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A Preview of Ximian's Gnome 2.0 Desktop
TweetZilla writes "Dennis Powell has a good preview of Ximian's newest desktop. But does anybody care at this point? How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to Evolution?"
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... would you submit a story with "Who really gives a flying fuck?" in the summary?
I'd totally forgotten that they rebranded Gnome. I tried it when it first came out, but it didn't really offer anything that the 'normal' Gnome didn't do just as well (which isn't saying much.)
How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to Evolution?
Ximian's DESKTOP -> WM
Evolution -> Mail Client
What kind of comparison is this? And as a matter of fact, I use both...
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
How many people still use Ximian's desktop?
A lot of Solaris users (including myself) that don't want to spend days downloading and compiling dependencies for Gnome.
_______
2B1ASK1
No screenshots.
Stop reading.
I like Ximian, and I like KDE. I find it easier to install Ximian, so I tend to use it. I don't want to go messing with all the RPM dependencies to get KDE going on my RedHat system. Ximian does it for my in a GUI wizard. Call me an idiot if you want.
I use evolution unless you have any better ideas.
David M. Dinner (ddinner@obtix.net)
The article doesn't describe anything other than how excited this guy was about the features he saw, which he really didn't go into, and there are no screenshots.
my desktop environment can beat up your desktop environment...
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
It's already obsolete if they're using GNOME 2.0 instead of 2.2. I'm on 2.2 RC1 right now, and it's much nicer than GNOME 2.0 was...
"I sat down to write with the intent of saying that I think Ximian Desktop 2.0 is a desktop on which absolutely anyone would be comfortable working. It is the most sophisticated desktop I've seen for Linux or any current operating system."
A lot of "the best" technology flops in the marketplace (oh my poor betamax...). Sadly, Ximian might just join them.
Are you implying that we should all surrender since Germany uses KDE (didn't we try that before)? Sorry. I prefer Gnome. Can I keep using it or do I have to roll over France-style now?
I like GNOME well enough, but I get confused by their rapidly changing terminology. For example, this writeup makes it sound like Evolution and Ximian are two competing "desktops," but I thought Ximian was a company and Evolution was a file manager.
Actually, I'm not even sure what a "desktop" is. I used to think it was anything behind the application windows, but now I'm wondering...does it have to have icons on it? Does Blackbox have a desktop?
Gnome has been lost for nearly an Age, and now I fear that it is emerging again as a force of great strength.
Boromir, son of Faramir, King of Gondor and Minas Tirith
" Ximian does it for my in a GUI wizard. Call me an idiot if you want."
OK, you're an idiot. Although I don't know why you'd want to be called one?
Thank gopod that they didn't include and screenshots of the new desktop. That could have overwhelmed my fragile sensibilities.
I think he was asking how many people use the Ximian Desktop environment vs how many people use the (also Ximian) PIM. I suspect that there are only a small percentage of Evolution users who also use the Ximian Desktop Environment.
You never know...
Follow "suite," eh? For a troll who purports himself to be so very intelligent, I'm wondering where you came up with the interesting idea of entire populations following behind a wandering hotel room. And it's TCO by the way, not TCEO.
Not that I expect any response from this, most of you masturbatory juveniles usually ignore the larger part of the negative response you get.
They both have an "X" in them!
"I use evolution unless you have any better ideas."
Creationism works out pretty well too. YMMV of course.
Ximian desktop EVERYONE using gnome today uses it. It's rolled into the last gnome release...
and Evolution is a Email/groupware client.
Mike, please learn about stuff before you comment on it.
Sheesh.
Will Ximian give me back my view-ports and edge-flipping? Gnome2/metacity/sawfish2 in RedHat 8.0 totally pissed me off with their lack, and opposed stance to such features. Don't they realize how addictive those things are? It's like UI heroine, and I'm jonesing! If Ximian implemented those features along with some other standard missing preferences like user defined key-bindings (right now you have to use gconf-editor to set them), I think a large portion of Gnome users would switch. Go Ximian.
Oh, and on an aside note, is Michael on crack? Evolution vs. Desktop?!? It must be the lack of viewports that's fucking him up.
Do you dispute the basic claim that KDE, like Java and BSD, have lost?
Personally I don't care for KDE, it is OK but I think GNOME has more to offer in the long run. GNOME is behind is many "visible" features, but I think GNOME is better development environment.
Arguing over a WM. Christ, I use "mail" for mail, a frigging text file for contact, and scripting for everything else.
Windows, including the *nix Windows wannabe's, are for pussies.
For heaven's sake, don't mention the war!
The article stated that they don't have yet a release date, but they're in testing. I shall start salavating now.
I feel all hyped up, like when Linux 2.4 was announced. Oh-Yeah.
--------
Free your mind.
Yes I really like KDE 3.1, but you can only do so much to an environment to get a different experience.
StarTux
Ximian Gnome worked passably on my Red Hat 6.2 system, but when RH 7.0 came out, and I tried to upgrade, it completely fucked up my system. I got all kinds of dire warning messages about 3rd party software and dependency errors, etc. and even after going in and MANUALLY deleting all that shit, it still complained as I upgraded to 7.1. So when RH 8 came out I finally just gave up and formatted the damn thing and started all over from jump street with a stock RH install. The older version of Ximian desktop sucked rocks. I hope the new version is less invasive or more version-friendly to the host O/S than the old one was. I personally ain't gonna find out after getting burned so badly the 1st time around.
Arrrgh.
If you run debian, for god sake dont install Ximian GNOME. I installed Ximian 1.4 and it broke my debian installation horribly.
What I remember of Ximian Desktop is that it behaved like a Windows Service Pack: install it once and you'll never be able to get rid of it, except by reformatting your HD. I did like RedCarpet a lot, but that was all before I started using Debian and apt-get. I still use Evolution, though, and looking forward to the GTK2 release.
Well, considering that Ximian is the only easily installable version of the GNOME desktop (unless you stick with what comes default with your distro), I would say probably quite a few. And Evolution is a mail client, so that comparison doesn't make much sense.
I've actually been waiting quite a while for this.
> a number of very nice looking typefaces that exactly coincide with the ones Microsoft ships;
> as a result, their browser renders pages "best viewed in Internet Explorer," as the incompaibility
> is euphemistically called, exactly as if in Internet Explorer.
Erm, fonts != web rendering technology. If it's broke in Gecko it's broke in Gecko, and having the right fonts won't make any difference. Or does he mean, "best viewed in Windows"?
What's euphemistic about it? And why does the author call it an "incompatibility" when he means a "recommendation"? Euphemism, n.: "an inoffensive expression that is substituted for one that is considered offensive".
As another user points out, the article offers so salient points regarding any actual new features or improvements, just a general mish-mash. Then to round off it sounds off on a whole load of random mismatched arguements about how free software's wonderful. We've heard it all a thousand times before.
I get so annoyed by people writing pretentious twaddle using words they don't understand because they think it looks impressive, while simultaneously making grammatical, spelling and typographical errors all over the shop. You ain't fooling no one...
Next please.
You're wrong, The KDE vs. Gnome situation has produced so many positive results and ideas for both camps, that we have all won.
KDE was more "windows-esque" to me, and while I know that's a bad thing for a bunch of people, for me, it helps with the learning curve being greatly reduced for my everyday tasks.
And speaking of everyday tasks, I use evolution exclusively for personal email now (work=Lotus Notes), and it was a great big help in my decision to chunk M$.
I pulled a jack move to cop this sig
I used Ximian Desktop right up to the day I installed Red Hat 8.0. Which Ximian doesn't support yet. As soon as XD supports RH8, I'm using it again.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
And Windows won. Get over it.
It is about choice. It has always been about choice, and will always be about choice.
KDE hasn't won anything. That is like the little kid that takes of running. He gets to the end of the block and starts shouting "I WON, I WON" and no one else knew he was racing them.
I use linux, bsd, gnome, and kde. Depends on what I feel like. Choice.
If I wanted to follow suit with a winning technology that has the most support globally, I would stick with windows.
Gnome runs decent enough...
.gnome directory in their /home/*user directory and on the next logon everything is rebuilt back to the origional default settings...
my one peeve is editing & customizing the menu on the panel, that blasted menu editor must be run as root or su. why dont the Gnome ximian people make it so the menu can be edited by a normal user and so it does not have any system wide effects and each profile can have their own custom menu, there are advantages to this, like if a user trashes their menu or profile all one would have to do is empty the contents of the
I am a Gnome user and I do like Ximian Gnome but I hate waiting so long between releases. They seem to give it all a nice polish and some value added features but I'm usually several verions ahead of them by the time they release. So I would essentially be downgrading my desktop to use Ximian. I guess there just isn't a Ximian version for impatient people like me.
You see when I go to a link that's going to tell me about some booth at a linux I want some graphical content.
Anonymous Cowards - Oh God, How I hate you
A screenshot would most definately say more than those 1843 words.
When I first started using linux GUI's, Ximian's Gnome desktop was one of the early one's I ran through and tried.
Even now, it's still rather impressive: nice themes, runs fairly quick/smooth, interesting suite of applications. Changing settings was also quite easy.
I've since tried running RedHat 8.0's packaged Gnome, and was considerable less impressed. The thing runs like a wounded Yak, and it's not nearly as pretty as Ximian.
Oh, and as a really nice point for GUI newbies... installing Ximian Gnome was "extremely" painless on RedHat, using a webpage piped through a shell: (substitute "links" for "lynx' as needed):
lynx -source http://go-gnome.com/ | sh
I do and others like me who use non-Linux X servers like Solaris. I use Ximian Desktop because Evolution isn't well suited for a Ultra Sparc IIi 400 mhz with 128 mb of RAM, whereas the Ximian desktop is.
Think before you spout.
Clinton made me a Republican. Bush made me a Libertarian. Trump is making me question reality.
Um...How about Sun? Remember them?
Solaris is going to have Gnome 2.0 as the default desktop with Solaris.
KDE might run away with the Linux market, but there's a lot more out there than just Linux, and Gnome is already set in stone for some of them.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Don't use a desktop!
John Kerry is a Joke!
Can anyone tell me if they've fixed the file chooser dialog? If they haven't, they have 2 options...
(1) Fix the file chooser dialog. It's horrible. I've used DOS applications from the 80s which had better faux file chooser dialogs. QT 1.x had a better file chooser box.
(2) Give up. They haven't gotten it fixed yet, when will they.
Seriously, it's horrible. I've never had to interact with such a horribly designed file chooser box as much as I do because I use evolution. I love how when you change directories; the filename of whatever you're trying to save disappears. Great feature guys.
Seriously. Give me something with a "up a level button". And put the directories and files in one window, with "icons" so I can tell the difference between the two.
If there was a race, then Windows won. Why is it all about winning and losing. It is about choice. Freedom to choose, or doesn't anyone get it. It isn't a troll, it is a wakeup call. How can you call coming in a distant, questionable second, winning. The XP desktop is really sweet, if you like that sort of thing, and is more widely used. What race was won? The race for second? Discuss. I challenge a flippant post, and I get modded as a troll.
With the non-tradition use of the GPL in the QT library, it is certainly free as in beer, meaning you can use it without cost....
However, you have to pay for a developers license to have any freedom as to how your code will be distributed. But even then, you can't allow other people who receive the code to have similar freedom unless they too pay for a developer's license.
But because it is GPL, it is certainly free to have certain personal freedoms... but other personal freedoms cost money.
So I guess it is free like a U.S. citizen.
The bottom line though is that developing QT apps for KDE has far more restrictions than developing for Win32.
Evolution 1.2 was a nightmare,
not being able to access setup details because for a mail account because that mail account was 'busy' ahhhh...... And don't even bother editing the XML files.
1.2 was better but still a right pain, things went funny all the time, I never found out how to prevent line truncation and well, and it doesn't work on the 2.5 kernel..
Anyhow I though I'd give kmail another go, the last time I used it was more than a year ago and it qas quite poor.
kmail is great, there are a couple of quirks, but it's quick and easy to use/configure.
I never used the desktop and I don't intend to use evolution again, unless it get a re-write.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
"One of the strengths and simultaneously one of the weaknesses of free software has been that developers develop what they want to develop, not necessarily things that users want. It is possible, and it is often the case, that developers get great pleasure from producing a popular application or feature, and so are motivated largely by that as a goal. But the market gets distorted a little by that slight disconnect between user desires and developer production, even as it has been distorted (to a greater extent) on the non-free software side by Microsoft's monopoly."
I wouldn't say this is consistantly true. Infact I would say it's primarily true with free software for the simple reason that no one wanted it in the first place. Most of the time the developer made it because they wanted to.
With purchased software there was a need before the developer started. And when the developer is being payed, they tend to listen to the customer a bit more. See Adobe for an example.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
It's either someone who is a rabid GNOME2 user, or a KDE user who has some childish bone to pick with Ximian for some reason. Nevermind all the work from Ximian that can be found at gnome.org. What a loser. I'm using KDE 3.1 myself, but kudos to Ximian for their pending release.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
Go to sawfish wiki, interesting things, like how to emulate it with workspaces, how to get it working as always (so you can have worksaces AND viewports, and sending to hell those who say you are mad for using that or for viewport), how to get a nice pager for sawfish and many more.
Originally I'd just been trying to find a build of Evolution that supported SSL and TLS (ATT email requires encrypted links; a good idea for email security.) The only way I could resolve the dependencies was to refresh the whole environment via Ximian's RedCarpet installer. As Red Carpet also had the option of pulling in SuSE updates, it's become the central update engine for my SuSE development box.
I spent many years as a KDE fan, and still like the product a lot, but Gnome has stabilized nicely and with a bit of work you can make the UI more familiar than the default installation is. If you're developing pure (L)GPL, then KDE is the nicer dev kit. If you need to produce products that could be enhanced by your clients, then there are few options other than GTK+mm which don't cost thousands of dollars to support WinXX and Linux clients.
Trolltech has to be paid up-front to do non-GPL development with KDE, which I can't afford. I have no issue with rolling license costs in to any commercial sales in the future, but I can't buy licenses for initial prototyping because it's all spec work -- I have no guarantees I'll ever have a paying client for the work. (Don't get me wrong, Trolltech's licensing fees are very reasonable, I just don't have the cash to spare right now.)
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
that some people consider Dennis Powell a credible journalist. The guy has had his head up his ass his whole life.
And what's with the screenshot, too? Here it's about GNOME and he shows us an ancient Windows shell running on an ancient system with an ancient KDE.
Go away Dennis!
Now there's an addiction I can get behind! I'd like two please: a blonde and a redhead.
OK, you're an idiot. Although I don't know why you'd want to be called one?
Why? Easy! He is an idiot.
Or maybe he wanted to bother easily irritated fucks like yourself.
I prefer olvwm, but when I use Gnome I use Ximian. It Just Works(tm).
you should read everything on the internet as if it had "but I'm probably talking out of my ass" appended to it.
It's not like Ximian's desktop is *bad*. It's certainly a nicely polished interface for those of us who like to have a constant and stable desktop, with simple ways to change things we'd like.
Ximian certainly offers that, but IMHO, Gnome2's desktop framework offers this as well. Ximian though, in contrast to just Gnome2, is a bit easier for most Windows converts than just plain Gnome/Gnome2. Also, Ximian's desktop is rather inclusive of some pretty "user-friendly" tools.
I think KDE and Ximian's Gnome2 are going to be the usual first-used desktops by most converts. This is important for those who care about making Linux a more "popular" desktop for the general populous. We should always try to encourage this type of activity, because it inspires choice.
After a convert learns about all the features, and shortcomings of their "starter" environment, they will inevitably change something, or just find something they like more.
Without a "starter" type desktop though, they wouldn't be as encouraged to find something they like more, thus stifling the overall acceptance of Linux as a general purpose desktop.
We should always try to change the negative to be positive, if it is possible. A good Linux desktop, which wins converts from Windows, will increase the popularity of Linux, thus increasing the acceptance of OpenSource software, thus increasing how much people rely on OSS, and then people will care more about it than they previously had. At least a little.
It's a chain of events that will lead more use of OSS software in general, and something we should continue to help the growth of. Not say "why the hell would anyone use that shit? I use WindowMaker and it's just fine!". Maybe once those converts are on Linux for a while, they may agree. Give'm the opportunity.
--SuperBug
Not to defend the idiocy of comparing the Desktop (Ximian) to the Mail Client (Evolution), I feel that it was made due to a situation that was present about a year ago. Before redhat 7.3, you could not get Ximian Evolution without having Ximian's gnome rpms or without compiling from source. The former screwed up much of the automatic update mechanisms of certain distros and the latter delved the user into dependency hell, usually requiring a .01 increase in a library version number. When distros started to include Evolution as a standalone, many users just ditched Ximian entirely, as for many, Evolution was the *only* reason to go with them. Just a thought...
There are two main reasons I'm holding off on RH8:
a) No Ximian available
b) The GNOME it comes with doesn't do viewports. I can't live without my 3x2 workspace. Keyboard shortcuts are no replacement for moving the mouse to the edge of the screen to go to the next one. It just feels more natural.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Sounds like you could benefit from Windows 2000, friend. I'll just bet you like that GUI wizard, and aren't you lucky I've got a helluva deal for you!
Are you Sick of dependencies?
Perhaps you Don't have all weekend to compile?
Are Hardware requirements for the latest KDE/GNOME just a little stiff??
Try Win2K! The Easy Way®
just like the humble blood clot... turboporsche@telus.net
I think stories like this support the proposition that Redhat is doing everything they can to slow the acceptance of KDE. I hesitate to compare RH to Microsoft, because -- really -- it isn't fair to compare RH's petty snipes to Microsoft's heavy-handed monopolistic behaviors; however, this sort of thing is typical of MS behavior. Make the competing software more difficult to use or install than the one you support, and you win mindshare by default.
What would stop a company from going to Best Buy and buying Microsoft Office (or any of their products)? It isn't illegal.
Then please, by all means, do leave. You will hardly be missed by anyone.
click here to see a Ximian Gnome 2 preview
as a Kde 3.1 user myself, i think it doesnt quite compare..
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
No, those are two completely different things!
Workspaces are totally independent desktops. If you slide something off the edge of one, it just vanishes. In order to flip between them, currently you have to drag the mouse down to the little toolbar applet and click on a different one. Pain!!
Viewports are like a window on a single, much larger desktop. You can drag a application off the edge of one viewport and onto an adjoining one, which is why you have edge-flipping. It is also possible to open a window much larger than the physical display and scan around it.
Personally, I use viewports and edge flipping all the time!
The lack of viewports in RH 8.0 is the single greatest reason why I haven't switched yet.
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Oh wait, wrong joke...
Free Java games for your phone: Tontie, Sokoban
God.. people will always bring in some stupid ass comment about cowtowing to the ..germans....japanese,etc. Well, dude the war's been over for over 50 years! It's a global economy now, and I have no problem buying german cars, japanese electronics, etc cause they are often BETTER!
If we want to force other countries to buy our products, lets not be hypocrites in buying there's.
I used Ximian's desktop and evolution every day. Ximian's Gnome is easy to configure and update which makes it nice for both newbies (which I was when I started...it was Helix something then) and busy people (which I am now).
If I'm going to play with a system I'll install the latest and greatest, if I want the computer for actual work I'll go with Ximian's.
Sig is on vacation
How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to Evolution?
Ask corporations which use Linux on the desktop and want some support :-) My company is doing a roll out of Linux based workstations (actually thinclients) to a health related organisation, and if budget would be higher it'd be nice to have more software for which you pay but get support when some problems occur...
I really hate Gnome 2.0 and it's making me switch to KDE, and MWM. But I've always used Ximian over Red Hat's Standard distro. They port to all the OS's I use at home and work, and Red Carpet is really nice. As soon as it's out, I will install it. Ximian is the only reason I will give Gnome 2.0 another chance, nothing more.
Approximately 7 out of 35 employees .. with the largest opting for default redhat kde , and the rest being 'cult of the box that is black (or flux or open)' apolytes.
Plus, there was talk of rolling out redcarpet+ximian with our system migration projects.
Yeah, I was pretty much thinking the same thing. That story submission is one of the most impressive ways I've ever seen for someone to look like a complete idiot in front of hundreds of thousands of members of the tech community.
May we never see th
Oh, by the way, what IS Ximian, really? Isn't it just a mod of Gnome?
Ximian is a company that does a couple of projects -- Mono, Evolution. They also put out a "distribution" of GNOME, much like RH and Mandrake put out distributions of Linux. If you like Ximian's desktop more than the one that comes with, say, Red Hat, you can use it instead.
This may seem a little odd to some people, but GNOME is a somewhat larger, looser, more distributed collection of projects than KDE or GNUStep, and it's actually quite convenient if you want to use GNOME.
Please, someone, let KDE 4.0 and Gnome 3.0 be the same.
I doubt it'll happen. Too many differences in what the two projects are trying to accomplish. KDE people are trying to essentially produce a clone of what MS has done, and directly compete with them for Windows users. Smaller, programs more tied to each other, less independence for individual projects. GNOME people are trying to take an umbrella of projects and "condense" them into a desktop environment. Larger, more modular, programs more independent and simply packaged together. Rather like a Linux distro, come to think of it.
May we never see th
Are you Sick of dependencies?
Do you like downloading (or buying, if you want to be legal) *one* giant package? (As opposed to apt-get install [name of what you want] and letting the dependencies just flow down the pipe).
Perhaps you Don't have all weekend to compile?
And you want to use the binary packages that almost all Linux distros provide?
Are Hardware requirements for the latest KDE/GNOME just a little stiff??
Try comparing the latest KDE/GNOME to the latest Windows -- XP.
May we never see th
Edge-flipping and viewports are both in GNOME 2. Annoyingly enough, the GNOME people took a page from the KDE people and decided that no one would *ever* want one big desktop, so their default now sucks. It's quite easy to get things back, though.
;; set up viewports
I use sawfish. Add the following to ~/.sawfishrc:
(setq customize-command-classes '(default viewport))
(setq viewport-dimensions '(3 . 4))
(or whatever size you want -- I like 3 across, 4 high.
For edge flipping, be sure you've turned it on in the sawfish config dialog.
Finally, a bunch of the kickass features in GNOME 2 are off by default to accomodate less-than-technically-ept Windows users. You probably want them on too.
Add the following to ~/.gtkrc-2.0:
gtk-can-change-accels = 1
gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"
This will give you emacs style keys back again. Once more, ctrl-a will go to the beginning of the line, ctrl-k will kill, etc. It will also let you rebind menu items by simply hovering the mouse pointer over the item so that it's selected and then hitting the desired key combination.
And I agree about the Evolution/Desktop thing...how did this ever get on Slashdot?
May we never see th
Before I got Redhat 7.3 I was compiling GNOME myself which was interesting and educational at the start but got boring after a while and was certainly time consuming. It's certainly true that source based distribution mechanisms have improved a great deal since those days but I still think I'd be loath to give up the ease and speed of Red Carpet. I'm impressed by a lot of the software the GNOME project and cousins have produced and seeing as I don't contribute in any practical sense I'm more than happy to throw Ximian some bucks for Red Carpet Express and maybe some to the GNOME foundation this year too.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
I noticed this guy put the Ximian and KDE as separate posts. Did you not think that we could invade this flimsy partition and engage in open warfare. ;@)
Only joking not a flame
Why do people always assume that after using KDE or Gnome for a awhile they move to something else like WindowMaker etc? Thats just shit.
:). But don't ever fall into the trap that what you're using is the best for everyone.
I know and have worked with enough long term Linux people that their tastes are varied enough that they will choose environments which they like (and all environments have shortcomings, each one tickles you in a different way).
You like an environment you really enhoy, good for you and the same for anyone else that tries new things
StarTux
Why do you need separate programs? I use XEmacs for windowing, emailing, and *even* general text editing, not to mention minesweeper :-)
I have no problems, or cares, about Ximian 2, I am a happy and contented KDE/Suse user and will stay that way.
In the past I have used Ximian or Redhat/Debian, but as time moved on Ximian didn't. KDE moved from 1->2->3->3.1 as Ximian has struggled to release its next desktop.
As I tried new Linux distros, and the 2.4 kernel came out the beautiful Ximian Desktop started to look old, and suffered from virtual memory problems that didin't seem to affect KDE. I have been using KDE now for most of the past 2 years, and couldn't dream of turning the clock back to Ximian.
If anyone wants to use Ximian they can, and are welcome to, but I fear that Ximian are struggling to produce this desktop. It is a long time coming, and possibly they are spread too thin with their work on GNOME, Evolution and MONO. It is a small commercial company and perhaps they should concentrate on commercial Linux work and drop their desktop.
Finally, the beauty of Linux is that we, the end user, can run the system we want, different distros, kernels, window mangers. The Ximian Desktop 2 will arrive, but it's chances of success against KDE/Bluecurve/GNOME is questionable.
If Ximian can provide something usable I'll consider putting Redhat 8.0 back on my desktop system. Otherwise its time to move on.
I didn't endure 10 years of slow painful progress in the linux desktop to take a 5 year leap backwards with Redhat's latest sorry offering.
Linux users don't want a dumbed down desktop where everything is twice as big, runs twice as slow, and has half as many configuration options.
And where its three times as difficult to customize it to the way *you* want it to be.
If I wanted that I'd buy a Mac.
Ximian, please help us.
I don't use Ximian GNOME. I use Debian, and I just go ahead and use the Debian packages for GNOME.
Which has been an adventure, lately. Usually the "unstable" branch of Debian is very stable, but lately it's been living up to its name. For a while, Nautilus was dead in the water!
But on the other hand, it works now and I love it. GNOME 2.2 is really adding some nice little bits of polish. I showed my wife the "hide/show desktop" button, and she started using it right away. (Note: it doesn't seem to work with Sawfish right now, but it works great with Metacity.) I can never get my wife to use more than one desktop workspace, but she did like hiding and showing all the windows.
For the most part, I've been enjoying the adventure. It's interesting to see new things appearing in the Debian packages, and to keep track of the major threads on the debian-gtk-gnome developers mailing list.
If you just want a GNOME desktop that works, grab Ximian when they offer it. (Or install Debian unstable right now, and only update your packages when someone tells you it is safe!)
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
While my spelling will be rather poor, I ask . . .
Why can't a desktop look, well, different? Why can't there be a desktop for graphic designers that lkek to shove stuff all over the place but still be in order? Why can't . . . wait, everyone else thrive on order so the desktops of today suffice.
What I want is a a mac os x environment with 2 docks. The normoarl dock, and a second to the right (for those frelancers without second moniters) to shove shit into. Is this so hard to ask for? I want a literal DESKTOP!
And screw you, I am trying to figure out how to do it so don;t flame me for whining,
W
Dependencies are a thing of the past, friend, with the new InstallShield technology only for Win32!!!
:)
No longer will you have multiple versions of your favourite libraries cluttering up your drive - with InstallShield's new "glibc-free" features, you can say "No Way!" to extra crap.
"Oh sure," you say, "that sounds great JW Troll, but the thing is - I kinda like typing commands into my CLI. Plus it makes me look 1337 in front of my script kiddie friends!"
Well, worry no longer - InstallShield comes with command-line options too!
Want a giant package? Welcome to Windoze
Do you Think it's about time for your programs to stop crashing your X-Windows server?
Well have we got a treat for you, dear sir! With Windows XP's patented "Xfree-free" advantages, you get a responsive GUI (thanks to "multi-threading" technology - another excellent innovation still misunderstood by Xfree developers) and RDP (much faster across the wire) plus, best of all, there's NO X server to crash! No kicker app to crash, NO Konqueror to mysteriously vanish while taking down Xfree - in fact, no ANYthing that you've come to know and loathe about the Linux platform. Welcome to Win32, baby!
just like the humble blood clot... turboporsche@telus.net
No diff, b/c this works in CVS, debian, etc builds...
// Mongoose: This is a hack and it's not ideal, however it took me several _minutes_ to make this! // I might make a real patch later, but for now here you go and I'll make it shift window position if asked // Quick and dirty edge flipping hack, // looks for mouse cursor touching edge during window drag
// turnOnTheEvil
// Hack to allow 'ringed' edge flipping needs to use index
// Please remember metacity is a pretty poor code base w/o any documentation I could see and this is the quickest entry to produce this // IMHO havoc should take the carrot out of his ass and add features and fixes instead of bitching
In the file src/window.c
In the function constrain_position(...)
In the else {} block after the if else (window->maximized) {} block
After the function call:
meta_window_get_work_area (window, FALSE, &work_area);
Add this code:
#define EDGE_FLIPPING_HACK
#ifdef EDGE_FLIPPING_HACK
if (1)
{
static int transition = 0;
int threshold = (window->rect.width/2);
int left = 0;
if (transition)
{
if (!(x work_area.x + work_area.width - (threshold + 16)))
transition = 0;
}
else if (x work_area.x + work_area.width - threshold)
{
MetaWorkspace *workspace;
transition = 1;
workspace = window->screen->active_workspace;
if (workspace)
{
int index = meta_workspace_index(workspace);
if (x work_area.x - threshold - 40)
{
++index;
left = 1;
workspace = meta_workspace_get_neighbor(workspace, META_MOTION_LEFT);
}
else
{
--index;
if (index 0)index = 3;
workspace = meta_workspace_get_neighbor(workspace, META_MOTION_RIGHT);
}
}
if (workspace)
{
meta_window_change_workspace(window, workspace);
meta_workspace_activate(workspace);
}
}
}
#endif
No longer will you have multiple versions of your favourite libraries cluttering up your drive - with InstallShield's new "glibc-free" features, you can say "No Way!" to extra crap.
Nah, InstallShield's "elimination of dependencies" is achived precisely by having duplicate copies of libraries lying around on your drive.
"Oh sure," you say, "that sounds great JW Troll, but the thing is - I kinda like typing commands into my CLI. Plus it makes me look 1337 in front of my script kiddie friends!"
Well, worry no longer - InstallShield comes with command-line options too!
But not nearly as many -- you need a *lot* to look properly elite.
Do you Think it's about time for your programs to stop crashing your X-Windows server?
And instead leave the GUI in a borked-up state from a Direct3d program dying or simply Explorer dying.
May we never see th
I owe ye a drink ;)
However - one quick note - D3d programs all die just fine, from my experience with Win2K. Wrong driver, or game locks up? Windows button, task manager, kill process. Explorer automatically restarts when it dies, and there's only a couple seconds lost.. plus that only seems to happen once every three months or so.
So what'll it be, amigo? Guinness? We don't serve Budweiser here.
just like the humble blood clot... turboporsche@telus.net
Alert! Alert! You're getting dangerously close to running into Godwin's law! Alert!
I will never, ever be able to use Linux for my grandmother, or if I'm in a hurry.
Metacity now is where Windows 1.0 was in terms of usability. Thanks, but no thanks.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Agreed. For all the power Solaris has, CDE matches it with ugliness, and then some. Sun is supposed to put CDE out of its misery in favor of Ximian Gnome. Ximian Gnome may take on another name and dedicated development team as some point but it won't go away. Sun needs it not only for Solaris but it will need it for its future Linux workstations.
I'm also inclined to think the dependancies 'hell' one gets with linux that doesnt seem as big a problem has something to do with the dll system and microsoft being *reasonably* carefull to keep interfaces backwardly polymorphic. This is possibly one of the verry few advantages of microsofts approach.
It's not as bad as it used to be imho, particularly with apt on the rise (as a debian user I've almost forgotten the nightmare that was rpm hell)
But oh boy on my windoze box I've had way more problems than with my x-server. The linux box just sorta.... works.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
If you refer to the parent post complaining about how difficult is to update KDE wrt to Ximian Desktop, this is because the poster doesn't know about up2date (which, IIRC, is only offered to paying customers) or he does not like it. While Ximian (NOT RH, but Ximian) offers with their version of Gnome an installation GUI, which is definitively better that 'rpm -i'.
Ciao
----
FB
Call me an idiot if you want.
I was your idea, not mine.
IDIOT!!
"Some might scoff at this possibility, but from what I've seen of KDE and GNOME 2.2, the Linux desktop if [sic] finally equaling some of the highest quality features in any desktop"
Why are we always trying to "equal" the "quality features"
of other desktops.... we (the open source community) are smart and creative, right? When will we start innovating? When will the day come when Microsoft and Apple start equalling our features? (I guess tabs from Opera is a start, but...) To hell with "oh it's more stable and it's free", we need "damn, that new sprocket they have in Linux kicks ass!". Anyway, just a thought.
*slinks back to the peanut gallery*
This is an especially good time for you vacationers who plan to fly, because
the Reagan administration, as part of the same policy under which it
recently sold Yellowstone National Park to Wayne Newton, has "deregulated"
the airline industry. What this means for you, the consumer, is that the
airlines are no longer required to follow any rules whatsoever. They can
show snuff movies. They can charge for oxygen. They can hire pilots right
out of Vending Machine Refill Person School. They can conserve fuel by
ejecting husky passengers over water. They can ram competing planes in
mid-air. These innovations have resulted in tremendous cost savings which
have been passed along to you, the consumer, in the form of flights with
amazingly low fares, such as $29. Of course, certain restrictions do apply,
the main one being that all these flights take you to Newark, and you must
pay thousands of dollars if you want to fly back out.
-- Dave Barry, "Iowa -- Land of Secure Vacations"
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...