pretty ticked maybe, but they sure got a heck of a lot of publicity and name awareness out of it. i vaguely recall looking into firebird rdbms about a year ago. never got into it for reasons i can't recall. then this mozilla name thing and everyone is saying "firebird, isn't that an rdbms?". so, i, like a lot of other free software leeches go to check it out again. it certainly won't wear off so quickly this time.
iirc, this thing runs on windows natively and on unixes. most other free rdbms need some interesting work arounds to get to work under that MS os.
but when i last checked (2 a.m.) only and rc was available for 2.6.2. that was with development-sources and the other dev-sources. forget the full name..
the op said a good distro. correct me if i'm wrong, but a user has a hard time with gentoo to uninstall say gnome and all packages that were built with support for it (dependancies).
it's basically a no-uninstall system. sure you can uninstall things, but the implications are... potentially hazardous. it also seems to me to be a very bloated system, which is ok i guess w/ todays hdd's, but my system which has both kde and gnome installed takes up 4.6 gb disk space. that's w//home and/usr/portage/distfiles on separate partitions. this makes it kinda challenging to do a backup to cd-rom. i haven't used other distros recently, but i'm guessing a good install is goign to take 1/2 that space.
but, it's all about choice. well, last i checked this morning, kde 3.2 wasn't in portage yet, and neither was the 2.6.2 kernel. i _have_ the choice to install these my own sure, just like any other distribution.
it's all about choice. i hear there's something called debian which could be a choice, but i'll keep chugging away with the gentoo for a while i presume.
just a morning gentoo rant after a night of frustration w/ the system.
while you point some advantages to the GPL, i'd say that some of those play right into the disadvantages of the GPL. lots of these project are the combined works of many individuals. as seen with the mozilla project, getting permission from them all to relicense the code can be extremely challenging if not outright impossible. so, that sorta takes away someone's ability to release a propritary version.
don't get me wrong, i like gpl software and use it all the time. as much as i can. but... it is a viral license. people can't re-use it in a commercial (closed) purpose w/o being infected. this is where the other licenses (apache/bsd/mozilla/cpl, etc) excell. the original writers give up a lot more when they use that type of license. they give up control of who can commercialize on their works. anybody can use apache software in their products w/o having to distribute their entire source code base.
interesting, i'll have to do some searching on this manifest file for windows and see how it changes eclipse appearance.
from my usage, eclipse looks fine on windows, but like total crap on linux (gtk2). maybe it's the style i have setup for gtk2, but the widgets being used are too big and waste too much space outside of the actual code and stuff i'm interested in viewing.
but even Eclipse is *still* sluggish when running with a mildly complex project.
yeah, i hate that eclipse requires hardware from this century. modern software, modern hardware. what's that all about? SWT doesn't look or feel the same on linux (crap GTK) as it does on windows, but thats about the best they can do for now. Actually, if TT would go under and IBM could take a BSDish version of QT to use with this SWT, then it would be the same across platforms.
yes, i knew that. i was using fuzzy logic to get the 2. 10% of the 15 (rounded down) + another 10% rounded down to the nearest person.
also, these two fortune 500 companies have paid much much more than 699$ for their licensing. though these companies aren't linux companies. sun is just riding the bandwagon these days. barely.
from the article... : Have you had direct talks with customers yet? A: Very carefully over the last quarter, instead of sending out mass invoices, we stepped very carefully and really had a lot of direct one-on-one meetings with 15 or so companies. In the process of doing that, we learned a lot. We listened. We talked. And we went back and forth. About 20% of those companies signed licenses with us.
Q: Can you name any of them? A: We have taken the stance not to,.. But they are, in that case, Fortune 500 companies.
let's see 20% of 15, that's what.. ~2. so let's see, Microsoft and Sun perhaps?
i don't know about samba support, but livid does network streaming video. play the video on the server, and watch it on clients connecting to the server. kinda like mp3 streaming for video. they have a video lan client and a video lan server. microsoft and linux software is available at no cost. google for livid for more info
what are you nuts? sure the site was sold to OSDN, but in the deal IIRC, Taco, et al, maintained complete control over the site. no loss for Taco and company. so, if they want to post engagements, or personal "ask slashdots", or whatever go for it. it certainly isn't the community's site.
maybe because new versions of mac os x are running ~ 129$. it's not a microsoft tax with mac hardware, it's a mac os tax. how often are these new versions of mac os released? linux "users" finally settle down to slack, debian or gentoo. corporate linux users might pay the redhat tax.
first off, i have no idea why in the world everyone on/. focuses on a 'grandma' ready o/s. what is the average, mean, median, mode (whatever) age of home computer user? sure _some_ folks grandma's use the computer, but they also have a grandkid around everynow and again to show them what to do. grandma isn't the target audience here for any operating system. my mother (who is _a_ grandma) had troubles installing windows ME drivers for a usb HP printer, even with HP's easy to follow (i assume) instructions. she ends up paying someone from the local uni $20 to come over and frix it up.
next, why shouldn't there be a location for manufacturer hardware drivers. i assume we're talking closed source, but that doesn't matter. a lot of the linux drivers out there never make it into the main kernel, so you're left hoping your distro includes it. also, a lot of drivers find themselves unmaintained rather quickly. end users probably will figure out eventually that open source drives are much more beneficial than the closed drivers (upgrades), but really, if i buy a cheep 'ol scanner at compusa or best buy, and can get a binary driver from linuxbinarydrivers.com and have the thing just _work_, i'd be extremely satisfied. heck, they could even install their own binary application with links onto my desktop if they want. this will get people using it.
i do know some folks that would need that stripped down user interface you speak of (hasn't it been done yet?). i wouldn't call them a grandma audience, but rather a Wal-mart audience. these are people who the closest grocery store is about 10 minute away. and during that 10 minute drive, they're not fighting traffic lights, they're watching the corn grow just to the other side 'o the ditch.
i can't speak to the mods. they typically get the insightful mod wrong.
you give a lot of informative statements to back up the laws regarding a standing militia.
you also mention that the military can be used when "it is necessitated by a situation (such as a rebellion)". i would assume this to include a direct attack on the states. if canada rolls down into the US and launches an attack on the US, on US soil, I assume that military forces have a responsiblity to exist in the area that the attack occurs. and that they will use martial law to attempt to protect the rights of the american (u.s.) citizens.
why is it that we can spend our money to send troops abroad to police other nations, but we can't keep troops at the borders (that could include air space) to protect our citizens from attack? what is it that gives us the right, responsibility or obligation to send troops abroad to police other parts of the world? is that a responsiblity that was recogonized when this country was formed or something we accquired in the last 80 years? common fucking sense indeed...
thanks for correcting my spelling error, but it seems my point was obvious. (somehow dictionary.com didn't have inciteful, but did have incite and lists the synonyms as: Syn: Excite; stimulate; instigate; spur; goad; arouse; move; urge; rouse; provoke; encourage; prompt; animate.)
from my perception, i only saw inciteful type remarks in the op, and not really anything that portrayed a clear and deep perception.
fair competion is one thing, but microsoft has been declared to be a monopoly. they got there by extremely questionable business practices (no matter which side of the fence you're on, the practices are questionable i hope). as such they have to play by special rules.
they can't lock out compeditors. and forcing their itunes to use their integrated browser as oppose to the user's preferred installed-over-the-default browser is just plain locking competion out.
now that there's a superior product on the "market", ie has effectively lost the browser war. it might take another two years for it to take hold, who knows. ie will now always be playing catch up with mozilla. if there does happen to be an innovative feature in the ie browser, as soon as it hits beta, mozilla will be hard at work implementing a better solution. the only way microsoft can compete with mozilla is to force the use of their application.
oh yeah, and your coke/pepsi and gm/ford examples are completely full of holes in this context. coke (and or consumers) would definately sue pepsi if a pepsi only resturaunt started to advertise having a burger/fries/coke for 3.99$, then you recieve a pepsi. fords brakes have standard user interfaces, and the actual brakes can and are often replaced with aftermarket brakes. anyone who owns a ford has the ability to take the freaking tire off, remote the caliper and see what the interface is for the braking unit. fords don't disrespect (not stop) brakes that aren't ford brakes.
just edit your user prefs file. google for it and you can find out how to make moz impersonate as ie if needed. i prefer to just avoid crap sites that will lock me out based on a browser. shows how imcompetent their staff is by doing "fancy" coding like that.
moz can pose as ie also, that's not what most sites do. they'll use java script or a server side preprocessor to determine your browser and lock you out w/o ie browser. posing even w/ moz gets around this.
oh my. talk about giant flame bait. you want to protect the air space, put freaking military patrol on each and every plane. where are we going to get that type of military patrol? how about the millions of troops that are deployed over seas protecting american "interests". american government has no constitutional right to deploy forces over seas except to protect our borders.
american government does have a responsibility to protect the rights and freedoms of its citizens. using american forces abroad while they could be deployed here is an absolute abuse of power. infringing on any americans freedoms and rights (privacy inspections boarding plane) is an absolute abuse of power. armed military across the country would protect americans rights and keep the country safe from the jihad.
first you say : Gentoo is all about customization, optimization, and complete control of your system
then you compare it to a highly specialized and not very customizeable racing vehicle?
customization, optimization, and complete control includes the ability be a simple operating system that anyone can install and use. you're only adding fuel to the point that it's the hard core community mentality that won't accept a graphical type installer. this is the ONLY thing that gentoo needs to bring it to the masses. coupled with gentoo's new quarterly release schedule, along with the soon to be available grp update functionality (apt-get for gentooers who don't want to wait 6 hrs for new kde) gentoo will be an awesome distro. add to that some excellent backup and system restore facilities and more intellengence to portage (etc-update is horrid), and it'll be the race car that the whole family can enjoy.
i don't see why can't a distro please those hard core users as well as function extremely easy for the "newbies"?
i/2 the install document for gentoo is going over tedious things, and finally getting to the actual tedious commands that the user has to enter. a basic installer just needs to let me select a few things like:
which stage am i going to use and where is that stage
bring up a decent gui fdisk application and let me partition away the hdd. and allow a simple "you figure out the partitions gentoo and let me see how it looks" type thing
which kernel would you like to use, and here, i'll preconfigure it for what i think it should look like, but take a check and see if you need anything changed if you want
if using a graphical display, set it up.
etc, etc, etc. there's tons of graphical install applications floating around these days. and it's finally good to hear drobbins mention that a graphical install application needs requirements, design and implemention and support. basicly by saying that, he's saying that gentoo will have an installer application. there's been some before that i've heard of (never used), but the community seems to have been so "elite" that they wouldn't accept such a beast in the past.
it's possible to learn how to customize, optimize and tweak a system w/o having to endure a weekend of hard core headaches. perhaps the mailing lists, forums and irc channels are afraid their signal to noise ratio will be altered by such an install program?
last time i checked, 90% of linux users haven't touched a BSD kernel. 48.3% of slashdot comment readers/posters are linux users (but most dual boot). and of course 89.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
the public indecancy/ obscene behavior changes only when society itself changes. currently, one can be totally clothed, but if you expose your manhood and take a leak on the street, you'll be charged with possibly either of those two. what constitutes indecance and or obscene are what fluxuates depending on where you are and what has been established. i imagine that 100 years ago, if women wore the same beach attire as they do today, many would be charged.
They make billions of dollars from this, so they provide the support for free.
wtf? how does microsoft provide support for free? by having an update site? this is support? when my os dies (BSOD), does it send a stack trace to microsoft? that would be free support. and if the vendor would follow up within a given timeframe (two weeks would even be extremely welcome for home users) as to what the cause of the problem was. that would be support. support is when i say to vendor, i have a problem and they provide customer oriented service to resolve the issue. walking into walmart to have a cart handed to you by a friendly 60 year old greeter is not support. especially when you get to the checkout line to see that it's 20 minutes wait.
Slashdot Mirror
pretty ticked maybe, but they sure got a heck of a lot of publicity and name awareness out of it. i vaguely recall looking into firebird rdbms about a year ago. never got into it for reasons i can't recall. then this mozilla name thing and everyone is saying "firebird, isn't that an rdbms?". so, i, like a lot of other free software leeches go to check it out again. it certainly won't wear off so quickly this time.
iirc, this thing runs on windows natively and on unixes. most other free rdbms need some interesting work arounds to get to work under that MS os.
yeah, sure, they're hard workers. i'll agree.
but when i last checked (2 a.m.) only and rc was available for 2.6.2. that was with development-sources and the other dev-sources. forget the full name..
sure choice, choice, choice.
... potentially hazardous. it also seems to me to be a very bloated system, which is ok i guess w/ todays hdd's, but my system which has both kde and gnome installed takes up 4.6 gb disk space. that's w/ /home and /usr/portage/distfiles on separate partitions. this makes it kinda challenging to do a backup to cd-rom. i haven't used other distros recently, but i'm guessing a good install is goign to take 1/2 that space.
the op said a good distro. correct me if i'm wrong, but a user has a hard time with gentoo to uninstall say gnome and all packages that were built with support for it (dependancies).
it's basically a no-uninstall system. sure you can uninstall things, but the implications are
but, it's all about choice. well, last i checked this morning, kde 3.2 wasn't in portage yet, and neither was the 2.6.2 kernel. i _have_ the choice to install these my own sure, just like any other distribution.
it's all about choice. i hear there's something called debian which could be a choice, but i'll keep chugging away with the gentoo for a while i presume.
just a morning gentoo rant after a night of frustration w/ the system.
quite an inciteful comment ;).
while you point some advantages to the GPL, i'd say that some of those play right into the disadvantages of the GPL. lots of these project are the combined works of many individuals. as seen with the mozilla project, getting permission from them all to relicense the code can be extremely challenging if not outright impossible. so, that sorta takes away someone's ability to release a propritary version.
don't get me wrong, i like gpl software and use it all the time. as much as i can. but... it is a viral license. people can't re-use it in a commercial (closed) purpose w/o being infected. this is where the other licenses (apache/bsd/mozilla/cpl, etc) excell. the original writers give up a lot more when they use that type of license. they give up control of who can commercialize on their works. anybody can use apache software in their products w/o having to distribute their entire source code base.
interesting, i'll have to do some searching on this manifest file for windows and see how it changes eclipse appearance.
from my usage, eclipse looks fine on windows, but like total crap on linux (gtk2). maybe it's the style i have setup for gtk2, but the widgets being used are too big and waste too much space outside of the actual code and stuff i'm interested in viewing.
but even Eclipse is *still* sluggish when running with a mildly complex project.
yeah, i hate that eclipse requires hardware from this century. modern software, modern hardware. what's that all about? SWT doesn't look or feel the same on linux (crap GTK) as it does on windows, but thats about the best they can do for now. Actually, if TT would go under and IBM could take a BSDish version of QT to use with this SWT, then it would be the same across platforms.
yes, i knew that. i was using fuzzy logic to get the 2. 10% of the 15 (rounded down) + another 10% rounded down to the nearest person.
also, these two fortune 500 companies have paid much much more than 699$ for their licensing. though these companies aren't linux companies. sun is just riding the bandwagon these days. barely.
from the article...
.. But they are, in that case, Fortune 500 companies.
: Have you had direct talks with customers yet?
A: Very carefully over the last quarter, instead of sending out mass invoices, we stepped very carefully and really had a lot of direct one-on-one meetings with 15 or so companies. In the process of doing that, we learned a lot. We listened. We talked. And we went back and forth. About 20% of those companies signed licenses with us.
Q: Can you name any of them?
A: We have taken the stance not to,
let's see 20% of 15, that's what.. ~2. so let's see, Microsoft and Sun perhaps?
i don't know about samba support, but livid does network streaming video. play the video on the server, and watch it on clients connecting to the server. kinda like mp3 streaming for video. they have a video lan client and a video lan server. microsoft and linux software is available at no cost. google for livid for more info
what are you nuts? sure the site was sold to OSDN, but in the deal IIRC, Taco, et al, maintained complete control over the site. no loss for Taco and company. so, if they want to post engagements, or personal "ask slashdots", or whatever go for it. it certainly isn't the community's site.
maybe because new versions of mac os x are running ~ 129$. it's not a microsoft tax with mac hardware, it's a mac os tax. how often are these new versions of mac os released? linux "users" finally settle down to slack, debian or gentoo. corporate linux users might pay the redhat tax.
i haven't figured out /. quite yet, i still see posts from trolls^^^ er foes, but i do see the pretty red dot. ..you're a troll...
first off, i have no idea why in the world everyone on /. focuses on a 'grandma' ready o/s. what is the average, mean, median, mode (whatever) age of home computer user? sure _some_ folks grandma's use the computer, but they also have a grandkid around everynow and again to show them what to do. grandma isn't the target audience here for any operating system. my mother (who is _a_ grandma) had troubles installing windows ME drivers for a usb HP printer, even with HP's easy to follow (i assume) instructions. she ends up paying someone from the local uni $20 to come over and frix it up.
next, why shouldn't there be a location for manufacturer hardware drivers. i assume we're talking closed source, but that doesn't matter. a lot of the linux drivers out there never make it into the main kernel, so you're left hoping your distro includes it. also, a lot of drivers find themselves unmaintained rather quickly. end users probably will figure out eventually that open source drives are much more beneficial than the closed drivers (upgrades), but really, if i buy a cheep 'ol scanner at compusa or best buy, and can get a binary driver from linuxbinarydrivers.com and have the thing just _work_, i'd be extremely satisfied. heck, they could even install their own binary application with links onto my desktop if they want. this will get people using it.
i do know some folks that would need that stripped down user interface you speak of (hasn't it been done yet?). i wouldn't call them a grandma audience, but rather a Wal-mart audience. these are people who the closest grocery store is about 10 minute away. and during that 10 minute drive, they're not fighting traffic lights, they're watching the corn grow just to the other side 'o the ditch.
while it isn't gpl for windows. it seems to have at least at one time been available for GPL type authors (free/opensource).
/ 00 000014.html
http://www.trolltech.com/newsroom/announcements
as announced here:
http://news.kde.org/993610099/
trolltech seems to have removed that option from all i can gather.
i can't speak to the mods. they typically get the insightful mod wrong.
you give a lot of informative statements to back up the laws regarding a standing militia.
you also mention that the military can be used when "it is necessitated by a situation (such as a rebellion)". i would assume this to include a direct attack on the states. if canada rolls down into the US and launches an attack on the US, on US soil, I assume that military forces have a responsiblity to exist in the area that the attack occurs. and that they will use martial law to attempt to protect the rights of the american (u.s.) citizens.
why is it that we can spend our money to send troops abroad to police other nations, but we can't keep troops at the borders (that could include air space) to protect our citizens from attack? what is it that gives us the right, responsibility or obligation to send troops abroad to police other parts of the world? is that a responsiblity that was recogonized when this country was formed or something we accquired in the last 80 years? common fucking sense indeed...
insightful: exhibiting insight or clear and deep perception; "an insightful parent"; "the chapter is insightful and suggestive of new
thanks for correcting my spelling error, but it seems my point was obvious. (somehow dictionary.com didn't have inciteful, but did have incite and lists the synonyms as: Syn: Excite; stimulate; instigate; spur; goad; arouse; move; urge; rouse; provoke; encourage; prompt; animate.)
from my perception, i only saw inciteful type remarks in the op, and not really anything that portrayed a clear and deep perception.
hey mods. insightful does not mean insiteful.
fair competion is one thing, but microsoft has been declared to be a monopoly. they got there by extremely questionable business practices (no matter which side of the fence you're on, the practices are questionable i hope). as such they have to play by special rules.
they can't lock out compeditors. and forcing their itunes to use their integrated browser as oppose to the user's preferred installed-over-the-default browser is just plain locking competion out.
now that there's a superior product on the "market", ie has effectively lost the browser war. it might take another two years for it to take hold, who knows. ie will now always be playing catch up with mozilla. if there does happen to be an innovative feature in the ie browser, as soon as it hits beta, mozilla will be hard at work implementing a better solution. the only way microsoft can compete with mozilla is to force the use of their application.
oh yeah, and your coke/pepsi and gm/ford examples are completely full of holes in this context. coke (and or consumers) would definately sue pepsi if a pepsi only resturaunt started to advertise having a burger/fries/coke for 3.99$, then you recieve a pepsi. fords brakes have standard user interfaces, and the actual brakes can and are often replaced with aftermarket brakes. anyone who owns a ford has the ability to take the freaking tire off, remote the caliper and see what the interface is for the braking unit. fords don't disrespect (not stop) brakes that aren't ford brakes.
just edit your user prefs file. google for it and you can find out how to make moz impersonate as ie if needed. i prefer to just avoid crap sites that will lock me out based on a browser. shows how imcompetent their staff is by doing "fancy" coding like that.
moz can pose as ie also, that's not what most sites do. they'll use java script or a server side preprocessor to determine your browser and lock you out w/o ie browser. posing even w/ moz gets around this.
oh my. talk about giant flame bait. you want to protect the air space, put freaking military patrol on each and every plane. where are we going to get that type of military patrol? how about the millions of troops that are deployed over seas protecting american "interests". american government has no constitutional right to deploy forces over seas except to protect our borders.
american government does have a responsibility to protect the rights and freedoms of its citizens. using american forces abroad while they could be deployed here is an absolute abuse of power. infringing on any americans freedoms and rights (privacy inspections boarding plane) is an absolute abuse of power. armed military across the country would protect americans rights and keep the country safe from the jihad.
first you say : Gentoo is all about customization, optimization, and complete control of your system
then you compare it to a highly specialized and not very customizeable racing vehicle?
customization, optimization, and complete control includes the ability be a simple operating system that anyone can install and use. you're only adding fuel to the point that it's the hard core community mentality that won't accept a graphical type installer. this is the ONLY thing that gentoo needs to bring it to the masses. coupled with gentoo's new quarterly release schedule, along with the soon to be available grp update functionality (apt-get for gentooers who don't want to wait 6 hrs for new kde) gentoo will be an awesome distro. add to that some excellent backup and system restore facilities and more intellengence to portage (etc-update is horrid), and it'll be the race car that the whole family can enjoy.
i/2 the install document for gentoo is going over tedious things, and finally getting to the actual tedious commands that the user has to enter. a basic installer just needs to let me select a few things like:
etc, etc, etc. there's tons of graphical install applications floating around these days. and it's finally good to hear drobbins mention that a graphical install application needs requirements, design and implemention and support. basicly by saying that, he's saying that gentoo will have an installer application. there's been some before that i've heard of (never used), but the community seems to have been so "elite" that they wouldn't accept such a beast in the past.
it's possible to learn how to customize, optimize and tweak a system w/o having to endure a weekend of hard core headaches. perhaps the mailing lists, forums and irc channels are afraid their signal to noise ratio will be altered by such an install program?
last time i checked, 90% of linux users haven't touched a BSD kernel. 48.3% of slashdot comment readers/posters are linux users (but most dual boot). and of course 89.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
the public indecancy/ obscene behavior changes only when society itself changes. currently, one can be totally clothed, but if you expose your manhood and take a leak on the street, you'll be charged with possibly either of those two. what constitutes indecance and or obscene are what fluxuates depending on where you are and what has been established. i imagine that 100 years ago, if women wore the same beach attire as they do today, many would be charged.
They make billions of dollars from this, so they provide the support for free.
wtf? how does microsoft provide support for free? by having an update site? this is support? when my os dies (BSOD), does it send a stack trace to microsoft? that would be free support. and if the vendor would follow up within a given timeframe (two weeks would even be extremely welcome for home users) as to what the cause of the problem was. that would be support. support is when i say to vendor, i have a problem and they provide customer oriented service to resolve the issue. walking into walmart to have a cart handed to you by a friendly 60 year old greeter is not support. especially when you get to the checkout line to see that it's 20 minutes wait.