to Mac OS X).
But I use gentoo on servers because of 1) the flexibility.. finally I can *remove* the crap dependencies like kerberos, etc, on package, and I can add the stuff I need (mbox vs. maildirs, etc).
and 2).. it is SO EASY to make ebuilds, and they really do keep track of the files correctly because of the sandbox concept. On our servers we use custom ebuilds to keep versions stable, we deploy apps to remote sites as ebuilds that automatically pull in dependencies, etc. I'm always amazed at how simple it is to whip up an ebuild. Just write a shell script that installs the files, basically. Compared to the bloated overengineered hell that is RPM, I was quite please.
I think people who think of gentoo as "that distro that lets you choose CFLAGS" are totally missing the point.. it's about flexibility and ease of building distros (i.e., a "meta-distro").
This goes for food as well as Linux, although there are always devotees that have loyalty to something unusual.
Linux would benefit from less brand confusion for desktop users, but benefits from the configurability for purposes not visible to desktop users (back end servers, set top boxes, embedded servers, mars rovers, etc).
As it is, there aren't that many well-known brands on the desktop: Linspire, Fedora, Suse, Debian, Knoppix, Gentoo, Lycoris, JDS, and for the Western world that is about it. In other parts of the world (e.g. TurboLinux, Star Linux) some of these are replaced by others, but the total number in any one market that have any great presence on the desktop are in the range of 5 to 10.
Last time I checked debian was still around and the talk of the town about the new gentoo killer was ark linux.
/. how cool they are. (Pimp my box or something).
./ article simply doesn't make any sense.
I haven't tested yoper yet so I can't really comment on it's merrits, it looks interesting though. But gentoo is about a lot more then speed. In fact speed doesn't play a huge role for most users, only for some skript kiddies who think they are uber17337 when they use gentoo and who have to blare out on
Anyway, Yoper looks interesting, but the last sentence of the
, , , but not ... should have RTFM.
i'm all for experimental distros that push innovation forwards - take the boot-from-cd version as an example - but Linux will suffer if the supple stagnates with very similar distros - for one thing talent and support is more sparsely spread between the communities... Which is why I wonder: this distro sounds a lot like a user centric version of Debian. Same package management, no compiling, pretty damn fast. So remind me. Why was it ever created in the first place, as opposed to the developers working on e.g. an install script that configures a Debian box for Joe public? And why compare it to Gentoo?
Of course, if you *install* the *right* packages and *configure* them *properly* you should get similar results.
But then, you will have different degrees of effort achieving that with different distributions, giving each possible combination of task, skills and personal tastes.
Some distros have its emphasis in users with little knowledge, others are for Unix veterans, others for busy sysadmins with enterprise needs...
Want a more Unix like, structurally simple distro for small servers or hobbist use? Get Slackware. Want a sophisticated package management system and large, granular package collection? Get Debian. Want a distro with Enterprise features out of the box? Get SUSE. Want a distro for average end users? Get Xandros.
(Other popular distros/scenarios left out for the sake of simplicity).
Got Pike?
Funny group to settle for. I see you're very PC focused. Of the distros you picked, it's amazing that you selected the three with the _most_ overlap in functionality.
I don't want any of those running on my cell phone or my wireless router. I don't want any of those running on my company's beowulf cluster. I'm not even sure I want any of those running my firewall (though Debian is). I don't think foreign language people particularly care for those either, since they're quite european language focused.
How the hell did you come up with that list?
Your URL is borked. Try this one:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=56077&cid=544Greg T.
Oh c'mon. Some guy writes a review, and now all of a sudden Yoper is all that, and more. Puhleeze. As others have mentioned here, we needs lots of distros -- it is good for the community. The real value of Yoper is that it will influence the bigger distro's to rip off it's ideas and become assimilated into the collective. That's how it works. Or else the idea was bad and it dies naturally and nobody mourns. Either way is fine with most everybody.
I first tried Yoper two months ago and was an immediate and complete convert. You cannot possibly fathom how snappy this OS feels unless you've used Gentoo. I was absolutely blown away. It really breathes new life into my aging P3 500MHz laptop. Unlike Gentoo, you don't have to spend a week on the install to get a fast system.
On top of that, the install is one rather vanilla disc, allowing you to pick and choose other packages you want after installing. Why waste the extra time downloading three or four ISOs mostly filled with packages you don't need when you can download precompiled packages for the software you DO need at your leisure?
Yep, I'm a Yoper fanboy. I liked the distro so much I joined the team and started putting together packages. This is another area Yoper is good for: the entire team from the creator down to the lowly packagers will take time out of their day to help people in the forum. The team also welcomes anyone with useful skills. If you can use vi and run a shellscript, you can contribute to Yoper and the team invites you to do so. No BS distro politcs. Hands-on help for new users.
$ whatis themeaningoflife
themeaningoflife: not found
"the linux name" ?
Are you implying that "the linux name" has value, or potentially could have value?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
These guys can't be beaten in how _quickly_ an install takes place. Gentoo can't be beaten in how _long_ an install takes.
I cannot believe the press this amateurish attempt at an distribution is getting, the guy hasnt developed any technology, he just recycles parts from other distributions. His "optimisation" is basically a process that you can do on any other linux system, and he compiles his packages so that they only run on modern on processors, of course rh/slack cant do this, as people would be screaming if they cant use their systems on that old pentium as a router.
Please people, read the crap he writes on his website, the guy is an idiot. Granted, he seems to have a gift for marketing (I really dont know how he's pulled this off, given the crap he writes and his shoddy amateurish product).
well, really, the poster of the article meant the first serious competition for the niche that Gentoo fills: a built-from-source, performance-tuned distro.
Standing at the very edge of my imagination, I peered into the inky void and realised -- I couldn't think up a new sig.
yap yap yap, try it b4 you critisize.
l m-project.org/yos-i686-2.1.0-4.iso.torrent
so many people here are saying this is NOT that great but have not tried it. so here
http://iso.linuxquestions.org/download/http/www.t
a nice torrent for you to play with
So Yopper is the first serious competition that Gentoo has had? I for one cannot wait to try the latest distro that has:
- A million and one optimisations, all designed to give you an extra 0000.1 mhz worth of performance, all capabale of making your kernel panic within seconds
- A flawed packaging system that is incompatible with every other system out there
- A million and one fanboys posting their distro zealotry to any article with a hint of the 'L' word on Slashdot.
SUPER!
The entire GUI is not entirely copied, but the yoper control panel looks awfully reminiscent of another system preferences interface. No wonder yoper is so great!
Its 100% GPL compliant and the full ISO is free to anyone with an Internet connection.
There have been heated discussions in the past (on the Yoper forums and here, I believe) as to whether or not Yoper is actually compliant with the GPL. When last I checked, Yoper was distributing their compiled ISO's but we couldn't get current sources from anywhere. Attempts at getting this from them was met with stiff resistance and arguing. All we were able to locate was sources from their "beta" version (old).
Since their site is currently Slashdotted, can anyone confirm whether this is still the case?
Greg T.
Just to recall that if one is looking for a source based distro, there are very good alternatives to Gentoo like Sourcemage (I'm using it with great pleasure everyday) or Lunar-linux (haven't really tried it).
-- We are Microsoft. Linux is irrelevant. Openness is futile. Prepare to be assimilated. --
In most systems it can take 15-20 seconds to start the massive OpenOffice, Yoper manages this in about 10
On this computer I have Gentoo 2004.2 and FreeBSD 5.2.1.
OpenOffice.org launches way faster on FreeBSD.
I think taking his list and adding Gentoo and Slackware would do it. Gentoo for obvious reasons; Slackware 'cuz it's so well-built and "out of the box finished". Maybe take Mandrake off - when I tried it (around 9-ish - "dolphin") it was slow, and somewhat ugly.
#include IMHO_disclaimer;
Stripping the binaries doesn't speed up anything, except possibly disk seek times because the smaller files take up fewer total cylinders.
Xorg is just a fork of Xfree because of a licence change. Xorg is allready better supported and developed then XFree, so i think this is a minus.
I care alot about packages/ports in distributions so I wouldn't like Yoper anyway i guess. I'm also a Gentoo user
I think Yoper is the best and the fastest Linux distro around, and oh yes Gentoo users are all pompus ass's
You know, NOT ONE of these "Corel links" has worked that I've seen.
:P
If you are going to post a mirror, post something that works, okay?
"The boot time is a tricky one to measure, but if you clock the time taken to reach a login prompt, Gentoo wins but not buy much, about a 7 second difference in my test. But once you go to starting X, Yoper leaps ahead and can have me browsing the web, editing an office doc, and chatting in the IRC before Gentoo got me into a GUI."
I'm not sure what this person is talking about here. Is he talking about KDE again? Well, I use fluxbox and it takes under 2 seconds to get into my X system after typing "xinit". (most of which goes to driving my nVidia card)
I run Gentoo and I don't see where the 'competition' lies, exactly.. I'm sure you can make Gentoo's KDE as 'fast' as Yope's since it can do all those things Yope does with gcc, when you emerge the KDE package. I feel this article misinformed some people really, this distro looks pretty weak in my opinion.
... One of the nicest things about Gentoo compared to other distros is that they're not zealots regarding non-GPL stuff like nvidia-kernel.. It reduces my agita by a mild but discernible amount, and for that I am happy.
Singing hits like Grandpa Got Run Over By A Beer Truck and Super Dooper Yooper Love Machine?
No? ummm.....
As opposed to...?
Yoper is "built from source" targeting i686 machines the same way that Mandrake rebuilds RedHat packages for i585 machines. Yoper is a binary distribution that uses apt-get for package management, a la Debian. It's just more finely tuned.
Yoper isn't competition for Gentoo as far as niche is concerned. Gentoo is a source distro. Yoper is JABD.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
I think what he meant is that it competes with gentoo on speed. Being easy to install/use it is not targetting the same niche as gentoo but it is targeting 10 times as many users as Linux currently has.
I used Gentoo for a year then switched to Debian. I found my systems (three of them) to be the same speed or faster and I'd used recommended flags in Gentoo and even tried pre-linking. Yes, the Red Hat I'd tried was very slow but Debian is fine on my PIII-M 700 with a full Gnome 2.6 GUI.
The best part about Debian is the huge number of repositories and the speed of apt-getting and jumping right into the software just downloaded. That's the speed that's meaningful to me: the latest software (in "sid/unstable" of course) installed quickly with updates available every night.
Traditional distros that can't be kept updated (and wholesale upgraded!) as easily as Debian just seem way too slow to me... why wait for the next "release"?
that many of the icons in Yoper's config utility are exact copies (not lookalikes, copies) of standard MacOS X icons? They've even got the stylized Mac face on two images, for crying out loud! Methinks someone is begging for a call from Apple Legal here.
Tried this about a couple of weeks ago after all the hype about 2.1.
- Installation is really alpha-quality and not very communicative of what exactly it wants one to do. Some noticeable errors in the dialog windows that should have been captured in minimal QA.
- One should really be an experienced Linux'er to understand and complete the installation.
- After tumbling through the unfriendly installation screens, finally, when you are done, you do get a nice polished desktop. Good job there certainly.
- In terms of performance, Gentoo or Slackware met or exceeded the performance of Yoper 2.1 on my Toshiba Tecra 8200, 850Mhz PIII with 256 MB.
- Unless the installation improves, it is hard to concur with the review.
Cheers.
So it also takes a week to install!
I misread that as "Yooper"[0] Linux, and had to wonder what was different.
Are all the command lines followed by "eh"?
Error messages start with "Holy wah!"?
Free six pack of cheap beer and a pastie with the distro?
Special credit given to Bob and Doug Mackenzie?
Come on, I can't be the only one from Michigan here.
[0] For those not in on it, "Yoopers" refers people from the Upper Peninsula (UP) of Michigan. There's also a local comedy band known as "Da Yoopers".
Check this link: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/prelink-howto.xml
and it was like, BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP! And then, like, half my script was gone, and I was like hnngh? It devoured my script. It was a really good script. It was like... a bummer.
...Linux for the Amish.
It will be complete bloatware after 6.0, going from a lightweight OS that can be installed on a 3 MB rom image to an eyecandy "click the pretty button" monstrosity that constantly pops up FMV clips.
SuSE, RedHat/Fedora, Debian, Yoper, Linspire, Lycoris, Xandros, Yoper, Slackware, Mandrake, Arklinux... Oops, that's 11, and I'm sure I'm missing some. I've completely ignored embedded distros, firewall distros, "server-oriented" distros and just went for the distros that are popular and "desktop friendly", most of which are specifically targetted towards the desktop.
Name the different target market each one attempts to target. Also, name three features that makes each distro unique among its competitors. Maybe for 3 or 4 of the distros you'll be able to do that, but for the rest the answer is basically "It's just another Linux, just with different package options/versions".
I'm all for "clear choices" and products optimized for a particular market segment. But I think this strong defense of choice ignores the fact that such choice is basically dividing the volunteer resources of the OSS community over a bunch of only slightly different distros.
I mean, think about it. Is it really better to create a whole new distro and make it fast than to take an existing system (say, RedHat and Mandrake) and provide the same optimizations to *those* products? As a "Linux experimenter", I've given myself headaches trying to figure out what distro out of the above list I should use. It's not a clear-cut decision, and each time a new distro comes out, I think - gee, does this mean I should switch my desktop just to get nice feature X or Y?
I congratulate Yoper on their innovations, but the first thing I want to know is when these innovations are going to make it into other distros so that the Linux community as a whole can get a speed boost, rather than the Yoper community.
USE="nptl" && mkdir /etc/portage && echo "sys-kernel/linux26-headers -*" >> /etc/portage/package.keywords && emerge glbc & that server would still be up.
I love how the linux zealots are so quick to not only jump on windows and mac, but also other linux distros that arn't "cool" or "the best". How the hell can something which is basically the same, be better or worse. It all depends on how the user sets things up.
That's not what I call competition with gentoo: Who would want to install a disto without Larry the cow as a logo?
I'm being cynical here, but wasn't Yoper supposed to the the Next Great Distro last year? What happened?
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
For what it's worth, I'm in New Zealand and this is the first that I've ever heard of these people -- and it's not exactly a big country to miss something like this. I personally run Debian, and nearly everyone I know with linux uses either Debian, Fedora/RedHat or Suse.
It's possible (if not probable) that they only deal with businesses and are never see outside of that community, but I'd hardly consider them the company that "does the commercial side [of linux] in New Zealand".
To say so would have to be nothing more than market-speak. There are plenty local companies and organisations running other distros, and plenty of other companies and consultants who support other distros, most of which have probably never heard of Yoper.
The more I think about it, your argument seems to be based on the assumtion that *nix is somehow _new_. It isn't, it chronology can be found here: http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html#05 As to it being perfect, it isn't and I dont think anyone is really expecting such. Windows is far from perfect, but it isn't marketed as such. It is marketed as an OS for the masses. It falls short in many areas, but Joe User isn't expected to know the guts of the OS in order to load a new peice of hardware or load a new app. As much as it surprises me to say it, Apple has stepped into that void in the last couple years and filled done an admirable job at filling that gap. Have you looked at 10.3 or 10.4 recently?
C'mon, people. I thought we were bigger than this "My distro can beat up your distro" crap. It *is* a very nice, slick OS. No, I don't like it more than my current distro, and the installer plain sucks. But, it certainly does have promise. In other words, don't knock it 'till you try it.
I think you've misunderstood what Gentoo is really about(*) : USE flags. Just try implementing something like that in a binary distro -- it would cause exponential growth of the number of packages. This is the #1 reason I use Gentoo.
(*) Forget the speed difference some people try to claim, it's a red herring -- like you said, nobody really notices the difference either way.
HAND.
My Gentoo boxes aren't significantly faster than my other boxes, and watching compiler warnings fly up the screen and editing config files haven't turned me into a guru (though now I at least know how /sbin/route works).
Forget speed or 1337ness. USE flags, rc-update, and dispatch-conf are absolutely brilliant and are the reason I stick with Gentoo.
All's true that is mistrusted
OSNews
.. (way too) strong for me ;)
What a most bizarre feeling.
I feel both flattered and angry - v strange.
Good thing my short novels are not online.
Aww Israeli girls are so very pretty shame their personality is a bit
That screenshot from the article sickened me; how many of those icons were Apple Mac icons? too many!!
"Unfortunately changing the WM or default desktop will be a but of a chore, as a plug in to control this is not yet included in Yoperconf."
Maybe it's just me... but uhh.. heh.
I am Jack's HTTP Server
Hello again you little cute Debian troll you. =) You continue to amuse me! Thanks!
Looking through their APT repository I'd like to ask : they're still using XFree instead of Xorg? Just switching from XFree to Xorg made my "Applications opened almost instantly" without any prelinking. And v6.8.0 just added to this boost. What's the point of compiling an ultra-optimized system and then using an obsolete software on it? Sometimes much more performance can be obtained just by upgrading your software.
hear hear.
And init scripts with dependancies like in FreeBSD. None of this stupid S76name linking.
There we go!
Finally someone has cracked onto the market that Yoper is being targeted at: The average Joe/Jane Doe who just wants to use their computer!
Fast distro, quick+easy to install, easy to update and very easy to use.. it must be Yoper!
...a striking similarity to Mac OS X? I felt this after reading about the underlying concepts such as prebinding (used heavily in Mac OS X). Then I saw the screenshots. Can't they get some two bit rookie with the GIMP to make them some original icons, or at least correct the gamma in the icons they ripped off?
And get someone to explain basic linking concepts to the reviewer... programs are linked to libraries, not the other way around. Linking usually happens at compile time. Binding is the process of replacing function names with function addresses. Prebinding puts the libraries in a persistent location in memory so that the bindings can be retained across sessions.
It's a step in the right direction, though.
Hillarious, Just ask the MTU alumni or anyone who has lived in the U.P.
Are you referring to the exponential number of packages bit? Well, in order to have the flexibility as USE flags in a binary disto you basically need 2^(number of use flags relevant for that package) versions of each and every package. As example, "kdebase" currently has 8 USE flags which can be toggled independently (i.e. things like samba support, ldap support, etc.). That means that to provide the same flexibility, a binary disto would have to have 256 versions(*) of the kdebase package -- clearly something which is simply too much for binary distro makers to handle... so they make the choices for you, i.e. requiring you to install e.g. samba support when you actually don't need it.
:)
Some people don't have any problem with installing the extra samba stuff even if they're never going to use it, but I'm kind of a purist... (Some extras may also lead to security holes and such, but that's probably a rarity).
Like the sibling to your post said there's also other advantages, but the USE flags thing is really the clincher for me.
I usually just recommend people to try it once (assuming that they're knowledgeable enough to get it installed in the first place). If they don't like it, fine. If they do like it... well then I guess we've just assimilated one more user...
(*) I'm overstating it since many of those optional things *can* probably be compiled separately, but only to make a point. Besides, some packages have 20 USE flags and no separate compilation for those optional bits.
HAND.
and not only that, but it trashed my xp. great way to get converts.. it makes you wonder if m$ is behind some of this crap.. maybe slashdot should 'check-out' stuff a little more before sending everyone to their death.
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
I've been reading many posts from different members on this topic. I want a new operating system for my PC, I'm tired of windows. I'm pretty computer literate, but I have no clue on how linux works, but I would like to learn linux, at my own pace. I would pretty much like a distro that I can't tell isn't windows, and be very user friendly for setup and such, yet if I want to get into the inner working and fiddle around, I can. Any suggestions? Gentoo sounds like it may be to time consuming, and Mandrake you have to pay for, right? Please help!
Competition? Does Yoper have Portage? Gentoo's edge isn't a custom compile, which many distros have out of the box. It's Portage.
Yoper's an i686 only distro.
There's no competition here.
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Double Kingburger with egg OWNS.
NO TOUCH MONKEY!