Personally, the idea of NOT having a $200+ mp3 player is laughable.
I tend to be outside a lot - yard work and exercise (running, stadium stairs, etc). A CD based mp3 player is too large and bulky for what I want. But a small mp3 player - perfect! I've got a samsung player, have had it for 6 months, and have found it perfect for my needs.
So you bought the game and gave your flatmate the right to play the game as the authorized user.
You, as an unauthorized user, who have no rights to the game in the first place as you did not agree to the EULA which gives you certain rights, attempt to distribute something based on work someone else has done which you refused to acknowledge.
Actually, there is one other aircraft that could possible carry the Phoenix. The F-111 originally had a naval variant that was to carry the AIM-54. It was cancelled, and the F-14 was developed to carry that weapon system.
It's about having aircraft near a battle capable of responding quickly to support requests with the appropriate amounts of firepower, accurately delivered.
This requires either a very fast aircraft, or a very survivable aircraft. A good CAS aircraft can carry a large quantity and variety of weapons. I heard a joke that an A-10 pilot, when asked by an F-16 pilot what he carried, answered "F-16's".
The A-10 was the most unusual aircraft the US has ever built. Designed around a single weapon (the Avenger 30mm cannon) capable of destroying and vehicle and most land targets - it's unique and won't be replaced for a long time.
Of course, the battle it was designed to fight is also gone. No modern army is capable of surviving a prolonged conventional battle with the US - we have too much firepower available.
Ugly? How about the A-10 or C-17 aircraft? The A-10 is ugly, ungainly, slow and can carry way, WAY too much. The first time I saw the A-10 firing - I stopped in awe. The 30mm cannon on it is simply awsome.
The biggest thing that you are missing is that when you give someone an mp3, you still retain the physical cd. If you give (or sell) the cd to a music store, the physical item has been transitioned from one owner to another. Legally, you should retain no copies.
Think physical possesion.
How does this relate to a file purchased and downloaded, with no physical medium - much tougher question!
What is my advice - work with a financial planner.
Seems simple, yes? Consider this - when your health is at risk, most people go to a doctor. Why isn't your financial health just as important?
During most of the 90's, you could throw darts and make obscene returns. Welcome to the current market, where the market moves in odd ways. It's harder to invest successfully in this market.
I do not advocate that Joe Average stay out of the market. Approached intelligently, the stock market is an excellent way to develop a solid plan for the future - large purchases, kids, retirement, etc.
My investment tool of choice is not a stock, but a mutual fund. I research the various funds, including their long-term history, markets they invest in and the history of the mutual fund family (VERY important!). I also look at the managers of the mutual fund - are they new? Where did they come from, etc. Here is an excellent resource for that. There are other sites as well.
I really like the mutual fund as an investment tool. They are managed by professionals who are capable of performing the research needed, and can respond quickly to market movement. Mutual funds also help to spread some risk out by investing in a variety of companies. This doesn't always help if an entire sector collapses, but it can mitigate losses.
Another option is to get a good stockbroker who will recommend stocks to you. Even there, a good rule of thumb is to stick with stocks you know something about - even if you just know what the company does. You can get into trouble investing in companies you've never heard of. At the very least, know the companies industry and have a rough idea of how well that industry is doing.
The best thing Joe Average can do is invest now. Immediately. Even if it's just a bit - it adds up. Try this - take two people. Adam invests $2,000 a year for seven years. He spends the next 25 years or so spending that money. Bob does the opposite - spends 2K a year for seven years, then saves it for 25 years. Assume a 10% interest rate - see how much they each have at the end. Pretty interesting.
Investing is complicated - establish a good working relationship with a professional and let him help you. Find someone that YOU feel comfortable dealing with. Trust your gut. Make sure you understand what they are saying, make the broker explain things to you. Ask why he likes certain investments, and not others. Make him answer the tough questions - a good broker will take the time to explain things to you.
I'm biased, but you are in the St. Louis area - try this company. Yeah - it's my dad's firm - I'm biased, remember?
Very interesting comment - it hit several issues that exist in the financial markets, but are starting to be noticed by larger audiences.
You did miss a critical point, though.
First, to be totally up front my family has been involved in the financial planning market for over three decades. My grandfather and father are principals of a private investment planning firm in Missouri. I do not work there, nor am I a broker in any way. I have grown up around this industry.
The stock market of today is used by many people as a wealth-generation tool. People think that the stock market is around to help people make money.
As part of this, investors crave information. Lots of it. Thus the analyst industry was spawned. This area is rapdily turning into a "buddy" network, and getting more corrupt all the time.
You see, quite a few analysts work for large brokerage firms, and their income is based on the activity in the stocks they analyze. Good, bad, doesn't matter - just get the performance.
See a problem there? It's starting to get noticed by the SEC, but that's just a start.
Companies will do anything to get a good recommendation from an analyst, and blackball ones that give bad recs.
Moral - don't trust an analyst. Do your own research. And hope you don't get screwed anyway in the end.
You've never tried to teach, or spent an extended period of time with a teacher in a classroom, have you?
I'm not a teacher, but have helped out several times at a local school (gf is a teacher).
I could not be a teacher. Period. I do not have the skills needed. After a few days in the classroom (and the kids LIKED me), I was ready to run out screaming.
In terms of total time worked, most teachers, during the school year, easily work more than 45+ hours a week. A lunch break - yeah, while you supervise kids. Nice break usually. Most teachers are paid on the assumption that they work 9 months, not 12.
Show them some respect for doing a job most people can't do.
I don't think there are any false advertising issues here. A price was advertised that was wrong. The error was discovered and corrected. Usually, false advertising covers things like lying about features of a product, the actual product sold and the usual bait and switch scams.
Also, remember that an advertised price does not constitute an offer.
With Loki out of business, I don't see these patches or T2:FA being released to Linux. I'm not thrilled about that - T2 runs a touch faster on Linux, but the sound is better on W2K - take your pick. Framerate, or the audio cues.
Quite an interesting discussion - I'm enjoying it. But enough of the prelude - on to the debate!
First - Microsoft. Here are my opinions about them as a company. Fairly decent techinically, extremely effective marketing, absolutely ruthless in competition. Monopoly - yes. No question. Harm to business - yes. No question. Harm to society - probably.
I've also got very good friends who are teachers. Two of them teach for a large high school, desperate for funding. I've been helping for quite some time. I know what's going on, and know quite well. So yes, I've been "IN" a school recently, both well-to-do and tragically poor. Does that background satisfy you?
Funding for Education has been hit hard by the economic downturn, harder than most funding areas. The wealthly school districts are able to handle the downturn due to high tax bases and reserves. Other districts aren't so lucky. These are the ones that barely afford teachers, and often not enough of them. One of my friends recently transferred to a new school, in a new district, and is making $10k more. Plus having motivated students, etc.
I'm not concerned about districts with money - they can do what they want, they can afford it. It would be nice for them to support open source, and would provide an excellent learning opportunity for the kids. Some schools have done this, and made it work.
The poorer schools have enough trouble getting basic computers, and are often running old versions of software on old systems. Yeah, linux would be great here. But they can't support it. They don't have the funding, they don't have the staff, and open source has fallen down in this area.
A large company can do something that open source cannot - focus resources on a problem quickly. Open source potentially can get more resources working on a problem, but it takes time to get it there. Rarely is there a sustained effort made to correct an issue.
The education system as a whole has an extreme technology divide between have and have-nots. I don't really care where the solution comes from - it just needs to come, and soon. My father is from a very small town. In my house I have more computers than his high school. That's wrong.
Solving this problem is NOT going to come from one company - both hardware and software is needed. Microsoft is a company that can provide, from one source, operating systems, productivity tools and development tools. Yeah, it means kids are going to grow up using MS tools. And? The graphical interface for most tools (that have them) really doesn't change much. Most people can go from app to app without consulting the manual on basic usage.
It's not a fun environment in a struggling school district. It takes time and money to create a new system on your own. Open source relies on people taking initiative, then asking for help. This works great - you get people who are interested in the project. But poor schools don't have that time and don't have that money. They NEED for someone who IS interested to come in and help. THAT'S where a community is needed. If Microsoft is willing to do that - more power to them. That (to me) is what large companies should do - use profits to grow the business and the community around them. Open source can also help - but the open source needs to get involved.
You can't just sit back and wait for someone to ask for help all the time.
Sometimes, when you know there's a need, you've got start things off.
I don't really care about the cost per license - THAT was the point of my post. You think that the open source community can handle supporting a school environment - THEN WHY HAVEN'T THEY?!?
I'm not talking about 1 or 2 schools - I'm talking about support across a district, in a rural setting, where they REALLY need the help.
Can't you break out of the mindless, kneejerk Microsoft Is Bad attitude? WHY is it so bad that for schools to get resources from them.
Oh, that's right - extending the monopoly, blah, blah, blah. Sheesh - find a new arguement, please. They've got a monopoly, and I agree that it's hurting industry. Let's put that aside, unless you can show how it applies here. Putting a platform in a schools does nothing (ask Apple how this helped them out).
I'd love to see schools across the country have the option to choose - but the open source community has NOT stepped up yet. Are you ready to walk into a school in an inner city where teachers are regularly abused (at that's just in St. Louis!)? How about in East Prairie, MO?
Didn't think so.
Right now, Windows is easier for non-techinical people to deal with. Non-technical. Teachers.
"They should use their dollars more wisely and support open source."
Sorry - but I've got to take exception to this. HOW is this wise? In general, open source requires more technical expertise to install, manage and support than MS. If you know what you are doing, it may be easier, but you've got to get past the learning curve.
Most poor schools don't have that available. Not by faculty, not by staff, not by contractors and certainly not by students.
If MS is willing to donate Windows/Office to poor schools (both urban and rural), hey great! They need everything they can get. Don't bash MS for doing good - see the positive. So what if these students learn to use Windows. Apple in the 80's was a HUGE supporter of schools. Many schools had dozens of Macs, but no PCs. So what do I use - the PC. The arguement of "brainwashing" the youth into using a particular platform just doesn't hold water - sorry.
This is a company doing business in this country - why shouldn't they be required to follow our laws? Would you want a company in, ohhh, say some third world county, with extremely lax laws, sell, ummm, explosives, smallpox virus, or various other things to consumers in the US?
Okay, rather extreme example, and there are various import restrictions regulating, but the point is that most countries, if you do business with their citizens, will allow you to be tried under their laws. It's not just the US doing this.
Interesting, I read through your link and found this:
Subscriber may not run a server in connection with the optimum online service, nor may subscriber provide network services to others via the optimum online service Examples of prohibited uses include, but are not limited to, running servers for mail, http, ftp, irc and dhcp and multi-user interactive forums.
You are implicitly agreeing to the contract by using the software. You may also be getting into the gray area of fraud by your actions. You know the license, don't like the license, and use someone else (who is a minor, and thus can void contracts) to get through the license. Note that, if I remember correctly, when a contract is voided by a minor, it's not a one-sided void. Everything needs to get reset - that would include the removal of the software package.
Although a humorous idea, I'd suggest avoiding any major disputes using it.
This sucks for the kid - but I can understand where Apple is coming from. Being a minor, NO contract he agrees to is valid - he could do anything he wanted to with whatever information he gets from Apple.
I understand the minor concept, and where it came from, but maybe this hard and fast rule needs to be reevaluated. But what would the criteria be?
Slashdot Mirror
Personally, the idea of NOT having a $200+ mp3 player is laughable.
I tend to be outside a lot - yard work and exercise (running, stadium stairs, etc). A CD based mp3 player is too large and bulky for what I want. But a small mp3 player - perfect! I've got a samsung player, have had it for 6 months, and have found it perfect for my needs.
-- Ravensfire
Well, if it had said the Cubs won, everyone would have known it to be a fake!
So you wouldn't mike Enron, AA, WorldCom, etc execs doing just community service, and fines that they can't pay and so are meaningless?
Never mind how many lives they ruined, suicides caused, etc.
After all, it's just white-collar crime. Nobody got hurt, just some financial statements, right?
Excellent!
So you bought the game and gave your flatmate the right to play the game as the authorized user.
You, as an unauthorized user, who have no rights to the game in the first place as you did not agree to the EULA which gives you certain rights, attempt to distribute something based on work someone else has done which you refused to acknowledge.
Actually, there is one other aircraft that could possible carry the Phoenix. The F-111 originally had a naval variant that was to carry the AIM-54. It was cancelled, and the F-14 was developed to carry that weapon system.
CAS is about more than just stand-off weaponry.
It's about having aircraft near a battle capable of responding quickly to support requests with the appropriate amounts of firepower, accurately delivered.
This requires either a very fast aircraft, or a very survivable aircraft. A good CAS aircraft can carry a large quantity and variety of weapons. I heard a joke that an A-10 pilot, when asked by an F-16 pilot what he carried, answered "F-16's".
The A-10 was the most unusual aircraft the US has ever built. Designed around a single weapon (the Avenger 30mm cannon) capable of destroying and vehicle and most land targets - it's unique and won't be replaced for a long time.
Of course, the battle it was designed to fight is also gone. No modern army is capable of surviving a prolonged conventional battle with the US - we have too much firepower available.
Ugly? How about the A-10 or C-17 aircraft? The A-10 is ugly, ungainly, slow and can carry way, WAY too much. The first time I saw the A-10 firing - I stopped in awe. The 30mm cannon on it is simply awsome.
Sorry, breach of contract is generally a civil matter, not criminal.
Some game companies do allow returns. Sierra for one - I remember this from the many issues people were having with Tribes 2.
As a Missouri resident who voted for him - let's try for the entire story.
After the plane crash, his wife decided to "run" in his place. Given the time frame, it was impossible to change the ballot.
There is a bit more to this, involving the governor selecting a replacement, etc, but people were voting for Jean Carnahan.
The biggest thing that you are missing is that when you give someone an mp3, you still retain the physical cd. If you give (or sell) the cd to a music store, the physical item has been transitioned from one owner to another. Legally, you should retain no copies.
Think physical possesion.
How does this relate to a file purchased and downloaded, with no physical medium - much tougher question!
What is my advice - work with a financial planner.
Seems simple, yes? Consider this - when your health is at risk, most people go to a doctor. Why isn't your financial health just as important?
During most of the 90's, you could throw darts and make obscene returns. Welcome to the current market, where the market moves in odd ways. It's harder to invest successfully in this market.
I do not advocate that Joe Average stay out of the market. Approached intelligently, the stock market is an excellent way to develop a solid plan for the future - large purchases, kids, retirement, etc.
My investment tool of choice is not a stock, but a mutual fund. I research the various funds, including their long-term history, markets they invest in and the history of the mutual fund family (VERY important!). I also look at the managers of the mutual fund - are they new? Where did they come from, etc. Here is an excellent resource for that. There are other sites as well.
I really like the mutual fund as an investment tool. They are managed by professionals who are capable of performing the research needed, and can respond quickly to market movement. Mutual funds also help to spread some risk out by investing in a variety of companies. This doesn't always help if an entire sector collapses, but it can mitigate losses.
Another option is to get a good stockbroker who will recommend stocks to you. Even there, a good rule of thumb is to stick with stocks you know something about - even if you just know what the company does. You can get into trouble investing in companies you've never heard of. At the very least, know the companies industry and have a rough idea of how well that industry is doing.
The best thing Joe Average can do is invest now. Immediately. Even if it's just a bit - it adds up. Try this - take two people. Adam invests $2,000 a year for seven years. He spends the next 25 years or so spending that money. Bob does the opposite - spends 2K a year for seven years, then saves it for 25 years. Assume a 10% interest rate - see how much they each have at the end. Pretty interesting.
Investing is complicated - establish a good working relationship with a professional and let him help you. Find someone that YOU feel comfortable dealing with. Trust your gut. Make sure you understand what they are saying, make the broker explain things to you. Ask why he likes certain investments, and not others. Make him answer the tough questions - a good broker will take the time to explain things to you.
I'm biased, but you are in the St. Louis area - try this company. Yeah - it's my dad's firm - I'm biased, remember?
You did miss a critical point, though.
First, to be totally up front my family has been involved in the financial planning market for over three decades. My grandfather and father are principals of a private investment planning firm in Missouri. I do not work there, nor am I a broker in any way. I have grown up around this industry.
The stock market of today is used by many people as a wealth-generation tool. People think that the stock market is around to help people make money.
As part of this, investors crave information. Lots of it. Thus the analyst industry was spawned. This area is rapdily turning into a "buddy" network, and getting more corrupt all the time.
You see, quite a few analysts work for large brokerage firms, and their income is based on the activity in the stocks they analyze. Good, bad, doesn't matter - just get the performance.
See a problem there? It's starting to get noticed by the SEC, but that's just a start.
Companies will do anything to get a good recommendation from an analyst, and blackball ones that give bad recs.
Moral - don't trust an analyst. Do your own research. And hope you don't get screwed anyway in the end.
You've never tried to teach, or spent an extended period of time with a teacher in a classroom, have you?
I'm not a teacher, but have helped out several times at a local school (gf is a teacher).
I could not be a teacher. Period. I do not have the skills needed. After a few days in the classroom (and the kids LIKED me), I was ready to run out screaming.
In terms of total time worked, most teachers, during the school year, easily work more than 45+ hours a week. A lunch break - yeah, while you supervise kids. Nice break usually. Most teachers are paid on the assumption that they work 9 months, not 12.
Show them some respect for doing a job most people can't do.
Computer literacy is what you use as a indicator for intelligence?
.... that eliminates quite a few rather smart people in this world.
Wow
Bad example.
Assuming when you took the guys money that the two of you signed a contract, listing out the specs of the computer - you're quite probably stuck.
Especially if you're dealing with a reader of this site.
I don't think there are any false advertising issues here. A price was advertised that was wrong. The error was discovered and corrected. Usually, false advertising covers things like lying about features of a product, the actual product sold and the usual bait and switch scams.
Also, remember that an advertised price does not constitute an offer.
-- Ravensfire
Not quite.
Tribes 2 was developed by Sierra. After the game was released, and several patches were released, most of the T2 team was released.
A new patch has been announced - no idea when it will be released.
In addition, Sierra is releasing T2: Fast Attack.
With Loki out of business, I don't see these patches or T2:FA being released to Linux. I'm not thrilled about that - T2 runs a touch faster on Linux, but the sound is better on W2K - take your pick. Framerate, or the audio cues.
-- Ravensfire
Quite an interesting discussion - I'm enjoying it. But enough of the prelude - on to the debate!
First - Microsoft. Here are my opinions about them as a company. Fairly decent techinically, extremely effective marketing, absolutely ruthless in competition. Monopoly - yes. No question. Harm to business - yes. No question. Harm to society - probably.
I've also got very good friends who are teachers. Two of them teach for a large high school, desperate for funding. I've been helping for quite some time. I know what's going on, and know quite well. So yes, I've been "IN" a school recently, both well-to-do and tragically poor. Does that background satisfy you?
Funding for Education has been hit hard by the economic downturn, harder than most funding areas. The wealthly school districts are able to handle the downturn due to high tax bases and reserves. Other districts aren't so lucky. These are the ones that barely afford teachers, and often not enough of them. One of my friends recently transferred to a new school, in a new district, and is making $10k more. Plus having motivated students, etc.
I'm not concerned about districts with money - they can do what they want, they can afford it. It would be nice for them to support open source, and would provide an excellent learning opportunity for the kids. Some schools have done this, and made it work.
The poorer schools have enough trouble getting basic computers, and are often running old versions of software on old systems. Yeah, linux would be great here. But they can't support it. They don't have the funding, they don't have the staff, and open source has fallen down in this area.
A large company can do something that open source cannot - focus resources on a problem quickly. Open source potentially can get more resources working on a problem, but it takes time to get it there. Rarely is there a sustained effort made to correct an issue.
The education system as a whole has an extreme technology divide between have and have-nots. I don't really care where the solution comes from - it just needs to come, and soon. My father is from a very small town. In my house I have more computers than his high school. That's wrong.
Solving this problem is NOT going to come from one company - both hardware and software is needed. Microsoft is a company that can provide, from one source, operating systems, productivity tools and development tools. Yeah, it means kids are going to grow up using MS tools. And? The graphical interface for most tools (that have them) really doesn't change much. Most people can go from app to app without consulting the manual on basic usage.
It's not a fun environment in a struggling school district. It takes time and money to create a new system on your own. Open source relies on people taking initiative, then asking for help. This works great - you get people who are interested in the project. But poor schools don't have that time and don't have that money. They NEED for someone who IS interested to come in and help. THAT'S where a community is needed. If Microsoft is willing to do that - more power to them. That (to me) is what large companies should do - use profits to grow the business and the community around them. Open source can also help - but the open source needs to get involved.
You can't just sit back and wait for someone to ask for help all the time.
Sometimes, when you know there's a need, you've got start things off.
-- Ravensfire
FUD, Fud, fud.
I don't really care about the cost per license - THAT was the point of my post. You think that the open source community can handle supporting a school environment - THEN WHY HAVEN'T THEY?!?
I'm not talking about 1 or 2 schools - I'm talking about support across a district, in a rural setting, where they REALLY need the help.
Can't you break out of the mindless, kneejerk Microsoft Is Bad attitude? WHY is it so bad that for schools to get resources from them.
Oh, that's right - extending the monopoly, blah, blah, blah. Sheesh - find a new arguement, please. They've got a monopoly, and I agree that it's hurting industry. Let's put that aside, unless you can show how it applies here. Putting a platform in a schools does nothing (ask Apple how this helped them out).
I'd love to see schools across the country have the option to choose - but the open source community has NOT stepped up yet. Are you ready to walk into a school in an inner city where teachers are regularly abused (at that's just in St. Louis!)? How about in East Prairie, MO?
Didn't think so.
Right now, Windows is easier for non-techinical people to deal with. Non-technical. Teachers.
"They should use their dollars more wisely and support open source."
Sorry - but I've got to take exception to this. HOW is this wise? In general, open source requires more technical expertise to install, manage and support than MS. If you know what you are doing, it may be easier, but you've got to get past the learning curve.
Most poor schools don't have that available. Not by faculty, not by staff, not by contractors and certainly not by students.
If MS is willing to donate Windows/Office to poor schools (both urban and rural), hey great! They need everything they can get. Don't bash MS for doing good - see the positive. So what if these students learn to use Windows. Apple in the 80's was a HUGE supporter of schools. Many schools had dozens of Macs, but no PCs. So what do I use - the PC. The arguement of "brainwashing" the youth into using a particular platform just doesn't hold water - sorry.
-- Ravensfire
This is a company doing business in this country - why shouldn't they be required to follow our laws? Would you want a company in, ohhh, say some third world county, with extremely lax laws, sell, ummm, explosives, smallpox virus, or various other things to consumers in the US?
Okay, rather extreme example, and there are various import restrictions regulating, but the point is that most countries, if you do business with their citizens, will allow you to be tried under their laws. It's not just the US doing this.
-- Ravensfire
Interesting, I read through your link and found this:
Subscriber may not run a server in connection with the optimum online service, nor may subscriber provide network services to others via the optimum online service
Examples of prohibited uses include, but are not limited to, running servers for mail, http, ftp, irc and dhcp and multi-user interactive forums.
Good idea - but that won't work.
You are implicitly agreeing to the contract by using the software. You may also be getting into the gray area of fraud by your actions. You know the license, don't like the license, and use someone else (who is a minor, and thus can void contracts) to get through the license. Note that, if I remember correctly, when a contract is voided by a minor, it's not a one-sided void. Everything needs to get reset - that would include the removal of the software package.
Although a humorous idea, I'd suggest avoiding any major disputes using it.
This sucks for the kid - but I can understand where Apple is coming from. Being a minor, NO contract he agrees to is valid - he could do anything he wanted to with whatever information he gets from Apple.
I understand the minor concept, and where it came from, but maybe this hard and fast rule needs to be reevaluated. But what would the criteria be?