Slashdot Mirror
KDE 3.3 Officially Released
scorp1us was one of several to note that KDE 3.3 has been released. You can also read the infopage and the requirements. Commence downloading. Features a new spell checking library, a new theme manager, and much more.
Kan't wait to get my Komputer running KDE 3.3
Guess I've got some downloading to do, eh? Which comes to a gripe - it's a real pain in the arse to download all the seperate files and install them. Sure would be nice if the KDE team wrote an "update" script that would check for updates and optionally download/install them. PS. Anyone want a gmail invite? mail me.. [only one left!]
feh. stuff.
It told has no C!
Italian Ham Pie
* 2 c. ham, diced
* 3 c. flour
* 3 tbsp. sugar
* 3 eggs
* 1/2 c. shortening
* 1/8 c. milk
* 1 lb. sweet sausage
* 2 lbs. ricotta
* 1 sm. Mozzarella, cut into sm. pieces
* 1/4 c. grated cheese
* 1/4 c. chopped parsley
* 4 raw eggs (additional)
* 1 tsp. salt
* 1/4 tsp. black pepper
Mix the flour and sugar together. Make a well in the center, add the 3 eggs, shortening and milk, mixing together until dough is easy to handle. Divide in half; roll out one portion and fit into 9x13 inch baking pan. Cover other half until later. Parboil sausage 8 minutes and cut into small pieces. Mix sausage with remainder of ingredients and spread in crust. Roll out remaining dough and fit on top of mixture. Seal edges; cut slit in top. Bake for 45-60 minutes in preheated 350 degree oven until crust is golden brown. Cool slightly before serving. Brush tops with a mixture of 1 well-beaten egg and 1 tablespoon of milk; this will make the crust shiny.
Wow, that's a really nice requirements chart. I wish more projects
.xml of it, and we could
would use that. (Of course, with apt-get and dpkg, it's not such a
concern, but.)
Maybe even nicer if they would produce an
write a tool to test the system against it - e.g. "you meet the
requirements," or "YOU FAIL IT, you need $PKG $VER."
feh. stuff.
congradulations on slashdotting kde. hope your proud!
KDE 3.3 Screenshots at the bottom of that page.
Of course gentoo has had it in beta for the last month.
My own personal experience with it is that it's even faster then before (Not quite blackbox speed but it is approching...). kmail has spam filtering built in. All of the multimedia mime things work in Konqueror (that I could see). Still can't get konqueror to run those java games at www.pogo.com so I have to use firefox for that.
Kdevelop is fantastic, along with plugins for valgrind, doxygen and debuggers it is a great development environment.
All in all an incremental change, nothing blindingly new, but a solid base to work from.
Bitch, bitch, bitch.
If they come up with something totally new, they get slammed for a steep learning curve. Reviewers go on tirades and whitepapers are written about how the TCO is too high because of the training necessary, etc.
Keeping an interface similar allows for an easier migration of people who've been using Windows for years (office people). Thus, less training is needed and the migration costs are lower.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
hey, everything slashdot's webpage needs
ironically, this is posted by the "founder"!
my blog
For the gentoo folks who emerge from source and all that fun stuff. How 'bout the not-so-cool people who use the other distros like RH or MDK? I figure they'll show up in contrib in a few days but I've been bitten before when I upgraded a RH9 to KDE 3.2 using repositories...locked up my machine badly and used that as an excuse to transition to mandrake 10CE (which had 3.2 by default). Haven't even gone to the 10 Official because I've adopted the "hey, if I don't NEED to upgrade, I won't" more religiously.
For the more cautious/paranoid folks out there, when can we expect the distros to package 3.3 officially?
As always, thanks to the KDE folks for continually updating and improving the software.
a cute animated paperKlip?
"I realise this is not a very popular opinion but it's the truth, and there for needs to be said" -Bill Hicks
mirror here.
-- "I'm not a religious man, but if you're up there, save me Superman..."
I can't help but think that I'm feeling the same thing the mice felt when they told Deep Thought to find the answer to Life the Universe, and Everything, and it told them it would take 10 million years.
//blah/blah" like some sort of caveman), and their sound thingie.
I will no doubt be equally impressed with the results as they were.
KDE's UI has some really nice looking elements, but altogether it's just cluttered and ugly. I'm talking about them jamming too much stuff in the menus, redundant menus, etc. Gnome's so much lighter and cleaner looking. Though, I like the lisa daemon (alot! why would I want to have to type mount "-t cifs
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I just got finished compiling kde, and ouch, not going to do it again soon.
Drop me a line at:
Key ID: 0x54D1D809
Linux users shouldn't have to spell check.
Two weeks without the Gentoo users! Life is great!
apt-get update apt-get -t unstable install kdebase
-- -pjk Perry Kundert perry@kundert.ca http://kundert.2y.net
Qt gained increased support for Indic languages, and languages as diverse as Farsi and Frisian were added
Will Kilngon be on their next release?
"Your honor, the two youts..."
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
See how they needed the spell checking?
emt 377 emt 4
"Keeping an interface similar allows for an easier migration of people who've been using Windows for years (office people). Thus, less training is needed and the migration costs are lower."
Lower than going through all the BS it takes to install these things? I don't think so.
"If they come up with something totally new, they get slammed for a steep learning curve. Reviewers go on tirades and whitepapers are written about how the TCO is too high because of the training necessary, etc."
These are very valid 'bitches'. You're not helping anybody by trying to play them down. Complex software and needlessly complex software are to very different things. Most of Linux and related software very neatly falls into the needlessly complex category, and there will ALWAYS be bitching about it until the community actually gets their act together and does something about it.
"Derp de derp."
Aside from patches to 3.3, I don't think we'll see another major KDE release until Qt4 is finalized and we see KDE 4 creep up beside it. So for all of us who are reveling in a new release of our favourite desktop environment, just remember to hold onto that feeling, it could be another year before it happens again. :)
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
In yet another sign that the apocolypse is upon us, Debian unstable actually had KDE 3.3 last week. I am glad they are finally pushing the edge with that repository rather than having unstable mean "not as stable as stable" and of couse stable meaning "running packages from 3 years ago". Those of us who choose to run unstable know what the word means and we are willing to chance it.
And yes, I am a Debian user.
I just installed Gentoo, and only finished compiling KDE 3.2.3 a few days ago! GOD FECKING DAMMIT!
(note: this is not a troll, this really is happening, and I love Gentoo. I also hate my life.)
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
Does Konstruct work with FreeBSD, or is it just a linux thing..
And if it does, will it hose up my package manager or is it pretty clean?
( id didnt see 3.3 having been committed to ports yet.. but i may just wait to be safe )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
How about features like, "Increased performance by 60%, less memory leaks/bloat, and increased stability."
I humbly think that KDE + KDevelop (or Qt + Designer) give a beautifull Rapid Development tool. Python fits very well with the Object Oriented KDE API. And most of the heavy work is done by Qt anyways, so I would expect that many. many usefull aplications could be written with PyKDE and PyQT, now that they are officially part of the family ;-)
Kudos and Thank You to everyone involved.
-- Don Inodoro
Needless complexity? Nobody forces uses to use the complex stuff. A Linux/KDE box gives users more options and flexibility then a WIndows machine. Stop playing down Windows inflexibility...
I use ION WM, and the KDE Apps make all kinds of wrong assumptions about icon placement and break specs. I hope this stuff is fixed. Alas, the KDE apps are much better than Gnome ones.
windows xp sp2?
A Linux/KDE box gives users more options and flexibility then a WIndows machine.
But the more flexible, the more complex things become.
Red Bull gave me wings and I flew into the ceiling fan.
However, it is not the best for developers since they cannot create commercial application for it without paying TrollTech.
Alas this is very FALSE. You can develop QT based apps and charge for them, as much as you what to charge, as long as you use the GPL as your license. As long as you make the source available per stated in the GPL License, etheir as a free download, or available on a CD for no more than the cost of media + shipping.
The original e-mail didn't say a word about needless complexity, it spoke only to verbatim cloning of Microsoft's interfaces.
KDE's kiosk mode and associated manager/wizards allow you to tune it to a degree not possible with Windows. If you find it overly complex, then fix it -- it is actually pretty simple to do with KDE.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=1 1962
Have fun!
you insensitive clod...
All's true that is mistrusted
I had the same thought. Hey, it looks more and more like Windows. Congrats.
You mean just like slackware and most other distros? You gentoo turds really are annoying.
no not MS, they are ripping off mac and wordperfect...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Please send your donation to the following address, to help with this horrible disease:
Search for the Cure of the Gentoo
1 GentooCure Way
Seattle, Washington, 98101
Somebody needs to reread parent post and reconsider that flamebait mod. He makes a couple of good points. Criticism of Linux isn't automatically flamebait even though some are a little too uppity over the topic.
# hdparm /dev/hdx
#SickNotWeak
Highlights At A Glance
Some of the highlights in KDE 3.3 are listed below.
For a more detailed list of improvements since the KDE 3.2 release, please refer to the KDE 3.3 Feature Plan.
* http://kde.pandmservices.com/
Location: Hartford, Conneticut
Provided by P & M Services, LLC
* http://kde.oregonstate.edu/
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
Provided by Oregon State University
* http://kde.intissite.com/
Location: New York
Provided by BITS inc
* http://kde.feratech.com/
Location: Boston
Provided by Feratech, Inc
No competition. OS X wins.
kind of hard to develop a closed source commercial application an ship it under an open source license then isn't it? i don't think gtk has this problem, as i've seen commercial apps for *nix that use gtk before. they probably have an lgpl license or something.
- tristan
This always irks me about KDE users. Sure, some flexibility is good, but I think Windows implements the majority of its flexibility perfectly -- by jamming it in the Registry where no one will see it. The only issue I have with it is the utter lack of structure and lack of documentation, but the principle is solid. GConf does it better.
Okay, I like changing some browser settings occasionally. But do I really need an entire in Konqueror's settings dedicated to which SSLv2 and SSLv3 ciphers to use? No, I don't. This is something I don't expect 99% of KDE's users to be using at any point; it should be dumped into a configuration file somewhere. If you have no use for it, it's not cluttering up the interface. If you need to change it, you still can without modifying the source. Does every folder in the bookmarks menu need three separate items at the bottom, "Add Bookmark," "Bookmark Tabs as Folder," and "New Bookmark Folder?" Absolutely not. These are contextual items that belong in the context menu. The functionality can still be there without being in the way. See what I'm saying here?
I'll be the first to admit that I do really like some of KDE's flexibility. Enabling desktop sharing and letting users share their own files via the control panel is a great idea. Basic niceties like theme switching belongs there. But most of the cruft can be very safely shaved off. There's no better example of needless interface bloat than the giant, bloated, unnavigable mess called KControl. Launch feedback? Who cares enough to change that? Caching folders for "Quick Copy & Move"? The environment should be watching the user's habits and transparently adjusting this setting accordingly.
I think KDE is amazing technologically, but it's losing badly where it counts -- usability. GNOME understands that to develop a solid platform, you need developers, and to attract developers, you need users to develop for. They're inching closer together in both regards with each release, which I think is fantastic -- the ability to learn from one another and take advantage of another project's strengths is stronger in the open-source movement than anywhere. Many of its assets are downplayed, like DCOP and KParts, while exaggerating its flaws (memory usage, speed, and so forth), but it's silly to ignore what problems it does have just for mindless fanboyism. I'm looking forward greatly to a complete rearchitecting of the UI at some point in the future, hopefully this will be a priority by KDE 4 and its technology will truly shine.
Missing an history posting so that the same story dont apear more then five time in 5 min ;-)
KDE must be the first to get Klingon.
I think the parent's point is that there is a difference between open/closed and free/comercial. A gratis project can be either open or closed source. A comercial project can also be either open or closed.
You are both correct, but talking past each-other. It is in fact hard to market a commercial product under the GPL because you risk competing with a gratis fork of your own work. But the QT license doesn't care about gratis/commercial, only libre/closed.
XML is the best data format; unless your data needs to be read or written by a human or a computer.
congratulations
That's your distro's problem.
Jesus, we don't care. Don't use it then.
You remind me of a good joke :
;-)
Hey, KDE is now Idiot proof , it improved to the point anyone can use it.
Newsflash : the idiot also relasead a new and improve idiot , its even more idiot then before by 50% , code name : FZer0
Its open source find a developer interested in removing stuff and build your *smarter* version
Bah, if you were really l33t, you'd know that there's only one word to describe this: k-rad.
*waits to be moderated offtopic if at all because no one remembers k-rad, k-kool, etc. any more*
I recently moved to Gentoo and did the full recompile of KDE 3.2 when I did it. I had moved from Fedora.
Imagine my surprise when the TwinView stuff suddenly quit working and all of my windows suddenly wanted to maximize across all of the monitors.
Has anybody had any luck with 3.3 and the TwinView extensions? It looks from the nVidia docs like TwinView responds to the Xinerama queries, but KDE didn't seem to respond to them correctly. It did work under Fedora, and Gnome has no problems with Xinerama at all.
There's so little difference between politics and jihad lately...
Yeah, but by the time gentoo finishes compiling, those shrinkwrapped distros will have KDE 3.3.27. You know, the stable release that 3.3.0 is pretty much the beta for.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Thats the point of my question.. 3.3 has not been committed as of yet ( or I'm blind.. ) and no i dont want some beta/RC run...
I just didnt want to wait.. impatience...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Launch feedback? Who cares enough to change that?
Me.
I'll be the first to admit that I do really like some of KDE's flexibility
You like some of the flexibility, another user likes another part of the flexibility, another user thinks the parts you regard as flexibility is useless crap. This is just as stupid an argument as saying most users only need 10% of the features that MS Office has. True but obviously flawed since everyone uses a different set of features.
That said I'd have no problem moving some of the more obscure features to a GConf like system. I think that is actually a planned feature for KDE4.
Can I use apt (apt4rpm) in suse 9.1 to install KDE 3.3 now? Presently I am using http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/SuSE/ as repository. How can I update all kde packages using apt? And which repository has all the 3.3 packages?
I home that SUSE comes up with a good desktop.
I use SUSE BECAUSE of the desktop. I installed SUSE myself (with almost zero Linux knowledge) and switched from Windows with very little hassle. SUSE's distribution packaged with KDE is obviously targeted towards people like me who are sick of dealing with windows, but want something close enough so they can keep doing their normal computing with a small learning curve. Yes I have tinkered with GNOME, but to me KDE is much better suited as a windows replacement for people who want to migrate to Linux with no intention of ever doing anything more advanced than playing with YaST. Would GNOME run faster on my machine? Probably, but I already like KDE and have no ambition of possibly messing up my system by installing a new desktop environment.
Look 3.2 got faster than 3.1 and 3.3 has many optimisations making it faster than 3.2. Expept of some eye candy there are no new fundamental features, just some tweaking here and there. So yes they are really trying for smaller and faster. Just read a bit - even Trolltech is heading this way with qt4!
The parent post is a troll!
The giveaway is when he wonders how "tyrannical" MS would be if MS were to "ask you to pay them for using Window Forms," or any other MS dev stuff. Of course, Trolltech is not asking you to pay for using QT-whatever!
Again, it's all about getting something for nothing, about raping the GPL spirit. You wanna make money with closed sourced apps? Don't wanna create GPL apps? Don't wanna pay the "Trolltech tax"? No problem my friend. Go out and build your own damn toolkit. Nobody is stopping you. Have a nice day.
It's getting tedious now. Every time anything KDE-related comes out, you guys make the same lame-assed 'k' jokes everywhere.
Kretin.
"I want this ship to compile faster than those damn Klingons."
"But sir, if we go any fast she'll blow!"
Well considering MS ripped off Apple who had ripped off Xerox, I see no problem.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
If they come up with something totally new, they get slammed for a steep learning curve.
No, they don't. When something new and cool comes up, it's praised. That's pretty much describing the Linux kernel right there.
Reviewers go on tirades and whitepapers are written about how the TCO is too high because of the training necessary, etc.
That's a bit misleading. The TCO arguments have to do with server and network administration, not desktop Linux (i.e., KDE/GNOME).
As far as desktop reviewers, they go on tirades because often the applications are superficially easy to use, and they look familiar because of the ripped-off Microsoft interfaces, but because Linux and XFree86 are very fundamentally different under the hood, things happen that you don't expect, or you have to do things in weird ways that contradict the interface.
Keeping an interface similar allows for an easier migration of people who've been using Windows for years (office people). Thus, less training is needed and the migration costs are lower.
No, what it does is make Linux on the desktop a cheap Windows clone, but worse because it's only a superficial imitation. Too many things about Linux are different from Windows. I really don't understand why people don't attempt to come up with something new. If the creative designers of Linux came up with something intuitive and creative like OS X but with a unique interface paradigm, Linux on the desktop would have its own identity. Right now, it has about 20 conflicting identities all trying to look like a certain other big identity which most Linux users hate anyway.
Honestly, I've never seen any attempts to infuse something new, cool, and creative into desktop Linux. It's always, "Windows has a taskbar? Well, we'll have a taskbar you can move all around and add applets to and put pointless system monitors on!" "Windows has an integrated filesystem/HTML browser? We'll have one with endless sidetabs and buttons and toolbar icons!" "Windows has a start menu? We'll have a start menu with a hundred menu items with redundancies like 'System' and 'Preferences' and 'Control Panel' as well as pointless subgroups called 'More Programs'"!
I don't get it.
http://www.akcaagac.com/desktop/pictures/kde/scree nshot03.png
Looking at the font rendering, I still notice bizarre ghost pixels on the edges of curved characters like capital "S" and especially numbers. I'm constantly told Linux font rendering is supposted to be better than Windows and OS X, but honestly, it's a completely false assertation. Enabling TrueType hinting does nothing. There is something weird going on when rendering those curves--anyone more technically minded know what it is?
Then there's something REALLY wrong with your hardware or your config.
/etc/conf.d/hdparm:
Linux is the PREMIER multitasking OS. You should be able to emerge stuff for the system, play an MP3, robo-re-tag your entire collection of MP3s, and compile do other stuff all at the same time without a big slowdown.
Make sure you have hdparm configged (here's mine):
disc1_args="A1 -a64 -c1 -d1 -m16 -u1 -W1"
# rc-update add hdparm default
Also make sure your CFLAGS were sane. Here's mine:
CFLAGS="-pipe -O3 -march=athlon-xp -mfpmath=sse"
and that you have enough RAM. Compiling KDE will eat about 80MB/thread at times, so it's nice to have 256MB.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
KDE also look a lot better than GNOME. I think that KDE is the best GUI environment for UNIX (besides Aqua). However, it is not the best for developers since they cannot create commercial application for it without paying TrollTech.
So you are saying that if you want to use Troll Tech's code to make money you have to pay Troll Tech money.
Isn't that what capitalism was all about?
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
I like KDE and all (for the most part, guess I need to try this one out and see if it fixes any of the thousand little annoyances of 3.2)
:(
But the one thing I still cannot get over is the feeling that I am choking on my tongue just looking at all the K* filenames
[KDE] is not the best for developers since they cannot create commercial application for it without paying TrollTech. I wonder how tyrannical Microsoft would be if they would ask you to pay them for using Window Forms, Win32 API, WTL, MFC, or any other API they have. Not everyone wants to create GPL applications, nor do they want to pay the TrollTech tax.
Two things:
* You don't pay to use the various Windows APIs, you pay to use Windows. That's the product they sell. The APIs are the incentive to use it. Trolltech's product is QT. That's how they actually make that pesky money that lets them have the GPL version.
* If you're doing commercial software development, you expect to pay to do it. It's just like any other business. The cost of buying computers, dev tools, office chairs, etc. are trivial in comparison to big costs like salaries, office space and bandwidth, not to mention the income you expect to make from selling the product.
Java: the bastard demon spawn of C++ and Ada
That's just plain nonsense. Those who make a closed-source application (to make big money), will also have the funds for the commercial QT version. Those who make open-source applications can use the free version of QT.
So who benefits from the LGPL with GTK+? The home programmer who wants to make a little money with his commercially uninteresting application that he should rather have put under an open-source license. And in case anyone still wonders: any open-source license is allowed, even the BSD license, which Kicker uses.
Yeah, I bet, it's missing at least three settings menus for each applications and kcontrol. Also missing zillion buttons and toolbars.
it'll be interesting to see whether Komposé, aka éxpose clone will make it into the next version of KDE...
my blog
get-yout-gui-on dept.
~# apt-get install -t unstable kdebase
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Package kdebase is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source
However the following packages replace it:
kdebase-crypto
E: Package kdebase has no installation candidate
~# apt-get install -t unstable kdebase-crypto
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Package kdebase-crypto is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source
However the following packages replace it:
kdebase-libs
E: Package kdebase-crypto has no installation candidate
~# apt-get install -t unstable kdebase-libs
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Package kdebase-libs is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source
However the following packages replace it:
kdebase-crypto
E: Package kdebase-libs has no installation candidate
lol.
Good thing I don't use X anyway (console forever!)
Opportunity knocks. Karma hunts you down.
At least this way I have strictly what I need.
If all you need is a barebones window manager, then by all means stick with FluxBox. But some of us want applications to go with it...
Seriously, FluxBox is just a window manager. A window manager (KWin) is only one small part of KDE. You also have a panel which can hold a task manager, applets, systray, subpanels, etc. And a desktop (e.g., smart root window). And a file manager / webbrowser integrated into everything. Easy to edit menus with icons. Drag and drop from anywhere to anywhere. Complete network transparency and flexible IO protocols. Complete development toolkit for the hacker in you. Loads of eye candy. Etc, etc, etc.
That's without getting into the bundled applications. It may be more than you need, but you cannot claim that FluxBox fills the same ecological niche. That's like claiming Honda automobiles are too expensive and heavy so you're going to ride a Scwinn bycicle instead. There's nothing wrong with bicycles but don't pretend they serve the same purpose as cars.
BTW, you don't have to install all of KDE in order to use KDE. Just install kdelibs and kdebase and you'll still have the full desktop.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
...or does this seem a rather small list of changes for a point release? Not that I'm complaining, improvements are always nice.
Try staying logged in for awhile without eventually seeing all the memory eaten up. True, one can just log out, then log back in to reclaim the memory, but this is a kludge. If one has several windows open with specific tasks (that won't come up automatically on log in) it's a pain to get resituated.
It's an annoying problem that I've seen with different hardware and different kernel versions, so I know it's KDE. Mark this as troll or flamebait, but that won't make this any less true.
Keeping an interface similar allows for an easier migration of people who've been using Windows for years
I'm tired of everybody catering to the Windows user. Here's a cluestick, this isn't Windows! What about catering to us <gasp> Linux/BSD/Unix users?
I really hate it when my bank gives out Steuben crystal to new accounts. I've been with them for twenty years and they've never once given me even a paper cup with coffee in it! My landlord is giving new tenents their first month rent free, but I don't see me getting any bonus for not moving out when the dot.bomb blew up. For once I would like to be rewarded for NOT being the newbie!
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Thanks to the KDE devel team, we finally have a very nice desktop! Thank you KDE devel team!
Works For Me (TM)
Allergy advice: Contains eggs.
What about programming for windows? I cant create a free QT program for windows due to the licensing
Developers complaining about the cost of commercial Qt are like carpenters complaining about the cost of hammers.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
That'd be really painful. Especially on a dial-up connection or a slower high-speed connection. Or if your house's wiring isn't up to par, so your computer craps out on you because it just can't get enough juice.
Haec merda tauri est. Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
If you want to use MFC you have to buy a Visual Studio license from MS.
So where lies the difference?
I'm a big fan of KDE from a technological point of view. Kparts and DCOP just blow me a way.
However, I stick to Gnome. Not because Bonobo is a superior technology, but because of a really simple reason: Gnome is more focused on usability.
The Keramic theme makes me nautious and Plastik is not much better. Why not have these availble as alternative themes for people who want to mess with them, and install with a really clean, simple *non-distracting* theme?
Really, it's that simple. A QT and a KWin theme that don't look like they're made of candy.
It won't stop me upgrading from KDE2.x that I currently have installed.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
No, it's more like carpenters complaining about hammers that have a builtin coin-slot and electroshocker. Whenever you want to use one of these you must insert a coin first - or you'll be buzzed.
I'm surprised that he brought that up. I find it to be very useful for resource management. Some people want it, & some don't. There's nothing wrong with leaving it in the control centre. I don't know what the big deal is. I think that everything should be in there, unless it manages to save system resources by putting it in some obscure file. But then again, you'd have to have it well documented.
testing out my trending skills
KDE is not a Windows clone. You can have it act like pretty much anything you wish--from CDE to MacOS to Windows to (drum roll!) KDE native.
And by the way, Microsoft does it's fair share of stealing from Open Source projects. Just off the top of my head, I remember KDE had the ability to look at remote FTP sites as if they were on your local filesystem--a very cool idea. Not too long after that feature was released in KDE, along comes Microsoft with the exact same feature. Who is copying whom?
Your commentary isn't insightful. It's the same old FUD that comes out of Redmond and their satraps like you.
At the end of the day, you just have to face the fact that foo bar baz.
I noticed that I was accidentally zoomed in when I saw the image. The bottom right of the S seemed to have extra pixels. The fonts looked very ugly. When I went back to 100%, it looked fine.
I'm using Opera.
testing out my trending skills
Seriously. I can't see any of the so-called defects that you attempt to point out. Maybe your hatred of KDE and all things open source are the reason it looks bad to you?
And by the way, those "ghost pixels" are what's known as antialiasing. They're the *reason* (paradoxically) that the text looks so sharp.
So can you still compile KDE with gcc 2.95.3? The requirements page seems unclear on this point, and I think Gnome has more or less stopped supporting this version.
No, you mispelled that command line horribly. It's:
pacman -Syu kde
Qt is demonstrably faster when used through an SSH tunnel.
But really, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. Fucking troll.
I've currently logged in running kde for 70 days, I have 128MB RAM (yeah, I know), and memory usage is normal - currently 32MB, the rest is disk cache.
Bullshit, the small guys are the ones that need the money. You gotta keep your stuff closed or some big corp will scoop up your stuff and you have nothing to sell.
What you want to do instead is sell out your secrets to those big corps. That's how the little guys make money.
But yeah, in a sense the little guys can afford to buy stuff. However, QT is way, WAY overpriced. A Professional MSDN subscription is only $1k and it comes with damn near everything MS has for development.
No, it's more like carpenters complaining about hammers that have a builtin coin-slot and electroshocker. Whenever you want to use one of these you must insert a coin first - or you'll be buzzed.
And the commercial developers who are using the QT hammer won't be buzzing their users if they don't hand over a coin for their wares? Seems all Troll Tech is saying is "you make money, I make money." What can be more fair than that?
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
This is to inform you, gentle moderator, that the parent post is from a person who has trolled Slashdot in the past under the names bonch and Overly Critical Guy. Please, do all of us a favor and don't be taken in by this person's moronic brayings.
Thank you.
This has been a public service announcement.
This is to inform you, gentle moderator, that the parent post is from a person who has trolled Slashdot in the past under the names bonch and Overly Critical Guy. Please, do all of us a favor and don't be taken in by this person's moronic brayings.
Thank you.
This has been a public service announcement.
You can develop QT based apps and charge for them, as much as you what to charge, as long as you use the GPL as your license.
Yeah, yeah. He meant 'proprietary' rather than 'commercial'. Very clever of you to have pointed out the difference. Take yourself a banana.
...or with the XUL stuff Gerald's working on, which uses the Windows native widgets, rather than Qt or GTK+ or....
But do you really mean "GTK+'s Windows version is free, Qt's isn't"?
"Excuse me son... what's a YOUT?"
The article summary got it wrong...
This is a post from the future. I already have kde stardate 3000000000000.56.
hu-mon
I will have to wait for kde 3.4 for this feature. Vote for it!
:-)
The most wanted features
My most wanted feature
Jesus. I have been using Linux for 5 years, and installing software is still the main stumbling block. Apt-get is great when it works, but when it doesn't it isn't any better than RPM or compiling from source.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
KDE looks like whatever you want it to. Windows, OSX, $OTHER_OS, or something different - it's up to you.
#include "sig.h"
Yep, that sure was "redundant".
emt 377 emt 4
You know you can change the look... right? Newbies may NOT know how to change the look (maybe you need the windows look a bit longer...)
Not at all. The cost for Qt is a one time fee. No royalties. No per-seat charges. Buy it and it's yours. *Just* like a hammer.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
I wish that KDE's website would supply us with 3.3's screenshot. I would LOVE to see the screenshots to see if there is enough change on there GUI for me to update.
Your foreground task should get a timeslice whenever the compilation task hits a #include and has to open up another file.
This may come as a shock to you, but you don't have to install everything that come with KDE. Don't want the games? then don't install them! Don't want the educational-apps? Then don't install them! Just because they make them available, does not mean that you are forced to install them! This is not Windows, you CAN choose what is installed on your system!
But if a basic windowsmanager is all you need, then Fluxbox is fine. Me? I want full-blown desktop, and I use KDE. To each on his own.
Yes, 3.3 is faster then 3.2.3 is. It starts up faster, Apps are a bit faster and Konqueror feels smoother (they managed to eliminate alot of redundant redraws of the Konqueror UI when using it).
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
And doing that earlier this week would also give you KDE 3.3.0... Go figure ;)
Did you know that "shift + g" is also "G".
Well, the g isn't so bad. The g in gaim means that its AIM for Gnome.
On Fedora Core 2:
[root@www me]# g
Display all 224 possibilities? (y or n)
I suppose all aren't Gnome -- there's gzip.
You can use Borland Builder and other fine non-Microsoft products.
Anyone else been waiting for this since they scrapped the old theme manager?
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
There are other OSes you know. Please don't disregard them, or the work of the people who make KDE a cross-platform desktop.
For all the complaining linux users do about Microsoft's monopoly and open standards, a lot of them are all too quick to disregard or put down the other Unix style OSes, and to write code that won't compile without sys/linux.h.
Fortunately the KDE people don't think that way.
Konqueror made up word so you I can easly enforce any trademark issues.
Windows common word, Micrsoft has no right to it.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Doesn't work, kdelibs doesn't seem to be updated yet.
If you'd only used Debian.
As soon as it comes to upgrading, Knoppix is not Debian.
Did you ask anyone (like Google before you put your plan in action?
Join me in the ancient mantra: "Knoppix is not Debian, Knoppix is not Debian, Knoppix...".
P.S.: I really love Knoppix. Its very useful. Just don't knoppix-installer && apt-get update && apt-get upgrade || apt-get dist-upgrade and complain. You missed some warnings, dude. They're all over the place.
...but it seems to be for "large" commercial applications only. If you're doing 100% Qt work, the price is just fine. But if you're going from hobbyist -> commercial, there is an abyss called Qt.
Death knell #1:
"Q: Can we use the Free Edition while developing our non-free application and then purchase commercial licenses when we start to sell it?
A: No. Our commercial license agreements only apply to software that was developed with Qt under the commercial license agreement. They do not apply to code that was developed with the Qt Free Edition prior to the agreement. Any software developed with Qt without a commercial license agreement must be released as Free/Open Source software."
I can understand why it is there, but it also means you have exactly zero chance of turning your hobbyist OSS project into a commercial one, even if you have copyright on all the source code.
Death knell #2:
If you're programming in Qt/Free, you have a Linux project. That's where you've made your userbase, so even though it is niche you can get some customers there. And then the mass market with Windows.
Price tag for duopack, standard edition:
2150 Euro.
If you are working full-time, 2000 Euro is not much. But say this is a part-time gig (your 2nd job or a fringe project from your normal duties) say maybe a 20% position. Suddenly your 2000 Euro tag is a 10000 Euro tag in 100% equivalents.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
That's no what I always heard. I always heard "Knoppix is a great way to get Debian installed." Now I know. Luckily this wasn't on my main machine or I would be kind of pissed.
Maybe there is a way to "apt-get revert" or something, but I didn't see it. I guess my overall point is that for all that I heard about how simple and brain-dead-easy apt-get was, it CAN have issues. You say "if only I'd used Debian", but I would be leery of that now. This is one of those hurdles that the OSS community needs to overcome to make it into the average computer (if that is even a goal). As far as I was concerned, Knoppix was Debian+. Apt-get was part of Debian. Apt-get messed up. Therefore, if I would have installed pure Debian, the result wouldm't have been different. (You say differently, but am I willing to take that chance?)
Think of it like this: You have to seem to qualify lots of statements with OSS. "apt-get rocks! (but only if you use pure Debian)" "Knoppix rules! (but don't install it and then expect apt-get to work)" "Mplayer is awesome! (if you can get it compiled and installed. Oh, you have to get the right codecs)"
Don't get me wrong, I love OSS. I am just trying to be critical of it where it needs improvement. And I would just like to temper that with the statement "IF it is going to make it to the average home user". I am not convinced that it needs to.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
http://greenfly.org/mes.html
Official Gentoo-Linux-Zealot translator-o-matic (and again)
Remember kids:
&&
Or like this:
"This Limo is awesome, but only if you have a driver who will park it for you."
This Porsche is great, but not for travelling with your family or for shopping.
Knoppix is a LiveCD. Why don't you wanna use it as a live CD? Search some Debian lists for the whole sad story. Or /join a #debian support channel, state your problem and duck.
Fun aside: There are alternatives. If you want to have the latest glitz, maybe testing is the right choice for you. Did you take a look at the new sarge installer?
You were right with Knoppix being Debian plus something. Plus hardware autoconfig, plus out-of-the-box magic, plus tons of apps already installed, etc.
You forgot plus funky mix of apt sources, plus upgrade hassle the user has to solve himself.
Knoppix might be super easy to install, but administrating a HD installation needs extra Debian knowledge, as you've seen. I don't say that it's impossible to solve these issues. But you might as well use a lean sources.list, like a normal Debian install would produce. Use Knoppix to create config files if your normal Debian install fails. That's cool. Updating a Knoppix HD install isn't. I am sure that this may change, but for the time being this is the situation.
I'm not talking about the look. I'm talking about a particular desktop's penchant for removing entire swaths of functionality. If you're lucky you might find them still there but hidden as an undocumented field in a registry.
To abuse a Bob Young analogy, you don't weld the hood of a car shut and then tell everyone who complains that they should shut up and use a blow torch if they want access.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
Try looking these mysterious names up in a search engine. Just like anything else in life, if you feel left out of the conversation cause you don't know the words, its up to you to catch up. How am I supposed to understand a conversation about Vim or Emacs or DOS? Who really cares if it is a word that I already know or some brand new jumble of letters never seen by the eyes of man? I like the idea of names like Vim better than Text Editor or notepad... You are gonna be confronted with all sorts of new things in life, so get with the program and learn a little. Open up Mozilla (or Internet Explorer if you want a memorable, descriptive name based on English words) and Google it!
Running shockwave (or pretty much any plugin that fails) is an open door to a browser crash, and even java apps have caused konq to get so hung I had to log out and back in again to undo the damage. Even when it works it's the absolute slowest web browser I've seens since the days of running netscape 3.3 on my 20mhz 386sx. For all the jokes about msie and its instability, kde sure looks a lot like a glass house when it comes to web browsing.
Look at the middle of the capital 'S'. It's wider than the rest of the stroke. It's more pronounced with other fonts in other screenshots than on that page, particularly with numbers.
This is to inform you, gentle moderator, that the parent post is from a person who has trolled Slashdot in the past under the names bonch and Overly Critical Guy. Please, do all of us a favor and don't be taken in by this person's moronic brayings.
Thank you.
This has been a public service announcement.
It's not about "valid." Opera renders fucked up webpages pretty well - it DOESN'T break pages nearly so easily as konq. MSIE, the whipping boy browser of "the community," also handles fucked up html without breaking things so badly. Mozilla - an app that would be great if they would get rid of the fucking xul - also handles broken pages quite well. At the very least it doesn't CRASH every time I stumble upon a website with overzealous javascript.
You don't design a car to shut itself off the first time the tires get low on air. Konq is one of the most brittle of the "mainstream" linux apps - probably THE most brittle - and making excuses about "valid html" don't help market share OR real world usability.
Simple as this: Supporting standards doesn't mean you have to be a slave to them.
I found a different alternative - Mandrake. It was one of the big distros that I hadn't played with yet, so I downloaded it and installed it. Some rather odd quirks in the install and a few problems after the fact, but so far so good. I know this isn't the time or the place, but why not list them?
1. During the install, while selecting packages, the OK and Cancel buttons disappeared. I have no idea what happened. In order to finish the install, I had to tab around the screen until I found whatever button it was that would let me continue. Rather annoying. Other than that, I liked the way the install groups packages into categories.
2. Configuring X. Ugh. Why is this such a pain? Luckily, it was configurable via a GUI, where I can just choose and test options, but it is still annoying. I was installing it on a Dell Inspiron 8000, and it auto-detected it as a flat panel. I didn't see any options for a laptop, so I had to assume this would work. However, setting the resolution to 1024x768 just made it a small box in the middle of the screen. I had to set it to 1600x1400 or something crazy like that. That was the only way I could get the display to go to the edge of the screen. But now everything is unbelievably tiny. Sure, it can be configured, but I thought we were beyond those days. Knoppix seemed to get it right the very first time. Is this hardware detection closed source? Why can't other distros adopt this? Knoppix is no longer "new and revolutionary", distros should have this implemented by now.
3. Tapping the touchpad isn't recognized as a mouse click. I didn't find a mouse option for "touchpad" either. Did it not recognize it, or do I have to download something and install it? I can solve this one, but it is something I shouldn't have to worry about solving.
Overall, the install was nice, except for the disappearing buttons. And the X config. Maybe those were just my issues with the laptop. I haven't really used it much, but I did download and install WINE. I tried to launch a simple program that I knew worked under Knoppix/WINE, and it failed. It said something about not being able to find Xmessage. More searching on the internet I guess. Oh, when I installed WINE, I downloaded the rpm and installed it from the command line. I had tried to launch Mandrake's software installer, but after providing the root password when it prompted me, the application never came up. I tried it a couple of times with no luck. Not sure what is going on there. At this point, if I can resolve the current issues without too much trouble, I may keep Mandrake on this laptop, but I can't say I am itching to pay money to join the Mandrake club though.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
That's exactly correct.
http://www.trolltech.com/download/index.html
There is NO GPL/Libre/Free licence for the Windows platform. Period.
Therefore even if parted were ported to Windows, the excellant QTParted CANNOT be. This allows your commercial Partition Magic to pull off marketing stunts like disabling Win2k3 support, while supporting Win2k3 in the "Pro" version which costs 10x. That is how QT's licencing terms can undermine the FOSS movement.
And the moderator who gave my parent comment a -2 can suck my cock and also learn about the gpl from http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
Sig Heil: Scumerica - Land of the Free* (* 18+, valid papers, health insurance, some restrictions apply)
After having apt-get updated...
~ $ sudo apt-get -t unstable install kdebase
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
Since you only requested a single operation it is extremely likely that
the package is simply not installable and a bug report against
that package should be filed.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
kdebase: Depends: kappfinder (>= 4:3.3.0-1) but 4:3.2.2-1 is to be installed
Depends: kate (>= 4:3.3.0-1) but 4:3.2.2-1 is to be installed
Depends: kcontrol (>= 4:3.3.0-1) but 4:3.2.2-1 is to be installed
---snip---
E: Broken packages
Debian gurus, help! I've installed Sarge and I love it, if only apt-get wouldn't get gummed up!