"I use Linux on my desktop. It's great. It's beautiful. But it's *still not ready* for the desktop - as in, it's still not ready to compete with Windows - because it's still more comparable with Windows 3.1 than it is with Windows XP."
Erm, no...KDE 3.x is more comparable to XP. Ever looked at Win 3.1? Doesn't sound like it...Quite a few users booted DOS without that Win shell as it took over head.
"Maybe my viewpoint is narrow. Or maybe I'm as big a power user as you can get without actually *thinking* in C."
Define "power user" as I am sure those folks who use Blender, Houdini etc think themselves as power users.
"Note that I administer my own domain on a server farm of Linux and OpenBSD machines which live in my bedroom."
Pretty common nowadays...At least amongst geeks and even see non techs starting to do this now too.
"Your lack of a realistic viewpoint and your immediate dismissal of my page as FUD is symptomatic of what is wrong with the Linux/OS community, and why I'm starting to believe that Linux will never be able to get its shit together enough to be more of a fringe group like Apple users."
A perspective from someone who runs servers in his bedroom vs others who walk, talk and run large systems with real customers?
"Try using Windows 2000 or XP sometime. Look at it from a user's perspective - you know, the sort of idiot who opens e-mail virii and who makes the *bulk* of the computer-using public. From that perspective, Windows is great. It does everything reasonably well, whether you're a newbie or expert. Linux doesn't do that yet, and therefore isn't as good a desktop solution as Windows."
And they hate it as they still get confused...Then they go to a comp store and come home with a Mac and end up confused with that too...Your point is? I find Windows so lacking in configurability and in so many other ways it just annoys me to no end. And before you say anything, yes I have used Mac Os 8.x to Jaguar, Linux extensively (barring 2.5.x kernel) Windows from Dos 5.x Win 3.1 to Win XP (many of those in professional environments).
"I'm waiting for the day someone can prove me wrong, but until you get some actual real-world experience with what end-users want from their operating systems, you'll still just be a whiny 14-year-old living in Mommy and Daddy's basement."
How can you be proved wrong with an opinion piece? You've settled on what you want and want you can do to make it happen. But remember what might be the right tool for the job today could well be not the right tool for the job tomorrow. You should re-read what you wrote, talking about servers in a bedroom and then saying 14 year old whiny kids with computers in a basement makes on wonder about you and your experiencee:).
So what are you after? A cluster or a single powerful uber machine?
Take some advice...IBM, Sun, HP et al have enterprise departments ready to give you excellent advice and deals based on what you're doing. Of course this should be a different experience than if you are I went to CompUSA and asked for a computer without knowing what you wanted or needed:).
"Time spent in reconnaisence is time seldom wasted", well worth remembering that British Army proverb...
You're correct...And if you actually look at most jobs out there now most require quite a bit of programming experience even for so caleld Sys Admin jobs.
Maybe later it'll become an issue, but from people I know they look down on cert's and will be looking at experience.
HelpDesk and what else you're doing with computers is going to help more...If you spend time helping out with projects etc this is worth putting on the resume and is worth much more than a paper that gos along with the stack load of others you have.
If Apple see enough people using Linux for Quicktime they ought to release software native to the platform if it is showing signs of growth.
This is the trouble with the current corporations, they seem to wait for someone else to create the market and then muscle their way in. The danger here I believe is losing out on the market and have some other company (or group) gain the share. Of course the alternative is to sue potential competitor out of existence...
Wouldn't a bunch of journalists needing and wanting fame and fortune trump up a bunch of charges against such an adventure? Whats the safety aspects involved in peroxide manufacture?
I see which frequency you're using to get a response:).
Failure of the Movie? Perhaps Wil can mumble something about the lack of leeches...I mean the lack of his part or perhaps the script was flawed in some way?
Maybe Trekkies are marrying non-trekkie's? Who knows...
Why do people always assume that after using KDE or Gnome for a awhile they move to something else like WindowMaker etc? Thats just shit.
I know and have worked with enough long term Linux people that their tastes are varied enough that they will choose environments which they like (and all environments have shortcomings, each one tickles you in a different way).
You like an environment you really enhoy, good for you and the same for anyone else that tries new things:). But don't ever fall into the trap that what you're using is the best for everyone.
Yes I really like KDE 3.1, but you can only do so much to an environment to get a different experience.
StarTux
Re:Make software, not war!
on
Corporate KDE
·
· Score: 0, Offtopic
Flamebait? Huh?
Germany should be Kermany
on
Corporate KDE
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Time for a name change, I propose Germany be renamed to Kermany:).
Must send e-mail to the Kerman Kovernment. StarTux
Re:Game developers shooting themselves in the foot
on
Infinite Games?
·
· Score: 1
I miss those random type games terribly and it actually wanted me to buy more with different types of varience (how different can it really be each time). Graphics are constantly improving for one, another would be constant improvements in hardware as well as software techniques.
How different can it possibly be each time? I really think creating a whole 100% world that has graphics that exceeds what they use in the movies is still way in the future, even then its still going to need and could do with improvement or additions beyond AI.
Despite what the average Troll on either side says, both do complement each other well. And when you mention Open Source to an Apple developer they light up, they truly do seem very pleased about having Linux/Open Source thriving.
But I am disappointed that Quicktime hasn't been released to Linux as a native app and iTunes still doesn't encode in Ogg yet.
"The fact is, new games only come out for Windows."
The fact is you are wrong, *most* top titles do come out for Windows as that is where the monopoly is. Uplink, as I mentioned in another thread came out for both Windows and Linux as did Terminus. Others have only been a week or two behind, excluding Bioware's NWN, which we're still waiting on for the client.
"Personally I'm like most people, my windows box (and PS2) is for games and my Linux box is my file server, shell box for programming, and all around general purpose workhorse."
Like most people who don't think about their actions...
"The Windows box is just a desktop for browsing IE only sites and a game machine. "
Then get Winex and Crossover Office at least, you can use IE within wine and don't have to worry about the Windows.
Support Linux or Mac and help bring diversity back to the computing platform, its much better for the computing ecosystem. But then you'd rather sit there and talk about right tools for the right job, how on Earth did the tools come about? Oh people worked for it...Remember when Linux was seen as a toy even on the server? How times have changed.
Of course some are over a year old, it takes time and costs money to port to Linux. Now if you stopped and thought about it and actually bought a couple of games for Linux from http://www.tuxgames.com you'd see more and more games appear a lot quicker from the bigger companies.
OTOH, have you played Uplink? Just because it didn't end up on Happy Penguins winning list does not mean a thing, its one of the big surprises of 2002; a game by a small development team that is very addictive and was released on Linux at the same time as the Windows version. Its here http://www.introversion.co.uk.
I didn't vote for Quake 3, its really quite sad people put that as the best game, as with all things Linux related my opinion differs. Perhaps next year they can limit the vote to commercial games released during the year. As for the free games, most are still in active development.
The upshot of your argument and others who make it is that we'll never help break break the monopoly on the desktop with that attitude, and yes to begin with we need to help create the correct amount of market share (yes its hard to manage), but do you, when you see a game you'd like to play, e-mail the publishers and developers with a kind e-mail?
Are you one of those people who runs a Linux gaming server? If so, write to the development and ask for a client and actually use that client.
X11, I saw that bitstream gave some fonts away. And HP should be releasing some improvements, one that sticks in my mind is desktop resolution switching.
KDE: Seem to be taking time on 3.1, already hear reports from the devel list that Konq at least is a lot faster (and this before they added fixes and additions from Apple).
Gnome 2: Still waiting for Ximian 2.0, put back to the spring.
Hopefully your experience will be more productive soon, although I am finding it productive now (then again needs vary between people).
Many more desktops run Windows, but servers? In this case it was targeted against a security hole in MS SQL server, and out of all the databases on the Internet they are but a small fraction and yet this caused so much disruption.
Everyone was affected, not just MSFT.
Although this makes me wonder whether some other kind of attack was launched whilst we were staring at this SQL attack.
Don't take this as being anti Microsoft, but you need to realise that the "software ecosystem" has to include serious competitors. Survival in an ecosystem also means diversity!
Sorry, but I see this as a run-around. Companies are there to make workable solutions, not excuses.
Anway, perhaps time is better spent chasing IBM about thsi same issue as they seem to put advertising where their money is. So IBM, when will ThinkPad's be advertised with Linux pre-installed? And when will this be advertised?
Slashdot Mirror
"Not to sound like the blood thirsty American that I am, but what the hell is the point?"
Thats exactly what you sound like...
Yes I like kill'em take over there lands type of games too, but I like this type too..
StarTux
I was getting so worried about the sky falling on our heads! This makes me a feel a lot better!
StarTux
"I use Linux on my desktop. It's great. It's beautiful. But it's *still not ready* for the desktop - as in, it's still not ready to compete with Windows - because it's still more comparable with Windows 3.1 than it is with Windows XP."
:).
Erm, no...KDE 3.x is more comparable to XP. Ever looked at Win 3.1? Doesn't sound like it...Quite a few users booted DOS without that Win shell as it took over head.
"Maybe my viewpoint is narrow. Or maybe I'm as big a power user as you can get without actually *thinking* in C."
Define "power user" as I am sure those folks who use Blender, Houdini etc think themselves as power users.
"Note that I administer my own domain on a server farm of Linux and OpenBSD machines which live in my bedroom."
Pretty common nowadays...At least amongst geeks and even see non techs starting to do this now too.
"Your lack of a realistic viewpoint and your immediate dismissal of my page as FUD is symptomatic of what is wrong with the Linux/OS community, and why I'm starting to believe that Linux will never be able to get its shit together enough to be more of a fringe group like Apple users."
A perspective from someone who runs servers in his bedroom vs others who walk, talk and run large systems with real customers?
"Try using Windows 2000 or XP sometime. Look at it from a user's perspective - you know, the sort of idiot who opens e-mail virii and who makes the *bulk* of the computer-using public. From that perspective, Windows is great. It does everything reasonably well, whether you're a newbie or expert. Linux doesn't do that yet, and therefore isn't as good a desktop solution as Windows."
And they hate it as they still get confused...Then they go to a comp store and come home with a Mac and end up confused with that too...Your point is? I find Windows so lacking in configurability and in so many other ways it just annoys me to no end. And before you say anything, yes I have used Mac Os 8.x to Jaguar, Linux extensively (barring 2.5.x kernel) Windows from Dos 5.x Win 3.1 to Win XP (many of those in professional environments).
"I'm waiting for the day someone can prove me wrong, but until you get some actual real-world experience with what end-users want from their operating systems, you'll still just be a whiny 14-year-old living in Mommy and Daddy's basement."
How can you be proved wrong with an opinion piece? You've settled on what you want and want you can do to make it happen. But remember what might be the right tool for the job today could well be not the right tool for the job tomorrow. You should re-read what you wrote, talking about servers in a bedroom and then saying 14 year old whiny kids with computers in a basement makes on wonder about you and your experiencee
StarTux
So what are you after? A cluster or a single powerful uber machine?
:).
Take some advice...IBM, Sun, HP et al have enterprise departments ready to give you excellent advice and deals based on what you're doing. Of course this should be a different experience than if you are I went to CompUSA and asked for a computer without knowing what you wanted or needed
"Time spent in reconnaisence is time seldom wasted", well worth remembering that British Army proverb...
StarTux
But don't expect 30K a year right away, especially not in this economy.
Get some experience too in any way you can!
StarTux
You're correct...And if you actually look at most jobs out there now most require quite a bit of programming experience even for so caleld Sys Admin jobs.
Maybe later it'll become an issue, but from people I know they look down on cert's and will be looking at experience.
HelpDesk and what else you're doing with computers is going to help more...If you spend time helping out with projects etc this is worth putting on the resume and is worth much more than a paper that gos along with the stack load of others you have.
StarTux
If Apple see enough people using Linux for Quicktime they ought to release software native to the platform if it is showing signs of growth.
This is the trouble with the current corporations, they seem to wait for someone else to create the market and then muscle their way in. The danger here I believe is losing out on the market and have some other company (or group) gain the share. Of course the alternative is to sue potential competitor out of existence...
StarTux
Wouldn't a bunch of journalists needing and wanting fame and fortune trump up a bunch of charges against such an adventure? Whats the safety aspects involved in peroxide manufacture?
StarTux
I see which frequency you're using to get a response :).
Failure of the Movie? Perhaps Wil can mumble something about the lack of leeches...I mean the lack of his part or perhaps the script was flawed in some way?
Maybe Trekkies are marrying non-trekkie's? Who knows...
StarTux
Why do people always assume that after using KDE or Gnome for a awhile they move to something else like WindowMaker etc? Thats just shit.
:). But don't ever fall into the trap that what you're using is the best for everyone.
I know and have worked with enough long term Linux people that their tastes are varied enough that they will choose environments which they like (and all environments have shortcomings, each one tickles you in a different way).
You like an environment you really enhoy, good for you and the same for anyone else that tries new things
StarTux
Yes I really like KDE 3.1, but you can only do so much to an environment to get a different experience.
StarTux
Flamebait? Huh?
Time for a name change, I propose Germany be renamed to Kermany :).
Must send e-mail to the Kerman Kovernment.
StarTux
I miss those random type games terribly and it actually wanted me to buy more with different types of varience (how different can it really be each time). Graphics are constantly improving for one, another would be constant improvements in hardware as well as software techniques.
How different can it possibly be each time? I really think creating a whole 100% world that has graphics that exceeds what they use in the movies is still way in the future, even then its still going to need and could do with improvement or additions beyond AI.
StarTux
Despite what the average Troll on either side says, both do complement each other well. And when you mention Open Source to an Apple developer they light up, they truly do seem very pleased about having Linux/Open Source thriving.
But I am disappointed that Quicktime hasn't been released to Linux as a native app and iTunes still doesn't encode in Ogg yet.
StarTux
KDE 3.1 was a good step in this direction imho.
Personnally I don't want OS X Aqua on Linux, I'd rather have a more unique experience.
I can see KDE and Apple both dropping good things that each other offers if it doesn't quite fit into what they aim for.
StarTux
"The fact is, new games only come out for Windows."
The fact is you are wrong, *most* top titles do come out for Windows as that is where the monopoly is. Uplink, as I mentioned in another thread came out for both Windows and Linux as did Terminus. Others have only been a week or two behind, excluding Bioware's NWN, which we're still waiting on for the client.
"Personally I'm like most people, my windows box (and PS2) is for games and my Linux box is my file server, shell box for programming, and all around general purpose workhorse."
Like most people who don't think about their actions...
"The Windows box is just a desktop for browsing IE only sites and a game machine. "
Then get Winex and Crossover Office at least, you can use IE within wine and don't have to worry about the Windows.
Support Linux or Mac and help bring diversity back to the computing platform, its much better for the computing ecosystem. But then you'd rather sit there and talk about right tools for the right job, how on Earth did the tools come about? Oh people worked for it...Remember when Linux was seen as a toy even on the server? How times have changed.
StarTux
And your point is?
Of course some are over a year old, it takes time and costs money to port to Linux. Now if you stopped and thought about it and actually bought a couple of games for Linux from http://www.tuxgames.com you'd see more and more games appear a lot quicker from the bigger companies.
OTOH, have you played Uplink? Just because it didn't end up on Happy Penguins winning list does not mean a thing, its one of the big surprises of 2002; a game by a small development team that is very addictive and was released on Linux at the same time as the Windows version. Its here http://www.introversion.co.uk.
I didn't vote for Quake 3, its really quite sad people put that as the best game, as with all things Linux related my opinion differs. Perhaps next year they can limit the vote to commercial games released during the year. As for the free games, most are still in active development.
The upshot of your argument and others who make it is that we'll never help break break the monopoly on the desktop with that attitude, and yes to begin with we need to help create the correct amount of market share (yes its hard to manage), but do you, when you see a game you'd like to play, e-mail the publishers and developers with a kind e-mail?
Are you one of those people who runs a Linux gaming server? If so, write to the development and ask for a client and actually use that client.
StarTux
X11, I saw that bitstream gave some fonts away. And HP should be releasing some improvements, one that sticks in my mind is desktop resolution switching.
KDE: Seem to be taking time on 3.1, already hear reports from the devel list that Konq at least is a lot faster (and this before they added fixes and additions from Apple).
Gnome 2: Still waiting for Ximian 2.0, put back to the spring.
Hopefully your experience will be more productive soon, although I am finding it productive now (then again needs vary between people).
StarTux
Many more desktops run Windows, but servers? In this case it was targeted against a security hole in MS SQL server, and out of all the databases on the Internet they are but a small fraction and yet this caused so much disruption.
Everyone was affected, not just MSFT.
Although this makes me wonder whether some other kind of attack was launched whilst we were staring at this SQL attack.
StarTux
Next job?
Apple Retail Store, pick up a nice new iBook or PowerMac.
Or Partition drive and start installing Linux.
StarTux
LOL. Got insightful, which it was, but it was also funny!
StarTux
One of two things happen now:
Admin gets paid a wage, no overtime.
Admin gets paid hourly rate and is thankful for the extra cash.
StarTux
Don't take this as being anti Microsoft, but you need to realise that the "software ecosystem" has to include serious competitors. Survival in an ecosystem also means diversity!
Sorry, but I see this as a run-around. Companies are there to make workable solutions, not excuses.
Anway, perhaps time is better spent chasing IBM about thsi same issue as they seem to put advertising where their money is. So IBM, when will ThinkPad's be advertised with Linux pre-installed? And when will this be advertised?
StarTux