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Microsoft Agrees to Stop Hijacking Music-Shopping
ScottSpeaks! writes "CNN , ABC, and others are reporting that Microsoft has agreed to fix Windows XP so that it no longer launches IE (instead of the user's chosen default browser) when the user selects the "Shop for Music Online" option in Windows XP. MS isn't admitting that it's a violation of the consent decree they signed to get the DoJ to drop the anti-trust suit against them, but threats to take them to court over it are what prompted the move."
Microsoft has agreed to fix Windows XP so that it no longer launches IE (instead of the user's chosen default browser) when the user selects the "Shop for Music Online" option in Windows XP
Pops up Mozilla... "This site requires IE 6.0 to be viewed".
C'mon, it's not that difficult...
how long until
[from the CNN article:]
[from the ABC article:] Microsoft has agreed to make changes in its Windows XP operating system to satisfy US government concerns [...] "Without necessarily agreeing with the Department's position, Microsoft has agreed to remove the override of the user's default browser..
Why is it that whenever these crooks are forced to follow the rules of any legal settlement it's spun in such a way as to appear like they're doing the consumer a favour? "offer [the patch] for download" and "Microsoft has agreed"?!
[sarcasm]Thank you so very much, Bill.[/sarcasm]
Trolling is a art,
Since when is it Microsoft's policy to implement changes without an actual lawsuit? Granted this is probably nothing more than a registry change, but does this signal a new non-court driven Microsoft? I tend to think not. In this case, they probably calculated that it would be cheaper to change the link than to spend years in court feeding their legal team.
today is spelling optional day.
Does it say anywhere how MS was preventing these programs from honoring the default browser setting?
SCREW THE ADS! http://adblock.mozdev.org/ Proud user of teh Fox of Fire - Registered Linux User #289618
Some recent versions of MSN messenger used to do this as well. The latest version I've downloaded uses my default browser.
[alk]
MS isn't admitting that it's a violation of the consent decree they signed to get the DoJ to drop the anti-trust suit against them, but threats to take them to court over it are what prompted the move."
........without turning this whole thing into an anti-Microsoft rant, (I fear this will happen) we hear this kind of thing again and again from Microsoft. Microsoft violates (again) the terms of the anti-trust trial and says "ooops, my mistake." and agrees to change its behavior (barely). How do they keep getting away with it? I don't really have an answer for it but, they appear to have a somewhat schizophrenic relationship with their potential markets.
:-)
So,
The issue here is manifold: 1) Microsoft is a monopoly (not necessarily bad), 2) Microsoft leverages that monopoly against other markets (bad). The problem is that they really can't help themselves because their shareholders (disclaimer: I own some Microsoft stock) demand greater returns on their investment and they really don't know how to do anything differently. Microsoft is maturing and recently has paid out dividends (about time), but they seem to be continuously stumbling over their own feet in various markets. Microsoft has some smart folks there (including a few friends of mine), but as a whole the company has the appearance of a bunch of malicious geeks who are smart, but are not very creative, resulting in a desperate desire to be cool and seen as cool. This could be a result of marketing management keeping the programmers etc... under control, but Microsoft as a whole lacks that essence of coolness that gives them an edge. Therefore the predatory nature of the monopoly as they gobble up every concept that could be seen as giving Microsoft some degree of edge. It also might be that they are so big, they really don't have the ability to move very quickly or be objective in their analysis of markets. I would bet that if they broke themselves into a number of different companies (that even had the possibility of competing with each other), they would be much more competitive and would prove a much better return on investment.
Come on Bill, how would you like to be the principal of five or six big companies? One company can only get you so far you know.....?
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
If I receive a non-HTML/RTF formatted e-mail that contains a URL, Outlook will convert it to a link and when clicked it launches IE rather than my preferred browser.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
So the user can install a different browser on their own but have to rely on the "shop for music online" button? I don't know where this "feature" is, but is this something that redirects people to one of Microsoft's sites that's designed to work with IE? If so, I'd hijack the link as well.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
... I was about to suggest MS would use 'we did not do this intentionally, our code is just of poor quality', but I guess their 'Trusted Computing' initiative kinds of shoots the argument down :)
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
Maybe I'm being dense, but what's the big deal with Microsoft launching their browser for their music shopping service? If they'd used a browser control on their own app, would anyone have complained? It's not like there aren't 1000 other places online to buy music.
Really, perhaps the issue should be the existance of a "buy music online" selection in XP at all. I hate all those pre-loaded ads that come disguised as usability enhancements.
Microsoft not admitting their wrongdoing? Now here's a fucking surprise !
Annoys the hell out of me.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
I use XP Pro at home (Your condolences are not necessary) Mozilla Firebird is my default browser. I despise IE. The only time I see IE launch is when I do windows update. I wonder if there's any way microsoft could be convinced to program Windows update in a way that it could be accessed by other (standards compliant) browsers.
Conserve Oil, Recycle, Boycott Walmart
Just take a look at the MSN Messenger. You have to literaly hack XP to get that crap removed, and that's even AFTER changeing hidden settings in hidden .ini files. You think it's any wonder that they wouldn't allow you to change the default browser? Course, why anyone who click a stupid link on your start button that says "Shop for Music" is beyond me.
Is software at the point in it's evolution that any major changes only happen when there is a lawsuit involved? This is not only a microsoft phenomenon but I am starting to see it in all new software. WHEN DID THE DAMN LAWYERS START DICTATING WHAT THE SOFTWARE SHOULD DO ???? If GNU was not around to prove that software does not have to be created by committee this world would be a lot worse place than it is now. IMHO the open source community is becoming more than just about software and more about what is wrong with society as a whole.
Stay tuned for new sig...
I think the only real surprise to me here is that someone bothered to call MS on the rule-breaking.
That's good to see.
I wonder how many people will bother to download the patch though; I doubt many people keep up to date on that sort of thing. Sneaky on the part of MS, really. By the time someone noticed that they were breaking the rules, it was too late for the vast majority of Windows users.
There exists a browser other than IE? Since when?
As I understand it, the purchase music stuff is a button in Windows Media Player. If you use Windows Media Player to purchase music, don't you expect that it will send you to whomever Microsoft wants you to purchase music from?
Seriously, this complaint is equivalent to asking Apple to send you to Napster when you shop for music with iTunes. It's utterly stupid, and the only reason Microsoft has to worry about it is that they are very unpopular with some government agencies right now.
""Shop for Music Online" option in Windows XP" Well dont use either of those :)
But buying should be on the user browser... thinking that some time ago i think i read somewhere that going by MS browser some Artist where more hard to buy music.
Well its just me.. heheh
and accept the fact that M$FT knows better what you want?
In another suprising turn of events, terrorists have also agreed to stop hijacking airplanes.
That would be better. Dump their DMA riddles WMA and concentrate on making a stable OS for the people not computer litterate to use Linux, or clever enough to use OS X.
What about when the user selects a 3rd party browser as their default, disables IE and does this:
Start > Run > type in "http://SLASHDOT.ORG"
Doesn't IE still show up ?
That should be fixed also...
it's a bit odd that they have a specific button in XP that says *Shop Online for Music*?
Granted they've now allowed folks to browse their music retailing partners web site in a different browser.
But I wonder what business deal has been done with the music retailer(s) so they can have a ready made market of Windows XP users sent direct to their door(s).
Worst
Considering...
"Windows is about choice, you can mix and match all of this stuff," David Fester, general manager of Microsoft's Windows digital media division, told the New York Times. "We believe you should have the same choice when it comes to music services."
What version of Outlook are you using? Mine fires up Moz Firebird no problems, here's a link on how to do it.
I am NaN
I dont see this happening in Windows XP. It launches my mozilla.
I could change the world, but GOD won't give me the source code
Microsoft software (XP) has an option to buy music from a Microsoft Site, and it uses a Microsoft product (IE) to connect to that site...this is bad, evil, monopolistic.
Apple software (iTunes) has an option to buy music from an Apple site ("Music Store"), and it uses an Apple software (iTunes) to connect, and not my default browser (IE)
This is different how?
Public use of any portable music system is a virtually guaranteed indicator of sociopathic tendencies. -- Zoso
There is a differerence between "default browser" and what is associated with *.htm* files.
That is EXACTALLY what your problem is.
Opens in Mozilla on Windows 2000 SP4. Maybe you should fix your computer before you start complaining.
Who wants to shop for music anyway?
The Custom Mary
Coke is going to sue Pepsi for not allowing them to store their beverages in Pepsi equipment?
Coca-Cola executive: BRILLIANT!!
The funny thing is that is not the only MS software that forces IE on you. There are others (especially in VS .NET).
And while I'm on the topic of IE being foisted upon me...
The only Web site that I have problems browsing is microsoft.com. Well, that and MSNBC.com. So much relies on IE. Why are MS coders in such a manic rush to make themselves look so stupid? "Uh, we only know how to write code for IE." I can view multimedia content at every news site except MSNBC, which requires IE and related crap.
OK. Yes. I know why they do it. But, my god. Pick some other way to annoy people in to using your products. That, or actually release a browser that is as good as Firebird. Firebird is in freaking Alpha and it's better than a 10 year old IE. Innovation my ass.
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
What exactly is wrong or immoral about Microsoft's actions in this regard, outside of their violation of the letter of the law?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. How many of the MS critics have never violated laws they perceived to be unjust?
Actually, in a sense I am being forced to. You see, the software I use is only available under Windows (a lot of CAD software and what not). Microsoft's monopoly position has driven the market into a situation where software vendors much support Windows in order to get users and users must use Wnidows in order to get software. Now, all of -my company's- software is written cross platform with wxWindows because it is a no-brainer -- MFC? wxWindows?
But the simple fact is, if I want to make a living, I have to use and support Windows. You could argue that well, just have an unsuccessful business and live poor. You'd be right. I could just live poor.
> That is EXACTALLY what your problem is.
Tally ho, what!
using the word "hijack". Microsoft isn't forcing anyone at gunpoint to do anything.
Yeah, this will probably get modded down since it violates the groupthink.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Do the RIAA and MPAA understand that MS wants to become the middle-man? Whoever controls the keys to DRM would effectively be the funnel through which all protected content must flow. Witness XBox and other consoles business models. I suspect these two organizations are aware of this, but haven't got the technical ability to produce an alternative. At least they're running with Apple on the music side - probably find them less threatening than MS. I suppose this is slightly off-topic :-)
No one is forcing you.
Yes, actually, your hand is being forced. That's kind of what a monopoly is about. Good or bad, you don't really have anywhere else to turn.
Let me emphasize:
Microsoft is found to have a monopoly on desktop i386 operating systems.
You can disagree with that all you want (as your post implicitly does) but that is the fact on the table. Link to an i386 desktop vender with more than 3% of the commodity market who will sell you a computer without Windows preinstalled. If you can't, that means you don't have a choice in whether or not to BUY -- pay for -- Microsoft's license. You buy it or you don't buy a reliable computer.
Now if only they could ship Windows with the "Launch every application in an Internet Explorer Window" turned off by default. I just _love_ having an excel spreadsheet open up in explorer instead of Excel.
btw, you can turn this off for any file type, see http://ask-leo.com/archives/000041.html for instructions.
First of all I don't like MS's approach to software development (particularly the activation garbage you have to go through now) but I don't see that anyone has a right to force MS to stop using IE (yeah they technically weren't forced but the lawsuit threat initiated their response). Take Apple for example - practically everthing on a Mac is proprietary Apple software and you don't see the Mac people going ballistic over it. Forcing MS to make changes to their OS for anything other than privacy violations/blatant security holes isn't right. To illustrate the absurdity of the DOJ policy consider this: I do some scientific programming myself and I usually use the excel plugins for C to generate tables/graphs - if MS is forced to change their OS why shouldn't someone be able to force me to write a program in such away as to force me to generate charts using openoffice/staroffice or even Corel's wordperfect suite? If people don't like MS's software change to linux/freeBSD/MacOS where you can do whatever you want - it just isn't equitable to MS to force them to change stuff in their OS just because a group of people dislike IE (for gosh sakes if you didn't like MS why would you spend the $100+ to use their software?).
Or at least which browser you claim to use.
Just add this to your user.js file (create the file in the same dir as prefs.js if it doesn't exist yet):
user_pref("general.useragent.override", "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1)");
That'll fake it so the site thinks you're using IE 6 on an XP box. Usually, unless the site has something really extraordinary on it, it'll work reasonably okay anyway.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
So they are going to make a patch, whats the guessing WindowsUpdate want automatically selected it? Prehaps it will just totally ignore it
Rus
CPanel + Root from $35/mo - 10% off with discount code SLASHDOT
Lots of programs have oversights where they assume I.E. is your default browser. Dreamweaver, for example, can be told to preview in Netscape, whereby it goes to Netscape, or in Internet Explorer, whereby it goes to your default browser (Opera).
The ______ Agenda
...So now it's "All you bass are NOT belong
to us?"
For Great Justice!!!
Now if only it'd do the same for MSN Messanger 6.1 when you click on 'check your e-mail'
If you don't like MS's products DON'T USE THEM. No one is forcing you.
If you had RTFA, you would have noticed that yes, Microsoft is indeed forcing you to use their software when you use the Shop For Music feature (whatever the fook "Shop For Music" is...I'll be damned if I ever click on "Shop For X" links that come preinstalled in my web browsers or Microsoft OS'es).
The deal with forcing them to allow OEMs to install software that they believe users want (like Moz with popup killing before the recent SP) is because they were using that market share to squeeze out competition - this is called 'ABUSE OF A MONOPOLY' and so they lost the case.
If you want to stop a monopoly abuser, you simply can't do it by persuading people to shop elsewhere: that's why there are laws for this.
You're just naive and I'm tired of hearing this shit.
Justin.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
It's not using main MS products (i.e. Windows) that causes the problem.
It's them forcing you to use thier secondary products that actually have competition, which is the cause of this problem.
Yeah, I use windows, because like it or not, it's pretty much standard. But this doesn't mean that they should be able to make me use thier secondary products for things that i actually have a choice on.
How about this:
Drag a link of EasyCDcreator to the SENDTO folder.
Now use the SendTo link to Burn some files.
Watch MS-CDburner fire up
If an experiment works, something has gone wrong.
I used to look at this sort of thing and be glad MS was changing or doing something right for a change. But lately I can't help but but enjoy when Microsoft screws people. The reason is that there are so many people I know of who claim MS sucks and whatnot. Yet these same people are unwilling to try the alternatives. I hope there are more worms that attack windows. I hope people have to call Microsoft and wait on hold for 2 hours to activate a product they purchased legally. I'm glad MS removed support for win 98. The only way to get through to people is to hit them. So rather than try to stop MS from doing it I'll stand in the corner and laugh. I guess I'm beginning to believe that legal intervention won't change things. The only way for things to change is to let people get screwed by MS enough times (30-40 roughly) then they may begin to start to see some of the problems so many /.ers have with MS.
Then they'll either try a new OS or they'll keep bitching and just keep on taking it. (In my experience people tend to do the later)
People will get what they deserve.....maybe that's a bad way to look at it but oh well....I'm tired of waiting on hold to explain why I have to reinstall my wintendo again.
That impurities quote in your sig came from Dan Quail. I remember reading it during Bush Sr's administration.
If your product is viable it will sell just as well on Apple...or...*gasp* an open source platform.
Maybe you could explain how locking a product out of 90%+ of the desktop market and a sizeable chunk of the server market would make the product sell "just as well". Companies are in business to move product, and giving the finger to that much of the market would be corporate suicide. If Unix/Linux/Mac is your focus, great, but for companies that currently make software for MS platforms, your statement is simply not an option.
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
... I mean, a lot of the computer scientists who work for Microsoft very definitely have an agenda and if its not so much of a social agenda, I don't know what it is.
...
It is naive to think that computing sciences is stagnant or not going anywhere, because it is: in big ways, and small ways, and all kinds of ways. Moores law, and the fundamental principles of computer science, all lead to a heck of a lot more advances in very short periods of time, in ways which fundamentally change our culture. Look at the cultural/technological shift from 1994 to 2004, 10 short years of Internet acceptance in modern society, for example.
Microsoft know this - the core 'knowledge pool' of the company know this. Heck, grand new order thinking, such as PDA-style computing, has been in design and a tangible target in many corporations strategic agenda's for years; the ideal of ubiquitous computers is at least 50 years old.
Microsoft are playing big games. They want to be the ones who turn on the worlds largest computing system, defining the standards for such a beast, and it is this factor that drives the company's strategies of acquisition in technologically compelling competitors
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
How is it wrong for a company to use their company's browser, in their operating system, to launch their music buying site? If you don't like it, use a different OS, or use a different browser, don't use the XP link to buy music. It doesn't seem that hard. What's wrong with a successful company incorporating more than one of their tools to accomplish a goal?
"Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the life-long attempt to acquire it." -Albert Einstein
if i click "premium services" or "subscriptions" or "media guide" it uses its embedded MSIE to take me to windowsmedia.com where i can purchase music (a bit like iTunes) or other music related products, i cannot navigate away from their site as r-click and url control has been disabled
are they going to remove that ? after all this is exactly like having a copy of iTunes and their own store on every windowsXP install in existence, if thats not unfair practice i dont know what is
also if i click on a movie/mp3 link in MSIE (on any site) it opens in a sidebar which also redirects to windowsmedia.com (without permission i might add and has a tracking code attached) where adverts/promotions are shown, there is no way anyone can compete with this as its built into the core of XP (i had to block go.microsoft.com and windowsmedia.com as this was the only way to stop this behaviour) of course the majority of non tech-savvy/aware people wont know how to do this and so are at the mercy of MS's redirects/media tracking and marketing power.
combined with windowsmedia player the whole operating system has multiple callbacks to MS where they redirect you to their choice of destination without permission , can anyone say anti-trust again ?
stopping the default browser is one thing , but they have designed the whole system to get you to commercial services they control so in reality this wont stop their consumer drive much, europe is already warming up the antitrust suits and when an official engineer (for the antitrust) inspects the system i think he will be suprised at the level of integration between MS commercial services and windowsXP
I use Mozilla most of the time, but some sites that I need only use IE (like banking, etc.),i.e. I must use IE frequently, which really sucks.
Makes me wonder if M$ has deals with certain large companies to code for IE on purpose, for instance 10% off on XP purchases if your websites rely on IE, etc.
hey mods. insightful does not mean insiteful.
fair competion is one thing, but microsoft has been declared to be a monopoly. they got there by extremely questionable business practices (no matter which side of the fence you're on, the practices are questionable i hope). as such they have to play by special rules.
they can't lock out compeditors. and forcing their itunes to use their integrated browser as oppose to the user's preferred installed-over-the-default browser is just plain locking competion out.
now that there's a superior product on the "market", ie has effectively lost the browser war. it might take another two years for it to take hold, who knows. ie will now always be playing catch up with mozilla. if there does happen to be an innovative feature in the ie browser, as soon as it hits beta, mozilla will be hard at work implementing a better solution. the only way microsoft can compete with mozilla is to force the use of their application.
oh yeah, and your coke/pepsi and gm/ford examples are completely full of holes in this context. coke (and or consumers) would definately sue pepsi if a pepsi only resturaunt started to advertise having a burger/fries/coke for 3.99$, then you recieve a pepsi. fords brakes have standard user interfaces, and the actual brakes can and are often replaced with aftermarket brakes. anyone who owns a ford has the ability to take the freaking tire off, remote the caliper and see what the interface is for the braking unit. fords don't disrespect (not stop) brakes that aren't ford brakes.
yes we ARE entitled...to tell you to STFU!
At work I am required to use Netscape Mail - can we fix Netscape as well so that it launches my browser of choice instead of Netscape.
No one is forcing you.
Actually, yes they are. Numerous companies require the use of Windows. Many companies have legacy programs that run on x86 under Windows (or DOS) which are not easily or affordably moved to other platforms.
If your product is viable it will sell just as well on Apple...or...*gasp* an open source platform.
Read as -- if you have a monopoly on your market and can force your customers to bend to your whim then you can do whatever the hell you want. Otherwise you're going to kiss your ass goodbye if you move off of the platform that >90% of the world uses.
What's next? Coke is going to sue Pepsi for not allowing them to store their beverages in Pepsi equipment? GM is going to sue ford for not having standard brakes?
Neither Pepsi nor Ford have a monopoly in their markets. Microsoft does.
For some reason in the realm of software both consumers and developers think they are entitled to whatever they want.
Yeah, I never would've thought that changing my default web browser might actually mean that. How foolish of me! I mean, I actually dared to use a product that competes with Microsoft -- clearly Microsoft shouldn't allow me to do that. I'm surprised they haven't had my systems format themselves too.
No other market works that way.
Damn right. I mean, it's absurd to think that you can buy your own phone and use it. Simply rent this nice rotary dial phone from AT&T for a mere $6/mo. If you use another phone, we won't guarantee that you'll be able to place all of your calls, or that it'll work all the time. After all, it's our network and you'll just have to do things our way. If you don't like that, feel free to use something other than the telephone system. The US Postal Service is happy to deliver.
By refusing to stop using Microsoft products and just suing them...they prolong microsoft.
And some people find that they just happen to like using MS OS's because they just happen to like the software available on them. That doesn't mean they like everything else MS produces. Why does using one mean you have to use the other? Particularly when there are alleged interfaces for not doing so?
It's called playing fair. MS hasn't been doing it for well over a decade, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop trying to make them do so.
Take a home user who uses MS Office for work, IE for some (MS Java developed) work extranet site, plays Max Payne 2, Halo and Call of Duty, and uses Photoshop, Outlook (it's compatible with his work mail after all), IIS for some ASP development stuff and uses a brand-spanking-new TV card and his brand-spanking new DVD drive to burn what he records onto DVD-Rs.
You're suggesting he buys a Mac, Office, Photoshop a new TV card and DVD burner (say, $3000 all-in to replace his stuff) and just forgets about playing his games...
Or hey, maybe he could install Linux, lose his ability to work on Office docs (I know about OpenOffice.org and use it exclusively btw, but it's not 100% yet), loses his ability to work in Outlook (including his calendar, contacts etc - stored on the office Exchange server), can forget aaalll about getting his TV card set up without a bunch of kernel patching *at best*, and may as well sell his DVD burner too for that matter. As for his games, well, Transgaming is pretty good, but no DX9 pixel shader support, so Halo and Max Payne 2 are going to be butt-ugly (if they work at all) and all three will be substantially slower than if they were running natively on Windows.
Great idea! Or he could just stay on Windows and not click the "buy music" button if he wants to shop in Firebird.
Linux will dominate Windows over the next few years and will become *the* desktop OS, of this I am sure but in the interim there still isn't enough hardware/software support for people to take the plunge. Until the apps (or a worthy replacement) that people NEED and WANT are avaliable for alternative systems, it's utterly unreasonable to suggest people just "stop using windows".
My PC is an expensive, state-of-the-art piece of kit, and I want to get the most out of it... for that I need to use Windows. Do I like it? No, but I don't have the breadth of choice you seem to think I do, neither does anyone else right now.
Oh, and the imaginary home user above is shit outta luck for doing ASP work locally on Mac or Linux too.
..I'd like Microsoft to have to admit to wrongdoing when they stop doing something wrong.
This "We didn't do it, and we promise to never do it again" shit is getting old.
~Philly
Microsoft is...Hijacking Music-Shopping
they aren't hijacking any shopping - you can still shop at the URL all you want.
opens my Mozilla on Win 2000(no service pack)
the history of the world
Question:
What prevents you from removing WMP or MSIE from your XP install?
Apple's default settings point to its own programs of course, but I'm free to point them somewhere else (mozilla, entourage, whatever)
AND/OR I can throw out what I don't like.
How is that different on XP?
I think, therefore I am...I think.
XP has been out long enough. The wave of early adopters has risen and crashed. A huge bulk of online music shoppers have been unknowingly directed to microsoft's own offerings...the money is already pouring in, and the competition is already damaged.
The fact that they fixed it should not excuse them from the fact that they did it at all.
If you do this, *please* make sure to e-mail the maintainers of the website. Tell them you use Mozilla, and what you had to do -- and whether or not their site actually *does* work with standards.
Otherwise, the fake user agent string just continues to tell them "everyone uses IE anyway, so we're doing the right thing by ignoring those losers".
,i>And for you whiney companies out there who are suing Microsoft, change platforms.
first off this means actually paying IT staff what they are worth to get skilled IT people that could perform such a change, secondly it requires firing every PHB as they have their head's stuck so far up MS's ass they can see the light atthe other end.
Then you need to get an IT staff with the balls to tell whiney users that freak when you change their background color to go to hell.
In Panther, Safari is now needed (unless you have 3rd party tools) to set the default browser. This is a pretty stupid move but I believe it was related to something in a newer version of WebKit. Hopefully this will be fixed in the future.
--- I do not moderate.
Too bad windows didn't come you with a sense of humor, you would have laughed instead of replying that lame dick anal rant.
you're absolutely right its because of ms that half the ppl on the internet are even able to use their computers at all. most of us probably fix computers for friends/neighbors/relatives and know how smart they are. there is no way they'd be able to use linux
I "removed" IE using the Add/Remove programs and using Set Program Access Defaults, set my browser to Opera. After a while, I noticed some pages don't load properly because of the "Best when viewed with IE" message. I uninstall Opera. Now when I click on any links, nothing happens. WinXP does not which browser to load anymore even though I have Mozilla installed on the system. I don't even see Mozilla as an option to set it as default. Is this delibrate, or not, you decide.
I would prefer to set my "Default Music Store" just as I would set my browser or email client. Have the link configurable to launch iTunes or Napster and not just go to some msn web page.
If your product is viable it will sell just as well on Apple...or...*gasp* an open source platform.
What part of ((0.02*0.9)>(1*0.01)) don't you understand.
I'm not a windows fan, in fact, i rarely ever use windows... but I think the world is overreacting, microsoft designed his own product... the world likes it... the world uses it, and now the world tells microsoft what it should do and what it shouldn't do?
If you don't like how windows works, don't use it, i think most monopolistic charges against windows are not fair, I love it that they are getting them, though.
If I build a building, a great building, and let everybody live in it, for a price, of course (although there are people who manage to live there for free)... and suddenly all i get is "the doors dont match with my chairs, change them" I'd get mad.
It's just another point of view, and by no means I support microsoft.
I Just wanted to try to be neutral.
oh, yeah, mod me down for not bashing microsoft, I dont care.
How about because it's Microsoft's damn business what browser they decide to launch when a user clicks a music shopping link? Windows is their product. Users are free to use other browsers or operating systems if they'd like and NOT click their link. Nobody is holding anyone at gunpoint to click their link.
This is bogus. Konquerer is somehow okay to be used everywhere in KDE, but if Microsoft launches IE on a music-shopping link, they're "HIJACKING MUSIC-SHOPPING!"
"Sufferin' succotash."
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.
clicking on that "trust MSFT" button and allowing them to scan your comp, is good as trusting me when i say sharks dont bite, and then going for a swim in shark infested water!
call me a bit paranoid, but when i update my siblings comps, i download the patches manually using mozilla!
Now only if I can get Outlook to open links with mozilla.
I hate cutting and pasting, or heaven's forebid that I click on it and launch IE!
Causing Chaos Everywhere,
Nik J.
The strange world of a loner, in a populous city, drowning in society
Living upto your name eh?
If you've already told your OS which browser you prefer and it launches another, it's restricting choice. MS has been whining so much recently about offering choice (re: iTMS), and yet they do everything to undermine user choice. The internet is supposed to be an open road. I shouldn't have to pull over and switch to a Homer just to drive to a certain store.
The potato it is uninformed.
Let me summarize your post:
1.) Somehow, Microsoft is "forcing" you to click a link.
2.) This link you claim to be forced into clicking is something you don't even know exists or where.
"Sufferin' succotash."
This has to be the most idiotic, most purposely placed post I've seen in this thread.
What's the matter OCG, couldn't get to the story fast enough to get into the early threads? Felt the need to tack your little whiney rant a long way inside a currently-growing, actively-moderated thread so you could soak up some points with your bullshit?
I mean, really, the whole "Wow look at me, I'm a million times better than the rest of you! And I must be right, there are some moderators that agree with me that this site is biased! OH JOY I HAVE FOUND A PLACE IN LIFE!" thing is really fucking weak.
This place is run by idiot editors, moderation points are given to complete idiots (not just the ones that mod you up btw) and the bias is thick enough to support CowboyNeal's weight. Feel proud that you think you're better than the rest of it.
I still don't understand why any geek would willingly use any Microsoft product when Linux is so much better in almost every way. And I still don't understand why anyone in her/his right mind would pay attention to any of the rubbish, lies, deceptions and FUD from Redmond.
Linux is the obvious choice for anyone that values real choice, quality and liberty. End of story.
hey mods. insightful does not mean insiteful.
And "insiteful" doesn't mean inciteful.
What are you saying, that he should be downmodded because you disagree with him for not holding the majority opinion around here?
"Sufferin' succotash."
Back in the early 70's there was a popular bumper-sticker around Boston that read: "Jesus Saves, and Espo puts in the rebound!" (Espo = Phil Espisito for non-hockey fans)
TODO: Insert witty sig
If you install a image viewer like ACDSee all your images are still opened with Windows Image Viewer, EVEN THOUGH if you go into properties of the image it shows, Opens with: ACDSee Click Change, Click ACDSee again and it will then open that type of file format with ACDSee and not Windows Image Viewer. Very Very Annoying
Why would they admit doing something illegal if they don't have to? Why would a company risk getting sued or fined for doing something if they don't have to?
This is the way the legal system, plea bargins, ect work. Both sides end up getting something that's better than the alternative if the other side wins - the DOJ gets what they want, and MS doesn't lose a bunch of money. Both sides would rather have the certainty of that outcome than a partial chance of total victory.
I have blog like everyone else
"You won't know where applications end and the operating system begins." Ick!
Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
LOL! Now I >know you're kidding. You don't have to be clever to use OS X, just tired of getting yanked around by unrepentant crimminals.
... is that what you think about MS behaviour is irrelevant. MS was convicted for abusing its monopoly and that is the end of it.
If your building was the only one in town and you smashed down the rest of them with threats until the only building standing was yours, somebody would have to make sure you are punished as appropriate. A punishment in which you have to change the doors, the chairs or whateve would be just an slap on the wrist since actually you get to keep the building.
You surely would get mad, but the purpose of the legal system is not to please companies that have broken the law.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
insightful: exhibiting insight or clear and deep perception; "an insightful parent"; "the chapter is insightful and suggestive of new
thanks for correcting my spelling error, but it seems my point was obvious. (somehow dictionary.com didn't have inciteful, but did have incite and lists the synonyms as: Syn: Excite; stimulate; instigate; spur; goad; arouse; move; urge; rouse; provoke; encourage; prompt; animate.)
from my perception, i only saw inciteful type remarks in the op, and not really anything that portrayed a clear and deep perception.
Obviously it must not be news. I can't find the story any where on the NBC news site.
B .I.L.L.Y....
Oh Wait, "www.msnbc.msn.com" ????
I think my browser just got hijacked...
Wait my screen is flashing a message, M.S...I.S.G.O.O.D...B.U.Y..M.S...A.L.L..H.A.I.L..
Where did I put that tin foil hat??
Niche apps are the one that keep many orgs stuck with windoze. The general computing needs of 90%+ users are met by all platforms
Niche apps have niche markets. The only real advantage of building for windoze is that your potential market is more likely to have the platform. The lower quality a product need a larger market to succeed. High quality products earn their market by virtue of better quality. The potential market for Theil speakers is much smaller than Sony. Yet, Theil succeeds because they make a superior product that their smaller potential market wants. Do they have the annual sales of Sony? No. Does every company have to be a massive monster of lowest common denominator products megacorp? No. Adobe became successful on Macs, and could certainly have sustained themselves without adding Windows. They did expand, but it wasn't necessary to their survival, just their ubiquity.
The potato it is uninformed.
It's not the fact that they're a monopoly - it's a remedy for them previously ABUSING their monopoly position. Apple doesn't have a monopoly position to abuse.
It's like ruling that a burglar is not allowed to carry a crowbar in the street and the burglar's riposte being "I should be allowed to carry whatever I want". Well, ordinarily you can, but you broke the law and this is the remedy to prevent you doing it again.
I suspect the point of the comment was that saying that IE "hijacks music shopping" implies something far more extensive than merely using IE as the default browser for a few links within WinXP.
don't you see? Since they control the online shopping music pages and that their IE has all kinds of weird proprietary features to it they'll just use HTML and other crap that will break other browsers. Then people who want to use the online music shop will believe that all other browsers suck compared to IE and stick to it anyways.
Do you actually think that MSFT's 600 lawyers would be stupid enough to allow someone to admit to wrongdoing concerning this consent decree? Even once?
Sure, it'd make you feel better. But if they ever did, 99% of the folks here would be calling for blood (yeah, yeah, i know... i mean *more* blood).
For all you that think MS coders are idiots, no, they're not. Look, from a programming standpoint, wouldn't you rather be calling an API from a controller environment that you *know* works that hoping a third-party library works the way it's "supposed to"? You'd better. One might nearly rightly complain I'm showing some of the "ferocious Not Invented Here complex", but there's some reasoning behind the madness. If you want your program to work right, you use what is, in your opinion, the most reliable means to make that happen.
But before you rightfully flame me out of existence, what MS has to understand is that they're not in a position to "do things right" here. There are cultural reasons -- not programming/techincal ones -- that they have to keep in mind. They've been, with reason, found to have leveraged their vast dominance over the desktop OS market into the Internet browser market as well. That's unfair. MS *has* to open up their apps to allow a user's choice or they're, once again, arguably illegally abusing monopoly status.
The lesson here, and it's what most everyone not calling MS hackers a bunch of idiots (which they obviously aren't. I've never seen a better set of ideas come from one company -- at least before they're run though the MS Profit Maximization Machine, (c) 198x) is arguing, whether they know it or not: These cultural lessons aren't being taught to their programmers. Here, MS is culpable, and the people responsible should be held accountable.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
I can't believe you took the time to write all that.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Even though XP is not flying off the shelves, alot of damage is already done. Notice this is an optional download and not a required patch/fix. No fines or penalties were brought against them, just a "you have to stop that from now on". They can probably bury the patch and obfuscate the name so nobody ever installs it. This is the same practice that killed of the browser competition. Too little, too late...
IMHO, they should be required to recall all XP boxes and pay for a qualified technician to install the patch. If anything breaks, Microsoft again pays the bill of fixing it.
Microsoft was found guilty of a federal crime and agreed to abid by the terms of a settlement. This shows that they can break the terms of the settlement and just get a verbal scolding. Exactly the reason why they needed to get busted into tiny pieces. IMHO.
BTW, don't you just love that stuff Microsoft is spewing about how Apple is limiting choice in online music? And how Microsoft is all about choice. These guys lyed on the stand and they have no problem lying to the public, press, investors, etc.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
If you can find out where in the registry it launches IE from, you can change it to point to Mozilla instead. Then export those branches to a reg file and distribute to anyone that wants it. Try searching in regedit for iexplore.exe and see if it shows up as a shell open command or under a Class associated with Outlook.
As the DOJ's "technical expert" during the antitrust trial used that as "evidence" against MS. He stated that if IE was simply replaced as the default browser, it would pop up in about 6-7 instances instead of what was the default browser. As an example, if a URL was typed in the Run box. Oddly enough, even THEN, it wasn't true. I don't remember exactly what those instances were, if you have a copy of the transcripts perhaps you can expand, but in all but one of them, it wasn't true. And that last one was for CHM (Compressed HTML) files. However, one could associate Navigator with those files, and it would open, it would just choke.
Here's a thought before you post something like this: TRY IT FIRST! I know, I know, you have no idea where there's a Windows machine you could try it on, right? You don't have it on any machine you touch. Well, then, perhaps you should stop listening to the Penguin Propaganda station for all your "facts".
Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
http://www.workorspoon.com
they were convicted for anti trust violations, not for having a monopoly.
go click on your link... look for 'monopoly'. then look for 'trust'.
but dont get me wrong... microsoft sucks.
What about the HUGE installed base? Are you planning on ignoring that? If my product costs 100 bucks, and you have to buy a 1200$ mac, or take the training time to learn linux to run it, and my competitor has a similar app at a similar price on Windows, which one do you think a customer is gonna choose (assuming they already have wintel boxes)?
You can try to back up your statement with anecdotal evidence all you want, but that won't make you right.
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
I have to. My company forces me.
Are you a slave, doing only what your master dictates? Go get a different fucking job or something. That's completely your call. No one is forcing you to not go get a different job. And spare us the tired old "family to support" bullshit. Try THINKING for yourself for once before you die.
IE Users: Type about:mozilla into the Address bar. It gives you a blue screen (I wonder if its a threat...).
Frink: Nice try floyd, but you were designed for scrubbing, and scrubbing is what you shall do.
Sure. Going after the bigger installed base opens a larger market. It also has more competition. You can reach more users on the smaller platform because it's users are ignored by the larger marketplace. Left-handed products cater to a smaller market and succeed because they are meeting the needs of an ignored population. They could compete for a share of the right-handed community and suffer. The costs of getting attention among greater competition makes the cost of success higher.
The potato it is uninformed.
Then try "MSIE 6.6.6" and "Windows by Pella" to throw their stats packages off.
2 minutes of my life I'll never get back.
But hey, I'm at work, I'm on fwapdash, may as well have some fun with it all.
I won't deny my own wanking... after all, I'm replying to your reply.
I'd agree with you if ... it was able to view all pages IE could
Do you really want to have ActiveX controls, and all their security issues, show up in Mozilla Firebird?
It wasn't slow to start up.
Does Mozilla Firebird really start any more slowly than Explorer.exe? How many seconds does each take to load on your computer? How fast would Mozilla Firebird start if you used a hypothetical Gecko-based file manager instead of the MSHTML-based Explorer.exe?
I ended up paying for Windows because it was that or no laptop from Dell. Now, does that sound fair to you?
It'd be perfectly fair to Dell. I don't know about the winter of 2000, but in the winter of 2004, I'd say screw Dell and make sure that a manager knows why you're buying something else instead of a Dell system.
Interesting, because I don't see "*.htm" anywhere in the URL "http://www.google.com". The default page's extension for that site could be .asp, .shtml, or any number of things.
I can't afford a sig!
That's a good idea, if Mozilla isn't already associated with opening internet files. But if Outlook just launches IE directly, without consulting shell associations or anything else in the registry, it won't work. In that case, mabye IE's filename is located in one of Outlook's string resources; you could use a resource editor like ResHack to change them.
Looking in the registry, IE is still associated with html files, even though I told the 'program access defaults' control panel that I wanted to use Mozilla.
10 LET M$ = "Microsoft": REM An abbreviation is not an insult
lose his ability to work on Office docs (I know about OpenOffice.org and use it exclusively btw, but it's not 100% yet)
Some users have claimed that OpenOffice.org can read documents in M$ Office formats even more consistently than other versions of M$ Office can. If you need absolute 100 percent compatibility, then forget about upgrading M$ Office. If you forget about upgrading M$ Office, then forget about upgrading Windows when M$ changes Win32 subtly and inadvertently breaks old versions of Office. If you forget about upgrading M$ Windows, then forget about patching it once M$ has announced the End Of Life for your version. If you forget about patching M$ Windows, then forget about connecting your computer to the Internet once black-hats begin to discover new vulnerabilities in Explorer.
loses his ability to work in Outlook (including his calendar, contacts etc - stored on the office Exchange server)
Two words: Ximian Connector.
can forget aaalll about getting his TV card set up without a bunch of kernel patching *at best*
By "TV card" do you refer to TV input cards or to video cards with a TV output? Many consumer TV input cards work Out Of The Box(tm) with Mandrake's V4L drivers, especially the ATI TV Wonder VE.
As for his games, well, Transgaming is pretty good, but no DX9 pixel shader support, so Halo and Max Payne 2 are going to be butt-ugly
That's why you connect your Xbox console to your PC through the TV card that works Out Of The Box(tm) with Mandrake's V4L drivers. Both games you mentioned run just fine on Xbox.
and all three will be substantially slower than if they were running natively on Windows.
So what if composite video runs at 60fps? Do you really need more than 60fps?
I've noticed XP hijacks all sorts of stuff. IE in XP magically doesn't access http://java.sun.com . You HAVE to download another browser, for one example.
Did some searching. Apparently, Sun's JRE plugin wants to see Mozilla 5.0 or higher in the useragent string or it complains. So change the Mozilla/4.0 to a Mozilla/5.0 and that solves that problem. Most servers are checking for the "MSIE" part anyway, so it won't break that part of the change.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I don't see why the courts spend all this time on these minor MS issues while ignoring the very abuses that permit microsoft to maintain it's illegal monopoly. The WIN32 API's Intellectual Property protections prevent competitors from making compatible products thereby reducing the choice that software producers have in platforms to support. If MS were ordered by the courts to release the WIN32 API to the ISO or some other similar organization for administration as a world standard (similar to POSIX...) it would foster proper competition between operating systems as they would all be able to support the defacto standard API that most commercial apps are written for. Just my $0.02
An eye for an eye... leaves the whole world blind.
Outlook 2003 has no problems opening links in Mozilla.
the fact that by "offering a free patch" the doj will not nail Microsoft for violating the Court rulings.
How many people will know about the patch? How many people will download and install the patch even if they know about it?
Offering an optional patch that the average user will never install does not correct the problem. The DOJ should nail Microsoft.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Rather than searching the registry I'd get Regmon, it'll be quicker that way.
"Windows Me offers tremendous reliability and stability improvements..." -- Paul Thurott
There you have it folks, MS should change because Windows is about choice!
...///...
Pepsi is not a monopoly; microsoft is a monopoly. Microsoft must play according to set of laws regulating monopolists.
Please stop being disingenious. Then again IHBT IHL HASD.
Microsoft gives more "soft money" to politicians (both dems and gops) than the next five largest contributers combined. In addition to that, Microsoft spends more money than Enron ever did lobbying Washington. It is no co-incidence that this all started at exactly the same time that the Clinton administration initiated the antitrust lawsuit against them. It is also no co-incidence that the lawsuit was killed shortly after the Bush administration took office.
Money talks.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
There was evidence to prove that Overly Critical Guy is a lying cocksucker, but he deleted it. Think independently.
There was evidence to prove that Overly Critical Guy is a lying cocksucker, but he deleted it. Think independently.
There was evidence to prove that Overly Critical Guy is a lying cocksucker, but he deleted it. Think independently.
There was evidence to prove that Overly Critical Guy is a lying cocksucker, but he deleted it. Think independently.
How nice of Microsoft to deign to abide by the law. So innovative of them.
Now the trick is to get Windows Update available for other browsers.
Thats it.
F00kers.
What else is there to say.
I don't think that word means what you think it means. I don't think it even exists.
People are making a big deal over THIS!?!?!?!?! If you are so stupid that the only way to find music for sale online is by following this link then you need to be banned for computers. I had to hunt high and low before I found this very obscure link. If you are so fucking upset that your preferred browser doesnt load this stupid link, you need to step away from the computer and get a life. Is this the best FUD you can come up with against Microsoft these days? this isn't a flame....this is the motherfucking truth.
Can I ask, who gives a shit? Who isn't a liar anymore? What did he tell you he didn't have a girlfriend, then fuck your brains out and never call you again? Christ you act like a jealous ex lover you weeny. Go back to work you slacker.
Am I the only one who has never had a single problem with IE?
It has a decent feature set, it renders fairly complex sites very quickly and it supports the largest range of web pages.
My only major greivence with it is the ease at which you can mistakenly install an Active X control (which is being addressed with XP service pack 2). Security flaws aren't even a big deal because I do windows updates weekly. Not to mention Microsoft is going to offer automatic windows updates in the near future.
To be quite honest with you, the biggest shortcoming with IE is that it hasn't been fully developed as far as integration with Windows. So much more than the file system and web pages could benifit from the whole browser paradigm (for example, enhanced FTP support), but explorer and IE have a sense of disconnectedness that makes me open a new instance of IE even when I am at a windows explorer window and that bothers me.
http://brandonbloom.name
The same thing happens for "mailto:e-mail@address.com" code in html pages. It opens Outlook Express despite having set my default to thunderbird and disabling access to Outlook.
Fuck you.
Love,
Slashdot
Fuck you.
Love,
Slashdot
So you're tying your panties in a knot because firebird won't render a site the same way that IE renders a site which was only tested in IE? Well, then I'd expect that Firebird would try and make a "IE compatible" mode.
See, regardless of what the written standard is, it takes far more energy to conform to it than it does to keep the legacy going. Case in point, Windows and IE. Microsoft was trying recently to drop support for Windows 98! You'd think that a product developed about 10 years ago and shipped 6 years ago would be ancient history, but people hold onto it log past its prime. The majority of PCs are running Windows 95, 98, ME, and XP. Some people run Windows NT, 2000, and even Windows Server 2003. The point is that Firebird might be standards compliant to the letter of what's written, but IE has the legacy. Sure, it'll render to the standard, but it has its fair share of legacy bugs and will also render a whole lot of stuff just because to change a line of code could break people's sites all over again.
The team of people who wrote IE have all taken their big bonuses and moved on to more interesting work a long time ago. What you see now is what you get.
There can only be two reasons why this type of activity continues to happen with MS:
1) They are trying to eliminate competition whenever possible.
2) Their software engineers are so inept that they don't know how to create a library with a couple of routines to handle "default" browser functionality and can be used by the ENTIRE system.
Click on the Apple menu and notice the "Get Mac OS X Software" link.
I saw this on a computer at work. I can't remember what versions of Outlook and IE are on that computer.
Using Mozilla with Yahoo Mail loses functionality. They wrote the Richtext editor to use IFRAME. If you ask for the page from Mozilla, they send a different and less functional page than is it is requested from MSIE. If you tell Mozilla to fake the UserAgent, you receive the page for MSIE, but it is now nonfunctional since Mozilla cannot handle IFRAMES.
I do not know why Yahoo ever used IFRAMEs for this. It does nothing that has not been done many places using a Java Applet.
It could also be handled with a TEXTAREA, if you were willing to display the tags and have a Preview to see what would be displayed. (WYSOWYWGIYHNCASYLCP: What You See Is What You Would Get If You Have Not Changed Anything Since You Last Clicked Preview) That is what we use on Slashdot, but I would expect Yahoo to force a Preview if anything was changed.
Hey, that would be useful here too. Let it return the Preview even if you clicked Submit if what is submitted does not match the previous Submit. It would also slow down the FPers.
---
This information is actually about my father's use of the computer. I rarely use web-based email, and have yet to send an HTML-formatted memo. He used Mozilla 1.3, but reported the same issues after switching to Mozilla 1.5. He used the PrefBar with 1.3. I do not know if he tested faking the UserAgent with 1.5. Anybody know if Mozilla 1.5 can handle IFRAMES? I guess I should test it for him.
My father did try to contact Yahoo. He spent quite some time on toll calls asking if they would fix this. It was very difficult to find someone who would admit to having any authority about the system, and they told him they do not want input about their webmail system, even from paid subscribers.
Maybe they will fix it as the number of companies that do not allow MSIE increases. Maybe they will just lose customers. Isn't Google about to launch googlemail.com? Maybe Google will announce that their webmail is fully standard compliant and will work in Mozilla and Opera as well as it does with MSIE.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
Be careful to follow the MS standard when sending UserAgents:
Name/#.# (xxx; xxx #.#; xxx)
At least one major webmail program insists on the semicolons. It returns a VB error if it cannot find a semicolon. (Yes, this has more to do with poor programming than the VB language.) This mail program is either used by many websites, or they all hired incompetent programmers.
I discovered this when testing a Java program that retrieves webpages. The UserAgent was originally "Java1.3.1", and kept returning error pages. I knew the error was not in my program since my code was not VB.
The RFC1945 section 3.7 says the product tokens should be "Name#.#". User-Agent is specifically detailed in section 10.15. RFC2068 is the update in sections 3.8 and 14.42. Neither mentions using semicolons, or even using parantheses for additional comments. Just that the product should be a name with an optional "/" and a version number.
NOTE: Java is missing the slash in its product name. Since the slash is to precede the version, "Java1.3.1" is just a product name, and there is no version number. Is this what Sun meant? (This also happened with the IBM JVM, so I assume it is in the specification.)
Since MS started it, most browsers add a paranthesized section to identify their true name, since they all claim to be Mozilla. At least one VB programmer thinks this is the true specification. I wonder what he thinks Mozilla is. (Oops, sexist. Any female want to argue that they can program that poorly too?)
---
If you want to see the error, send a UserAgent without semicolons to "webmail4.mail1.com".
Their homepage says:
Univeral Access: Use any software like Outlook
I wonder if they know there is no other software as bad as Outlook, or that Outlook is far from Universal. Or did they mean that using software like Outlook guarantees Universal Access, meaning everybody has access to your data?
I spend my life entertaining my brain.