Let me start this off with saying I have been buying mail order computer for close to 20 years and have never been a big Dell fan. I disagree with the idea that they are in trouble, Dell has almost trained the guy on the street to pick up the phone and order a Dell when he is shopping for a computer. The price/performance numbers are just too nice, at work we recently purchased a handful of low end notebooks for a our salesmen (Inspiron B120/B130 Celeron 1400, 60 gig HD, 512 Meg Ram, DVD/CDRW drives, etc) complete overkill for looking at PDF's and inventory levels, we paid under $450 each delivered. These same units are now selling on Dell's outlet page "previously new" not refurb for $409 before discounts. Last summer during their big back to school discount promo I recomended a basic Dell desktop to my parents to replace their old P3 system, it was under $400 complete with flat panel display, etc. Last week I bought from Dell for the 1st time, a mid level notebook for my son to take to school when he moves off next month. It was a refurb off Dell's outlet page, and not the cheapest there, still for $700 it has a Pentium M 1700 mhz, a gig of ram, 60 gig HD, wireless, ATI X300 128 meg video, wireless, etc. Go find anything that comparable with that price that comes with any kind of warranty (the various loading dock specials don't count).
When was the last time you built a machine from parts, it is almost all color coded or at least notched to only go together one way. Just about everything is keyed on modern systems to only plug in one way. Even things like USB headers on mother boards are becoming keyed to match to special cables.
Sure that is easy, only sell components that have been certified to work on the current revision hardware. Keep the choices simple, only one family of processors to choose from, any combination of motherboard X, processor Y, and number of sticks of RAM Z will work. The same way any combination on Dell's system configurator will work, some may be insane, but it still runs.
I have read the article to me it sounds more like a limited customizing shop. Think 1 hour photo counter, not rack of parts. They would not use the term Counter if it did not mean there would be someone behind the counter to do 90% of the work. Wal-Mart has had a limited assortment of internal computer components for years (hard drives, internal modems, over priced memory upgrade kits, etc), this is something new. You can train a reasonably typical person to assemble a computer from parts in a few hours, it is not all that hard, certainly no harder than training someone to operate and maintain a 1 hour photo lab. Imagine 2 or 3 base barebones systems, add processor, pre-installed hard drive, video card, and ram, then choose the external add on parts where the "sales associate" can talk you into double prints ^H^H^H^H^H^H monitors, wireless keyboards, etc.
Your looking at this the wrong way, you should be looking at the refurb/used computer export business. Working used / Off Lease P2, P3 business systems are now available here in the U.S. for under $50 complete with keyboard, mouse, and a 15 inch monitor in individual quantities if you know where to shop. I know an IT manager that works for a major cell phone company, disposal of used computers has always been a problem for them, they typically replace hundreds per month, recently they have a contract with a computer reseller that buys all of there end of life cycle computers for $10 each as is. Currently these are PIII-700 and faster, maybe even low end P4's depending on store closings, etc.
I see this as a reminder that what we often need is a fast, simple, but reasonably featured word processor without all the overhead of OpenOffice, etc. Perhaps something like Wordpad (just not crippleware) for Open Office, that will fork a full version of Open Office writer if it can't read a file. Something that would handle most casual office documents, or get most students through at least the first part of college, something with a spell checker, basic table support, margin control, maybe even embed simple charts or graphics.
Ike
p.s. it of course must write MS format files or else interchange is always a problem
There is a limit to over priced, I bought a flat panel monitor in one of these stores a couple of weeks ago. (They had a sale going on and it was a very good price) The monitor did not include a DVI cable however, and the only ones in the store were high end cables priced at $70, this is insane, $70 for something nearly identical to the cables you can buy for $10 mail order, even the $10 mail order ones have gold plated pins. Do they really think they are making enough on selling these to justify upseting the knowledgeable customer?
By writing I was not just refering to burning, but to composistion, track selection, and better management tools, label generation and printing, etc. Also there is the ever shorter run and faster turn around on real CD's not burned CD-R's.
I know this is not what the author was talking about, but there is plenty of life left in the lowly music CD in the form of short production sales. You know the types where the band sells them after performing for $10-15. Also as production costs drop, on burning speeds increase there may well be a market for all sorts of other on demand CD writing. The music store is the thing that is in danger, not the CD.
It worked before why not again, when Windows 95 came out ALL new games afterward ONLY supported Win 95. Some could be made to work on DOS/Win 3.1, but due to deals for the "Designed for Win 95 Logo" none mentioned it on the box.
I have been online for over 20 years now, starting out with BBSs and compuserve at around $9 per hour for 300 baud and $20 per hour for 1200 baud for non prime time connection (30 and 120 characters per second for those of you accustomed to megabits). Slowly things have changed first the rates dropped, then fixed rate plans were offered, then we had AOL with their 1,000, 5,000,... 50,000 hours per month for free. For the last decade we have enjoyed an all you can eat for one low price buffet online. The problem with the all you can eat buffet model is it assumes that some people will eat very little, some will eat a lot and most will be somewhere in the middle. The problem for the internet is peoples appitie for bandwith is increasing, the average dsl user is transfering far more information than the average dsl user did 5 or 10 years ago. At one time the files were mp3s at about a meg or two each, then it was movies in various compressed forms at about a gig each, now with faster dsl, cable modems, etc. we are seeing people exchaning entire television series on a whim. This means price of the buffet must either go up, hurting the little old lady that only uses it for emailing the grand kids, and the occasional video clip. Or things must be switched to an a la cart menu where lite eaters can order just the basic "salad" and the real pigs can order 12 racks of ribs, 5 pounds of king crab, a full cheese cake, and 24 mugs of beer to wash it down.
And wasn't it the rich celeb democrats that said not in back yard to wind farms, nuclear power, wave power, etc. For that matter they said the same thing about drilling for oil.
The problem with genetic engineering, hybrids, and human DNA is one of a slippery slope. When does this hybrid become a person with rights, if never then what is to stop us from creating a "sub human" classs of slaves or more worrisome, a "super human" one.
Good analogy, lets take it a step forward, the automobile was basicly invented in the 1890's, the internet was invented in the 1970's. 30 odd years into the internet and we have the era that we are living in today (roughly a decade after the first mass public involvement), with many things that have changed little in the last decade (is email, online shopping, or even slashdot that much different than it was nearly a decade ago), and potential for new uses and new ways to see things just around the corner (on demand video, customized content, etc). Now lets compare automobiles of 1920's this was towards the end of the era of the Ford Model T (first introduced about a decade before bringing cars to the common man) and just before the birth of automobiles that much more resemble their modern cousins in the 1930's. Some to the point of still being roadworthy collectors items today, antiques to be sure, but none the less roadworthy. Compare this to the model T that has been religated to being museum exhits, or only see the road during parades. To follow this analogy out, we are just now seeing the birth of the net into a form that it will closely resemble for the next 75 years.
What about when you take the car into the shop and you say, I think its the fuel pump. Get it back, and the problem is still there and your $160 poorer, take it back in again, and say I think its the fuel pump. They change the fuel filter, it runs better for a couple of days, then acts up again, you take it back and say I think its the fuel pump. They say it might be something else, you say "Change the fuel pump" they say but if its not that you will still have to pay for the new $450 fuel pump, you say fine. You come back to pick up the car and they say "it was the fuel pump"
Cars are a great analogy, people don't care how they work either, and most people prefer to pay others to work on them or add features (stereos, bug screens, turbochargers, wheels, etc). All they care about is driving them and complaining when they break down on the side of the road after 120,000 miles with no oil change (not running windows update).
I think the number one thing you need to talk about is not what is a hard drive, or the difference between DDR ram and a thumb drive, but instead it is how to be safe online. Simply saying never give out personal information is not enough. They need to know how to (relatively) safely buy things on Amazon, or ebay. How not to fall for the various email tricks. I have an older relative that has been using the internet for 4-5 years recently fall for one of these emails asking for credit card information. The email claimed to be from their ISP and said that the credit card that was on file had expired, then provided a click to add a new one link. The site looked legit, except for a small typo in the url.
As it stands now lack of state issued ID is almost a defacto guilty until proven innocent offense. As a perfect example, a few years ago I was on vacation at a beachfront hotel, One evening I was sitting out on the lounge chairs watching the sunset with a group of half a dozen or so strangers. There was typical limited casual conversation going on, one of the guys there was sipping a beer, and one of the women was drinking a glass of wine. A police officer pulls up on an ATV and starts asking for ID's from those that were drinking. The woman who appeared to be about 30 years old pulled her drivers license out from her purse. The guy with the beer was not so lucky, he looked a bit younger and was wearing a bathing suit, he said his ID was up in the hotel room. So the police officer spent the next 10-15 minutes disturbing out peaceful view of the sunset by asking this young guy all sorts of questions (Name, address, SSN, etc) then asked the entire group of people to not leave while he radioed this this information in. About 20 minutes later the police had looked up this guys drivers license, radioed back a description, etc. and confirmed that he was 25 years old.
Tiger may be good for cheap, but then there is that 2nd day air order I placed Dec 31 that I just canceled . When I ordered the item showed in stock, 3 days with no response to emails and 3 seperate calls over another 3 days being on hold for over 30 minutes each time before giving up before finnaly reaching a human that tells me the item will be back in stock in 2-3 weeks.
Just my $.02 here, but I have to agree it is their bizare rating system that is the problem. A number of years ago (10-15) they did a review of 35 mm SLR cameras. The camera they rated the highest was the Canon EOS Rebel, the camera they rated the lowest was the Canon EOS 1. The rebel was the cheapest camera Canon built at the time and the EOS 1 the most expensive. Why did the rebel win, the answer is in their scoring, weight and number of buttons (lighter weight, fewer buttons were considered best) the Rebel had ab all plastic body, the EOS 1 all metal.
I am wondering with the current mainsteam attitude toward video games in particular the first person shooter, if we are about to see the so called Sylvester Stallone effect for certain types of games regardless of how warm a and fuzzy they may be made. (for many years every Sylvester Stallone movie that was made was rated R, many would be re-edited and still be given R rating when any objective viewer would rate them PG or PG-13 in their original form) I am picturing an M or AO rated game of "Cupid" full of warm and fuzzy angels, and floating hearts shooting arrows at would be lovers.
One thing people seem to forget is people need to tune to LOCAL over the air broadcast news in times of emergencies. Around here that usualy means Huricanes, the power is out (along with the cable TV) so people pull out their battery powered 7 inch TV's to try to get an idea of what is going on, see the weather radar screen that the local station keeps up in the corner of the broadcast, etc. Another concern is the HD broadcast system has a range much shorter than the current VHF system (closer to conventional UHF), this leaves all those people that are currently living on the fringe on broadcast range without any method of getting local tv news.
Its already here for sailors also with things like 300 yard exclusion zones around all cruise ships. I just want someone that comes up with these regulations to explain to me how a sailboat with a top speed of 5 knots can stay out of the way of a cruise ship doint 20 knots when both are confined by draft to a ship channel that is 100 yards wide?
Clause 1: The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. (See Note 6) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, beprivileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
There is a big problem with this, without going into technical details, it is very hard to run low voltage DC very far due to line losses. Runs of more than 50 feet are almost impossible with 12 volt DC, and even those require extrememly large wires to avoid voltage drop. It gets a bit easier with 24 and 48 volt, but that does not help much inside a computer case where the typical largest power draw being on the 3.3 volt rail fromt he processor.
Slashdot Mirror
Let me start this off with saying I have been buying mail order computer for close to 20 years and have never been a big Dell fan. I disagree with the idea that they are in trouble, Dell has almost trained the guy on the street to pick up the phone and order a Dell when he is shopping for a computer. The price/performance numbers are just too nice, at work we recently purchased a handful of low end notebooks for a our salesmen (Inspiron B120/B130 Celeron 1400, 60 gig HD, 512 Meg Ram, DVD/CDRW drives, etc) complete overkill for looking at PDF's and inventory levels, we paid under $450 each delivered. These same units are now selling on Dell's outlet page "previously new" not refurb for $409 before discounts. Last summer during their big back to school discount promo I recomended a basic Dell desktop to my parents to replace their old P3 system, it was under $400 complete with flat panel display, etc. Last week I bought from Dell for the 1st time, a mid level notebook for my son to take to school when he moves off next month. It was a refurb off Dell's outlet page, and not the cheapest there, still for $700 it has a Pentium M 1700 mhz, a gig of ram, 60 gig HD, wireless, ATI X300 128 meg video, wireless, etc. Go find anything that comparable with that price that comes with any kind of warranty (the various loading dock specials don't count).
Ike
When was the last time you built a machine from parts, it is almost all color coded or at least notched to only go together one way. Just about everything is keyed on modern systems to only plug in one way. Even things like USB headers on mother boards are becoming keyed to match to special cables.
Sure that is easy, only sell components that have been certified to work on the current revision hardware. Keep the choices simple, only one family of processors to choose from, any combination of motherboard X, processor Y, and number of sticks of RAM Z will work. The same way any combination on Dell's system configurator will work, some may be insane, but it still runs.
Ike
I have read the article to me it sounds more like a limited customizing shop. Think 1 hour photo counter, not rack of parts. They would not use the term Counter if it did not mean there would be someone behind the counter to do 90% of the work. Wal-Mart has had a limited assortment of internal computer components for years (hard drives, internal modems, over priced memory upgrade kits, etc), this is something new. You can train a reasonably typical person to assemble a computer from parts in a few hours, it is not all that hard, certainly no harder than training someone to operate and maintain a 1 hour photo lab. Imagine 2 or 3 base barebones systems, add processor, pre-installed hard drive, video card, and ram, then choose the external add on parts where the "sales associate" can talk you into double prints ^H^H^H^H^H^H monitors, wireless keyboards, etc.
Ike
Your looking at this the wrong way, you should be looking at the refurb/used computer export business. Working used / Off Lease P2, P3 business systems are now available here in the U.S. for under $50 complete with keyboard, mouse, and a 15 inch monitor in individual quantities if you know where to shop. I know an IT manager that works for a major cell phone company, disposal of used computers has always been a problem for them, they typically replace hundreds per month, recently they have a contract with a computer reseller that buys all of there end of life cycle computers for $10 each as is. Currently these are PIII-700 and faster, maybe even low end P4's depending on store closings, etc.
Ike
I see this as a reminder that what we often need is a fast, simple, but reasonably featured word processor without all the overhead of OpenOffice, etc. Perhaps something like Wordpad (just not crippleware) for Open Office, that will fork a full version of Open Office writer if it can't read a file. Something that would handle most casual office documents, or get most students through at least the first part of college, something with a spell checker, basic table support, margin control, maybe even embed simple charts or graphics.
Ike
p.s. it of course must write MS format files or else interchange is always a problem
There is a limit to over priced, I bought a flat panel monitor in one of these stores a couple of weeks ago. (They had a sale going on and it was a very good price) The monitor did not include a DVI cable however, and the only ones in the store were high end cables priced at $70, this is insane, $70 for something nearly identical to the cables you can buy for $10 mail order, even the $10 mail order ones have gold plated pins. Do they really think they are making enough on selling these to justify upseting the knowledgeable customer?
By writing I was not just refering to burning, but to composistion, track selection, and better management tools, label generation and printing, etc. Also there is the ever shorter run and faster turn around on real CD's not burned CD-R's.
I know this is not what the author was talking about, but there is plenty of life left in the lowly music CD in the form of short production sales. You know the types where the band sells them after performing for $10-15. Also as production costs drop, on burning speeds increase there may well be a market for all sorts of other on demand CD writing. The music store is the thing that is in danger, not the CD.
It worked before why not again, when Windows 95 came out ALL new games afterward ONLY supported Win 95. Some could be made to work on DOS/Win 3.1, but due to deals for the "Designed for Win 95 Logo" none mentioned it on the box.
Ike
I have been online for over 20 years now, starting out with BBSs and compuserve at around $9 per hour for 300 baud and $20 per hour for 1200 baud for non prime time connection (30 and 120 characters per second for those of you accustomed to megabits). Slowly things have changed first the rates dropped, then fixed rate plans were offered, then we had AOL with their 1,000, 5,000,... 50,000 hours per month for free. For the last decade we have enjoyed an all you can eat for one low price buffet online. The problem with the all you can eat buffet model is it assumes that some people will eat very little, some will eat a lot and most will be somewhere in the middle. The problem for the internet is peoples appitie for bandwith is increasing, the average dsl user is transfering far more information than the average dsl user did 5 or 10 years ago. At one time the files were mp3s at about a meg or two each, then it was movies in various compressed forms at about a gig each, now with faster dsl, cable modems, etc. we are seeing people exchaning entire television series on a whim. This means price of the buffet must either go up, hurting the little old lady that only uses it for emailing the grand kids, and the occasional video clip. Or things must be switched to an a la cart menu where lite eaters can order just the basic "salad" and the real pigs can order 12 racks of ribs, 5 pounds of king crab, a full cheese cake, and 24 mugs of beer to wash it down.
Ike
And wasn't it the rich celeb democrats that said not in back yard to wind farms, nuclear power, wave power, etc. For that matter they said the same thing about drilling for oil.
The problem with genetic engineering, hybrids, and human DNA is one of a slippery slope. When does this hybrid become a person with rights, if never then what is to stop us from creating a "sub human" classs of slaves or more worrisome, a "super human" one.
Ike
Good analogy, lets take it a step forward, the automobile was basicly invented in the 1890's, the internet was invented in the 1970's. 30 odd years into the internet and we have the era that we are living in today (roughly a decade after the first mass public involvement), with many things that have changed little in the last decade (is email, online shopping, or even slashdot that much different than it was nearly a decade ago), and potential for new uses and new ways to see things just around the corner (on demand video, customized content, etc). Now lets compare automobiles of 1920's this was towards the end of the era of the Ford Model T (first introduced about a decade before bringing cars to the common man) and just before the birth of automobiles that much more resemble their modern cousins in the 1930's. Some to the point of still being roadworthy collectors items today, antiques to be sure, but none the less roadworthy. Compare this to the model T that has been religated to being museum exhits, or only see the road during parades. To follow this analogy out, we are just now seeing the birth of the net into a form that it will closely resemble for the next 75 years.
Ike
What about when you take the car into the shop and you say, I think its the fuel pump. Get it back, and the problem is still there and your $160 poorer, take it back in again, and say I think its the fuel pump. They change the fuel filter, it runs better for a couple of days, then acts up again, you take it back and say I think its the fuel pump. They say it might be something else, you say "Change the fuel pump" they say but if its not that you will still have to pay for the new $450 fuel pump, you say fine. You come back to pick up the car and they say "it was the fuel pump"
Cars are a great analogy, people don't care how they work either, and most people prefer to pay others to work on them or add features (stereos, bug screens, turbochargers, wheels, etc). All they care about is driving them and complaining when they break down on the side of the road after 120,000 miles with no oil change (not running windows update).
Ike
I think the number one thing you need to talk about is not what is a hard drive, or the difference between DDR ram and a thumb drive, but instead it is how to be safe online. Simply saying never give out personal information is not enough. They need to know how to (relatively) safely buy things on Amazon, or ebay. How not to fall for the various email tricks. I have an older relative that has been using the internet for 4-5 years recently fall for one of these emails asking for credit card information. The email claimed to be from their ISP and said that the credit card that was on file had expired, then provided a click to add a new one link. The site looked legit, except for a small typo in the url.
Ike
As it stands now lack of state issued ID is almost a defacto guilty until proven innocent offense. As a perfect example, a few years ago I was on vacation at a beachfront hotel, One evening I was sitting out on the lounge chairs watching the sunset with a group of half a dozen or so strangers. There was typical limited casual conversation going on, one of the guys there was sipping a beer, and one of the women was drinking a glass of wine. A police officer pulls up on an ATV and starts asking for ID's from those that were drinking. The woman who appeared to be about 30 years old pulled her drivers license out from her purse. The guy with the beer was not so lucky, he looked a bit younger and was wearing a bathing suit, he said his ID was up in the hotel room. So the police officer spent the next 10-15 minutes disturbing out peaceful view of the sunset by asking this young guy all sorts of questions (Name, address, SSN, etc) then asked the entire group of people to not leave while he radioed this this information in. About 20 minutes later the police had looked up this guys drivers license, radioed back a description, etc. and confirmed that he was 25 years old.
Ike
Tiger may be good for cheap, but then there is that 2nd day air order I placed Dec 31 that I just canceled . When I ordered the item showed in stock, 3 days with no response to emails and 3 seperate calls over another 3 days being on hold for over 30 minutes each time before giving up before finnaly reaching a human that tells me the item will be back in stock in 2-3 weeks.
Just my $.02 here, but I have to agree it is their bizare rating system that is the problem. A number of years ago (10-15) they did a review of 35 mm SLR cameras. The camera they rated the highest was the Canon EOS Rebel, the camera they rated the lowest was the Canon EOS 1. The rebel was the cheapest camera Canon built at the time and the EOS 1 the most expensive. Why did the rebel win, the answer is in their scoring, weight and number of buttons (lighter weight, fewer buttons were considered best) the Rebel had ab all plastic body, the EOS 1 all metal.
Ike
I am wondering with the current mainsteam attitude toward video games in particular the first person shooter, if we are about to see the so called Sylvester Stallone effect for certain types of games regardless of how warm a and fuzzy they may be made. (for many years every Sylvester Stallone movie that was made was rated R, many would be re-edited and still be given R rating when any objective viewer would rate them PG or PG-13 in their original form)
I am picturing an M or AO rated game of "Cupid" full of warm and fuzzy angels, and floating hearts shooting arrows at would be lovers.
One thing people seem to forget is people need to tune to LOCAL over the air broadcast news in times of emergencies. Around here that usualy means Huricanes, the power is out (along with the cable TV) so people pull out their battery powered 7 inch TV's to try to get an idea of what is going on, see the weather radar screen that the local station keeps up in the corner of the broadcast, etc. Another concern is the HD broadcast system has a range much shorter than the current VHF system (closer to conventional UHF), this leaves all those people that are currently living on the fringe on broadcast range without any method of getting local tv news.
Its already here for sailors also with things like 300 yard exclusion zones around all cruise ships. I just want someone that comes up with these regulations to explain to me how a sailboat with a top speed of 5 knots can stay out of the way of a cruise ship doint 20 knots when both are confined by draft to a ship channel that is 100 yards wide?
Ike
Article. I.
Section. 6.
Clause 1: The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. (See Note 6) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, beprivileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
There is a big problem with this, without going into technical details, it is very hard to run low voltage DC very far due to line losses. Runs of more than 50 feet are almost impossible with 12 volt DC, and even those require extrememly large wires to avoid voltage drop. It gets a bit easier with 24 and 48 volt, but that does not help much inside a computer case where the typical largest power draw being on the 3.3 volt rail fromt he processor.
Ike