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What Should People Understand About Computers?

counterexample asks: "It seems to me that there aren't very many good books out there that explain to the layman what is really going on with computers. My mother cannot go to the bookstore and pick up a book that will make her understand the strange language that we IT people speak, or why her computer would be susceptible to a virus. So, I intend to write such a book. I have a fair idea of what should be in it (history of the Internet, how computers talk to each other, what a hard drive does, etc.), but I'm interested to see what you all have to say. What do you wish your users knew? What kind of questions are you so sick of answering because you hear them every week? What does the general public think they understand, but really don't?"

962 comments

  1. More like where do you draw the line? by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My ancestors (parents and grandparents) are a naturally inquisitive people. Any attempt to teach them things about computers may only leave them more confused and full of questions.

    You are about to undertake a Herculean task in that you are now required to omit certain things which we may all know. I think your strategy should concentrate on figuring out how simply you can describe something without causing more confusion and questions.

    I would suggest analyzing The New Way Things Work by David Macaulay because he does a good job at using simple illustrations and brought me up to speed on a lot of engineering ideas when I was only in fifth grade. I would try to mimic him and use his level of detail as a template into what the common person is ready to ingest.

    Perhaps you should also change your strategy from "What do I include?" to "Where do I draw the line?" Start with a computer and describe the monitor, mouse, keyboard, box, printer, etc. in a high level. These are the obvious things you see. Then you can take and chapter by chapter explain each component down to as much detail as you want to. I would then have a chapter on communications and the internet that doesn't go all the way down to protocols.

    Allow me to illustrate what kind of people you should aim this book at in this telephone call between me and my mother:

    Me: Ok, tell me what the screen says now.
    Mom: It's blue.
    Me: What do you mean "it's blue"? What does it say?
    Mom: It says, "9F D8 34 7B ..."
    Me: Um, that's ok, ma, I don't speak hex.
    Mom: "... FA 25 3C A2 ..."

    One more thing, I shudder at the possibility of the history of computers being taught to my parents. This is more information that isn't really pertinent to what a layperson needs to know about computers. I would suggest delving into this as little as possible but historical facts always make reading interesting if you want to include little side notes.

    As with most projects undertaken--keep it simple, stupid!

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Rei · · Score: 5, Funny

      People need to understand that computers are magical boxes that run on white smoke and fairy dust. Never, ever open your computer, or even risk hooking new devices up to it; you might cause the spell to fail. Understanding how it works is of course beyond any normal mortal; computer geeks are a different breed of human utterly different than you or I.

      All software installed on the computer when you get it is part of a complex enchantment; to attempt to remove any bundled software or to even look at configuration options is to destroy the enchantments and render your computer a worthless heap of metal.

      The internet is an evil place where every website is either a lie or an attempt to lure children to molesters. Of course, email from your friends is always safe - after all, your friends would never send you a malicious file.

      --
      Son, a woman is a lot like a refrigerator. They're six feet tall, 300 pounds... they make ice... umm...
    2. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Goalie_Ca · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It seems to me that there aren't very many good books out there that explain to the layman what is really going on with computers...

      My ancestors (parents and grandparents) are a naturally inquisitive people. Any attempt to teach them things about computers may only leave them more confused and full of questions.

      Maybe i'm a cynic but I believe that most people don't care about computers for the same reason they don't care about anything else. The average layperson isn't curious at all! Slashdot is full of nerds. We read about nanobots, particle physics, and GPL drafts in our spare time. Besides, when's the last time an average person has read a book? (bonus points for non-fiction) Inquisitive people, like you or I, are the type of people that will read a wikipedia page and then read all the connecting pages until a good hour has been spent. Curious people have enough self-motivation to do their own research and will do so from multiple sources.

      --

      ----
      Go canucks, habs, and sens!
    3. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by usrusr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Me: Ok, tell me what the screen says now.
      Mom: It's blue.
      Me: What do you mean "it's blue"? What does it say?
      Mom: It says, "9F D8 34 7B ..."
      Me: Um, that's ok, ma, I don't speak hex.
      Mom: "... FA 25 3C A2 ..."


      That's a very important point, no matter how much we know about the technical details of computer operation, the biggest difference between "us" and "them" ( = the proverbial mum) remains the mental "spam filter" that allows us to focus on the relevant parts of the UI presentation.

      --
      [i have an opinion and i am not afraid to use it]
    4. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by dr_strang · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking that most people don't care and will need a pretty compelling reason to do so (care). For the majority of computer users over the last 15 years, computing has been a mostly negative experience, and unless you can convince them that reading your book will be very beneficial, you won't sell.

      --
      This is a sig. It is like every other sig in the world, except that it is mine, and it is different.
    5. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Funny

      People need to understand that computers are magical boxes that run on white smoke and fairy dust.

      Reminds me of that BOFH issue where the BOFH got a user to fry his power supply. "See that puff of smoke? Your computer doesn't work any more because you let the magic smoke escape!" Priceless.

    6. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For the majority of computer users over the last 15 years, computing has been a mostly negative experience

      You really think so?

      Personally, I LIKE having the world's largest information store and community center available at my fingertips, and I wouldn't go back to DOS 5.0, dial-up BBSes at 9600k, or long walks to the library to look up simple facts for any amount of money.

    7. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Eberlin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You pour a little...and if they absorb, you pour a little more. Most of the material is given through those Gates Foundation grants (I work at a library that received one of them grants a few years ago), but somewhat modified so as not to sound like an infomercial.

      My perspective is that most adults are task-oriented and not really of the computer-curious type. They want to know enough to get them running -- being able to type up a letter, look up a few things on the web, and maybe figure out how to send/receive pictures of relatives.

      Of course you can't jump directly to "surfing the 'net" until they've got the basics down. Give them a general idea of the parts of a computer and what they do. Don't need to go into mega detail about types of RAM, video cards, and motherboards...just enough that they understand what does what.

      When I teach the stuff, I try to organize the hardware into Input/Process/Output to give them a bit of perspective. Keyboards, mice, and other input devices -- then all the processing stuff inside the box, then output devices like monitors, printers, and speakers.

      From there you go into UI and the common features of just about anything there. Titlebar, menubar, scrollbar, etc. Then you go heavy on mousing and a little on the keyboarding -- what the keys are good for. Go HEAVY on the mousing. I always stress that for most users, this is like learning the alphabet...you can't move on to sentences and paragraphs unless you have the basics down.

      After that, you can branch onto the different task-oriented topics. Internet would include history, a bit on structure, very brief on maybe protocols (just enough so they know the importance of standards), search engines, etc. Here you can also talk about security and various things to watch out for with a networked computer. I once had a more net-savvy crowd and I branched into more "social" issues like censorship, anonymity, file sharing, yadda yadda. Though it was fun, it was a specific audience that knew enough to contribute to the discussion.

      Then you've got word processing where you have to stress the concept of highlighting/selecting things they want to work with. You've got to highlight text if you want to format it. Compare it to the old typewriters to establish familiarity, and think up cute little paradigms to help them understand what's going on. This isn't the place for emacs and vi either. :)

      So in the end you pour a little, and pour a little more if they want more info. In the end, it's about getting them started, giving them enough confidence so they don't fear the damn things (but fear it enough so they don't go around doing stupid things with it), then letting them know that if they're really interested, there's oodles more information out there.

      Good luck. :)

    8. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by ReverendLoki · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I think the key word is "majority", though I disagree with that. I do acknowledge that for many, it is pretty much a negative experience, and for a majority, it is not nearly as rewarding as it could be.

      I personally like getting out for a nice walk down to the library every now and then. However, if every time I went out to make this walk I ended up taking wrong turn after wrong turn, ended up getting completely lost to the point I couldn't find my way home again, and just as I'm about to give up and call someone to drive me home I broke my leg, then I might stop trying to walk to the library.

      For those who can get to the library with no trouble, it's a great resource - but to those who can't get to it, it's of no use at all.

      Golly gee, I hope my analogy isn't too obscure or subtle...

      Anyways, that is sort of an extreme example. Most of the public just takes one or two wrong turns on their way to the library. They eventually get there, but it takes them about a half hour longer than it should. Sure it's good exercise, but it's still annoying as hell.

      Does that mean we need to redo our entire network of roads, sidewalks and paths? Of course not. But, there are a lot of people who could benefit from a few more maps and lessons in how to read and use them.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    9. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Locke03 · · Score: 1

      I have to agree with the parent, especially on the bit about the history of the computer. From the decidedly non-geek people I know (most of the people I know) what they would use (or not) the most is a step-by-step guidebook that could walk them through common problems that they might encounter. "My computer isn't connecting to the internet, how can I fix it? My printer is spitting out blank pages, what's wrong? OMFG i got te blue screen, WTF popups I can't stop them!!" The "average" person isn't concerned that Tim Berners-Lee is credited with the invention of the WWW or that the internet sprang from ARPANET. Me and you may care about PARC and ENIAC but most people would really rather not know. They want to know how to get their instant messenger and email working again and stop their computer from locking up on them.
      Anyways, a nobel goal and I hope you are able to pull this off

      --
      I don't care what youre doing so much as the idiotic way you're doing it.
    10. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by M4N14C · · Score: 0

      Yesterday

      Mother(Poking an Antennae to see if its hot): "What the hell is this?"
      Me(Matter of factly): "It's a router"
      Mother(Scorining): "How should I know I dont normally use one."
      Me: "Did you check your email today?"

    11. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by east+coast · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The internet is an evil place where every website is either a lie or an attempt to lure children to molesters.

      This is also the place where your kids learn to build bombs and shoot guns. According to my local TV station it seems that society went for years and years without murder or bombs but since this internet thing... woo! crimes just everywhere and what motivated all these people to suddenly apply their high school chemistry knowledge? The Internet of course.

      They also said that playing video games is bad for your health but it seems that watching TV is OK since they didn't mention it.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    12. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by C0rinthian · · Score: 2, Informative

      First rule of tech support: NEVER ask someone to tell you what they see on the screen, because they will. All of it. No matter how hard you try to stop them.

      Yes/No questions are your best friend.

    13. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by macsox · · Score: 1

      bonus points for non-fiction? there's more use to non-fiction books than fictional ones? is this solely within the context of this conversation, or do you actually believe that? is a photograph worth more than a painting on this point scale?

    14. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me: Ok, tell me what the screen says now.
      Mom: It's blue.
      Me: What do you mean "it's blue"? What does it say?
      Mom: It says, "9F D8 34 7B ..."
      Me: Um, that's ok, ma, I don't speak hex.
      Mom: "... FA 25 3C A2 ..."

      9F D8 34 7B FA 25 3C A2
      Is hex for:
      This Blue Screen of Death was brought to you by Bill Gates.
      Thank you for supporting your global monopoly.

    15. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool! If we can start spreading that attitude, our grandchildren (ok, grandnieces & grandnephews for most of the people here...) will be actual technomages!

    16. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by thc69 · · Score: 5, Informative

      All of the above boils down to this:

      My parents must read every character on the screen before they can gather a single piece of data from it. They cannot interact with the computer until they have viewed, thought about, squinted at, photographed, printed the photo of, discarded the photo of, composted the photo of, and grown a new tree out of that photo, of every pixel.

      Users can't read you the part you need because, with the possible exception of something that is obviously a cheesecake recipe, everything on the screen is nonsense to them. Maybe Cliff could attempt to quantify and describe the filters used by us geeks to read only the important stuff. Extra credit if you can teach them to correctly operate "OK" and "Cancel" buttons in other languages/broken video cards/buggy software (more extra credit if they can do it ambi-interfacedly -- mouse and/or keyboard).

      That reminds me: One thing that should definitely be covered is the 3-way "Save file" dialog that comes up when exiting a program/shutting down, and similar dialogs, that offer "Yes", "No", and "Cancel". This confuses the heck out of many users, and it's not reasonable to expect them to figure it out on their own unless they're geeks. They need to know that "Cancel" is a sure-fire way to get nothing done and be back where they started, and that they need to click "No" if they want to continue exiting the program but don't want to save the file. A sidebar should explain that walking away from the dialog will result in the computer waiting forever, and probably an "End task?" dialog will come up too.

      --
      Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
    17. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Frankly, I am more and more coming to this point of view, as far as users are concerned. Let them think the tiny god could become angry with them if they browse the wrong folders, or tamper with the holy configurations.

      You can't teach them enough to be fully competent. If you teach them a little, you just make them dangerous, able to screw up on a much more profound level.

      Solution? Teach them as little as possible.

      This goes against my grain. I love teaching people things. But whenever I show someone how to do something, inevitably, destruction ensues.

      How many user problems arise from them trying to install software? Solution: make it so they can't install software. Give them access to system files? Not if you don't want them to throw them away later, out of boredom. Let them configure their own apps? Are you out of your MIND?

      I used to work in my university computer lab. When you logged into a computer, it would build your system profile for you, from stored settings (not thin client, mind you, it pulled down everything you needed and wrote it on the local harddrive). Applications were served from central servers. Files were saved in your serverside directory.

      When you logged off, it went through and ran a cleanup app that expunged every trace of your presence, checked all the system files, and replaced any that had been modified in ANY WAY. Five minutes later, a perfectly clean machine was ready for another user. The only real problem we had with it was that it was rough as hell on the harddrive, so the replacement rate was pretty high.

      Every place I've worked since then, I've longed for that level of control. No viruses, no wierd errors. Worst case scenario, you replace the harddrive and run a build script.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    18. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by hackstraw · · Score: 4, Funny

      Me: Ok, tell me what the screen says now.
      Mom: It's blue.
      Me: What do you mean "it's blue"? What does it say?
      Mom: It says, "9F D8 34 7B ..."
      Me: Um, that's ok, ma, I don't speak hex.
      Mom: "... FA 25 3C A2 ..."


      What kind of computer program does that?

      Modern computers have a little screen that pops up if the OS crashes, that tells you in 5 or so languages to hold down your power button for a few seconds, and restart the machine. They also ask you on reboot if you want to send a bug report back to the manufacturer so they can fix the problem.

    19. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Jetboy01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But along the same lines, never ask "Do you see such and such a thing on the screen?" as many people will just tell you what they think you want to hear in order to get you utter the magic 'solution' to their problem.

    20. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by smithhayward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      I think that there should be a chapter on the differences between:

      1. Your Background and your Screensaver
      2. Uploading and Installing
      3. The fact that you download a file from the internet doesn't magically make the program you were looking for available in the Start Menu.

    21. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by edbosanquet · · Score: 1

      Personally, I LIKE having the world's largest information store and community center available at my fingertips, and I wouldn't go back to DOS 5.0, dial-up BBSes at 9600k, or long walks to the library to look up simple facts for any amount of money.

      I believe you missed the orgional posters idea completly. Most users wonder why one day thier web browser is working and the next it fails. Having access to data and the fact things are getting better does not make it a good experience. I agree that I like my Pentimum 4 or my G4 running Fedora Core 1 or OSX repsectivly much more than I enjoyed Windows 3.1 on a 486DX33 or Mac OS (version 1 or however it was versioned back then) but the user interface still has a LONG way to go before it bacomes acceptable. Even for a printer what the hell does "PC load letter" mean. I won't get started on some crypic errors in Linux but why should I think that "ls" will print the files in a directory unless I look though boxes of documentation or someone tells me. On Windows why does it report hex values on the blue screen of death. That means nothing and confuses users. Why is it there at all?

      My point is computers are nice but the UI on them still needs a lot of work.

    22. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bonus points for non-fiction? there's more use to non-fiction books than fictional ones? is this solely within the context of this conversation, or do you actually believe that? is a photograph worth more than a painting on this point scale?

      Of course it's in the context of this discussion. We're talking about (in general) reading for entertainment value vs. reading to be informed. It's not always so black and white but your knee-jerk reaction is unwarranted.

    23. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I work with this guy whose whole job is to maintain a legacy mainframe. He can look at an outqueue, just glance at it, and tell you immediately what jobs failed. He'll call me up if the filesize on the input files is off kilter, and can tell from the most hopelessly obscure error message what the actual problem is.

      Thirty years experience will do that to you. Moreover, thirty years experience will do that to any of us. We have built in junk filters because we've seen the amazing bluescreen a zillion times. Our eyes automatically zero in on the actual error, because we've trained them to do it, error after error, for 16-19 years now.

      The problem is, there is no way you can teach experience. In a way that's good because if you could, most of us'd be out of a job. But in situations like this, is damn inconvenient.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    24. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    25. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't know about the GP, but my opinion would be there are many bad novels, but no bad facts.

      A well-written nonfiction book that lets you understand more about people, the world, the Universe, mathematics, music [running out of examples within gawking distance] is a precious pearl. A book that tells you how to do something- different but still special. Bonus points if it was written by the inventor or discoverer ;)

      OTOH, I can count on one hand the fictional books that have changed my life. I really love fiction- "serious" novels, sci-fi, horror, even poetry. Anything But Fantasy. But it rarely changes who I am, in quite the same way.

      However, most of the books you see (in the UK at least) are quasi-fiction (astrology, men vs women, how $deity/$diet will change your life), escapist pornographic shite (chick-lit, Tom Clancy) or books of lists (come sweet death).

      So, I'd say bonus points for non-fiction. But perhaps extend it to anything which doesn't render you more stupid. Although each to their own: everything in moderation.

      [like me, the "I am not a robot" word is "mammal"]

    26. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's would be Windows, Jim. Almost all of the NT line started with a line of hex on a blue screen. And XP & ME still had memory registers in hex on the bsod.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    27. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you need to learn how to imagine larger amounts of money.

    28. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by twifosp · · Score: 1

      Dumb user should have been running nosmoke.exe -a -s anyway. Serves him right.

    29. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by UnrefinedLayman · · Score: 5, Informative
      Me: Ok, tell me what the screen says now.
      Mom: It's blue.
      Me: What do you mean "it's blue"? What does it say?
      Mom: It says, "9F D8 34 7B ..."
      Me: Um, that's ok, ma, I don't speak hex.
      Mom: "... FA 25 3C A2 ..."
      Your post was great, and I think a lot of it will help the person that asked. Having said that, it's important to point out that a lot of the frustration that people feel is borne of the feeling that the person providing support knows exactly what they're doing and the person seeking support doesn't.

      It's kind of like taking your car into the shop. A lot of people will be nervous in front of the mechanic and not want to describe what the problem is with the car because they don't know the terminology or where the problem could be. Instead they'll say it sounds like the catalytic converter is overheating the timing belt on the radiator exhaust manifold piston: a bunch of useless information. Nervousness breeds uncertainty breeds impatience breeds hositility, and the same is true with computers.

      The problem is often that the person providing support doesn't ask the right questions. Some of the best support I've gotten has been from people that led me to the answers. The questions in your example are perfect: "What does the screen say?" and "What do you mean 'it's blue,' what does it say?" Screens don't say anything, they have things printed on them, and when the user gives you an answer, it doesn't help to ask them a ridiculing question ("what do you mean, 'it's blue?'" (hint: they mean 'it's blue')) and then repeat your original question. It gets you nowhere (as you demonstrated). When it's expected that there's a whole lot of useless information (a hex dump) and a little bit of useful information (IRQ NOT LESS OR EQUAL TO), it's the job of the person providing support to lead the user to the answer. Try the exchange:

      You: "The screen should be light blue with a white box for a password below your username. Do you see that?"
      Mom: "The screen's dark blue and it has a bunch of white text."
      You: "OK, there should be a bunch of random text at the top, with the letters A through F and the numbers 0 through 9. Ignore that part; we're looking for the first line below all the random text that has actual words in it. Read me that line."

      Like you said, people aren't dumb and they're naturally inquisitive. Leading them through the troubleshooting steps makes support a lot easier and productive. Most of the problems I see with support analysts is that they don't know how to ask the right questions, not that the user is too dumb to understand. Even the dumbest user can be helped if they're willing and if the support person has the right skills.
    30. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by m1a1 · · Score: 1

      His point is that people read non-fiction to learn about something as opposed to entertainment. This doesn't mean that there's more inherent value to works of non-fiction. However, from an educational standpoint a non-fiction work is likely aimed at teaching me something; be it history, math, current events, etc.

      How often do you see someone reading a Danielle Steel or Stephen King novel as opposed to some Stephen Hawking? You read the fiction when you need a break from the world around and the non-fiction when you want to know more about the world around you.

    31. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by aitikin · · Score: 1
      ...risk hooking new devices up to it; you might cause the spell to fail.


      Sad but true. One of my friend's parents thought it'd be a good idea to upgrade his RAM. He had one of his sons try to upgrade it with an older chip from his computer. He didn't realize that DDR and classic SDRAM don't quite work well together. He forced the RAM in and now nothing on it works. Now they're waiting out for an Intel based Mac Mini.
      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    32. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by pudding7 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      NEVER ask a yes/no question. The user will always say "yes". invariably, without fail.

      "Ok, do you see the pink elephant in the bottom left corner?"
      "Yes"

    33. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WORD

    34. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well we could change ls and rm and other "cryptic" programs to listFilesInDirectory and removeTheSpecifiedFileOrFiles but that's a waste of typing, I know there are at least some Linux/Unix users out there that are unfamiliar with tab completion. So ls, rm, mv, cp work fine.

    35. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by kurt_ram · · Score: 0

      We read about nanobots, particle physics, and GPL drafts in our spare time

      Speak for yourself, Nerd Boy! :-)

      --
      Clearly, Google is the next Microsoft.
    36. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually I disagree. I think most people are curious, at some level, about computers. (Actually I think most people are curious about a whole lot of things.) However they find that asking them questions usually doesn't get them anywhere, and so they learn to treat the computer as a sort of 'magic box' and ignore whatever curious impulses they might have over how it works.

      Think of what most people get if they ask a question about computers. If they don't outright get told that there's 'no reason for them to know,' or 'it's too complicated for me to explain,' either they get some sort of patronizing explanation that they themselves know isn't true, or one so loaded with technical detail that they feel like an imbecile for asking. It's either the children's book or the technical manual; there's no middle ground. And it really only takes one bad experience to throw someone off a subject that they're only peripherally interested in.

      I don't think this is necessarily specific to computers, though. Most people don't really know how their television, automobile transmission, or microwave works. Every once in a while they might get curious and wonder what's going on inside, but they know that if they ask a really knowledgable person a question (e.g. if they ask a mechanic about a transmission) they'll probably either get brushed off or get an incomprehensible response. So they shrug and go on in ignorance.

      Personally I think the internet is very slowly beginning to change that. When you have immediate access to information on practially anything -- and especially technical topics -- it becomes a lot less painful to fulfill that momentary impulse to learn. You don't have to go to a library, you don't have to find an expert, and you can read as much or as little as you like. "More than you want to know about just about anything" is just a HowStuffWorks, Wikipedia, or Google query away.

      Just as a personal anecdote, I've noticed that my father (who is in his late 60s, and was until recently of the ardent conviction that typing was for secretaries) uses the internet constantly when he's watching television. The last time I was home, we were watching a movie he saw as a young man (Ben Hur, I believe) and he recalled that when the movie had originally been released, a big deal had been made of how it was shot in "Panavision"; however he'd never been totally clear what Panavision was. So as we were sitting there he grabbed his laptop, typed "Panavision" into wikipedia, and answered a 47-year-long 'mild curiosity' in about ten minutes.

      My point in all this is that you have to present information to people in a way that's easily -- perhaps instanly -- accessible. Start simply, and work up from there. Don't try to force anything on them; if and when they want to know something (if you do your job right) they'll find you and satisfy themselves. I think Wikipedia and HowStuffWorks are great because it lets someone who's just mildly curious about something to find an answer to their question in a satisfying way, so that the next time they're curious about something, they won't repress the urge to find out. Plus if they're more than just mildly curious, they both provide ways to learn more about a topic, or about related topics.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    37. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by koreaman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I remember the definition correctly, all religious texts are nonfiction, because they're intended to be true and are designed for an audience that believes them to be true.

    38. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by jibjibjib · · Score: 0

      It must be more positive than negative, otherwise they wouldn't have a computer.

    39. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by daviddennis · · Score: 2, Informative

      For those that don't get the joke, what he describes is exactly how MacOS X deals with the blue screen problem.

      I'm sure Steve Jobs scrutinized every pixel of that in countless meetings, screamed at at least one employee who didn't quite get it right, and finally, well, he has the prettiest crash message that exists, yes, in five different languages.

      As long as it's not you he's screaming at ... you have to admire Steve. He really does care about these things. I'm a big Steve fan because I love the fact that he worked super-hard to create an environment with this kind of thought and atention to detail.

      I was getting it a lot because I had bad memory in my G5. Don't put bad memory in your G5 :-(.

      D

    40. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Last I heard, Microsoft told him that nosmoke.exe is incompatible with his power supply and that he needed to get a new one.

    41. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by prgrmr · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Like you said, people aren't dumb and they're naturally inquisitive.

      Where is this planet, and how do I get there?

      Many people I deal with are not only as dumb as a box of rocks, they have no patience and no willingness to listen to anyone who even remotely sounds like they know what they are talking about unless the instruction list for getting from broken to back browsing is three steps or less.

      Most people want what they want when they want it, and don't give a damn about anything or anyone else.

    42. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is liken to driving. There are some people that I wouldn't let them drive an tricycle and for some an Formula One race car. Each person can be good at some things and horrible in others so there should an type of computer for an grouping of people like the beginners, intermediate, advanced and professional. But like most people they all want to be professional but have no idea how to use it but just like to have an "pro" toy. Most executives and other affluent have this disease and make these "pro" devices sound harder than they really are.

    43. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by C0rinthian · · Score: 1

      When that starts to happen I start mentioning the dreaded 'OEM' and they suddenly start paying attention. (I used to work ISK tech support)

      ME: Click on the START button
      USER: I don't see it
      ME: It should be in the bottom left of the screen, in the gray bar
      USER: It's not there. ME: Well then, it looks like you have some problems with the Operating System. I'm going to have to recommend you call your computer manufacturer.
      USER: (Suddenly paying attention) Wait! I found it!

    44. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by ChrisGilliard · · Score: 1

      Yes, this post is very true. One thing to keep in mind, when you give a proposal to a publishing company for a book like you described, they will undoubtably come back to you with something like: You don't want to write a book that attempts to solve world hunger. The point being, focus on more of a niche. For instance, the best selling book last year was XP For Dummies. Since you're on Slashdot, that's probably not your idea of "what most people need to know", but keep in mind this is something people do want information on. I'm not saying to write about XP persay, but you need to have at least some sort of niche. Maybe it's not tied to the OS, but tied to business computing, or blogging, or a browser, but I think it will be hard to write a book like, "Everything you need to know about computing". Unless you're attempting humor with your title.

      --
      No Sigs!
    45. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like you said, people aren't dumb and they're naturally inquisitive. Leading them through the troubleshooting steps makes support a lot easier and productive. Most of the problems I see with support analysts is that they don't know how to ask the right questions, not that the user is too dumb to understand. Even the dumbest user can be helped if they're willing and if the support person has the right skills.


      Back when I was in technical support, I'd often explain (in a sentence or two) why I was asking them to look for the information I'd requested or follow the instructions I'd given them. Users generally tended to do what I told them after that, even if they'd resisted before. "Okay, now in order to find out what files are missing, I need you to type the following command ..." That little bit of explanation made what I was asking them to do less "magic", I guess.

    46. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by happyemoticon · · Score: 1
      That reminds me: One thing that should definitely be covered is the 3-way "Save file" dialog that comes up when exiting a program/shutting down, and similar dialogs, that offer "Yes", "No", and "Cancel".

      OS X and Gimp generally say, "Save", "Do not save", and "Cancel". Bust out that one the next time you hear somebody talking about Linux usability. Even that isn't perfect. If I had my druthers I'd go with something like, "Save/Don't Save/Back" (with a second warning that comes up if you hit Don't Save), because anybody who's used a back button a browser is going to understand the last one.

      I've been writing functional specs for the last six months, and I can assure you, the easiest way to confuse your user is with Yes/No/Cancel. I've even confused myself a few times. I almost set up a dialog that had Abort/Retry/Ignore/Fail as an easter egg.

    47. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by crimson30 · · Score: 1

      I'm inclined to agree wholeheartedly with your comment, however, there might be those who are genuinely curious, but find it all too daunting. Such is the case with me and string theory. I am interested to find out *exactly* what all the buzz is about, but I don't want to go through the trouble of learning the necessary math and physics that I imagine to be required for full understanding.

      @counterexample:

      By the way, on getting people to understand computers more, my approach would be to touch on the basic fundamentals like basic electronics and programming. I would start off with:

      1. Basic atomic theory (skip as necessary)
      2. Basic electronics (with a bonus section of logic circuits)
      3. How a computer basically works (using Babbages Analytical Engine, as a tangible starting point)
      4. Basics on modern desktops (PSU, MB, HD, RAM, etc)
      5. Basic programming (some assembly and show a few C commands that encompass several assembly commands)
      6. Basic networking (teach the OSI model with *specific examples*, not the ambiguities I always see)

      Once you have all the fundamentals and a computer is no longer a magical box, I would imagine the rest to fall into place much easier. Then you could go into the mundane and less universal topics like dicking with windows or some such.

    48. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by techno-vampire · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Besides, when's the last time an average person has read a book?

      I've spoken to people who have bragged that they've never read a book since they graduated from High School. I also have a friend who's severely dyslexic, but reads more books than most people every year, because he doesn't let his dyslexia stop him. Not only does he read, he reads science-fiction, mostly, and is proud when he can finish a book in under a week and comprehend it. For him, that's a major achievement. What really gets me is all those people who are quite capable of reading, but simply won't. I've taken to call them "pseudo-literate," because they can pass a literary test, but refuse to use that skill, even when they'd profit by it.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    49. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Misanthropy · · Score: 1

      Nicely put. I have a perfect example of this from just the other day:

      My dad's friend was having some trouble doing something on his computer. It's something that, if I was in front of his machine, would have taken me all of two minutes to do. But I tried to explain it on the phone and it took close to a half hour before he finally got it worked out.
      I was trying to explain the simplest things like opening two explorer windows so you can drag files between folders, and he got confused by terms I used. It was frustrating for me because it was just "so easy".

      The guy in question is an anesthesiologist, and is a VERY smart man. I had to remind myself that he could rattle off stuff that, to a doctor, is as easy as walking and talking, but to most people it is completely incomprehensible. While I have spent years with computers (to where using them feels like second nature) he has done the same with medicine.

      It just comes down to where your experience lies. The good doctor wasn't dumb; it's just that his experience was in the realm of medicine. It's not as the grandparent poster said that he was not curious or didn't want to learn. Just that with his limited time he chose to learn other things.

      On a related note: I'm in medical school so I'll get to be one of the doctors who knows about computers, too!

    50. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Of course, after all, the internet is based on the Total Crime Protocol/Internet Protocol (TCP/IP), as well as some other protocol building on that like the Hacker Tool Transfer Protocol (HTTP - remember, hackers are evil people who want to destroy your data), the Simple Malware Transfer Protocol (SMTP) or the Fraudulent Transaction Protocol (FTP). Also there are data formats used like the Porn Distribution Format (PDF). You see, the internet is EVIL!

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    51. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by tsm_sf · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you need to use a soft mallet when installing RAM. A regular hammer is too hard on the chips.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    52. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Oops, reminder to myself: Don't forget to review! Of course TCP/IP means Total Crime Protocol/Illegal Protocol!

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    53. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, there you go! They tried to upgrade their RAM at home and ended up with a better computer. A good outcome all around!

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    54. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      That's because No and Cancel are basically the same thing to non-geeks (and many geeks too.. I have to think about it sometimes).

      There should always be at most 2 options... of course if you can avoid asking the question in the first place it's much better (someone once told me 'people don't want choice, they want what they want').

    55. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Of course, the reason many people wouldn't get the joke is because they've never had an OSX crash. OTOH, I DID recognize the NT Blue Screen description.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    56. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by tylernt · · Score: 1

      "I believe that most people don't care about computers for the same reason they don't care about anything else."

      Exactly. How many people have the slightest idea how the internal combustion engine in their car works? Not many. They have more important things to worry about, like complaining about the price of gasoline and keeping the battery on their cell phone (of which they also have no idea how it works) charged.

      --
      DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
    57. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by TomasDK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I understand your feelings on this, but imo people should be able to at least have the ability to experiment with computers. The only reason I know the things I know now, is because I messed up and had to figure out a way to repair the damage.

      Maybe an easy to use version of "system restore" would give people the nerve to try some things, and if whatever they try fails: just push some reset button and a default OS magically respawns. Fear of doing something wrong again after a bad experience with computers stops a lot of people from learning more about them.

    58. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "My dad's friend was having some trouble doing something on his computer. It's something that, if I was in front of his machine, would have taken me all of two minutes to do. But I tried to explain it on the phone and it took close to a half hour before he finally got it worked out.
      I was trying to explain the simplest things like opening two explorer windows so you can drag files between folders, and he got confused by terms I used. It was frustrating for me because it was just "so easy"."
      That is because you lack a skill not the user. Doing technical support over the phone well is a skill. It is possible to walk someone through what you just describe in just a few minutes. You said it in that it comes down to where your experience lies. Yes their are badly trained monkeys doing phone support but their are people that are really talented at it. The shame is that one someone does it well it looks so simple.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    59. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by lisnter · · Score: 1

      I remember some of the European Internet cafe's from 2001 followed this same model. Seemed like a good way to avoid all manner of nastyness. Took 2 minutes for the full wipe/image cycle. I wonder now if now you could use a bunch of flash chips in place of the magnetic media and avoid the hard-disk wear-and-tear. But of course flash devices have their own MTBF.

    60. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by iangoldby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you teach them a little, you just make them dangerous, able to screw up... Solution? Teach them as little as possible... make it so they can't install software...

      Every place I've worked since then, I've longed for that level of control.


      Unfortunately, you give the game away with your last statement. Systems administrators love to have absolute power and it does avoid all those tedious problems of sorting out machines their users have broken. The problem is that unless they are really well resourced they won't be able to do everything the users need doing in the timescales that are necessary.

      But worse still, in your effort to protect the unsophisticated users from themselves, you inevitably hamstring the more sophisticated users.

      It's all very well saying that all requests for new software have to go through IT support. But then one of your sophisticated users wants some highly specialised piece of software that could just be downloaded and installed in 15 minutes. No one in IT has even heard of it before. It has to be approved and scripted, and while there is one user waiting for this there are 200 clamouring for the upgrade to MS Project. The result is that you're lucky to get it any time in the next 10 weeks. Something you could have installed yourself in 15 minutes if only IT would drop their one-size-fits-all policy and give trust where trust is due.

      Sorry, rant over :-)

    61. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by westlake · · Score: 1
      When you have immediate access to information on practially anything -- and especially technical topics -- it becomes a lot less painful to fulfill that momentary impulse to learn.

      "More than you want to know" makes it all the more difficult, not less. A Google search returns 100,000 hits. Which page do you open? Traditional encyclopedias like The World Book introduce information and ideas at the level of complexity a child, a student, would encounter them in a classroom. Which approach do you think is likely to be more productive for an inexperienced reader?

    62. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was being generous with "quasi-fiction". Fairies and Gods are intended to be believed in, but I don't have enough faith in mankind to think they were invented by honest, well-intentioned people. Definitions be damned.

      If I wasn't generous, I'd say "lies intended to separate the flock from their money".

      Just because someone somewhere sincerely believes it doesn't mean it should be taken seriously.

      I was referring more to the pablum about neo-paganism, auras, and effective management...and I absolutely refuse to be conciliatory about it :)

      It is just my opinion: if you have a guardian angel say hi from me!

    63. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by iangoldby · · Score: 1

      Me: What does it say?
      Mom: It says, "9F D8 34 7B ..."


      You should think yourself lucky. I had someone coming to me for support once who seemed to find it impossible to just tell me what was on the screen verbatim. Every time I asked him what the error dialog said, he would paraphrase it in a way that said more about his (wildly incorrect) guesses about what had gone wrong than what was actually displayed in front of him. I ended up asking him to tell me the first word of the message displayed, then the second, ... I even got him to spell the second word to me when I realised he was giving me a word that doesn't appear in any of the error dialogs. We got there eventually. I think he just decided I was mentally retarded.

    64. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by geobeck · · Score: 1
      ...dial-up BBSes at 9600k...

      You had a BBS that served at 9.6 Mbps?! Wow! All I had was 2400 baud on my Hayes modem attached to my Commodore 64.

      (Cue the VIC 20/1200 baud users... now.)

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    65. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Misanthropy · · Score: 1

      Well, the experience I was referring to was in computer usage not techinical support.
      I have no experience in phone support so obviously I would not be very good at it.

    66. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Instead they'll say it sounds like the catalytic converter is overheating the timing belt on the radiator exhaust manifold piston

      Oh my god! That totally happened to my car, too!

    67. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by RonWhite · · Score: 1

      I'm a huge fan of David Macauley, but let me recommend a better book for telling people what computers do and how they do it. It's How Computers Work from Que Press (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0789734249/002-8 949151-7683258?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books& v=glance at Amazon. I've worked on it for 10 years, tapping some of the best brains in the industry. It's beautifully illustrated by Tim Downs, and it's sold more than 1 million copies. But don't take my biased word. Check it out at Amazon or Barnes & Noble. If you're into photography, there's How Digital Photography Works http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0789733099/002-89 49151-7683258?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v =glance. I'd seriously like to hear what you think, Ron White

    68. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Isaac-1 · · Score: 1

      What about when you take the car into the shop and you say, I think its the fuel pump. Get it back, and the problem is still there and your $160 poorer, take it back in again, and say I think its the fuel pump. They change the fuel filter, it runs better for a couple of days, then acts up again, you take it back and say I think its the fuel pump. They say it might be something else, you say "Change the fuel pump" they say but if its not that you will still have to pay for the new $450 fuel pump, you say fine. You come back to pick up the car and they say "it was the fuel pump"

    69. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by happyemoticon · · Score: 1

      That's pretty much true. What Cancel really means is, "Oops, I pressed the red X by mistake and now I'm going to lose my document." I think a notepad-like application that automatically saves, organizes and names data would be pretty cool. I mean, usually I'm just borrowing some code for the web, or grabbing a cheat sheet because I forgot a particular MySQL statement's syntax. Having to save and name documents is a pain in the ass either way: I loose my data and I have to click the stupid button, or I save it, but god knows I'll never be able to find it because the name I chose at random doesn't make sense.

      I was impressed when I went to shut down my iMac last night, and the dialog that came up was something like, "Do you really want to shut down? Your computer will automatically shut down if you do not respond in 1 minute 59 seconds." That accounts for the misclick and the case that I can't be bothered to look at the computer again. I don't know how many times I've tried to shut down my Dell, only to groggily trudge over to the computer, flick on the monitor, and find that it was asking me whether I wanted to save my notepad document, or worse yet, whether I REALLY, TRULY WANTED TO SHUT DOWN.

    70. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      I thought TCP/IP stood for Thieves Can Pirate (our) Intellectual Property!

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    71. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by jb.hl.com · · Score: 2, Funny

      That loud whooshing sound you hear is the joke flying straight over your head.

      --
      By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
    72. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Josh+Booth · · Score: 1

      The problem with what you outlined is that it goes far too deep across too many levels to be understood quickly. It would be much more effective for a lay person to understand the different components of a computer and how they interact. Such a book should be focused more on how to do different things and where to find them.

    73. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by dawhippersnapper · · Score: 1

      Might want to check Symantec Ghost Suite out, it lets you build AI packages that take snapshots of a computer before a setting, update, or program is installed, and a snapshot afterwards then lets the domain / network administrator roll out the updates to all computers with just a few clicks.

      --
      Freedom is fragile and must be protected. To sacrifice it, even as a temporary measure, is to betray it.
    74. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by nmos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that unless they are really well resourced they won't be able to do everything the users need doing in the timescales that are necessary.

      Well, it's pretty common to spend 5 minutes fixing the users reported problem and then the next hour or more fixing all the damage they did trying to fix it themselves.

      But worse still, in your effort to protect the unsophisticated users from themselves, you inevitably hamstring the more sophisticated users.

      I don't know if it works like this everywhere but often truly sophisticated users do tend to get some slack. The thing is the people who think they know what they are doing are the ones that cause 90% of the problems.

    75. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by sdpuppy · · Score: 1
      Go HEAVY on the mousing

      But if he gets into heavy mousing, he might have to rate his book "R"

      :-)

    76. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by mibus · · Score: 1

      You just had to go make me curious ;)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavision

    77. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok, so draw the distincton between teaching people what they can usefully know vs. enforcing a correct system administration policy.

      The problem with the "teach them nothing" idea is that unless you blindfold them and stuff their ears with cotton every moment of their lives -- and force the enterprising Helen Kellers of the world to wear boxing gloves -- the user will somewhere, at some time, pick up something that they'll want to try.

      Consider them contaminated at that point.

      In the case of a little dangerous knowledge, the only cure is a lot more *useful* knowledge. Once they know how to break it, you'll have to teach them either why breaking it is a bad idea, or how to fix it when they break it.

      I look at my attempts to educate users from the standpoint of being a user myself. No, not in the computer world. I'm talking about in the KITCHEN. Alton Brown is the most influencial reason why I can boil water without burning it, and my cuisine, though not fancy, has improved in taste dramatically since I began to understand how food chemistry works and why food can taste good.

    78. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      To see OS X crash, I would have to have a machine that OS X will run on.

      While I have a four foot tall pile of pizza-box Sun workstations, a pair of SGI systems, and also quite a few Apple Macintoshes, I don't have a machine that OS X will run on. I don't want to pay the 'full retail at the Apple Store' tax.

      I recently got a CD set of NextStep, including the developer tools, for the PA-RISC hardware and have a fine candidate of an HP machine to install it on, so I might see the better ancestor of OS X sometime soon.

      I've run Darwin on my Beige G3, but it's nothing special. And AUX on my Quadra 650. Interesting, but again, nothing special.

      As to people understanding computers: there's nothing motivating people to 'dig deeper' in a computer anymore. Computers are used to reach out, because the connectivity is so much better. Back when 'Personal Computers' started you had a prompt to stare at and it was up to you to make it do more, and doing so involved figuring out how it works.

    79. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Shadarr · · Score: 1

      The majority of people wouldn't get the joke because they've never had an OSX not crash, either.

    80. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by hobbit · · Score: 1

      If I had my druthers I'd go with something like, "Save/Don't Save/Back"
      Save and exit / Discard and exit / Don't exit.
      (with a second warning that comes up if you hit Don't Save)
      Asking the same question twice in a row just trains the user to click "Yes, I really mean it" without reading dialogs.

      --
      "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
    81. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Haydn+Fenton · · Score: 1

      I think for a book which is meant to teach computers to someone with the computer literacy of youre average grandma, that kind of thing is way too detail heavy and technical. Why would they need to know OSI models, ASM commands and logic circuits? That's what geeks go to college for (although a real geek already knows most of it anyway, and spends all their time reading stuff that they'll "learn about" in another few years time).

      What the layman wants to know is the basics; where, why and how do I create folders and files or maybe how it actually all works when it comes down to the hard drive - I'm not talking sectors, cluster sizes, boot sectors, bits, bytes, drive head seek times and whatnot. I mean telling them, in basic terms, what happens when they make a file:
      "It gets put onto the hard drive somewhere, then a record of the file is made to tell the computer where it is (this is also kept on the hard drive, in exactly the same place on every hard drive). Just like a school timetable tells the student where his lessons are (and is always stuck outside the Head's office), the computers file record (or a 'File Allocation Table') tells the computer where the files are. When you browse through folders it looks at its FAT and shows you the files that are there. When you open the file, it looks at its FAT, finds out where the file is and then gets it, just like a student walking into his class after he has found out what lesson he has next."
      That kind of thing (yeah it's not the greatest explanation, in fact it's pretty crap), just something they can relate to. Not a face full of technical mumbo jumbo they don't understand at all.

      As for string theory without the maths behind it all, I would highly recommend The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene. It's basically all about relativity, string theory, M-theory, extra dimensions, black holes, that kind of thing (mainly string theory), with NONE of the nasty maths. Lots of good analogies and diagrams, sometimes things are even explained in multiple ways just in case it's a little confusing.

    82. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by i8puppies · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I agree,
      Give them a desktop with 4 or 5 icons on it (email, internet, office, files, shutdown) and they will be happy forever. Hide them from all the stuff under the hood. If they want to know more then they will go out and discover it on their own.

      Hide them from the bells and whistles. The fact that my grandma can hit the start menu, poke around, and then call me an hour later telling me her computer won't start anymore scares me (it doesn't anymore though because I got her fixed up with the configuration I just mentioned above), and I'm sure for most of us who have done tech support that this is the case that is also the most likely to happen.

      What do everyday people need to know about computers? Nothing. The idea of the "computer" needs to be transparent to them; they should only see a "familiar tool" . My mom doesn't need to know anything about computers other than I do similarly about cars. I get in it to go places and I put in gas to make it not die. THATS ALL. If anything goes wrong I take it to a friend or a repair shop and let them do the "magic" and then I happily go on my way none the wiser.

      If you're really going to do this book then I suggest that you hide the bells and whistles (complex settings, geek speak, etc) from them because it will end up confusing them. You need only imagine yourself as doing tech support when you say to someone "Ok, use the mouse and click the 'X' in the upper right hand corner" to be shortly told "I am and nothings happening" and then you spend the next 3 minutes figuring out that they were right-clicking and not left-clicking. The layperson's reasoning for computers is different than what a geek's is, meaning you need to revert to the basics: short sentences and very few "new words".

      Also, plan for the future. Think of the young people who live on modding their mySpace accounts and whatnot. My sister can work a computer just fine but she is no where NEAR a geek, infact she is quite the opposite. When doing tech support I always heard people saying "My 10 year old knows how to work this thing better than I do." The layperson of today is not the layperson of tomorrow. If you're going to explain things in a book then make sure that you do only the basics (and draw the line there). If people need to know more then they will naturally grow curious and go off and find things out on their own, otherwise why waste your breath?

    83. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh great...now they are letting misanthropic people into medical school...

    84. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Liam+Slider · · Score: 1

      You know what....people like you are actually part of the problem that exists today with computer users.

    85. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by tombeard · · Score: 1

      I'll second that. Most of my career I have been an engineer, but I once spent 18 months running an SNA network. I had to talk secretaries through installing token ring / frame relay adapters or configuring a 3174. It was hell at first, but now I can talk my mother-in-law through just about any problem. She is still struggling with the concept of the Enter key.

      --
      The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
    86. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by blight973 · · Score: 1

      I think that was stated quite eloquently. I am used to people who want to learn and those who are interested only because they get a day away from the office. I have found that there is a certain percentage of the population who no matter how much you work with them will never see the CD-Rom drive for anything more than a cup holder. (See previous posts) But I have also found that there are some people who will actually take the time to try to learn and 'try' to remember what you tell them, 'IF' you are patient with them and don't get frustrated with the fact that they can't understand the acronyms you are using around them. The short and sweet of it is, most computer people have a nasty habit of looking down on people who don't have their level of competence. Don't get snippy with people who ask for your guidence, get snippy with those who demand your competence.

    87. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because IT geeks are employed for the specific purpose of teaching basic skills, there is an inherent conflict of interest when IT or any other geeks try to teach users anything. If we teach well, we are out of a job. If we teach badly, we'll be fired for doing a bad job. The tradition has been to teach people just badly enough to maintain a status-quo and a paycheck. The same is true for so many teachers. So I have a question: How do you all suppose we can break such a vicious cycle?

    88. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by kurtras · · Score: 1

      Agreed. This can become a serious problem, and frankly it smacks of egocentrism on the part of IT staff. The "user-presumed-guilty" mentality makes it very difficult for anyone to get anything done.

      There isn't even a logical basis for it. If you have Ghost (or whatever else) images for your stock configurations, then if a user screws up their machine, you reimage it and you're done. Better yet, set something to work over the network with PXE, so all you have to do is reboot and tell the machine to boot from the network, and poof, it's reimaged.

      It's all politics, really.

      -Kurt

    89. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Yes you learn to say things just right like, "press the enter key" vs type d i r enter. Just to keep them from typing d i r e n t e r.
      It is a skill and as I said the problem is that unless you have done it yourself you will never notice a good one. Your problem will just seem like a simple one.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    90. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Glonoinha · · Score: 1

      ... people should be able to ...

      To quote Tommy Lee Jones :
      A person is smart.
      People are dumb.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    91. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by jZnat · · Score: 1

      I remember the reasoning behind people trusting him was that he would give an outright bullshit reason for any problem they had, so they would do whatever possible to fix it.

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
    92. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by margaret · · Score: 1

      That reminds me: One thing that should definitely be covered is the 3-way "Save file" dialog that comes up when exiting a program/shutting down, and similar dialogs, that offer "Yes", "No", and "Cancel". This confuses the heck out of many users, and it's not reasonable to expect them to figure it out on their own unless they're geeks. They need to know that "Cancel" is a sure-fire way to get nothing done and be back where they started, and that they need to click "No" if they want to continue exiting the program but don't want to save the file.

      Which I guess is why the Mac exiting dialog box says "save", "don't save" and "cancel."

      I think I read somewhere that it's better UI design to have verbs on the buttons instead of yes and no...

    93. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Scootesti · · Score: 1

      I'm currently sitting in a Dell Call Center, and for the most part even the dumbest end user can be helped with the right steps. My only ammendment is;

      As long as they can read.

      There's nothing worse, or very few things from a CSP point of view worse than walking someone through an OS reinstallation when they can't read 75% of what's on their screen.

      Then again if we're talking about a book, I guess we don't have to gear it towards those types of people, unless of course this is going to be a 'book on tape'. Hey, now there's an idea...

      --
      "So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet
    94. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by dingDaShan · · Score: 1

      Actually, the program that you wanted can be installed with such a setup. I attend the university of michigan and they have a similar setup there. You can install anything you want (so long as a restart is not needed) and it is cleared away upon a user's logoff. Simple.

    95. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by (-hrair-) · · Score: 1
      Wow! I learned so much from that! I had been wondering why weird smoke had been coming out of my computer everytime I booted Windows XP. It must be really magical. Gee, Billy Gates must be a genie or something. Cause all his programs make even more magical smoke billow out of my computer! Gosh, I'm so glad that you taught me all about my computer. I was beggining to think that the smoke was a problem...



      (-hrair-)

      --
      Beware of the shining wires...
    96. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by CristalShandaLear · · Score: 1

      Maybe i'm a cynic but I believe that most people don't care about computers for the same reason they don't care about anything else. The average layperson isn't curious at all! Slashdot is full of nerds. We read about nanobots, particle physics, and GPL drafts in our spare time. Besides, when's the last time an average person has read a book?

      You and all the people like you, especially the ones who mod this crap +4 Insightful need to get out of mom's basement and actually go meet an "average person".

      It was only in desperation that I found Slashdot. I was using MS Word on Win98 SE back in the '90's when the damn thing BSOD'd simply because I moved a stupid text box from point A to point B.

      I realized that there had to be a better way to do whatever I was doing and in extreme frustration I typed "Microsoft Sux" into Google and the first search return was a post here at Slashdot. I registered and have been here ever since.

      At that point in time I didn't know I was using Word on Win 98 or what BSOD meant (yeah, imagine being that clueless). But even then, I knew that moving a text box couldn't possibly be "illegal" and that maybe, just maybe, I didn't know much, but I could learn.

      And I did. I humbled myself and asked questions of kids and teenagers, I bugged everyone under the age of 25 on my favorite Harry Potter message board and talked to their friends and chatted all my questions away. I asked questions, I read Slashdot cross refereneced with Wikipedia every day until what seemed like Japanese but was really just "geek English" finally started to make sense.

      Yes, it was curiosity, but it was also the willingness of those to help a clueless end user like me that kept me going. I do not now and have never seen that willingness on Slashdot. One thing you can always count on here is Jill and Joe Sixpack bashing which is more acceptable and prevalent that bashing Microsoft.

      Slashdot, I implore you. Get off your collective geek asses, take a few clueless end users under your wing and help. Don't give me that crap about "can't afford to support" and "I dont' have the time" and "they'll never get it or care anyway". Those are excuses and idiotic ones at that. Trite but true: If you're not a part of the solution then you're definitely a part of the mothafuckin' problem.

    97. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by jannesha · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What I find useful is to say, "Look at the menus, and see if there's something like 'options' or 'preferences', yeah, ok, click on that, now look for something like..."

      So long as you realize what you are filtering out, or zeroing in on, and can put it into plain language, even a novice user realizes what you are looking for, and can learn your thought processes by experiencing them.

      Or, that's my theory, at least!

    98. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Associate · · Score: 1
      Windows has become unstable. Roll for damage.
      --
      Someone hates these cans.
    99. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by koreaman · · Score: 1

      My point isn't that they were invented by well-meaning people. My point is that they were written for people who believe them to be true, or for the purpose of cocnvincing non-believers that they're true.

    100. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      You: "OK, there should be a bunch of random text at the top, with the letters A through F and the numbers 0 through 9. Ignore that part; we're looking for the first line below all the random text that has actual words in it. Read me that line."

      That's my problem. If you show me a Windows 9x series bluescreen, or a Windows NT series bluescreen, or an illegal operation dialog, or a Windows XP friendly error dialog, or a Linux kernel panic, or whatever, I can look at it in half a second and tell you what the problem is. But how am I supposed to remember over the phone that the hex dump is at the top and the error's below it? I thought the hex dump was at the bottom, and the error was to the right of the hex error code (which isn't quite a "bunch"); am I wrong? I can do stuff in Control Panel in person in half a second, but over the phone I probably won't even remember how to launch Control Panel. It's too much subconscious training of where to click and too little conscious knowledge of each menu.

    101. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Phleg · · Score: 1

      Maybe an easy to use version of "system restore" would give people the nerve to try some things, and if whatever they try fails: just push some reset button and a default OS magically respawns. Fear of doing something wrong again after a bad experience with computers stops a lot of people from learning more about them.
      This is self-defeating. I agree, in that all I know about computers today I learned by seriously screwing shit up, and figuring out how to fix it. But providing a "reset button" only encourages people to hit the button and go back to the default, "safe" configuration. No experimenting, no toying around. Something broken? Reset it back.
      --
      No comment.
    102. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by UnrefinedLayman · · Score: 0

      That's part of the point I'm trying to make: you're not cut out for support (and I hope you don't take offense from that). Support is a relationship that requires certain things to work fluidly and well.

      Reality, of course, often dictates that technical people are placed in positions of having to support others professionally and privately when it's not an ideal place for them to be. It's not very different from people who don't work well with others being put in supervisory positions, people who work well in person being put on the phones, or people who learn from conversation being stuck in a room with a book. They're just skills.

    103. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by kv9 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Slashdot, I implore you. Get off your collective geek asses, take a few clueless end users under your wing and help.

      you got a lot of nerve to ask that from a bunch of mostly self-taught persons. there is a wonderful feeling of accomplishment when you figure out something for yourself, and i cant help wondering why people need constant hand-holding for everything computer related.

      all the information you need is right there at your fingertips. if you `have better things to do with your time than dig around' maybe you should take a course. someone will teach you all this magic stuff.

      You and all the people like you, especially the ones who mod this crap +4 Insightful need to get out of mom's basement and actually go meet an "average person".

      you and all the average people like you, that dont get any mod points, need to stop *demanding* free advice from the basement dwellers and actually go figure out some shit for yourselves.

      i know this might sound flamish, but you are not *entitled* to anything, and especially you cant expect people to take you seriously for pissing and moaning that you got flamed/rejected/whatever by whoever.

      also, geeks like challenges. of course they will not jump right out of their chair when you ask them to help you figure out why windows BSODs. but try to get help with troubleshooting some funky netboot process or a pesky router console and see how that goes.

      you know, its weird how all these `socially skilled outgoing average persons' have the most problems relating to different kinds of people.

      --EORANT
    104. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by LordMyren · · Score: 1

      Let them think the tiny god could become angry with them if they browse the wrong folders, or tamper with the holy configurations.

      Ok, once upon a time I had a Mage: The Awakening character (whitewolf pen and paper rpg) who was a technopagan. His watercooling ran on blood, he fed the spirits of electricity regularly, and had a wall of fire to keep the malicious Windows spirits far far away.

      But I'm thinking I might have to port some of these jokes into the real world now. I never saw the real world applications; but man, that shit would work!

      sincerely,
      your newly paganed Technomagus,
      Myren

    105. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by zCyl · · Score: 1

      Frankly, I am more and more coming to this point of view, as far as users are concerned. Let them think the tiny god could become angry with them if they browse the wrong folders, or tamper with the holy configurations.

      You can't teach them enough to be fully competent. If you teach them a little, you just make them dangerous, able to screw up on a much more profound level.


      This reminds me of the reasoning behind the prime directive...

    106. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by WhyCause · · Score: 1

      You've hit the nail on the head, here (at least in my experience).

      I used to teach the mechanical engineering freshman computer class at my undergraduate institution. I would frequently respond to questions with, "I don't know, let's look here to see if we can find it..." The fact that I, the great and powerful Oz, did not immediately know how to do everything really opened their eyes. In fact, the whole time I tried to teach them to look for patterns in the UI that they could recognize, and thus use to their benefit.

      Of course, the first thing I told them on day one was, "don't worry about trying something. There's nothing you can do to these computers that I can't fix." While a little egotistic, it removed one of the largest barriers to learning I saw; the fear that you'll f*ck things up. Once that fear is gone, people really begin to try and do things on their own, which is truly the only way to learn. Of course, I'd never put that bit of advice in a book (oh, think of the calls).

    107. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by rhendershot · · Score: 1

      >>most people don't care about computers for the same reason they don't care about anything else.

      Ain't that the truth. ex. Some ppl I know asked me for help with MediaPipes, IIRC. Looking over the run regkey and whatnot, one thing led to another and a little conversation and I became aware they had Kazaa installed. So I mentioned "you know, pretty much all that downloaded music is pretty basically illegal". I didn't want to confuse the conversation at that point with mention of independant music, but I digress. So I'm told "well it's worked for a long time and we've been able to do it for awhile...".

      So to the article submittor; I think your job is going to be quite harder than you realize. There are so many levels of education, context and curiousity.

      As well, quite often it isn't that there isn't any book on a topic, but that there are so many books all coming from different angles that it gets hard to chose.

      But good luck, anyway.

    108. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by DocOmega · · Score: 0
      You can't teach them enough to be fully competent. If you teach them a little, you just make them dangerous, able to screw up on a much more profound level.

      Obligatory quote time.

      A little learning is a dangerous thing;
      Drink deep, or taste not of the Pierian spring;
      There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
      And drinking largely sobers us again.
      - Alexander Pope

      Any door you open, be sure to fully explain what is beyond. If you don't, the users will trash everything and thank you not.

      --
      Meh
    109. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      How many magzines or noewspapers would equal a book? How many forms filled out or website might equal a book? How many manunals equal a book?

      I ask because I can honestly say I havn't read a book from start to finish since highschool. On average I review and comment on a little under 200 forms a week, read around 10-20 tech manuals a month and spend hours upon hours doing research on the internet constsantly. Would any of this equate to reading a book? Am I still considered pseudo-literate or am I making an ass of myself right now?

    110. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by paran0rmal · · Score: 1

      Interesting what you said about your father looking up answers in wikipedia as he's watching TV. This also works beautifully for drunken debates at parties. I've bookmarked wikipedia on my phone, and every time someone argues over whether Dido is a member of Faithless or the word Mafia is an actually an acronym, and things start getting a bit heavy, you just look it up and everyone is happy in about 1 minute flat.

      By the way, she's not, and it might be.

    111. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by misterbond · · Score: 1

      [RANT] I agree, It is the most annoying thing that you ever see in the world of IT, 'no no don't let the user play with my toys'. Jees people wake up and smell your coffee, IT is a service. Provided to HELP the users do their jobs more effectivly. Whilst I agree that some level of control is required to maintain network security and data integrity the whole point is to make sure that the people in the company that actually make money have the tools and service that allows them to do their jobs effectivly so that the company can pay you! [/RANT] As far as the book goes I suggest that very little history needs to be included , just make sure that a couple of the interesting tit-bits get sprinkled around in the obvious places and make sure that you reference you sources at the back (and possibly at the end of the chapter) so that if pople want to find out more they can. This might just be the major part of the book. Do your reaserch on the best current books and websites to make sure that these are included. Ensure a consistant theme that you can also put onto a website to make the reader / user feel at home when they finaly join the online community. Just a few thoughts. A.

    112. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by munpfazy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >This also works beautifully
      >for drunken debates at parties.

      Just remember to restore the page to it's original state after you've collected on the bet.

    113. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      For those that don't get the joke, what he describes is exactly how MacOS X deals with the blue screen problem.

      I have never heard of a "blue screen problem" before now.

      I'm sure Steve Jobs scrutinized every pixel of that in countless meetings, screamed at at least one employee who didn't quite get it right, and finally, well, he has the prettiest crash message that exists, yes, in five different languages.

      He probably paid one of his developers to do that. Has Microsoft hired someone yet to display a meaningful error message when their OS crashes? Or do they still turn the screen blue and dump a bunch of hex characters?

      As long as it's not you he's screaming at ... you have to admire Steve. He really does care about these things. I'm a big Steve fan because I love the fact that he worked super-hard to create an environment with this kind of thought and atention to detail.

      Why would he scream at me? Ha, I haven't met him yet, but he should get along fine with my hippie self. Yes, Apple has some of the finest attention to detail of any electronics company. Both at the software and hardware level. In fact, they have blurred the line between the two. The kernel panic I was talking about in OS X has to have a hook into the hardware, because the kernel is locked. I guess the image is either preloaded into the video card's memory, and their must be a ROM or some chip like a "watchdog" thing that pings the kernel from time to time, and if it does not answer, it dumps the screen.

      I've only seen the screen a couple of times when there was a bug in their wireless driver, and the driver would crash when _not_ using the wireless LAN and you had the ethernet cable plugged in when you booted your machine. Very frustrating, the fix before the patch came out was to let the machine boot, and then plug in the ethernet.

      Don't put bad memory in your G5 :-(.

      Why would anybody do a thing like that? I love it now that operating systems are basically stable. It makes troubleshooting so much easier. If the machine crashes, something must be wrong with the hardware. Pretty simple, eh?

    114. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by l0b0 · · Score: 1
      One thing that should definitely be covered is the 3-way "Save file" dialog that comes up when exiting a program/shutting down, and similar dialogs, that offer "Yes", "No", and "Cancel".

      Which reminds me of #2 in the list of Ten Most Wanted Design Bugs, which proposes to "[c]onvert your existing software and write new software to perform Continuous Save, so users cannot lose more than the last few characters typed or gestures entered." Even better, include some Dead Simple Versioning, where the user creates some kind of "milestone" in the history to be able to revert any time. As a bonus, create an automatic milestone every time the application quits. No more saves!

    115. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Er... so I should spend the 1st 15 minutes of every day at work re-installing the same software? I don't think so...

    116. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Daengbo · · Score: 1

      About two years ago in a Knoppix related story here on slashdot, somebody who ran an internet cafe in Europe used Knoppix on his server with thin clients PXE booted from it. Everything in the place was diskless (my guess is that the amount of RAM in the shop was huge, though). When they pulled the plug every night, no trace remained of who had browsed or what they had seen. I thought that the idea had a certain elegance in the privacy realm.

    117. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BAH! All people should use Linux and work from the commandline, configuring the system and all. We should all use Slackware. You're a worthless human being if you can't deploy, configure, update, install software, and hack the kernel binary in Slackware. That's what's wrong with your mother. She doesn't know Slackware well enough.

      And we should all speak BINARY, not hex. So you're still cool...

    118. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen a lot of blue screens and have never seen what your describing.
      The text appears first for example:
      A fatal exception 0E has occurred at 0028: in VxD VMM(06) + .
      Followed by a Hex dump.
      The above is a Win95 error and all subsequent Microsoft OS's have followed the same pattern. In other words the best clue to the problem is on the first line followed by what appears to be random text, not the other way around.

    119. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      Google is pretty good in its rankings, I'd suggest picking one out of the top five.

      An example: suppose I want to learn how my car's transmission works. I go into Google and type "how does manual transmission work". It returns 6 million plus hits. Fine -- but that's irrelevant, everything I want is in the top five or ten results.

      The top two hits are both from HowStuffWorks (and are pages within the same excellent article), the next two are from Edmunds and are fairly good, and then one from AnswerBag. There's probably more than enough to satisfy my curiosity right there.

      The fact that there are six million results returned to the query is irrelevant. Although I've not seen published statistics, I would bet that the number of people who even click through to the second page of results from a query is fairly small, and declines all the time as the engines get better. Anyone who's used Google (or one of its predecessors) more than a handful of times knows that it's possible to get millions of results, but that generally you can tell if your query was good by looking at the top few. If they're not relating to what you searched for, then you probably need to re-enter your terms and try again.

      Having a lot of information out there is a strength, not a weakness, as long as it's searchable and organized. Personally I feel that something like Wikipedia (say what you will about its accuracy on controversial topics; I wouldn't recommend it for that anyway) with its plethora of links that allow a person to jump from one article to the next, has strengths which greatly outweigh the risk of overwhelming the user with information, and put it miles ahead of a paper encyclopedia. Just in terms of the effort involved (typing a query into a toolbar versus getting a book off a shelf, looking through it, etc.) to say nothing of the expense (who can afford a whole paper encyclopedia in their home, anyway?), I believe puts the internet ahead of other resources for casual information browsing.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    120. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      Actually the reason my father had Wikipedia bookmarked was because it had been used to end a few vicious dinner-table debates over the holidays. I don't think anyone ever thought of just going in and editing it... (Actually I'm not sure that my family has realized that they can edit Wikipedia. I should probably clue them in sometime.)

      My father also seems to like the IMDB, mostly because it lets you search for a movie, click on an actor, and get a list of everything else they've been in. This to me is just a sign that sometimes it's not even the information, but the presentation / indexing that's most important.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    121. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by VShael · · Score: 1

      True story, there was an Irish software company which went by the name "Magic Blue Smoke" for that very reason.

    122. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1
      ...if only IT would drop their one-size-fits-all policy and give trust where trust is due.

      It's not a matter of not trusting. It's a matter of responsibility and consequences. The responsibility for making things work falls on IT. No matter what input to the system causes it to fail, the consequences fall on ITs head. Controlling the inputs is the only way to make sure that if I suffer bad consequences, I am doing so justly.

      That's not to say that some customers aren't different. In my organization, there are substantial legal penalties for screwing some things up, so we're very careful. Nevertheless, there are situations where autonomy is needed. Developers support themselves but when they need to do something radical, they aren't on the corp lan. Some people absolutely require complete freedom to do as they please for creative or investigative reasons. Those folks get a stand-alone workstation that's air-gapped from the rest of the organization.

      As for other folks who want a tool to make their jobs easier, we have a service agreement with their big bosses. Exhaustive studies, constantly updated, have resulted in a continuing agreement detailing with great specificity exactly what tools are required to do the job. If a grunt feels differently, he's directly contradicting his own chain of command and there's a much bigger problem going on than an obstructionist IT staff. If he can get his bosses to approve, then we'll test and deploy the tool to everyone but nobody who shares their job title with 5000 other employees is so special that they need to install their own unique tools.

    123. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by phlinn · · Score: 1

      There's an excellent program the School District I work for uses called DeepFreeze. Any time you reboot, any and all changes since the last reboot are undone. It's incredibly useful in labs, and allows us to enable admin access for users if we want.

      --
      "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
    124. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      I don't have a machine that OS X will run on. I don't want to pay the 'full retail at the Apple Store' tax.

      Man, get a job and pay $500 and get a mini and hook it up to one of your monitors. You will be pleasantly suprised.

      Back when 'Personal Computers' started you had a prompt to stare at and it was up to you to make it do more, and doing so involved figuring out how it works.

      Now most people turn on their computer, and see a 'Start' menu. If they figure out how to launch internet explorer and find google.com they can then search for 'Windows Start menu', and get googlebombed worthless information on what to do. You get things like http://www.winguides.com/registry/category.php/16/ , and then usiful information like from the Windows Pop-up Start Menu, or even on the third link, cryptic stuff like:

      By simulating the pressing of the "Windows" menu - or better yet, of the Ctrl-Escape key combination, which also works on older keyboards - you can programmatically bring up the Start menu. You can't use the SendKeys function to do so, though, and you have to resort to the keybd_event API function:
      Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _
              ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwFlags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long)
      Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2

      ' Press the Ctrl-Esc key
      keybd_event vbKeyControl, 0, 0, 0
      keybd_event vbKeyEscape, 0, 0, 0
      DoEvents

      ' Release the two keys
      keybd_event vbKeyControl, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0
      keybd_event vbKeyEscape, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0
      DoEvents


      So, we have all learned that Windows starts and ends about the same. Fun.

    125. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, to make a user adept but not dangerous the user has to undergo a series of computer problem torture tests. Give them a computer a list of instructions that, once completed, cause the computer to crash. And lock them in this soundproof, well lit room (without a window) until they fix it.

      After that, the user will think twice about the phrase "I wounder what this will do?!"

      On a more realistic note, if a book was written I would love a few things to be included:

      1. The difference between downloading a file and installing a program (this just annoys me greatly).
      2. The computer 99% of the time is not the monitor! Don't turn off the monitor and tell me the computer is off!
      3. Eveyrthing happens in a particular order. If you are on the phone with a technician listen to them and do only what they tell you, do not try to work ahead!
      4. What Windows Update is and why they should install the patches.
      5. The back screen with the white typing is NOT UNIX/LINUX.
      6. Do not just turn off the PC, use the shutdown command unless the computer is frozen.
      7. Being frozen is not deturmined by touching the computer (or monitor) to see if it is cold. (This has happened a few times).
      8. Most technicians have learned their trade by fixing their screwups. Reading a book will not empower you to be the guru of all things PC, you will break it, and when you do, you need to try to fix it yourself before calling anyone... that is how you learn.
      9. When calling your family members for computer help, start the conversation like a real person, ask how they are and if they are busy, tell them you need computer help and don't get mad if they are not able to help you at that exact moment in time.
      10. Back up your important stuff, back up your important stuff, back up your important stuff.

      Well, that is 10 things I would like to see in a book for real PC newbies.

      Oh and one more thing for the new windows user... do not delete any files from the windows directory, or the program files directory... you will be sorry, eventually.

    126. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Demerara · · Score: 1

      The problem is, there is no way you can teach experience.

      That's it in a nutshell. And it's not just our beloved grey-haired parents. I worked for Ericsson many moons ago as Technical Training co-ordinator. At one point we were planning a significant intake of new software designers, most of whom would be CS or Telecomms graduates. We had to give them the Ericsson curriculum but time was tight.

      One particularly dim-witted department head actually asked me (and I quote) "is there 5-week training course you can deliver which will give these guys two years experience". Yeah, sure, just pop yourself in the training microwave oven and cook on high...

      --
      Backward%20compatibility%20is%20over-rated
    127. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by techno-vampire · · Score: 1
      Am I still considered pseudo-literate or am I making an ass of myself right now?

      Neither, of course. You read the equvalent of several books a month as well you know.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    128. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or trust... A lot of networks are set up so that only the IT staff are administrators on the network and local machine. This being the case, users cannot typically be granted any kind of admin access on a machine without granting them access on the network level. This waves goodbye to security faster than you can picture a terabyte of data in fileshares being wiped off a RAID array. Either that, or Joe Iknowwhatimdoing uses admin access to browse the web and manages to infect the entire network of over 300 systems with DLoader and Alchemy. It seems to me that people that have problems with IT staff being the only people with full access have 1 of 2 problems.. ego, or a ludicrously inefficient IT department.

    129. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Personally I think the internet is very slowly beginning to change that. When you have immediate access to information on practially anything -- and especially technical topics -- it becomes a lot less painful to fulfill that momentary impulse to learn. You don't have to go to a library, you don't have to find an expert, and you can read as much or as little as you like. "More than you want to know about just about anything" is just a HowStuffWorks, Wikipedia, or Google query away.

      Yes, yes, yes. Truer words were never spoken, and so on. That is usually my pitch for Wikipedia; I've never been more curious about obscure topics than now.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    130. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Which I guess is why the Mac exiting dialog box says "save", "don't save" and "cancel."

      I think I read somewhere that it's better UI design to have verbs on the buttons instead of yes and no...


      Um, yes, the Apple HIG say that. Duh! ;)

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    131. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      To see OS X crash, I would have to have a machine that OS X will run on.

      Never fear, I'm sure there are a number of guys working hard on radically increasing the number of machines that run OS iX to every current x86 machine. ;) And considering the hardware compatibility problems that will ensue you're sure to see the multi-language screen of death ever so often. :)

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    132. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Nephilium · · Score: 1

      Right, I'll get right on giving users the ability to install new applications that I'm told "they need to do their jobs", as soon as you can educate all the users how not to install those other *necessary* apps such as CoolWebSearch, and 5000 smileys, and New.Net. Until you do that, how about I not let them install things on their machines?

      I will gladly help them get what they actually *need* to do their jobs, most of those requests take under half an hour...

      Nephilium

    133. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by kurtras · · Score: 1

      "users cannot typically be granted any kind of admin access on a machine without granting them access on the network level"

      Not so...I have set up Windows machines several times such that domain users (who do not have Administrator privs on the domain) have local Administrator access on their own machine. It's an ideal solution for more technically aware users, who can be trusted to install their own software.

      As to someone infecting machines on the inside, well, that's a matter of network design. You have to plan not only for threats from the outside, but also for threats from the inside.

      Finally, "ludicrously inefficient IT department[s]" are the norm rather than the exception. Unfortunate fact of life.

      -Kurt

    134. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Kesch · · Score: 1

      Ahh... reminds me of the time I manually edited my boot.ini file(Don't make me explain). That was a fun day. I knew how to fix it, but the real fun was trying to fix it using the overly restrictive windows recovery console. My eventual workaround required a floppy and a second machine. IMHO the best way to maintain a computer is to keep another computer near it so you can google what the hell just happened to your original machine.

      --
      If this signature is witty enough, maybe somebody will like me.
    135. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Man, get a job and pay $500 and get a mini and hook it up to one of your monitors. You will be pleasantly suprised.

      I definitely have different priorities than you. $500 would buy a number of useful pieces of test equipment, or a lot of other things. More technical manuals, etc. I definitely wouldn't sink that into a tiny sealed-box Mac. If I want the sealed-box Mac experience I can boot up my SE/30.

      Real Unix rocks, btw, esp. when you run it on real Unix hardware.

    136. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think we speak at cross-purposes: I wasn't under the impression that they were intended to be viewed as fiction (hell, the bible was supposed to be a geology and biology textbook), nor was I under the impression that these books are coincidentally misfiled in every shop I go in.

      I was expressing my opinion through wilful and knowing misuse of language. I distinguish fad diets from referenced histories. But really, I do know that some people would believe them in the opposite order to myself. I would never condone the burning of books: authors on the other hand... ;)

      There are books that are neither true, nor fiction: and some of them lie about it. Sadly, I do live at the turn of the century, and that's the stage western society is at.

      It was an aside, don't worry about it.

    137. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basically all the morrons posting crap on /. have probably never seen, much less understood, a Windows blue screen error.

    138. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Druegan · · Score: 1
      The problem is, there is no way you can teach experience. In a way that's good because if you could, most of us'd be out of a job. But in situations like this, is damn inconvenient.

      Although this *might* be a touch off-topic, Experience actually could be taught, but it'd probably be a real pain in the ass. The key would be using a training method that would establish those "junk filters" in a shorter period of time.

      The classic Windows "Blue Screen of Death" is a perfect example. Simply expose a person to that screen enough times and challenge their recall on the important bits. They will quickly gain a "BSOD Junk Filter." All you have to do to make reality into a teaching tool is to cut down the time spent between "exposures".

      Also, most software has certain commonalities in the UI, including configuration menus and error messages. If one establishes a training method based upon those commonalities, then it should be fairly easily to build a "set" of junk filters in the non-geek individual. Sure, it won't make them any better at FIXING what's broken, but it might give them enough of a clue to make it less painful for the geek in their lives.

    139. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then the installed piece of software steps on some obscure registry setting. Now the machine is BSODing. You ask the user and they say, "I didn't do anything." Of course you didn't. Do you at least have all your files in your "My docs?" No. "How many folders on the "C:" drive!?! Ok. It'll take a day to extract and locate all your data (1.5gb of mp3s and porn JPGs) that is so very important to your daily work and about another half a day to rebiuld. "You're leaving for China tonight!?!" Call me when you get there with a shipping address and I'll ship you the laptop when it's done. No. I will not pack and ship everything else, you can carry that yourself.

      "Uh, HR? I've got a user's data recovered and it's got x-amount of porn and MP3s in it. What? No, it's not the nice kind but no children. Will you be calling him or should I? Hold the laptop and do nothing. OK, your call."

      - left on Friday, back Monday 6am, limo ride from the airport and asked not to let the door hit him in the ass on the way out 6:20am Monday. explaining this to your wife. priceless. - ..... more sofiticated users my ass......

      sig- long term tech, short term memory

    140. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by permaculture · · Score: 1

      Mod Parent up.

      We deployed Deepfreeze on our ~650 classroom PCs. Now we only have to reimage them when the hardware dies. Until then they take care of themselves.

      --
      Environmentalism is the new Victorianism. Everyone ties on a green corset and pretends we're virtuous.
    141. Re:More like where do you draw the line? by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      Me: [Sigh] Mother dearest, you reinstalled Windows, again, didn't you?

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
  2. After they know about computer internals... by towaz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How about... Norton internet security and Mcafee will cause them more problems then they fix. Windows XP firewall and a free virus checker like AVG will save them a lot of grief. A good spyware program (how I wish pack.google.com did not include norton) like ad-aware or spybot and how to use it, anyone offering you a million pounds over email are scammers.
    Stop using the web for free porn and crack sites (mostly if using ie) firefox and thunderbird replace the normal xp offerings well. You don't need a computer that is all singing and dancing just to use word and msn, or just buy a mac.
    Buying a centrino laptop doesn't give you magic access to the internet (legally), stop plugging in usb stuff without the drivers first; erm, and the cdrom is not a damn cup holder!
    use linux, openoffice ect...

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
    1. Re:After they know about computer internals... by gid13 · · Score: 1

      Free porn and crack sites can be used if you know what you're doing, but if you don't AT THE VERY LEAST know how to format and reinstall Windows it's not worth the risk.

      Adding to your singing and dancing comment, for the love of God stay away from any programs offering emoticons, custom cursors, or anything else similar.

      And much as I love Linux, I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone that the rest of your comment applies to. Well, maybe Ubuntu. :)

    2. Re:After they know about computer internals... by towaz · · Score: 1

      how I wish in a perfect world everyone would install linux, it's still a little way off; agreed though, ubuntu is very promising.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Voltaire
    3. Re:After they know about computer internals... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Basic networking is like an onion- it has many layers. The average user needs to have a good understanding of the difference between a client, a router, and a server- so they know who to call when their computer comes up with a weird error message. Beyond that, what you describe should do them, I recommend (works on a wide variety of systems) AVG, ZoneAlarm Free, AdAware, SpyBot, and as a backup, a copy of HijackThis! with strict instructions *not* to run it without professional opinion on what to delete and what *not* to delete. Curiously enough- I've got a package I update from time to time on my website that I call the AntiCyberTerrorism Toolkit- that containes 4 out of 5 of these programs.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    4. Re:After they know about computer internals... by codered82 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Google Pack will let you customize which programs are downloaded. The "Add or Remove" software link is at the very bottom-right under the "Download Google Pack" button. From there, you should be able to remove Norton or any other package you want to. I had no idea this existed. Thanks for sharing it, although I'm sure your intent was different.

      --
      History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
    5. Re:After they know about computer internals... by Traa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would leave all that stuff out because it is so 'today'. Every product you mentioned might help a user today, but unless they get updated with what the hip anti-malware program is 6 months from now their computer will be a mess again. Educating users about scams and malware in general should open their eyes and keep them open for years to come. My parents emailed me that they have been deleting emails from governament officials in Nigeria offering them money. Not because I taught them about 419 scams, but because I tought them about internet scams in general.

    6. Re:After they know about computer internals... by ajwitte · · Score: 1

      Networks are not like cakes.

      --
      chown -R us ~you/base
    7. Re:After they know about computer internals... by Stormwatch · · Score: 1
      A good spyware program
      Mind you, I'd rather have a good anti-spyware program...
    8. Re:After they know about computer internals... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Not all cakes have layers- but all onions do.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    9. Re:After they know about computer internals... by aesiamun · · Score: 1

      Onions smell, but my network doesn't.

      What am I doing wrong?

    10. Re:After they know about computer internals... by ultranaut · · Score: 1

      use linux, openoffice ect...

      brilliant! that should clear up all confusion on the average user's part.

    11. Re:After they know about computer internals... by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Lots of people don't want to rebuild their entire PC from scratch - they'd far rather it JFW.

      So Linux (or indeed any OS upgrade) is a no-go.

      And regarding the AV software - Books tend to be around a while. In two years' time AVG may have gone commercial, and made their product suck even more than Norton's. Better to emphasise the basics - get a half-decent product and update it regularly as old AV software is worse than useless.

    12. Re:After they know about computer internals... by smbarbour · · Score: 2, Funny

      Simple 5 step solution to converting someone to Linux (works best with a tower-style PC with available bays):

      1) Get a LiveCD of your favorite distro.
      2) Take a cheap CD-ROM drive and disable the eject mechanism (to disallow ejection of the LiveCD).
      3) Use the emergency eject buttom to place the LiveCD in the drive and close the tray.
      4) Place the CD-ROM drive into the machine (preferably where the user can't see it)
      5) Boot the machine and ensure that the CD will boot first.

      To upgrade the OS, simply repeat steps 1, 3, and 5.

      (This was funny, perhaps even practical. Laugh.)

    13. Re:After they know about computer internals... by lustforlike · · Score: 1

      Most USB stuff works just fine if you plug it in without installing the drivers. Some even require that you plug them in and let XP autodetect it before installing the proper drivers (in those cases, the correct advice would be to tell someone to read the installation guide since everyone seems to want to do things differently), but for a large number of devices, you never need install anything at all.

    14. Re:After they know about computer internals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does AVG still spam your email signatures? Because I would never use a program that abuses my computer in that way. How about avast! antivirus?

    15. Re:After they know about computer internals... by Krach42 · · Score: 1
      Not all cakes have layers- but all onions do.

      DONKEY: Oh, you both have layers. Oh. [Sniffs] You know, not everybody likes onions. Cake! Everybody loves cakes! Cakes have layers.

      SHREK: I don't care... what everyone likes. Ogres are not like cakes.

      DONKEY: You know what else everybody likes? Parfaits. Have you ever met a person, you say, "Let's get some parfait," they say, "Hell no, I don't like no parfait"? Parfaits are delicious.

      SHREK: No! You dense, irritating, miniature beast of burden! Ogres are like onions! End of story. Bye-bye. See ya later.


      It's one of my favorite scenes :)
      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
    16. Re:After they know about computer internals... by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1

      As easy way to teach users about general scams is to write a game where you simply have to click on a specific icon as much as possible. It's easy at first, but it gradually starts to create pop-ups that impede progress.

      There are some people that find this suggestion to be humourous - but I'm dead serious: Follow and distribute the following link - http://www.neopets.com/games/launch_game.phtml?gam e_id=204

      The actual game is here: http://www.neopets.com/games/advertattack.phtml

      Registration is recommended, but not required, to play the game.

  3. I got one by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 4, Funny

    "What does the general public think they understand, but really don't?"

    Women.

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    1. Re:I got one by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Oh that is easy. Take what is logical throw it out the window. But never tell them that.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:I got one by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      First you must accept that it's impossible... then your path will begin.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    3. Re:I got one by LegendLength · · Score: 1

      Take what is logical throw it out the window.

      But keep the nag system impeccable.

    4. Re:I got one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Women.

      What OS is that? Windows Millennium edition?

    5. Re:I got one by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      No way, no one thinks they understand women, not even women themselves.

  4. The "Any" key by VChris · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...joke isn't funny anymore.

    --


    The difference between reality and fantasy is a nice soundtrack.
    1. Re:The "Any" key by fracai · · Score: 1

      Precisely why it should be the name of such a book.

      People that know nothing about computers either don't think it's funny because they're looking for that key or they do think it's funny because they just found it.

      People that know about computers don't think it's funny because of the previous people asking for help to find it or telling repetitive jokes about it.

      Maybe "The Search for the Any Key - A Manual for the Computer Illiterate".

      I'm actually surprised this niche isn't filled by an Idiot guide, or similar.

      --
      -- i am jack's amusing sig file
    2. Re:The "Any" key by ipxodi · · Score: 1

      What about cupholder.exe ....?

      --
      load "windows7" ,8,1
    3. Re:The "Any" key by uncoveror · · Score: 1

      If anyone is still wondering where the any key is, wonder no more!

      --
      The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
    4. Re:The "Any" key by butterwise · · Score: 0

      ...joke isn't funny anymore.

      Yes, it's too close to home.

      --
      If a baby duck is a "duckling," why would anyone want to eat "dumplings?"
    5. Re:The "Any" key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it's too near the bone.

  5. First thing's first by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 5, Funny

    Design a mechanical arm that comes out from between the pages and stabs the reader in the face every time they confuse "memory" with "disk space." You'll be doing us all a great service.

    1. Re:First thing's first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that would be handy! I don't know how many times I told someone that the game/application they are trying to run isn't doing so well because they don't have enough memory, and their response is "But I'm only using 8 gigs out of my 120gig hard drive!"

    2. Re:First thing's first by operagost · · Score: 1
      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    3. Re:First thing's first by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've given up with that particular battle.
      Use it in context, when the user says "my computer has 40 giga bites of memory" I automatically replace with drive space.

      I can understand the general publics lack of understanding regarding computers, but its people in the industry that piss me off more.

      Case in point, one of my colleagues (developerish) was really baffled why the computer had 248mb of memory and assumed some sort of none standard memory stick.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    4. Re:First thing's first by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I went to a comuter show and someoen was selling new computers with a windows XP coperate edition and a cracked version of go back for the restore disk. They said the corp edition allowed them to test and evaluate the computer (demonstrational purposes).

      I started asking them about the computers and the sales lady though I was some average user who thinks it all smoke and magic inside the box. She was saying the cpu (computer itself) had a a gforce4 proccesor 80 gig of memory a 10-100k modem and they could UPLOAD Windows Office (?WinXP?) onto it for an extra $25.

      People have actualy taken the public's misunderstanding of computers and turned it into a selling point. Chances are, people call things the wrong way because it was presented to them by someone trying to scam them. I remember taking a computer to the shop to get a cdrom replaced once when I didn't have the time. The tech told me it needed a "plug and play card" because it is the reason the old cdrom quit (not because I spilled coffee (or beer) on it when I droped a cup.). I ended up spending $40 just to get my systems back and install a CDrom from somewere else myself.

    5. Re:First thing's first by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      You mean confusing "RAM" with "Disk space"? Disk space is computer memory. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_storage, for example.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    6. Re:First thing's first by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I recall an IT teacher (actually an English teacher seconded to the short-staffed IT department) at school explaining to the entire class that 'hard drives are made of ROM and RAM,' so I'm not entirely surprised people have problems understanding this sort of thing. I also recall a few years ago someone asking my 'how much megabyte' my computer had, and thinking I was computer illiterate when I asked what they meant (this was back when both hard disk and RAM sizes were measured in MB, so it wasn't obvious which they meant).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:First thing's first by voxel · · Score: 1



      You must be one of the people you are talking about, because I can install a CD rom faster than you can pack up your PC and drive it to a tech-shop. Guarenteed, even if your tech shop is only 2 blocks away. I will still win.

      --
      Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
    8. Re:First thing's first by crimson30 · · Score: 1

      I started asking them about the computers and the sales lady though I was some average user who thinks it all smoke and magic inside the box. She was saying the cpu (computer itself) had a a gforce4 proccesor 80 gig of memory a 10-100k modem and they could UPLOAD Windows Office (?WinXP?) onto it for an extra $25.

      Sweet. You should have asked her how much it would be for just the 80 gigs of memory.

      I can't shake the compulsion to play such games, much like when I'm asked for a "picture ID" and I slap down my military ID when I know they just want to see my driver's license (knowing full well it's often unsuitable because it lacks a signature). I guess I'm just a bastard.

    9. Re:First thing's first by JWtW · · Score: 1

      I'm replying in this thread, not because I condone stabbing people in the face, but because the subject line says what I what I was going to say: "First things first"

      In my opinion, the most important thing you could stress is why they need to know these things (and you'd better be a pretty crafty wordsmith). The automobile is a very close analogy to how people feel about their computers--it's just a vehicle. A convenience that will take them where they need to go to accomplish varied tasks.

      Most folks don't care how their car works, all they know is that they need to keep it filled with gas (keep current with the ISP payments), and follow the maintenance schedule (Windows Update handles that, right?). The analogy breaks down when there's an actual problem.

      When the car starts doing weird things, or loses it's zip, they take it to someone that knows how to fix it, and then it's all better again--nobody got hurt. When their computer starts doing weird things, or losing it's zip--they've already been compromised. At best, it's just spyware, at worst, they're a zombie, or their info is in the hands of some miscreant individual.

      I'm aware that this all belongs in the 'Security' chapter, but I feel that the basics of why they need to know is paramount. Or else you won't get their attention. It is just a vehicle, after all.....

      Good luck!

    10. Re:First thing's first by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you got me :)

      I didn't even realize I stole the term until you mentioned it. Mysterious IRC guy has actually added to the english language, it seems

    11. Re:First thing's first by jambarama · · Score: 1

      Excellent comment. It isn't just scammers though. I went to Best Buy the other day looking for a few things. First I was looking for a monitor, I just wanted the cheapest CRT clunker they had. The salesman looked me in the eye and told me that if I had a new computer I had to get a flat screen. I told him it was for an older computer and he said he wasn't sure if their $100 CRT would work with it.

      I've been told I needed 1gb+ ram to "run the internet." I've been told that I needed a 2gb flash drive because smaller ones fill up so fast I won't get any use out of them (this guy thought flash drives were like CDRs, write once). This is by guys who are supposed to know computers (I know they pay crud so they get a 17 year old PFY who doesn't understand FSB speeds from clock speeds).

      The problem is more 'supposed' experts (especially those trying to sell you something) who have automatic trust of the consumer. I've tried to help people before who didn't trust that "Firefox" was actually safer. These are the exact same people who trust the best buy guy & buy a new power strip every 6 months because they 'wear out.'

    12. Re:First thing's first by xtieburn · · Score: 1

      Small and probably irrelevant side point. Though everyone typically knows what the acronym RAM means when they read it on some specs Harddisk memory is technically RAM as well. Just mechanical and roughly a million times slower RAM.

    13. Re:First thing's first by TheDormouse · · Score: 1

      The drab-looking military IDs (oriented landscape) do have a signature. I think the snazzy new white ones (oriented portrait) don't. I think the white ones are for active duty only. I'm not in the military, but I do work retail and see these IDs a lot.

      Working retail, where I have to write down the ID number on the card for checks and returns, it baffles me why someone wants me to write down their social security number (which is what's on the military IDs, at least the drab ones) instead of their driver's license number.

    14. Re:First thing's first by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I don't understand your point here? Are you trying to show how smart you are? or how good you are?

      Your saying that you can goto the store, find a cdrom, go thru the checkout, return home, unplug your computer, open the case, remove the old cdrom then install the new one faster then I can unplug the computer, drop it at the shop (Thats closer then the nearest bestbuy-compusa) on my way to work, let them find the cdrom, install and pick it up on the way home from work?

      Seriously, which do you think takes more of my time? Which is more convienient? Don't count the time I'm at work because I would be doing that anyways. Obviously if I had the time to run across town and make it back with a working cdrom, I would. The goal was to drop it on the way to work were I noticed the problem shortley before and pick it up on the way home so I was only down the time it took to unplug and reconect the computer. It didn't work out that way but that was because the shop had idiots workign for them. BTW were do you work and whats you r thoughts on "plug and play cards"?

    15. Re:First thing's first by Nomad37 · · Score: 1

      I remember walking into a department store's computer section (Harvey Norman for the Aussies) back around '96 to check out their Macs (back when they still sold them in Harvey Norman). I asked about some model (don't remember which) that I knew had a powerpc 603e processor. I didn't know what speed it ran at so I made the terrible error of asking the guy... he was pretty sure it was a pentium III. I was pretty sure he was a d*ck. (sure have used a lot of parentheses in this post...)

      --
      Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will! - Antonio Gramsci.
    16. Re:First thing's first by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      In some states, your social security number becomes your drivers licence number. Missour i was one of them. I had to claim membership to some religion in order to get a different number on my CDL drivers licence. I forget the religion but they have it referenced in the BMV office and the law number that provides for the exception.

      I has been several years since I renewed my licences in missouri. It may have changed since then. In ohio, i get a seperate number and you can have you SS# removed form your l;icense altogether. When you ask them to do it, they warn that you will need your SS card to do any other business with state agencies that require ID.

    17. Re:First thing's first by voxel · · Score: 1

      Yeah, dropping it off at the shop worked out REAL WELL for you. Good luck with your phantom plug and play card... or more realistically, hope you enjoyed bending over and taking it up the poop shoot.

      Your description is too long. It's more like: Go to a store (or even the shop you go to probably SELLS CDROMS). Buy one (in and out of store in under 5 minutes I bet). Drive home, then in less than 2 minutes you can have the case open, the old one out and the new one in. I know you can do it in 2 minutes.

      Then you avoid the whole driving to the shop again to pick up your PC.

      I still think its faster, and you don't get phantom plug-n-play cards...

      Then again, if you enjoy bending over and taking one up the pooper, then hey, have fun! :)

      --
      Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
    18. Re:First thing's first by paultwang · · Score: 1
      ...every time they confuse "memory" with "disk space." ...

      Disk space is memory. "This computer has 20 gigabytes memory" may be ambiguous, but not incorrect. It can refer to any or all storage devices that the computer has (HDD, RAM, etc). If someone wants to disambiguate, he should ask further. He should ask:

      Does that refer to a single hard disk capacity or something else? Does one gigabyte mean 10^9 bytes or 2^30 bytes? Do you mean the total capacity or the unused capacity?

    19. Re:First thing's first by sumdumass · · Score: 1
      if you enjoy bending over and taking one up the pooper, then hey, have fun!
      So you think having someone else do some remedial tasks that you could do yourself so you can do somethign else in turn is "taking it up the ass". Nice but i fear your alone. Maybe if you had the money to let someone else do the anoying remedial task instead of waisting your time on it you wouldn't hold this position.

      Your description is too long. It's more like: Go to a store (or even the shop you go to probably SELLS CDROMS). Buy one (in and out of store in under 5 minutes I bet). Drive home, then in less than 2 minutes you can have the case open, the old one out and the new one in. I know you can do it in 2 minutes.
      The shop I took it too didn't have any cdroms in stock. They buy them from the next place availible as needed in quantities of 5 or 10 which is "bestbuy" or "office max". I know this because I called and they told me. They also said they were going after some later in the day which is why i droped the computer off. Bestbuy or Officemax is a thirty minute drive from here one way. Say ten minutes to find the cdrom, go thru the checkout and listen to the clerk try and sell you an extended warenty if they aren't bussy and it takes longer. Then thirty minutes back to take around 5-10 minute to replace the thing. So at minimun on this day under these circumstances, it would have taken 1 hour and 10-25 minutes(or longer). Droping it at the shop on this day and under the same circumstances would have taken 2 minutes to unplug the computer 5 minutes to drop it off while on a trip to work that was being made anyways and 5 minutes to pick up on a tip home that was already neccesary then 2 minutes to plug it all back in. That is a total of 9 to 20 minutes instead of the "over 1 hour" experience.

      Of course you mention the "plug and play card". Any normal competent shop wouldn't have had this issue. It just illistrates how people are idiots as my point was. It also goes to show how some people can be roped into the same classification by jumping to conclusion without the facts. You are arguing a point that doesn't need made and it false. I know you are the uber-geeek and can do everythign better then anyone else so even givin these circumstances you would have jumped thru some time portal in your mom's basement, grabed the stuff and installed it in less then 2 minutes. Sometimes when people get real jobs, thier time is worth more then spending 2 hours getting parts and fixing something yourself. When you would have made $150-$200 for the same time it took to goto the store and fix it yourself, you tend to let others do the small jobs when it means you can make more.
    20. Re:First thing's first by voxel · · Score: 1

      You're missing the whole point. I said, it is FASTER to do it myself than to let a shop do it. In overall time lost. I'm not even counting the money.

      Do I mow my own lawn? no, I don't even clean my own house. I have a gardner, and a maid that comes once a week... I don't have to do anything. They come, I leave money on the counter for them.

      CD ROM in a computer, if your competent about it, you really do save personal time just stopping at the store on the way home, grabbing a $30 drive, go home, open case, pop it out pop it in, case back on, power button.

      Really, it is faster. :-) I'm enjoying these replies though. :)

      --
      Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
    21. Re:First thing's first by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      No i'm not missing the point. The point is that I said "I didn't have the time" and "attempted to get someoen else to do it". You called me one of those idiots "i was talking about" then went onto say i was "taking it up the ass" because i had someone else do it because "you could do it faster". Actualy your missing the point, People get these terms wrong because of some people trying to cheat them or sell something at any cost. Instead I am discusing why i took it to the shop instead of fixing it myself.

      Your only saving time in a perfect scenario so lets be frank. If you had been working at that shop and not attempting to cheat me, everything would have worked out as planned and I would have saved time. EG some one else would have drove the thirty minutes one way,stood in line and installed the device instead of me while i was working. This means that I would have had at minimum, one hour to do whatever I wanted instead of fucking with something so trivial. Nobody is taking it up the ass unless they actualy paid for the "plug and play card" but I didn't get screwed because the shop that was trying to scam me ended up selling me the cdrom for around $5.00 mor ethen best buy and I still saved a 1 hour drive minuus the 15 minunte spent droping the computer off and picking it up.

      So you see, I still did it faster then if I went and bought it at best buy originaly.

    22. Re:First thing's first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I ended up spending $40 just to get my systems back and install a CDrom from somewere else myself.

      So, what is it? Did you buy the cdrom from the shop that screwed you are the somewhere else as you originally claimed?

      Man...it sucks not remembering your earlier lies only to be caught in them.

    23. Re:First thing's first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does it really matter? If all had gone the way it should have, time would have been saved and that was the point. If buy driving and going to bestbuy an accident could have happened and we are still discussing somethign that doesn't need to be.

      This conversation was started by a troll reply to another comment. I'm not sure why it humored this long. What have we learned form this? Some kid in his moms basment is an ubergeek and anyone who doesn't do something his way or outsources something to save time is taking it up the ass. He reference a maid and lawn care workers and i think it is his mom and dad.

  6. Don't have to by biocute · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Normal computer users do not have to understand what is really going on with computers, they are simply -- users. Like users of washing machines, they don't need to know how the machine spins, or how many gallon of hot water to mix with cold one when how why.

    So in layman's term, computer is an electronic appliance, you plug in the power, turn it on and use it.

    If you own a Microsoft-branded machine, it usually comes with preset icons, DO NOT MOVE OR DELETE OR CHANGE THEM, just click on those icons to perform your daily task, like Outlook Express for email, Internet Explorer for web and online banking. When you're done, click on the START button to shutdown, it's like you need to open the front door in order to get out.

    Remember, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT modify your appliance by adding, removing or changing any settings or program, this will void your warranty. You don't simply add a 12-hour timer in your washing machine, you just use the 3-hour and 6-hour options built into the machine.

    Viruses may attempt to enter and destroy your appliance by asking you if you want to install such-and-such program. It's like your husband asking if he can put his red shirt in a load of white washings, and the answer is always NO. Saying yes to anything that changes your appliance in any way will void your warranty, which includes installation, modification and uninstallation.

    If you really need to do something risky, such as visiting a new website, try getting a program named FireFox. It's like when you're washing your new $500 bra for the first time, you use a bra net. You may continue to use the bra net every time if you want to.

    A factory-default (that is, unmodified) machine will usually do what we call self-maintenance, like a self-cleaning process in some washing machines. You may notice your appliance being busy for a while, then tells you your appliance has been updated, which is good.

    1. Re:Don't have to by eratosthene · · Score: 1


      Okay, I'm really sick of hearing people compare computers to consumer appliances. That comparison right there is IMHO directly responsible for most of the problems with computers nowadays. If people would stop looking at a computer like it's just a big black box that does magic stuff, and maybe stop to understand things just a little bit, probably 90% of spyware and popup ads would cease to be effective. I'm not advocating that Grandma needs to know commandline stuff or anything, but one thing that would help a lot of people out tremendously is simply to understand three things: 1) the notion of what an application is; 2) the difference between a web page and an application; and 3) a basic understanding of the file system. If users could look at a popup and notice that it has that little title bar up on top, they would realize that it's a web page rather than a real system-message-type-thing. And if users could understand the *VERY* simple layout of a file system (cmon, it works EXACTLY like a filing cabinet, what exactly is so confusing?), they might not lose their files all the time and other such nonsense.
      </rant>

      --
      -- There, everybody likes a gorilla.
    2. Re:Don't have to by un1xl0ser · · Score: 1

      Wow. I lost you at the $500 bra analogy.

      Do you realy expect the /. crowd to follow that?

      --
      v4sw6PU$hw6ln6pr4F$ck 4/6$ma3+6u7LNS$w2m4l7U$i2e4+7en6a2X h
    3. Re:Don't have to by moonbender · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Computers just aren't appliances yet. As such, it's often much easier to work with them if you have some understanding of their internals. This can be shallow, you don't have to be able to, you know, built a computer from scratch. Analogies are bound to be flawed, like your washing machine analogy, but a better one might be a car... it helps to understand that it contains a motor which combusts the fuel you put in it, when you've got a manual transmission it helps to know what that is all about and so on. This is especially true in case the car breaks down, which, famously, they don't do as often as computers.

      There are appliances that do a subset of what computers (or PCs) do. Web terminals for surfing, consoles for gaming, media players for MP3 and movie playback (often backed up by a PC). Network routers (usually Linux based). As far as I'm aware MS Office doesn't really have an appliance alternative, though.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    4. Re:Don't have to by CatsupBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Like users of washing machines, they don't need to know how the machine spins, or how many gallon of hot water to mix with cold one when how why
      If the personal computer had 10 buttons, 4 options, and three generations of people who knew how to use them, then I would say this analogy was accurate.
    5. Re:Don't have to by rbochan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...So in layman's term, computer is an electronic appliance...

      I disagree. They need to know that it's _not_ an appliance like a washing machine or a toaster. A computer is a tool.

      An appliance like a washing machine or a toaster are different for a couple of very important reasons:
            -- an appliance doesn't normally contain personal/financial information that can be used maliciously by others
            -- an appliance normally can't be used maliciously towards others

      People are fond of using car analogies when referring to computers, and in some aspects, those analogies work... especially when you consider that people don't just get into a car and "know how to drive". They first learn how the car works (at least a bit), in terms of user interface (gas pedal, brake pedal, oil changes, etc), for the mere fact that they can hurt themselves or others if the car is used improperly.

      The first thing I try to teach people is that a computer is NOT an appliance - it's a tool - like a circular saw or a kitchen knife. And like most any other tool, if it's not used properly and not maintained properly, harm can come to the user or others.

      --
      ...Rob
      The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
    6. Re:Don't have to by stinerman · · Score: 1

      Well I, for one, was lost at:
       
      ... DO NOT modify your appliance ... try getting a program ...

    7. Re:Don't have to by neomajic · · Score: 1

      I would say it would be comparable to a Swiss Army knife. But that would be giving M$ too much credit and giving Swiss Army knives a bad name.

    8. Re:Don't have to by DennisInDallas · · Score: 1

      I never got much of an education and I couldn't tell a metaphor from a simile.

      BUT, wouldn't saying that it works exactly like a file cabinet be the sort of comparision that you started the rant with?

    9. Re:Don't have to by 40000 · · Score: 1

      It would be better if computers were sold with an empty HD (even if there was an OS bundled with the hardware). Even if there was just an image of a pre-built system to restore from a DVD, it would show users that the hardware and software are separate, and also give them the confidence in knowing that if anything did go wrong, there was something that they could do about it.
      People buy flat pack furniture then put it together themselves, why not let the user install the software themselves?

    10. Re:Don't have to by Flashpot · · Score: 1

      If you know a computer geek, that's all you need to know!

      --
      That which does not kill her only prolongs my agony.
  7. Know how to drive but not where they are. by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The biggest problem I tend to face is that people don't know where the hardware ends, and where the OS Begins and where the OS Ends and the Applications begins. When they are doing something over the network or locally. They are just completely lost on the system. It it like they know how to drive but they don't know where they are now.

    They will always blame the wrong part for their problems.

    My Computer is Broken! When When MS Word fails to open.
    Windows Sucks! When the system wont Boot because the computer hardware failed.
    The Internet Is Down! When Windows somehow lost all its drives and fails boot.
    My Computer is slow, I need a faster one! When there are 1000s of spyware apps running

    What people need to know is what part of the computer does what type of job and how to at least say where the problem is.

    They should know when the Harddrive is clicking away or when sending information over the network.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The biggest problem I tend to face is that people don't know where the hardware ends, and where the OS Begins and where the OS Ends and the Applications begins. When they are doing something over the network or locally. They are just completely lost on the system.

      That is so true. And the reason is to us is that we don't know where to start to fix their problem. My mother actually calls everything she sees on the screen as "Microsoft". Scary.

      I don't know how to fix the problem. I mean, most people have no clue what "software" really is.

      Man, I've been brainstorming lately.

      I was a kid of the 70s and 80s and we had these cool Atari games that came in cartridges. I liked that model for some reason.

      If software for new computers come in a cartridge it would solve many things.

      1) piracy will basically stop, yes, ubergeeks will still do it, but everyday normal people won't. In fact, if you run a program at work or with your friends without inserting a cartridge, then they will know instantly that you did not pay for it.

      2) It will isolate the app from the OS and other apps.

      This does not scale too well for little programs. But I'm talking about expensive larger apps that you would only typically need at most 5. More on average 1.

      Think about how easy upgrades would be? Throw away or sell old cartridge and insert a new one. Expensive software is coming with hardware dongles already. Why does the program have to live on my harddrive too? Why is it so hard to run the program I paid for on another computer?

    2. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very true and related to a similar problem: the information people need to help fix your computer.

      Explain, and you can easily dedicate an entire chapter to this, how people should go around asking for help. Things like giving enough information, explaining what they are trying to do, what they did different from last time, the fact that an error message that seems gibberisch to them does not equal nothing ("What's on your screen?" "Nothing!" "Nothing at all?" "Well, these weird letters...") etc.

      Like the famous how to ask questions, the smart way, but maybe put more nicely. It may not be about computers per se, but it's a skill all non-techies need to learn.

    3. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      And related to this: GARBAGE IN-GARBAGE OUT. A computer is not a thinking machine, it's only as smart as the data and programs you put into it.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    4. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by NoData · · Score: 1

      The biggest problem I tend to face is that people don't know where the hardware ends, and where the OS Begins and where the OS Ends and the Applications begins. When they are doing something over the network or locally.

      Yup, it's a problem. But isn't this an illusion that software developers (OS and apps) are deliberately trying to foster? I believe they call it "tight integration." For most lay people, I think it's been a confusing success and a successful confusion.

    5. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by kent_eh · · Score: 1

      Interesting.
      The dongles don't just un-lock the program, they are the program.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    6. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this different to running stuff off a CD?
      Stuff gets installed to the HD because
      1: it's faster
      2: you can patch it
      3: Most people only have 1 CD drive - want to copy-paste from photoshop to office? Want your CAD app running whilst you write the documentation? Isolating apps from each other sucks.
      4: You don't have to find stuff or move around (why are remote controls so successful? people are lazy)

      This model is only useful for independent apps, i.e. games. Even then I prefer them on a PC so I have mods, can use skype at the same time, etc.

    7. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What people need to know is what part of the computer does what type of job and how to at least say where the problem is.

      No, what they need is a machine that's reliable so that if something goes REALLY wrong, they don't feel stupid about calling a computer technician or taking it to a repair desk to fix it.

      e.g.:

      My Computer is Broken! When When MS Word fails to open.

      MS Word shouldn't be so darn fickle. There are hundreds of ways to break it, that will easily put a user out of commission. My favorite? When Windows corrupts the preferences and decides that the Word window should now be located at +100000 by +100000 pixels. (Thank God Microsoft finally fixed that one.)

      Windows Sucks! When the system wont Boot because the computer hardware failed.
      The Internet Is Down! When Windows somehow lost all its drives and fails boot.

      Users are used to Windows failing. Ergo, the computer must not boot because of Windows. If faults were rare, the computer would go to a repair center and be fixed up quickly and cheaply.

      My Computer is slow, I need a faster one! When there are 1000s of spyware apps running

      Such programs need to be properly dealt with. Under OS X it can be very hard to install spyware. The primary method of "hiding" it requires sudo permissions. While the user can be tricked into giving up his password, it's much more difficult and bound to be far less legal.

      The secondary method would involve installing a program that the user can ALWAYS see. And if they can see it, they can kill it. Ergo, not too much spyware on Macs at the moment. (We'll see if spyware manufacturers figure out ways around this. It would be interesting to see Apple's response.)

    8. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by EEDAm · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "What people need to know is what part of the computer does what type of job and how to at least say where the problem is."

      I drive my car every day (in fact 30,000 miles a year) but I know absolutely f$!% all about mechanical engineering. I use a microwave every day but I've no idea how them microwaves are generated or why they stopped when they stopped. The user-engineer is, unsurprisingly, a popular way of thinking for a slashdotee, but think about it - do you really believe the future (or even the correct present) of computing is dependent on people who can diagnose their own problems down to a particular part fault? It's not because joe-consumer doesn't work that way in any part of their life. The real surprise is just how long it's taking to get past this point.

    9. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by finkployd · · Score: 1

      Here is the question:

      How is this different to running stuff off a CD?

      And here is the answer:

      1: it's faster

      You basically answered your own question, using a cartridge (or let us say flash memory over USB2/Wirewire) would be much faster than a CD. Not quite as fast as a hard drive perhaps, but probably close enough not to matter as much as it does with optical media.

      Finkployd

    10. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by hackstraw · · Score: 1, Interesting

      How is this different to running stuff off a CD?
      Stuff gets installed to the HD because
      1: it's faster


      A fast RAM disk on a piece of plastic would be at least 100x faster than a CD. Plus CDs are error prone, and easy to copy.

      2: you can patch it

      OK, make the chip writeable. They do it with firmware all the time.

      3: Most people only have 1 CD drive - want to copy-paste from photoshop to office? Want your CAD app running whilst you write the documentation? Isolating apps from each other sucks.

      That is another reason why the CD idea is dumb. The apps running off of the chip could be a simple USB drive. People carry them all the time that have apps to use on public machines that are not installed on the public machine. Stuff like a good web browser, putty, or whatever.

      This model is only useful for independent apps, i.e. games. Even then I prefer them on a PC so I have mods, can use skype at the same time, etc.

      That is what I'm talking about. Things like games, CAD, productivity applications like word processors, audio and video apps. Anything in the $50 range and up.

    11. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by thisissilly · · Score: 1

      Make 'em USB drives. Like Portable Firefox who, I see, is now part of a whole Portable Apps movement, very similar to your concept.

    12. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by demonbug · · Score: 1
      Expensive software is coming with hardware dongles already.


      Hardware dongles aren't exactly a new idea. And in the past they haven't been confined to expensive apps. I remember having a golf game on my commodore 64 that required a hardware dongle to be inserted in the back in order to play the game (no, I don't remember the name of hte game - but it had a silver label and a blue script title! God, the random things that stick in one's head...).

      Personally, I don't like your idea of compartmentalizing applications to the point of each one residing on it's own cartridge. Solving a problem that exists due to ignorance by further idiot-proofing the system doesn't seem like a good long-term solution, nor does it seem a good precedent to set.

    13. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Zerbs · · Score: 1

      If software for new computers come in a cartridge it would solve many things

      Actually, IBM tried this back in the day with the PCjr. It had two slots in the front of it to put program cartridges in. It must not have gotten good feedback from users back then.

      --
      "22 astronauts were born in Ohio. What is it about your state that makes people want to flee the Earth?" Stephen Colbert
    14. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by calethix · · Score: 1

      I agree to some extent but I think there are some basics that people should know. One of those being the difference between memory and a hard drive and the understanding that when I fill up my computer with crap, buying more memory isn't going to let me install more crap.
      If I'm driving my car around and run out of gas, I don't think the gas pedal is broke or worse yet, something completely unrelated like the steering wheel.

    15. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Nimey · · Score: 1

      ROMs are expensive. I don't have a figure for how much (say) a 512MB ROM would cost, but it would be much more than a CD-ROM. I don't think the idea would take off, because not only would you pay more for programs to cover it, but it's Yet Another Inventive Connector that PCs will have to support, unless they were made to fit in a USB stick.

      Hm. USB-stick ROM cartridges. /That/ could work, at least for expensive programs like AutoCAD where another $30 or so won't raise notice. It could also be a spiffy way to package e.g. classic arcade shovelware games, like those Atari packs. Just stick them into the USB port and boot from them... if the BIOS were set to boot from USB. Bah.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    16. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by mkipper · · Score: 1

      My major problem is that to a non-techie, there is a single scope to technology as a whole.
      That is, if I am a computer engineer, I must know how to diagnose your Windows driver conflict, despite the fact that I haven't used Windows in years.
      There are no boundaries between the different disciplines in the technology fields.

    17. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by AKAImBatman · · Score: 1

      Users weren't interested in using the PCjr as a gaming machine. (Technically, they just weren't interested in the PCjr, but I digress.) IBM targetted the small-business and home office markets with their "Personal Computer". As a result, the key software was BASIC (for writing your own business software) and various business apps for calendaring, accounting, and reporting. Remember, we're talking about a day when calculators were expensive. The ability to write a program in BASIC that could do all your computations, double-check them, then print out the equivalent of a paper tape automatically, was a technology that was worth a lot of money. And unlike a paper-tape calculator, you could store the data on a thin, easy-to-file floppy disk as opposed to keeping rolls and rolls of paper tape.

    18. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

      Oh hell. Now there's going to be a footrace to the patent office.

    19. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Kuros_overkill · · Score: 1

      Solving a problem that exists due to ignorance by further idiot-proofing the system doesn't seem like a good long-term solution, nor does it seem a good precedent to set.

      To late, that precedent was set back in the mid 70's. That is what is causing most of our problems now. We have created the situation where we are the ones doing the jumping everytime a user does not "get it".

    20. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by lustforlike · · Score: 1

      That is what I'm talking about. Things like games, CAD, productivity applications like word processors, audio and video apps. Anything in the $50 range and up.

      Every software publisher will decide that their tiny app is worth doing this to. The problem is that what they think the software is worth is likely not the same as what the user thinks the software is worth.

    21. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by pmike_bauer · · Score: 1

      Agreed. When I take my car to the shop, I give the mechanic a vague 'fuzzy' sort of description of what is wrong, and trust him to figure out the rest.

      What I don't do is insist that the mechanic follow my own diagnosis of the problem.

      As long as users insist on instructing the technician rather than being good little users and just answer questions and do what they are told with their machines, I'm all for the burden resting on the technician. However, most users know just enough to believe somehow that the technicion's job is to validate their own diagnosis when they would never do the same to the refridgerator repairman or the auto mechanic.

      --
      I read /. for the (Score:-1, Conservative) comments.
    22. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by peter1 · · Score: 1

      Amen to that! But this applies not only to OS/App/Document, but also to basic networking. My father has a cable modem at his house but a DSL line at his business. His email is via the DSL provider, so anytime anything goes wrong with email he always calls the DSL provider's help guy. (Who is luckily a nice guy and puts up with all this and always ends up calling me.)

      This has happend not only when his cable modem at home went down, but the last time he was on a business trip and the network at the hotel was out, he called the DSL provider because his "email was down"!

      A nice simple breakdown of the major components of a network based service (end user app->end user device->local LAN->internet->service provider) would be well worth the pages!

      Peter

    23. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by saltydogdesign · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's exactly what I need -- a million little cartridges to keep track of. Right now I have 18 programs running. Do I have to have 18 cartridges stuck into the back of my computer?

      --
      // This is not a sig.
    24. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by KilobyteKnight · · Score: 1
      The biggest problem I tend to face is that people don't know where the hardware ends, and where the OS Begins and where the OS Ends and the Applications begins.

      Heck, they don't know where one physical peice of hardware ends and another begins. And they don't know what each peice of hardware is or does.

      How many time have you heard someone refer to the computer case as the "hard drive" or the monitor as "the computer"? Or refer to a 3.5" floppy as a "hard disk".

      They don't know any of the terminology.

      They can't tell you what the dialog box says over the phone because they have no idea what a dialog box is.

      I have heard the word "download" misused so many times it makes me want to scream.

      So I suppose in response to the submitters question, I would say what people need to know more than anything else is the terminology. Until they speak the same language, they can't go any farther. The jargon was created to fill a need, not just for the heck of it. You can only dumb it down so far.

      Try telling someone how to drive a car without using any traffic related terminology.

      "Turn the round thing in front of you and push on the rectangular thing on the floor. You need to stay on the right side of the black stuff on the ground. Make sure the pointy thing on the guage in front of you doesn't go above the numbers on the signs posted to the side of the black stuff on the ground."

      It may seem silly, but that's the level tech support has to sink to for many support calls.
      --
      When will Windows be ready for the desktop?
    25. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by the+phantom · · Score: 1

      The idea of "the dongle is the application" is an interesting one to me. However, it seems that there are a couple of hurdles to jump before it is really practical. For instance, one reason to install on a hard drive is speed. Granted, once everything is loaded into RAM, it doesn't much matter, but my hard drive is a lot faster than my USB port. Also, what if someone wants to run Word, and Photoshop, and Excel, and four other programs at the same time? You will, eventually, hit a limit for the number of dongle ports that you have. Do you start daisy chaining them (Sonic and Knuckles + Sonic 3 style...)? Do you only allow a couple of apps to run at any one time?

      Still, for a low end consumer computer, it might be a great idea.

    26. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Huge+Pi+Removal · · Score: 1
      The secondary method would involve installing a program that the user can ALWAYS see. And if they can see it, they can kill it. Ergo, not too much spyware on Macs at the moment. (We'll see if spyware manufacturers figure out ways around this. It would be interesting to see Apple's response.)


      Actually, it's pretty easy to write a programme for OS X that won't show up in the Dock or Force Quit list - you just toggle an option in XCode. I've done this so an app on our public internet kiosks will keep the browser running, etc, but force quitting the it is impossible.

      So all you do is advertise a nice app, let people download, they open it and... nothing. And given I can update my startup items in System Prefs (at least in 10.3) without a password, surely an app could. (And for Tiger, there's usually at least one locally exploitable root hole lying around a given OS.)

      I'm not saying it's likely, nor that it's any worse than Windows, but it is possible with only a tiny amount of social engineering.
      --
      - Oliver

      The right to bear arms is only slightly less stupid than the right to arm bears...
    27. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      And related to this: GARBAGE IN-GARBAGE OUT. A computer is not a thinking machine, it's only as smart as the data and programs you put into it.

      Or, as we used to call it, "error between chair and keyboard"

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    28. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by maraist · · Score: 1

      And related to this: GARBAGE IN-GARBAGE OUT. A computer is not a thinking machine, it's only as smart as the data and programs you put into it.

      Try giving someone verbal directions of how to get somewhere to someone.. It's exactly the same problem. You are no more or less likely to get the desired result than if you were communicating to a sufficiently advanced computer program.

      The key problem is lack of shared context between the knowledge source and the querier.

      There is usually an impeedence mismatch between any two sides of an interaction. Even when both perfectly speek the same protocol (e.g. RMI, CORBA, HTTP) without a translation, there is still "filtered" information which is lost by the sender or erroneously implied by the recipient. Sometimes this lost[/extra] information makes for subtle problems in random situations.

      Say in human conversation there is a vocabulary word which differs in a particular region of the country.. So you're driving and you ask for directions. You both speak the King's English, but both of you have no idea that one of the key words in his directions has a different meaning to the two of you.

      Then, at worst, you have two completely incompatible API's (e.g. different languages, differents paradigms of how to give directions, different degrees of memory retention).

      Often also is the assymetry of capability and analysis of capability. Some things are easy to say, but hard to hear [properly]. It's second nature to give the directions for which you use to get to work, but it can be too overwhelming the first some someone hears it. It's the classic phrase "Skiing is easy", spoken by a seasoned skiier (who may have had special circumstances for when they learned to skii).

      These impeedences are inherent, and thus there is little point in trying to resolve them. It requires effort on all party sides.. Software makers do their best to provide consistent and "intuitive" (as defined as consistent with the known context of the most common user) interfaces. But there is simply too much which can't be directly related to life-styles outside of computers (the only sure way of removing the learning curve). The McDonalds kiosk is the perfect example of full Software-side Context adaptation.. A natural human phenomena is to see food and grab it. So you make a display that has pictures of food items.. And the cashier points to the food item that the customer has conveyed (in human API). It probably requires the cashier to manually type in the dollar amount, which is a minor degree of deviation from human context. But this second part is really the point... It is too hard to adapt something more complex than shopping-carts into a human-computer interface.

      Thus, you really really need a target audience when constructing such a book. You will simply not succeed in writing a general case. Too much would be redundant for casual users. And it would be too long if you provided both fundamentals and common useage techniques. The lenght would disuade absolute beginners (or people that think they know what they're doing).

      The idea might be something like wikipedia.. But with front-ends sufficient.... Namely, "Moms" wikipedia links (in the order you think is appropriate), "dads work" wikipedia links, etc.

      The key here is that the deficient end of the API physically employs their experience tree towards a topic; that's the only way of memorizing.. Encyclopedias are nexuses for research and tend to generate tangential analysis.. And it is in this tangency that enough human experience will occur that long term memory will be tickled.

      If all you provide is a bulleted list of links that can fit on a single page.. Then the browser will not feel overwhelmed initially.. You benifit from the peer-review already found in these online sources... And they can take things at their own pace; returning to the starting point at times of their choosing.

      --
      -Michael
    29. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by termigan · · Score: 1

      For most people, especially our non-career users like our parents and grandparents, a computer does nothing critical, so they're not willing to spend more money than absolutely neccessary. So if something is cheaper, but it does most of the same things that a more expensive alternative will do, it will typically gain popularity, people will put up with the annoying blemishes. Then to make people buy the more expensive or new product, they shove in more features. Since a software feature of given complexity costs roughly a fixed amount of money, putting in more features increases the cost of developing the software, or reduces the amount of money spent on making the software pretty. And if someone is so bold as to spend more money to make the same feature set with fewer blemishes, the investment is greater so the base price has to go up and the software is consequently is less popular. Because there are fewer coppies sold, each copy has to bring in more money to cover the increased investment. At the end of the day, in the current environment, the price to buy more clean software goes up for two different reasons so it's hard to make money being the company that makes better, but no more functional software.

      Also there are many forces at work that cause us to always be upgrading our computers and software. We're always getting faster CPUs urging us to pack more complexity into the programs to make use of the faster CPUs. Then the software companies don't survive if people don't buy software, and they're not creative enough to come up with new ideas for new pieces of software that catch on like wild fire, so they upgrade current software. So, we're constantly making our software and hardware more complex. Combine that with the fact that we're not getting THAT much better at implementing software bug free and you get computers that fail for so many reasons that non-experts get confused. Then the non-experts get confused by the fact that by the time they learn something, it's obselete and it's time to learn the next thing already.

      Quite a mess.

      --

      Today is all we really have. We should all live it well: it is our stepping stone to all of our tomorrows.

    30. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Oh good. Who needs that pesky remote administration? It's much better to have to walk to each desk and plug crap in by hand.

      Your ideas are intriguing. Do you have a newsletter?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    31. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Dr.+Winston+O'Boogie · · Score: 1

      If you *really* understand how each level of the hardware through OS through app architecture work, they you *too* should be confused about the dividing line. It is the moving of these lines and fuzziness between them which have defined the *real* advances in computer technology (as opposed to things line "AJAX" which people think to be some radical new technology advancement.)

      Two rants in one posting...apologies if I exceeded the limits.

    32. Re:Know how to drive but not where they are. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they would simplify things by only allowing one cartridge to be plugged in at once. Browse the web, click on am email link, doh, gotta plug in my outlook cart, crap, there goes my web brower.

  8. For Dummies by debianlinux · · Score: 2, Informative

    It may not have been updated but I read a book of the "For Dummies" variety several years ago that covered exactly the material you describe. I was reading it from an already very advanced POV, too.

    1. Re:For Dummies by JLennox · · Score: 2, Informative

      I recall in my youth reading DOS For Dummies and I felt that it tought me the important basics of computing in a very good manor.

      An above poster mentioned that one of the importances is that the user understands where the hardware begins and ends, as with the applications, and operating system. I will second his opinion. Most users when they encounter an error from an application (probly the most common error), they will happily blame Microsoft or Dell.

      I believe errors such as 'unhandled exception,' and other userland errors, to 'STOP,' and other kmode errors, be covered and be told how to diangose and solve. Not on the grounds that they will replace a well trained computer tech, but enough for them to know that an error in NTFS.SYS means either the files shit the bed or your file system has, then how to attempt to recover (boot to recovery prompt, scan disk).

      I'd also fully recommend covering the differnt types of expansion buses. AGP, PCI, PCI-E, USB, Parellel/Serial, etc. Talking about their ups and downs. "An external CD burner is easier to install, but it costs more and sucks balls." Seperating the external and internal installation would most likely be benefitial, but would most likely be proper to make a solid point that they are not that differnt.

      Covering the common Windows software would not be bad, either. As well as additional software and where to download it.

    2. Re:For Dummies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      some dummies are beyond the dummy stage, there needs to be a "Dummies for Dummies" book :^)

  9. Memory != Storage Space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Memory has nothing to do with long term storage. Increasing memory does not give you the ability to store more files.

  10. essentials by BushCheney08 · · Score: 1

    Be sure to have a chapter dedicated to the on/off switch on both the main case and the monitor (hell, that might be two chapters right there). A chapter on when a cup holder isn't a cup holder. And don't forget the chapter on magic smoke. Covering those things should take all the mystery out of computers...

    --
    Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
  11. They're stupid by Thud457 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    and they bite.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  12. What Should People Understand About Computers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That I deserve a lot of cash for operating one, and that they have no hope of ever figuring them out.

    (partly joking)

    1. Re:What should people understand about computers? by donnyspi · · Score: 1

      Example: If your printer isn't printing, STOP HITTING THE PRINT BUTTON!!!

    2. Re: What Should People Understand About Computers? by Dream1979 · · Score: 1

      I am 1 of about 4 people in my office that are computer literate, and 2 of the others are consultants and only here twice a week. Almost everyone else for that matter is below average, some even feel the need to call me to help them with such petty tasks such as typing a phone number in a word document, to print a file, and once I was even asked e-mail a file back the the original sender because it was the only copy.

      The fact that they dont even have this basic knowledge leads me to wonder why they have the job that they do.

      Even if there were a book perfectly written, where even the most computer illeterate user would understand, I gaurantee they would not read it. "Hey why learn anything when we can get the IT guy to do it for us?" That mentality is the problem. Laziness, but if we say anything to the boss... we are complaining about doing our "jobs". Its really sickening

  13. Everyone ought to know about Alan Turing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Alan Turing is a visionary, a hero, and a flawed man just like the rest of us.
    Everyone, and I mean everyone, ought to know about this wonderful guy
    that changed our history forever.

  14. Look in your glove box. by StressGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Assuming that's where you keep the manual for you car. All you really need to know about your car is how to operate it and how to take care of it (what kind of fuel, when to change the oil, belts, plugs, etc.). It's not really necessary to know much about how a car works to be able to properly use it. Such information is available to those who want to know, but it's not necessary to know the Brayton Cycle for example, to operate a car.

    I would suggest that this be your state of mind when writing your computer manual. I.e. focus on how to use it and how to take care of it.

    --
    A goal is a dream with a deadline
    1. Re:Look in your glove box. by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Um That explains a lot. The Manual to your car doesn't tell you how to drive though. It doesn't say which side of the road to travel. It doesn't tell you about various traffic laws and what they mean.

      You still need to know how to drive safely. It isn't simple for most people. So How about a license that people have to get before they are allowed to use a computer connected to the Internet? No Information needs to be free.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:Look in your glove box. by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      That's actually a very good idea. It wouldn't limit information - think about it. All the end user would have to do is get a 'permit' and show that they can be safe on the internet and what not.

    3. Re:Look in your glove box. by nickj6282 · · Score: 1

      Actually it's a terrible idea. Automobile laws and the requirement for a driver's license to operate are in the interest of human safety. Someone who does not know how to drive properly can easily injure and kill other people. This sort of thing happens all the time. Computer safety is a far different animal. When is the last time anyone was killed by downloading a virus or clicking yes to a spyware-laden ActiveX control? Nobody is at risk of real harm when computer safety (as far as the OS and applications go, hardware is another matter) rules are not followed.

      And before someone mentions the instances where 14 year old girls have been raped by older men they met in a chat room, a license would not have prevented that. A license doesn't make you incapable of acting stupid behind the wheel or behind the keyboard, it just ensures that you know how to act properly in those situations. Whether or not you do is still based on judgement.

    4. Re:Look in your glove box. by rleibman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the car analogy breaks down. Cars are meant for basically one purpose: they are a vehicle to transport people and things, their user interface is mostly the same and you're talking 10 controls or so only, the manual in your glove compartment is more than enough for it, the majority of people don't even need it. Computers have a virtual infinity of uses, and each program/operating system/computer has slightly different user interface to do what it does. Much more is needed than a glove compartment guide.

    5. Re:Look in your glove box. by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 1

      It's a perfect analogy, actually. Your average computer user simply doesn't give a fuck about the inner workings of their computer, the way many people don't give a fuck about the inner workings of their car. And wether it's tech support or a mechanic, they don't care what the problem was, or how you solved it, just that you fixed it and that it isn't going to cost too much.

    6. Re:Look in your glove box. by LegendLength · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, the reason computers are bad in the first place is because of developers who expose internals of the product without reason. If developers truly focused on the car analogy (ie. actually tested their interfaces scientifically, with real random user groups), I can promise you that 99% of newbie problems would disappear.

      The solution is simple but requires careful thought and a perfectionist attitude to implement properly. Of course, many companies do know this and have hired people who are naturally good communicators to design great human/machine interfaces.

    7. Re:Look in your glove box. by Hosiah · · Score: 1
      focus on how to use it and how to take care of it.

      um...I'm going to try to break this to you gently: It's been done before.

    8. Re:Look in your glove box. by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      and someone who does not know how to protect themselves on the internet can quickly spread viruses and such. THAT is the more important part of computer safety - protecting yourself to protect the rest of us

    9. Re:Look in your glove box. by Kiaser+Zohsay · · Score: 1

      All you really need to know about your car is how to operate it and how to take care of it

      This would be a great idea if computers were anywhere near as reliable as cars. I am a developer, and I drive to work, so I use both cars and computers every day. If I compare the number of times a car of mine has broken down and and left me stranded on the side of the road with the number of times I've gotten a BSOD, the blue screen wins. YMMV (literally).

      The same goes for hardware problems. Most hardware problems are simple and fixable (in cars and in computers), but some are just not, like a rod bearing or a mobo that's just plain fried. Comparing the number of unrecoverable failures, computer hardware wins again.

      Until the reliability is there, and computers become true appliances that you can just plug in and turn on, there will remain a gap separating people into two groups, those that know enough to make computers work and those that rely on the first group.

      --
      I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
  15. Not so much a content suggestion... by sterno · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But I was thinking about how such a book should be structured. It occurs to me that there's a lot of stuff that a person might like to know but might not need to know. And so I'm thinking the book should begin with an explanation of what's right in front of them. What each object on their desk does, how they relate to eachother, and the basics of how to interact with all of them.

    Then from there, the next sections would go one step beyond that. So the first part would be to talk about what the computer is, then the second part would talk about how memory works, etc. So at any point if the person gets spooked by any of it they can just stop where they are and have a good amount of knowledge. Make it easy for it to be a gentle progression.

    --
    This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
  16. computer fact #01 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the CD drive is NOT a cupholder.

    kthxlol

    1. Re:computer fact #01 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was gonna post that, dammit.

      Thanks for ruining my day.

  17. Google by ribblem · · Score: 1

    Why go to the bookstore when they could just google for it?

  18. lost cause! :P by Klanglor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i say its a lost cause, there is soo much 101 book about computer. if u can't explain it to your mom. don't expect any book to be able to.

    People tend to learn on a step by step basis depending on the interest in any specific subject.

    meaning if i am interested in learning quantum science. no mather how hard it is, I will keep on trying. well if i don't fell the need for it, i will give up and say its non sense.

    So just grab your latest for dummie book and hand it over to your mom. If she REALLY wants to understand then she will learn.

    Just give up, if you are just trying to force knowledge into her mind, its a lost cause ;p

  19. I've got plenty of ideas... by TeachingMachines · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... but I'll only provide them if your book is to be released under the Open Document license.

    --

    The Death Penalty: Killing people to show others that killing people is wrong.
    1. Re:I've got plenty of ideas... by wild_berry · · Score: 1

      The Wikipedia wasn't entirely clear. Can you explain it to me without all that jargon?

    2. Re:I've got plenty of ideas... by tepples · · Score: 1

      but I'll only provide them if your book is to be released under the Open Document license.

      You linked to an article about a file format, which has nothing to do with the licensing of a work that is published in that format. Did you mean "a free text license such as Creative Commons BY-SA or GNU Free Documentation License"?

  20. What kind of questions are you so sick of answern? by lilmouse · · Score: 3, Insightful
    What kind of questions are you so sick of answering because you hear them every week?
    It's broke - fix it!

    I think that's the wrong approach - it's like asking a calc TA what questions he got asked most during the term. How do I do problem #3 isn't terribly useful to put in a book - next year they'll have to know how to do problem #4. So it goes with computers. Many questions can be "answered" without giving any real insight to the end reader/user. Be careful - you have to teach basics :)

    That said...

    I remember having to go through contortions to explain the concept of a "file" and "directory" to my mom. Just how technical *do* you get? "Any file is just a bunch of data" can be a bit confusing...

    --LWM
  21. Try showing her an online source of help. by gasmonso · · Score: 1

    While I find books quite useful for learning about coding and such, many other non-technical people might find it more useful to use an online resource like http://computer.howstuffworks.com/

    There are plenty of visual aids and easy to follow diagrams. Give that a shot and see if it helps or inspires your book.

    http://religiousfreaks.com/
  22. Everything that I learned on /. by IAAP · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Do not log in as admin

    Have other accounts besides owner or User

    Use Firefox

    Use Firebird

    Use AVG Free

    Try not to use Windows :-)

    When in doubt-be paraniod!

  23. start with the basics by Broadcatch · · Score: 1
    • What is a computer? (hardware: memory, disk, screen, keyboard, ...)
    • What is an operating system? (file, directory management, task switching, ...)
      • Examples: windows, mac, linux
    • What is an application? (mail, text editing, web browsing, ...)
      • Examples: Outlook, Word, Firefox
    --

    The antidote for misuse of freedom of speech is more freedom of speech.
    -- Molly Ivins

    1. Re:start with the basics by dal20402 · · Score: 1
      I tried using your approach with my Mom. It got her nowhere. The concepts were just too abstract and too far removed from her ideas of what a computer did or could be used for.

      I finally broke through with a task-centered approach. "Open Word. See... you can type anything you want. Now choose 'Save.' That's a file... Now open iTunes. That track there, that I imported from your CD... that's also a file." By showing her examples I was able to give her something to attach the abstract concepts to. Similarly, she did not understand "directories" until she understood what these "files" were that she could organize in "directories."

      The great shortcoming of interfaces today is that they don't allow enough configuration of "simple" or "complex." When you first turn on a machine, it should ask you: "Do you like computers?" Then: "How comfortable are you with computers?" If the answer is "I'm dal20402's Mom," then the machine should not show ANYTHING except a documents folder and an annotated list of applications. Conversely, a power user on the same OS should be able to display everything.

      Error handling also needs work. No current OS is good enough at diagnosing errors and offering feedback useful to the n00b. The machine should be able to say to the user: "My file system is corrupt. Run Disk Utility." ...not "4E 02 24 AB 65 23..." even under difficult circumstances. But error handling is unglamorous, so developers don't spend enough time on it. If it were well done, we would need to spend a lot less time explaining things over and over again.

    2. Re:start with the basics by ipxodi · · Score: 1

      Way back in the days of DOS I discovered a very effective way of describing "files", "directories" and "drives" to new computer users. (I was tasked with giving new managers some basic computer training at a large company.)

      Every single one of them "got it" when described like this: (condensed for Slashdot, the original explanation was even simpler)

      Visualize a 2 drawer file cabinet. The top drawer is labeled "C:", the bottom drawer is "D:".
      Open the "C" drawer -- you can put paper in there, right? Those pieces of paper are your "files". To keep them organized, you probably want to use manila folders, right? Those are your directories. So if you want to file this bill from the electric company on your File Cabinet "computer", you'd open drawer C:, find the folder called "Bills" and place the piece of paper named "January Electric Bill" in it.
      On a (windows) computer you would write that as C:\utilities\january electric bill

      --
      load "windows7" ,8,1
  24. No dooms day device by stecoop · · Score: 1

    Even if you are running MS Windows, no matter what you do to the computer, it will not blow up. Yeah yeah, I ran X back in the day when you could burst a monitor into flames with the wrong refresh rate but those days are mostly gone. So look at all the options under everymenu and read a whole lot to understand what you are looking at.

  25. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maing them understand the underpinnings is a waste of time.

    Tell them what they need to know. About anti-virus tools, anti-spyware tools and things to avoid.

  26. You expect people to actually read this thing? by mankey+wanker · · Score: 1

    What a joke. The main reason some of us even make a living at all is the flat out refusal of most people to read a manual.

    Good luck with your book, you're going to need it...

  27. "Where Stuff Is" by P3NIS_CLEAVER · · Score: 1

    The hardest concept for many beginners is understanding where stuff is, and how to get to it. Understanding the difference between memory and hard disk, and things on the internet. Maybe if your mom understood that you never want anything on the internet on her hard drive, she wouldnt install spyware on it.

    --
    Please sign petition to restore sanity to our banking system!!!

    http://financialpetition.org/
  28. Proprietary Design by Codename46 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most people don't understand the facts about the proprietary designs many brand-name PC's use. A lot of proprietary PC's are hard to service and a pain to upgrade. They should be informed of the brands that are proprietary like Dell, their proprietary advantages/disadvantage, and the brands that aren't proprietary like PowerSpec, and their advantages. I'm a salesman at Micro Center, and almost every customer whom I sold a computer to didn't know what proprietary design meant and what brands are proprietary. Those are the one who usually buy Compaq, HP, Gateway, and Dell-brand PC's and end up leaving with a PowerSpec computer and liking it because its easily upgradable and serviceable.

    1. Re:Proprietary Design by Karma+Farmer · · Score: 1

      Those are the one who usually buy Compaq, HP, Gateway, and Dell-brand PC's and end up leaving with a PowerSpec computer and liking it because its easily upgradable and serviceable.

      And every single one of them paid extra for a computer they will never, ever, ever upgrade.

      A few will come back in three years and ask to upgrade, at which point they will need a whole new everything. And, if they're smart, at that point they'll buy a Dell, and thell their friends to never give you another penny as long as you live.

    2. Re:Proprietary Design by pNutz · · Score: 1

      I don't proprietary know what proprietary design proprietary means either, or proprietary what brands are proprietary proprietary.

      --
      Death and danger are my various breads and various butters.
  29. What should people understand about computers? by maynard · · Score: 1

    That a computer is no more than a pocket calculator with a memory to store what buttons one would have pushed, the results from that calculation, and branching instructions to deal with special cases. Everything else is just window dressing.

  30. won't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are millions of those books. The problem is never in people not understanding something. The problem is that you can not expect a layman to grok "at least the important bits" just as it is not possible for you to "at least diagnose cancer" when your not a doctor .
    Such things simply take time and experience, and the completely inept will never learn.

    1. Re:won't work by hunterx11 · · Score: 1

      I can't diagnose cancer and I know nothing about medicine, but that doesn't mean that I don't know what cancer is or what some causes are or that metastasis is bad, etc. Likewise, all told I really know very little about computers. I couldn't begin to tell you what a TCP packet looks like, I don't know a single opcode in any machine language, and I don't know how the hell you represent a filesystem using a binary tree. But I know what a computer is, and how it basically functions, so that learning specific things about it is trivial. Most people have better things to do than be computer whizzes, but considering how important computers are and how much we use them, most people should know the fundamentals of them. Or as a specific example: almost nobody really needs to know that an HTTP request ends with CR LF CR LF, but they should know that when you look at a webpage, your computer is actually requesting a file from another computer on the internet.

      --
      English is easier said than done.
  31. Sadly... by StressGuy · · Score: 1

    I think "general public" includes women themselves....

    {...boy am I in trouble now...}

    --
    A goal is a dream with a deadline
    1. Re:Sadly... by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think "general public" includes women themselves....

      You must be new here.

    2. Re:Sadly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I would agree. Woman don't know themselves most of the time.
      This is what happens when listening to a woman gossip about there life, and very common questions I hear but dare never to answer.
      like ...
      Q: Where are all the nice guys?
      A: There are a lot of nice guys, but because they are nice they are not going to come up to you in the middle of the street and hit on, if you do meet the nice guy you tend to take his niceness for granted.

      Woman go: Look are not that Important.
      I go (to myself): Bull shit! All woman say that but you will always put more attention to the more attractive one then the less attractive one.

    3. Re:Sadly... by shockingbluerose · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ok Maybe you do have a point here about some women not understanding myself but I think that just like with most things in life you can't sterotype women this way. As for the going for the looks part, men are the same way as women on this. You have to be somewhat physically attracted to someone in order to date them. And if they want to know where to find all the nice guys a great place to start is slashdot. But that's just my opinion.

      --
      My name is a variety of floral rose, and no, it's not blue :)
    4. Re:Sadly... by MetaPhyzx · · Score: 1

      "And if they want to know where to find all the nice guys a great place to start is slashdot."

      I'm sure WOMEN would require a fella that doesn't consider his mom's basement to be an "apartment? ;) I'm not so sure slashdot could meet that demand....

      --
      Blacker than my baby girl's stare. Black like the veil that the muslimina wear. Black like the planet that they fear...
    5. Re:Sadly... by shockingbluerose · · Score: 1

      awwww everyone on here isn't like that.

      --
      My name is a variety of floral rose, and no, it's not blue :)
    6. Re:Sadly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only fella I want from a woman is a fella tio

    7. Re:Sadly... by dgiaimo · · Score: 1

      And they should all read this: Girl's Guide to Geek Guys

    8. Re:Sadly... by StressGuy · · Score: 1

      I didn't mean *this* general public :)

      --
      A goal is a dream with a deadline
    9. Re:Sadly... by Fishstick · · Score: 1

      >As for the going for the looks part, men are the same way as women on this.

      except the guys don't usually say 'looks aren't important' as the OP says women do. Guys I know make no bones about the fact that looks are important.

      --

      There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
      Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.

    10. Re:Sadly... by whoisjoe · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter.

    11. Re:Sadly... by Rimbo · · Score: 1

      I think "general public" includes women themselves....

      How does that change anything? It's still true.

    12. Re:Sadly... by sgt+scrub · · Score: 4, Funny

      You must be new here.

      The fact he didn't know enough about women to know they are part of the general public makes it obvious that he is NOT new here.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    13. Re:Sadly... by el+americano · · Score: 1

      you tend to take his niceness for granted

      It's worse than that, I think. Nice guys are thought of as wimps. I'll never understand how how so many women prefer to go out with jerks.

      Looks are not that Important

      On this point, I think they're just trying not to appear shallow. They may not actually be lying to themselves, just to you. On the other hand, men don't even have the decency to be ashamed about advanced systems of rating women from 1 to 10 where models and actresses have trouble scoring high. Score this one for the women, I think.

      --
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    14. Re:Sadly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True. I live in the attic!

    15. Re:Sadly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      judging from my recent experiences with one, i don't think women understand themselves. so he's got a point.

    16. Re:Sadly... by tudda · · Score: 1

      Off topic:

      I'll summarize why for you.

      Most people are more interested in genuine people, then nice people.

      Most "nice guys" are just schmucks acting nice because they think it's what they have to do to get a girl. "nice guys" pick one girl and decide to be overly nice (read: creepy) to her and get discouraged when it doesn't work. If you notice one thing about guys who are succesful with women, it's that they don't let rejection/failure bother them.

    17. Re:Sadly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in my grandmother's den -- she rations my hot water; that's always impressive to the right kind of ladies.

    18. Re:Sadly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they don't let rejection/failure bother them

      An insensitive jerk clearly has the advantage there. Of course slashdotters should try to improve their social skills, but if women would improve their selection process, it would benefit everyone. Oh well, enough complaining about things we can't change.

    19. Re:Sadly... by fast+penguin · · Score: 1

      I'll never understand how how so many women prefer to go out with jerks.

      Never read the Ladder Theory?

      --
      My worst enemy gave me a copy of Windows for Christmas.
    20. Re:Sadly... by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      yea, my mom doesn't even have a basement.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  32. The nature of the Internet by Blue+Neon+Head · · Score: 1

    Most people don't have the slightest understanding of how the Internet works; for them, it is indistinguishable from magic. It would be nice if users understood how their machine fits into the Internet, how one computer communicates to another (at a high level, not necessarily the gritty details), and precisely what sort of hazards that subjects them to (and doesn't subject them to - e.g. everything that goes wrong on your machine is NOT necessarily the fault of a "virus").

  33. Petzold by LukePieStalker · · Score: 1

    Charles Petzold has already covered this ground, at least the software part of it, pretty well for the general reader in his book "Code".

  34. Computer Suck by stavromueller · · Score: 0

    In direct response to the title, that computers suck and one should stay as far away as possible from them because they will ruin your life.

    --
    I kill harmless processes for sport
  35. Don't make up shit you don't know by Sax+Maniac · · Score: 4, Funny

    The big box that you put the CDs into is not a CPU.

    --
    I can explanate how to administrate your network. You must configurate and segmentate it, so it can computate.
    1. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by n6kuy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Of course not. That's the "hard drive."

      --
      If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
    2. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by Marc_Hawke · · Score: 0

      Then what is it? What do you call it?

      "The box" doesn't seem to be descriptive enough.
      "The case" is too specific.
      "The Computer" seems to be the global term for kb/mouse/monitor/apps/cpu.
      "The System" is NOT a piece of hardware.

      I think "Central Unit" is pretty descriptive, and CPU is the way to say that.

      The Athlon and the Pentium can just be called "Processors", but I can't think of simple term for 'the case and all the stuff inside it.'

      Maybe "Head Unit" if you wanted to steal from consumer audio.

      --
      --Welcome to the Realm of the Hawke--
    3. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by pclminion · · Score: 3, Funny
      The big box that you put the CDs into is not a CPU.

      Of course not. According to one of my ex-GF's, that box is properly referred to as the "modem."

    4. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

      The word "system" (short for "computer system") traditionally includes all of the hardware and software elements that make up the computer being referred to.

      The fact that some of the extraneous peripherals don't fit in the main system box (that's why they're "peripheral" elements) doesn't lessen the fact that most of the system is included within the main case.

      Because of this, using "system" to refer to the case and all hardware/software inside of it isn't all that much of a stretch.

      Calling the entire thing a "CPU" is more complicated and potentially less correct because some systems have more than one type of processor (remember the days of CPUs and math coprocessors? Now consider the smart elements on your disk controller(s) and video card(s)), so the term "CPU" has usually referred to the main system processor (Central Processing Unit).

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    5. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by bomb_number_20 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think "Central Unit" is pretty descriptive, and CPU is the way to say that.

      It may be convenient, but calling it a CPU is incorrect. How are they going to know what you are talking about when you refer to the actual CPU?

      Maybe defining important terms as you progress through the book is the way to go. That way, you eliminate ambiguity and you build a vocabulary.

      "The Computer" seems to be the global term for kb/mouse/monitor/apps/cpu

      Keyboards, mice and monitors have nothing to do with the computer. Define what a peripheral is and use these as examples. That also helps clarify which part does the computing.

      The idea is to move forward one term/component/concept at a time. By the end, the user will (hopefully) not only be able to do basic things, but, if they find themselves in a spot of trouble, also be able to effectively communicate their problem to someone technical when needed.

      --
      That's ok, Jesus likes me anyway.
    6. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by CableModemSniper · · Score: 1

      How about the tower? (Assuming of course, it is a tower.)

      --
      Why not fork?
    7. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by tylerni7 · · Score: 1

      Tower or box works nicely... but saying that you put CDs in your CPU might cause a few problems...

    8. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by pclminion · · Score: 1
      Keyboards, mice and monitors have nothing to do with the computer.

      I have a computer sitting inside my closet which IS the keyboard. It's a Commodore 64.

      To say that KVM has nothing to do with the computer is insane. They ARE NOT the computer but they are clearly plugged into it. Saying something as crazy as "The keyboard has NOTHING to do with the computer" is exactly the sort of thing that has these people so discombobulated in the first place. They're trying to get practical information and you're waxing semantic.

      By all means, explain what a peripheral is. Perhaps mention that inside many peripherals is a little tiny computer! Imagine that, computers plugging into computers. Soon they'll understand the freaking Internet.

    9. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by jb.hl.com · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ahh, ex girlfriends.

      My Internet connection once went down, and since I NAT to the rest of the house nobody else could get online either.

      So my ex tried to fix it.

      End result: I came in, turned on my PC, watched the Win2K bootup screen scroll by and then wondered why the flipping fuck I had Netware on my PC, 2 different firewalls enabled and TCP/IP disabled for the LAN card.

      Took about 5 minutes to fix but I never let her anywhere near my PC with admin privileges again.

      --
      By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
    10. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by Redwin · · Score: 1

      Isn't it a coffee cup holder?

      --
      Warning, comments may not have been passed by the sanity department of my brain.
    11. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by bomb_number_20 · · Score: 1

      I have a computer sitting inside my closet which IS the keyboard. It's a Commodore 64.

      Then you're an idiot. You want to 'wax semantic' and split hairs about controllers and chipsets? That keyboard isn't the computer, the computer is underneath the keyboard. Don't believe me? Rip the keyboard off the top and try to use it. Let me know how that works out for you.

      To say that KVM has nothing to do with the computer is insane.

      I'm going to assume you're drunk, high or confusing me with another post. I never said anything about KVMs in my post.

      They ARE NOT the computer but they are clearly plugged into it.

      You're right. Hence the term 'peripheral'.

      Saying something as crazy as "The keyboard has NOTHING to do with the computer" is exactly the sort of thing that has these people so discombobulated in the first place. They're trying to get practical information and you're waxing semantic.

      The emphasis is yours, not mine. Why is that crazy? The OP said that people tend to think of the term 'computer' as an inclusive term- including the keyboard, monitor, mouse and the software that runs on it. My point was simply that referring to those devices together as the computer was misleading.

      By all means, explain what a peripheral is. Perhaps mention that inside many peripherals is a little tiny computer! Imagine that, computers plugging into computers. Soon they'll understand the freaking Internet.

      You take one sentence, out of context, from a comment and act like I've ripped a hole in the fabric of the universe. Most users don't care about all the little pieces parts floating around inside their keyboards, KVM switches, monitors and printers. Not only that, they don't want to hear about that crap because it's not relevant to them. They do, however, (hopefully) want and need to be able to articulate themselves without feeling stupid when they have a problem. Having the vocabulary to explain your problem helps everyone involved.

      --
      That's ok, Jesus likes me anyway.
    12. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by jonfelder · · Score: 1

      While I mostly agree with you; the poster was using KVM in this instance to abbreviate keyboard, monitor, and mouse which you did discuss. They were not referring to a KVM switch, just merely using the name as a shorthand for the devices you mentioned.

    13. Re:Don't make up shit you don't know by l0b0 · · Score: 1

      In Norway, that is referred to as the harddisk. Arg.

  36. OCR by sckeener · · Score: 1

    I do not know how many times I have to tell an attorney that they can not edit the text of a scanned picture by just typing over it.

    They do not understand that if they want to edit the document they need to OCR the document.

    Then there are the Attorney's that want me to call up Microsoft and get them to fix everything before they sue them.

    Or how about the people that try to open documents or programs from inside other applications.

    --
    "Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
    1. Re:OCR by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      I do not know how many times I have to tell an attorney that they can not edit the text of a scanned picture by just typing over it.

      Speaking as a UI Nazi, I would describe this as a fault of the UI, not the user. If something looks like text, it should behave like text. If you scan a document and try typing in it then it should be OCR'd automatically (probably popping up a box in the meantime saying 'Please wait, converting image to text').

      Much of the reason people find computers difficult to use is that a lot of people are willing to put up with bad user interfaces.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:OCR by joto · · Score: 1
      Speaking as a UI Nazi, I would describe this as a fault of the UI, not the user. If something looks like text, it should behave like text. If you scan a document and try typing in it then it should be OCR'd automatically (probably popping up a box in the meantime saying 'Please wait, converting image to text').

      I disagree. The programs you use should not try to out-guess you about what you want to do. Instead it should offer you a clear indication that something is not possible, and a simple way to accomplish what you want.

      If users are confused by not being able to edit scanned documents, that's really the users fault. They should be taught and educated in the use of computers first.

      There are real technical reasons behind why the text isn't automatically OCR'd, and why computers in real life doesn't behave like computers in Star Trek. By OCRing a text document, you loose information, and introduce new errors. This is not something the computer should do without consulting the user first.

      In fact, the strength of having a computer is that it does exactly what the user tells it to do. Having the computer out-guess you just makes it harder to do what you want to do. Computers are not intelligent, and the second they start guessing what you want to do, they will start guessing wrong. Then you need to correct those computer-introduced errors, and the computer out-guesses you again, thinking you meant something else (or the same fault again)!

      This is why e.g autocorrect in Word is so annoying. While it might be able to correct a few errors, it also introduces new ones. Now, if I cared a lot about errors in a document, I would run it through a spell-checker, which would find the errors autocorrect finds, without introducing new ones, so in the case where I really need correctness, autocorrect in addition to spellcheck only introduces more errors. And if I don't care about errors in my document, I don't need autocorrect either.

  37. What they should understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People should know: Using a computer requires a person to make decisions. Making decisions requires a person to be informed. To be informed means to not only read, but to comprehend on screen messages.

    A person who is neither interested in being informed nor interested in making decisions, or one who doesn't have the werewithal to comprehend what he/she reads, will have a hard row to hoe when it comes time to reap the benefits of computer use. Sadly, this could describe a majority.

    Stay in school kids. Learn to comprehend more than the nuiances of rap songs and street slang.

  38. A Plea for Task-Based Organisation by Dunx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A request for the format of your book - organise the explanations by things people actually use their computers for.

    - writing a letter: how a program starts, how different document formats work, how saving a file puts it onto the hard disc, how printing works

    - looking something up on Google: how the internet works (good luck with that one!), how web sites work, how computers talk to each other over the internet, how firewalls work ... and so on. This kind of task-based organisation should make it easier for the lay person to understand what is going on because they can relate it to something real they actually do.

    --
    Dunx
    Converting caffeine into code since 1982
    1. Re:A Plea for Task-Based Organisation by jgrahn · · Score: 1
      Personally, I hate task-based texts. The tasks they describe never seem to be the ones I want to perform and I'm left, in practice, without any useful documentation at all.

      But was it really a ... for Dummies(TM) type of book the OP wanted to write/have written? Maybe I ready to much into it, but I envisioned something more like a work of popular computer science, perhaps with a bit of sociology and politics.

      I'd like to see such a book. There are bestsellers on quantum physics, chaos theories and the number PI. What's the corresponding book about computer science? All I see seems to be halfhearted mumblings about "ones and zeros". The closest to what I want is Neal Stephenson's In the beginning ... was the command line. It's funny, personal and it assumes an intelligent, interested reader.

      Also, someone should write Edsger Dijkstra's biography.

    2. Re:A Plea for Task-Based Organisation by jgrahn · · Score: 1
      I'd like to see such a book. There are bestsellers on quantum physics, chaos theories and the number PI. What's the corresponding book about computer science?

      Replying to myself: Gödel Escher Bach; an eternal golden braid, of course! Saw an old geezer with a brand new copy of it today, on the train.

    3. Re:A Plea for Task-Based Organisation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure about that. You still have to explain some simple fundamentals. I taught my father a few things but when I was on holiday in Australia, he just couldn't understand how I accessed my email as I wasn't sitting at home in front of my computer...

    4. Re:A Plea for Task-Based Organisation by slysithesuperspy · · Score: 1

      I've seen some adverts on TV for books/magazines like that. It looks a good way to go about it.

  39. Computers are difficult by seizer · · Score: 1


    It's not a very sales-friendly message, but: Mass manufactured desktop computers and software are pretty much a teenage technology, immature and truculent. They are not very robust internally and are full of bugs which will irritate you and potentially be unfixable because proprietary software can only be maintained by its creator. Computers and particularly software is designed by people who not only have little empathy with the average user, but have little inclination or time to fix any problems they may be aware of.

    Computers are going to be difficult to start out with, and all users should expect this. The rewards, of course, are great: control and use of one of the most advanced technologies humankind has ever produced.

  40. Umm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What makes you think a layperson wants to know how a computer works?

  41. Patience by pezak78 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Some where, like in the very beginning of this book, should be a simple statement, that you must have patience to use a computer.

  42. Why not how. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    When using a computer I think people need to know why do I have to do it that way vs how do I do it that way.
    For some beginners scroll bars are confusing when you hit the up button the Text goes down, and when you hit the down button it goes up. You need to explain to them is they are pretending that you are looking at the text like you look threw binoculars when you move them up it looks like the world is going down. Or the Desktop Folder interface scheme.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  43. Explain that computer attacks are not personal by Mr.+Sketch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most people think that computer attacks/hack attempts are personal and thus think 'Nobody would want to hack MY computer'. Explain that these attacks are not personal and are often carried out automatically by an infected computer. Explain that there are only ~4Billion possible internet locations the computer can search and it will only take a few days for a computer to search all possible locations on the internet. Remind them that a computer can do over a billion things a second which is why it can search so many computers locations so quickly.

    1. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by AngelofDeath-02 · · Score: 1

      To add to the previous post ... Be sure to make a distinction between what a firewall protects against, and what an antivirus protects against
      for example, a firewall won't stop spyware - that's not what it is Designed for. An antivirus won't stop a worm from spreading (until it has already done it's damage, because updates are slow to react) but a firewall would.

      --
      No, I am not an English major. My posts are subject to typos and incorrect grammar. Do not expect perfection.
    2. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by Starteck81 · · Score: 1

      I agree. It should also be explained to the average user that there really isn't any difference between taking candy from a stranger in an alleyway and downloading/running strange programs in popup ads. Average EU:"But it said I have virues." Me:"Do you trust a used cars sales man trying to sell you a defective car just because he's dressed up in a suit?" Average EU:"No." Me:"Well ok then." ----- "The world is based not on reality but the perception of reality."

      --
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed H
    3. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by Sir_Cockalot · · Score: 1

      It may not be personal to you, but it sure is hell personal to me when someone tries to hack into my machine. Perhaps a better word is indiscriminate.

      On that note, you can help them out by explaining firewalls and IDS. The good and bad of turning off port 113 etc etc etc.

    4. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by Sebastopol · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wait: if you said there are four billion locations, and then you say computers can do billions of things a second, why can't a computer search all locations in 4 seconds instead of days, like you said?

      See how complicated this discussion becomes....

      --
      https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
    5. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by Blazeix · · Score: 1

      Because a computer can do billions of calculations a second, and it takes many many calculations to hack a computer. You are asking something akin to "If a computer can do billions of calculations a second, why can't it compile a program in a billionth of a second?"

    6. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow... I just don't know where to begin.

      Do I start with the fact that it was obvious the person you replied to already knew this? Or do I assume you are replying to his imaginary uninformed user, and trying to explain it with a reference to a geekly activity like compiling?

      Either way, you are well and truly out of touch, and need to go out and meet people.

    7. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by jc42 · · Score: 1

      [I]f you said there are four billion locations, and then you say computers can do billions of things a second, why can't a computer search all locations in 4 seconds ...?

      Heh. What I'd do is just exlain that it takes more than one operation to do a search; there are several steps involved when a computer wants to connect to another computer. Sorta like it takes several motions to dial a phone number.

      This is why, when you connect a Windows machine to the Internet, it sometimes takes as long as 5 minutes for one of the nasty sites to find your machine, connect to it, and send it an infection.

      And if they ask why my linux or Mac boxes don't get infected, I just explain that they have immune systems.

      Yeah; it's all nonsense. Most metaphors are. But it might convince people who don't want to really learn.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    8. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by jonfelder · · Score: 1

      It may not be personal to you, but it sure is hell personal to me when someone tries to hack into my machine.

      That is exactly the problem. It may be personal to you, but it isn't personal at all. Indiscriminate isn't good enough, because they still feel that through actions they take like not doing online banking or what not they are somehow less attractive of a target.

      I encounter this all the time as a system administrator. I use a strong password policy which includes a dictionary check. When they can't use a certain password, I usually explain why using a password consisting of real words is a problem, they get it but invariably ask, "Why would someone want to hack into my email, it's so boring?"

      They know on a certain level that the attacks are indescriminate because just about everyone has either received a virus or phishing attempt. Some even know the attacks are automated, but they still feel for some reason that the person next door has more interesting info then they do and hence is a more likely target.

    9. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by Sir_Cockalot · · Score: 1

      That is exactly the problem. It may be personal to you, but it isn't personal at all. Indiscriminate isn't good enough, because they still feel that through actions they take like not doing online banking or what not they are somehow less attractive of a target.

      What is exactly the problem?

      I'll say it two ways.

      Anything malicious done to person is personal to them. However, the hacker or thief isn't attacking a person for personal reasons, they're doing it indiscriminately for notoriety or gain.

      A personal attack on someone is done indiscriminately by hackers, but it is personally felt by the individual, so it's personal in one sense and not in another. But no one is discriminated from an attack, everyone is attacked if possible, so it's indiscriminate.

    10. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by jonfelder · · Score: 1

      What is exactly the problem?

      The problem is they often know it's indiscriminate, but think they're safe anyway because they feel their data is boring. That is they know it's indiscriminate but feel it's personal (as you would if you were being hacked).

      They feel that it's indiscriminate in the way that muggings are...that is that the mugger often picks a specific target based on various factors like how easy the person appears to be to mug, or if they are wearing jewelry, but often doesn't know the victim. I know those are discrimating features, but when people think indiscriminate they still think they can prevent the attacks by making the person next to them appear to be the better target.

      They have a hard time grasping that almost all computer attacks occur completely without any regard or consideration to the target whatsoever. That for the most part computers get attacked equally and constantly. That defenses don't stop or prevent the attacks, but instead prevent them from succeeding.

      Saying "non personal" more accurately describes the absolutely indiscriminate (weird, but true) nature of the attacks. That is there absolutely nothing on a personal level they can do to reduce their chances of being attacked.

    11. Re:Explain that computer attacks are not personal by Sebastopol · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know, I was just teasing. :')

      --
      https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  44. Simple ..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just enough to get them in trouble, so I have to fix their machine.

    In this day and age, I need all the job security I can get. If that means users being 'click monkees'(TM), so be it.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go delete the users' home volume, and restore it from last months: just out of spite.

  45. Similar Idea by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 1

    I actually wrote a book like that. My agent is currently shopping it around to publishers. What i did was, I used my parents, who are 60ish, and in my mind, perfect specimens. (My dad always had a secretary and NEVER used a computer) I am a technical writer, so I am used to writing processes at a third grade level linguistically, but I am not used to writing at a third grade level technically. The key to writing an intor text, from my experience, is to write it in such a way that you feel it is insulting to the reader in terms of the basicness. Believe me, I know- I have read physics books that the author likely couldn't believe that he/she was putting in such elementary things, when to me, a layperson, these ideas are complex. It is not easy to write for an audience with zero knowledge about a subject that you know a great deal about.

    --
    And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
  46. PC's for Dummies by Perl-Pusher · · Score: 1

    I just lend people PC for Dummies. I bought it for my mother, and it helped her a lot. I've lent this and a couple of other Dummies books for Office & Windows it usually keeps them from asking the really dumb questions. Except for one individual who has a notebook with written instructions on reading his email. Go to the email icon on the desktop, click twice etc., he is beyond all hope.

  47. Hardly by bobdickgus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If a computer was an appliance like a washing machine they would have been recalled due to faults. You would never except the bugs you do with a computer with an item of white ware.

    --
    Yes i am posting this from work like you.
  48. Starting from a flawed premise by Timesprout · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe most people are capable of understanding computers but most geeks are such shitty communicators they just cant explain things clearly enough, often because they just dont understand the subject well enough themselves half the time.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:Starting from a flawed premise by pclminion · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Maybe most people are capable of understanding computers but most geeks are such shitty communicators they just cant explain things clearly enough, often because they just dont understand the subject well enough themselves half the time.

      A lot of it has to do with the patronizing or downright condescending attitude that many geeks assume while trying to explain things. Believe me -- knowing this shit (or thinking you know it) does not make you Master Of The Universe, nor does it even imply that you are particularly intelligent. When you're having trouble communicating concepts to a non-savvy person, this usually indicates that You Fail It, not that they do.

    2. Re:Starting from a flawed premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, thus I admire people like Leo Laporte who seems to bridge that gap very well. You've got Nick Burns on one side and a typical clueless PHB on the other...with Laporte in between.

    3. Re:Starting from a flawed premise by Sir_Cockalot · · Score: 1

      That's true, but take into account that most savvy users or "geeks" do in naturally, like riding a bike. You can just figure it out and when you have to use a manual extensively, it must be a poorly laid-out application. Too many newbies jump onboard without learning the basics. They need a very elementary explanation of how things work and then progress from there. It's hard to explain those concepts when it's natural to you. Even people I work with think they are savvy, but they really have no grasp on how things work. You have to take them back to step one and that's the how the underpinnings work.

    4. Re:Starting from a flawed premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or,

      Try going up to a university math professor asking him about how to do an integral. Then stop in the middle and ask him about what the + means and what does it do.

      Doesn't the math prof. understand math? or is it you that don't know the basic concepts to be even asking the question you want to ask.

      It is like attempting to administer a database but don't know how to create a folder or don't know what is the "C drive". Try it now. Call Oracle and ask them for help installing their database. Make sure you ask what "My Computer" means or what "C Drive" is or what do they mean by clicking a mouse.

    5. Re:Starting from a flawed premise by quintesse · · Score: 1

      I'm currently living in Spain and being able to pronounce a rrrrolling R is pretty important to be able to make yourself understood in Spanish but I'm just able to do it. So I always meet these helpful people who will spend ages trying to teach me: showing where to put your tongue, how to breath, how to put your lips etc. Thing is I still can't do it and you're saying it's somehow their fault? On the other hand I've seen some very smart and eloquent geek friends of mine stumble trying to explain some very basic things like a CPU or memory to a layman. Knowing them for a long time already I just know it's not because they can't communicate. The thing is they just can't get down to that layman's level anymore! Somehow they can't imagine anymore what it means to know absolutely nothing about a certain subject. And if they do realise what it takes they will also realise it is next to impossible to explain to most laymen exactly how certain things work: you either give enough information and see them fall asleep or you give the short version and get this glass-eyed stare of incomprehension. Of course if you tell them that it would take too long or that they would not understand you're an asshole and if you try your best anyway you're a hopeless nerd for not being able to talk sense. So whatever you do you're fucked :-) Now if only somebody would write a book explaining these things...

    6. Re:Starting from a flawed premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brilliant explanation. Thanks!

    7. Re:Starting from a flawed premise by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Does Oracle charge by the hour? If so, I'd imagine they'd be quite patient.

    8. Re:Starting from a flawed premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's it exactly.It reminds me of when I first purchased a new computer with xp installed.
      I was messing with video settings and everything goes black,I call the place I bought it from and explain everything,the tech guy says go into safe mode, being a newb I said "what's safe mode?".
        He says to me, "Sorry, I feel since you Don't know what safe mode is, you're not qualified to deal with this. You will have to bring it in for service."
      Thankfully I had access to the net at work and when I found out how easy it was to get into safe mode. I was quite pissed off.
      I did phone them back and tore a strip off that a hole.

    9. Re:Starting from a flawed premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yesterday, it took me an hour to get some old fossil to type in his username and password for his e-mail, which he uses every day. Ive done over the phone tech support for the better part of 5 years. I have walked the blind, the deaf, the mentally challanged, and the dreadfully old thru fairly complicated tasks successfully. Despite my skills of clear, simple communication which have been battle hardened on the phones, some people literally turn thier common sense as soon as they get in front of a computer. I blame it on the EMI from the computer. I mean, what else would caus a normally fairly smart individual to turn in to a complete retard in a matter of seconds?

  49. Good luck by revery · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I'd say you have no chance in hell of writing a single book that will tell people like your grandmother and my mom how computers work. A lot of it's bound up in information theory, and if you've never thought about it before, it's a lot like swallowing the red pill and waking up outside of the Matrix, because it legitimately touches on every aspect of your life.

    Having said that, I do wish you luck. Maybe you have such pedagogical skill that I will be proven completely wrong.

  50. Things I'd put in the book... by lju · · Score: 0
    Things I'd like to see in a computer noob book:

    • The differences between "memory": RAM vs HDD vs CD/DVD, etc.
    • An explaination of data storage sizes and how they relate to one another (bits, bytes, kilobytes, megabytes, etc.)
    • Realizing the correct abbreviation to use, like the difference between MBps and Mbps.
    • Bandwidth vs clock speed, and why a faster computer might not be faster on the internet if you're still using a dial-up connection. Also vice versa how upgrading to a cable modem will not make a non networked app run any faster.
    • Ways to tell if you've been infected with spyware or other malware, and how to take steps to prevent/remove that threat.
    • Show that a firewall won't prevent all virus infections.
    • Discuss the importance of setting non-trivial account passwords, and changing the default admin passwords of all networked equipment.
    • Discuss basic wireless network security (WEP/WPA and MAC address filtering.)

    Those are the things I'd include off the top of my head.
    1. Re:Things I'd put in the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is correct then, the standard interpretation of MB as mega bit due to absolute accuracy or the errant yet popular interpretation of MB as mega byte due to its greater size but less accurate measure? Of course it is MB as mega bit but the popularity of MB as mega byte by such as "capital letter means its size is bigger" rather than its true meaning as more accurate prevent this matter from being clarified with uniform and consistent view. For one aware, there are ten who are not.

  51. A succinct book on the subject by c0ma · · Score: 1

    The book "Computer Science: An Overview" by J. Glenn Brookshear provides a good introduction to most aspects of computers and their use, without getting too technical or too vague. Some of the topics aren't really relevant to most users, and reading this book won't help most people know how to use their machine any more effectively. But for the person somewhat interested in what goes on in a computer and why, this book provides a solid grounding of what most computer people are talking about.

  52. Using vs. Understanding by Schlemphfer · · Score: 4, Insightful
    After reading your question it seems you haven't yet made a distinction between the two possible kinds of books you could write. One would be giving the reader a fundamental understanding of how computers work, while the other would be giving them the basic knowledge needed to become either a casual or power user.

    These two books are completely different and you should know which one you're writing, and not mix things up.

    I personally would love a book that explains the basics of how RAM, TCP/IP, USB ports etc. work -- written in a way that somebody with no engineering background can grasp. But from the tone of your question I think what you're really leaning towards writing is a book that lets brand new computer users bypass the clueless stage. For this, you'd want to explain the differences between OSX, Windows, and Linux, and give users a good way to choose. You'd want to acquaint them with the main sorts of applications that exist -- word processors, spread sheets, browsers, etc. Then you'd explain a bit about each, like what a word processor is great at doing (things like on-the-fly spellcheck), and what it sucks at doing (book quality layout.)

    Basically, you want to teach people the fundamentals of using each type of application, and keep them from using a screwdriver as a hammer (using Microsoft Word to typeset a book, for instance.)

    You'd also want to write about the various peripherals you can install, like wireless cards, optical mice, and high-quality video and sound cards.

    And finally, you'd want to make the writing engaging enough that people would actually read your book cover to cover. That's the biggest trick of all, and really, the only hard trick.

    --
    I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
    1. Re:Using vs. Understanding by westlake · · Score: 1
      Basically, you want to teach people the fundamentals of using each type of application, and keep them from using a screwdriver as a hammer (using Microsoft Word to typeset a book, for instance.)

      I'd say the odds that his intended audience will be typesetting a book is about a million to one.

      But they will want to know how to perform the everyday tasks that have kept Word and Publisher the most used apps in our local library.

    2. Re:Using vs. Understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "two possible books"? Is that all? :)

      But we all know how fun binary search can be, so here's another arbitrary partitioning. There are people who don't give a shit about computers, and those who do. Forget about the first group. They are not going to read a book about computers, no matter the tack.

      The second group is motivated to learn something. Where they are on the learning curve should inform the type of book you write. Assuming the book is technical in nature. Most posters to this topic seem to assume this is yet another how it works manual. Don't bother. There are too many of those already.

      Write a different kind of book. Write a book about what it's all about in the first place. Are we all just trying to avoid making a trip to the library? Is it about eschewing the use of stamps to send letters? Is the internet a global melting pot, or does it facilitate isolation and tribalism? Should computers remain general purpose reprogrammable devices, or should we leave it to a handful of oligopolies to tell us what we need and want?

      I sometimes think that as a society, we approach computing ass backwards. We buy one to do something. We spend countless hours tinkering with minutia until everything mostly works. Then, because we've committed so much effort to this process, we never even consider backing up to look at the big picture. We are now part of the cult of Mac, or Windows, or whatever. And we stay there because we're too exhausted to think about doing things any other way.

      Write an introductory "big-picture" book. Forget about scsi/usb/mouse clicks/menu options/blah blah blah. If people can't already find a book about that they are too stupid to use a computer anyway.

      Write a book about why computers are cool. Write a book about where computers came from, and where various constituencies would like them to go. Write a book that helps people understand where they would like to position themselves in this continuum before they dive in and get so lost in details that they can't remember why they're spending so much time on this crap in the first place.

  53. What should people understand about computers? by Decaff · · Score: 1

    I really wish that users understood that when something goes wrong, it stays wrong, and won't be fixed by trying the same thing a dozen times,

  54. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... by brunes69 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...Explain the difference between "memory" and "storage".

    I can not even count the number of times I have said "your computer does not have enough memory for this" and gotten the reply "but it says I have 15 jig-a-bytes free, isn't that a lot?"

    I think this problem is 99.9% the industry's fault for choosing the word "memory" to refer to something stored short-term (should have come up with some new word like 'zoigle'), but anyways...

    1. Re:PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... by boristdog · · Score: 1

      A-men brother. Testify!

      And if people would just describe the symptoms of their problems, instead of trying to diagnose it themselves and telling you what is wrong.

      "The network is down!"
      No, you just don't have rights to look at the company budget.
      "My hard drive is broken!"
      No, you left a floppy in the drive again.

    2. Re:PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... by AngelofDeath-02 · · Score: 1

      another reason for this misconception is the nice handy dandy swap file.......

      People are told that if their harddrive is full their computer will be slow. and really, unless they have an exess of ram, it will be.

      And the easiest rebuttle to "but it says I have 15 gig-a-bytes free, isn't that a lot?" is: yes, but you have more than one kind of memory, and this one isn't big enough. - of course they will still persist, but you can't defeat that, they aren't listening.

      --
      No, I am not an English major. My posts are subject to typos and incorrect grammar. Do not expect perfection.
    3. Re:PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

      Many older boxes *had* no peripheral storage (disk, drum) at all -- just magnetic core memory and some means of feeding cmoputer instructions and data in and out (usually a static medium such as punched cards, tape, or switches resident on the main panel).

      Because of this, the term "memory" made sense -- it was the only place where the machine could dynamically store information or code in a manner which was easily accessible to the CPU, and in that sense it was roughly analogous to a human's brain. You fed the computer a program to run and perhaps some accompanying data, it remembered that program and associated data long enough to process it, and then it replaced that code/data with other code/data when the next processing task came along.

      When long-term storage came along and two different dynamic storoge areas becamse commonly available, the term made somewhat less sense unless you differentiate CPU-addressible storage from peripheral storage and call the former "memory" (since the main CPU/brain of the system can only see that type of storage directly).

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    4. Re:PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... by boingo82 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      A non-car analogy:

      Suppose you're in a big library, books all the way up to the ceiling and surrounding you. This is your hard drive. Every bit of data on the computer is written into one of these books and filed away. The size of your HD determines how big your library is.

      Your computer has a table in the middle of the library. Any time you want to work on a project, the computer hauls down all the necessary books and lays them out on the table to read, and write in. This is your RAM, and the amount of RAM you have determines the size of the table - how much information can be hauled out at once.

      If your table is not big enough for whatever you're doing, the computer will have to temporarily put back a book, take one down, put that one back, take the first one down, etc. This is "virtual memory", and it is obviously slower than just having a big enough table.

      Whatever you're working on is strewn all over your table, and you have the choice to throw it all out when you're done, or to file it in the library for future use. (saving).

      The caveat is that your computer will put each new book in the first empty spot it finds on the shelf. Sometimes this means one book here, one there, etc. Next time your computer wants to look at that series of books, it has to check the card catalog, and haul them out from all over the library. This is "fragmentation" - if you "defragment" your hard drive, your computer sorts through the library and puts like books together. It will even put the books you read a lot on the bottom shelf, and the ones you rarely need way up on top.

      It's not perfect, but I use some variation on that to explain RAM vs HD to my husband.

      --
      As a republican I feel it my responsibity to manufacture criminals. People need punished!
    5. Re:PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... by jonfelder · · Score: 1

      In my experience I've noticed that most people do this because both things are measured using the same units (i.e. bytes). In fact the typical response when I ask people why they have trouble discerning the two is, "Well they're both measured in bytes aren't they?"

      The confusion ends when I ask them if they think a gallon of milk and gallon of blood are the same thing. Typically works every time.

  55. the top three things by sammy+baby · · Score: 1

    Drawn from repeated conversations with family, the top three things that I wish novices knew:

    1. Just because you saw it on the Internet doesn't make it true. This applies equally to politics, science, and "YOUR COMPUTER HAS BEEN INFECTED BY SPYWARE! CLICK HERE TO REMOVE!" (reference: my aunt, who spent about thirty bucks downloading sketchy looking "web accelerator" software because a popup told her that she needed it desperately.)

    2. Messages/windows/random stuff which appears on your screen does so as a result of programs running on your computer. Sometimes they're from the operating system, sometimes from a program you launched, and sometimes from software which is trying to hide from you. Your first hint that something is wrong here will often be, "Huh. I wonder where that window came from?" (reference: the countless tech support calls I've had from people who failed to connect the porn adverts appearing from out of nowhere with the "one thousand cool smiley-faces in your email!!!!!" software they downloaded.)

    3. It's surprisingly easy to render a computer completely inoperable. Back up your data accordingly, and make sure you have easy access to your install/rescue media. (reference: personal experience)

    1. Re:the top three things by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      I've given up trying to explain this stuff to non-techies. They're on their own. If they're the sort who has to ask questions, they won't stop asking questions.

      My father asks "I think the computer you gave me is out of date, it tells me that I don't have the required component to view this website" (to paraphrase)

      Rather than explaining software installation and politics of the browser wars, I could only tell him that the machine has been configured to balance safety against ease of use and that the company who designed the website he visited doesn't respect that concept. That is, yes, the site is broken, the computer is fine.

      I did delve into a bit of the politics, only to say that corporations will probably start taking security and privacy seriously on the Internet in the next five years or so, until then, these problems will crop up from time to time.

      He then called the company by telephone and completed the transaction anyway. Very practical. He still got done what he needed to get done.

      If I told him to use IE, I couldn't possibly begin to describe how he could protect himself from trashing the machine, and I couldn't tell him how to know when to launch IE and when not to.

      I can't even recommend an email account for him because SPAM has become such an immense problem that email is useless to him. SPAM, viruses, malware and IE have made the Internet very, very dangerous and complex to those learning computer literacy.

    2. Re:the top three things by sammy+baby · · Score: 1
      I've given up trying to explain this stuff to non-techies. They're on their own. If they're the sort who has to ask questions, they won't stop asking questions.

      Oh, I agree. But the issue isn't that they're asking questions. I appreciate that tons of people are tired of countless tech support calls, but that's not really what I'm after.

      What I want to do is to see people stop making snap decisions which, to a techie, are obviously, horribly, wrong. Just to the point where they think, "Hey, maybe I should check with someone who knows about this stuff before I [ buy software I don't need | install this spyware | fail to back any of my stuff up ]" Just a little bit of thought, enough for someone to pull back and say, "I'm out of my league and need help."

      My father asks "I think the computer you gave me is out of date, it tells me that I don't have the required component to view this website"

      That sounds like IE's "You must install additional components to display this web page" error. When it's happened to me, it's because I was on some gadget site or another and followed a link to a page which wanted to render some Japanese characters.
  56. It's what they think they know that REALLY hurts by un1xl0ser · · Score: 1

    I don't get fed up with a lack of knowldege of users. That would be like a mechanic getting fed up with me when I bring my car in. I get sick of when users they pretend that they know things. Explain the symptoms to me, then I determine what the problem is.

    Once teacher in high school had a problem and asked me to run the anti-virus scanner. I did, then told him it was done. He then explained to me that he couldn't print, and that was the real problem. I looked and the printer was out of ink. I told him to buy some more ink.

    --
    v4sw6PU$hw6ln6pr4F$ck 4/6$ma3+6u7LNS$w2m4l7U$i2e4+7en6a2X h
  57. My Granny by turgid · · Score: 5, Funny

    When I was 8, I got a computer for Christmas. My granny said to me, "Ask it who the Prime Minister is!"

    1. Re:My Granny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:My Granny by tpgp · · Score: 4, Funny

      When I was 8, I got a computer for Christmas. My granny said to me, "Ask it who the Prime Minister is!"

      Hmmmmn,

      If only there was some way to connect your computer to the rest of the world's computers and somehow query them to find out who the prime minister is.

      Hey! Thats a great idea - I'm off to patent it ;-)

      --
      My pics.
    3. Re:My Granny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what'd it say?

    4. Re:My Granny by turgid · · Score: 1

      So what'd it say?

      "LS" in inverse video, IIRC.

    5. Re:My Granny by kruzty1x · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was working in a medical office building near the front lobby, some teenager walks up to me and points to my monitor and asks "Is my mom in there?"

    6. Re:My Granny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Computers are useless - they can only give you answers.
      -Pablo Picasso

    7. Re:My Granny by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      And if there were also some way of receiving elicit photography for private viewing in one's home. I predict this will happen in the far-off year of 1975 and it will be called the Discotron!

    8. Re:My Granny by ch-chuck · · Score: 2, Funny

      Joke time: An old general, disgruntled over the amount of $$$ being spent on computers in the Pentagon (this was in the 50's) storms into the computer room and accosts an operator. "I want you to ask this newfangled machine, is it going to be peace or war!". The operator, thinking quickly, punches up a deck and puts it in the hopper. Shortly the printers clanks out, "Yes". The general reads this and bellows, "Yes, what?". The operator puts another card in the desk and feeds it in. This time the printer clanks out, "Yes, Sir!".

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    9. Re:My Granny by damiam · · Score: 1

      Or even better, illicit pornography.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    10. Re:My Granny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you live in Canada, and you ask google, "Who is the prime minister?" and click "I'm feeling lucky", you will get the correct answer.

      Good for almost a whole 'nother week.

    11. Re:My Granny by FhnuZoag · · Score: 1

      I don't know who the Prime Minister is, but I do know he killed Kennedy.

    12. Re:My Granny by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 1

      She may have been thinking of an old movie from 1957 -- Desk Set! Where a computer completely replaces a research department and answers similar questions.

    13. Re:My Granny by 1310nm · · Score: 1

      The correct answer would have been "42"!

  58. computer fact #02 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The mouse is NOT a footpedal.

  59. RAM by IceCreamGuy · · Score: 0

    People need a good explanation of system latencies other than those pertaining to the processor speed; things like FSB speeds and the arrangements of devices off the north and south bridges. I feel like there's so much judgement passed on a system based on just that one aspect that people have no way of knowing what type of system they're buying or using. People need to start paying attention to RAM and FSB speeds as well as HDD and peripheral interfaces. They also need a good explanation of bit depth in different parts of a system. The average user doesn't know what the difference between a 24-bit and 16-bit souncard is, and they don't know how a 64-bit processor differs from a 32-bit one. I think a good book that explains these things in a simple, easy to understand fashion would be a great asset to the casual computer user/comsumer. (I'm not saying it will be easy to write though) :)
                                              -Julius

  60. "Downloading" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone who doesn't know a thing about computers uses the word "download" to mean any kind of data transfer from one piece of hardware to another. To my wife, for example, you "download" a pic to a server on the Internet. (To her I respond, "No, you UPLOAD it"). Or if I transfer a file from one of our computers to another, she still calls it "download". Or even if I install a program from a CD, my wife still calls it "downloading".

  61. And what's more... by Orrin+Bloquy · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...he knew how to treat a female impersonator!

    joke, waste your mod points elsewhere

    --
    "Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on /. and I must look smart."
  62. You know what I wish? by iceT · · Score: 1

    I wish we could get royalties for developing the outline for your book.. that's what I wish..

    --
    -- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
  63. What the computer IS. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Define that the monitor is not the computer, and the computer is not the monitor.

  64. You're not alone; lots of engineers are behind you by quibbler · · Score: 1

    A user isn't alone in their efforts to understand any modern technical system. In fact, there is an army of user-interface designers trying very hard to make this 'simple and straightforwards' to reduce the number of tech-support calls. Any computer, toaster, or VCR that's half-well-designed wants to be understood, if you'll forgive my personification.

    So... Don't fight them! More often than not, people have assumed a machine/task is difficult long before making an attempt (and indirectly working with the army of engineers helping them).

  65. A computer isn't what it does by cretog8 · · Score: 1

    Generally, people who don't want to get into a device think about the device as it's function. A dishwasher is a machine which washes dishes, and most people won't think very hard about how the motors and pumps and timers work. A car is a machine which takes you and your stuff from here to there, etc. Form follows function, and a car is designed to take you from here to there reasonably safely and comfortably.

    The problem is that a computer *isn't* like this, at least not for most people, not yet. A computer may be the machine you use to check your email or browse the web, but that's really not what it *is*. A computer isn't designed to browse the web, it's designed to run software. Some of that software includes web browsers.

    I think that's a big part of why people have trouble with computers. They want to know, "why doesn't my computer just *work*?" And the answer is that it's really hard to even say what that means for a computer. It's a general-purpose device. Companies which sell systems sometimes try to package the computer as an appliance with some finite number of functions, but without making the whole thing run off ROM and denying the user the chance to do new fun stuff, it's really not an appliance.

  66. My thoughts by digidave · · Score: 1

    "history of the Internet, how computers talk to each other, what a hard drive does, etc."

    I think you should skip most of that. At least keep them extraordinarily brief. History of the Internet shouldn't be more than two sentences. How computers talk should be about one sentence explaining that it's exactly like how people talk on telephones, but computers use computer sounds instead of voices. A hard drive is a file cabinet where your computer stores documents.

    Any more complicated than that and your book won't be any better than existing books. Few new computer users even care about that sort of thing, so get it out of the way in "additional information" bubbles or something like that.

    You need to provide the content that techies normally answer for their families:

    1. How do I attach a photo to an email (provide examples in Outlook, Outlook Express, Hotmail, Thunderbird, etc).

    2. What are viruses and how can I stop them? Explain a virus in terms of a biological virus that humans get. Some are like colds that go away and others are like cancer that kill your computer. Provide a link to AVG Free with screen captures detailing how to keep it updated.

    3. Installing new computer accessories. Everybody buys a digital camera or a printer that comes with a CD. Explain the steps involved for setting up most printers and digital cameras. Show exactly what a USB cable and port looks like as well as a serial cable and port. Most beginners do not know this and many are afraid to plug anything into their computers. Tell them that making a mistake won't harm their computer because cables can't fit where they don't belong.

    4. Direct people to places where they can get good free software for things such as creating calendars and photo albums.

    5. Keep your book directed at Windows users. Even if you love Macs it's too hard to provide this information about more than one OS without confusing readers who only know their computer is a Dell. You'll need to instruct them how to tell which email client they have, what the icon looks like, etc.

    6. Show people how to clean up their desktop by deleting unused icons. Windows sort of does this, but not in an intuitive way. Many beginners and even intermediate users won't delete icons from their desktop and have trouble finding things because of it.

    I'm sure I could think of more. I gave my mom an Ubuntu Linux PC in August for her birthday. She's 65 and it's the first computer she's ever used. She has never once asked me how the Net works or about the history of computers. She just wants to send email, look at digital photos she takes and send them to people. Other than for Gmail she doesn't really use the Net at all.

    It might be a good idea to separate your book into beginner and advanced topics. Beginner topics discuss how to do basic things like attaching photos to email while advanced topics can include creating online photo albums for family, removing red eye from photos, etc.

    --
    The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
    1. Re:My thoughts by Budenny · · Score: 1

      This is so true, and in a way very funny. The only thing I would add is, tell them how to do some simple things in common apps. Like, Word or Excel. When to use Excel for a list, and when to use Word. Why not to use 3 or four tabs to indent in Word. Why not to use spaces to indent in Word. Or OO for that matter. What a database is, when you need one. What the difference is between when you need a flat one, and when only relations will do. What a text editor is. Good luck with it. If its any good I will buy several copies and pass them out. How much cheaper it would be than the alternative....

    2. Re:My thoughts by tverbeek · · Score: 1
      History of the Internet shouldn't be more than two sentences.

      An extended explanation of how the internet began, how it grew, and how it became what it is now would be fascinating... well, at least it was to my casually-techy former boyfriend. But to most people it's about as interesting and useful as a history of ballroom dancing would be to your typical geek.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    3. Re:My thoughts by AceCaseOR · · Score: 1
      As another possibilty, at the end of each chapter, put the titles and/or URLs of web sites with information relevent to the chapter's contents, stuff like "If you want to learn more about the history of the Internet, there are these other books you may enjoy."

      Also, try to get the book published by a more mainstream publisher, not O'Reilly. If you can get it published as a "...For Dummies" or an "Idiot's Guide to..." even better. Neophytes tend to go straight to those. O'Reilly books just don't have the right amount of recognition a book like this would need to be really helpful.

      --
      Zagreus sits inside your head, Zagreus lives among the dead, Zagreus sees you in your bed and eats you in your sleep.
    4. Re:My thoughts by Malc · · Score: 1

      ""history of the Internet, how computers talk to each other, what a hard drive does, etc."

      I think you should skip most of that. At least keep them extraordinarily brief. "


      Exactly. Furthermore, why would one's parents even care about the history of these things? Knowing the history of the automobile doesn't help me drive, even if the history covers technical details like double-declutching. I think this might be the wrong forum to ask this question. Surely the opinions of non-technical non-geeky people who know how to use computers should be evaluated.

    5. Re:My thoughts by usrusr · · Score: 1

      "I think you should skip most of that. At least keep them extraordinarily brief."

      I deeply disagree with that: there are already tons of "click by click" books for all those everyday tasks and they are all hughely successfull at keeping the users as dumb as possible while operating the core set of applications described.

      I really think that people should hear about the difference between the internet and the web - no technical details, but that "history of the internet" chapter will greatly help giving context and it could even be a joy to read (because of said lack of technical details).

      Another important chapter would be "UI principles", introduce all those concepts like windows (this is where the OS allows an app to paint, not much more needed to be known about OS imho), buttons (make the computer do something), menus, drag&drop. This would not have to be long and i think something about the historical development could also make it more interesting to read.

      Insanely important (and not too difficult) to understand is the difference between data and code - and the perfect way to explain security holes: "security holes are when data becomes code where it is not supposed to". This would be a very accurate description that still does not require any more technical understanding.

      The obvious "don't trust email", i think we all agree how important that is to tell to the computer illiterate.

      A last chapter, and i'm not sure if it would really make any sense, could be something about the relationship between a programmer and his code, still nothing technical, just something to give a feeling for how we try to handle complexity, what's easy to do and what's not, maybe in the form of a few interview snippets with programmers of well known freeware apps or something like that

      --
      [i have an opinion and i am not afraid to use it]
  67. filesystem by danielDamage · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I teach a basic web development class, and my students often have a spotty understanding of computers in general.

    The one foundational skill that I think cripples computers users, is the understanding of the filesystem. I think the most common source of confusion with computers is "where did it go? it was just here!".

    People download and save files to the default location, and then hope it's in "My Documents" somewhere. But they don't know how to navigate to "My Documents" (C:\Documents and Settings\Username\My Documents). When people understand it's a tree and how to find it's trunk, their eyes light up with sheer user power.

    --
    Slices, dices, eats your lunch.
    1. Re:filesystem by veg_all · · Score: 1

      C:\Documents and Settings\Username\My Documents

      Gee, thanks! If only I'd known this ten years ago.

      --
      grammar-lesson free since 1999. (rescinded - 2005)
  68. Oblig. Simpsons by truthsearch · · Score: 5, Funny

    Homer: Now then... computer.. kill Flanders!
    Ned: Did I hear my name? My ears are burning!
    Homer: [whispering to mouse] That's a good start, now finish the job!
    Ned: Oh, you're busy. Catch you later, compu-tator!
    Homer: Oh, five thousand dollars for a computer and it can't even handle a simple assignment!

    1. Re:Oblig. Simpsons by TerenceRSN · · Score: 1

      Where's my Tab?

    2. Re:Oblig. Simpsons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fatal error: Access denied for user: 'dbo105101014@%' to database 'db105101014' query: INSERT INTO seenonslash_sessions (sid, uid, hostname, timestamp) VALUES ('e9902e1bb43d1e233e272530e5abaaad', 0, 'ha.ha.ha.ha', 1137682893) in /homepages/41/d105055616/htdocs/drupal-4.6.5/inclu des/database.mysql.inc on line 66

      Yes, truly excellent comments

  69. Zen and the art of microcode by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 4, Funny

    Page 1: reference list of book opcodes
    Page 2: program to produce page 2 text ...
    Page N: md5 sums of pages 2-N used to check for possible reading comprehension problems
    Epilogue: "Now grasshopper is one with computer."

    Now that's a book that will let them know what computers are all about.

    1. Re:Zen and the art of microcode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Now that's a book that will let them know what computers are all about.

      And fun to read, too! :)

  70. Above all ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Computers are dumb objects.

    Let me explain that. During the course of my studies for my degree, I found out *what* computers are made of and how they do what they do. Just electrons falling through metal ... a big-ass path of "decisions". That's all.

    People need to at least understand it's not a magic box ... there is no "thinking" the box does on its own.

  71. Audience by black_shadow201 · · Score: 0

    Remember, before writting, know your audience. Who is this book going to be tailored too? 40+ people with little or no knowledge of computers, 8-14 year olds who want to learn the in's and out's of a computer (possibly future /. readers), the list goes on. I know when I was young, I learned computer hardware by playing with old machines, but not everyone learns like that. So a simplistic detailed book may be good for them. On the other hand, my parents need a step-by-step instruction on how to do anything on a computer. So they might was a book that has a list of step-by-step instructions on how to do some simple and some not so simple tasks. Just my opinion....

  72. 50 percent of gross sells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    okay, you want us to help you write a book for the layman so that you can claim it as yours!! I want 50 percent of gross sells before giving you advise.

  73. One simple request by a tech-support agent... by Sr.+Pato · · Score: 1
    What Should People Understand About Computers?

    All I ask is that people read Windows XP for Dummies or the equivalent for their OS before actually going out and purchasing a computer. Yes, they are, for the most part easy to use, but so are cars... though you're required to get a license for a reason. Don't buy a frick'n computer if you don't even know how to run an installer program to walk you through setting up your Anti-Virus. If you want to learn and don't know anything yet, that's fine... then learn. Don't call your ISP when Internet Explorer keeps crashing and asks you to send an error report.
    --
    Nobody's gay for Mole-Man. :-(
  74. Dont kick it... by maxzilla · · Score: 1

    include a bit about basic maintanance. I'd say 50% of all my jobs are due to user caused damage (kicking the machine, pulling cables out roughly, bent pins) include a bit about care and maintanace!

  75. so people by Hangin10 · · Score: 1

    should get A+ certified?

  76. Systems requirements vs actual system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I constantly get calls, "I can't play this game/load this software."
    Tell people how to check thier proc. speed (also helps ebay fraud).
    Tell people hot to check thier memory (vs. hard drive, see above posts).
    How to read the bottom of the box thier software came with BEFORE they purchase.
    Real world example: Microsofts latest flight simulater will not work on an 800 Mhz machine even after buying that Radeon 9600, removing 2000 for windows XP and upgrading to 512 ram. Expensive lesson. $5-$600 bucks later, you realize you could have overnighted a brand new Dell to fix your problem for $350.

  77. ipods, cellphones, TiVO, etc by peter303 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When the "computer as an appliance" becomes hidden behind an applied interface, then it ceases being called a computer. Ipods, cellphones, TiVo, etc. have more hardware and software than gneral computers more than 5-10 years ago. But the "computerness" is somewhat hidden in the appliance.

  78. Ideally they should need to know nothing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do your parents need to understand Electrodynamics to use a toaster?
    Do they need to know how to set the timing on an internal combustion engine to drive?

    The point is that unless you are on the engineering side or on the repair side you need only limited knowledge.
    What's needed is not a book to teach the basics, but a book which can provide linkage to bits of information that are needed.

  79. Tell them not to throw out words just cuz... by FrontalLobe · · Score: 0

    I think what you really need to tell people is not to assume things. Its been mentioned memory!=disk space and cpu!=the whole system...

    Tell them to take a deep breath, and admit they do not understand this stuff. When asking for help, ask "I need more space for music, what can I do?" and not "If I upgrade my memory, can I store more music?"

    --
    -FL
  80. Obvious stuff for normal people of course. by dascandy · · Score: 1

    > What does the general public think they understand, but really don't?"

    That's the main question in this thing, and that's what the book shouldn't be aimed at. These things change over time so if you write them in, your book is as dated as "Learn yourself Windows 3.11 in 24 hours".

    Stuff they think they know:
    Every computer runs Windows.
    Everybody can install the drivers that come with the hardware, that's what they're for right?
    All stuff in shops works in Windows on a PC.
    When your computer slows down it's natural and you just need to reinstall.
    Computer hackers destroy computers and are only bad guys.
    Programming is very hard, near impossible.
    When Windows fails you call out your nearest computer nerd and tell him to fix it. Every computer nerd claims to know a computer, so he should at least know how to fix Windows.
    Rebooting is considered a way of fixing stuff.
    Microsoft file formats are accessible for everybody.
    Computer software is only decent if you have to pay for it, but you shouldn't pay but get it off the intarweb, that's cheaper.
    Flash websites are better than XHTML websites.

    You know, stuff that would make you ignore somebody instead of answering them.

  81. It's not a Virus! by Denagoth · · Score: 1

    Every user I've ever met whose 2+ year-old Windows installation is limping along because of (1) all of the crap they've loaded on their system and (2) all of the "patches" that Micro$oft has courteously given them SWEARS their problem is a virus. Actually, anytime anything goes wrong, the average user guesses "virus!". The fact of the matter is that computers require MAINTENANCE and CARE just like anyother system. That means re-loading a Windoze OS every 2 years, removing lost files (.chk or lost+found), defragmenting, cleaning off spyware, etc.

  82. Simple Rules by Billosaur · · Score: 1
    1. Email - Don't open email from people you don't know or addresses you don't recognize; if you do recognize them, read them thoroughly first and do not click on anything in the email until you are sure it is actually from the sender and not a virus sent from their address book. If you're not sure, send them an email (do not forward!) asking them if they sent it.
    2. IMs - See Email
    3. Don't try this at home Unless you're knowledgeable about these things, do not try to set up firewalls, home networks, etc. without assistance. Find someone who knows these things.
    4. Bad people will try to attack you - Set your virus scanner to automatically update your definitions daily. Install a firewall. Don't buy online except from well-known and trusted sources. Get, use, and update anti-spyware.
    5. Keep up to date on events in cyberspace - visit computer news sites, Slashdot, anti-virus websites (using RSS where possible). Be on the lookout for the latest happenings (phishing atacks, Trojans, viruses, etc.). Ask someone for help if you are not sure.
    My two copper coins.
    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
  83. People should know... by Slipgrid · · Score: 1

    People should understand that a computer can only do a few things. It will read data, write data, some i/o, and some processing.

    I wish one of my clients could understand that an ip address is like a phone number. If he has a hosted and remote server running his email with one domain name, that he can't run a webserver at his office using the same domain name.

    Boole's and Shannon's insight is that all information about a comptuer problem can be expressed using only two nouns. They are zero and one, or on and off, or high-voltage and low-voltage.

    I wish people were not scared of their computer. Many people never learn to use a computer well, because they are afraid they will break it.

    GUI does not equal Windows!

    Updates are important!

    IE does not equal Internet!

    Many people can't tell when they are online and when they are not.

    MS is not your friend... so stop giving them money

    I think the public should know more about DRM issues and patent issues.

    I could go on, but...

  84. Use reliable sources for info and educate yourself by digitaldc · · Score: 1

    1. Sounds sad to say, but in this day and age, you can't trust anybody just because what they say sounds intelligent or correct. Rather, you have to read about file and password security, computer protection, sharing data, and staying up to date with the latest trends and advances from reliable sources. Verify that what you are being told is true, preferrably from a knowledgeable human being.

    2. Take a class in basic computing, using email, the internet, installing software and hardware and general computer maintenance. You can learn a lot from a knowledgeable instructor, and chances are you will have notes and books of what you have learned for future reference.

    3. Read slashdot.com, cnet.com, search wikipedia and many other informative sites like this one.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  85. Things that I can't make people understand by Alchemar · · Score: 1

    1. That when an AV program tags your email (EMAIL CONTAINS VIRUS) that it does NOT mean that it is now OK to read the email because the AV program "fixed it"! 2. That just because you don't notice your computer running faster after I search the registry to remove gator, that it is now safe to reinstall weatherbug! 3. A firewall does not enable you to safely turn on every neat flash, activeX, java, or any other "cute" program that "you want to show me" "that you found on the internet". I would personally like a good analogy with a bullet proof vest and taking a bullet between the eyes.

    1. Re:Things that I can't make people understand by Alchemar · · Score: 2, Funny

      1. That when an AV program tags your email (EMAIL CONTAINS VIRUS) that it does NOT mean that it is now OK to read the email because the AV program "fixed it"!

      2. That just because you don't notice your computer running faster after I search the registry to remove gator, that it is now safe to reinstall weatherbug!

      3. A firewall does not enable you to safely turn on every neat flash, activeX, java, or any other "cute" program that "you want to show me" "that you found on the internet". I would personally like a good analogy with a bullet proof vest and taking a bullet between the eyes.

      4. How to use HTML or a preview button.

  86. Understand people first by lmh2671772 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    People don't want to read manuals, and people sure as heck don't want to read books.

    Why doesn't this dang computer work??!? Can you fix it for me?

    People know how to do that.

  87. this may be mission impossible by Dan112476 · · Score: 1
    Honestly, I don't think anyone will be able to pull this off because there are just too many people out there who are too unwilling/unable to 'get it'. Case in point, a call from an average sales person I actually recieved last week:

    USER: Hey, my email seems to have stopped working so I looked in my control panel and both my LAN connection and my 1394 connection are enabled.

    ME: And?

    USER: And how do I fix that?

    ME: *FOREHEAD SLAP*

  88. Computers are bad, m'kay? by BorgCopyeditor · · Score: 1

    You shouldn't use computers. Computers are bad, m'kay? If you use computers, which are bad, you're bad, m'kay? And that's bad.

    --
    Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
  89. You need to blame Turing and Von Neumann by localroger · · Score: 1

    Disk and RAM storage are both called "memory" because in information theory terms they are different meatspace arrangements for doing exactly the same thing -- storing bits of information so that you can read them back. Early computer scientists didn't make much of a distinction because for one reason those early machines often used magnetic disk or drum storage the way we now use RAM. And early personal computers had no fixed disk storage, only floppy disks (if they even had those) which nobody would confuse with memory installed in the machine. So the terminology problem that was created before 1950 really didn't become a problem for average users until around 1990.

    --
    Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
    1. Re:You need to blame Turing and Von Neumann by HaveNoMouth · · Score: 1
      It's not really their fault; it's because we don't have a memory technology that's all three of:
      • A. Nonvolatile
      • B. Cheap per byte
      • C. Fast
      Hard disks are A and B; RAM is C. Flash is the only thing we have that is sort of all three, but it's not yet cheap enough or fast enough. Eventually, we'll develop a technology that has all three attributes and the distinction will go away.
  90. Why not start with by Mycroft_514 · · Score: 1

    The Computers Merit Badge Phanplet, available at any Scout shop nation wide. You can drop some of it, but it has a lot of good stuff in it for your task.

    And if you are going to do a history, don't start with the internet, get some paper tape, some punched cards, and some old floppy disks (8", 5.25" and 3.5") to show how far we have come over the years.

  91. Noooooo!!!!! by MahariBalzitch · · Score: 0

    The problems the average dumbass create on their pc is how I make money. Don't go teaching them shit and fuck it up for me!!!

  92. Its really not necessary.... by pitboss8881 · · Score: 1

    Brayton Cycle => Gas Turbines
    Otto or Diesel Cycle => Cars

    1. Re:Its really not necessary.... by spitek · · Score: 1

      Funny how Automobile and Otto Cycle have no connection. Or do they?

    2. Re:Its really not necessary.... by StressGuy · · Score: 1

      Brayton Cycle => Most internal combustion engines which, when plotted on a T-S diagram looks like a curvy trapezoid that is larger on the right side. The upper and lower curves ideally represent isobars, but there are losses of course.

      Otto Cycle => Diesel

      There is also a three-sided cycle that covers pulse jets, but I forget the name.

      --
      A goal is a dream with a deadline
    3. Re:Its really not necessary.... by pitboss8881 · · Score: 1

      Otto Cycle : Ideal cycle for spark ignition engines
      History: Named after Nikolaus A. Otto, who built a successful four-stroke engine in Germany in 1876.
      Steps:
      1) Isentropic compression
      2) Constant volume heat addition
      2) Isentropic Expansion
      4) Constant volume heat rejection
      see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_cycle

      Diesel Cycle: Ideal cycle for compression ignition engines
      History: Named after Rudolph Diesel who first produced a compression ignition engine in the 1890s
      Steps:
      1) isentropic compression
      2) isobaric heat addition
      3) isentropic expansion
      4) constant volume heat rejection.
      see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_cycle

      Brayton Cycle: Ideal cycle for Gas Turbine Engines
      History: First proposed by George Brayton in 1870
      Steps:
      1) Isentropic Compression
      2) Isobaric heat addition
      3) Isentropic expansion
      4) Isobaric heat rejection
      see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brayton_cycle

  93. Kill the mystery by sbenj · · Score: 1
    The main thing I see among non-savvy computer users is that the thing is a mystery to them. By that I don't mean just that they don't understand it (we're assuming that we're talking about people that don't understand it) but that they ascribe to it such terrifying complexity that along with the lack of understanding goes the assumption that they will never scale its Olympian heights( Of course this does help us all get paid better).

    But.
    This is much like math anxiety. It's not just the subject, it's the fear. Most people so fully assume that it's beyond them that their first reaction is to fall helpless to the floor.

    When I used to do tech support, I used to tell people that the thing wasn't complicated (at least not conceptually), just big. That is, there's just not, for the average MS Word user, much to figure out. Hit this button, that happens. Hit thatbutton, that other thing happens( repeat 1000 times). It's like dealing with a dishwasher with 1000 buttons. Nobody things they know what all the buttons do, but it's a dishwasher, for chrissakes, if you only know the 5 buttons you need you're fine and you don't give yourself an inferiority complex worrying about the other 995.

    Thinking the thing is so deep is the problem. The knowledge domain for IS-type stuff is wide but shallow- lots of things to know, lots of disconnected facts, not much depth to them. Compare this to say, writing a novel, where the knowledge required is narrow (very few "things' to know-think of what you wnat to write and write it) but very deep. The wide knowledge looks hard to people when in fact it's conceptually very shallow.

    And that's why most people think they can't use a computer but can and most people think they can write a novel but can't.

  94. What kind of understanding do you want? by digital+photo · · Score: 1

    I think the problem with the question you and anyone who is apt and able with computers has is that there is literally two worlds: the computer world and its history and the normal world. The normal world is aware of devices which allows them to do things differently. Ie, word processing is a task which is done one a variety of devices like typewriters, wordprocessors, and computers. In such a case, a computer is just a huge expensive word processor/typewriter. This is completely different from the normal world user who may use their "computer" to just do email, surf the web, and chat. In that person's case, the computer is just a way to keep in touch and get the news. Define your scope. Otherwise, you will literally have to feed the other person the entire world history of computers. There are dedicated fields to such topics. A couple of them are called world history and anthropology. What do you want your family member to understand, exactly? Why do they need to know? The word computer just means something that computes. But that is meaningless to a lay person. In an ideal world, people wouldn't need to know what's going on inside of the computer. (Ie, Apple's view, most "computer" devices and portables, etc) If you really want her to learn what a computer is, enroll her in post-adult education in computer science. The formalized course will introduce her to concepts which forms the basis of computer theory. This will, in turn, lead to a better understanding of why computers work the way they do and what it is that they do: automate repetitive tasks, present simple interfaces to overly complex tasks, or whatever you want them to do. You don't need to understand what a computer is and how it works to derive enjoyment and use out of it. But you do need that understanding to make the most out of it.

  95. Actual Email From My Dad by dwayner79 · · Score: 1

    Hi Dwayne,

    Hope you're having a great day. I tried to put pictures into a folder
    and ended up with a screen full of icons on the "desktop".

    So, please call this evening before '24' and get me cleaned up.

    Thanks, Dad

    He does not need to know what an internet is... he needs simple exercises with moving files. Getting them comfortable with moving files and how to open programs/etc.

    --
    Religion and politics, without the flame. godgab.org
  96. Bug vs Feature you don't like. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    "Your computer represents the work of literally millions of people, from hardware to software, that have worked virtually independently of one another to create a complete product. The fact that it works at all is a miracle. Please don't complain if something isn't to your liking."

  97. This May Surprise You by tidewaterblues · · Score: 1

    Some of these may surpise you:

    0. What an operating system is: Most people think OS == computer, and so they fail to appreciate the degree of flexability that their computer actually offers them. If they understood that OS != computer then they would be more open to a FOS OS.

    0.5. The idea that there is a division between userspace (things I can do) kernelspace (things the computer does). This is useful because it leads naturally into a discussion of root/administrator and other system accounts, why they are there and why they should be protected. It would also debuse people of the notion that their computers are not safe just because they are on, but not "doing anything". It also is a good segway into "what a driver is".

    1. WHOIS and DNS basics: If more people used it, we wouldn't have as much phishing as we do now, because they would not implicity trust URLs.

    2. Include a big chapter on all of the easy ways that passwords can be cracked, stolen, guessed, etc. Most people don't appreciate how much information you can steal, say, rooting around in their trash for old desktop calendars. They also don't appreciate how fast you can crack short passwords.

    3. Digital Signatures. If only more people knew how to use these! E-mail spoofing and privacy concerns go poof!

    4. Bitorrent and filesharing, because you've got to give people what they want.

    5. Explain what all of the major HTTP error codes mean and how they get around them. This kills the old "Son, I got a timeout error. Is the computer broke? No mom, just wait a little while and try again. The Web site is busy, or having routing problems."

    6. Backups, backups, backups.

    7. Explain the USB 2.0 Fullspeed vs. Highspeed crapulance.

    8. VoIP HOWTO? Its day may have come...

    9. The difference between POP3 and IMAP. Having that as common knowledge would have saved me some time over the years...

    10. Explain that deleted != destroyed. Data recovery tools can get stuff back. You should cover this from both side 1) this is good because sometimes you can recover data 2) this is bad because you teenage son's porn stash never really died.

    11. Rudamentary HTML and CSS

    That should be enough for now.

    --


    ...En að Besta Sem Guð Hefur Skapað Er Nýr Dagur
  98. application context switching by frostycellnex · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This might be a Mac-only issue, since both Windows and most windowing toolkits in Linux have more obvious visual indicator of what application is currently active, but I'll push forward.

    My parents (more often my father) use both Macs and Windows PCs. I'm forever trying (and failing) to explain how Mac OS indicates application context switching. A major problem is that my father doesn't understand that closing a window in Windows kills the application, whereas closing a window in MacOS only closes the window--the application remains running in memory. I see evidence of this same cognitive dissonance with my mother, when a dozen applications are running on her iMac, but only three windows from any of those applications are actually on the desktop or minimized. Naturally performance suffers in this situation. This is especially pertinant on my dad's office computer, because he's running Virtual PC and needs to switch between a PC world and a Mac world. He doesn't really understand that he's changing operating systems, and therefore changing user interface philosophies.

    Maybe this concept is a bit too advanced when the average user only has to get used to one environment. It's something I deal with whenever I'm on a service call with my parents though.

    frostycellnex

    1. Re:application context switching by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "Naturally performance suffers in this situation"

      Really? Seems to me like running a pile o' apps is pretty transparent. Overhead seems minimal on my PowerBook.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  99. Screw the Book; Produce a DVD Video by ewhac · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The audience you're trying to reach couldn't be bothered to RTFM that came free with their machine; what makes you think they're going to buy another book? There have been no shortage of books on the subject, and people are still underinformed.

    So I say forget doing a book at all (at least initially), and instead consider screenwriting a DVD video. People will be far more willing to give it a quick spin than check out a book. Also, it's much cheaper to duplicate, and you can distribute it over the Internet. (Technically, the same is also true of "books" in PDF format, but books are traditionally not thought of in that manner.)

    If the DVD is a success, than you can go into more depth in a follow-on book (or just leave a PDF file on the DVD).

    Schwab

    1. Re:Screw the Book; Produce a DVD Video by cashman73 · · Score: 1
      Back in the 'old' days, before G4 trashed TechTV, you could point some of the newer users to watch Call for Help, which usually had some pretty good, basic information about how to use computers better, and they would explain some of the major PC/internet applications in an easy-to-swallow format. More advanced people could get a bit more bang for the buck by watching The Screen Savers.

      Unfortunately, this strategy was shot to pieces when G4 bought TechTV, created G4TechTV, fired everybody, then went back to G4 and torched TechTV entirely. Now, you really can't get anything from that network except for some stupid gaming ads and watered down tech news! And now, I just noticed that they apparently bought a couple of old reruns of The Man Show?!?! WTF?!?! I mean, I like the girls jumping on trampolines and all, but I'd hardly call this, "tech."

    2. Re:Screw the Book; Produce a DVD Video by duinsel · · Score: 1

      Maybe people would bother to RTFM if new computers actually contained booklets with useful information. I usually see a packet of FCC declarations, some lawyer talk on warrantees and a flimsy green Win XP booklet that does not provide great insights either.

    3. Re:Screw the Book; Produce a DVD Video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, man, I've seen people at the book store buying books about how to use their iPod or how to use Internet Explorer. Sure, the average joe user may need some information on how to use these things, but a $20, 300 page book? If you write it, they will buy it...

    4. Re:Screw the Book; Produce a DVD Video by jimicus · · Score: 2


      The audience you're trying to reach couldn't be bothered to RTFM that came free with their machine;


      I haven't seen a manual shipped with a PC in a long time. Even "Getting Started with Windows" (complete with license certificate glued on the front) has gone, in favour of a license sticker on the machine itself.


      what makes you think they're going to buy another book? There have been no shortage of books on the subject, and people are still underinformed.


      Why do they want to be informed? Few people are aware of exactly how ignorant they are on any particular aspect of their PC. Frankly, someone who can get their own computer up and running, install a word processor and set up a home network with router/firewall/wireless on their own is probably in the top 15-20% of the population.

      There's a reason there are so many PC's inundated with spyware - the computer doesn't always let you know when you've done something badly. So many people have simply no idea when they're doing something wrong, there's no negative feedback, they don't see a problem.

      Example: Mr. J. Average has got his shiny new PC and broadband connection, rather proud to have set it up himself, thinking "This isn't so hard - that kid down the road who would have wanted money is taking the mick..."

      He's installed the firewall because the computer said this was "recommended", and anti-virus software which came free. There was something on there about "pay for monthly updates" but J. Average isn't stupid - you don't have to update your word processor monthly, so that sounds like a way of conning money out of people. Don't buy the updates, save a bit of money. Clever, eh?

      He's heard vaguely of spyware but reckons he's got the firewall turned on (and it says here that makes the Internet safer...) and anti-virus software, so he should be OK.

      Two months later and the Antivirus software is hideously out of date. And our friend J. A. receives an email from his friend, which apparently contains a "funny picture". He tries opening the picture and it won't open. Ah well, such is life. He deletes the email and thinks no more of it.

      From this day on, things start going downhill, computer-wise. It just seems to be getting slower, and it's only a few months old. J. A. saw some software advertised on one of the seedier websites he sometimes visits which said "Your Computer May Be Running Slowly! Optimize? Yes/No" so he bought that, but it didn't seem to do much. If anything, the problem's worse.

      In desparation, J. A. calls the tech support line.

      A pot plant in Baghdad answers the phone.

      J. A. can't really understand the begonia, but he said something about "spyware... don't support software faults... nothing the matter with the PC". Well, clearly something is the matter. It takes 15 minutes to start up, doesn't shut down properly, his homepage keeps on changing. And he can't let the kids use it for their homework any more (which was the original idea) because more often than not the homepage has changed to hardcore pornography.

      Stuff it, says JA. Calls the kid down the road.

      Now the kid down the road sees this all the time. Frankly, he's got better things to do than stick spybot S&D on there, wait for it to spend hours going through a painfully slow scan (which wouldn't be so slow were the PC not completely bogged down), then give a lecture on safe internet use which he knows will be forgotten as soon as he walks out the door. So he charges for the work and doesn't bother with the lecture. Instead, he sets up Spybot to "immunise" against everything.

      Now Spybot's immunisation essentially means setting a bunch of registry keys read-only. Kid goes home, J. A. finds that a bunch of his legitimate software no longer works properly (because it wants read/write access to bits of the registry which were set readonly) and he can't install software any more (well, he can, but the installer always complains that it "can't set a registry key", whatever that means).

      J. A. soldiers on. Makes a mental note not to speak to the kid down the road again. At least the porn's gone and his children can use the computer again.

    5. Re:Screw the Book; Produce a DVD Video by kestrelokes · · Score: 1

      Though the intended audience might not RTFM on their own, they might accept and read a short, clear, non-condescending instructional book if its given to them by someone whose experience they trust (local computer guru/techno-literate son/daughter/neighbor's son/daugther). The book could be a nice cap to any repair job, as in when you're done fixing someone's computer for the nth time, hand them this book and say "You seem to be having a lot of trouble with xyz. I've found this book to be really helpful to me. Why don't you try reading through it?"

      I rarely read a manual unless I have to, but if someone who's familiar with my current task and whose opinion I trust suggests that I read something before diving into a new task, I'll probably follow the suggestion.

    6. Re:Screw the Book; Produce a DVD Video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, some funny bald guy already sells those DVDs on late night television.

  100. There is no such thing as User Education by jitterysquid · · Score: 1

    Wasn't there a whitepaper that listed "user education" as one of the top myths of IT?

    Even if you write the perfect book the target audience won't bother to read it. They don't really want to be educated even when they say they do. The phrase "Why doesn't this work properly?" is almost never a request for an explanation, only a complaint phrased as a question. I don't really mind at this point, I've just learned to deal with it.

    This pessimistic view is only what I've managed to glean from supporting people at work and at home for years. Maybe the OP has a more motivated user base that truly wants to be taught and keep up with changes in technology.

  101. Ok, a lot of people are still going too technical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many people are replying asking that a section be included to tell the user what the difference between RAM and Hard Drive are.

    A generic user won't care in the least. All they'll both need and want to know is that "it stores your stuff". If you MUST include something, just say "RAM makes it go faster, Hard drive is how much room you have"

    And don't bother defining any acronyms. No random person in a conversation will say "random access memory". They'll say "RAM", and that's it.

    Coming from many years of tech support, I'll give some of the most common mistakes.

    There were several good ideas of describing what they see directly in front of them (keyboard, mouse, etc) and what they do. Tell people the difference between the monitor and the case. That pushing the power button on the monitor does nothing but turn off a TV. The signal is still being sent to your TV, but it's just not showing it on the screen.

    The disk drives. SHINY SIDE DOWN! That's about all they need to know about a CD-Rom. That, and the little disks hold your files. And tell people the difference between a CD and a DVD, like that a CD-rom can't read dvd, but a dvd can read cd.

    Someone also mentioned a good one. If you don't know what something is, DON'T CLICK ON IT! Unless you don't know what an item in a menu does, ask someone who does. Odds are, you don't need it.

    Inside My Computer... do not delete anything other than something you created and named yourself (ie: word file, etc). All of those little pictures with words under them are files that the computer needs to stay happy.

    As well, if you want to clean it, tell people how to clean the screen and keyboard, and who to check for and clean dust from the various openings in the computer.

    And finally... if you need to call help, saying you got "a good brand name" doesn't do anything. Some other statements to avoid:
    "But I got a DELL!" - if it's broken, it's broken. All computers can break.
    "Why did this happen" - That's like asking "why did that bulb burn out." It just did. That's all.
    "Will this happen again" - I don't know. Will the next bulb you put in burn out? Will you get in a car accident tomorrow? I can't see the future.

  102. And what the heck's a bra net? by TCQuad · · Score: 1

    So in layman's term, computer is an electronic appliance, you plug in the power, turn it on and use it.

    Even if I accept your framing of this debate, there are a few issues. First, you don't just "use" a washing machine. There are settings, types of detergent, general rules about mixing colors, etc. There are even some out there (as I found out when I returned home for the holidays) that don't automatically set the time when you put in quarters, or, even more shockingly, need quarters!

    That's the level of complexity that this book should be targetted to. Not teaching how to run a webserver or how to "fix" the hardware (in your analogy, performing maintence or upgrades on the washer), but what a "browser" is and how it talks to other computers, what the "Internet" is and how it is (or was) different from the WWW, how viruses do what they do and why, the difference between RAM and your hard drive. Basically, everything your parents have or have wanted to ask you about computers.

  103. History NOT by hisstory+student · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Folks looking to get a rudimentary understanding of their computer really don't want to read history. That's just a turn off and a waste of their time. If you insist on including historical information, put it in an appendix. What you need to do is determine what it is these folks minimally need to know and put that right up front in the clearest non-geek language possible. If you do that, your book will gain success by way of word-of-mouth and won't wind up on the store shelves among the hundreds of other failures.

    --
    Heard any good sigs lately?
  104. I wish by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    people understood that MS Windows is just an operating system, not part of the computer itself, and that there are better alternatives such as Linux.

  105. Simple... by nycdewd · · Score: 1

    If more people just knew the difference between memory (RAM) and storage (Hard Drive), I'd be happier.

    Sheesh!

  106. It's been written... Different Problem. by Pii · · Score: 2, Informative
    The book you'd like to write has already been written. It's called How Computers Work, and it's in it's 8th Edition. (There's also a companion book called "How the Internet Works (6th Edition)".)

    The real problem isn't that the information you'd like to convey to these laypeople has never been put into an easily readable, accessible format. The problem is that most people really don't give a damn about how things work.

    Remember that most people never bother to even learn the full capabilities of the devices they come into every day contact with, like cell phones. Do you think that people who can't program their VCRs are really interested in the science involved in storing and retrieving data from a magnetic tape?

    I'm not trying to harsh your mellow, but you need to face the facts. Most people are content to believe that the underlying technologies that make their lives so easy are simply "magical," and leave it at that.

    --
    For those that would die defending it, Freedom
    has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
  107. Applications by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1

    To include in your book, one bold line that reads:

    A COMPUTER IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT APPLICATIONS TO PERFORM SPECIFIC TASKS.

    I allways hear "I just got a new Digital Camcorder and I want to make home movies with it. Could you quickly tell me how I do that?"

    or

    Comp Ignorant: "My sister can do (long explanation shortend to..)video chat, I want to do that with my computer."

    Me: "Oh cool, what kind of computer do you have & how fast is it?"

    Comp Ignorant: "A Dell"

    Me: (realizing they don't know their specs) "How Old is it?"

    Comp Ignorant: "It's not that old.."

    Me: (realizing they are not aware computer hardware "AGES" fast in relevance to application performance... )"When did you buy it?"

    Comp Ignorant: "2000"

    Me: (to save time and energy as I allready wasted 10 minutes trying to get them to tell me anything useful) "Buy a cheap new computer, get broadband, and call me when your ready..."

    --
    How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
  108. Cars and Computers by vettemph · · Score: 5, Funny

    >>>shudder at the possibility of the history of computers being taught to my parents.

    I agree.
    The book should take on the angle of driving a car.
        ANALOGIES
    Controls: keyboard and mouse
    Engine: OS
    Bumpers: AV software
    Crooked mechanic: Windows update
    Lemons: Windows (please pass a lemon law for this crap OS)
    Mclaren F1: GNU/Linux (or is linux an original VW which became a porsche?)
    Car Jackers: script kiddies/spyware/adware

      Of course You need road signs, maps, short cuts, scenic routes and many other things. "Drivers training" should be a requirement.

    (copywrite Ken Wood 2006) :)

    --
    The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    1. Re:Cars and Computers by dotgain · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Bullshit. Analogies with cars will always fall down. And anyway, people don't understand cars any better.

    2. Re:Cars and Computers by StalinsNotDead · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're absolutely correct. Analogies using cars work about as well as your average Pontiac Fierro.

      --
      Thanks to the internet, we can now all die alone together! -SomeWoman
    3. Re:Cars and Computers by computechnica · · Score: 1

      I drove my 88 Fiero GT to work today, had no problems taking curves at speeds no other American car can match 8^)

    4. Re:Cars and Computers by jackjumper · · Score: 1

      Except for the fastest car of all: the 'rental' car...

    5. Re:Cars and Computers by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Analogies in general work well.

      True story: I was in a major computer store when a perplexed looking man, probably about 60, asked me if I knew anything about the USB keys they had. He wanted to store some letters on it (probably saved from Word.. didn't ask), and his outlook contacts list.

      I started with 'well a 16mb is cheap and will do what you need I think' but he looked perplexed.. time for an analogy. '1 megabyte is about 1 floppy, so 16 megabytes is 16 floppies'. It was like watching a light switch on - the analogy had allowed him to make the connection between something he knew (floppy disks) to something he didn't know (what a megabyte was). His next question was, 'ah, so that one is the size of 256 floppies'.. and he was well on his way to making an intelligent buying choice.

    6. Re:Cars and Computers by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      White vans are faster.

      Or maybe taxis, since they don't have obey any of the rules of the road.

    7. Re:Cars and Computers by dotgain · · Score: 1
      Don't you think that's more of a comparison than an analogy, though. I mean, it's obvious to us that 16MB flash card approximates 16 floppy disks. But they're effectively the same thing! It's not an analogy at all!

    8. Re:Cars and Computers by default+luser · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right, analogies are key. I also have had great success with encouraging people like my mother to be more outgoing when it comes to GUIs.

      Like most people who just "get by" using computers, she is terrified of messing with options, and jumping through menus.

      Whenener she has a problem with a piece of software I've never touched (yet I'm expected to "fix"), I make it clear to her that I have no clue exactly how to fix it, but I tell her what kind of thing I'm looking for...a settings window, a configuration wizard, etc. And I explain to her quite clearly that she can't break anything by messing with these options...she can always undo something.

      Now that she realizes that many programs offer similar basic features, but just present them in their own way, she is more confident with finding the solution to common problems she encounters (and calls me very rarely about problems).

      It is all about the approach. I used to have to install GAMES for this woman.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

    9. Re:Cars and Computers by Isaac-1 · · Score: 1

      Cars are a great analogy, people don't care how they work either, and most people prefer to pay others to work on them or add features (stereos, bug screens, turbochargers, wheels, etc). All they care about is driving them and complaining when they break down on the side of the road after 120,000 miles with no oil change (not running windows update).

      Ike

    10. Re:Cars and Computers by ampathee · · Score: 1

      Right, but that wasn't really an analogy.
      It was just putting the information in a context with which this guy was familiar.
      A 16MB usb key is not *analogous* to 16 floppies, it is (relatively) equivalent (in size).

      PS. Car analogies suck!

    11. Re:Cars and Computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (or is linux an original VW which became a porsche?)

      original VW was made by nazis.. i thought GPL was all commie.. now I'm all confused.

    12. Re:Cars and Computers by srite · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of the picture on one of of the Andrew S. Tanenbaum's OS books. It is about some scene in reality with a relationship to OS....

    13. Re:Cars and Computers by Arcys · · Score: 1

      One more analogy.

      The hardware is the stuff you can touch
      The OS works the hardware
      The app tells the OS what it needs
      The user tells the App what it wants

      So..
      The stove is the stuff you can touch
      The cook works the stove
      The waiter tells the cook what it needs
      and the customer tells the waiter what it wants

      and Windows drops cigarette butts in the fries

    14. Re:Cars and Computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *points and screams hysterically and in disgust* HE SAID 'COPYRIGHT'!!


      Actually he said copyWRITE but still.....

    15. Re:Cars and Computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fierro? Is the stereo a Magnetbox or a Sorny?

    16. Re:Cars and Computers by airos4 · · Score: 1

      And yet it is an analogy, because while we all know and understand how much a floppy will hold in sheer terms of physical memory size, your average user knows how much a floppy will hold in terms of "about this many files". For instance, my mom - who is a fledgling user - knows that her collection of "papers" from a month at work generally fits onto three floppies. She doesn't recognize that there's 20k left on each disk - she just drags and drops until "the thing says" that the disk is full. Same concept - if she knew that each USB key was about 16 floppies, she could deduce that she would be able to pull around 5 months of work using the simple equation:

      1 month = 3 floppies
      1 USB = 16 floppies.
      16 / 3 = 5 months.

      No silly k or Mb needed.

      --
      I wish there was a choice that said "Factually Wrong -1" when I mod.
    17. Re:Cars and Computers by Hosiah · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You know, if I had one wish for computer literacy, it would be to have the entire population each get a 2/386 out of the recycle bin, and thrash the hell out of it. Since it's a garbage computer with no data of theirs on it, they have complete freedom to open every folder, click every option, move files at random, and even tear open the case and rip out the chips and shiff them and feel them. They can at last *explore*, because they have a sandbox!

      I mean, would you have ever have learned to drive if your only chance was a shiny new expensive car, and what's more you were convinced that if you so much as changed the radio volume, the entire car would die instantly and have to be replaced? Fear is all there is between the dumbest newb and the saltiest geek.

      Hey, I have an idea! Set up some computers as a business, and actually *invite* the public to trash them (The only rule is, no hardware damage.). Sort of like an arcade. Sell cappuccino on the side. Every night at closing, you zero out the drives and put Knoppix back on them...

    18. Re:Cars and Computers by dotgain · · Score: 1

      Well, OK then. I'll stop being pedentic for long enough to see your point.

    19. Re:Cars and Computers by Marlow+the+Irelander · · Score: 1

      Ironically, the word is 'pedantic'.

    20. Re:Cars and Computers by dotgain · · Score: 1

      Thanks mate :-) I actually enjoyed a laugh at my own expense.

    21. Re:Cars and Computers by vettemph · · Score: 1

      It's easy to put down someone elses idea. Until you can come up with better ideas on Your own, You and Your comments are useless.

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    22. Re:Cars and Computers by dotgain · · Score: 1
      It's easy to put down someone elses idea. Until you can come up with better ideas on Your own, You and Your comments are useless.

      It's easy to put down someone elses idea. Until you can come up with better ideas on Your own, You and Your comments are useless.

    23. Re:Cars and Computers by vettemph · · Score: 1

      You obviously did not read back far enough to see who did and didn't have an idea.
      I have another idea too. Go back ad do your homework.

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
    24. Re:Cars and Computers by dotgain · · Score: 1
      I'm not denying you came up with the idea in the first place, that's why it's *you* that I'm replying to. You listed a bunch of quite pathetic and simply wrong "analogies".

      Comparing bumpers to AV software? Come on, that analogy falls short along every step of the way. The bumpers on my car (see my homepage) are purely cosmetic. Presence or absence of them make no difference to the operation of the car, nor its safety in the event of a crash.

      Engine ~= OS?? More like CPU, if anything, but as I've already said, drawing analogies between computers and cars is an outright stupid idea, and I'm surprised you haven't found how much more it's confused the issue for those users you teach them to.

      You *think* you're adding to the discussion, but you're not - your ideas are simply stupid. If you must insist that I come up with alternative ideas to qualify me to rubbish yours, then here goes:

      Rather than just grab the closest (or in your case, not even vaguely similar or related) looking car part, break it down into simple parts that the need to know, and leave out the confusing side-issues, which they can learn later when they have a basic grasp of the concepts.

      Do you think they teach medicine using car analogies? Why not? Because it's a fucking stupid idea, that's why.

      Your "homework" quip serves only to show that you can be just as guilty of criticism that isn't constructive. You claim it as another of your "ideas", and it really is on parralel to your first one. Fucking stupid.

    25. Re:Cars and Computers by vettemph · · Score: 1

      >>> You *think* you're adding to the discussion, but you're not - your ideas are simply stupid.

      >>> Your ideas are simply stupid.Do you think they teach medicine using car analogies? Why not? Because it's a fucking stupid idea, that's why.

        Dear Fucking stupid,
        A) You lack people skills. You're a pathic little person who has only slashdot as an outlet to your frustrations. Leave your mothers basement and go stare at the sun for a while.

        B) You overlooked the Funny, +5 modifier. This is fun but you are getting all 'bitchy' about it. Go wield your awesome power elsewhere.

      cheers

      --
      The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
  109. Keep it simple by clawoo · · Score: 1

    Explain everything in simple concepts, ditch unnecessary ones. For example I found out that people tend to always confuse hard drive space with memory, so I chose to simplify things a bit, dividing everything in two main categories: 1. Components which cost you a lot of money and you get in touch with them rarely CPU, RAM, mainboard, etc 2. Components which can be easily upgrade-able and you bump into them most of the time HDD, optical unit, video card, etc I used this approach when I explained how a computer works to my uncle and he has never asked me anything computer related since. It must be working...

    --
    This is not your signature.
  110. The Internet by thorndove_1 · · Score: 1

    Please explain that AOL's internet is the same as IE's internet.

  111. Annoyances. by ErMaC · · Score: 1

    The actual computer is not a "hard drive". The thing that the monitor sits on top of is the computer.

    A Mac is a PC (is a Mac)

    A floppy/diskette drive and a zip drive are not the same.

    The CD-ROM is not a cupholder.

    No matter what the web page says, you did not win anything. You never win anything online.

    Someone does not have "The Internet", just like someone does not have "The Highway."

    The monitor is not a "TV Screen."

    Unless you continually try to win things online by clicking on the web page (in blatant violation of the aforementioned rule), if there's some folder and you don't know what it does, chances are it's important.

    Confirmation dialog boxes are there for a reason.

    Feel free to add more.

    --
    "I want to get more into theory, because everything works in theory." -John Cash
    1. Re:Annoyances. by pclminion · · Score: 1
      A Mac is a PC (is a Mac)

      No... A Mac is a "personal computer." The fact that PC stands for the same words does not make the two terms equivalent.

      My wife owns an iPod. It has processor, a memory, and methods for input and output. It is therefore a computer, and it's obviously "personal." So, it's a "personal computer." Does that make it a PC?

      PC refers, specifically, to the lineage of systems descended from the IBM desktop systems of the 1980's and their clones.

    2. Re:Annoyances. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > PC refers, specifically, to the lineage of systems descended from the IBM desktop systems of the 1980's and their clones.

      Once upon a time, it didn't. You used to have to say "IBM-compatible PC" to mean what you are referring to before about 1985.

  112. No good books? by AviLazar · · Score: 1

    Come on...there are thousands upon thousands of books, and there are many books for dummies (not to be confused with the "for dummies" books). What you really meant to say is that people can't be bothered to read a paragraph let alone a book (even a slim one).

    There are way too many topics to cover in a post, but some

    Computer Etiquette
    Computer Security
    When in doubt --- DON'T DO IT!
    Check your plugs to make sure they are attached properly
    E-mail tips
    Web surfing tips
    A cousin/nephew/grand child who is a computer geek.

    --

    I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
  113. Reboot by VanHalensing · · Score: 1

    People need to understand why a simple reboot fixes half of their problems.

  114. "How Computers Work" by __aadxzo5882 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Might wanna check out How Computers Work before getting too far into writing the new book. I've used it several times to explain concepts to new computer users.

    1. Re:"How Computers Work" by qmVSE*w!7e,QF(, · · Score: 1

      I've got one of the older issues of this book, and it is an excellent treatment of the topic. It's written to be accessible to just about anyone who can read.

  115. Are computers a disruptive technology? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when is enough enough? Can we expect people to get a freakin' clue about computers? Why must those people who are good at understanding what makes a computer tick have to put up with the psychological abuse from complete technological idiots? And look at all the time wasted.. at this rate a third world banana republic will have caught up to the first world.. without computers.

  116. Wow by RobinH · · Score: 1

    Wow. Just Wow. That's a huge task.

    Consider how much you know about computers, and how long it has taken you to accumulate that knowledge, some of which you just understood the first time you saw it, because you're probably interested in the subject and bright enough to pick it up. The lay-person is neither of those things (well, perhaps they're somewhat interested if they actually purchase your book).

    I guess you could try looking at it from their point of view. Computers are magical to the lay-person because they have no clue how a computer "knows things". They don't understand where the letter they wrote is saved, and how it comes back up on the screen, how things are undeleted, or even how it can add 2 numbers with electricity.

    I would do something like this...

    1) a bit (logical and electrical representation)
    2) binary number systems, how to add/subtract/multiply/divide in binary
    3) boolean operators (AND, OR, NOT, XOR)
    4) describe how add/subtract/multiply/divide can be done with boolean operators
    5) a transistor - MOSFET is a good start, simpler than BJT if you simplify it (boy, this is getting deep)
    6) now show how all the boolean gates can be created with MOSFETs
    7) memory - a flip/flop is good enough, don't worry about DRAM
    8) opcodes - how to store add/subtract/multiply/divide as numbers in binary, give an example from a RISC processor, like a PPC
    9) ALU - algorithmic logic unit, uses opcodes to tell it what ops to perform
    10) program - just a list of opcodes and data
    11) memory structures - just do Array based stuff, to keep it simple, describe a random access file structure, fixed field lengths, like a bank statement or something
    12) A simple program to total the debits and credits in that file structure, using the opcodes from #8 above

    After a while you're going to get to the point where you're writing an introductory text book, so stop. If you want, take a look at Neal Stephenson's book, Cryptonomicon - he actually has mathematical stuff in that novel and it's written so people can get it. See what he did and build off that.

    Remember, people really don't know how you can even do math in a CPU. Some programmers don't even know. But that's what the lay person is saying when they say they don't get it.

    And don't expect that you can write a book that anyone can understand. I've run across people who did not understand how to use a handheld barcode scanner, and that's something so darned obvious that I never thought about how to teach someone what to do, other than point and shoot.

    Good luck!

    --
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    1. Re:Wow by jonfelder · · Score: 1

      You are crazy if you think the lay person needs to know that stuff. Most people don't care if they can do math on a CPU. They want to find a file after they saved it in Word, keep from getting a virus, buy crap on the Internet, write data to cd, etc...

      Some may want to know how a computer works on the highest of levels, that is to know what the various parts (RAM, CPU, Motherboard, etc) are and maybe how to put one together or at least add a component.

      Believe it or not the majority of people have a very hard time doing the above. They all just "get by". When they perform operations on the machine, they have no idea what the outcome will be. These people will hit print over and over and over and over when nothing comes out of the printer like it's a lottery.

      You want to explain transistors and XOR to people who think 3.5" disks are hard disks, that hard disks are memory, and think that the right mouse button is their backup? Cripes...by the time you get to that level, they'll be bored or dead and your book will be too heavy for them to take out of the store.

      Your approach is more like an introductory course in computer science and implies people understand the above and want to know even more. That is not the target audience described in the original question.

    2. Re:Wow by RobinH · · Score: 1

      As another poster has said, there are 2 types of books the OP could be talking about:

      1) A book about how to USE a computer.
      2) A book about how a computer works.

      You interpreted him as meaning #1, and I interpreted him as meaning #2. I do not think that makes me "crazy".

      --
      "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    3. Re:Wow by nicholas645 · · Score: 1

      People truly don't want to know much.

      I teach basic computer skills at a community college in NYC.

      I have a challenging time teaching just these basics:

      1.Selecting items
      2.Highlighting
      3.File system and what it's good for (Good luck on that one)
      4.Downloads and where they go
      5.Saving and why we should save
      6.Where to save
      7.What name to give the item you're saving
      8.Google's search bar *Is Not* where you type in a web address
      9.If it ends in .com, .edu, .org etc. it's a web address.
      10.If you're looking for yahoo.com type it up at the top in the ADDRESS BAR not in Google's search bar
      11.If you're looking for yahoo and don't know the address THEN type it into the search bar.
      12.How to choose one of the results at the top - which one?

  117. it's not that complicated! by the0ther · · Score: 1

    These would be a good start: 1) C:\ is a location on a filesystem/disk 2) What a URL is 3) What an email address looks like And then the next thing to learn would be to tell the difference between a website that'll give you a virus and one that will not.

  118. Actual System vs. Systems requirements by Bardwick · · Score: 1

    I constantly get calls, "I can't play this game/load this software." Tell people how to check thier proc. speed (also helps ebay fraud). Tell people hot to check thier memory (vs. hard drive, see above posts). How to read the bottom of the box thier software came with BEFORE they purchase. Real world example: Microsofts latest flight simulater will not work on an 800 Mhz machine even after buying that Radeon 9600, removing 2000 for windows XP and upgrading to 512 ram. Expensive lesson. $5-$600 bucks later, you realize you could have overnighted a brand new Dell to fix your problem for $350.

  119. Understanding is over-rated by l33t-gu3lph1t3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't understand how exactly a car works. I have a vague idea that combustion of gasoline creates pressure which is channeled into turning wheels, but that's about it. I don't have the foggiest clue how laundry soap works, or dry-cleaning for that matter. In the same token, I haven't the foggiest clue how to understand women.

    There are levels of underestanding required for the use of anything. If you break it down, malicious software exists because some jerks out there are exploiting the fact that they understanding software deficiencies better than Microsoft or you. People don't *need* to understand 100% how things work. They could, but they don't care to. Over time as people age, they accumulate a list of things they "know" and their curiosity and desire to learn decreases (the more you know, the less you care to learn).

    People care more about increasing the comfort level in their lives than in increasing the understanding of the world. Ignorance is bliss, and the more you learn, the more aware you become of your ignorance (ie, you are really learning just how much you don't understand).

    Most people see computers as a tool, albeit an annoying, complicated, troublesome one. In fact, from the people I have talked to, if they could get away with NOT using computers in their daily lives, they would. They'd rather spend their time with family, or recreationally, etc. As a tool, computers are rather flawed - the mere fact that they break down so easily is proof of that. Instead of thinking of ways to make it easier to learn the tool, why don't we just fix the tool itself? Make it simpler, easier to use, more reliable. What you sacrifice in perfect flexibility, you gain in adoption. The best consumer technology is transparent technology.

    --
    ------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
    1. Re:Understanding is over-rated by borkus · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, the idea of computer education being like driver education actually sounds good to me. Focus on what it takes to operate it safely (basic security), the rules of the road (online etiquette) and some basic maintenance (backing up data, file management, etc).

      On the other hand, I think about the Herculean levels of serenity that it must take to be a drivers' ed instruction and just shudder.

    2. Re:Understanding is over-rated by finkployd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Over time as people age, they accumulate a list of things they "know" and their curiosity and desire to learn decreases (the more you know, the less you care to learn).

      These people are a cancer on human civilization. That sounds harsh, but seriously.

      We have been given (by natural selection, an intelligent designer, a flying spaghetti monster, etc) the ability to learn and the desire to learn everything we can in our lives. Those who grab a diploma from highschool or college and go "well, I'm all done learnin' time to watch some pro wrestling, nascar, and reality tv" end up not only refusing to help push civilization further, they end up being a hindrance. I'm not talking about people with actual learning disabilities, just those who think it is too hard, or that that have learned everything they need and just coast from there.

      You know the type, the people who seem positively proud to be befuddled by technology, science, politics, basically the world around them. And when they are not proud of the ignorance, they are angry or indignant that they should be troubled to have to learn anything new.

      Now I'm in no way attacking the average person for not understanding the machine code that directs their CPU, but honestly people, take an afternoon and learn a LITTLE bit about how your computer works, especially if you intend to be using it for hours every day. And for that matter, learn how your car works, You don't have to be able to build a fuel injected engine from scratch, but the concepts are quite simple and worth knowing. It seems weird that our society is begining to take pride in what we DON'T know versus what we do. Yes, you can go through life completely ignorant of how the world around you works, but why would you want to?

      Finkployd

    3. Re:Understanding is over-rated by raoul666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't understand how exactly a car works. I have a vague idea that combustion of gasoline creates pressure which is channeled into turning wheels, but that's about it. I don't have the foggiest clue how laundry soap works, or dry-cleaning for that matter. In the same token, I haven't the foggiest clue how to understand women.

      I don't think you need to understand those things, really. As long as you know you can't drive your car off a cliff, or go to the store without taking off your e-brake, or not to drive with your eyes closed, etc., you'll probably do fine. For laundry soap, as long as you know how much to put in, you're ok. If you can read the labels for dry cleaning, it'll work out. Women...well, try and find one that makes sense to you.

      My point is, maybe the average person doesn't need to understand exactly how a computer works. The whole transistors - logic gates - boolean logic type stuff isn't really necessary. However, there's a lot of users who don't know you shouldn't connect to the internet without a firewall. Or you shouldn't pull the cord while it'd defragging the harddrive. Or that IE is not the internet. Or why your computer slows down when you open every program you've got. Or why the sony rootkit thing is a big deal. Or why you shouldn't trust anyone on the internet (you know what I mean). All those kind of things can be explained without going into the nitty-gritty detail.

      As a tool, computers are rather flawed - the mere fact that they break down so easily is proof of that.

      Take a car. Don't change the oil, don't rotate the tires, don't fill them regularly, don't fill the radiator, don't replace the brakepads, don't get a tune up, fill it with the lowest octane fuel you can find, drive recklessly, and you'll get a car that breaks down pretty easily. You take care of a computer, it'll last. You don't, it won't.

      --
      When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl
    4. Re:Understanding is over-rated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      In a nutshell, as I understand them:

      >> I don't understand how exactly a car works. I have a vague idea that combustion of gasoline creates pressure which is channeled into turning wheels, but that's about it.

      The controlled explosion of gas pushes pistons up and down. Hook a piston going up and down to a gear going round and round, and the piston can drive the gear. The bar has to be able to swing side-to-side a little bit. Think of pictures of old trains with the metal bars attached to the wheels.

      >> I don't have the foggiest clue how laundry soap works

      Things that dissolve in water do so because they have a "hook" on their molecules that let them grab onto water molecules and hold on.

      Things that dissolve in oils do so because they have a different "hook" on their molecules that let them grab onto oil molecules and hold on.

      Because oil and water have different "hooks", they don't mix well.

      However, there are substances where each molecule has two hooks - one for oil and one for water. These are called emulsifiers. Some are used in baking to hook oils and fats into water-based foods. For cleaning, these are called detergents. Basically, the detergent grabs onto the smelly oil molecules in your clothes with the oil hook. The other hook grabs onto some water in your laundry. When the water is spun out or drained away, the detergent is pulled along, pulling the smelly oil, leaving clean clothes.

      >> or dry-cleaning for that matter.

      Dry cleaning uses ions to pull away charged molecules stuck to the clothes. Things stick to each other because they form atomic bonds. When a stronger ion comes along, the stain stops sticking to the clothes and instead sticks to the ion. Then the ion is taken away via evaporation, leaving cleaner clothes.

      Some dry cleaners use chemical ions. Others use more "natural" ions like atomic oxygen.

    5. Re:Understanding is over-rated by SnuffySmith · · Score: 1
      Hear! Hear!

      Part of the problem is that the concepts used in computers are presented to users in a confusing fashion. Using the items that bear the concepts does little to teach users what they are. The set of concepts needed to drive a car -- steering wheel, brake, accelerator, road, and so forth -- don't need a lot of explanation. What they are and how to use them become immediately clear once you get behind the wheel and try to keep your car from running into crap.

      Windows is one of the worst offenders in this case. It gives users any number of possible behaviors and representations of objects that represent an underlying complexity that go far beyond what the majority of users need to do. The simplest task can be accomplished in any number of ways, and performing any one of those behaviors teaches a user virtually nothing about the system and how the pieces relate to one another.

      How do you copy a Word document from one place to another? Open Word, open the document, select Save as, and then save the file to the new location.

      A book about Windows concepts would, I think, walk users through common tasks in such a way that they had to learn core concepts -- no clever alternatives, no detailed explanations.

    6. Re:Understanding is over-rated by spitzak · · Score: 1

      I don't have the foggiest clue how laundry soap works

      Yes you do: you know that you have to put some into the washer or the clothes will not get clean. You know that you have to put a certain amount in, that if you put too little in it won't work, and putting more than a certain amount will not make the clothes cleaner. You know that after some number of times putting the soap in, the box will be empty, and the only way to put more soap in is to buy a new box.

      In fact you know a lot about laundry soap. The frustrating thing about teaching people about computers is that they don't know information as rudimentary as the above knowledge about soap.

    7. Re:Understanding is over-rated by saltydogdesign · · Score: 1

      But you know not to eat laundry soap, and you know not to grab women's naughty bits. This guy just wants to write a book about how not to eat the naughty bits of computers.

      --
      // This is not a sig.
    8. Re:Understanding is over-rated by simishag · · Score: 2, Insightful

      sheesh.. mod -1 arrogant. Really, how is this any different from saying "Well, I'm all done with school, time to go watch some ballet/go windsurfing/play chess?" Are those learning activities or mere entertainment? Insulting people for wanting to enjoy their downtime in their own way is the height of arrogance.

      Anyway, most people spend plenty of time "learning." They learn how to get a job, how to do the job once they get it, how to handle additional tasks at the job, etc. They learn how to enjoy their leisure time more, perhaps by practicing a sport. Maybe they just read or watch TV and learn about the world. Maybe, unlike you, they aren't INTERESTED in computers, or cars, or whatever. Maybe they view them as simple utilitarian tools, or maybe they have better things to do with their time. I know plenty about cars and engines, but I'd much rather pay the shop $15 to change the oil in my car than deal with it myself.

      The cancerous people you refer to might even be like me, and be sick and freaking tired of being forced to learn every stupid computer trick just to be able to surf the Internet safely, or to learn every fad computer language just to get a decent paying job. It has nothing to do with an unwillingness to learn and everything to do with gross inefficiency. At some point, one needs to stop learning and start doing in order to get anything done.

    9. Re:Understanding is over-rated by finkployd · · Score: 1

      You clearly did not read what I wrote.

      Insulting people for wanting to enjoy their downtime in their own way is the height of arrogance.

      Yes, it is, of course this bears no resemblance to what I wrote about.

      Maybe, unlike you, they aren't INTERESTED in computers, or cars, or whatever.

      While this /. story is about computers I was being more general. I referring to people who are primarily focused on entertainment, and passive entertainment at that. I'm talking about people living such an easy life that if the most minor modern convenience requires thought or learning, they are proud of their ignorance at best, usually they are just annoyed. I'm not talking about you who knows about engines but prefers to pay someone to change your oil, I'm talking about someone who does not bother to get their oil changed until something goes wrong because "why should they have to know about cars just to drive around". The same people who use computers as a tool every day but are ignorant of the most basic concepts behind it are usually the first to complain the loudest when they do something wrong that causes a problem.

      This is an attitude not limited to technology, but it certainly shows up a lot there.

      Look at nutrition and exercise in the US. You have a significant amount of grossly overweight people scarfing down anything that tastes good because they cannot be bothered to know the basics of nutrition that kept their ancestors alive before twinkies were invented. Due to their lack of interest in learning how to take care of their own bodies we see them dragging down the health care industry with all sorts of health complications from this.

      Look at politics, far from having active citizens who are interested in civic matters, we have sheep who pull a party lever for whichever party caters to their single issue or promises them the most pork from the treasury. The current state of politics (specifically in the US but certainly not limited to it) did not come about because greedy politicians stole the show, they were voted in by people who are now getting exactly what they deserve for their ignorance of politics.

      The cancerous people you refer to might even be like me, and be sick and freaking tired of being forced to learn every stupid computer trick just to be able to surf the Internet safely

      The lack of safety on the internet just mirrors the real world. You cannot just stroll anywhere you want in the middle of the night in a major city or give your money to anyone who promises to invest it wisely without learning a bunch of "stupid" things to keep you safe either. There are a bunch of people out there who will do anything to you for a buck (or just for the hell of it) and the internet is not exempt from this. You want total safety? it only comes with isolation.

      or to learn every fad computer language just to get a decent paying job.

      c has kept me employed quite well for many years. Does not stop me from learning and using other languages but then I enjoy that. If you do not enjoy learning new things at a rather quick pace you are certainly in the wrong industry.

      At some point, one needs to stop learning and start doing in order to get anything done.

      I have never found the two to be mutually exclusive, rather it is almost impossible to learn without doing (for me anyway).

      Finkployd

    10. Re:Understanding is over-rated by Karma+Farmer · · Score: 1

      You know the type, the people who seem positively proud to be befuddled by technology, science, politics, basically the world around them.

      I'm positively proud of the fact that I know I'm befuddled by technology, science, politics, and basically the world around me. It's dumb assholes like you who don't know, and fall for the pseudo-science bullshit and political lies and manipulations, because someone explains it to you using third grader words, and you nod your head and say "uh huh" because you want to pretend to yourself like you're not stupid.

      Well, here's a clue, dipshit -- you're stupid. All humans are damned monkies, barely brighter than an ape. No-one alive understands more than a tenth of the stuff that happens right in front his face, and doesn't have a chance in hell to understand the stuff he doesn't directly experience.

      The difference between a genius and a moron is that the genius knows he's barely more than a stupid ape, and will admit it. The moron has absolutely no idea.

    11. Re:Understanding is over-rated by finkployd · · Score: 1

      Wow, just wow.

      You really were able to figure out quite a bit about me from that post. Can you tell my future too? You know I'm in to the pseudo-science stuff....

      I have no misconceptions as to how much I know on any given topic, if anything the more I learn the more I realize I have to learn. My only point was that I have not totally given up and just decided to enjoy and actively pursue ignorance as though it were an enlightened state. It sounds as though you have totally given up on the concept of learning, and seem to hold quite a bit of resentment toward anyone who hasn't. That cannot be a fun way to go through life but to each his own.

      Finkployd

    12. Re:Understanding is over-rated by RuiFerreira · · Score: 1

      To understand how exactly a computer works it's not an easy deal. We have a global idea. That's enough. But we can allways get into more detail. Who knows exactly how CISC instructions are turn (on the fly) into RISC (micro, or what ever intel calls it) instructions and after how the pipeline works, how does it prevent hazards, predicts (or not) jumps, and so on.... We have to stop at some level and it's not easy to anyone to know how much you can, should or must know.

    13. Re:Understanding is over-rated by pjbgravely · · Score: 1

      I have found, that the reason most peaple cannot understand, is becouse they do not want to learn.
      Ask them and they will asnwer truthfully.
      I tell them when you stop learning you start dieing.

      --
      Star Trek, there maybe hope.
    14. Re:Understanding is over-rated by aeoo · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can go through life completely ignorant of how the world around you works, but why would you want to?

      That's actually a good question. I hope the answer is not obvious to you. Yes, why? Why would you want to know anything? Is there a purpose or benefit in knowing?

      From where I sit, knowing is just a cheap way to compensate lack of acceptance and fear. Well, since I am affraid of lightning and can't accept it, I will learn "how it works". Aha, now that I know how it works, I am no longer affraid of it. Sure...but the problem is, this type of comfort depends on constantly learning, but as you learn and learn the amount of unknowns just increases and increases. For every answer 10 questions arise. So where is the peace in this? Where is comfort?

      On the other hand, if the person can tolerate the psychological impact of the unknown, of the mystery, then there is no need to learn anything. It's like this -- if you can stand the heat, then you don't need to learn to get out. If you don't mind dying, then you don't need to seek to take an advantageous position in life in order to postpone death, or to make it more bearable.

      Sure, I understand what you're trying to say, but really, you should always look at things both ways, if you don't want to be narrow minded. If you don't want to be narrow minded, it's good to understand both wisdoms -- the wisdom of learning, and also the wisdom of not-learning. If you can only understand and sympathize with one but not the other, then it signals a narrow mind that hasn't deeply questioned things beyond accepted dogmas (and you know, geeks are quite dogmatic about certain things).

      It's ok to be a little dogmatic if you understand what your weakness is and to be mentally (internally) humble about it.

    15. Re:Understanding is over-rated by Karma+Farmer · · Score: 1

      Wow, just wow.

      You really were able to figure out quite a bit about me from that post. Can you tell my future too? You know I've totally given up on the concept of learning, and seem to hold quite a bit of resentment toward anyone who hasn't.

      I have no misconceptions as to how much I know on any given topic, if anything the more I know the more I realize I have to learn. My only point was that anyone who has not totally given up and just decided to enjoy and actively pursue ignorance realizes that they really are very, very, very stupid, and don't understand 99.9% of the world they live in.

    16. Re:Understanding is over-rated by igb · · Score: 1
      Take a car. Don't change the oil, don't rotate the tires, don't fill them regularly, don't fill the radiator, don't replace the brakepads, don't get a tune up, fill it with the lowest octane fuel you can find, drive recklessly, and you'll get a car that breaks down pretty easily. You take care of a computer, it'll last. You don't, it won't.
      As my father has asked on more than one occasion: I'm quite happy to pay to have my computer serviced, if only someone would do that for me.

      If I take a Saab to a Saab dealer, I have a reasonable assurance that they will perform a service as defined by the manufacturer. In turn, one of the tasks a car manufacturer will have done is designing a service schedule which should, all other things being equal, provide a reasonable service life. As I've taken one of my Saabs to 170K miles and I've run cars from several vendors to 120K miles I'm quite confident that given routine servicing, cars last for practical purposes indefinitely.

      Now, could you explain to me where (a) the service schedule for my computer is (b) where the dealers who will perform the maintenance are? I (in the sense of my signature on my company's paper) pay computer vendors about half a million pounds a year for `maintenance', but all that appears to be is break-fix service.

      ian

    17. Re:Understanding is over-rated by finkployd · · Score: 1

      You really were able to figure out quite a bit about me from that post. Can you tell my future too? You know I've totally given up on the concept of learning, and seem to hold quite a bit of resentment toward anyone who hasn't.

      Yeah, wherever did I come to that conclusion....

      "It's dumb assholes like you who don't know, and fall for the pseudo-science bullshit and political lies and manipulations, because someone explains it to you using third grader words, and you nod your head and say "uh huh" because you want to pretend to yourself like you're not stupid."

      "Well, here's a clue, dipshit -- you're stupid. All humans are damned monkies, barely brighter than an ape. No-one alive understands more than a tenth of the stuff that happens right in front his face, and doesn't have a chance in hell to understand the stuff he doesn't directly experience."

      "The difference between a genius and a moron is that the genius knows he's barely more than a stupid ape, and will admit it. The moron has absolutely no idea."

      Look you just want an argument, you misconstrued what I wrote to mean that anyone who enjoys life and doesn't spend 100% of their time learning is an idiot (nice hyperbole by the way, try going back and reading what I actually wrote). I'm sorry you are so angry, but damn man, I have never seen someone so violently defend ignorance. I'm not talking about everyone being a computer expert, or world cultures expert, or auto mechanic, just keeping someone the natural curiosity and interest in the world around us.

      Finkployd

  120. hmm ... a quick list by schmu_20mol · · Score: 1

    explain that:

    MS Word/PPT/etc is not a suitable format for emails
    not everyone has the UI layout in mind for some obscure program they might use (and are unable to do so)
    it doesn't make sense to call someone right after sending some email and asking if the received it

    ...mmhh... running out of quick ideas ...anyone care to expand?

    --
    "Nae Kin! Nae Quin! Nae laird! Nae master! We willna be fooled again!"
  121. Magic Smoke stays INSIDE by mekkab · · Score: 1

    Having a masters in computer science and having worked at a low "down to the metal (well, poly)" level with VLSI, I think I'm qualified to say that the first lesson every disciplined user needs to understand is that the magic smoke needs to stay on the inside. If it gets out, you need a new one. Feel free to try to collect up all that smoke in a jar and try to cram it back in later. It won't do you any good.

    Next week class, we will go over adjusting your computers Johnson Bar, and adequate Frambus parameters. And bring in $5 and I will oil your computers muffler bearings.

    --
    In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
    1. Re:Magic Smoke stays INSIDE by JWeinraub · · Score: 1

      this actually happened to me at work. I was setting up a new APC backups in our lab when the electrician put in a 220V drop on for the 110V unit. needless to say, it sparked, scared the shit out of, and my new nickname is sparky. when the technicians here tried to fix it, they asked what happened, i said it smoked.

      they said, oh magic smoke came out? ok throw the unit away. its hopeless now :-/

    2. Re:Magic Smoke stays INSIDE by jweller · · Score: 1

      We have an "Electron cloud award" at work. the current holder of the award is responsable for catching the next recipient.

  122. A few off the top of my head by etully · · Score: 2, Informative

    General Concepts:

    1. lots of knowledge can only come from experience and effort and can't be taught
    2. the field changes often so syntax changes often - general concepts move more slowly
    3. not every consultant understands everything - you have to ask around
    4. you learn by doing. doing comes from having work to do. find new tasks and try to do them.
    5. lots of answers are already on the Internet. Google is your friend. Learn to use it well.
    6. the people at slashdot and fark love to talk

    Philosophical Rules:

    1. If it can appear in a computer, it can be copied. There are no exceptions and never will be.
    2. If you help other people, they will help you. Open Source is about working together, not communism and not piracy.
    3. Learn why DRM is bad.
    4. Perfect anonymity is possible on the Internet so complete censorship is impossible and always will be.
    5. AOL is not the Internet and HTML screws up email

    Technical Rules:

    1. The Internet is slower than your computer.
    2. Networks overlap - it's meaningless to say, "There are slowdowns in New York today".
    3. understand bloat. Find out why the biggest isn't always the best.
    4. The Web is a subset of the Internet. The Internet can do more than the Web. Email is not part of the Web.
    5. Your connection to a remote site is made up of a series of connections and is as slow as the slowest link in the chain.
    6. Understand asynchronous routing if you are going to use traceroute. Traceroute can only give you part of the story.

  123. My plan was by sugarmotor · · Score: 1

    My plan was to describe what goes on from clicking on the location field, typing www.wikipedia.org, hitting return, to displaying the contents, step by step. Or for sending an email from a webmail account.
    That should be lots of stuff.

    I thought people might like that, and be able to relate to it since they are familiar with the results.

    You could put that in a separate chapter to offer a view not taken in the rest of your book.

    Stephan

    --
    http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
  124. I've been doing this a long time by Syberghost · · Score: 1

    If you could read a single book and get everything I've learned in nearly 30 years of computing, you could replace me with a very small shell script.

    If such a book existed, stories would be sitting on Slashdot for hours before the "FP" trolls, because we've all be scrambling to get jobs in our 2nd-best skillset.

  125. Disk space vs RAM by dudeX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One pet peeve of mine is that people call hard drive space "RAM". In your book you should thoroughly cover the difference between system memory and drive storage.

    1. Re:Disk space vs RAM by Feasoron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is def. a very important distinction. I've seen many people delete files because the system warned them that they were low on ram or talk about buying more memory because the hard drive was filling up. It is something that we all assume everyone knows, but a huge portion of the population doesn't.

  126. What I do by Tinned_Tuna · · Score: 1

    For this to work you have to be there. My "users" are generally classmates. my first attempt normally goes "Click File, print, -" then they're like "what, where, gimme a sec" then I wait around 5 minutes. I then get up, gesticulate wildly at the screen going "Click *here*, then *here*" and then they're like "I can't see the screen! Move your hand", repeat once or twice. Then, finally (normally 10 minutes after the question was asked) I take the keyboard off them, hit the hot key, and press enter, wadle to the front of the room and collect their print off. I then have to cope with 6 more of these questions.

    I can't complain, they only know how to use windoze to do (insert job here) click here, then here, then here. It's far faster and easier to convey just to say goto start, run, type cmd and press enter. then type XYZ and press enter. I may like GUIs but conveying instructions is best done through a standard CLI thats standard.

    Now, *teaching* users require a very large book and a very good teacher with a strong arm to hit the student with. Users will not learn, unless it gets them to do their job instantly think about telling a newbie to click start to turn the computer off...

    also, i like macs, i know people who are computer illiterate, who have come and sat down at my mac, logged in, gone online, blah blah blah, and only asked me one or two questions. And I don't have to hover to make sure they don't download spyware, adaware, viruses... etc.

  127. mp3 vs. CD audio, songs vs. data by podRZA · · Score: 1

    I find these questions surprisingly hard for non-computer people to answer. What is the difference between a data CD with mp3's on it and an audio CD? What is the difference between a data CD with mp3's on it and an "mp3 disk" (like the kind Nero has a wizard for)? This tends to blow minds as well: Your iPod holds 30gb of DATA! Most of the data happens to be mp3 audio files that are played by a software mp3 player on your iPod. To say it holds 10,000 songs is an ESTIMATE. "I burned this CD put it won't play in my CD player" "That's cause you burned an mp3 disk, not an audio CD" "OK, how do I burn an audio CD?" "Start the CD burning wizard, and drag all the mp3 files you want on it onto the playlist" "wait...that's what I did before" "No you burned a data disk with mp3's on it not an audio CD whose audio originally came from mp3 files" "uh...what?"

  128. Users NEED an appliance by no_pets · · Score: 1

    Most grandmas and Joe Sixpack users out there NEED an appliance. No PC is an appliance right now. Until they can get what they need we will be bitching and they will be bitching as well.

    All of those users COULD be using Linux but will not be for the foreseeable future. Maybe if Microsoft could make an "appliance" version of Windows instead of all the other versions (Home, Pro, Media) that basically turned everything off (java, etc.) made the default user the lowest user class available, and only installed applications during Windows Update that are truely needed then some of the problems might be a little less frequent.

    Maybe the Update Center could even have a list of programs that can be installed upon request. Hey, just an idea. ;-)

    --
    "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." - Shepard Book Quoting Malcolm Reynolds
    1. Re:Users NEED an appliance by agent_no.82 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps a subset of computers should be sold on this philosophy. You could use a specialized Windows, or a Linux, or something. This would be sold in that configuration at the store, with no hardware configuration difficulties, automatic updates, and all the apps Joe might need. E-mail, Web, Word Processing. That would be all. If you don't let anything install or play with the settings other than the update (verifying would be the tough part), it should remain usable and not ruined for a long time.

  129. Why a book? by kent_eh · · Score: 1
    Anything that looks like it'll take more than a few minuites to read, probably won't be.

    People who are woefully un-informed about computers generally aren't going to be interested in reading anything longer than a pamphalet about the subject. If that.

    Think about it, how often have you re-explained the same thing (ferinstance "Why doesn't the computer just know the difference between a good program and a bad one?") to the same person, only to have them glaze over, and repeat "but why?"


    I admire your initiative, but I'm skeptical about much of a positive result.

    --

    ---
    "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
  130. What FILES are. by simetra · · Score: 1

    This seems to be the biggest mystery for many.

    Explain what files are. Explain what programs are. Explain that you use programs to open/run/play files. Explain that files go places, most usually on the hard drive, and they're sorted into directories, or 'folders' if you insist. Explain that everything is kept in files one way or another. The computer doesn't just magically know everything.

    From there you could also explain how files are loaded into memory, saved, deleted, copied, moved, etc.

    --

    "Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
    1. Re:What FILES are. by bp+m_i_k_e · · Score: 1

      I couldn't agree more. Some older users in particular have no clue what a file is. I can't tell you how many times I've heard comments about Word documents being "in" Word.

      AND...

      Explain how to configure Windows to reinforce what they learn in the book. There are some Windows settings that encourage users to know less than they should.

      For example, tell readers how to show file extensions. Hiding them by default is possibly the most assinine Windows default setting. The file extension is part of the file name. Hiding it (and relying on icons) is ridiculous.

      Find a good "real world" analogy for people to understand the relationship between a file and an application - like the file is the VCR tape and the application is the VCR, which allows the tape to be viewed or changed.

  131. Lies, damn lies, and computer malfunctions... by benjamindees · · Score: 1

    how to at least say where the problem is.

    That's it right there. When you go to the doctor, you tell them what hurts. When you go to the mechanic, you tell them what noise your car is making. When you need computer help, you make up something vague to tell the computer guy, like "the internet doesn't work", and usually the computer guy gives you a vague answer back, like "you need a completely new computer".

    And the sad thing is, there's no way to bridge this divide. Every person who works on computers has tried to explain computers to average people in ways they can understand. And every one has tried to get average people to explain their problems with computers in ways *we* can understand. Their eyes glaze over, they say "I'm stupid, just fix it", and I end up billing two hours to determe that a USB cable is unplugged.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  132. sorry to say it but.... by i2878 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You are assuming people care that they don't understand. I support a 100+ users who just plain don't care to know or understand anything beyond their fingertips. Those that care have already been paying attention.

    Bottom line is that don't want a PC, they want a toaster. Turn it on, put in bread, wait 30 seconds and out pops my toast. Every time.

    But we're not talking about toasters, are we?

    --
    legal. fun. profitable. pick two.
    1. Re:sorry to say it but.... by conJunk · · Score: 1

      we're *clearly* not talking about *my* POS toaster...

    2. Re:sorry to say it but.... by jibjibjib · · Score: 0

      What about the NetBSD toaster?

  133. Nothing by melted · · Score: 5, Funny

    The less they know, the more I can charge for my services. :0)

    1. Re:Nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you were the RIAA, you would be suing this man for potentially infringing on your future profits!

    2. Re:Nothing by hobbit · · Score: 1


      I'd get it just for my parents, who freely interchange words in the following sets when trying to describe problems over the phone:

      {Computer, Monitor, Screen}

      {Disk, Memory}

      {Internet, Email, Network, [World Wide] Web, Browser}

      {Word, Excel, Outlook, Windows, Microsoft, Explorer, Window, Box, Alert, Writing, Text, Message, Screen, Computer}

      etc.

      --
      "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
  134. The Forgotten Basics... by richardtallent · · Score: 1

    - Basic hardware. CDs, DVDs, hard drives, flash memory devices, monitors. Broad concepts, not specific formats.

    - Networks, drives, folders, files, file formats, DRM, icons, and shortcuts. If someone doesn't grok these concepts, they'll ALWAYS be lost. Explain some general pros/cons to various common file formats (JPEGs, etc.).

    - Operating systems, drivers, applications, windows, and dialogs. Installing, upgrading, removing, and replacing. File associations and "default" Internet applications.

    - Exercises with every chapter burned on a CD included with the book. Not movies, but actually interacting with their own PC using the files provided.

    - Practical security: updating the OS, using OSS web and email programs, antivirus, spotting phishing and likely emailed viruses/worms, backing up personal files, the difference between freeware and malware, avoiding snake-oil products like firewalls, registry and memory "optimizers", cookie cleaners, etc.

    - Net 101. Connections, web browsing, email management, replying, forwarding, hoaxes, urban legends.

    - Basic mousing: double-click, single-click, drag/drop, right-click, etc.

    Probably a lot of other topics, but these are a few that the true N00Bs I know have had issues with.

  135. Old Time-Life book series by Acting+Ordinant · · Score: 1

    There was a Time-Life book series published in the 80s that did what you're describing. The series was published by subscription, where you got one book per month, each on a different facet of computers and networking.

    I believe the series was called How Computers Work, or something similar. A library might have a copy of the series if you want to see how they did it.

    Each book was heavy on graphics and professional illustrations, with text placed as a filler on the page. The text was simple, to the point, and did not play down to the reader.

    I collected the whole series back then, to lend to people who asked beginner questions, and to have a ready supply of illustrations of the insides of computers. I gave away my series a while back, but it is worth tracking down as a good starting point for your book.

    Good luck!

  136. the problem isn't with computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem isn't that people don't understand computers, hardware, OS, Internet, etc. The problem is that even if they have that information, people don't understand basic troubleshooting theory - in a word (two words) "problem solving." If you look around (outside the world of IT) you'll see the same ineffectual flailing by many people whenever faced with any kind of problem: They simply don't know how to define what's really wrong, run controlled tests to separate what is working from what's not and eliminate possibilities, check simple things first, etc. Thos same processes can be used to fix a computer, fix a car, or solve a crime. Without an understanding of those processes to the facts, the facts themselves aren't much use.

  137. The biggest obstacle by jim_v2000 · · Score: 1

    The problem I think you are going to run into is getting people to read your book. I like to use the car analogy. I drive my car, but when things go wrong, I really have no idea what the problem is beyond "There's a clunking noise coming from under the hood". But I don't feel compelled to go read a book about it to figure out why or where the car is broken. I just take it to a mechanic to fix it. That's his job, not mine.

    Most people just don't care to learn how to fix their machines...they just want someone else to make it work so they can keep on doing whatever it was they were doing. And we (geeks)should be glad...it's a pretty lucrative business.

    --
    Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
  138. Constraints and Practical approaches by Grim+Beefer · · Score: 1

    First off, I think informal, periodic quizzes from time to time would help with reading comprehension. I would say the more pictures the better for hardware, and I don't just mean illustrations. Perhaps you could start off with one modular component (the case say) that you slowly add onto - piece by piece like a puzzle. In this way you could focus on the idiosyncrasies of the machine elements, while keeping it all grounded in visual space. For operating systems, I think that you should explore what all systems must have in common before you delve into the specific details. If lucidly built upon an understanding of the different hardware components, you can easily explain what drivers are and why some components don't need them. Perhaps most of us slowly acclimated to our OS over time through use. You will need to compensate for this natural gravitation by supplying examples that are familiar, or that a reader can follow along with. I feel as though metaphors can sometimes hurt more than they help; I would just make sure that it's simple and not too absurd.

  139. Limits by digitalhermit · · Score: 1

    I wish people would understand the limits of what a computer can and cannot do. There's an impression that computers are very smart and should be able to detect all mistakes in the same way a person can. They can autocorrect a spelling error but fail when typing in a URL and many don't understand why it's pedantic in one context but not another. (Actually, URLs may soon have this behaviour too as search engines improve).

  140. Who is the audience? by jbolden · · Score: 1

    I think you need a clearer idea of who the audience is. The following all need very different books:

    1) Typical home user who wants: internet, email, word processing, some spread sheet...
    2) Gamer moving from console to PC based games
    3) Typical corporate user who is trying to figure out what is going on
    4) Corporate manager looking to explain problems to IS staff
    5) Teacher looking to explain concepts to children

    etc...

  141. Some Ideas by suwain_2 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Don't go crazy on the history, but you should probably go into it a little bit. People want to know how to work their current computer, not how ENIAC worked.

    I'd thought for a while about trying to help put together an introductory Internet course, and had made some decisions I think are important. One of my teachers (thankfully, not in the CS department) once started talking about how your computer broadcasts its IP address to every computer on the Internet, and that's why you get so much spam. People will parrot back information they get, without really understanding what's going on. So lay a good framework. Explain IP addresses, but on a basic level. (Don't get into configuring a broadcast address or how BGP4 works.) The analogy of a phone number works decently, and can also be used to explain netblocks. Then introduce DNS.

    I'd mention bits and bytes, and megabytes and gigabits, but on a more basic level. But if you explain it well, in layman's terms, I think you can have the average person understanding why their 60 GB hard drive holds less.

    I'd devote a reasonable portion of the book to understanding how things work. Why is spam such a problem? How do people get spam? What can they do about spam? How do they protect against viruses? (You can mention various anti-virus programs, but also encourage basic (seemingly not-so) common sense. Don't open random attachments. Don't download random programs.) Explain how some common viruses have spread: especially those that could be prevented by user training. ("Hey, check out this .exe attachment!")

    Cover wireless, and mention its security implications, as well as the potential for interference. (My 2.4 GHz cordless phone and my 802.11g router don't always play nicely.)

    Current events are important, too, IMHO. What is "P2P," and why is this R-I-A-A making such a big deal about it? (Try not to be biased!) What's Linux? How is a Mac different from a PC?

    Overall, I think it's important to cover a lot of topics, even some that the average user might not deal with everyday, as it helps to lay a good framework for actually understanding how things work. The most important thing, though, is to use a really clear, non-technical tone. In my experience, this is a "gift" some people have, and some don't, and it makes the difference between whether you just confuse people further, or whether it all makes sense when they hear you talk.

    --
    ________________________________________________
    suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
  142. Teach them to read error messages! by Xshare · · Score: 1

    I can't tell you how many times parents and relatives have come to me saying that the computer has a problem and won't do something they want it to do. When I come to check it out, 50% of the time, whenever they try to do whatever it is, an error message comes up that explains the exact nature of the problem and how to fix it. :-x

  143. Computer Education 101 by benbranch · · Score: 1

    1. The floppy drive is not a "credit card slot".

    2. The optical drive is not a "coffee cup holder".

    3. Hard Drive does not mean "tough".

    4. Kazaa = Bad

    5. Windows = Bad

    6. Slow/broken computers do not respond to threats, violence or psychological warfare (unfortunately).

    7. Use Firefox NOT IE.

    8. Computer = Friend.

    9. Internet = Good. The internet is only as evil as you are.

  144. simple mistake by fuentes · · Score: 1

    wallpaper != screensaver

    I don't know how many times I've heard people mix up the two.

  145. Thank you so much by Budenny · · Score: 1

    Thank you so much for posting this, I haven't laughed so much for a long time. What a great discussion. Oh dear, how true. How difficult, how impossible, how true!

  146. "CPU" by dlichterman · · Score: 1

    Please tell people that their tower is NOT called the CPU or the MODEM.....we have those people at work all the time

  147. Eternal Problem by flathead_iv · · Score: 1

    Mandatory Penny Arcade link.

  148. How to be safe online by Isaac-1 · · Score: 1

    I think the number one thing you need to talk about is not what is a hard drive, or the difference between DDR ram and a thumb drive, but instead it is how to be safe online. Simply saying never give out personal information is not enough. They need to know how to (relatively) safely buy things on Amazon, or ebay. How not to fall for the various email tricks. I have an older relative that has been using the internet for 4-5 years recently fall for one of these emails asking for credit card information. The email claimed to be from their ISP and said that the credit card that was on file had expired, then provided a click to add a new one link. The site looked legit, except for a small typo in the url.

    Ike

  149. pc for dummies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Weird that the article author couldn't find this book:

    PC for dummies
    ISBN 0764540742

    Pretty much covers computers in laymans language, doesn't go too deep, and is funny as well. (Lies about lots of stuff to avoid going into detail, though, but does it so that it doesn't matter).

  150. A gigantic FAQ by roman_mir · · Score: 1
    Few people will read your book if it will try to teach them general computing ideas, BUT if you create some sort of a knowledge base - that maybe useful.

    Example of a user question: my computer is too slow, what do I do?

    Your book could provide a section: Speeding up your SLOW computer:
    1. If your computer is unusually slow right now
      1. It became slow once you installed new software (walk through CPU eating process names, walk through finding the process name on the internet, walk through debugging the problem by uninstalling software, etc.)
      2. It became slow once you installed new hardware (walk through steps necessary to debug the faulty software - explain how to zero down on the problematic piece, etc.)
      3. It became slow but you didn't knowingly installed anything onto it (walk through process CPU cycles, process memory sizes, maybe some network scanning tools like netstat etc.)


    2. If your computer just slow all the time
      1. Let's look at the number of applications that are running at the same time (walk through Ctrl+Shift+Esc, applications/processes/performance tabs, figure out if the CPU cycles are way up there on a specific process, walk through figuring out what the process is, explain what killing a process means.)
      2. It became slow once you installed new hardware. (maybe hardware is faulty, maybe drivers are not loading ... )
      3. It became slow but you didn't knowingly installed anything onto it (if the machine is on the net, walk through CPU eating processes, maybe it's a virus, walk through an antivirus download/installation/usage etc. Maybe it is actually an antivirus running to noisy, walk through antivirus scheduling for the night etc.)




    --

    This FAQ can become of gargantuan size, even to manage the TOC for this book would require some kind of a two way mapping mechanism. Maybe it shouldn't be a book but a piece of software, a knowledgebase? Or maybe it is a book and software in one package?

    Anyway, good luck with that, it will be tough - explaining in a book what takes many years of experience and serious problem solving abilities.
  151. What to cover? by NorbrookC · · Score: 1

    Other posters have covered the obvious things, but two issues that used to drive me nuts were a simple ones: Failure to update antivirus software; and how to plug in the keyboard/mouse/etc.

    I'd have someone bring in a computer loaded with viruses, and after telling them that was their problem, they'd insist I couldn't possibly be right! After all, "I have McAfee on it!" Yes, they did, but it was the original install that came with the computer, and only several years out of date.

    I also used to cringe when I'd get asked to "come out and hook up(or unhook) my computer." This always brought complaints about the bill, and really is something simple - where and how do you plug in the keyboard (and I've seen someone trying to screw it in), the mouse, printer, and speakers.

  152. I want to be a shell script when I grow up by DennisInDallas · · Score: 1

    yeppers!
    If people wanted to know about computers they would learn...
    There is already about a bazillion books about various aspects of the subject. Is this new one gonna be an index to thems? Or maybe an overview of them all?

    There was a post a couple days ago about a guy that wanted everybody to help make a book about all the known science (or was it the sum of all knowledge), maybe you could just bootleg a section from that one.

  153. Random list of suggestions... by mengel · · Score: 1
    1. what the various parts of the computer are (monitor, case, media drives, power cables, network cables, etc.)
      1. identify common cables by the plugs
      2. identify media that can go in different drives
      3. what happens when things are done wrong (i.e. plug phone line into ethernet jack -- telephone rings -> smoked ethernet port; loose video connection -> screen is "all red")
    2. Fundamentals that will probably never change:
      1. Computers need power -- no power => no computer usage
      2. Computers don't eat: coffee, peanut butter & jelly, Coca Cola -- all BAD for computers.
      3. Computers generate heat -- blocked fans => dead computer
      4. Magnettic/optical storage -- how to make floppies, CD's unreadable... and don't do that!
      5. Software does what the programmer said to do, not neccesarily what you want it to do
      6. Sometimes you have to "trick" the computer into doing what you want -- the printouts come out off center, so tell it to make a bigger top margin than bottom to have it come out right...
    3. How to describe what's going on to a helpdesk/support hotline
      1. give "concrete" 20-questions type descriptions (sounds like.., looks like..., etc.)
      2. screen dump images are good, or draw what's on the screen for reference (FAX?)
    4. Intro to internet, http
      1. DNS name lookups
      2. conecting to site
      3. requesting service
      4. receiving data
      5. what it looks like when things go wrong at each stage... i.e. DNS doesn't say "permission denied"...
    5. Do applications -- what they're good/bad for.
      1. Web browser
      2. Email client
      3. Word processor
      4. Spreadsheet
    6. Tech support by Google Search
    --
    - "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
  154. What they need to understand: a rant by jdigriz · · Score: 1

    People need to understand that the computer is telling them something about its state every second. They need to understand that icons are not actually files and can just as easily be inaccurate as accurate about the content of the file. They need to understand the concept of a tree directory structure and that the location of items within that structure is important, persistent, and doesn't change at a whim unless they changed it. They need to understand the difference between single and double-clicking and that doing one when they should the other will have unintended results. Also, that stray clicks can matter.
    They need to understand that using computers properly demands precision of action, knowledge and observation that is not usually demanded in normal human interactions. Everything they do matters, and if it's not precisely right then the computer will not behave as intended.

    It would also be useful for them to understand the concept of networking. Not the details, just the fact that wired networks must be connected at all junctions, wireless networks require working transceivers and antennas on both ends, and that files on a fileserver actually exist on that server despite the fact that one can view them and use them from the computer on their desk while the network is working.

    They need to understand that computers are a technology that is new, constantly changing, experimental and incomplete. That computer technology does not have the same polish and reliability as telephones, refrigerators and automobiles that have spent a hundred years getting to their current level of reliability. They need to understand that their computer and hard drive will absolutely fail, probably at the worst possible time, and that computer data is basically fragile and evanescent. This leads into the necessity of knowing the importance, strategies and mechanics of backing up. And actually doing it.

    One more useful thing for end users to know would be that power outages, surges and brownouts can damage their computer and that a UPS is helpful in preventing data loss.

    And finally, as a technician myself, they need to understand how frustrating it is to watch users who do not or will not learn repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot with their computers when they would be better off and much happier using a legal pad.

  155. They only do what you tell them to. by HunterZ · · Score: 1

    I'm a life-long computer and video game nerd with a BSCS and one year of work experience as a software engineer. I learned to program BASIC as a kid in the mid 80s by typing in programs from books and magazines, then by messing with the code to see what it did, then by making my own little games and utilities.

    A computer nerd friend with whom I was living last year (who had been building, configuring, and maintining his own computers and doing his own case mods as a main hobby for several years) was just starting to get into programming by way of a community college programming class. After coaching him for a couple weeks it finally clicked with him how a CPU works, processing one instruction at a time and operating on the current contents of memory with no knowledge of what came before or what comes next (well, except maybe in modern processors but that's beyond the scope of a basic discussion). There is no magic or artificial intelligence built into the CPU - it's mostly just a simple workhorse that can follow a specific set of directions to move bits from one bucket to another and perform elementary math operations and logic evaluations.

    It was pretty cool seeing this dawn on my friend, as if I had whisked him behind the curtain where only computer programmers are allowed to hang out. I think if more people realized this, they wouldn't be as intimidated by computers because they'd know how true it is when we say "computers are stupid - they can only do what you tell them to".

    --
    Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
  156. Computers vs Console TVs by protolith · · Score: 1

    For most users computers are appliances at the level a console TV was in the '70s. Right on the cusp from when it was a novelty to when it is a necessity for entertainment and information. Think of the old console TVs they had a whole bunch of knobs that controlled horizontal hold, verticle hold, brightness, contrast, and tuned the TV frequency. Let a kid play with the knobs for a few minutes and the tv could be rendered unwatchable. Prone to causing an epiliptic siezure. It could take hours to get the settings back to where you wanted them, you might miss the show you are watching, you may never quite get it back the way you though you had it. Now take this analogy to a modern PC connected to the internet, without proper security (firewall, spyware, virus software)a PC is like that console with the knobs wired to the outside where all the neighorhood kids can screw with your settings and know what you are watching. And the commercials are trying to trick you to let them play with the knobs.

  157. Recommended Books by Alien54 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I like this series of books. They explain things that most books assume you already know.

    Things like the difference between the left mouse button and right mouse button. (primary and secondary click, secondary click = menus, etc) Which everyone one knows, but not really, not for true beginners.

    Lots of visuals, with just one concept covered per page.

    Strangely enough the cartoon floppy disk character pointing at important things actually improves the effectiveness of the text for beginners, instead of using a simple highlighted arrow in the picture.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  158. Basic Computer Terms and concepts please by aflat362 · · Score: 1
    Please explain the following terms simply, and with illustrations
    • Operating System
    • File
    • Directory / Folder
    • Program / Software
    • Cut
    • Copy
    • Paste
    It wouldn't hurt to explain that Microsoft Windows is an Operating System - and that other Operating Systems exist. A little anti-MS bias is always good.

    And if you can write it in a way to get my Mom, Grandma and Aunt to understand these things these things I will buy them each a copy.

    Get a thread highlighted in Slashdot (Sneak it in a book review or a followup to this post) so we can all know when its published!

    --

    Conserve Oil, Recycle, Boycott Walmart

  159. Icons by whitebishop57 · · Score: 2, Informative

    One thing that has to be in this book. Deleting the desktop shortcut DOES NOT delete the program.

  160. Subject Suggestions. by wipis · · Score: 1

    Teach proper terminology. I think this is most important. Keep it simple and inform people what a monitor is, a hard drive, memory, power supply, video card, sound card, motherboard etc. They dont need to know what the difference is between Nvidia and ATI or a good speed for a hard drive. But when I explain something to a laymen friend and they dont know the difference between space (hard drive space) and memory. Or my boss saying she paid $3000 for 2 hard drives when she ment two new computers.

    Talk about how to use google to find out how to fix simple problems like spyware or where to find codec's.

    Maybe a short chaper on how to clean a computer. Just a simple open and spraying a little compressed air. Ive seen computers with a nice layer of dust covering everything. A power supply literally filled with dust.

    Be sure to tell people that just because they read your book doesnt mean they know everything there is to know. Its sad when people talk like they know everything but they still dont know how to empty their recycyling bin.

    Tell people to stop keeping everything on their desktop.

    The difference between the internet, OS and hardware problems.

    Explain that computers arnt that hard to use or understand. It just takes a little time and patience. Dont be overwhelmed just stay calm and go one step at a time. The computer wont run away from you and if something bad happens it can probably can be fixed so dont be afraid to try to tweek and attempt repairs. Laymens shouldnt play with windows fills or the registry but they can delete un-important files, defrag hard drives, install software and tweek settings.

  161. Re: Basic File Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't tell you how many people I've met who can run some applications, but do not understand how to create folders and look up files that they have saved. Some people run computers for years without learning this. Please newbies, buy a book and LEARN THIS FIRST!!!!!!!!

  162. That the computer is a machine by Juhani · · Score: 1

    I have many times had to explain the fact that for the most part the computer only does that what you tell it to do. In regards to this I kinda like this quote...

    To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so.
          - Robert Orben

  163. I'll tell you what people should know.... by ShineyMcShine · · Score: 1

    call me...

  164. Amatures... by east+coast · · Score: 1

    From the blurb: What does the general public think they understand, but really don't?

    I think the general public needs to understand that... They suck and geeks rule!!

    Seriously, I hear your call but I don't know what to tell you. I'm currently dealing with two members of the general public that know little; one thinks he knows everything, the other doesn't give himself enough credit (my 61 year old dad and my 14 year old nephew, you determine which one doesn't know anything, heh).

    Maybe not a good place to start but I think that amatures need to know that there are certain things they shouldn't trouble themselves about until they get some dirt under their fingernails, so to speak... these people use any buzzword to describe anything they don't understand.

    --
    Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
  165. Book wont work - Assumptions ALL WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A) most REAL IT people dont answer questions from the general non-computer literate public in the way you seem to think they do ... they simply FIX the problem because EXPLAINING it is not time-cost-effective..

    B) most NON IT people DO NOT WANT to `understand' `how' the computer works - they want it to just work the way a CAR does - you turn the key - and it functions -like magic ! they have no interest in taking a course or reading a book on general automotive theory even though they DRIVE a car and they have NO INTEREST in nowing DIDDLY about how a computer works even though they USE one...

    they are pissed that they break so often and Unkie Bills buggy unsecure software is largely to blame for that ( a message that is starting to trickle down ) but what the PUBLIC wants is not a `computers for dummies' book - what they want is a computer that works as TROUBLE FREE as their CAR .. and with as little knowledge require - a car like a computer is a TOOL - they dont want to KNOW how to fix it - just the BARE MINIMUM requried to use it to do what they want ...

    - Your book will fail spectacularly because the PUBLIC doesnt want it.

  166. Start with some basic terminology... by kettch · · Score: 1

    Like the difference between copy, download, and install. Far to many people say things like: "Give me the cd so that I can download the program onto my computer", or "I'm going to download these mp3s onto my player"

    Or the difference between memory and disk space.

    Although, for a lot of people, no amount of explaining is going to help.

    --
    Opportunities multiply as they are seized. --Sun-Tzu
    1. Re:Start with some basic terminology... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Far to many people say things like... "I'm going to download these mp3s onto my player"
      Interesting. You seem to be implying that this is improper usage.

      But FOLDOC defines "download" as follows:

      To transfer data from one computer to another. Downloading usually refers to transfer from a larger "host" system (especially a server or mainframe) to a smaller "client" system, especially a microcomputer or specialised peripheral, and "upload" usually means from small to large.
      So in that case, "I'm going to download these mp3s (data) (from my larger "host" system PC) onto my player (smaller "client" system)" is completely correct.

      Perhaps another book idea would be one that explains to all of us IT types that WE don't have authority over the definitions of words - USAGE determines it. If everyone calls this "downloading", then guess what - it's downloading. Deal with it. And shut up about "hacker" already...

    2. Re:Start with some basic terminology... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the jargon file says this:

        To transfer data from one computer to another.
      Downloading usually refers to transfer from a larger "host"
      system (especially a server or mainframe) to a smaller
      "client" system, especially a microcomputer or specialised
      peripheral, and "upload" usually means from small to large.

      Others hold that, technically, download means "receive" and
      upload means "send", irrespective of the size of the systems
      involved.

      Note that in communications between ground and space,
      space-to-earth transmission is always "down" and the reverse
      "up", regardless of size. So far the in-space machines have
      invariably been smaller; thus the upload/download distinction
      has been reversed from its usual sense.

      And I don't care how the great unwashed masses use words. Most people can barely remember their own name, let alone complex things like which words to use, or which end of their body goes on the toilet. People can piss off and leave me the hell alone!

  167. Oops... by Sr.+Pato · · Score: 1

    I hit the "submit" button by accident. Anyways, the types of questions I want people to know are just basic things that we as "IT People" overlook, but are completely foreign to people that don't know squat. ie: 1) What a web-browser is. 2) Basic things about the internet specifically, since it's what most people use computers for anyways. e.x: What TCP/IP is. The significance of IP addresses. Simple scenarios that happen from time to time and how to deal with them ( like if your internet stops working, try resetting the damn modem, renewing IP Address, and disabling your Firewall). 3) The benefits of a Firewall/Anti-Virus and Anti-Spyware software (And what viruses/spyware are and can potentially do to your system, symptom-wise). 4) The difference between "Hard Drive" "CPU" and "PC". They are not synonyms. Basically, what I mean for #4 is that they get the correct information and terminology if they're going to be referring to it. I don't go around calling "hamburgers" "hotdogs".

    --
    Nobody's gay for Mole-Man. :-(
  168. How much detail should you go into? by Protectiva · · Score: 1

    Who is the target audience, and what is the goal?

    If your target demographic is the layperson whose computer usage is simply a means to an end, i.e. using a computer to do their job, then give them an understanding of the tasks they perform. And maybe a list of Do's and Do-Not's for basic computer usage on your network. Too much theory about the underlying tech will be overkill for someone who just wants to be able to perform their job. Think the level of explaination in a software User's Guide. Very specific, functional instructions for the tasks at hand. "This is how you set up automatic IP addressing on your computer. Click this, then click that."

    If you want to foster a basic understanding of the operating system and hardware and networking, then give them a comprehensive understanding of basic terminology and how all the components work together. Think the level of a For Dummies guide. General information on a broad scope. "Set up your computer as a DHCP client. Your computer then contacts the DHCP server to get an IP address. The DHCP server then gives your computer an available IP address."

    If you actually want the reader to understand the underlying tech, then explain the tech in detail. Think sysadmin manuals or those certification textbooks. Detailed info explaining how something works under the hood. "The DHCP client broadcasts a DHCPDISCOVER message, and any DHCP server that hears this broadcast will reply with a DHCPOFFER message.....etc"

    I've seen books that are geared towards the general public attempt to explain too much. And I've found that users on my network really need information specific to our setup, but do not want to know the underlying tech.

    I'm not disparaging the intellectual capabilities of the non-geek reader. I just think that they need a firm foundation in the basics before you can get into details. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

    --
    It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.
  169. My my my, what a sad day it is when by xystren · · Score: 1

    What a sad day it is when the "for dummies" books become too technical for the layperson.

    Cheers
    Xyst

  170. You Need Solid Analogies by Starchilde · · Score: 1

    I teach, and often times the subjects that I teach are technical or obscure topics that can be difficult for the layperson to grasp, especially if they have no background in the subject being taught. The solution to this, that works for me, is to develop a number of solid analogies between things most people understand and the subject at hand. For example, how computers work can be compared to preparing food in a kitchen (thanks to my IT friends for developing this one for me!). Specifically:

    In a computer you have things that are similar to things in kitchen, like...

    - Recipes show how to take ingredients, prepare them, and cook them for a desired result. Similarly programs are a list of instructions the tell a computer how to process data for a desired result

    - Cabinets or pantries, these store items that you cook with just like a hard drive stores files that the computer uses.

    - Counter space used to prepare items for cooking or eating, this is similar to RAM in a computer where programs and files are temporarily held before and after being processed ("cooked").

    - A stove of range top is where the food is cooked, this is similar to a CPU where the information from the files is actually processed

    - Serving dishes are where to food is displayed and eaten, this is similar to an output devices (monitor, printer, etc.) where the processed files are displayed for the user.

    You can expand on this analogy by showing how having a bigger stove (faster CPU) or larger countertop (more RAM) or more accessible cabinets (hardrives with wider pipes) will impact the speed and ease with which you can prepare a given recipes (speed of executing a program).

    I know this is overly simplified and can be improved on, but analogies like this one will go a long way towards teaching people what you want them to know. And that "a-ha" moment of the light bulb going on as someone understands what you are talking about (or writing about) is really worth it.

    I hope that helps.

  171. Need To Devote A Full Chapter by canfirman · · Score: 1

    ...on viruses, malware and spyware, and how to get rid of them. I've lost count the number of times I've had family and friends tell me their computer is either running slow or popping up images of pron/viagara ads/etc. When I ask them if they've ever scanned for spyware, they look at me like I have two heads. So, I would devote a whole chapter to that.

    --
    It is not our abilities that show what we truly are... it is our choices.
  172. Long book. by immorak · · Score: 1

    You might have to write a collection of books. I don't figure one book will cut it.

  173. Throw them to the wolves by ProZachar · · Score: 1

    Drill into their heads that you cannot cause permanent damage to the computer merely by using it[1]. You cannot cause permanent damge to the computer merely by using it. You cannot cause permanent damage to the computer merely by using it.

    Then, throw them to the wolves. Let them experiment on their own. Let them get themselves into trouble and don't bail them out. Being the always-rushing-to-the-rescue "computer guy" is like being the omnipresent government. You don't really fix anything for good. You just get people dependent on you instead of being self sufficient.

    I see this with my mom. She's used a computer for almost 15 years. She cranks out all kinds of cool lesson plans, assignments, and tests for her students (she's a HS Spanish teacher) with Word. She's not computer-dumb (I wouldn't say she's computer-smart either, but...). But if she gets into a problem and I show up to fix it, she wants to be the one sitting at the chair so "she can remember how to do it next time." As soon as I arrive on scene, all of her computer knowledge goes out the window. Downloading and unzipping files? Not a clue. Opening My Computer? Nope. Finding an "options" dialog? No way. She doesn't get that 99% of computer problem solving is improvised. She just expects that I know the exact order in the menus and dialogs. Even after I walk her through it (which is like pulling teeth, because she has forgotten how to do anything) I can count on her not remembering it and having to do the same thing some time later.

    So, for God's sake, next time, when someone asks you what you do for a living, tell them you solve hard math problems. Don't tell them you work on computers.

    [1]Obviously, doing things like changing voltages and overclocking can cause permanent damage, but how many people in this book's target audience are going to be doing things like that?

  174. files, programs, and memory by gowmc · · Score: 1

    If a user can be taught the difference between data files and executables and where they reside in memory at any given time, they are well on their way to understanding how the computer works. This is the foundation by which they can understand how everything else works.

    Web based email is probably the best example. There is some serious confusion for a lot of users about what exactly they are looking at. They can't tell the difference between a browser and a website because they don't understand the file/program concept. To them, the browser is "the internet". With fundamental computer skills, they can easily be taught that the browser is a program, which communicates with other programs over the internet to ask for a file, which is then sent back over, and shown on the screen.

    Your grandparents don't need to know programming, the tcp/ip header structure, how a hard disk is actually storing data, or anything else like this. They need to understand the parts they work with, which is files and programs.

    --
    -- If it aint broke, fix it till it is. --
  175. Who's your audience? by manonthespoon · · Score: 1

    I don't think the average computer user is very interested in "how hard disks work". I don't think most people care about "how" their TV works, or "how" their car works.

    For the vast majority of users( not IT or CS people ), computers are just tools. Because of the increasing complexity of cars very few people are expected to know enough about their car to service it themselves. I think that computers are headed in the same direction, if they aren't already there. The average non-it/non-cs person is not going to be dealing with the hardware directly, but instead dealing with the interface.

    The "average" user isn't concerned about how the components work. Instead, they're interested in how to make their computer perform a certain task. I think you can write a book like this and find that your intended audience has little to no motivation to read details about the internal workings of their computer

    I certainly understand the frustration of trying to explain something to a non-techy family member or friend and having their eyes glaze over. However, to solve that problem you have to try to express yourself in a way that actually addresses how they(the non-techy) think about computers. In my opinion, that means focusing on tasks, what they want to accomplish, rather then just descriptions of how the pieces work. Do they need more space to store photos?(Storage Capacity, kilobytes, partitions) Does it take forever to copy files?(System Bus, drive access times and transfer rates, etc). Depending on the task you can introduce the basic concepts associated with it and how they might solve a problem or actually accomplish something with the PC.

  176. forest for the trees by joeytsai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One fact about computers that even technical people often forget:

    The job of the computer is to make your job/task easier - it is not the other way around.

    Yes, there is a time and place to learn a particular interface for a specialized job, to configure a certain program to get a special behavior or download some patch or driver to get some random hardware to work. But these things should be the exception and not the rule. I think there's way too much software that forces the user to bend to its design/shortcomings, rather than the other way around.

    Futhermore, I'm rather saddened by the fact that nowadays I notice most people are afraid of their computers. They don't explore or try something new just to "see what happens" - because everyone has been bitten hard by some bug or some unexpected behavior and lost valuable time and data. So they have a very simple and rigid routine, one they know "just works", even if it's completely convoluted and non-sensical. I'm sure most people here have observed the same thing.

    --
    http://www.talknerdy.org
    1. Re:forest for the trees by davez0r · · Score: 1

      i have. how do i combat this?

      1. show them how to copy/paste
      2. a lot of repetitive tasks can be done using a macro or a mail merge
      3. use the right tool for the job - excel is not a database
      4. save, try something new, revert if it doesn't work

      anything else?

  177. What does the average user WANT to know? by Da+Zeg · · Score: 1

    In my personal experience, albeit little - I'm a CS student not employed in the field - so that extends to fixing friends' friends, my family (and their friends) computers whenever something goes wrong. Everytime they ask what caused the problem and I try to explain in as simple a way as possible (this could be a personal shortcoming) and how to stop it happening again the subject is usually changed or a blanket statement that they "Don't know about computers" supplied. The worst is my parents, the slightest little error or anything like y'know ones been downloadin pr0n and doesn't want the other to find out. You explain how to fix things, gain a bit more privacy and you can bet your kidneys that tomorrow you'll fidnd yourself fixing the same thing. They dont WANT to know, as long as I'm here they dont HAVE to know.

  178. computers? or PCs? by freshfromthevat · · Score: 1

    I notice that you didn't say "PCs".

    First things first
    1. Choose the right computer. If you can't understand the tool after a minor amount of instruction it probably isn't the right tool. You aren't stupid (look what book you are reading.) The tool is supposed to be designed for you, the user. If it isn't, then it may be the wrong tool. Some tools require too much practice to be useful or safe. Consider the helicopter, dental drill, violin, surf board or a car. A car is harder to own and operate than public transportation. To some the trade-off for car ownership is worth it. Is it better? Some computers are easier to learn and possibly less versatile. It doesn't help you to have a computer that is too hard to use. What computers are easier to buy, operate, transport, etc? What do you give up by picking a computer that is easy? Will WebTV, Xbox or Macintosh serve your purpose? Can you afford to have professional support for your computing needs?

    2. A computer is a device that processes. In order for a computer to be useful it must also interact. The ones that interact with humans generally have visual outputs and tactile inputs. it may be useful to know where the information that will be, is being, and has been processed is gotten from, used, and stored at. How the information is entered, used, and delivered is worth discussing.

    3. Interactions between computers is what networking is all about.

    etc...

    --
    .. Blub falls right in the middle of the abstractness continuum. -- Paul Graham
  179. Noone should use a computer without reading by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 1
    Two Andrew Tanenbaum books:
    • Computer Architectures
    • Computer Networks

    If someone reads and understands these, they are qualified to operate a computer.
    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
  180. um...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems to me that there aren't very many good books out there that explain to the layman what is really going on with computers.

    amazon.com --> Books --> Search --> "computer basics"

    Why don't you ask the authors of your ingenious book?

  181. What I hear most... by TheSlimbot · · Score: 1

    I find the most common confusion amongst laypeople is that they get memory, hard drive and CPU speed all mixed up. Client says: oh I need a new computer with 200 GB of hard drive..that will make it faster right? (you can also fill in "hard drive" with memory. Or you are asking how fast is the computer....and you get..."huh......256 of RAM? I think that's what the sales guy said it was..." Bottom line: stick with the basics (very basics). Most common user don't care why..they will just glaze over and throw the book away.

  182. Give them cake by Gekitsuu · · Score: 1

    An important thing to teach in the book would be how to research a problem they find. Not like troubleshooting but something along the vein of "I need a program that does X and want to find out what my options are" If you give a reader the tools to find open source/free software as well as the pay to play alternatives and weight the pros and cons of each, that would be useful in such a book. Or say they want to share photos with friends how does a non-alpha-geek evaluate the current offerings or even find the current offerings.

    1. Re:Give them cake by narcc · · Score: 1

      I once thought like you until I started to...

      I teach adult computer literacy classes. Oddly enought the concept of a computer program is often beyond the students initial understanding. That is to say, they typically don't come to class with that prerequisite knowledge, dispite all the opportunity they've had to acquire that knowledge. To us, a computer is a device that executes programs. To them, the computer is simply a device. If a computer contains different programs (WP vs. Word) then, in their eyes, the computers are different devices. Program types are difficult for them to understand as well -- as they lack a solid understanding of the concept of 'program'. They don't use a word processor -- they use word. They don't use an email client -- the use email -- outlook takes them to email.

      There is also a difference in how we consider computer programs that might affect their ability to understand their nature. We think of a computer program as a tool. They think of computer programs spatially, as a location. e.g. I use AbiWord to type documents. They go to Word Perfect to type their documents. You can understand how a tool works, but locations have a natural function, not a logical function.

      The idea that a file can also be a program is difficult for the reasons stated above. (Not to mention they have diffuculty understanding the purpose and concept of files. "No, no. My 'files' are all saved in Word." and they don't mean 'Word format') If a program is a list of instructions the computer uses to perform some function, then it's only natural that a program be stored in a file. However, the poor user never encounters this concept when they interact with the computer -- you can explain how it works, and they can parrot that back to you, but it's still just some abstract concept outside their experience with the computer. In the old dos days, things were different. Files and directories were all the user encountered. The files ending with .exe and .com were programs. The use typed the name of the program and the computer would 'run' that program. When they wanted to view the contents of a file, they needed a program that would display that information. They run the program, then open the file they saw earlier. It was all very simple. Now they 'click on a picture and the computer shows that picture' to you. The idea that a program was needed to display the picture is lost. That's just the way the computer works. The GUI may have made our computers easier to use -- I can't argue against that -- but it has made our computers more difficult for the new user to understand.

      I've found that my students respond very well to simple 'this is how you do it' type lessons while they respond poorly to 'this is how it works' lessons. Unfortunately for me, when I use the 'top down' approach, my students learn much less, but feel like they've learned more. When I use the 'bottom up' approach, my students learn more, but feel like they've learned less. I've had to strike a balance between the two to create lessons that engage the student in 'how to do it' while trying to get them to understand 'how it works'. It's not as easy as it sounds. I think the parent understood this.

      Special thanks goes to Microsoft for hiding the file system from the user with it's default 'hide exentions of known types' and mutilation of the Path when using windows explorer. Thanks again for providing a 'back button' in the same while moving the 'up' button farther right into no-click land. Extra thanks go to the info area to the right of explorer windows with no visible separation from the rest of the window.

  183. What to include by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i believe to actually teach someone "the computer" you would need to use diagrams, pictures, and artistic renditions. Actually, make it like a children's book. BIG WORDS, few words, tons of pictures. After all, when we're little and know nothing about "books" how do we learn? The books with big pictures, few words, and LARGE TEXT. Hence, a person who knows nothing about computers needs a similar approach. PLEASE don't get into the history of the internet or computers. Do I need that info to know how a computer works? No. Does anyone? No. You perhaps need to get into more detail as in "what" do you want this new computer user to know? How to protect themselves? Or how to logon to slashdot and read news? I think I just farted...

  184. Steps 1 thru... um... well... by NoDough · · Score: 1

    The biggest problem I've seen is that people think computers are just mechanical. They don't understand that what makes a computer a computer is that it will react differently based on different sets of data.

    For example:

    USER: OK, just give me the steps to make this happen.

    ME: Well, here's step 1 thru 5 if column A contains a number less than 100. But if column A contains a number between 101 and 500 then...

    USER: WAIT! What are you, stupid? I just want the steps to make this happen.

    ME: I'm sorry. You're beyond hel... er... I can't help you.

  185. I think a boat got missed.... by NiteShaed · · Score: 0

    ...a while back, mostly from computers being marketed as appliances. All along, people have expected to plug 'em in and just go, and almost never pay for work on them until it's time to upgrade (if even then). Maybe an automotive model would actually have been the best idea, where people brought their computers in for a "tune-up", or had a tech come out every so often to service them at home. What we ended up with is clueless but well intentioned users getting loaded down with all sorts of malware and assorted glitches, or if they're lucky, they find a friend who ends up being their personal service person. If they were getting regular service appointments, at least their machines would be in better shape, and they'd probably learn a few things along the way from talking to the service techs. Too late now I suppose.....

    Oh, and by the way, did the parent really deserve Flamebait? C'mon guys, that was kinda uncalled for, wasn't it?

    --
    Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
  186. Simple model that tells what they can't do by noidentity · · Score: 1

    The mose useful thing when I'm trying to understand something new is a simplified model that I can use to rule out many wrong understandings from the start. Along these lines, you might describe a general model that makes clear the kinds of things a computer can do and things it can't. Think of it as a form of compression by supplying a simple algorithm to get it mostly right, then a small list of corrections to get it exactly right. Maybe people whom this would help already understand computers.

  187. Interesting by suwain_2 · · Score: 1

    A lot of people (myself included) have given you lots of ideas for what to cover.

    There's something I think is important. Make it interesting. Make the beginning especially interesting. If you begin by explaining bits, and then bytes, and then files, and then programs, you're going to scare people away. If you begin with ancient computer history, you're going to scare people away. I'm honestly not sure how to begin, but can think of lots of ways not to begin. I've returned tons of library books because the first few pages weren't enough to pull me into them.

    I think the best suggestion for keeping the book interesting was to have the first chapter be a very broad overview, and then branch out into details. A very brief overview, with lots of, "I'll discuss hard drives in more detail in Chapter 7" sort of stuff might be much better at holding interest.

    I think you can draw lots of real-world analogies, too. Think of a folder as a manila file folder, except that it's common to put folders inside of other folders, often getting as many as a dozen nested folders. A "file" can range from a sheet of paper (a small text file) to a whole book. Some files can only be read (a letter someone sent you), some can be written on (a form), and some can be run (instructions). I think this can help people relate computer terms to things they already understand. Just make sure your analogies hold up: if you explain that the Recycle Bin is like your trash can, you should really talk more about "recycling" by erasing whatever's on the 'paper' and putting it back. (Which lets you discuss fragementation, too.)

    --
    ________________________________________________
    suwain_2 :: quality slashdot p
  188. The Interaction Paradigm by Boababa · · Score: 1

    In addition to the topics already discussed, my parents and other pre-computer adults I've taught have trouble figuring out how to intearct with software, conceptually. How do you know when to single-click or double click? It may be helpful to include the history of standard GUI interactions, such as how the mousing UI was developed/evolved - and in doing so explain why users have to click and drag to highlight or double-click to run. But, as with all other concepts you'll consider discussing, it would be very difficult to keep this chapter simple and manageable.

  189. All these incidents by Ken_g6 · · Score: 1

    It would be nice if they understood why all the people in these incidents were stupid.

    --
    (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
  190. What is a 'directory' (a.k.a. folder)? by careysb · · Score: 1

    The concept of directories is the question that I encounter the most when trying to teach computer newbies.

  191. Re: The Mac is not a typewriter! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    > In such a case, a computer is just a huge expensive word processor/typewriter.

    That reminds me-- an excellent introductory book to using computers is The Mac is Not a Typewriter, by Robin Williams.

    (no, not that Robin Williams.)

  192. Something to teach them by NotYoMama · · Score: 1
    Teach them that it's wrong to say, "My internet is broken."

    You do not have an internet. Your internet is probably broken because:
    1. You are using AOL
    2. You are using Internet Explorer
    3. You haven't cleaned your cache or temp files off of your 20 GB hard drive in the 8 years you've had that computer.
  193. What I wish... by danpsmith · · Score: 1
    What do you wish your users knew? What kind of questions are you so sick of answering because you hear them every week? What does the general public think they understand, but really don't?

    To be quite honest, there are quite a few things. I think one of the most important of which is the idea of a filesystem in general. The most computer illiterate of people don't understand how a filesystem works and are completely baffled when a shortcut even gets misplaced.

    --
    Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
  194. Navigating the filesystem and filetypes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I always start with a lesson on how to navigate through the filesystem, so they can find their pictures, downloads, etc., etc., and a quick rundown of how file extentions indicate what application can open the file. I also try to explain the difference between an application and the file browser (usually the finder cause I am teaching Mac newbies).

    I also spend a short amount of time on the difference between RAM and hard drive storage.

    This typically overwhelms them so I give them a few days off and then revisit the topics later.

    Most users suffer from the 'chocolate piano' syndrome. I first saw this behavior in my Advanced Pastry class at the CIA (the cooking one). EVERYONE who walks into the class wants to make a chocolate piano but no one is interested in making a simple truffle. My computer users want to make videos and photo slide shows but don't know where to find the file they just downloaded off the net.

    Then we start answering specific questions about specific applications. I also encourage them to keep a pad of paper next to the computer to write down their problems and frustrations. They are usually easy fixes for someone a little more savvy.

  195. Haven't our lives gotten too complicated? by joeflies · · Score: 1
    Is it even possible for someone to be functional in all the different areas that we expect them too? Nearly every person should have a fundamental graps of how to maintain a car (and fix it), how to diet, how to do financial planning, what is and isn't against the law, the tax code, and yes of course, computer security among others. My guess is most people aren't going to take the time to learn these items, especiallly since very few people walk out of school with background in this stuff.

    My only point is that we should strive to know how our complex lives function, but we shouldn't immediately call somebody dumb or get frustrated because they don't know what virus protection or spyware or how to RTFM. And no matter how good of a basic book is available, not everyone will read it. Just how many great books are available on car repair and maintenance, versus how many people know how to do it?

  196. 'How Computers Work' by Ron White by Burv · · Score: 1

    This book has a lot of nice pictures and diagrams, and explains not just hard drives and CPUs but things like GPS, Napster, etc. (although I have the sixth edition, I'm assuming the current eighth edition is probably similar). http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0789734249/sr=1-2 /qid=1137531708/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-3267622-7897402?_ encoding=UTF8

  197. What the user should know by dosquatch · · Score: 1
    I want from my users the same thing DMV wants from license-holders: basic safe driving skills.

    Meaning: to drive a car, you do not have to be a licensed mechanic. You don't have to know what a throttle linkage is or why it's important. What you do have to know are the controls that you use to interface with the vehichle. Seatbelts, steering wheel, pedals, mirrors, whatforth and whatnot. You have to know what they're called, what they do, and what you're supposed to do to them to get a desired result.

    Similarly, I don't expect my computer users to speak binary, swap hard drives, debug code, or get the green golf ball joke. What I do expext is that the user is at least passably familiar with the controls, both physical and logical. Keyboard. Mouse. Floppy drive. CD-ROM. Monitor.

    I expect them to know that the little 'x' closes the application and the little '_' minimizes the application. I'd like them to understand while Windows is the operating system, it is not the correct answer to the question "What program were you running?" I'd like them to understand, at least in a conceptual way, what a network is and why this means that I cannot "download the internet for them."

    I don't expect them to understand the mechanical differences between laser printing and inkjet printing, or even what toner is. "I need ink" is fine, just please, please tell me for what model printer.

    I would love to know why this one user can't be bothered to read all ten words in a dialog box before clicking "OK", downloading an evil Active-X and hosing his machine, but he'll take the time to completely document a BSoD. I doubt this is a computer issue, though.

    All I'm really looking for is basic competence. A comfort level somewhat warmer than cold hatred and sheer terror. The presence of mind and self-awareness to answer the question "What were you doing right before your term paper got ROT13ed?" The gumption to just tell me up front that they won't follow my phone directions, rather than making me walk across the building to press 2 buttons for them. At least don't expect me to believe the "it wouldn't do that for me" lie. No, YOU wouldn't do that for me.

    One day a year, I want it to be legal for each IT person to shoot one BSoD-documenting user as an example.

    Oh, not fatally, you sick freak! I'm not evil or anything. I'll settle for flesh wounds.

    --
    "Hey, the third matrix movie would have been good except for the plot,story, and acting." --AC
  198. Here's a Title For You by Aurelfell · · Score: 1

    "Try Rebooting". Seriously. It has a bit of a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reassuring quality too it.

  199. Re:Your Sig... by benjamindees · · Score: 1

    Maybe I shouldn't be one to argue about Sigs, but nonetheless...

    Most of the "Rights" that site says aren't "in" the Constitution are embodied in the 9th Amendment.

    "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" is not technically in the Constitution, but "life, liberty, and property" is in the 5th and 14th Amendments.

    "Of the people, by the people, for the people" is technically from the Gettysburg Address, but the Constitution begins "We the People..."

    I'm sure there are others. Those were just the most obviously misleading.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  200. A personal pet peeve: by Carik · · Score: 1

    On the history of the internet: it was NOT created to withstand nuclear attack. I've heard professors, co-workers, and journalists say that it was, but it wasn't. Go ask the folks who built it, or read "Where Wizards Stay Up Late," by Katie Haffner and Matt Lyons, who already asked. (Actually, that may be the best resource I've found for early internet history)

    Other than that -- people should know the difference between *bytes and *hertz, hertz and hurts, hard-drive capacity and RAM (which one is memory? In what context?), how optical drives work, how hard drives work, how magnetic drives work, and a basic history of operating systems. It would be good if more people understood the client/server concept as it existed before people had desktop PCs, and how it led to the concept of a desktop PC.

    I could go on for about 20 pages, just listing what I think is important.

    Good luck!

    (disclaimer -- I'm biased, because my father is referenced in the book as part of the ARPANet project. No, I'm not telling you who he is, but he claims the book is accurate.)

  201. Tell them how to reason.. by wbean · · Score: 1

    The problem with most beginning computer books is that they explain what the various parts of the computer are but don't tell the reader why he/she needs to know about them. What the user really needs is the ability to reason about the computer; the ability to figure out for themselves that the Internet connection is down, or that the mouse is unplugged.

    Certainly you can't reason about a computer without understanding the various parts, so you still need to describe them. But perhaps you could do it within the framework of a series of common problems. So, for example, you could have a chapter "What to do if your printer doesn't work." In that chapter you'd provide the usual troubleshooting advice but accompany it with an explanation of why you are performing the various steps and what you expect to learn from them.

    This approach might make a more interesting book to read and leave the reader with the ability to approach new problems on their own.

  202. Make it like "The Way Things Work" by Qubit · · Score: 1

    By MacCauley (sp?). Best darn book ever and I need to go get it from my parent's house at some point so I have it with me. I mean, how can you beat the pictures of wooly mammoths who demonstrate basic mechanical properties?

    Genius. Beautiful genius.

    Here's the new edition on Amazon: The New Way Things Work

    --

    coding is life /* the rest is */
  203. "Repairing" Commodity Boxes Lucrative??? by Dareth · · Score: 1

    What hourly rate can/do you charge for "repairing" (removing spyware/virus/trojans or simply reinstalling) computers?

    What is the magic hourly rate that makes this economical for both you and the owner of the computer?

    How do you obtain steady work? Questions I always asked myself.

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  204. Only one thing to understand.... by slashname3 · · Score: 1

    What part of "DON'T TAUNT HAPPY FUN BALL!" did you not understand?

  205. Computers should be appliances by unconfused1 · · Score: 1

    Computers should be appliances. Of all the full featured operating systems, MacOS X comes the closest (but doesn't really hit the mark either).

    Windows and Linux are nowhere close. In many cases Windows is worse on that mark.

    What is the mark? I want to approach a computer to accomplish a task, I want a VERY low learning curve, and I don't want to have to tweak or futz with it to make the computer accomplish the task (i.e. update drivers, constant virus updates, device managers, etc.)

    So...no one is hitting that mark, per se. But MacOS X comes closer than most.

  206. Re:What kind of questions are you so sick of answe by rjstanford · · Score: 1

    I remember having to go through contortions to explain the concept of a "file" and "directory" to my mom. Just how technical *do* you get? "Any file is just a bunch of data" can be a bit confusing...

    And yet people bashed the crap out of MSFT when they introduced terms to Windows like "Folder" and "Document" to try to solve this very problem. Not saying that you did, just finding it a little ironic that usability lags so much in general.

    --
    You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
  207. Computers are just machines. by Kelmenson · · Score: 1
    Demystify the computer by showing how it is simply a stupid little logic box that sometimes "AND"s, sometimes "OR"s, sometimes "NOT"s many simply true/false questions. Once somebody no longer thinks computers are magic, it gets a whole lot easier to explain to them what it actually is doing.

    It's an amazing jump... I had been writing software for over 10 years when I finally got to a hardware design course. First day of class, the professor told us that our final project would be building a 4-bit computer. Talk about panic! But 4 months later, the project was actually easy as cake.

    Now obviously you can't compress a full course down to 3-5 pages, but I think you could put enough to convince people that all a computer does is answer "yes or no" billions of times per second. Makes it much easier to tell them anything beyond that.

  208. Re:It's been written... Different Problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This brings up the key point. Maybe somebody should write a book on the joys of learning. Show people how not being ignorant of the world around them can bring them joy. Of course sometimes it brings infinite frustration!

    Teach people to learn basic things, like how does electricity work. To most people even that is magical still. The concept of circuits being open or close, how much load is on the circuit, etc. Most people think "plug too much stuff in, power goes off and you call the electician or building manager and they come magically fix your power." They don't even know why it blew the breaker, or what the breaker is.

    I know my grandparents generation understood things far more than most people do today. Unfortunately I think the general lack of knowledge is due to a school system that is intent on teaching facts and not knowledge, let alone wisdom. They teach basic set facts that are single entities, or sometimes tied together. But they don't teach the skills to take basic facts and extrapolate them into understanding reality.

    Maybe I am just overly optomistic about the human race?

  209. Two biggies I'd like to see by Frequency+Domain · · Score: 1

    1) I don't think most people have a valid mental map of what the pieces are, let alone how they fit together. At least once a month I find myself repeating to my dad "No, Internet Explorer is not the web. No, e-mail is not the web." The man is not an idiot, quite the opposite - he has over 50 patents to his name. However, he's 80 years old and never used computers before retirement. 2) I'd like people to understand the difference between supply-push and demand-pull in communications. Don't e-mail a copy of your 20M Powerpoint to everybody in the department, put a link to a copy on your personal web page and e-mail the link.

  210. I think you may get let down by scronline · · Score: 1

    Couple of things I thought should be said here. First off, the people that are asking those questions over and over again, won't read this book. They don't WANT to know. When a person doesn't want to know something the blinders come on and trying to take them off....well, you might as well back a badger into a corner and try to take it's pelt with a pair of tweesers.

    However, if that didn't dissuade you from trying, the things I see that people need to understand MORE than anything else is basic terminology. The whole computer is not called a Modem, CPU, CD-ROM, or disk drive. If people can use proper terminology (or atleast close enough that the tech can figure it out) then support calls would be cut in half.

    To help you explain things to a child, we compare things to something they already understand. In the case of computers (and the fact that I went to school for automechanics) I find computers can relate very well to cars in the average user's mind. Ie, the CPU is the engine, the keyboard and mouse are the pedals, steering wheel, and shifter and the monitor is the windshield. I'm sticking with the basic aspects for a reason. You may even want to make note that "you know what these are in a car, basic knowledge similar to that will make your computing world so much easier and rewarding."

  211. DANGER Will Robinson! by stupidkiwi · · Score: 0

    The thing that I have found is that when teaching beginners is to explain early the gravity of playing with certain things.

    They say that Beginners can do stupid things, and that with a small amount of information beginners can do a lot of damage. This is true.

    So you will need to explain that there are places in all OS's that you should never poke in and/or delete from. You will need to explain things like the guts of the machine are not scary, but getting your fingers even close to the BIOS can cause a static charge to ark to it.

    Oh, and a buyers guide. All new computer purchasers should find the software they want to run, then find out what OS or OS's it runs on. They then should have an idea of what they intend on doing with it. Simple home/small business use and Graphics = OSX, Home/Business use = Linux, Home/Business and Gaming use = Windows. That Windows has tons of payed help for beginners, Linux has moderate help for free for beginners and OSX has little help but is designed to be almost self explanitory.

    All Beginners should also go to lengths to find modern examples of all platforms to try them out for a few hours with software before deciding what suits them.

    The right OS and the right software for the beginner helps with understanding. For some beginners having the screen selector on Linux can be confusing, for other beginners the screen seletor is easy but they find having maany programs open in windows behind other windows on the one screen confusing.

    Keyboard shortcuts for cut, copy and paste are almost 100% cross platform and do speed things up. This would force you to explain the simple theory and use of a clipboard. I have found that some beginners confuse the clipboard with loading and saving files. Be very clear about the difference.

    Good luck.

  212. No problem, I got lots of them byte things... by Baavgai · · Score: 1

    Two biggest questions any "computer guy" get are, probably, "Can you show me how to use a computer?" balanced with "What computer should I buy?"

    The hidden question in what computer to buy is, which is better? The basic bits, CPU, RAM, and storage seem to bewilder. Particularly, since memory and HDD/storage use the same nomenclature, i.e. megabytes and gigabytes. The difference between memory and storage causes confusion all the time.

    I often put it like this: storage is the big cabinet you keep all your files in. However, in order to use a file you have to get up, pull it out of the drawer it lives in, and open it on desk for perusal. Thus, RAM is the desk. Filing cabinet space can be massive, but without enough deskspace, you're constantly shuffling papers.

    I tell newbies to by a mac or a dell, depending on how Windows oriented they are, and to "get all the tech support." If you can write a book that will stop the computer guy from getting all those calls for free tech support, your book with be a guaranteed preferred geek gift.

  213. ALL THEY NEED TO KNOW IS HOW TO READ A HELP FILE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ALL THEY NEED TO KNOW IS HOW TO READ A HELP FILE. That pretty much does it. Teach them how to get to the help files and the basic terminology and that is probably the most useful thing you can do. Anything beyond that is gravy, because if they care enough to actually RTFM then you don't have to do anything else.

  214. A few things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Egads, what a huge task.

    I will throw a couple thing out there I have seen I though were basics but cause either people grief or me grief.

    1. The Difference between memory and hard drive. Without getting technical. More than once I have seen people get out of memory error and then go in and delete files from thier hard drives to clean up space. One time this woman had something like 40 copies of word open 12 excels, email, web browser etc, she gets that error. So she goes in and deletes all her dll files. Why because she doesn't ever use them.

    2. Don't get in a panic, panic will just cause you more problems. I had another woman come to me all upset and in a panic her computer wasn't doing anything no matter what key she hit. So I go to her office and she had some how lost focus on the app in front of her. Hence the keys she was hitting wasn't doing anything because the app didn't have focus.

    3. Just because you see a computer expert do something. Do not think you can, or do not immitate an expert. Another example someone seen me using a mini pc vaccum to suck the lint and crud out of the computer. The next day they came in asking me to help them. Aparently they decided to clean out thier computer as well by hooking the big shop vac up at full suckion going across the motherboard. While Clean, they also sucked off every single jumper on the motherboard.

    4. Use your head look for the obvious, along the lines of don't panic. More than once someone has come running to me with a runaway computer. To which I walk over and remove their planner from the keyboard. Another thought do not eat over your keyboard or use heavy lotion on your hands on your keyboard. It makes your keyboard really gross.

    5. When in doubt use the help file. Not only will you find your answer usually without distubing several other people. You may learn a few other things you didn't know as well.

    6. The difference between double clicking and single clicking. While we are on clicking how about right clicking. Double clicking on a single click thing leads to many of the same thing open. Hence leading to error number one. Also if you double clicked on something and it doesn't open right away it may be because it is a large file or you are on a network, or something like that double clicking it again will just slow it down even more because now it is trying to process two of them.

  215. Computers: A simple explanation (or apology) by belrick · · Score: 1

    Computers are extremely patient. Computers are extremely stupid.

    Computers will do exactly what you tell them and won't second-guess your bad instructions. Someone has to tell them everything about what they are supposed to do. That means if people don't tell them right, they'll do the wrong thing. They'll do the wrong thing millions of times (see, they are patient).

    Sorry.

  216. Why file type conversions aren't perfect by Curl+E · · Score: 1

    This could cover raster versus vector image file formats, lossy versus lossless encoding, proprietry (.doc) versus open formats, etc. For an analogy with multiple lossy transformations compare to dubbing a cassette tape multiple times - if your target audience is old enough they will recognise that.

    --
    Backups are for wimps. Real men post their data in comments and have slashdot mirror it
  217. Interfaces by ShortAngryNinja · · Score: 1

    According to my family, the largest problem they face while they "learn" to use a computer is how to filter what they see on the screen, in both large and small scale. Basic things like knowing the difference between inputs (Button, Selector Box, Dialog Window...), and to the more complex, what is an ad on a web page.

  218. People write them all the time by Kylere · · Score: 1

    People write them all the time, but like most college textbooks regarding computers they are so horribly outdated by the time they hit the streets that they provide nothing but humor fodder for IS departments.

  219. Consider your audience by oddRaisin · · Score: 1
    I read your article, and I think you're already starting off from a flawed point of view. Your mother couldn't care less about the history of the internet. She really couldn't. There are a whole lot of people out there who don't want to know the why or the how. I know it's hard to understand that what you hold near and dear to your heart isn't really of interest to other people, but it's a fact.

    Don't try to teach someone how computers work by telling them about CPU utilisation, memory utilisation, memory leaks, and good programming techniques. That's for IT people to know and care about. Focus on easy to understand and largely correct analogies to things that they would understand ("Your computer as a human body" type of thing).

    At the end of the day, most people will want to use their computers rather than tinker with them. There are plenty of resources out there for people to learn basic usage, and if they haven't yet, they probably don't care enough to do it now. So you, as an IT person, should work on making programs easier to use, more secure, and less bloated. You will be doing a much better service to people everywhere than writing a book no-one will read.

    So I guess I'm saying, don't write the book. Some people will always be users, just as some people will always be creators and tinkerers. Just as I don't expect an artist to try to teach me the reason why pink and red don't go together (I just accept that as fact), I don't expect everyone to know how to write their own compilers. I can enjoy art just as that artist can enjoy surfing the web, and we both leave it at that.

  220. This book... by samjam · · Score: 1

    From Baker Street to Binary: An Introduction to Computers and Computer Programming (Paperback)

    # Paperback: 277 pages
    # Publisher: Mcgraw-Hill Osborne Media; 1st McGraw-Hill ed edition (June 1, 1983)
    # Language: English
    # ISBN: 0070369836
    # Note: Gift-wrapping is not available for this item.

    It covers computers in terms of telegrams and such technology easy to understand.

    It wont help people get a real understanding of what modern computers are doing; but it will help them understand the sorts of things they are doing (and I don't mean "binary addition") but like: Sherlock Holmes had the post office install a telegraph machine in his rooms, which he wired up to a train set (on which were stuck cut-outs of himself) so that he could control the casting of his shadows on the window without being inside. The parallel is, of course, a modem.

    The book presents a series of sherlock holmes mysteries and then discusses the technology he uses and what the computer equivalent is, thus the reader is capable of saying "ah, it's like a ..."

    Sam

  221. The best thing you can teach any one is to SEARCH by billrod · · Score: 1

    I think what most people don't do for whatever reason is search.... If there is a problem with your computer search on the problem/error code... People feel that things only happen to them and they are unique... Every problem I have seen supporting computers I have been able to resolve by serching for the answer... If people would only look for an answer they could probably solve most of their problems on their own...

    --
    Bill Rodriguez
  222. Not all computers are PCs by Curl+E · · Score: 1

    A computer doesn't necessarily have a monitor and a mouse and ther doesn't have to be somebody sitting right in front of it for it to be doing work. There are still some computers the size of a room - no they aren't exactly the same as the room size ones from the '70s.

    --
    Backups are for wimps. Real men post their data in comments and have slashdot mirror it
  223. My CS degree does not mean I can fix their PC by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 1

    Fixed broken Wintel boxes was not a course taught in CS classes at my university.

    If they get that basic concept right, I don't care what else they know about computers.

    1. Re:My CS degree does not mean I can fix their PC by jonfelder · · Score: 1

      The question is can you really not do it? Do you not know how to clean spyware off of a machine, or setup a firewall?

      I'm sorry, but in the general case a person with a CS degree can "fix broken wintel boxes". Granted they didn't teach that in college, but that doesn't make it less true.

      Now, you may not like doing it and that an entirely different matter.

  224. I want to use THE Internet, what is Firefox? by jeeperscats · · Score: 1

    Most of us on /. know that using alternatives like Firefox, Thunderbird, etc gives us a better chance of keeping out computers free from infection, but the average user (e.g. my dad) is already stuck when you mention their names. He hears Firefox and doesn't understand why it can be better than Internet Explorer because he thinks Internet Explorer IS the Internet. Most users have no concept of what an application is anyway, and when we throw in names that do not immediatly indicate the function of the application, the user is lost from the start.

  225. no, I'm just intentionally wasting your time by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    What's a book?

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:no, I'm just intentionally wasting your time by `Sean · · Score: 1

      "Ewww...hardcopy!" - Mr. The Plague

    2. Re:no, I'm just intentionally wasting your time by superiority · · Score: 1

      It's one of those paper movie things. Like the words on the back of a DVD case, only way, way more of them, and made out of trees.

  226. basics by sneugol · · Score: 1

    I think you should teach the *basics* of programming. This will teach people how computers really work, and give them some intuition about what they can do and what they can't. Preferably you should pick a programming tool that: 1) allows them to do something practical 2) is easy for someone who has no previous knowledge about programming. 3) is easily available Windows Batch files seem to be a good first try.

  227. Magic blue smoke by wetfeetl33t · · Score: 1

    People need to understand what the magic blue smoke is, where it is kept (inside computer components...duh), and why when it gets let out of the computer, the computer stops working.

    --
    Register the editry.
  228. Object-execution style by shummer_mc · · Score: 1

    For the average Joe, I'd say that they are unable to read at a very complex level (I read somewhere that 60+% of Americans are functionally illiterate-- of course I may have misunderstood that *hehe*).

    If I have one pet-peave it's that people don't understand size (is a mega-byte bigger than a kilobyte?). How big should an email attachment be? How fast is fast for an internet connection? I get those questions a lot. Actually, I try to make them understand that their 2.5MB email sent to their entire family (most of which is on dial-up) is uncool, but they don't get it-- ever.

    Good Luck

  229. More relevant every day... by Max+Threshold · · Score: 1

    How to resize a digital photo to an appropriate size for email or web use.

  230. users SHOULDN'T need to know anything by potus98 · · Score: 1

    Why is there a persistent expectation by people in "our" fields, that "users" should be required to understand computers? I put the key in my car, it goes. I put money in a vending machine, I get a coke. I press a button, the elevator arrives. I'm not expected to understand ignition timing, solonoid switches, or counter weights. Sometimes I can't believe the patience and persistance of non-geeks in their pursuit to learn and use computers. If it was half as difficult for me to use an elevator as it is for my Mom to install software, I would be in great shape from using the stairs!

    Most computers, operating systems, and software applications are HORRIBLY designed. Almost all of them require the user to adapt to the limitations of the design. The USER shouldn't have to adapt to the machine, it should be the MACHINE that adapts to the user! Yes, this is a very difficult approach. Yes, it's VERY difficult to anticipate what every possible user will try to do. But the pressure should be on US to invent things to make our lives more productive, NOT on the users to learn IT jargon.

    I should be able to take a picture with a digital camera, go home, set the camera NEAR my printer, wait a few seconds for the camera to ask me "Would you like to print today's pictures to your HP LaserPlane 9000?" and say "Yes please." All of the individual technologies for this scenario exist, it's just that product development teams don't tie it all togeather. And worst of all, Joe Public's expectations are so low that they accept the fact that they have to muck around with cables, install drivers on their PC, select the right paper that's currently loaded, etc. etc. etc...

    --
    This one gang kept wanting me to join cause I'm pretty good with a bo staff.
  231. "You aren't going to break it" by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 1

    I really wish people would learn this: You aren't going to break your computer.
    Attempting to fix a software problem when you don't know about computers can do just as much damage as fiddling with the radio when you don't know about cars.

    Teach people to try doing things. They will /fail/ to do those things. But they won't be any worse off.

    Yes, it's possible to make some things not work the way they worked before. It's POSSIBLE. But you actually have to try. Don't open up a random screen and type in random values into random fields. Do look for anything that looks mildly related to your problem and try fucking with those for a while.

    And then they'll call you can get you to fix them.

    And then one day they won't need to.

    --
    -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
    1. Re:"You aren't going to break it" by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1
      You need to meet my sister and her brother-in-law as well as a former friend of mine. My sister had a corrupted system and upon hearing that she lost her "valuable" bookmark file, I told her specifically not to touch the damn thing. Guess what, she did...and she let her brother-in-law get online and browse for a while...so when I got to the scene to recover data...there was nothing to recover...no bookmark file, none of her email, her Mozilla profile..all of it gone.

      Then there's my former friend who got a notice from Win95 that he was running out of hard disk space, so he dropped into DOS and started deleting files...randomly...system files. He had no install disk for 95 so the system was hosed.

      And I've known a few people who have done a "deltree c:\windows" which wouldn't mean too much these days except it was when the desktop was in the windows directory tree and, you guessed it, a bunch of valuable data was on their desktop.

      Now you might mean that they won't harm the HARDWARE if they do that but if they'd been working for a corporation and had done that..they'd be homeless.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    2. Re:"You aren't going to break it" by jonfelder · · Score: 1

      When was the last time you had to take your car in because it wouldn't start after and as a result of playing with the radio?

      For people with $500 computers, their documents are often times far more valuable then the machine itself. They can easily render those unrecoverable by "playing with the dials". Imagine a person that accidentally wipes out the only copy of their thesis...I guarantee you they would pay more than the value of their computer if there was some magic way to get it back.

  232. Already exists! by Tokin84 · · Score: 1

    while i agree that most of what you're saying should be put in a book, a company already has a comprehensive history of the internet and the technology used to create it at Ironbound Press. you should give it a quick glance just to make sure you don't double it ;)

    --
    Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. - Aldous Huxley
  233. There are 10 type of people in the world. by DroppedAtBirth · · Score: 1

    There are 10 type of people in the world. (yes taken from the thinkgeek shirt). 1. People who want to learn and use computers 2. People who want to just use computers. You can't help the people who don't want to learn something, they just want it to work magicly.

    --
    Rob
  234. basic howto on use, safety, and care by capn_nemo · · Score: 1
    First, I salute your effort, damn the naysayers and flamebaiters. I've taught various begginging computer classes, and there is definitely a lack in terms of a good book that teaches people what they minimally ought to know if they're going to use a computer.

    I suggest you cover four primary topics:

    - The physical computer, how it's put together, and *how to take care of it* ( even if this latter includes only "ground yourself," "blow out the dust!" and "check your connections".

    - What a computer does - the physical components, the OS, the applications, and the network.

    - How to use a computer. This is simply a "what can it do", how to find an application, find data, and where to store your information. It should *definitely* include a chapter on data preservation (i.e., store your data in a place where you can find it, and back it up on a separate media).

    - maintenance and care. this should reiterate how assess a problem (hardware, os, application, or data), steps to fix, cleaning, and backing up data. realistic figures for migrating to a new machine, and a chap. on data formats and portability would be useful.

    OK, now I can already hear the flame wars starting, and I know the above *seems* like a lot. But many people are mystified by what's going on behind the screen, and I think some basics, no matter how "wrong" they may seem to the keeps (analogies only go so far) would help a lot of users. If all they learn is "back up your data," that's a major victory. How many of us have spent time trying to help people solve problems that could have been skirted entirely if they had a backup copy?

    I'd suggest you consider two primary guiding factors in organization: 1) Think about it as a text book. Pick your level (is this grade school, high school, college? I think grade school, but you should identify some target audience). Also, it helps to realize that there might be attendant home work, study aides, etc, which could be on the internet, or in a classroom. 2) Ask yourself, what do I wish people knew before they bothered to call me?

    $.02

    neil

  235. The very first thing you need to do.... by T_Eclipse · · Score: 1

    Is make the users read the prerequsite book "Users that actually want to learn about computers" before your book "THE ULTIMATE ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME BOOK ABOUT THE COMPUTER FOR THE FRIGGIN COMPUTER RETARDED" How many techs out there try to explain to the users what is going with their computer but the users could care less? ....Ok, now everyone can put your hands down.

  236. explain the metaphors by lo_fye · · Score: 1

    All you need to do is explain the metaphors.
    It's called a "Desktop" because it's like the top of an actual physical desk, which is the work environment most of our parents are familiar with.
    Windows Explorer isn't named as well as the old "File Manager" from 3.1 was, but you can say that each Drive is really like a filing cabinet... and folders are like folders... and the internet is like a library with URL & IPs taking the place of Dewey Decimals.
    Take it back to the Old School, yo.

    --
    geeks are cats who dig a certain kind of cool
  237. Memory versus Hard drive / A bunch of other things by SpaceAdmiral · · Score: 1

    I think the first thing everyone should be taught is that memory is not the same as hard disk space. My mom once received an insufficient-memory error in an application. . . so she began uninstalling programs and deleting her old emails.

    Also, I notice that some people have no idea how email works. Someone once tried to send my mom a file that was too big for her ISP mail account (so it was bounced back to the sender). . . my mom's solution was to delete old emails in Outlook to make more space. I once knew someone who refused to reboot their computer, because Outlook wouldn't be able to receive their messages while it wasn't running and she didn't want to miss any.

    And someone should explain to the world what cookies are. A lot of people seem to believe that every cookie is a malicious spying tool.

    Wow. . . I'm a grumpy old man.

  238. At least one such book already exists... by snark23 · · Score: 1


    Search Amazon for "Fluency with Information Technology : Skills, Concepts, and Capabilities" by Lawrence Snyder.

  239. It's called a social virus for a reason... by MufasaZX · · Score: 1

    ...biggest thing that gets me is how every time I talk about email viruses my users say 'I don't get viruses because I don't open attachments from people I don't know'. ARG! If when the virus infects you it goes out to your whole address book, by DEFINITION you'll often get it originally from somebody you know!

  240. Body Parts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've found the best way to explain what the parts of a computer do, is to relate them to body parts.
    ie... the stomach is the harddrive, the ram is your mouth (that chews up data), cpu is the brain, etc.

  241. start with real basics by the+grace+of+R'hllor · · Score: 1

    * What is a computer? (Hardware: monitor, computer-case, keyboard, mouse, printer, etc. Software: Operating system, programs you can use, the Internet)
    * How do these components work? (shows you a "user interface", contains the actual computer, allows you to type in text and commands, let's you move the cursor around)
    * Explain the terms just used (What is a user-interface?, what's in a computer?, What's a cursor?) Do not expect terms to be obvious.

    What you want is for people to know the use of a harddrive, of system memory, *cards (sound, network, graphics, etc), of various drives, of the keyboard (shortcuts!) and of the mouse. Explain it in terms of responsibility: the monitor shows you a 'user interface'. Graphics cards are used by the computer to show a user interface; some cards are very good at showing graphics intensive games, so the card can usually be replaces. The mouse makes the cursor move around, and is used to click on things (explain clicking!). Etcetera.

    All in all, keep it very basic. Look at a computer as a user would, and look where questions might arise. Answer those questions while pointing to components they can look at, or by having them do stuff with the computer. Include pictures, so that if they're brave enough to open the side of the case, they can see the DIMMs and processor and harddrives and such.

    Explain the basic uses of Macintosh and/or Windows. Explaining concurrent tasks is important. Point them to a Knoppix CD, assuring them their computer will be safe. But keep the focus on Windows-only or Windows and Macintosh, since that is what they will be using anyway.

    Point out that other software than the defaults exist, and can be used just as well. Explain why the defaults exist. Point them to Firefox (PLEASE! I do tech support. Spyware kills my soul.) Explain the use of the most common programs in program-independant ways.

  242. The internet by Traa · · Score: 1

    When teaching someone about the internet, make sure to start with the big picture. Provide simple comparisons of scale. For example: "Everything that Shakespeare ever wrote will fit on a few floppy disks"[*] and "The amount of new information appearing on the internet every single day will fit on a stack of floppy disks that is as high as the Empire state building"[**].

    I would be very interested in a nice catchy explanation as to the types of information that can be found on the internet. Something along the lines of "There is very little control over who offers what type of information on the internet. It ranges from the latest images by NASA from space probes of the outer reaches of existence all the way to minute to minute gossip from Gina, a 16 year old blond girl experimenting with her sexuality, who in real life is a 41 year old bored and frustrated computer nerd living in his parents basement". Yeah, I know...I'm looking for something better then that.

    [*] read that somewhere 'on the internet', can't remember where :-)
    [**] made that up entirely

  243. Baloney - computers are commodity items. by MikeLip · · Score: 1

    Do you have to be a mechanic to own a car? Darn few of us are, and we manage to drive 'em OK. I know there is still an elitist mentality out there (I'm guilty of it myself), but who here recalls the days when we the geeks thought that EVERYBODY should have access to computers? Anyone? The '70s were wonderful time, and this magical box would soon be ubiquitous. Now that it is and everyone who has a few nickles to rub together *does* have access to computers - or, more to the point, the internet - some folks are cranky. Granted there is damn little common courtesy out there, and a lot of ignorance, but the industry brought that on itself by making it look as though the 'net and computers were mature tech, usable by anyone. We know that''s not true, but truth doesn't sell product. What is needed is a basic book - there aren't many out there for the layman that brings everything together. I'm not sure that it will sell, but the idea is right. Writing it so granny can understand it is going to be a trick. Good luck - I want a signed copy!

  244. Wikipedia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I personally could not agree more on the wikipedia thing. That random button is soo nice. You either read some boring statistic about a small town in rural nowhere, or get a stub about a person you have never heard of. And all the while you are still happy to click for another round, or think up a way to discredit this unknown person that the other wikipedians would not notice. Wikipedia is fun!

    1. Re:Wikipedia by name773 · · Score: 1

      personally i like to read through on light sources... the related article links are amazing

  245. Only Three Things by GmAz · · Score: 2, Insightful
    1) I wish people would learn how to backup files to CD/DVD/Thumbdrive/External Hard Drive...whatever. If you want to keep it and never lose it, then back it up.

    2) How to use a restore disk or make one. All manufactures (HP, Dell, Compaq, Gateway, etc) either include restore disks, have a partition on the hard drive to restore your computer or give you blank CDs/DVDs to create your own restore disks. DO THIS! Then when the computer breaks, save yourself some money and try to use the restore disk before paying to have your computer fixed (a.k.a. the computer tech using your restore disk).

    3) Realize that you cannot physically break your computer unless you physically abuse it, pour water in it while its running, or something of the likes. If your software stops working, re-install it or look at #2; use a your restore disk and make sure you are following #1 and keep your important stuff backed up!

    Then again, if people followed the above 'rules' then I wouldn't be able to make money off them. But they should still learn it!

    --
    Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
  246. Hard Drives and Memory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The most common statement that I hear from users is "My memory must be full" or "I'm out of memory". What they really mean is Hard Disk space. It seems like No one outside the IT community understands the simply difference between Hard Disk and Memory...

  247. Main problem by infolib · · Score: 1
    It seems to me that there aren't very many good books out there that explain to the layman what is really going on with computers.

    Perhaps that just goes to show there's no market.

    Don't get me wrong, I wish there was, but I'm a bit skeptical about it.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  248. What Should People Understand About Computers? by amightywind · · Score: 0

    Pronounce GNU with a hard G to avoid horrible confusion.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
  249. Software Layers by twbecker · · Score: 1

    I'd say that you should stress how and why software on a computer is made up of layers. That there is a program called a driver that controls the hardware directly, which is controlled by an Operating System, which does work on behalf of an application, which does real work. Layering is obviously important for security and it also helps to describe how a computer gets things done. It just starts with very simple tools and builds increasingly complex tools on top of them.

    --
    "The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
  250. A sense of adventure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You need to teach them that the computer isn't a fragile box that'll break with the slightest wrong click while at the same time not to mess with the registry, rename file extensions, etc. You need to give them the desire and the courage to figure things out on their own, otherwise they'll never progress beyond "casual user".

  251. Already done by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

    Ordering is a bit tricky, but I mostly started learning from The Secret Guide to Computers (somewhere around the 12th or 15th edition), and I think it was pretty good.

  252. Important but easily overlooked by Alaska+Jack · · Score: 1

    The fact that there are *two* places a computer can store information -- the hard drive ("Like an LP -- data is physically written on it. It's slow but can hold a lot, and the data won't disappear if the the computer is unplugged") and the RAM ("It's where the computer stores stuff that you are actually working on at that moment -- Fast, but is essentially just a bunch of electrons zipping around. If your computer is unplugged, it's gone.)

    It's important to actually understanding how to use your computer (Save vs Save As, etc), and it's one of those things that makes perfect sense to a power user, but a newbie has no clue about.

          - AJ

  253. An even mor terrifying example by elhaf · · Score: 4, Funny

    Conversation from last week:
    Me: Ok, now that I've installed your first DVD player and shown you the play and stop buttons, let me explain the menu.
    My Mother-in-law: No, I really don't need to know about that.
    Me: Oh, it's simple, you just move these arrows around, and you can select the scene you want to jump to, and so on.
    M-I-L: No, I think that will just confuse me.
    Me (remembering that she didn't know how to work the thermostat after her husband died): Yeah, OK, maybe all you need to know is the controls that work like the VCR: fast forward, rewind, play,...
    M-I-L: Which, frankly, I never really understood...

    --
    Six score characters.
    Brevity being wit's soul
    I have enough space.
  254. what people should really understand about.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...computers. is that they are our overlord masters ;) http://www.imdb.com/Title?0133093
    I, for one welcome our new computer overlords.

  255. That information is not "stuff" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think this problem is compounded by "conventional" computer GUIs somewhat. Information is _copied_ from place to place. The primitive operation is "copy", not "move". To "move", you copy+erase. almost all the problems I've seen with people using computers stem from them misconceptualising a "file" in a computer as some sort of physical thing.

    1. Re:That information is not "stuff" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      almost all the problems I've seen with people using computers

      N.B. I mean problems that creep in with how they use a computer, where the computer is functioning entirely normally, just not how they think it does; not problems people have using a computer that is malfunctioning/running-windows.

  256. Same old same old by clawhound · · Score: 2, Informative
    I do user support for a living. Take some time and talk to good user support people. These people must explain computers stuff every day to the layman. The good ones are very good at it. Take the opinion of the more technical end of computers with a grain of salt: their career is not about explaining things to people every day, and so many of their ideas are just plain wrong. (I don't do C++ every day. I expect that I know less that you do. I explain computers to laymen every day. I expect you to know less that I do. No offense.) The key to a good explaination is a good analogy. If you can find that, your task is far easier.

    "Your hard drive is a mix between a record player and a tape player. It has an arm that moves around the record, but all the tracks are magnetic rather than little grooves in the record."

    Second, a pictures is worth a thousand words. Showing the insides of a hard drive is far more effective than explaining it.

    Third, keep your topics short and clear. Harried users had long, dense text. They get frustrated and stop reading. That's bad. Treat your book as software. Test it against users as you write it. Find out what works and what doesn't. Your touchstone is EFFECTIVENESS. Everything that you do in this project must be about end-user effectiveness.

  257. Learn what's the hard drive and whats not. by RIP · · Score: 1

    I can't tell you how many times someone pointed at the screen saying: "That's the computer"
    And then pointing at the case (whereever it might be positioned): "This is the harddrive"

    They need to know what's what.. =)

    Maybe also some kind of guidelines for how to cooperate well when you're being helped by support/child/friend etc...maybe we all want it in different ways though ;)

    --
    /* We dance to the sounds of sirens and we watch genocide to relax*/
  258. Tell them not to fear computers by kuriharu · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I can't tell you how many people say they're "afraid" of computers. They don't want to try too many things since they're afraid of breaking something. There is the possibility they might delete system files, but that's become increasingly rare. I'd tell people not to be intimated by what they don't understand on their own computers, then show them how to find answers on their own.

    Bottom line is most people only use computers for a narrow, limited purpose. The rest start investigating on their own.

    1. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by pclminion · · Score: 1
      I can't tell you how many people say they're "afraid" of computers. They don't want to try too many things since they're afraid of breaking something. There is the possibility they might delete system files, but that's become increasingly rare. I'd tell people not to be intimated by what they don't understand on their own computers, then show them how to find answers on their own.

      The following is funny, but totally serious.

      Here's what you do. It's like a little LAN party, but it's called a "Computer Destruction Party." Set up about 10 computers on a few desks. Each has a fresh install of XP, updated to all the latest. Invite ten of your parents, parents' friends, etc. People who feel insecure with computers. Tell them that the goal here, is to be the first person to render a computer totally unusable and unbootable. The winner receives some humorous item. The only rule is, you cannot physically smash or fry the computer with electricity.

      To be even cuter, sign a little waver with each guest that nobody will be held at fault for any damage to the computers.

      When you turn "Computer Destruction" into the GOAL, instead of something to be avoided, people become interested and their innate tendencies to destruction are activated. At this point, they will discover just how difficult it really is to seriously fuck up a system irretrievably.

      For the final stroke, flash the machines (using Ghost or some equivalent) back to their initial states as the party is winding down. This'll demonstrate that try though they might, the users simply CAN'T do irreversible damage to their system.

    2. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by kuriharu · · Score: 1

      That is an awesome idea!! You're right, it would help people get over their fear and it would be fun in the process. I may have to actually set something like that up.

    3. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pretty good idea.

    4. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by SamSim · · Score: 1

      But on the other hand, the number of things which can go wrong if they don't know what they're doing and they begin surfing the internet using MSIE and no firewall and no virus checker is pretty immense. Aren't they somewhat justified in this fear?

    5. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by kuriharu · · Score: 1
      But on the other hand, the number of things which can go wrong if they don't know what they're doing and they begin surfing the internet using MSIE and no firewall and no virus checker is pretty immense. Aren't they somewhat justified in this fear?


      Two things:

      1. That would be someone else breaking their computer, not them, technically.
      2. Most people who are fearful of computers are completely unaware of the (very real) threats you pose.


      My main point, though, is that there are people who literally recoil their hands away from a mouse thinking they're going to blow up the world. People with this kind of fear tend to not learn about computers because "they're just too scary" or they'll never understand "something that complex". The idea would be to get them to stop fearing computers and try using them.


      Some people have a phobia of dogs. Some dogs can be rabid and attack for no reason, others can be very affectionate. Just as I'd try to convice a canine-phobe the right way to approach a dog I think people afraid of computers can be convinced not to be terrified of their keyboards.

    6. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      I'd be curious about the age of these people who are "afraid" of computers.

      Back in the mid-late 80s, I happened to bump into one of my old elementary school teachers and he was chatting about how they were adding computers to the classroom (when I was there, back in the '70s, we had a computer terminal hooked to the local college's mainframe). Because the teacher remembered how much I used the computer back in elementary school, he suggested I come in and see what they were doing, chat with some teachers, maybe come up with some ideas.

      I showed up and chatted with a bunch of teachers in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. They all said the same thing. They wanted to make sure that kids weren't "afraid" of the computer. I commented that you don't need to tell them this--elementary school kids aren't afraid of anything. Heck, I used to hang upside down from steel jungle gyms over hard-packed ground! One of the fun things to do on the playground was to jump off the swings when they were as high as possible (and land, again, on the ground--none of the soft sand like these pansy kids today have! :^) You really think a kid is going to be afraid of a little beige box?

      It was the teachers who were "afraid" of the computer. As I said, the teachers grew up in a time when computers were gigantic things and you had to have a 180 IQ just to be in the same room with them. But, again, most of their fears came from the fact that they had these computers thrust upon them without really any idea about how to use it. I was talking to the principal and I suggested having the teachers accomplish something with the computer and then let them go from there. Have the teacher write a story, draw a picture, whatever. Get appropriate software for the teachers to experiment with before you let the kids at it. Once the teachers are comfortable, there'll be less of the "We need to teach you to not fear the computer" and more of "Here's some interesting stuff you can learn with the computer's help."

    7. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I agree 100%. All new users fears are about breaking this expensive machine. What they need is a magic disk that puts the magic box back together.

      Try convincing Dell and other manufacturers that more than one partition is a good idea - that you may want to separate programs and data....

      If you could tell a user 'put this disk in and reboot and everything will be ok again' ( at least, like it was yesterday ) they would be much happier to mess around and find things out for themselves.

      So, ok, chapter 1 fdisk and partitioning your drive....

    8. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by milimetric · · Score: 1

      Exactly!

      To expand on that. You can't teach someone what they NEED to know about computers. Because different people need different things. Instead, try to teach people some basics of the computer... how to set it up, how to protect your files. And teach them how to make sure nothing "bad" happens to them. Like why clicking on email attachments or preview panes are bad. This is not because you're security minded, like the parent says, you want to disspell that irrational fear. Most of the users I talk to are "afraid I'm going to break it". So if you just teach them how to not break it or have other people break into it, that sense of security should foster what humans are best at: figuring things out. With security behind them, they'll be able to just mess around and do whatever they want. I think the best thing to start from would be to teach them how to back up. Once they've got this down, tell them they can do ANYTHING to their computer and just restore it from the backup and everything's fine. DeepFreeze is a great tool for this.

      Good luck!

    9. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by Cryshal · · Score: 1

      There were interesting comments here. Don't automatically think we elders are so uninformed. I'm 75 and know many other elders online who are also very knowledgeable. I know my way around computers and also play MMORPGs with all ages and don't miss a beat. I don't tell my age, no need to. I amaze my computer savvy sons who work in the business.

    10. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by paran0rmal · · Score: 1

      There's a number of posts to this tune, so why are people so afraid of their computers? People are obviously scared that they'll do something that will delete their valuable data, so perhaps the first thing to cover should be (1) where to find your data, (2) how to back up it up, and (3) how to get it back again.

      The rest of the book can then really be about anything anyone here has mentioned, since the reader won't be scared to try it out for himself anymore.

    11. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by xdmp · · Score: 1

      I can tell from my experience what people fear computers when they don't understand them (the same applies to many other things). You need to teach them first, and fear will be gone then.

    12. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by kuriharu · · Score: 1
      I'd be curious about the age of these people who are "afraid" of computers.


      I'm working with someone right now who's in her thirties. Any kind of description on how to do something gets her to weasel out saying "I don't know how to do that". I still know a lot of people who are either intimated (maybe a better word than 'scared') or just plain indifferent.



      I showed up and chatted with a bunch of teachers in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. They all said the same thing. They wanted to make sure that kids weren't "afraid" of the computer. I commented that you don't need to tell them this--elementary school kids aren't afraid of anything.


      Good point. I figured this book was aimed at adults who still didn't know much about computing.

    13. Re:Tell them not to fear computers by kuriharu · · Score: 1
      Don't automatically think we elders are so uninformed. I'm 75 and know many other elders online who are also very knowledgeable. I know my way around computers and also play MMORPGs with all ages and don't miss a beat. I don't tell my age, no need to. I amaze my computer savvy sons who work in the business.

      Right on! I do know quite a few people that are at least 20+ years my senior and are very savvy.

  259. Harvard Computer Science E1 by The+Dr+No · · Score: 1

    I have been listening to the Computer Science E-1 Harvard podcast. It does a pretty good job of building up from 0 to medium understanding without getting too complex. The beginning is a little bit slow if you know anything about how computers work, but it does a good job of filling in some of the gaps. I have not finished the series yet, so I am not sure how far it goes, but so far I can imagine my mother/grandmother understanding what is going on without too much difficulty. A book based along these same lines would probably work well. http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~cscie1/?page=podcast&t ype=static

  260. Backups. by MrLogic17 · · Score: 1

    If it's made of matter, it will break. Dubbly so for moving parts.

    Make backups.

  261. forget it by cobbaut · · Score: 0, Redundant

    People should know nothing about computers,
    just like most know nothing about a phone/TV/car/radio/battery etc...

    The computer should work and be secure by design.

    But i do admire the intend to write a book for 'the people'.
    (Make sure they know that a virus is just another application,
    written in a programminglanguage by a real person.)

    cheers,
    pol :)

    --
    European Linux user, living in Antwerp
  262. ...and that attitude... by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    ...makes people who _are_ otherwise good communicators respond with variations of "RTFM--how the hell do you think *I* learned how to do this?" You assume and treat them like arrogant, yet ignorant, people who can't communicate, yet you insist on asking them questions about things you admittedly don't understand but take for granted that they do--and scoff at anything short of exhaustive, encyclopedic knowledge as evidence of incompetence, no matter how trivial your query--well, suffice it to say, you get what you give, sweetheart.

    1. Re:...and that attitude... by pclminion · · Score: 1
      You assume and treat them like arrogant, yet ignorant, people who can't communicate, yet you insist on asking them questions about things you admittedly don't understand but take for granted that they do--and scoff at anything short of exhaustive, encyclopedic knowledge as evidence of incompetence, no matter how trivial your query--well, suffice it to say, you get what you give, sweetheart.

      I have no idea if you're trying to respond to me or not (it looks like it, but you're at the wrong thread level). I'm assuming you are.

      First, I was using a literary "you" here. If we break people down into the savvy vs. non-savvy classes, I fall in the first group. I write from the second group because I have a certain level of empathy.

      You seem upset at my implication that most geeks are not good communicators. Wake up. Most PEOPLE are not good communicators. Most problems between people are due to communication failure. This does not imply that either party necessarily lacks intelligence (they do lack a certain TYPE of intelligence...)

      There are probably a million developers just on the North American continent. A large number of these are highly skilled, indeed. Very few are competent to write a book, or even explain simple programming concepts.

      It takes a special sort of person to be able to explain a concept in different ways to different people -- or in the context of a book, to take a sufficient number of angles on it that the majority of the readership will understand. Such a person is usually called a "teacher." Most of us aren't like this, a few of us are. There's nothing wrong with not having that particular talent, what IS wrong is treating everybody else like it's THEIR problem when in fact it is yours.

      Frustrated and pissy because your users are assholes? Maybe they're assholes because you always act frustrated and pissed. Maybe it's a vicious circle and BOTH of you are at fault.

    2. Re:...and that attitude... by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

      I was using the "literary" you as well and that was precisely my point. Thank you for so effectively illustrating it AGAIN.

  263. Think about the average user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think people need to know about things that will help their computer experience go more smoothly, or will make things easier for them or faster, or just more fun even. All too often, the only thing someone knows how to use is Office, and then they ask how to do something encredibly simple, that anyone who would spend some time messing around would figure out on there own before long, but people don't know how to do simple things like this. I think people need to be educated a little on just general useage stuff, how to customize some things to your liking, make things easier or faster, software or platform recomendations, maybe a collection of checklists a user should go through if they're having a problem with a certain type of thing (not application or platform specific really if possible). I know a ton of people who think you have to direct connect on AIM to send a file or picture, and thats A: a security risk, and B: has problems with other clients. Simple things like that people need to know how to do, or they need to be kindof tought how to better fish for what theyre looking for.

  264. Not a Thing by Ranger · · Score: 1

    I worked in a call center supporting customers who purchased extended warranties for various consumer electronics: printers, computers, digital cameras, scanners, etc. I came to the conclusion is that the only thing people should know about computers is they are too stupid to own one. Most of the time I punished the end users by replacing their printer with a crappy refurb or making them reinstall their OS. Though, I was one of the few techs who actually told the customer they'd lose all their data.

    It would be nice if retailers put up a sign that read You must be this smart to buy a computer. It would have a picture of a geek complete with pocket protector and thick glasses. Oh and he'd be holding a sliderule.

    When I was done with the call most of the time I'd notate their account with PEBKAC (problem exists between keyboard and chair).

    --
    "You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
  265. Write it for you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More like..

    "i have an idea for the book, but can you /.'ers please provide the content?" :P

  266. There is no try by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

    Don't waste your time. Before all you mods flame me down as a troll, hear me out. What's your target audience? The people who need it fall into two group - those who can't understand, and those who refuse to. Your mother falls into the former - the benefit of knowing the difference between a firewall and a hub is outweighed by the cost of learning something completely alien. The latter group is that obnoxious guy you overhear at the counter of your local CompUSA, blithering on about how you HAVE to have a 3.4 GHz P4 with hyperthreading, else you're obsolete. You can talk to him until you are blue in the face, but he knows better because he read something somewhere.
    Lastly, if you CAN attract people like your mother, you'll be doing a disservice to your fellow geeks - you'll basically have to refer to things like switches as "splitters" and operating systems as "Windows" - VASTLY oversimplifying things. This results in disbelief and outrage when broken things start costing real money - in effect, you'll be turning people from group 1 into the people in group 2.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  267. Books are a terrible format by slashp0t · · Score: 1

    Books are a terrible format. But if so follow the steps to success below: 1) Avoid step by step instructions - remember that crick in your neck you get from looking down at a book and then at the computer screen, over and over again. That's why that crazy computer doctor and his CD is probably a better answer to learning computer than your book. 2) Advocate that the computer doctor is a qwack. 3) Have your friends give you a great product review on Amazon, because 10-1, people will think your book sucks no matter how hard you work on it. 4) Do not start from square one. Start with emailing somebody a message with an attachment in a different language. Most people who don't understand computers in the US have english as their second language and want to communicate with their relatives across seas, and the rest of their family members refuse to show them how to use a computer. Believe me, you can write a whole book on it, and I think that's good enough for Newbies. 5) Write the book in a different language, for the same reason as above. 6) Don't refer to other chapters. (Please refer to chapter 8 - noone goes here) 7) Use a character, write in the first-person illustrating the mental process, and somehow throw some adventure and sex into the narration. 8) Crack a non-computer joke, every 5 lines. 9) Do not give credit to anyone except those who helped you in the book. 10) No political commentary, but George Bush is a liar. 11) No business political commentary, who gives a hoot about sun, microsoft, google, I just want to send email damn it. 12) Proof-read the book, by a 55 year old poor immigrant. If he can understand it, you have succeeded.

  268. Re: Basic File Management by thc69 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Chapter 4: Understanding the file system.

    A "file" is data or a document of some sort. It may be letter, a photo, a song, a video, a shopping list, a piece of a program, a piece of the operating system, a piece of adware, an insurance form, a contract, or whatever. A "folder" is a container that can contain many files, can contain folders, and can be found in a folder.

    A file has a "location" in the file system. When you save it, if you know it's location, you have lots of power. For example, if you save a file in Microsoft Word, and want to start using Open Office, you simply need to know the location of the file. If you download your music in iTunes, and want to listen to it in MusicMatch Jukebox, you must merely know it's location. If you don't know the location of your file, your geek won't be able to find it either, so don't bother him until you know.

    You describe the location of a file by listing the folder where the file can be found, the folder in which that folder can be found, ad nauseum, with the "backslash" character ("\") in between, and the drive letter followed by a colon before, so a location looks like d:\outerfolder\middlefolder\middlefolder\innerfold er\filename.ext. (Maybe explain file extensions, the ability of Windows to hide the file extension from the user, and why they might want to disable that feature and look at those extensions themselves before double-clicking a file).

    You have my permission to use any or all of that, verbatim or modified, and take credit for it as your own.

    My mother cannot grasp the concept of folders. She puts every document relating to one theme in a single file; she prints out whatever pages of that file matter for a single document. It's a terrible system.

    No non-geek understands file locations. Even semi-geeks may only partially understand; I can think of two or three people who know where their MS Word files are, but don't even understand that eMule or iTunes keeps their music in files located in the filesystem.

    On a separate topic, maybe the concept of email delivery would be useful (user clicks "send", his computer attempts to deliver mail to server [post office analogy]; then server attempts to deliver to destination server [post office analogy again]; then receiving user MUST connect to server [post office analogy again] to retrieve their mail). Oh, and the difference between a web address and an email address (the "@" signifies a person's name "at" a place, while a web address is just a place).

    --
    Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
  269. pics by Haszak · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sorry if this is redundant, but the best way to go is big, close-up pictures of things. Then at least they'll finally know what they've been talking about. Also compare computers to humans, like short term memory=RAM, etc.

    --
    find me at haszak.org
  270. Oh really, let me challenge your assumption by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1
    You do not need to know much about how a car works to be able to drive it. So what would you consider essential information?
    • The controls? Obvious really but how much? Should I know WHY I can't turn the wheel as fast at speed as when I am stationary? Perhaps knowing something about wheels would stop some damn drivers at our company from turning the fucking wheels of our truck (a real one) when stationary. Argh, personal rant, sorry about that.
    • The principles of friction? Kinda handy to know that you can loose traction, daily people seem to forget this and die.
    • Fluid under pressure? Or whatever causes aqua plaining, an equally effective killer.
    • Perhaps exactly what is used for fuel? Might stop some people from submerging their cars during floods because they apprentlyn think engines don't need air.
    • How about lubrication? Might stop people from dunking their brakes and then being suprised they don't work as well anymore.

    To be able to operate a car well you really need to know an awfull lot of stuff. Oh sure not in exact detail just as I don't need to know wether my PC is big endian or little endian I do not need to know the exact air to gas mixture in my engine. Just that it needs air and a lot of it.

    I use the word "operate" because there is a huge difference between operating a car and just driving it. To make use of your car driving is enoug. To continue to make full use of your car you need to do more. You need to be able to take car of it, to meet its demands.

    So with computers. Anyone can surf and browse and run apps and install crap. It is when they have to do so for more then 1 day that the problems emerge. What people need to know is that a computer needs to be taken care of in the same way as you take care of a car.

    How you teach people this. I be damned if I know. About 3 weaks ago some dipshit fueled a van (small truck?) with diesel because trucks run on diesels don't they. Well not this one dipshit and it says so on the fucking fuel opening.

    Is this the same behavior that leads to the installation of spyware? Perhaps it was the reason about 3 years ago a developer who took over from me at a job deciced that in order to be able to remotely connect to the database the easiest option was to disable the hardware firewall completly.

    Frankly I don't bother anymore with trying to explain things to people. I feel like a doctor telling a person coughing up his lungs in chuncks that he might want to cut back on smoking. Except I am not doctor and I don't remember taking an oath.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Oh really, let me challenge your assumption by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

      "It's like a car, I just wanna drive it, not know how to work on it." has been said to me more than once regarding computer use by clients/customers. I've learned to say "OK", and "Here is your bill." Just fine by me. They'll 'drive' their computer over a cliff, and call me to get it fixed again. More for me. Ka-Ching!

  271. Support issue or common knowledge? by engagebot · · Score: 1

    My problem as an IT guy is this: There's a fine line between something thats a real tech support issue, and something thats a matter of you having a vague idea of what you're doing.

    Not saying that anybody who touches a mouse ought to be a geek by our standards. What I AM saying is that if you're in a somewhat high position working in an office, you should know how to print.

    It takes a certain (small) amount of knowledge/skill to even consider yourself 'qualified' for a job. Correct? Well, if you work in an office, you should understand that you click File -> Print to print a document. That's not me having unreasonable expectations of your knowledge of the inner workings of your PC. That's you not being totally useless.

    --
    Han shot first.
  272. Must have! by anonymous_wombat · · Score: 1

    It's not a cup holder, it's a CD player.

  273. Hardest Question by XMilkProject · · Score: 1

    Seems to me the hardest question to ask yourself, for this book, is what aspects of software you will talk about.

    For instance, will the book be operating system specific? Or will it be generic enough (or hardware oriented) so as to apply to most any consumer computer (mac/windows).

    Personally I would avoid talking about any software in specifics, but describing what a hard drive is and how it holds your files (file cabinet analogy please?)

    --
    Big ones, small ones, some as big as yer 'ead!
    Give 'em a twist, a flick o' the wrist...
  274. This is the wrong approach by raddan · · Score: 1
    I consider this an engineering problem. Take a car, for instance. People don't need to know how they work. They just need to know how to operate the standard controls.

    Computers should be the same, IMHO. Sure, something is lost when you design the interface for the lowest common denominator. But you get a huge gain-- people can DO something with their computer! If a problem comes up, bring it to a technician. If you're a power user, don't mourn the loss of flexibility in the OS-- use a more powerful OS. I really learned what I was missing when I was introduced to UNIX in college. Is UNIX for everybody? Definitely not.

    Computer makers/software designers have a long way to go to be on par with automobile designers. Computers are vastly more complex, so I don't blame them for taking so long to get there. But we need SIMPLE and RELIABLE. That's it. At work the four main applications are 1) email, 2) word processing, 3) spreadsheets, and 4) the web. Users at home need essentially the same thing. With the exception of the web, have our needs changed that much in the last 20 years? We need a toasterized version of the PC that can do these things. Gaming consoles are a great example of this principle in action: a specialized computer for games.

    When someone wants to look under the hood, then they can go for a general-purpose PC with a flexible OS. I would hate to see the general-purpose PC go away, but unfortunately, it's too complex for the vast majority of people out there.

    As for the book, forget it. People who care enough to learn about how a computer works, will. There are lots of great resources out there for beginners already.

  275. do not surf naked! by GnomeSkull · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think a chapter should focus on how to be safely connected to the Internet. Explain the importance of antivirus software and firewall, and what they do. Also explain that just having them installed does not mean they are functioning (virus definitions need updating, etc). I do a lot of fixing for people who have let their definitions lapse or the software has failed for some reason.

    And an explanation of email and viruses in general. Just because an email appears to be from some address you know, or even yourself, does not make it so. Once they understand that the system is inherently insecure, most people are more apt to be more careful with email attachments and check that antivirus software regularly.

    Of course, there is no substitute for reading and attempting to comprehend the messages your computer gives you. When their antivirus warns them that their definitions are out of date, they should not just ignore it and assume the computer will magically fix that for them. So I suppose another section could be devoted to explaining that a computer, like an automobile, needs regular maintenance in order to continue to run properly.

    If you can write a book that helps this kind of person, you will get hundreds of sales from me:
    User: "I can't change my password, something's wrong."
    Me: "Well what does the error message say?"
    User: "It says it can't change my password."
    Me: "But what does it SAY?"
    User: "Oh. It says 'Your new password must exceed 5 characters and be'... oh. I see. Never mind."
    "Glad I could help."

    People think whatever the error messages say are for trained computer people only, not them. Get that out of their heads and you win.

  276. She shouldn't need to! by Mikkeles · · Score: 1
    'My mother cannot go to the bookstore and pick up a book that will make her understand the strange language that we IT people speak, ....'

    At this point in the developement of consumer computers, she shouldn't need to understand IT speak anymore than she need understand Maxwell's equations to use a television. A book about the size and in the format (i.e. tasks and trouble-shooting) for that TV should be sufficient. Obviously, programming and advanced configuration would require more.

    --
    Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
  277. Memory and Storage by HalfOfOne · · Score: 1

    One question that I get a lot is "do I have enough memory to run x" (that's x as a variable, dingus) I've found a lot of users don't understand the distinction between available virtual memory and storage memory. They look at the size of the executable for WebShots and think that's how much memory it takes up. They then click "My Computer", hop over to their hard drive, and see that they have 80GB free. Wheee, I can load all the Anne Geddes screensavers I want, plus that little purple ape and so on and so on. As a side note, I really want an OS indicator for disk reads/writes so that my wife, mom, uncle, etc can tell at a glance where the bottleneck is on a system at any given moment. I've taught them how they can check the virtual memory and the processor utilization, but I got nothing for disk thrashing short of hoping they have a really loud HDD or a poorly-insulated case.

  278. What should people understand about computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Great idea if you can do it. My problem with helping users who have little or no understanding of computing or the cyberworld, is that they don't understand the consequence or value of what they have. Additionally, that it needs maintenance like your car does in order to continue functioning properly. Sample conversation

    User - My machine is too slow.

    Tech - You appear to have spyware on your machine.

    User - It didn't used to be this way. Why did IT let that in? Don't we have anti-virus stuff?

    Tech - Yes but this is different. It is not a virus and it won't be detected by that product.

    User - Why do I pay for antivirus if it doesn't work.

    Tech - You pay for AV because eit will stop most viruses but it is not 100%. First of all you have not updated it in quite a while. Second It is not a virus.

    User - Why can't it do it itself? I don't have time for this.

    Tech - It is a tool and you need to take care of the tools in order to have them function properly. You would not leave your lawnmower out in the rain/snow over the winter and then expect it to run properly. Same is true for the computer.

    User - Make it work the way I want it to.

    Tech - I can't.....

    You get my point. If the user could view it as a tool maybe they would take the time to learn how the tool functions. Maybe that is the approach you need to take. One of function versus instructional.

    Hope it helps.

  279. The PC is basically a complete waste of time by deadline · · Score: 1
    Non-computer people (and computer people) should understand that computers are machines. Used properly they should save time and money and augment the user. If a machine is wasting time because it breaks too often, is too hard to learn and use, easily jeopardizes your security and personal information, and just becomes a hassle, then complain loudly. Ask for you money back and remember just because it seems like a "complicated" device that does magical things, that is no excuse for it not to work as promised. Most people don't know how a car works, but would never tolerate cars that worked liked computers.

    If everyone has that kind of attitude, computers would be different. However, computers today are a "time sink" basically running broken software. Unless you are a specialist with adequate training, computers are a waste of most peoples time. Use a pencil and paper, calculator, and typewriter, it is more efficient. Sounds silly? How many times have you had to tell someone how do use a word processor? And how many copies did they print (waiting paper), before they got that hanging indent right (using spaces) only to find that when they change the font and the document falls apart. Need I continue...

    --
    HPC for Primates. Read Cluster Monkey
  280. A big drawing on the wall... by chivo243 · · Score: 1

    behind the computer, puffy cloud=internet, small insignifigant boxes=router/modem/firewall, then make a enlarged drawing of the PC, outlining the main compenents, hd, memory, processor, cd/dvd rom, free cell shortcut, floppy drive, on button(pc and monitor)...

    --
    Sig Hansen?
  281. two words by sick_nerd · · Score: 1

    I have but two words for you. ANY and KEY.

  282. Old vs new programs by sepelester · · Score: 1

    Just today I saw "50 brand new, free programs making your computer safer!" on a billboard. Maybe people should realise why an old program, yet still actively developed is preferable to a brand new program suffering from child disease, especially when regarding computer security.

  283. ARghhh... Plain old text versus HTML defaults by HalfOfOne · · Score: 1

    Sorry about the previous formatting, all the other forums I use have plain old text as the default entry method. Yes, I'm lazy, unobservant, and still complaining...welcome to Slashdot.

  284. Idiots guide to Computers... by slashdotmsiriv · · Score: 1
  285. I've already written a similar book by datamichael · · Score: 1

    I ran into a similar situation when my sister bought my 79 yr-old mother a Windows PC.

    Soooo, I wrote and published a book!

    "Computer Secrets I Taught My Mom" ISBN 0-9773105-0-7 Published by SmartGuy Press Jan. 2006. It's available now for US$18.00 from amazon.com, bn.com, B&M retailers as well as directly from www.smartguypress.com.

    It's selling great and my Mom is quite the computer enthusiast these days.

    The book covers common fundamentals of PC use, and goes on to talk about security, OpenSource software, OpenOffice, with extensive sections on installing Firefox and Zonealarm.

    What really irked me about almost every PC book I looked at for my Mom is that they fail to properly explain that understanding a PC is really all about files; what is a file, different types of files, and most importantly, how files are organized. I wrote extensively on understanding the hierachical structure and provided several tutorials.

    Take care,
    Michael Shannon
    Author "Computer Secrets I Taught My Mom

    --
    Author "Computer Secrets I Taught My Mom"
  286. Feynman's Lectures on Computation by yosemitesammy · · Score: 1

    this is a good reference... Feynman's Lectures on Computation Seriously.... several things about computer science became clearer once I had read part of it...

  287. What I would like users to know and a couple tips. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First is to let them know that all those little icon thingies in the task bar (blue bar at the bottom of the screen) are actually running programs eating up computing resources (memory, processor, and etc...) This basically slows down the computer.

    Second (tied to the first) is to teach them about msconfig. You know start - run - msconfig. Teach them that certain pages in there are never to be touched ( I usually tell them to only mess with the first tab to choose selective start up, and choose the start up tab (to get rid of any oddball things in there as well).

    Third would be to teach them about the three finger salute to get to the task manager and choosing which programs to end task on. If Win XP then they can't shut down critical system processes (and it will tell them so), so don't be afraid when shutting down these items. I usually have them do this if the PC is running slow to ensure it isn't simply an AV, or other program that is eating up all the resources.

    I know I go into some more detail than is needed, but that is why you are writing the book right! To identify where to draw the line. Also I used to be really good at putting things in laymans terms when I first started getting deep into IT. Now I have trouble doing that (advanced too far, so I can explain to a newb IT guy, but not a layman any more with out some difficulty). It might be beneficial if you find some one that is just starting out in IT to review the content in your book (or DVD). I would have that person review it, and a few laymen as well. Your just starting out IT guy may have some insight on how to relay the information to the laymen.

    I also find it is use full to tell users what not to do more often than it is to tell them what to do. Perhaps you should devote a whole chapter that one. Things like don't mess with the registry, don't mess with other tabs in msconfig, don't go deleting files in the windows directory, and so on.

  288. Explain the file system! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The biggest problem I see from most users is that they have absolutely zero understanding of the file system. They don't understand what a file is, let alone where it is on their hard drive. They don't understand folders or paths. They just don't get files *at all*.

  289. Very, very difficult task by drouse · · Score: 1

    One problem is that most people don't care what is going on inside the box.

    No one ever asks me, 'how does the ethernet card talk to the cable box?' They ask me 'why is the Internet down?' History of the Internet and hard drive internals are not going to be what the average layman wants to hear.

    A book that would really be interesting to your target audience should black box the inside of the computer and focus on tasks and troubleshooting based on what they will see on the screen. And yes, they are going to be interested in tedious tasks you will hate to have to explain like setting up a group entry in their email program, setting up an EBay account, etc.

    Then you have your second problem -- lack of standardization. Even just looking at Windows there are enough variations on email programs (Outlook Express, a couple of variations on Outlook, GMail, etc.) that no one set of instructions will do.

    And that leads us to the third problem -- you will be out of date by the time the book prints. By the time the book is out there will be a new EBay, Google, and Outlook.

    My advice, write your book after Moore's law runs out and computers become as standardized as rotary telephones. If those two events ever happen.

    But I do wish you luck.

    --
    -- I browse at +5 with stripped sigs ... Ha! Ha!
  290. Rule nr 1 by VagaStorm · · Score: 1

    Rule number 1 is: You can make it as simle as you'd like. If it is thik, most mundanes will stear clear of it.

  291. Stupid question, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is a book?

  292. Please! by hurfy · · Score: 1

    Someone please tell people how to turn off the computer when windows forgets how!

    hehe, pet peeve needed petting ;)

    Good idea but sounds intimidating, good luck :)

  293. Report problems by johnbeat · · Score: 1

    My biggest wish is that people would actually report problems when they have them. This is how hardware and software is improved: users say what's wrong with it.

    One of the things I hate to hear techs tell non-techs is that "all computers crash". Too often, when I worked in tech support, I had people let real hardware problems go until the warranty ran out because, well, "don't computers all crash?"

    Also, how best to report problems. Error messages are important, even if you can't understand them. Copy and paste them if you can, or do a screen dump if you can't. While it's true that if e-mail is most important to you, then "I'm not getting any e-mail" is a valid description of your concern, it isn't going to help tech support help you when the real problem is that everything is frozen and you can't even move the mouse.

    I suppose then you've got to have a section on dealing with tech support.

    I would also recommend some reference to the expert effect: if you rely on advice only from tech geeks when purchasing hardware or software, you'll get hardware and software that only a dedicated tech geek would enjoy. King Ludd.

    Jerry

  294. Re:Your Sig... by Mr.+Sketch · · Score: 1

    The site is just pointing that those phrases you mentioned are not in the constitution verbatum. Some similar ideas may be expressed or implied in parts of the constitution as you said, but those exact phrases are not present in the constitution.

    From the site:

    Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness
    This phrase is commonly attributed to the Constitution, but it comes from the Declaration of Independence.

    Of the people, by the people, for the people
    This phrase is commonly attributed to the Constitution, but it comes from the Gettysburg Address.

  295. This may be silly.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... and it may be repititious (I don't really have the patience to read the zillions of replies to this post). If I were to write such a book, I would sit down with my 85 year old grandmother (in the early stages of dementia) and try to take her through whatever problems she seems to be having. As she keeps asking questions (as she undoubtedly will) take notes on those questions (don't bother taking notes on the answers you give because they will most likely be too complicated for poor granny anyway). Take the questions home and think about how you can answer them simply and without confusing g'ma. Do this enough times with enough grannies and you should have a plethora of questions.

  296. Based on your questions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should not write this book.

  297. As a web designer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I would like to see everyone move away from an 800x600 screen resolution and use something other than Internet Explorer!

  298. Re:What kind of questions are you so sick of answe by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
    I much prefer the term 'folder' to 'directory'. A directory is a list of things and their addresses, while a folder is a thing that contains other things. The word directory gives you details about how the concept is implemented (a list of filename to disk address mappings), while folder gives you information about how you should interact with it.

    'Document' and 'file' are both misleading though. An image might not be a document; it might just be a part of a document. The same is true of a sound. I really have no idea what a 'file' is supposed to be - I've never encountered one outside of a computer context. I am not sure what would be a good term to use here. 'Page' might work, or 'sheet,' since I tend to find pages or sheets of paper inside a folder. I quite like 'object,' but you need a better operating environment than most systems currently provide for this not to be misleading.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  299. Trying to fit the ocean in a thimble? by Americano · · Score: 1
    I have a fair idea of what should be in it (history of the Internet, how computers talk to each other, what a hard drive does, etc.), but I'm interested to see what you all have to say. What do you wish your users knew? What kind of questions are you so sick of answering because you hear them every week? What does the general public think they understand, but really don't?
    You've given yourself a Herculean (perhaps even Sisyphean) task with that topic. By definition, this would have to be a very general book. This means it would, by definition, have to cover a VAST amount of territory if you want it to be at all useful, even on a conceptual level. The problem here is that, at least in my experience, books that are that general & high level cover 400 acres, but only about 1/8 inch deep.

    In other words, I don't see how you can do much more than barely scratch the surface when writing a "general purpose" book like this, and probably that scratch will be virtually useless to 99% of the people out there.

    At what point do you stop explaining? How many options will you cover, if there are half a dozen perfectly usable tools available to do something as basic as printing a letter? Do you tell them to go install OpenOffice, Emacs, Vi, MS Word, something else? Do you explain how to do THAT, too? Hell, those are just the options on Windows, too... there's probably a dozen or two more readily available on Linux, and I have no idea how many options there are on OS X, but I'd guess there's quite a few there, too. Do you see where I'm going yet?

    I think there are too many choices to write a useful all-purpose book for everybody. Most every-day users don't care that much about how the hardware works, so long as it DOES work... so I don't think you're going to have a terrifically high readership in that market segment. My best advice is, write a book titled something like, "How To: 50 Things you can get done today with your new Dell Windows XP PC." Keep it focused to a specific OS, set of hardware options, and applications. If you're going to cover a particular app, it either better be pre-installed on the hardware, or available for install from the CD which accompanies the book.

    Keep it task-oriented. Sending & receiving email using Outlook Express or Thunderbird. Browsing a web site. "Five things you absolutely SHOULD have running on your system at all times" -- something along the lines of antivirus, spybot, backups, firewall, automatic updates, and explain how to set it up with some good default settings.

    I think you're undertaking something that's damn near impossible as you described it, or virtually unreadable if you do manage to finish. Without keeping it very focused, you'll drive yourself insane.
  300. Re: Basic File Management by gryphokk · · Score: 3, Informative

    While the above discourse on location is quite informative, I'd like to add one point which needs clarification: the difference between the location (folder/pathname) and the application.

    I get so sick of asking people where foo.doc is and being told "It's in Word."

    Word, (Excel, et.al.) is a tool, not a place.

    The physical world equivalent would be asking

    "Where do keep your screws?"

    "In my screwdriver."

    --
    And you, madam, are very ugly. In the morning, I shall be sober.
  301. opportunistic by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    I was at fry's yesterday. There was a very attractive lady and her friend looking at computers. She had a piece of paper with the statistics of a machine on sale at Best Buy. Being that my knowledge of computers is about the only thing going for me in these sort of situations, I offered some help. Words like Gig and Meg caused her confusion because she didn't understand their roots. I explained that Gig and Meg were just amounts. I explained they just meant you added 0's to the amount. Once she realized they had nothing to do with what the part actually is, she was able to focus on the words hard drive and memory. I wonder if vendors have realized that confusion means better sales and embarrasment means fewer returns.

    Sales people also hindered her. They were referring to machines as "the hard drive" and sometimes "the cpu". When she looked at one of the machines at fry's its statistics listed "CPU: AMD Sempron 3400+". She turned to me and asked, "I thought this CPU was an HP. Why does it list cpu and hard drive". It took very little time explaining to her the sales people were not as technical as they put themselves up to, and to ignore their jargon.

    She didn't give me a phone number but at least I felt good about de-mything the machine.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  302. +7, Insightful by Poromenos1 · · Score: 0

    Exactly.

    --
    Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
  303. Vocabulary! by Jtheletter · · Score: 1
    I think a big key to this book will have to be vocabulary - specifically making it very clear that each computer term or part has its own name and meaning, and no they don't all mean the same thing.
    Half the trouble in diagnosing friend/family computer troubles for me is just trying to figure out what's really going on, it's gotten to the point where I just tell them to unplug the whole thing until I can see it in person because so much time and effort is wasted trying to extract relevent information over the phone/IM/email.

    For example: Ethernet, Internet, IE, ethernet cable, modem, NIC are all DIFFERENT things, yet most laymen refer to them pretty much interchangably.

    Related to this a great chapter would be on some basic troubleshooting skills for simply explaining/diagnosing a problem. Saying "the internet is broken!" means nothing. Does the browser open? Does it open but you get an error? Is it a hardware issue (e.g. no connection status light)? Is it a problem with the cable modem or the router? People seem to just give up describing the problem once they express what end-level task isn't working.

    Also people need to take note of what's going on when a problem occurs, half the time I'm treated to blank stares when I ask what they were doing before or during an error. Did you have 26 broswer windows open? Were you running Doom minimized? Did you get a popup warning? When an error occurs people seem to just turn off their brains and forget any information that would be helpful in figuring out what caused the problem in the first place.

    And finally, related to the above, is convincing people that a computer is not a magic box that does things at random. It is in fact a purely logical device and will follow orders even when it's not a good idea. Problems don't occur for no reason, there is cause and effect, although it may not always be completely obvious at first glance. People need to keep track of what they are doing mentally, and if they're installing software or making changes they need to WRITE DOWN EVERYTHING that they do. That way when they change some widget setting in firefox and suddenly a day later they notice that flash functionality is broken they can say "what has changed that might cause this?" and figure it out instead of deciding the computer simple broke for no reason and not having any idea where to start.

    --
    -- I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. It's not my fault that life sucks so much. --
  304. Use age/background-appropriate analogies by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    Of course, this means that you can't write a book for a wider audience, but maybe that's what you really need to do.

    1) "Understanding Computers: For people who live through The Great Depression"
    2) "Understanding Computers: For people who have always had one at work"
    3) "Understanding Computers: The extra stuff you need to know to help your parents"

    and so on. My point is that most people understand complex things best when they see it in terms of something they're already comfortable with. That's why we get "horseless carriages" and "wireless phones" and "paint programs."

    But someone in their fifties, for example, might be best helped along with the library analogy. Or, when people say it's too hard to tell one behavior from another, remind them that they already know the difference between the phone ringing, the doorbell, and the smoke alarm going off, and that they just need to take their time.

    A typical consumer machine has more moving parts (so to speak) than all the other stuff in the household combined. Sooth some nerves by saying that you wouldn't expect someone from 100 years ago to be able to walk into your house and immediately know how to use the stove, the thermostat, the alarm, the phones... let alone know which pieces of postal mail that show up in the box are worth reading and which are best thrown away. But even 50-year-old computer-phobes tackle that sort of complexity in other forms all the time - they just need to break it down into pieces, like everything else they've learned.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  305. Files for regular people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know why people make this complicated. I worked at a computer store in the 1980s back when buying a PC was a major thing and we actually had free training services. I didn't do training, but I'd take a customer to a file cabinet and say "This is your hard drive" and I'd open a drawer and say "this is a directory" and I'd pull out a file and say "this is a file." Got it? Of course.

    1. Re:Files for regular people by davez0r · · Score: 1

      i've actually done that very thing with my mother and it hasn't caught on. i've even pointed out that windows folders actually look like manila folders, but it doesn't catch on. she still asks me what the difference is between a file and a folder.

      i think the difficulty lies in that, nearing 60, she used the phrase "keep [something] on file", which would mean to keep it in a folder somewhere. maybe i'm way off.

    2. Re:Files for regular people by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Okay. You have explained to me how you can have a flat directory structure. Now explain how you can have folders in folders in folders in folders. I think the recursiveness is part of the problem. To their credit, I think it took the geeks quite a while to come up with the concept of fully hierarchical filesystems - mostly because they didn't need them at first. Well, many normal people don't need them even now.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  306. Re:What kind of questions are you so sick of answe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I remember having to go through contortions to explain the concept of a "file" and "directory" to my mom."

    Yeah. I had to explain (so she could understand it) an n-tier client-server application to a clinically trained nurse who had been working in phychology for the past 10 years. After that she wanted to understand relational databases and data normalization.

    I kept expecting to get a bill for all the time she spent trying to understand these concepts.

  307. Darn Right - the same for Windows XP by hlrsenet · · Score: 0
    why her computer would be susceptible to a virus.

    And that goes for WindowsXP too - no wonder so many people have problems with it!
  308. Depends on your audience. by fumblebruschi · · Score: 1

    ...not necessarily how smart you think they are, but how much effort you think they're willing to put in.

    I have an older sister, a biochemist, who's extremely smart, but who had never really used a computer at all until very recently. She emailed me a while ago and asked, "How do computers work?"

    I thought about it, and decided to explain it so she could really understand it. Over the last year I've been sending her mid-length essays explaining things in stages. For instance, start with binary numbers; then a short primer on Boolean logic; then a simple explanation of Claude Shannon's paper on how Boolean gates could be physically implemented using electromagnetic relays. Then explanations of semiconductors, why silicon, why boron, why phosphorus. And so on.

    It seems to me that most people aren't really good at sustained systematic study; I'm not myself. Instead, I start by learning a fact pretty much at random, then another fact, and so on, until I have a large enough collection of facts that a pattern emerges and I can grasp an underlying principle. Once you understand the principles, you can learn anything about a system fairly easily.

    That was how I learned Linux--after asking a number of people and receiving various replies, all of which were a variation on "Don't start by doing X," until I had to conclude that there just isn't any good way to start, so I might as well start at random. It helped that I had a laptop I didn't need, so I could install any distro I wanted and if I screwed up beyond my ability to repair it, I'd just re-install. That turned out to be handy, since you can do stuff people warn you against. ("What actually happens if I edit /etc/inittab to set initdefault to 0?" "Exactly how far would rm -rf/ go if I hit Escape after about two seconds?" Worth trying.)

    1. Re:Depends on your audience. by qa'lth · · Score: 1

      Good lord, man, publish those essays! It's exactly what I would love to be able to read!

  309. "Code" is pretty good at explaining computers by DunderXIII · · Score: 1

    It's a book by Charles Petzold that explains very well how computers work: http://www.charlespetzold.com/code/ The rest depends on how apt your grandma is at grasping concepts.

  310. Understanding is the wrong approach by smoker2 · · Score: 1
    I really think that trying to get your average person to "understand" a computer is putting the cart before the horse. First you have to get them to become familiar with its interface.

    For example, explain the concept of a window and then describe the functions that are available from the menu attached to that window. Many years ago, my father was introducing me to a word processing suite (on an Amstrad 1512 IIRC) which was new to me as we had previously only had DOS to play with (Nascom, Compaq 8086 etc). One question he asked me while we were sitting in front of the screen was "if you wanted to visually change the way you were working with this program where would you start ?" Of course the answer was/is you go to the "View" menu item. Simple stuff, but people generally think thats too simple or don't even think to try it.

    Which brings me to my second point. Explain to people that they actually have to read what's on the screen ! The answer to all their questions is going to be there, if they would just look and read what it says. Which brings in another aspect - the GUI. Maybe it's a good plan to itemise each part of the GUI, desktop, taskbar, system tray etc. A friend of mine phoned to ask how to change the size of all the text on his computer because it was too small. I guessed he was after changing the resolution rather than specifying a larger font size for all the apps, so I asked him to right click on the desktop and click properties from the menu that popped up. I spent 10 minutes waiting for him to accomplish this ( I could hear random clicking over the phone, but it went on for far too long) and in the end I asked him what he was doing. He replied that he was looking for the folder called "desktop" so that he could right click on it ! I had to tell him to close all the open windows and then what was he was left looking at was called "The desktop". Oh yeah, he said. He's not dim by any means but this is the problem. One way I used to try and help people was to tell them "right click gives you options - left click makes things happen".

    I could go on for days about this subject, but I think that once you have the GUI and the concept of reading what the screen says embedded in their minds, then the only cautionary thing you ought to impart is " Crap in - Crap out ". If the computer comes out with something unexpected, then 10:1 it's because you put the wrong data in.

    The internet is a whole new kettle of fish, but once you can get the user to be familiar with their surroundings, and be a little confident in their actions, then common sense usually kicks in. Hopefully then, they will notice when their pc slows down due to spyware, and they will learn which sites to avoid because of popups and not to download anything just because its "free".

    I know one thing, it's got to be easier to write a book about it than deal with the people face to face. Sometimes it's very hard not to lose patience when something is so obvious, but that's just me ;-)

    (Sad but true - once when I was about 19, a friend of mine was given a smallish astronomical telescope. Nothing too special but you could get a good look at the moon with it. Anyway, after a few weeks I was visiting and he was in a foul mood for some reason. I asked him what the problem was, and he said he'd been cleaning his telescope when he decided to clean the mirror. He had been using AutoSol, an automotive chrome polish, and he said "the bastards put the silvering on the wrong side of the glass !" Of course, he polished the mirror right off the glass. I couldn't believe anybody would be so dumb. It never occurred to me that maybe not everybody knew about optical mirrors and the refraction problems caused by glass. I've always remembered that day, and I'm still a little ashamed about how I reacted. But it is hard to relate (gracefully) to a lesser understanding sometimes.)

  311. Memory V. Hard Drive by Eckzow · · Score: 1

    People need to understand the difference between memory and hard drive. My god. And good luck on this one, because I know some people who still get it wrong, 30,000 explainations later...

    1. Re:Memory V. Hard Drive by jejones · · Score: 1

      Amen. If I'm ever sent to jail for a crime of passion, it will be for assaulting someone who refers to hard drive space as "memory."

    2. Re:Memory V. Hard Drive by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      Amen. If I'm ever sent to jail for a crime of passion, it will be for assaulting someone who refers to hard drive space as "memory."

      Hard disks are memory. If you mean "RAM", you should say that.

  312. Re: Basic File Management by Lugae · · Score: 1

    The file system is the most misunderstood thing I find among laypeople. I'm tired of, "I saved it in Microsoft Word," or the slightly more informed, "In 'My Documents'" answer to "Well, where is your file?" I would encorage users to use the desktop explorer/shell/file manager for a week to find their files.

    Please write about the file system!

  313. The concept of files by aconkling · · Score: 1
    Being realistic, I don't think that most users wish to attain a deep understanding of their computers, so some of the hardware stuff is right out. However, I work in computer application support (mostly Microsoft Office stuff) and one thing that I find that users don't understand is the concept of files... and it's much to their detriment. Users think of their files as being "in" the application they use to work with them. This obfuscates the concepts of backing up, copying/moving, or accessing files on a shared/network drive. Sometimes, I've even seen it baffle people when they have files of a type spread across their drive because they expect ALL their files to be present when they click the Open button in the app.

    I actually bounced this frustration off of my friend Z and he had a good analogy:
    You have your paper files in your folders, in the cabinet. My Documents is like the folder that holds your paper in the filing cabinet that is your computer. Just as multiple people can look at the paper files in your cabinet, so too can multiple programs look at, or run, a single electronic file. Each program has a different specialty, just as each person. An engineer and a secretary can both look at the same file, but get very different things from it and do different things with it. An engineer could make design adjustments to a schematic, whereas a secretary may only be able to adjust formatting/spelling or produce copies of it. Even though they look at the file differently and can do different things with or to it, the file itself is no different. Certain computer files only really make sense to one program (just as schematics probably only make sense to the engineer and not the secretary), so that's we generally open them in that program (such as *.doc files in Word).

    This may be too reductive and excedingly patronizing, but I gave it a shot.
    I thought it was pretty good and the idea of non-technical analogies that people will already understand is a good inroad to computer education, in my opinion. A pat answer, but I don't think it can be overstated, especially since the "file cabinet" analogy is about as old as computer files (and is used in nearly every file/folder icon) but many people still don't seem to grasp it.

    On a tangent, this specific difficulty does lend credence to the idea of a metadata/type file manager. (And that's something I'm reluctant to admit.)
    1. Re:The concept of files by datamichael · · Score: 1

      I wholeheartedly agree. And that's why the main premise of my book "Computer Secrets I Taught My Mom" is files; what they are, different types, and most importantly, the file structure.

      Michael Shannon
      Author "Computer Secrets I Taught My Mom"
      http://www.smartguypress.com/

      --
      Author "Computer Secrets I Taught My Mom"
    2. Re:The concept of files by bigpurpledick · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      Assuming that the user knows how to "use" a computer (power on, use a mouse,
      type a document, browse the internet), File Management 101 should be the
      first lesson taught. It is easy to grasp because it is easy to see. It is
      also a great analogy for what happens in the rest of the computer, both
      hardware and software. The concepts of hierarchy and modularity extend
      throughout computing in general.

      Users are constantly faced with options for opening or saving files. With just
      a little bit of insight, the big foreboding directory structure becomes remarkably
      tame. The user feels empowered.

      With this knowledge, users will instantly become much more efficient in their
      computing experiences. More importantly, though, they are much more likely to
      protect their data by backing it up if they understand how it's housed.

  314. this and that by -Harlequin- · · Score: 1

    Printing images confuses people. Much of that is that often even the people they turn to for help don't understand the difference between DPI and PPI. I find that people click when it is explained as "it takes many dots to draw a single pixel, since a combination of four colours of dots, plus the white space between them, needs to be printed in order to produce a colour at a location, ie a pixel". Image resolution also needs to be conceptually seperated from print size, since any res can be printed at any size, but might look poor, or conversely, make the computer chug.

    Another one that no-doubt you'll already have covered, is the difference between memory (ram) and memory (hard drive). To many people, there is only "memory" in their computers, measured in Mb (or Gb), and they make poor upgrade decisions because they have heard that more memory will fix their problem, so they go out and buy the wrong kind, or they delete things off the drive to free up "memory" when RAM is their bottleneck.

    Another one: "The upcoming version of Mac/Windows/whatever is so revolutionary it is going to crush the other" has been said every year for 20 years and beyond. It was rubbish then, it's rubbish now, and twenty years from now it will still be rubbish, yet such words come earnestly from the mouths of many experts that people turn to for advice.
    Give the readers some tools to realise when the supposed expert's own ideological blinkers/commitments are unduly influencing the advice and suggestions they give.

  315. Color Television by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A long time ago, I was a teaching assistant for a CS course hell bent on teaching incoming frosh how to use a computer. Part of the course dove into the internal workings and how a computer gets things done -- this included lecture/labs on binary numbers and arithmetic, logic gates, processors, RAM/ROM, hard drives, video cards, etc. etc.

    I always held the position that this was a complete waste of time and did not serve the purpose of the course. I held that you don't need to completely understand how something works (in some cases it requires no comprehension) to make it useful. To illustrate the point, consider color television. I don't know how color television works and don't care to know. I don't know the history of television technology. My ignorance, however, doesn't keep me from using the TV or enjoying it.

    [At the time, cable TV was a novelty and the TV analogy was wrt OTA signals. Then again, I don't know (or care to know) how color TV with cable works either!!]

    My point is that any effort towards authoring your book and making it useful does not necessarily require a history of computing or explanation of how it works.

    disclaimer: all analogies and metaphors are useful for illustration, but do not necessarily prove anything.

  316. Re: Basic File Management by Evil+Pete · · Score: 1

    I think a better description of a file is:

    A file is a collection of data in one place. Like a book on your bookshelf or a letter is information in one place. On the computer the "file" you create or are after has a name and it is located somewhere on disk. Just as you have rooms in your house or folders in your filing cabinet so your hard disk you can make directories or "folders" (same thing) with their own names so you can put files into. It is much easer to find a letter in a filing cabinet than just knowing it is somewhere in your house, and it is much easier finding a letter you wrote on your computer if you put it in a folder called "letters" for example.

    "File" is not an intuitive idea. And if someone doesn't get these fundamental concepts right at the beginning then they may nod and agree but they wont understand.

    My 2 cents worth anyway.

    --
    Bitter and proud of it.
  317. Lesson One: Abstraction by pkulak · · Score: 1

    I know exactly what you mean! My girlfriend asked me the other day "how do computers work"? She was genuinely interested, and that launched me into full geek mode. I started at the top, but she just kept asking "How?". Pretty soon I was drawing a circuit diagram to add two small numbers. Then, after I had gotten as far down as possible (for me at least), she asked how that circuit diagram makes the pixels on her screen light up.

    I think most people don't know how much abstraction is involved in computing, and how much hand waiving you really need to do to understand anything.

    1. Re:Lesson One: Abstraction by rufty_tufty · · Score: 1

      I have had the exact same conversation myself. The first time she asked, it got so far as describing how the computer might know how to put the characters that come from your keyboard onto the screen. Then she wanted to know how the keyboard could communicate with the computer. So I start talking about serial protocols and microcontrollers and keyboard scan patterns. Then she wanted to know how a microcontroller might work, which then needed a description of basic software, which brought us right back to entering characters into the computer.

      The second time this conversation came up I spent a long time before hand explaining the concept of abstractions (she was asking about my day at work and couldn't understand what i was talking about and wanted to know).
      One explanation of black boxes later and a black box diagram of the computer on her desk and I got a "Is that it? So how does the memory work then?" a quick black box diagram later and I got a "Is that it? How does..." You get the idea.
      If you can, as you suggest, black box in such a way to put off questions about the details, as we do, and provided your audience doesn't want the entire answer, but each part of the answer provides a reward, then in my experience you can keep people going much longer...

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
  318. Re:Moving beyond the status quo... by benjamindees · · Score: 1

    The real surprise is just how long it's taking to get past this point.

    Why is that surprising? On the one hand, you have commercial software that is the equivalent of a car with the hood welded shut and a dealership that wants to sell you a new car every time there is a problem. And on the other hand, you have users who are convinced that computers are beyond their comprehension and they are entitled to unlimited hand-holding for their $500 that they spent on a new Dell. Not surprisingly, what we get is computers that are disposable, just like everything else that might take lazy stupid Americans more than ten minutes to repair.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  319. Google Knows by indrax · · Score: 1

    Who is the prime minister?

    Of course it gets help from wikipdia.

  320. The Messy Room Analogy by brock+bitumen · · Score: 1
    I used to help out my parents' friends with their computers in high school, i have this very nice metaphor to show for it.

    The Messy Room Analogy
    Why RAM is important, or What the Major Components in a Computer Do

    Ok you have a messy room, clothes everywhere, all over the floor. The floor is your hard drive, it stores your clothes, the data. They are randomly distributed and can be randomly accessed. You need to bring your clothes to the washing machine downstairs, for processing - your washing machine is the CPU. To get your clothes there you must put them in a basket, the basket is your RAM. You will get your clothes done faster (process data faster) by a) having faster washing machines, but if you can't get your clothes there as fast as you can wash them (ok, breaking from reality a little now) then there's no point so you should b) have more RAM because then you won't have to walk to your room so often (acess the hard drive) which takes up a lot more time because you have to walk around picking everything up, not just dumping it from the basket into the machine. So there comes a point where you don't need a much faster processor unless you also get more RAM.

    Of course, with a bigger hard drive you can store more clothes, but it won't necessarily have any effect on the speed of your computer because that's dependent on how often you need to wash your clothes (how much processing you need to do) and how fast you can get your clothes to the machines (basket size, amount of RAM)

    By defragmenting you effectively take all your clothes and rearrange them to be sorted by color or whatever, maybe instead you fold them, I don't know. In the end it makes it so you've ordered the clothes so that they can be found faster, and will be typically picked up in the order found and not require running all over the room. Your floor gets messy because you toss your clothes wherever you happen to be standing when you take them off - eventually this reordering is required, typically on a monthly basis or when you feel that it's become overwhelmingly difficult to find things when you need them. Some filesystems used on other operating systems (methods for keeping the clothes in your room, on the floor, in shelfs, under your bed) have a nice method of also putting clothes back where it found it, and keeping externally maintained tabular lists of their locations, so that this regular reorganization of the clothes is unnecessary. Checking the lists against your drawers or whatever on a regular basis does become important though. go ahead, have fun with this, it can go forever, believe me, i've taken this way to far

    So, I'm sure by now you can tell what kind of room I kept (and keep) and who I was dealing with when providing this metaphor - none other than: your target audience, Ma.

  321. Industry Standard Software = Low Quality by DavidHumus · · Score: 1
    OR "Intuitively Obvious" isn't.

    If software seems maddeningly inconsistent and is difficult to figure out, that's because it really is: it's not because you're stupid.

    People (and 'bots) on Slashdot tend to be so immersed in the arbitrariness and foibles of technology that we don't see how opaque and difficult it is. Take a look at (Wall Street Journal's) Walter Mossberger's disclaimer and the start of Cooper's book ahref=http://www.cooper.com/content/insights/newsl etters/2004_issue02/Inmates_Foreword_excerpt.aspre l=url2html-17034http://www.cooper.com/content/insi ghts/newsletters/2004_issue02/Inmates_Foreword_exc erpt.asp> to get an idea of some things you should keep in mind.

    Mossberger's Disclaimer

    Attention, Nontechies

    Don't be embarrassed by your problems with computers. Just remember: you're not a "dummy," no matter what those computer books claim. The real dummies are the people who, though technically expert, couldn't design hardware and software that's usable by normal consumers if their lives depended upon it.

    (Also from Mossberger recently (Protecting Your Computer/January 12, 2006; Page B3): There's no other major item most of us own that is as confusing, unpredictable and unreliable as our personal computers.)

    Different people have different ways of understanding but don't underestimate the value of simple diagrams. Also, it's helpful to repeat things in slightly varying ways as some people will understand one phrasing but not another. Re-iterating an important point with a few examples also helps drive it home because multiple views of the same thing help place it in perspective. A multi-media approach might prove its worth because some people have visual memories whereas others remember more "by ear".

    Specific things to point out are issues like (when entering information):

    Case sometimes matters but sometimes doesn't

    AND

    Spaces and punctuation can be inordinately important

    [aside] Why do web pages asking for credit card numbers usually refuse to accept it in the more-readable and easily-checkable format as it appears on my card? Many forms require the number to be entered with no internal spaces - is it really so hard to have the code deal with these? [\aside]

    There's probably only one or two things you'll be doing with your computer and you can learn those things even if it's by rote.

    Lastly, but most importantly, find someone who understands this better than you do and pay him lots of money. Worship him like a god.

  322. What people should understand about People. by bigchrissd · · Score: 1
    I believe in trying to explain computers to your parents and grandparents, you must first start by trying to understand where your parents and grandparents are coming from.

    When they were young, things like computers were not apart of their world. They may not know how to understand how computers work. Either they get it (and therefore won't need to read your book), or they don't, and these I believe are who you are trying to reach.

    In other words, they need to understand what using computers means to them, in their world view. They need to see the really, really big picture (the one that seems super-obvious to the rest of us).

    I would think such a book would be more about people you're trying to reach, not the technology. Perhaps tell moving, lightly but technically detailed stories about people who have used computers to help complete some part of their lives where something had been missing before.

    Anyway, even I would think that would be more gripping and entertaining then a technical reference on computer parts.

  323. Do us all a favour. . . by RossumsChild · · Score: 1

    and DON'T make the "history of computers and the internet" the first chapter.

    Nothing annoyed me more throughout my CS courses than that each textbook decided that it had to re-teach me the history of punch cards and vaccuum tubes. Make that crap an appendix and keep it out of my way. If I'm looking for a practical guide to computing, finding that the book's most valued factoids concern how many rooms the first computer took up gives me little confidence in its remaining pages.

  324. My 0.02 US Dollars (2006)... by Dave21212 · · Score: 1


    Here's a few of my favorites:

    1) I've seen a few other folks mention it, but it's worth repeating - A computer (keyboard) is not physically fragile, and most programs run just fine even with abusive usage patterns - put another way, you can't hurt the computer just by using it.

    2) Computers are not "smart" - they don't know anything, they don't remember anything, they don't know who you are, it's just a tool. I'm sure you could put that more eloquently.

    3) Almost every non-computer person I know uses computing term incorrectly, correction, ALL OF THEM do this...
    - They use the term "Memory" to mean hard drive space ("my computer has memory left, why won't it go?")
    - They use "The Internet" to mean any information they can access via computer.
    - They use "hard disk" to mean the CD drive, yeah, I know it's a disk, and I know it's hard... but it's not a hard disk !!!

    4) When they have trouble accessing a web page, they say "My computer is broken" - please explain to them that their computer is probably just fine, the site they went to is "down" (yeah, and explain down to them while you are at it).

    5) Explain to them how to save, and then FIND files... if I had a nickle for every time someone couldn't find a file that "the computer lost" only to discover it among 200 other "lost" file in 'My Documents', I'de be rich.

    Good luck by the way !

    --
    "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
  325. we need a logan's run-type system by demonic-me · · Score: 1

    My grandparents are under the impression that doing ANYTHING is a virus. if i change the desktop, its a virus, if i install something, its a virus. etc, etc. you should specifically explain all the types of malware, and their differences, and what isnt malware

  326. Memory vs Harddisk capacity by swilver · · Score: 1

    120 GB, when I ask my dad how much memory his computer has.

  327. What to write! / What to not write! by joto · · Score: 1
    It seems like there are an abundance of books like this. At most of my local grocery stores I can pick up copies of norwegian books with titles like "Bli kjent med [...]" (Get to know [...]) Windows XP/Microsoft Word/Excel/etc. All of the books standing along the weekly magazines, and comparable in price to a pulp novel.

    These books seem to cover what people really need in order to use a computer. Of course, there are no books of the kind "Get to know bits and bytes", or even "Get to know PCs"...

    It isn't entirely unlikely that the market is somewhat at fault here (favouring books describing well-known products, and favouring books from a common series "Get to know...", "... For Dummies", etc.

    But I also think it's a fault of the consumers. The thing is, "stupid" computer users aren't rational. They want a computer, but have no idea what they are going to use it for. Having bought a computer they don't need, they refuse to learn how to use it. And when it all breaks down, they complain about it, instead of sitting down and learning the basics that they should have done in the first place.

    The thing is, computers are general-purpose machines that people need to learn how to use, in order to get any benefits at all from them. Even more so, if it's your private computer, you also need to learn some basic maintenance, since there is no IT department to blame. If you are not willing to invest this time into learning the basics, you have no right to complain when things go wrong. Part of the problem is that smart salesmen are always telling the buyers the exact opposite.

    If I were to write the kind of book you are describing, the previous paragraph (or something very much like it), would be the blurb on the back-side of the cover. This is not an easy book to write, but it's a useful one.

    On the other hand, a book explaining bits and bytes for laymen has been sitting on the shelf in the local community library since 1981. It has been lent out 4 times (one of them was to me).

  328. RAM vs. HD by flibbidyfloo · · Score: 1

    I don't know how important it is for the layperson to know the difference, but it always drives me nuts when people try to describe a problem to me and constantly confuse RAM and Disk space.

    I will say that when I trained our sales staff on some basics like this so they could start selling software services they all seemed to really like understanding a bit more than they did before.

    I usually use some analogies to explain the difference between RAM and Disk space, like "RAM = the top of your desk, HARD DRIVE = your filing cabinet". I finally got my mom to stop asking if she needed more memory before she could install a new lineage tracking program.

  329. All they need to know by macdaddy357 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Computers are evil devil boxen hellbent on taking over the world!

    --
    How ya like dat?
  330. Re: Basic File Management (give 'em Pages, then) by bshell · · Score: 1
    My mother cannot grasp the concept of folders. She puts every document relating to one theme in a single file; she prints out whatever pages of that file matter for a single document. It's a terrible system.
    My wife is exactly the same and she's nowhere near her 60s. She keeps all her "files" in a few large Word docs. Each one starts on a different page. When she wants one, she just opens the Word doc and goes to that page, or prints "From page 6 to 9" or whatever. I used to be bothered about this, and have tried numerous times to explain how it really works, just as thc69 tries with his mother.

    However, now I'm thinking: If this is how people think, maybe the OS should present things to the user like this. Why should files and folders concern them? These common users think they've already got a good system: pages. So why don't we computer geeks give them what they want? Eventually computers are going to have to become easier than they are now, in the same way that cars got automatic transmission. Perhaps one of these concepts will be a more natural way for people to "manage files". Computer files and folders are not natural. No ordinary mortal thinks of files and folders. Getting a "fresh page" is more natural. So future operating systems should head in that direction rather than trying to get people to think of files.

  331. Avoid OUTLOOK by SirLanse · · Score: 1

    Outlook Express will kindly run whatever hacker scripts the luser is sent. Have them get an HTML email account and access it via the browser.

  332. My Cents. by Joudoki · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think that the best way to explain something to someone who has absolutely no idea what you are talking about is to use metaphores and / or analogies. For example, to explain how the file structure works: "Think of your computer's hard drive as a filing cabinet. In a filing cabinet, you have individual drawers, and inside of the drawers you can have green folders, and inside of those folders you can have vanilla folders. Your hard drive is almost exactly the same, the main differences being that it can store much more then a filing cabinet, and that you can have an infinite amount of nested folders." Or, you could go with the tree aproach, and explain that the main trunk is the drive, and each branch is a folder, and each leaf is a file, and maybe have a picture of a tree, but with the trunk / branches / leaves labled.

    1. Re:My Cents. by r0wan · · Score: 1

      I agree completely with this. I had an end-user send a props email to my boss just because I explained the complexities of email systems to her using a cell phone analogy. She was so grateful to have someone explain a computer system to her in a way that really helped her to understand it.

      PC Guide is an excellent example of this. It's somewhat out of date, but the author breaks down every component of a computer AND uses analogies and terms that Joe User could understand. It's pretty much how I taught myself about memory...among other things.

      Another good example is How Stuff Works. They have an entire section on computers.

      --
      If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.
  333. Too Tempting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I cant show you what the matrix is...."

  334. Re:What kind of questions are you so sick of answe by Guitarzan · · Score: 1

    You've never seen a file cabinet?

  335. Older person: Why are computers so #*@ important? by smchris · · Score: 1

    Answer: Because they empower the second industrial revolution.

    Steam engines allowed reliable manufacturing and transport beyond anything manpower or horsepower could imagine. They augmented muscle.

    Computers allow research and information flow beyond anything people could imagine. They augment brains.

    As the steam engine released an extraordinary flood of products, computers will unleash an extraordinary flood of discovery -- and that means things like cancer cures.

    A "big picture" thought presumably obvious to /.ers but one I think a lot of people who don't work in cubes don't appreciate -- particularly mothers and other such older folk who might hark back to when the U.S. was a manufacturing hub that still made "things".

  336. Use my "monkeys running a library" analogy by morethanapapercert · · Score: 1

    Back when I was working tech support for a national ISP, I often was left trying to explain computer concepts to some befuddled blue-haired lady. The problem wasn't that she was stupid, or wasn't listening, but rather that it was so vastly different to anything she had Real World experience with. She was left with no frame of reference, no way to get a handle on the basics. Every acronym I used cut comprehension by 25%.
      What I would do is explain the hardware and core functions in terms of monkeys running a library. The CPU is a monkey in the librarians office. That animal is very very fast and good at following simple instructions. S/he only has so much deskspace (L1 and L2 cache) to work with however. Thus, there is a front counter (RAM)staffed by very Rain-man like apes whose job it is to fetch information and recipes from the main library shelves. (HDD)
      By extension, I could describe the video card as an artist, the NIC as a loading dock and so on. A virus was then easily explained as a bad recipe planted surruptitiously by a vandal. I found that there were very few concepts I couldn't explain at that level. Using this system, I have successfully taught grannies the concepts of Routers, bandwidth usage, Remote Desktop, SSL, why her email ended up on her daughters computer and hence why she can't read it on her home computer and many other things.
      As others have said, the your challenge will be providing the right balance of simple explanations and important concepts. Your question, however, was what concepts I wish my users knew, so here is my list:
    1) a computer is like any other machine, it needs maintainence to work at it's best. (removing unneeded apps, regular defrags antivirus and antiscumware scans, vacuuming out the killer dust bunnies from the CPU and power supply fans etc)
    2) actually read what the computer tells you. (error messages, those "are you sure" alerts, and of course EULA's, but I know that last one is a forlorn hope)
    3) when it comes time to make a purchase, pay more attention to the guy who will be supporting it than the guy who is making a commission on the sale. (do you hear me mother-in-law? I told you you needed a 20$ cable for your camera, not the 2000$+ new camera the sales guy talked you into! me bitter? oh, a bit)
    4) RTFM! almost every piece of hardware I have ever seen comes with instructions, most Windows apps come with Help files. Before you call me in the middle of dinner for the 3rd time asking me about the same keyboard shortcut you can't remember, check the manual or Help files. Or for that matter, check the post-it note I left on your monitor the last time I came and showed you hwo to do it.
    5) Most problems you can solve yourself using Google, *if* you are willing to try.

    --
    I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
  337. Flawed analog. by Inoshiro · · Score: 1

    How to use a car is not in a glove box. Do they describe threshold braking? Road signs for your region? Counter steering techniques? The differences in handling between front-wheel and rear-wheel drive vehicles? How weight distribution and centre of gravity affect handling? How about proper shifting techniques, what to do if your clutch line is broken, or emergency driving techniques?

    How about driving to road conditions? Clearing off all external debris on a car (leaves, snow, etc) before using it? Regular adjustment of mirrors and the circle check? How many people do these things?

    Very few people can operate a vehicle, just like very few can operate a computer. They can use a car much like they can use a computer: they basically get going in a direction, and manage to follow enough rules that they don't get into an accident!

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
  338. backup means in two places by davez0r · · Score: 1
  339. Good books by jejones · · Score: 1

    Computer Lib/Dream Machines is one of the classics, but is hard to get and doesn't discuss recent (= in the last couple of decades) developments.

    But, Russy-poo has done the job for you. The Secret Guide to Computers is kept up to date, and while it covers many things and thus can't go into much detail about them, it does a good job and is fun to read. (I'm not associated with Russ Walter, save to the extent that I admire his work.)

  340. Computer vs Hard Drive by void+bear(void) · · Score: 1

    Please for the LOVE OF *insert deity reference* teach people the difference between a hard drive and a case. The amount of times people say 'my hard drive died' meaning "the box in the corner which is my computer just stopped working correctly". Just because it annoys me sooooo much!

  341. Keep them out of trouble by chrisatslashdot · · Score: 1
    Most people just want a computer that works. So I would explain how to avoid the pitfalls that cause computers to stop working.

    • Free software downloads will break your computer no matter how cute the screen saver is or how bad you need to know what temperature it is outside.
    • Keep documents, music, videos, and pictures separate from everything else so that you can reinstall applications and the OS without losing all of your work
    • It is usually easier to reinstall stuff than to fix it
    • Spyware, malware, and virii and how they propogate
    • Many programs want to run applets in the task bar but that these break the computer or at least slow it down.
    • File associations and that competing software applications will continuously fight over who gets to open the files.
    • How to tell if the web page they are viewing is secure
    • Setup a free spam collection email account for use when submitting an email address to anyone other than trusted friends.
    --


    Simple people talk of people, better people talk of events, great people talk of ideas.
  342. Just click the little "X" by The+Angry+Mick · · Score: 1
    They need to know that "Cancel" is a sure-fire way to get nothing done and be back where they started, and that they need to click "No" if they want to continue exiting the program but don't want to save the file.

    My users don't really have a problem with this - they just click the "'X' thingy at the top" to make the questions go away.

    P.S. Is there an emoticon that expresses uncontrollable, curled up in a fetal position, sobbing?

    --

    I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.

    1. Re:Just click the little "X" by silicon+not+in+the+v · · Score: 1
      My users don't really have a problem with this - they just click the "'X' thingy at the top" to make the questions go away.
      That is definitely something that bugs me about trying to help people with computers is that they don't even try to figure out what's happening. I don't know how many times I've seen this happen:

      A dialog box comes up, and the user quickly clicks one of the choices and it disappears.
      Me: "Wait, what was that?"
      User: "I don't know."
      Me: "Well, what was it asking?"
      User: "I don't know."

      There is such a strong fear of unexpected dialog boxes in many users, that it overrides their reason, and they will instinctively click anything at random to make the box go away so they don't have to see it. These episodes are followed by me encouraging them to try what they wanted to do again, and this time we'll read what the question says and decide what answer to click.
      --
      We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds
    2. Re:Just click the little "X" by The+Angry+Mick · · Score: 1

      Heh heh. Been there, brother

      What tickles me most about these exchanges is that when I ask the user why they just blew past that dialog box, they almost always say they are in a tremendous hurry and "don't want to be bothered".

      The only problem here is, of course, that because they blew past the dialog, they now have a problem that requires they call tech support, leave a message in the queue, and wait for me to get around to solving the problem. Since we're spread really thin in our shop (non-profit), it can often take up to an hour for me to call back.

      So now you have this poor user sitting still for an up to an hour, twiddling his thumbs, or gnawing away fingernails, all because he couldn't be bothered to read a message that said:

      Printer is Out of Paper. Retry?
      .
      --

      I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.

  343. Another HUGE benefit of carts... by burnttoy · · Score: 1

    Memory built into the cart for storing user preferences. If (when) I dig out old SNES or N64 carts I still have all my old stats... and I know where they are (till I loose the cart). I can take that cart, place it in another computer and have my "environment" back.

    This could however introduce a few problems when upgrading versions of a package. You'd have to export and import the data. Something along the lines of
            Insert Version 1.00
            Hit Export (app "hangs" waiting for V2 cart
            Remove Version 1.00 and Insert 2.00

    The only other issue that springs to mind is the number of software dongles I'm going to need. My laptop has at least a dozen "apps" that are frequently in simultaneous use.

    --
    Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
  344. Remind them that a computer can do over a billion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mine only does one hundred and thirty three million things a second you insensetive clod

  345. Some history is good, it explains things by cbreaker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There's lots of legacy concepts on computers today that might be confusing to a layperson but make perfect sense with a little bit of explination. The "Floppy Disk" that's not floppy at all (3.5" floppies) comes to mind.

    --
    - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    1. Re:Some history is good, it explains things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember a guy at school once holding up a 3.5 inch floppy and saying what a dumb name it was for something hard and rectangular. So I snatched it out of his hand, stamped on it, ripped open the plastic case and showed him the floppy round thing that was inside. Strangely he didn't seem pleased at his sudden increase in understanding.

  346. Sorry, your book has already been written. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
  347. nsf asked that question a while back by tduerig · · Score: 1

    I'm currently TAing for a class called "Introduction to Information Fluency" which is based on teaching the bare minimum required for non-technical people to not be helpless in today's society. The book for the class was directly created in response to the study by the nsf: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321357825/qid=11 37537623/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-843497 8-5059017?n=507846&s=books&v=glance I recommend people who actually care about the study just check out the TOC of that book. Also, the task is not at all as hopeless as people make it out to be. -T

  348. If they have to ask... by Killer+Instinct · · Score: 1

    ...Then they wouldn't understand. Most of the family members/friends I have "helped" would ask me a question, then once I gave the answer would never ask again. They just wanetd their computer "fixed", they could care less about how it works, why it works, what a OS is, etc. And its not that bad doing it for free, since its family/friends. The part that sucks is sitting down with a windows PC thats 2 years old, and some bright user thought re-installing windows on it 6 months ago was brilliant. They did it by themselves, and are proud to let me know. I have to sit down, install a firewall (zonelabs), and aniti-virus(grissoft, avg) and ad-aware, all of which take significantly longer to load on a computer which is chock full of virus', spyware, and who knows what else...(amazing which relative like the pron, they dont know i know..which can be very odd sometimes, i wish I didnt know most of the time) So make a picture book for kids, with high level drawings/snapshots. i.e. Here is a computer, here is a mouse, here is how you plug it into the wall...it will save you a lot fo grief, cause once your name is on the book....you'll had second cousins from step uncles hunting YOU down, asking for your help...

    --
    #include bier;
  349. Make it a picture book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Illustrated is the way.

    Dont forget to mention the difference between a monochrome printer and a color one. And why their color picture printed out in wondrous grayscale.

  350. It's just a tool, it can't think! by Easy2RememberNick · · Score: 1

    It's a tool for doing something.

      A hammer is used to pound nails into wood. If the hammer hits your thumb it's your fault, the hammer can't think, it didn't do it because you looked at it funny (well maybe in this example it could have!).

      A computer system is an information tool. If you lose your data it's your fault, the computer system can't think, it didn't do it because you looked at it funny.

      A tool will only do what the person using it makes it do.

  351. Teach them to teach themselves. by Caspian · · Score: 1

    There's an old saying: "Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime." (There's also an alternative version: "Make a man a fire, he's warm for a while. Set a man on fire, he's warm for the rest of his life.")

    The problem here is that most end-users just want you to give them a fish. Then, a week later, they want you to give them another fish. Then another. And another. And another...

    Many end-users I've dealt with say things like "Just tell me where to click." That's what they want; they want you to give them the "magical incantation" for them to follow, and they want you to give them a new "magical incantation" every time their operating system, computer, software version, mouse, condom brand or tie tack changes. They don't want to learn, even if they spend hours and hours a day in front of a computer just like us geeks.

    What us geeks need to do is simply refuse to just dole out "magical incantations"-- you know, the stupid-assed instructions written out on yellow sticky notes, or even typed into icon titles (e.g. "Foo Program-- DOUBLE CLICK ON ME FIRST!"). We need to teach the users to self-teach. This means teaching them to be unafraid to experiment within reason, and it also means teaching them what (in the context of computing) "reason" means. (I.e.: Actually read messages if you aren't 100% sure of what you're doing, don't tell the computer to "delete" or "erase" or "format" anything unless you want it gone, etc.)

    At one point, my mom had a sticky note by her computer reading "PRESS ENTER". Without that note, she wouldn't know how to log on to Windows 98.

    We shouldn't tolerate this crap unless we're being paid by the hour.

    --
    With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
  352. Patents by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

    People should learn about the problems with software patents.

  353. Re: Basic File Management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a usage in the paper-files world that uses "file" and "folder" interchangably: there is no distinction between the collection of paper and the paper device grouping the papers into collections.

  354. If you really want your book to work ... by Kessler · · Score: 1

    If you really want your book to work, don't approach it as a reference manual or even a tutorial. People with the inclination to read such material probably already have.

    The trick is to write something engaging that just happens to be sprinkled with tidbits of the basic information you're trying to get across. A classic example is "Soul of a New Machine". In that book Kidder does a magnificent job of telling a story. Yes, along the way he has to provide simple explanations of things like microcode and wire-wrapped circuit boards, but it's the story -- the reader's desire to find out what happens next -- that pulls them through the technical bits. The technical bits are explained in a way any average person can understand, but its the fact that knowing them helps you follow the story that provides extra motivation for non-technical readers. If the book had just been a collection of briliantly simplified technical explanations, few readers would have ever made it past the first chapter.

    A different approach with a similar objective would be to use humor. A book relating humorous stories from the IT industry (if done well enough) could entice non-techies to read it. As you relate the stories, you'd have an opportunity to sprinkle in the technical bits needed to see the humor. Definitely a challenge. The humor would have to be more "Reader's Digest" style than dry Dilbertesqe sarcasm, but I think a really tallented writer could pull it off and potentially have a big seller.

  355. One lesson: by agent0range_ · · Score: 1

    "Software should be free!"

  356. Re: Basic File Management by Alchemar · · Score: 1

    Please include that "Letter wrote on 1/17/06.doc" is not a good file name. The sad part is that I have seen some programs accept this and found file "06.doc" in directory "17"

  357. Re: Basic File Management (give 'em Pages, then) by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

    I agree. People understand the concept of a notebook that has lots of pages, so let them have one. :-)

    I also think a lot of the default UI elements on modern desktops (scroll bars, icons, and overlapping windows for starters) are overkill for a significant number of users.

    If they don't ever use two programs at once, and if they have a large enough screen to view a whole page at a time, then why confuse them by scattering strange graphical elements all over the screen that they might never care about?

    --
    Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
  358. Abstraction Layers by Bugmaster · · Score: 1
    I think the biggest misunderstanding -- the one from which all others stem -- is the tendency to treat the computer as a single entity. It's not; it's a complex system built out of parts.

    For example, it is a revelation for some people that if you save a picture from Photoshop, you can open it from Paint Shop Pro. It's an even bigger revelation that you can move music files from the "My Music" folder and still play them with Winamp.

    The lack of understanding of the file system is at the root of both of these problems. The same can be said for drives, peripherals, etc. etc.

    --
    >|<*:=
  359. Re:It's been written... Different Problem. by Pii · · Score: 1
    I don't think it's an optimistic stance on the human race... There are, after all, people that understand each and every bit of the things that make up our existence.

    It's also been said that the sum total of human knowledge doubles every four or five years, depending of which study you review. In either case, it's unreasonable to expect people to know a little bit of everything, because the number of subjects has multiplied out of control.

    We are now a species of specialization.

    Unfortunately, some people tend to specialize in nothing.

    --
    For those that would die defending it, Freedom
    has a sweet taste that the protected will never know.
  360. A few comments from someone in the trenches... by davevr · · Score: 1

    First off - I wish you great success in publishing such a book. It is sorely needed. Sadly, our experience echoes the suspicion of several posters who feel that no one would read it.

    Most users have no desire to read any sort of printed documentation. Consider that when we introduced the Macintosh in 1984, a major aspect of the advertising campaign was that Mac is so easy you could operate it after reading a 65 page manual. A modern computer user interface is significantly more complicated than that of the '84 Mac, and yet the majority of users are unwilling to read even a single page of instruction before operating their product. Many large companies will not upgrade to a new OS unless the training cost is essentially zero. That is one of the reasons why in Windows we invest in integrated help and just-in-time assistance rather than printed documentation.

    There already is a design model for Windows - the entire set of concepts that Windows exposes to the user. It is actually a graph of concepts, as some concepts are specializations of other concepts (for instance, you need to know about hard drives and RAM to understand Virtual Memory). We try to use this model when designing features to make sure that the subset of the model exposed by the feature is reasonable. For instance, if someone is transferring photos from their camera to their computer, they might have to know about folders but they shouldn't have to know about virtual memory.

    Of course, most users do not know the design model. Instead users have what we call a "user model" - their own independently formed conception of the computer. For many novice users, the user model is just a route memorization: "plug in the camera, wait for the little box to show up, click the third button, now click the second button, now click the OK button." This is too bad because in general the closer the user model is to the design model, the more successful the user will be in their computer experience. If your book can help them do it, it is great. However, it is worth nothing that as long as the user model works, it does not have to match the design model in order for the user to be successful.

    I am sure many readers of Slashdot have had the experience in which someone - maybe a parent or grandparent - who appears competent on Windows cannot perform even simple similar tasks in Linux. This is because while the design models are somewhat similar between Windows and, say, KDE (both have files, folders, etc.) the user's model breaks down due to the route changes (the button is in the top left instead of bottom right, etc.)

    We see this even between versions of Windows. We actually weigh the cost of seemingly minor things like icon changes, knowing that there are X million people who are invoking that feature solely by looking for that little picture. For instance, many people only recognize the regional settings control panel because it is a globe. If you don't have the globe, 10 million people won't be able to change their language settings.

    Someone pointed out that no one reads their car instruction manual and yet people can someone drive. This is true, and while a car is conceptually much simpler than a computer, we do strive to keep the design model as simple as possible. However, I would point out that you are required to pass a licensing exam (both a written test of rules and theory and an operating test) before you can legally drive. It is interesting to think about what such an exam would look like for computers and if we would ever get to the point where we require such a license (for example, running an email attachment called "MERRY XMAS - FUNNY.exe" could be an instant fail..)

    - davevr

  361. Major concepts by DustMagnet · · Score: 1

    I'd be sure to cover some major concepts universal to computing: representation, abstraction, memory hierarchies, analog vs digital, etc. These are useful concepts to understand and don't involve any specific implementation. Knowing how a hard disk works isn't really going to help anyone. Knowing it's random access, faster than a CD, but slower than memory, might help.

    --
    'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
  362. a license, not a book by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1
    I confess, I ran a helpdesk and I have discovered that there are no books that will ever teach anyone who isn't already knowledgeable about computers. It's pessimistic but as real as it gets.

    This is the conclusion I have come to: When it comes to computers, if a user is going to buy/use almost ANY piece of equipment or software then they need a license/permit in the same regard you need a license/permit to use a car. If you have a permit, then you can use this equipment only if a licensed user is guiding/helping you. I saw this as necessary when people would install firewalls without understanding how they work and the user would click on the "deny all" button just once and the little idiots would promptly call my helpdesk expecting one of my employees to help them get back online which, depending on the client's awareness could take several days if they didn't know what the firewall's tasktray icon, etc. looked like. This was especially common with many of the "Internet Security Suites"...ZA, NAV, MAV. Or the wireless routers that people would buy and upon hooking them up, leave it wide open so anyone could connect.

    Local libraries already give free classes on computers so I'd put more funding into the libraries to give the classes/tests. Tests could be taken first so the skilled wouldn't have to be sitting in class wasting time and money. And enforcing it should be easy enough; equip every computer, etc. with smartcard readers or biometrics. Get caught leaving your card in a system so that someone who doesn't have a license could play unattended and that person causes problems, like getting infected with a virus and spreading it, and your license is revoked in realtime and they idiot would forfeit their chance of ever getting one, so it'd keep it very honest because nobody is gonna risk losing their right to use a computer because Uncle Joe wants to browse porn sites with his pants down.

    Besides, if we make it like it's a special club that only an experienced few can join, everyone just might suddenly have the willpower to take some of those classes, just like we did with drivers' education classes in high school. If it's treated like anyone, no matter how dumb they are, can get and use one then they will not treat these machines with the respect that they deserve/demand much in the way that anyone can have a child and thusly we have lots of problems with child abuse, neglect, etc.

    Let it be known I'm against government regulation for the most part but it's typically the idiots who escalate the problems with virii, etc. I mean how many times have you heard "I got an attachment from someone and I wasn't expecting it. When I tried to open it a window popped up and then nothing. That's not why the ISP cut off my service claiming I was sending spam email is it?". Why should they be allowed to waste a company's money for "tech support" that more closely resembles idiot support? After another generation, this won't be an issue as computers will be a part of everything and most of the idiots will be dead(most of our problem clients were in their 70's) but for now..we should let this make some tax dollars that can be used to, say, put muni-wifi in cities, etc. and get these people an education or off the damn internet.

    And just so you will know how bad it can be, here's a little ditty...it really happened to me.
    I'm trying to get a woman who is using Win98 back online and the easiest solution was looking like powering all the way down, turning the cable modem off and then turning everything back on. This is how it sounded:
    "Ok, I need you to go to your start button on your desktop and power down your computer"
    2 seconds goes by.
    "It's off."
    Thinking she pressed the sleep button I said,
    "That was quick, ok, can you turn it back on for me"
    2 more seconds
    "It's back on"
    Knowing that the computer cannot possibly come OUT of sleep mode that quickly I slowly and step-by-step walk her through the shutdown procedure, I hear the logoff tune and we get her back

    --
    0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
  363. an idea for structuring the book by factoria! · · Score: 1

    Metaphor is often a great way to reach the minds of the masses. I've done a lot of teaching, and writing, and it's a great tool to have at hand. Recently I've been using the metaphor of human anatomy to break down what's in the box - cpu is the brain, motherboard's the nervous system, ram is short-term memory, hard drive is long term memory, etc. It has both good possibilities and bad gray areas as an extended metaphor - what's the OS? Your culture? (Expatriates are dual-boot systems...) But I could still see an extended metaphor as a thread through the whole book, something to hold on to in the mind when people don't have experience actually holding the components. Anyway, I don't know if that's the kind of thing you're looking for, that level of simplicity, but in my experience, people respond well to the metaphor. It has helped things click for a few friends. Try it out on your friends. Hope it helps.

    --
    //anagram is just another anagram of ragaman
  364. My 2 cents by kkl · · Score: 1

    The way i told my mom to use computer is...
    just use it whichever way u wanted, if u have important information, send it to yourself via email (i get her a gmail account, and i learn from mistake that i SHOULD know her password) dont' keep anything important in your computer. and just USE it! browse whatever site u want.

    having said that, my plan is.. if it got any adware, malware, virus, whatever ... all i am going to do is ... format/reinstall (i am actually planning to get a dummy harddrive and make an image of it. so i can just restore the image.
    and of course, all my other computer block anything from her IP, in case she got worm.
    one thing i would say is.. skip the history part... they won't care.... and i think it should be OS oriented (assuming will be M$ windows XP) just focus on ONE OS, and tell them how to boot up (or better, turn on the computer), how to hold the mouse, how to click, how to double click, click what to "go to the web", pick an email service and explain how to use icon by icon (unfortunately, in this case, i think hotmail will be better cuz you won't get question on how to get invitation from other gmail user!), how to read the content of a webpage (my mom did ask me what to do after she got to bestbuy's website! she just stare at the main page, and stucked!)... explain EVERY tiny detail that you and i might think is OBVIOUS/NATURAL!.
    good luck on the book, once u done some preminliary work, i guess we (/.er) can comment on more!
    PS: don't even bother explaining how great /. to them... Personally i am in an IC design company, which should be FILL with geeks, and i heard some ppl during lunch said /. is too geeky for them ..@~#@!#!!

  365. What to Understand about Computers? by npsimons · · Score: 1
    First and foremost, it's not a television. It requires interaction, and will lead to intellectual stimulation if used properly.


    Second, it's a tool. It's not good, bad or anything in between; it can be used for good or bad, much as any tool can.


    Third, it's different from other kinds of tools. Most tools throughout human history were created to modify matter in some way. Computers modify information. More importantly, they can take certain types of information (instructions) and follow them to become a more specialized tool.

  366. Nearly Useless by oldCoder · · Score: 1
    Teaching people about computers is a little like teaching drivers about the internals of the internal combustion engine and the transmission. They're not supposed to have to know.

    The stuff they really need to know about is how everything is just bits and the computer is mostly stupid. A friend was today amazed that a spell checker just compares text to a list of words. He thought it knew spelling. Persuade them that the box is a robot that learned how to spell. It's close enough.

    Hardware changes and is becoming increasingly hidden. Aside from the power switch and the fact that more money is needed to buy more bits, ignore it. Otherwise you'll end up teaching them the quantum mechanics of silicon transisters.

    What they need to know depends on who they are and what they are trying to do. By and large the user community should only be forced to learn to use the content tools they need to manage their email, novels, photos, videos, music, pirated films, and so on.

    Beyond that, all they need to know is that it's all a bucket of bits and it needs to be backed up. And you don't know if the backup is any good until you try to use it. Oh, and don't be scared of it. The only kind of damage you can do, if you don't set fire to it, is erase the data. That's right, 99.99% of all damage is data erasure. The bits are still in the hardware but they've been all turned to zeroes or "De-allocated" as we like to say.

    Consider the ethics of teaching them about DRM and it might be wrong to steal.

    And teach them to run the security programs that they need but aren't supposed to.

    --

    I18N == Intergalacticization
  367. Re: Basic File Management by apoc.famine · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The concept of Email might also be necessary to cover. In depth.

    I used to work woth a woman (mid-60s) who printed out every email she got, and stored them in a filing cabinet under the sender's name, in date order. Occasionally she'd call us in the tech department to ask us to help her find emails she remembered, but couldn't locate in her filing cabinet. After a couple of such calls, with the blessing of the head of IT, we sat down with her and told her that we could only help her if she was using electronic mail. Not filing cabinets.

    It took a few weeks of training, but we finally got her to understand how the search function worked in her email. She made great use of this, and was finally able to become productive, because she could figure out where things were....in her filing cabinet. We called that a success, since she stoped calling us about her "email" problems.

    --
    Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  368. History of the internet? by LarryLong · · Score: 1

    If the history of the internet comes first on your list of things to put in your book, you're probably not the person who should be writing said book. You'll have a hard time finding a customer with the patience to get past chapter one.

  369. my thoughts on topics to cover by jonwil · · Score: 1

    1.Viruses, Spyware and Trojans. What they are and why they are bad. Talk about Internet Explorer and the security holes therein and why you should consider a more secure browser like Firefox. Talk about how this stuff will make your computer slower and more likely to crash and why you dont need to buy a new computer just because it has started to feel slugish.

    2.CD autorun, how to disable it and why you would want to. Talk about the Suncomm MediaMax and First4Internet rootkits and what they can do to your computer.

    3.Spam. What it is. How to recognize it. How to avoid being suckered in.

    4.Scams (including Phishing). How to recognize a scam. How to recognize phishing scams and identity theft (i.e. "Your bank, ebay, paypal, amazon etc will never send you an email asking for your personal details, any such emails should be ignored)
    Use an analogy like this "If someone phoned you claiming to be from your bank and asking for your account number and pin number, would you just hand them over without checking further first? Probobly not. So, doing the same thing in response to emails claiming to be from your bank is the same"

    5.Identity Theft, credit card fraud & online security. When it is and isnt ok to post your personal details online. How to recognize that a site is secure vs not secure. (with the little padlock icon in the corner) Who to give passwords for sites like banks to. (i.e. no-one)

    6.Firewalls. What a firewall is. Why you would want one. How to get & install one (talk about broadband routers and firewall boxes as well as software firewalls including the built-in XP firewall)

    7.Security patches. How to install security fixes and software updates. Talk about Windows Update and how to use it to keep your system fully patched. Also mention Windows XP Service Pack 2 and why you should install it (security upgrades to IE, better firewall etc). Mention updates for anti-virus and anti-spyware programs (with tips on how to find & run the auto-updaters most of these have).

    8.Buying stuff online. Tips on making sure you get what you pay for. How to recgonize possible fraudulent auctions on sites like ebay and avoid getting ripped off. (this could cover stuff about paypal and similar sites too)

    This is my list of topics that I consider important for a non-geek to know about and which arent immediatly obvious to a non-geek. (and which could be harmfull to the computer or its user). Not sure if that is exactly what the OP is looking for but a book like this to educate the masses would be a great book to see. Something that helps novice computer users avoid or fix those things that can harm them or their computer. (there may be more topics but this is all I can think of right now :)

  370. computers for oldsters by jasprie · · Score: 1

    Why bother? THAT's the first question to answer. The answer is: because you can say whatever you might have to say to every single person alive and connected to the Internet ON THIS PLANET! Speak up! You have been around for awhile. Perhaps you have learned a few things, perhaps you remember when.... My father, age 84, acts as an editor at the Melrose Silver Stringers, thanks to a reachout effort on the part of MIT: "Any of you Seniors care to participate on the InterNet? Yeah, sure, I'll try that." I have attended editorial meetings of this group, among whom age 70 means newbie. The experience remains with me, warm, powerful, encouraging. The point here is that if the Web is made available to Seniors, they'll jump on it, and they will party, and show us disaffected adolescents, among whom I count myself at age 56, how folks can just get together and have a grand time once they have outlived their youthful excesses.

  371. Let me guess by weierstrass · · Score: 1

    Do you work in IT support?

    --
    my password really is 'stinkypants'
  372. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  373. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  374. As much or as little as they want to.. by msimm · · Score: 1

    Honestly, one thing that gets me is people getting angry because of a users level of knowlege. Its one thing if you're a computer professional.

    Not everyone is interested or has the right temperment for computers. Just like not everyone is good at music, math, mechanics, art, accounting, medicine.

    Thats why we have specialists. I'm not going to perform surgery on myself, I'm going to pay for someone else to do it. I love music but I let the musicians to the work.

    Just because someone has to sit behind a computer doesn't mean computer enthusiasts should expect anything more of them.

    Besides, how am I supposed to make a living? :)

    --
    Quack, quack.
  375. Do an animated video instead by BlueCoder · · Score: 1

    You really expect these people to read about such boring stuff? The key to actually having an impact is to make learning entertaining. So teach through a passive animated video; just don't exceed people attention spans and make it longer than an hour.

    Bits, bytes. Registers, memory, storage. Machine instructions, compiled languages, and interpreted scripts. Concepts of a file system. Kernels, operating systems, and API's. Then virus's, worms, trojans, spyware and rootkit backdoors. Second half hour should be about networking concepts. The basic concepts can be covered easily in an hour. If it goes longer than that then you've gotten too specific. Don't overwhelm, your just out to build a foundation for comprehension. Then in later lessons you would teach it all over again, and again, each time going deeper into specifics.

  376. Re: Basic File Management by forkazoo · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Chapter 4: Understanding the file system.


    To go along with this, one key point : "Yes, it really is just ones and zeroes"

    I think that a lot of people have conceptual issues when trying to accept that it is all just information. People I know are completely floored when they learn that they can do the same things to any JPEG. Whether they downloaded it from a web page on the internet, or scanned it, or got it in an email, or shot it on a digicam, etc. They are somehow convinced that the computer thinks it is something completely different, depending on where it came from. My friend recently got a scanner after having the photo developer give him a CD of JPEG's. He was convinced that emailing the JPEG's from his scanner would be a completely different process than emailing JPEG's from a CD.

    Once you can convince people how simple it really is, how stupid the computer really is, how all the information is in a file, and all the files are just information, then you have come a *loooong* way in improving their ability to interact with the computer.

    My dad seems basically unable to really grasp this. It comes up in sort of odd places, and catches me compoletely off guard in conversations. It really doesn't occur to me to make a distinction between a video file I captured from my TV card, or downloaded, or rendered, etc. The fact that I can use the same video player utility to play BBC programs as I use for ones I recorded here in Colorado is stunning to him. It just sort of won't fully integrate in his mind.
  377. I need a few copies! by geoffaus · · Score: 1

    Please let me know when this book is available as I think most of my family needs this. E.g. my father has been using computers about as long as i have but still has problems with the whole copy/paste process. Good luck Geoff.

    --
    As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a reference to Godwin's Law approaches 1
    1. Re:I need a few copies! by datamichael · · Score: 1

      Geoff,

      Consider getting your father a copy of my just published book "Computer Secrets I Taught My Mom". It's available for US$18 from www.smartguypress.com, amazon, barnes&noble or your favorite retailer.

      Best of luck!
      Michael Shannon

      --
      Author "Computer Secrets I Taught My Mom"
  378. Teach personal responsibility, if possible... by KC7GR · · Score: 1

    Others have already (accurately) pointed out that you're setting a Herculean task for yourself, and I wish you the best possible fortune in your efforts.

    With that said: Something I've noticed by its absence in the 'Computers for Beginners' books that I've looked at is, for lack of a better term, encouraging the reader to excercise common sense (and SPECIFYING what some of those common-sense items consist of), as well as encouraging 'healthy' paranoia.

    As one example: Any experienced computer geek knows that it's just Good Common Sense to choose a hard-to-guess password that has nothing to do with a pet's name, a relative's birthdate, or any other easily-guessable info. While many beginners books say to do this, they don't say why in terms that strike home with the reader.

    EXPLAIN why! Explain that the world at large (including the Internet) is indeed a place where Bad Things WILL happen to you if you let them and that, contrary to what they may believe, there exist miscreants who are indeed "out to get" anyone that they can in any way that they can.

    More specifically: Explain that doing things like picking a tough-to-guess password, enabling security on a wireless access point or router, or not clicking on file attachments on first impulse, is no different from locking your house when you leave or locking your car when it's parked in public areas and you're not going to be in it.

    In other words, you should emphasize that properly using a computer and the Internet is simply an extension of taking and accepting FULL RESPONSIBILITY for one's own actions.

    This includes taking responsibility for knowing that anything with a power cord on it needs to be plugged in to an active power outlet to work, knowing that power strips don't work when they're plugged into themselves, and that NOTHING works during a power outage (unless you're tied in to a UPS with a battery bank the size of the local Wal-Mart, or a backup generator).

    That responsibility is, I think, the most critical lesson that should be taught. It's also going to be the toughest to drive home. Given our current culture, you'd probably have an easier time teaching your readers quantum physics!

    I still think there's hope, though, for those who "get it." With that in mind, please try to install at least SOME sense of this in your readers. If they can adjust their mindset along those lines, the rest will come much more easily.

    Happy typing.

    --

    Bruce Lane, KC7GR,

    Blue Feather Technologies

  379. Just a couple of things: by Bri4Lo · · Score: 1

    My father is a Dr. of sorts, however he cannot grasp many things within a personal computer, but I try to influence him that it's impossible to understand everything, so concentrate on what matters. Some things are not meant to be understood inherantly, and that's OK with us. You do not have to understand exactly how everything works, just as long as you can comprehend why it's not working and what technologies it relies on to make it work.

  380. Re: Basic File Management (give 'em Pages, then) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah, please no! I've been using computers since I was 6 or 7... I'm 24 now. Personally, I've always felt that files and folders were intuitive. Even when I was a kid, it didn't take much for me to figure it out. (To clarify, few people would label me as a "geek", I've just always used a computer.)

    I think there's a difference between simplifying software and dumbing it down. If we program for the lowest common denominator we're going to end up with junk. We could do the same with cars... Should cars prompt you before you turn on your turn signal? or warn you that using anything other than "Premium Unleaded" is a bad idea when you fill up with gas? Maybe if it's raining hard they should just force you to drive 20.

    I see more and more effort put into catering to people that don't know or understand things. Have any of you ever used or seen any software designed for small kids? Imagine your entire OS being designed like that. It would be AWFUL. Simplification/dumbing down isn't the answer. I think educating people (like this guy is trying to) is a better solution... You can't tell everyone to use only addition just because some people can't figure out division.

    well, that's my .02

    -John

  381. Fix the history by spitzak · · Score: 1

    The history of computers is not "there were punch cards, and then Bill Gates (or Steve Jobs) invented Windows and we had modern computers".

    Computer history should start with the transistorized computer, or even later, and explain that they really work almost the same as the first electronic machines, just much much larger and faster. Too many people way underestimate how old things are. Too many people do not realize that people were typing to computers and looking at graphical output on screens in the 1950s! I am shocked at how many Slashdot posters do not beloieve computers existed before 1990, including Microsoft fanboys who do not even seem to remember that Bill Gates was writing software for hobbyist computers. Please explain that everything we use today was invented before 1990, and that the computers and internet we use today was completley predictable in 1970 or earlier.

    Explain that computers and software are not perfect gifts from the gods, that they are compromises and design mistakes, like cars would be if they were forced to look exactly like Model-T's because otherwise they would not work on the highways built for Model-T.s. Explain that the true genius today in the current systems is in figuring out innovative ways to remain compatable with 50 years of mistakes, and still make it better and useful. Explain that making the software "better" also means making it "different", unless you work REALLY HARD!

    Explain that a search that does not find anything will take at least as long, and probably longer, than a search that does find something. Try to explain why. People seem to lack insight that many of us consider completly obvious, which is really why they cannot understand your instructions on how to use a computer.

  382. Re: Basic File Management (give 'em Pages, then) by sconeu · · Score: 1

    My parents had no concept of file extensions.

    All their documents are {BASENAME}.PEN or {THIS}.ME or whatever. They were/and-still-are using WP6 for Windows, which let you ignore extensions. Why did they use WP6? It came with their first PC back in '95 and they were used to it, so my dad installed it on new machines when they got them.

    Now my dad has passed away, and finding docs and figuring out what they are for my mom is a royal PITA.

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  383. Lots of entirely wrong suggestions here by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    Lots of stuff about spyware and backup and such. Pointless. All that is expert stuff from this perspective.

    Be shure to teach the following:

    1.) Computers are more a new cultural technique rather than just typewriters that can make nice pictures and show video. They are -and this is the most important thing EVERYBODY needs to understand before they do anything else - they are devices that automate tasks that only humans can understand. They are - for the lack of better explaination - extremly primitive thinking devices.

    2.) Surfing the net and editing files on a Computer in an effective manner is like playing Beethovens Moonshine Sonata on the Piano. AND YOU CAN NOT,NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WANT TO, PLAY THE MOONSHINE SONATA WITHOUT PRACTICING CORDS AND SCALES FIRST!

    YOU HAVE TO LEARN AND UNDERSTAND THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THE INNER WORKINGS OF A COMPUTER AND ITS USES BEFORE YOU CAN USE IT IN AN EFFECTIVE MANNER!


    Be shure to repeat that sentence something like 10 times in the first chapter.

    3.) A list of things then following:
    ->Automating mind tasks - the history of computers (a short overview)
    ->Modern Micro Computers (a super-short overview).
    ->Volatile (Chips) and non-volatile (HDD) memory 101.
    ->Operating Systems - The programm that runs programms and why such a thing is practical. The CPU and it's friends on the motherboard.
    ->The File systems and their metaphors and what's cool about file systems. The HDD and it's friends in the opto-drives and USB sticks.

    ->Putting stuff in computers and getting stuff out, brief mentioning of the CLI.
    ->The modern GUIs and their metaphors and why they are a good thing.

    ->The name of the keys on the keyboard and how they are used.
    ->How the different keys on the keyboard are called and what they do.
    ->How to do different things on a computer by pressing different keys on a keyboard of a computer.
    ->The hold-down keys and how they influence the function of other keys.
    ->Why some keys (mostly hold-down keys) are to be found more than once on a keyboard and how that indicates their importance and the suggested frequency of their usage.

    ->The concept of the clipboard.
    ->Computers are really good at copying and pasting stuff.
    ->Computers where built to copy and paste stuff.
    ->How copy and paste works on all GUI operating systems since the mid-80s.
    ->How to use your keyboard and that invisible thing callled clipboard to COPY AND PASTE stuff.

    ->Keyboard key naming and functions, refreshment chapter.

    ->The concept of focus in modern GUIs.
    ->There is a thing called focus and you have to know where it is at all times and how it got there and how you can move the focus of you input.

    ->Thourough keyboard GUI and Edit Widget navigation chapter. Explain Selection, deleting, cutting and refresh copy and paste. Explain cursor navigation, the cursor keys, back and forth with cursor keys, up and down with cursor keys, selecting with shift and so on.

    ->Modern Mouse navigation and CUAS (Common User Access Standards)
    ->What the mouse cursor symbols mean.
    ->There is more than one way to do it, find your style (time for authors personal advice)

    ->The concept of focus, refreshment chapter.

    ->Modern programming languages (brief overview), some simple exaple of a computer programm that everyone can relate to (simple find and replace in a text in Python, Ruby or something)

    ->Computer Networks, the internet and the web.

    ->Computer File system refreshment chapter with additional network concepts.

    ->Ready made software, closed and open source software (brief summary), cool things computers can do for you today.

    ->The computer as a computer.
    ->The computer as a communication device.
    ->The computer as a toy.
    ->The difference of all three above, the significance of number 1 and why all three are cool.

    ->Authors

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  384. Re: What Should People Know About Computers? by ohiojoe88 · · Score: 1

    The thing is, all of this information is easily and widely available on the Internet. For free. N otrip to the bookstore/library required. What might be more beneficial is to publish and revise every year or so a book of links to helpful sites (TheElderGeek, Annoyances.org, etc.)

  385. The various computer metaphors were invented by czmax · · Score: 1


    I've found that non-computer poeple think they _should_ automatically know and understand the computer. They feel stupid and left out and maybe a bit embarrassed that they don't.

    I think explaining that the various metaphors ("desktop", "file folder", "trashcan" etc) were made up helps. The naive user can learn early on that if something doesn't makes sense it might not be their fault. This is a logical move towards getting people to experiment. They discover which metaphors the computer programmer was using, and experiment to find out how well the programmer succeeded in their implementation.

    To borrow an example from the mac world sometimes the trashcan works to delete something and sometimes it doesn't. How is somebody to know which it is? You gotta try! Creating some junk, deleting it. Experimenting etc is a totally appropriate thing to do.

    And what you're doing is not "being dumb" but rather figuring out what the orignal programmer was thinking. This helps peopel relax a little bit about their failures.

  386. Another analogy by yashinka · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would guess 99% of all people don't know the difference between memory and a harddrive. I once gave a speech about the basics of computer hardware and I found this analogy useful (although somewhat limited).

    Imagine you are going to solve a problem and you have no long term memory. You have only a notebook, a calculator and a library.

    - The CPU is like your mind and calculator: Fast enough for simple problems but you can't do everything in your head.
    - The Cache is your short term memory. You don't need to reread things in the front of your notebook over and over.
    - The Memory is like your notebook. You can look through it fairly quickly but it can only hold so much.
    - The harddrive is the library. It holds vast amounts of information but takes a long time to find what you need. Once you find it you can photocopy things and add them to your notebook. If your notebook is full you will throw away old papers.

    You can expand on this analogy to say that some books hold information while others hold instructions and references to other books.

    --
    "Haven't you ever heard of the Emancipation Proclaimation?"
    "I don't listen to Hip-Hop!"
    1. Re:Another analogy by Tired_Blood · · Score: 1

      yashinka (891973): I would guess 99% of all people don't know the difference between memory and a harddrive.

      It should be noted that, in most cases, they are virtually the same. :)

      --
      This is not my sig.
  387. Arrange By Daily Tasks by Deedly · · Score: 1

    Start from the information that is important to the user about how the computer works and then move on to describe the individual tasks that the user does on a day to day basis.

    I would start with a basic description of the bare bones system and what each part means in very general terms (The video card tells the monitor what to display, keyboard allows you to input information that your computer can use, etc.) and leave them at these simple explanations until later chapters where each part is discussed in a bit more detail. Also talk about the structure of inputs and outputs and how they relate to the rest of the computer (in simple terms).

    I have to agree with other posters that most basic users who are simply curious don't want to know everything, just enough to get a general understanding. If they want to know more they can find out on their own or you can put the greater detail in later chapters and refference them in the basic descriptions.

    After talking about the basic system I would move into individual tasks within the computer and a general idea of how it works. Everything from word processing to browsing the internet and playing a 3d game. Organizing the information in terms of common everyday tasks keeps the reader interested because explaining by concept is far less important to a basic user than explaining the things they do with a computer one by one. For example, no non-nerd wants to read 5 chapters called "NTFS and FAT32 File Structure" "3D Rendering" "Video Codecs" "Text Encoding" and "TCP/IP Protocol" (Although I admit those sound rather interesting to me ^_^) but they would easily catch on to "Saving Information" "3D Gaming" "Watching Movies" "Word Processing" and "Surfing the Internet" which would contain all the same information in a different "How ______ works" sort of format.

  388. Click by blueadept1 · · Score: 1

    The browser is different from the OS. You don't have to double click links in a web browser. God. It pisses me off when my parents do that.

  389. One common mistake in books... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is to write a book on using an office suite or about esoteric parts of the OS rather than actually introduce the concept of a computer to newbies. For lack of a better analogy, think of a baby, fresh to the world. Now try to explain physics to this baby. Too often the instruction gets bogged down with calculating the trajectory of a ball or using particular tools to get common jobs done, rather than explaining the underlying forces and how they interact. If the former is done, you get people who can do a narrow set of tasks rather well. With the latter, the person is equipped to observe and learn for him/herself as new and unforseen situations arise.

  390. There are really two books here by rtobyr · · Score: 1

    There are two distinct groups of people you could be addressing this book at: 1. My grandma, who doesn't understand the difference between HD and RAM, or that I can't use VNC to fix her computer if her Internet is broken. 2. My boss, who wants to spend 30 minutes explaining to me why he thinks his problem is having a full HD or needing a defrag when really: the 10Mbit hub he bought for using desktop & laptop at the office is slowing his access to the share drive.

  391. What Should People Understand About Computers? by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    To press any damn button you want, alter any setting you want, and that I only charge $20 an hour.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  392. Women don't understand women any better than men by orichter · · Score: 1

    Anyone that thinks women understand women any better than men do, hasn't spent much time around women. The fact is that women are incomprehensible by either men or women. I've as much as been told this by my wife. The only difference between men and women in this regard is that men seem to think that you should be able to understand a woman, women don't think this. It's like a man and a woman are going on a walk, and the man says, "Where are we going?" The woman says, "For a walk". The man says, "But where are we walking to?" And the woman says, "We are just walking". Understanding a woman is like getting to the destination, but with a woman, there is no destination. There is just the walk.

    Stick that in your new age pipe and smoke it :)

  393. from a serviceman's perspective by v1 · · Score: 1

    Things that continue to surprise me about Joe Computer User:

    - calling the monitor the computer
    - calling the computer the hard drive
    - but I didn't drop it (said about the powerbook with dents on all 8 corners)
    - but I didn't spill anything on it (said about the ibook that reeeeked of beer)
    - yes you have to plug in the laptop occasionally or it will keep shutting off like that
    - it says I need to restart my computer. what should I do? ("toss computer out of window?")
    - backups? no. what do you mean it's all gone?
    - but I could buy a new machine cheaper than fix this one ("yes, I was getting to that")
    - my printer isn't working. here's my computer. (OR here's my printer)
    - my mouse isn't working. here's my mouse. (OR here's my computer)
    - my monitor isn't working. here's my monitor.
    - I don't know where those are. Do you REALLY need the disks to reinstall?
    - my internet isn't working (which "internet"? almost always www or email client is broken)
    - yes it has wireless internet, and no you cannot just take it home and use it. buy a wap and get a cable modem.
    - everytime I try to use my phone I get kicked off the internet (two variations, dialup and 900mhz cordless+wifi)
    - everytime I leave the computer alone for awhile I come back and the computer is off. (I usually have to hit the power button twice to start it back up again)
    - just because it fits doesn't mean it belongs there. now remove the phone cord from the ethernet port and plug it into the jack with the picture of the telephone above it.
    - yes you can use the windows mouse on your mac
    - yes that was good of you to unplug power during the storm, but you really should work on the phone cord first.
    - that'll happen whenever the rest of your house loses power. can I interest you in a UPS?
    - smoke is not a good sign (nor is melting plastic)
    - call me back when you get home and are in front of your computer
    - have your friend call me to discuss their computer problem
    - eject the floppy and restart again.

    If I hadn't heard it at least three times it didn't make the list. Honorable mentions for less than three hits follow:

    - that is not a cup holder (yes, that really does happen)
    - don't put CDs in your (5.25") floppy drive. yes I know they fit, just don't. And if you do, don't try to close the door.
    - when shopping online, don't insert your credit card into the CD ROM drive
    - I'm selling this computer, can you erase the memory?
    - but my master's thesis was on there... (ouch!)
    - just press the space bar (you KNOW what this was the answer to)

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:from a serviceman's perspective by narcc · · Score: 1
      - everytime I try to use my phone I get kicked off the internet (two variations, dialup and 900mhz cordless+wifi)


      A 900mhz cordless phone won't interfere with wifi (802.11b/g) -- however a 2.4ghz phone will.
    2. Re:from a serviceman's perspective by teh_Largo · · Score: 1

      On this note I think a great thing to add as a centerfold to the book would be, in so many words, an "Idiot's Checklist to Common Computer Problems." It could have a simple three column chart that had the problem in column 'A', the possible causer in column 'B', and what the person should do about it in column 'C'. Example: Column A could say "computer's making a loud screeching sound," followed by column B's "Probably a case fan that needs to be replaced," proceeded by column C's "order a case fan from one of the useful hardware sites listed below and see page 73 for an explanation on how to replace your case fan."

  394. Good book by Penzias by xactuary · · Score: 1
    This book strikes me as an excellent primer on the underpinnings of computation.

    Ideas and Information, by Arno Penzias

    http://www.bell-labs.com/user/apenzias/books.html/

    --
    Say hello to my little sig.
  395. Chapter 1 by killermookie · · Score: 1

    OMGWTFBBQPWNED!

  396. Don't quit your day job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My mother cannot go to the bookstore and pick up a book that will make her understand the strange language that we IT people speak, or why her computer would be susceptible to a virus. So, I intend to write such a book.

    Right. Nobody has ever been able to write such a book before, and you're just the person for the job. Spare me, you arrogant twit.

  397. Re: Basic File Management by renehollan · · Score: 1
    then receiving user MUST connect to server

    I sink my own email, thankyouverymuch ( *points to TCP port 25 on his mail server* ).

    There's something wrong with a world where the flesh-and-blood mailman delivers mail to a wholely insecure metal box outside my home, but my computer has to "get" mail from the electonic equivalent of a P.O. Box.

    No, I won't relay your spam.

    IMNSHO, when you buy a house it should come with a routable /28 subnet, at least.

    --
    You could've hired me.
  398. What's a file? by srobert · · Score: 1

    I don't work in I.S. but somehow, among family and friends, I've become a goto guy for a computer malfunction. (Maybe it's because my machines are running slackware and linux from scratch). Questions I get in response to my attempts to diagnose problems might give some insight.

      Problem: Lost my paper, photo, etc.
      Me: "What was the name of the file and where were you storing it?"
      Them: "I don't know the name. It was stored in my computer"
      (note: that wasn't "My Computer").
      Me: "OK, Open up a file browser and let's look for it."
      Them: "What's a file browser?"
      Me after getting them to open windows explorer: "What type of file was it? A jpeg, Gif, bmp, tiff?"
      Them: "I don't know. It was a picture."

      Problem: Lost email.
      Me: "Was the email stored on your computer or on the server."
      Them: "I don't know. I opened up my infolder and it's gone. "
      Me: "Is the 'infolder' something you click on in a web browser?"
      Them: "What's a web browser?"

      Attempting to find out what type of hardware they have.
      Me: "How much RAM or memory does your computer have."
      Them: "20 Gigabytes"
      Me: "I think that's probably hard drive space. I mean working memory, RAM."
      Them: "I don't know. It's a DELL."
      Me: "Do you have any Paperwork that came with the computer?"
      Them: "I think it's in the garage in a box behind the water heater."

      Don't get me started on trying to find out if they have the necessary drivers.

      What this is telling me is that, somehow, people are using computers without understanding basics like file types, and file systems, or whether the information they are viewing resides on their own hard drive or on the internet. It amazes me that they manage to get as much from their computers and the internet as they do without comprehending these basics. I think the mistake is allowing them to use the computer at all without having just a few of these ideas under their belt. You don't allow someone to drive without knowing that they might have to put gas and oil into the vehicle or that they must stop at red lights.

  399. Re:What kind of questions are you so sick of answe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tell her that her hard disk is sort of like a file cabinet. Inside a file cabinet are lots of pieces of paper, perhaps arranged in folders, which contain all of her records and things. A hard disk contains all of her electronic records and things -- "files" -- in much the same way. Folders can be used to subdivide and organize everything, and the drive can be "partitioned" or split into several chunks in the same way a file cabinet can have several drawers. Programs are just special files that have instructions in them that tell the computer how to do things.
      Of course, in order to do anything with those files, you have to take them out of the cabinet, which is where RAM, or memory, comes in. That's sort of like your table. The larger the table, the more pieces of paper you can lay out side-by-side. Likewise, the more memory your computer has, the more files (and programs, which are a kind of file, remember) you can have open at the same time.
      Once this metaphor is in place, the nature of files becomes much clearer.

  400. You want to give them a basic understanding... by Zantetsuken · · Score: 1

    not the entire history of computers and how they work internally - well, enough of the basic internals so they dont get screwed over on their next purchase - "a processor is the main brains of a computer, the higher the speed, generally means a better computer" and the different classes of processors, such as the difference between a celeron or sempron and a pentium 4 or athlon. Like I said, just enough to keep em from gettin screwed over - any more than that and they may think its an "advanced book".

    That said, the rest of it should be pretty much as you said, describing what spyware is and why they shouldnt disable anti-spyware disable their anti-spyware just because they dont like how it pops up with a warning that is trying to protect them while they are looking through crappy fan-sites of their favorite 60's rock bands (not that the band would be crap, just most fansites usually are) with a crap host that has no morals as to loading spyware on a surfer's comp.

  401. "Save to disk" confusion by hereisnowhy · · Score: 1

    When my mom gets a window asking her to "save this file to disk" she thinks it means a floppy disk.

  402. I've got a book idea help me! by tf23 · · Score: 1

    Hey guys! I've got a book idea. Help me come up with content for it! ;)

    history of the Internet

    Most computer users couldn't give damn about that.

    how computers talk to each other

    Most computer users don't care how it works just that it does.

    what a hard drive does

    Again, most computer users don't care. They don't want to care. All they want to know is there "stuff" is on the computer "where they can find it". Where exactly? Doesn't matter to them. Just so they know where it is.

  403. what people need to know by odin24seven · · Score: 1

    the hardest part for the lamer is the terms that we use. once thay understant that then thay will figerit out. thats what I think.

  404. Inclusions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should most definitely including something about internet culture, and how its possible for people to band together and like/love eachother. This seems to be a very foreign concept.

  405. Blue smoke - the essential component by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 1
    People need to understand that computers are magical boxes that run on white smoke and fairy dust. Never, ever open your computer, or even risk hooking new devices up to it; you might cause the spell to fail. Understanding how it works is of course beyond any normal mortal;
    It's blue smoke not white. Harware runs on blue smoke because they clearly stop working if you ever let the blue smoke out. What's so complex about that?
    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  406. my $.03 USD by Toog · · Score: 1

    1) computers are always pointing to things; 2) if you are asked to create a file, you'll need to know where it is at least once; 3) computers should never have been called computers. If they had called toasters computers when they first came out, then people would still be having problems making toast.

  407. Re: Basic File Management by Kuros_overkill · · Score: 1

    Acctual conversation between me and a legal secritary:


    Her: What is the difference between a file and a folder.
    Me: Your a secritary, right.
    Her: Yes.
    Me: *goes over to file cabinate, takes out folder, takes file out of folder* THis is a file *puts file back in folder* this is a folder. Her: I mean on the computer.
    Me: Same thing.
    Her: Hu?, oh, wait (think dumb blond here), how do I tell the difference between them.
    Me: The little yellow one, that looks like a folder.
    Her: yes
    Me: That is a folder. Everything in it is a file.
    Her: This is hard (crying) Don't be mean to me.
    (I just walked away)

  408. Think About your audience by harryman100 · · Score: 1

    My mother cannot go to the bookstore and pick up a book that will make her understand the strange language that we IT people speak, or why her computer would be susceptible to a virus. So, I intend to write such a book.

    You say the book is aimed at people like you're mother, why don't you spend a weekend/week/month/whatever teaching her about computers (assuming she wants to - if not find someone who wants to). Make notes about the type of questions she asks you, what topics she finds easy to understand, what she finds most challenging, maybe even record your sessions so that you can so you can analyse it retrospectively.

    I recently spent some time explaining networking and the internet to my mum, she uses computers daily and did a Post-degree computing course, and used to write software herself (back in the days of computers being room-sized) however, as that was very much pre-networking, I had to start from square 1. It was very different explaining it to someone who was actually quite interested in understanding the details of how it all works - compared with teaching people who need to know (I used to support/train people to use web-based CMS systems, and many related tools for a large company). Don't be afraid to use Jargon, make sure it's explained on it's first use (possibly even it's first use in each chapter if the book likely to be read unsequentially) and make sure there is a very good glossary (with page numbers where the concept/background is explained in more details). Don't be afraid to use a word, and then explain what it means afterwards. (This sounds strange, but giving someone a context the word will be used in before a definition, will get people thinking about it more, and help with the understanding of the concept.

    I've contemplated offering training on this topic before, encouraging people to understand computers, but still being at university, I spend enough time explaining things to my fellow students/family/friends/etc... I'd rather just stick to my own education at the moment. Maybe when I'm unemployed later in life

    Don't be afraid of examples! Examples that get people using their computers are very good. Get people to open a command prompt (or Terminal for Mac users - I assume you're not aiming at linux-heads!) explain how you can use it to tell the computer to do something (run a command), then you could use it to explain a bit about networking, get them to do "ping www.somehost.net", explain how it looks up the IP address, explain what some of the numbers mean, and what their significance is. If you do this properly, and explain it clearly, people will gain in confidence (and consequently like your book) if they can understand something cryptic very quickly (ping output is very cryptic if you've never seen it before!)

    A few other people have posted about users not needing to know about the workings of a computer. Keeping these things hidden from them is for their own good - while on some level this is true, I think that this line of thinking breeds its own problems. Lack of understanding causes curious people to investigate. To go poking around on their hard-drive and deleting system files, configuring applicaitions, then not knowing how to get it back the way they had. It breeds the frame of mind which mean people are only able to use certain programs. If people have a better understanding of what it is they are doing, they're more likely to go exploring in the places where it is GOOD to explore. Such as exploring features of the program they are currently using - exploring options which could help them configure the computer in better/more productive ways. You're probably an OSS advocate (you read slashdot -it's a given), want people to start using firefox/other OSS app? Who's going to do that if the message they're constantly given from the geeks of the world, is "Don't touch that - you don't know what you're doing". Yes it runs the risk of people getting too happy go lucky with the things that they install, collecting crap on their compu

    --
    .sigs are for losers
  409. IT and Medicine ? by morcego · · Score: 1

    People should treat IT just like they treat the medical science.
    If you have a mild headache, you just take an aspirin. However, if you have a somewhat more serious simptom(sic?), you go to a doctor. Just because you know how to pop open a case of aspirin you don't fool yourself that you know medicine.

    On IT, people think that just because they can move the mouse around, they know computers. And that is where all the problem comes from.

    With that in mind, I find your proposed book a VERY serious problem. It will give people the flawed idea that by reading your book they know computers. There are other books like that around.

    I know you have the best intentions possible, but please don't do it. Unless you are doing it just for the money. In that case, there is nothing I can say. But, then again, if that was the case, you would not be asking around here, would you ?

    --
    morcego
    1. Re:IT and Medicine ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah good trick. Discourage this person. steal the idea. Profit!

  410. But they do 'break' things all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting. I know that it is really hard to actually break a computer, but lots of folks with grandparent level knowledge can do all kinds of things that will 'break' the system as far as they're concerned.

    Example: Grandparent has difficulty with mouse operation (assume arthritis etc.). Goes to start favorite word processor, accidentally clicks and drags a chunk of the start menu onto the desktop.

    Now assuming that grandma has no idea what she's just done, or that programs can be started from the desktop, she's just 'broken' her computer.

    There are countless examples of this - the movable start bar, the hidable start bar, drag 'n drop in the start menu, customizable menus in , clearing the history in the web browser, Firefox's habit of creating a new profile if the old profile is locked, etc. etc. etc.

    I suspect that there might be something to be said for being able to flip a system into 'grandma' mode: all GUI parameters are locked, recent documents cannot be cleared, and the only thing you can change is the contents of $MyDocuments, which is automatically backed up every reboot.

    Maybe you could use kiosk mode to do this - I haven't spent enough time trying to keep 31337 teenage brats out of a deptartment store wedding registry computer.

  411. make sure your book by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    has an entry on PEBCAK

    or PEBKAC, as the case may be

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  412. the brain changes by r00t · · Score: 1

    Brain changes occur as we age. It is normal to mostly stop learning.

    Young creatures are meant to learn. Old creatures are meant to breed and support offspring, using behaviors that are known to work.

    Apes in general, and humans especially, are less this way than typical critters. Our learning shuts down later in life, and doesn't shut down as completely. Still, learning goes against the way the older brain is meant to work.

    It's all supposed to be this way. Curiosity can be a hindrance when you need to get stuff done.

    1. Re:the brain changes by finkployd · · Score: 1

      Apes in general, and humans especially, are less this way than typical critters. Our learning shuts down later in life, and doesn't shut down as completely. Still, learning goes against the way the older brain is meant to work.

      I certainly find it harder to learn new things now than when I was young, but I still derive enjoyment out of it. I also derive enjoyment out of totally mindless entertainment least anyone think I am a cultural elitist, anti-TV type of person. I just don't understand people who not only decide they are done learning at a certain point, but become angry and bitter that society, technology, etc. move on and they have to keep learning to play along.

      Finkployd

    2. Re:the brain changes by r00t · · Score: 1

      Well, think of the tribal environment we come from. Good tech advances come slowly. The village elders obviously survived their own youth, and thus have things figured out pretty well. It is good that they resist change. Some young risk-taker might decide that it is fine to eat random wild mushrooms and neglect to plant crops.

      In the tribal environment, it would be good for the elders to become angry and bitter about change. The change is probably bad, and maybe even fatal.

      It will be a long time before we evolve to generally have different behavior.

  413. Since there are no serious examples thus far by Burz · · Score: 1

    I'll have a crack at a basic outline of what should be taught to newbies:

    1. Basic hardware functions (RAM, HD, CD, CPU, keyb, mouse, monitor, etc.)

    2. Basic logic: The CPU uses digital instructions to manipulate digital information. Processing occurs in volatile RAM. Describe system units (bits, bytes, K/M/GB).

    3. Filesystem on HD: heirarchy, paths and supported operations (create, copy, move, del, open, close). Folders vs files, and examples of file formats (executables, different document types). HD is nonvolatile, like a file cabinet.

    4. Using mouse and keyboard. Using the GUI (windows, icons, menus, etc.) to do a few basic tasks like run programs, browse and handle files, switch between programs.

    5. Everything that I missed (like the cupholder)!

    All told, it should be teachable to mildly-interested people within an afternoon.

  414. Slightly OT: An Apple experience (with iPhoto) by atrocious+cowpat · · Score: 1

    Since I support my mother's computer she always had what I had -- first a WinPC, then a Mac. She mostly works with text and spreadsheets, and, having come to computers late in her life (and having no geek-strain whatsoever in her personality) she's always had problems with "the computer".

    It got a little better after I switched her to Mac OS X --- a system I hated at first because I couldn't figure out where all my beloves quirks, hacks etc. (that I knew from OS9) went. She took to it like a duck to water.

    Last year she started bugging me about a digital camera... she really really wanted one. So (nice kid that I am) started to research the possibilities... Camera was a no-brainer (CANON), but how on earth would I get her to actually transfer, view and manage the pics on a computer?

    I had a look at iPhoto and it was hate at first sight. Remember: I'm a Graphic Designer, I can operate Photoshop almost blindfolded. Where are all my options? Why am I forced to store/order pictures in a certain way? I had a look at other programs... Photoshop LE (or whatsitscalled) etc... Finally I gave in, and we presented her with a shiny new CANON and I promised to sit in with her as long as it would take to come to terms with iPhoto (my estimate: 2-3 weeks, and constant phone-support from there on).

    I was wrong. Not only wrong, but w-r-o-n-g. Remember duck/water? Same here. We plugged her CANON into her iBook for the first time, iPhoto starts, I explain the basics --- and that was it. She was able to use a program (actually: a file-managing-concept) within minutes.

    All those Photoshop-features I use every day? She doesn't need them - doesn't even miss them. Crop? Check. Red-Eye-Reduction? Check. Print the picture in [whatever] size/quality? Check. Find that picture from [whenwasitagain]? Check. Anything else? Missing -- and a good thing, too: less confusion.

    Is iPhoto the panacea to parental digital photography? Of course not. She uses iPhoto 2.x on a G4/400/768 MB RAM and an iBook/G3/500/ 300something RAM (both with Mac OS X 10.4) --- with a library of over 1800 pictures iPhoto is starting to behave rather badly (slow, even a few crashes). So soon we'll have to get her a newer version of iPhoto, and (preferably) a new Mac. Also she still makes mistakes.

    But still... whatever those people in cupertino were smoking when they designed the user-workflow of iPhoto --- it must have been some righteous stuff. Getting my (beloved, albeit bloody boneheaded) mother to understand (and productively use) a piece of software she's never seen before within minutes is a feat I never believed possible.

    --
    sig? Oh, that sig...
  415. The computer is an extension of your brain! by solune · · Score: 1

    The subject says it all. It is a philosophical point I've been trying to make to my friends, family and all who listen.

    Let me put it in context: I work with tile for a living. I install ceramic tile. I use tools. I can modify those tools if I have to and the company doesn't get pissed. Marshaltown (one of the largest trowel manufacturers) does not make me sign a EULA. My hand tool manufacturers could care less about what I do with a tool after I buy it, so long as I don't re-sell them pretending I'm an official representitive of their company. I can sell knock-offs, but not under the same name. I can call a notch trowel I make Petertown trowels, and probably get away with it.

    The tools I use are an extension of my hand. As with most people that use tools for a living, I'm loathe to lend them out lest the get damaged, lost, stolen or otherwise abused.

    The computer is an extension of my mind. The implication I want people to understand is would you let just anyone into your mind? Is it right that you buy a computer but the likes of Sony, MS, Uncle sam, ETC feel it is their right to go rooting through your toolbox--which just so happens to have personal items therein?

    Also, along the same vein, I want people to know if they let the IP laws run as amok as they are now there will be nothing for their children to do to earn money. The way everything is getting patented now if Junior wants to write a better browser he runs the risk of having all his work taken because he had the same inclination of a previous designer in algorithmic execution. Is this right?

    I am tired, and I probably articulated my point poorly. The argument could be made that my hand tools are an extension of my brain.

    What I feel needs to get across is the internet connected computer, unlike previous tools, has the capacity to reveal more of the mind of the user--shadows and all--than any other device. How we deal with that as a society now will have implications far into the future that just aren't being discussed.

  416. computer license by __aabgfe356 · · Score: 1

    Really, people should have to have a license to use a computer, one that expries every three years and a base concepts test will be given to renew the thing. That way, when people who claim to be in IT and call me up at the helpdesk i'm on with a problem, they can properly relay the correct information and when i say they need to copy a file or change their printer settings they dont aks me how to do it! and no, the license would not automatically be assigned to those with an MSCE

  417. Until she can't learn by herself.. by hwk_br · · Score: 1

    I say it as a Computers Teacher: What a hell is a file (all types: regular file, program file, directory or folder, pipes, sockets, devices, etc) and different file extensions What is the bloody difference between software, hardware, program, plug-ins How the system works in general Some history to eliminate the missing "why's" Whit this information any user must be capable finding documents and understand books, or he/she is not suitable at all to have a computer. \m/

    --
    \m/
  418. duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    me: so blah blah blah and blah blah blah ... the internet ... blah blah
    user: so, is it on?
    me: is what on?
    user: the internet
    me: is the internet on? Ah yes ma'am, it's on.

  419. The answer is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...how to program a computer. Not how to use Firefox or MS Word. Simple.

  420. Re: Basic File Management by monsterlemon · · Score: 1

    Yep. It's amazing how far some people get with computers without understanding what a folder *cough* I mean directory is.

    I remember explaining the concept of a folder to a user once, and being amazed at what an instant and massive difference it made to them.

    I still find it hard to imagine what it must be like trying to use a typical windowing GUI without understanding what a folder is.

    The moral of this story is "it's very easy to overestimate how much a user understands" (and waste a lot of effort trying to teach them things when they don't have solid foundations).

  421. its on the net, it must me true by wesw02 · · Score: 0

    "JUST BECAUSE ITS ON THE INTERNET, DOESN'T MEAN ITS TRUE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    that is the exact quote that I would add, theres been so many times where I have argued with people that think since they found it on the internet it was true, I hate that. Its worse than helping windows users!!!!!

  422. Computer expert by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

    I wish people would stop thinking that since i studied CS it makes me uniquely qualified to help them formatting their Word document of searching for a site for them.
    I mean, i could probably figure out the interface of a program i've never seen before by trial and error, but so can they.

    In general i would like people to know stuff like the basic outline of the scientific method and formal logic so they don't ask meaningless questions.
    And the fact that everything on the computer is basically a string of bits.

  423. what's more fun is retarded trust policies by BitterAndDrunk · · Score: 1
    I have system administrator rights to the production system of my client.

    I can bring down their website and completely trash their entire ERP with my trust level.

    Why? Because I administer the system for them.
    But I don't have local administrator. :)
    Hilarious. I'm considering rooting my own box just to grant it to me, but everyone will get all huffy even though (suckers) they never made me sign any sort of computer usage agreement.

    --
    You better watch out, there may be dogs about . . .
  424. RTFM by villdemanglermeg · · Score: 1

    I think that the most important thing for everyone to know is the definitions of RTFM and STFW.

  425. they must learn this by wardk · · Score: 1

    how to transfer money from their bank to my bank, or my paypal, or my son's piggy bank....

  426. Look to Hollywood by SirWraith · · Score: 2, Funny

    Anything anyone needs to know about computers they can get from watching Tron.

  427. I wholeheartedly agree cuz I'm an idiot by LiberalApplication · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I agree because I am one of those users who knows enough about system configurations to destroy every goddamn system I work on.

    And I'm a computer programmer!

    Every system I work on has been loaded with so many mods, filled with so many performance tweaks and hacks, had everything overclockable overclocked, that nothing I touch is stable anymore. Sometimes I wish I didn't know about any of this stuff just so that I wouldn't ruin my system and have to do an OS reinstall monthly. I'm a living testament to the dangers of knowledgability, or rather, the dangers of being a user that thinks he/she is knowledgable.

    To all of the computers I've destroyed, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to. I thought we were both having a good time... Until you died.

  428. Re: Basic File Management by netsharc · · Score: 1

    Ah yes "My Documents".. By default, Windows Explorer doesn't even display the full path in the address bar, only the current directory, e.g. "My Documents". Double-click the directory "My Pictures" inside "My Documents", and the contents of the address bar is, "My Pictures". At least in Win2K you can see the folder tree on the right side. in XP it's "Activities!", where they put ads like "Print photos using an online service!" (if I may exaggerate.)

    This is trying to simplify the computer for the user? Of course they had to do that because otherwise the directory would be C:\Documents and Settings\Customer\My Documents\, although, come to think of it, it doesn't sound so scary anyway, in any case it's better than C:\Windows\Profiles\Username\My Documents.

    --
    What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
  429. Analogies "b" great. by LiberalApplication · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Slightly off-topic... Well, actually, I guess it's on-topic... but I've found that it's really easy to explain file-compression to layfolk by comparing it to sudoku.

    A sudoku puzzle, when complete, contains more digits than it does when unsolved. Yet there is only one solution to a given sudoku puzzle. So the starting state, which contains far less information, implies a larger volume of information which is unique to that starting state. Thus you can express the outcome of 81 digits using only some small subset of it, and applying rules to retrieve the rest.

    I'm a goddamn genius!

  430. Re: Basic File Management by netsharc · · Score: 1

    I suppose you can start with the basics, what sort of file we have is determined by its 2 to 4 byte header... okay so that's ~80% of the readers confused.

    Actually Windows uses mostly file extensions to determine what program will be started to open the file. Luckily most programs use the header information so a "me.bmp" that begins with "JFIF" will go through the JPEG-parser.

    Anyway, I would try to explain how an image is stored as a file, taking the uncompressed BMP as an example. Say, BMP files begin with "BM6", and the header (or "beginning of file") contains the width and height of the image, and the next bit of information is a number that represents the brightness for each color (R,G,B) for the first dot of the image, then for the 2nd dot. I wouldn't start talking about bytes and pixels yet, that would confuse them! The reader should also be informed about how colors can be produced by mixing the 3 primary colors.

    Then you can get to the basics of compression using the GIF format by saying "Of course describing each dot is a wasteful process, we can also say 'The first 400 dots is black, then there's 40 white dots.'". As for discrete cosine transformations, well I'm in 5th year CS and even I don't understand it.

    Hopefully the submitter keeps on it and makes a good book out of our ideas. Hmm maybe I should write one myself. ;-)

    --
    What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
  431. Already done by melchoir55 · · Score: 1

    The "for dummies" line of books is intended to cover exactly the material you descirbe. Not only that, but it is already well established and popular.
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/7278 66/ref%3Dpd_sl_aw_bnag-1_software_9783603_6/002-65 19826-3681646

  432. My suggested layout by skintigh2 · · Score: 1

    Chapter 1: Water and other liquids are bad for computers
    Chapter 2: So are magnets
    Chapter 3: Installing everything you find on the Internet is bad
    Chapter 4: Yelling at your kids when your infested computer stops working wont help anything
    etc.

  433. Far more basic than that! by Guey_X · · Score: 1

    There's no way my mother will understand that there is a hard drive and a floppy drive and that they both store data but they are different. I think if you want to make a book anyone can understand you have to make it far more simple than HDD and RAM.

    --
    "I see undead people" Warcraft III - Necromancer
  434. On communications failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It isn't often you get to see two people at each other's throats over the same point.

  435. Reasonable expectations by Steel+Grey+Monk · · Score: 1

    I would suggest that the biggest point to make, at least initially, is what expectations the average user should have regarding a PC. For example, would you (i.e., the end user) be comfortable after a 2 month driver's ed course with going down to the local scrap yard and building a new car? Or even going to the local NAPA and rebuilding the carbeurator? Of course not. For some reason people think that they should be super users 5 minutes after getting home from Best Buy. There's a lot more I'd like to say about that but it's 11:30pm and my brain is vetoing it. You get the gist. or not.

  436. As much as they know about their automobile. by FatSean · · Score: 1

    Which...judging by most people...is ZERO.

    Your mom doesn't try to diagnose a drivability problem with her car, she takes it to the shop.

    Your mom should do the same with the PC.

    Just make sure you find her a reputable shop.

    I mean, if people can't be bothered to understand a relatively simple CAR...

    --
    Blar.
  437. I can't login to the system! by strongmantim · · Score: 1
    I work for a helpdesk and I find that the most difficult thing to get out of a user is what the heck they are trying to do. "I can't get into my system!" can mean Windows, a terminal session, VPN, AS/400, Unix, AIX, HPUX, webmail, Exchange, or any of the other 10 proprietary "systems" my company uses. I am also in charge of training all the n00bs. The first thing I tell them is that our employees are the stupidest people you will ever meet. The second is that getting the information out of them that you will need to solve their problem is 90% of the battle. It sure is easy to be smug and arrogant about knowing how to use PCs (and tech in general) when you work at the helpdesk, but it is always settling to remember that I sure as heck couldn't be a pharmacist (like most of the callers are).

    SO... I guess one thing I would include would be to work hard to distinguish the difference between (for example) Windows and Office and Word. Windows = Operating system. Office = Application Suite. Word = word processing program. Yet somehow teach the reader that all of this is software at the same time. This isn't an easy task in a Windows-centric world (since Windows is document-based, rather than application based like Mac OS X). Good luck to you! I look forward to buying your book for my parents next Christmas.

  438. Halting problem (+20, infinite truth) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've always thought that if you can't explain the halting problem in clear english you shouldn't be allowed near a computer. If I ran the world, I'd require everyone who wanted a license to use a computer to write a simple, 5-10 page essay on the halting problem. I'd require everyone to get a license to use a computer too, as you might have been able to tell from my previous sentence. And those who don't speak english? No license for them.

  439. remember they can read by smash · · Score: 1
    Seriously, the most annoying thing I find with "users" is that as soon as something out of the ordinary happens and a message box pops up, they forget how to read (at least until I make them read the screen before I'll help :)).

    Eg, "Are you sure you want to overwrite this file", and I get queries about it (unfortunately work in close proximity with users). How the fuck should I know, are you saving over something you don't want anymore?? :D

    Or the typical messages about LAN cables not being plugged in. It's like "is your blue cable plugged in" and 9 times out of 10... "oh, it's not plugged in - would that help?"..

    Once they get over the whole "reading" thing, then it's a matter of copying messages you don't know into google, and voila... you're about as skilled as your typical level *2* outsourced support desk idiot :D

    smash.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  440. Things the general public just doesn't comprehend. by j741 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I have dealt with the public every single day for the last 10 years. And not just end-users, but their parents and granparents. Just when I think I've heared it all, someone says something else that surprises me. So here are some things I want people to understand:

    1) The 'hard drive' is a part inside the computer, it is NOT the whole computer.
    2) The 'Computer' does not include a printer and a monitor, those are part of the 'computer system'.
    3) The 'monitor' is not the 'computer'. It is only one part of the 'computer system'.
    4) 'Windows' is NOT the 'computer'. It is an 'operating system', and it's not your only option.
    5) The 'operating system' is special command and control software that makes your computer actually do something like allowing you to use 'application software'. It is the FIRST and MOST COMPLICATED software to be installed on your computer, and can not be un-installed without affecting every other software that is installed on top of the 'operating system'.
    6) Windows does not know about every piece of computer hardware in existance, and can not possibly know about hardware that will be made in the future. That's what 'device drivers' are for.
    7) 'Plug-and-Play' does NOT mean that it just works. It means that it can identify itself to the 'operating system' so that the correct 'device driver' software can be chosen by the 'operating system' without you needing to know any technical details.
    8) Printed manuals are not common. Electronic informaiton is common. 'readme.txt' should not be ignored.
    9) You did not buy 'Microsoft'. You did not buy 'Microsoft Windows' or 'Microsoft Office'. You bought a 'license' to use 'Microsoft Windows' or 'Microsoft Office' under specific conditions.
    10) No, I can not just give you a copy of your favorite commercial software.
    11) Yes, free software does exist.
    12) No, a DVD burner does not mean that you can easily copy your lastest commercial movie rental.
    13) If you choose not to READ what's on your screen before you click 'yes' or 'next' then don't complain if something bad happens.
    14) When asking for help, DETAILS are very important. A history of the activities that led to the problem, or information about how to recreate the problem are VERY IMPORTANT.
    15) If you see an error message, don't just ignore it, WRITE IT ALL DOWN. Simply saying 'There's something wrong' is not very helpful, and can waste a lot of expensive service time.
    16) 'Microsoft Internet Explorer' is NOT the internet. It is a web brower that allows you to view web pages which may be located somewhere on the internet.
    17) 'Microsoft' is NOT your e-mail retrieval program. 'Microsoft Internet Explorer' is NOT your e-mail retrieval program.
    18) Your ability to access information which may be located somewhere on the internet is restricted by the weakest link in the chain of other computers between your computer and the computer from which the information is available.
    19) Your local computer service professional does not need to know that your chemically dependant, recently divorced pregnant cousin's computer is working fine when your computer is the one being serviced.

    And there's more that the end-user needs to understand, but those are the ones that immediately come to mind.

    - James.

    --
    - James
  441. Re: Basic File Management by jambarama · · Score: 1

    The most common problem I've noticed that users have with heirarchal systems. They don't know where "My Documents" is because they presume folders are all flat, there cannot be nesting. I've heard many of my coworkers (I do low level computer support) use a file cabinet as an analogy for the file system. That is no good, when was the last time you had a folder in a folder in a filing cabinet? If users understood nesting, they'd probably get the whole file system thing pretty well. Then they might poke around to look for where their stuff is.

    I can't say how often I've been asked to find a missing document. And I wish to hell windows had a pre-installed updatedb/locate feature.

  442. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. by rocker_wannabe · · Score: 1

    The fact that fact that computers are ubiquitous means that most people feel like they should know something about them. The problem is that computers are complicated and change fairly rapidly. I use to put PCs together many years ago but haven't kept up on the changes. When I put together a PC recently I was scratching my head for a while before I finally figured out what some of the new BIOS features meant or what a SATA cable looked like.

    Only people who work in the industry are going to learn enough about computers to stand any chance of doing the right thing if an error that's not spelled out in the owner's manual takes place. It's like the people who aren't mechanical/automotive engineers that start tinkering with their car and usually learn the hard way what not to do. A computer is too complicated for the layman to do more than identify the major components and run their application. I'm happy when the person I'm talking to knows the difference between the monitor and the PC chassis. The people that are the most dangerous are the ones who THINK they know something because they read a book on computers once.

    I think it's a complete waste of time to write a book about computers for the laymen since there are already plenty of books that give the right amount of detail now. (Usborne Books) Trying to get Grandma to understand what a BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) is just an exercise in patience. As computers become more reliable and more consistent in their interfaces, there will be less and less demand for any understanding of what's going on inside the computer by the layman. Like a car or a microwave oven, as long as they work and we know how to get what we want out of them then we're happy.

    If you want to write a book I would suggest writing about a specific application or about the social impact of computers. Something related to computers that doesn't make the user think he/she is ready to write a rootkit or hack a Linux kernel driver.

    Nothing is given more liberally than advice - La Rochefoucauld
    --
    "Meaningless!, Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless!"
  443. User's aren't intersted in Using by d723 · · Score: 1

    Also keep in mind the reader's goal. For the casual computer user, their goal is not generally "to use the computer." Any interested in learning "how the computer works" is likely is search for explanation of why when they took out the CD, Windows asks for it back and refuses to move on with it's life even after pressing the "Ignore" button. The computer is just one of many possible tools. The reader has goals more like "to share my pictures with my friends" or "see what's on tv tonight" or any of the thousands of other things you can "use" a computer to do. But using the computer isn't the goal. Help people reach their goals and become better computer users along the way.

    What should they learn? I have been using computers almost all my life and I can open up pretty much any application and "use" it to do the most basic tasks it was designed to do (assuming I know what that task is and perhaps even if not). I don't generally require a manual or training until I start to get into the more complex tasks. You should figure out how I can do that, and how to impart that knowledge to others in a book.

    My thoughts, I know how to "try out" an application. I know starting up an app and hunting through the menus and trying each one isn't going to break anything. I know how to uninstall the crappy software if it does break seomthing. I know to take a look through all the options in the preferences. I know to try stuff out in a new file. I know about undo. I know right-click changes depending on where you click. I know about click and drag. I know the computer militaristically enforces a ridiculous hierarchical file system and presents me with outrageously varying interfaces to navigate this sadistic maze. I know I must comply. I know what tabs and scroll bars look like in all their forms. I know when I see a scroll bar that I'm not seeing all the info. I know to look for a scroll bar if I don't see what I need. I know what a toggle button looks like even though I may not have always been aware it was called a toggle button. I know how to find out if the computer is actually doing something or not. When I look at a typical interface I know where to look. When I get an error message I know to paste the error surrounded by quotes into google to find some ideas to the solution. I know if I drag the Gmail link to my links bar it will make my life easier.

    So I think you should get people interested in learning the basic skills they need to do fun stuff with the computer by helping them reach their goals and making them smarter along the way. Computers make people feel stupid. Nobody wants to be stupid. Help them understand that it's the computer that's stupid.

  444. Does your audience include typewriter users? by akratic · · Score: 1

    My mother used to use a mechanical typewriter. She was an excellent typist, but because she was so used to the way typewriters work, it was hard for her to learn how to use a word processor efficiently. Some things that took her months or years to get used to:

    1. You don't have to hit return at the end of every line.
    2. Backspace, delete, and left arrow do different things. None of them do what backspace does on a typewriter, unless you put the computer in overstrike mode.
    3. If you type something in plain text and then decide you want it in italic, you don't have to backspace over everything you typed, click the "I" button, and type it over again.
    4. In fact, you never have to type anything over again.

    Part of the reason (3) and (4) were hard for her is that she was afraid to highlight text. She's gotten used to it now, but she used to react to the appearance of highlighted text as most people would react to a large spider crawling onto the monitor.

  445. Re: Basic File Management by pseudosocrates · · Score: 1
    I teach an HTML class to primarily New Canadians who often have a limited grasp of English, and certainly a limited grasp of computers. Ok, I hear you all crying "Teach them the basics before you teach them HTML", but my course runs concurrent with a number of other 'starter' courses, that in theory prep them for Canadian employment.
    So, I try to not patronise, and I try to not oversimplify, as that only leads to problems in week 7 or contradictions with Bob in Basic Computing, where you have to go back on your original lie (anyone remember their physics classes from age 12...complete bullshit).
    What I do though is make heavy use of analogy and visual cues. I always keep class notes in a bright yellow folder, that is remarkable similar to a Windows folder icon. "This yellow thing is a folder, inside is files with information" is usually only needed once after they've renamed a folder to index.html. I also always carry a newspaper to class.
    <h1> is the headline. <h2> is the subheading. This is a <p> paragraph...etc...
    I've found these two tools to be the most useful teaching aids possible.
  446. Re: Basic File Management by almaw · · Score: 1

    I think you miss the point entirely. Your post contains vast amounts of fluff. Techies will know all this. Non-techies won't get further than "A "folder" is a container that can contain many files, can contain folders, and can be found in a folder." and people in-between will get bored while trying to find the things they don't know in the cruft.

    Don't bore the user with applications - they won't know what Open Office is, or care. If you're writing a book, they'll also be out of date in a year.

    Something more like:

    Files are like bits of paper - they contain your actual data. Folders are where you keep your files, just like in a filing cabinet. Unlike normal cardboard folders in a filing cabinet, you can nest folders inside one another, as deep as you like.

  447. A list of what not to do by lukesl · · Score: 1

    Instead of telling people what to do when they use a computer, give them a list of things NOT to do. The point is, most people are so afraid to break their computer that they don't explore it. The list of things not to do is actually pretty short, if you think about it: don't mess with your system files, don't change your network settings, etc. When people realize that there actually aren't that many actions they need to avoid, they will be less afraid to explore and learn on their own.

  448. OK, just to say I tried... by Hosiah · · Score: 1
    There is no doubt in me that 1000's of years from now, civilizations of that time will look back on our present zeitgeist on computers with the same amazement with which we regard Dark Ages superstitions about fairies, elves, and witches. So I commend you on your solo voyage to Mars.

    The most important thing you can do to make people understand computers is to drive it home that they're actually incredibly simple. They're as simple as a toaster - they're just a hell of a lot of toasters shrunk to microsize and wired together. Start with a light switch: one and zero; on and off. Wire three light switches together and there's a way to count to set them to eight different states. Wire them differently and they're different kinds of logic gates. Wire some more and you have NAND gates. Millions of switches later shrunken down to atoms make a chip. The rest is convenient tags we label groups of ones and zeros with to make it do anything useful. Build your way up the programming toolchain from there. [NOTE: see replies to this post for errors I made here, but only if they can compact the improved explanation into the same number of words.]

    Take that paragraph (lovingly polished by the rest of the community), but DON'T LET IT GROW TO TWO! Take the wisdom of Abe Lincoln into account, who always insisted that reports from generals be entirely contained by a single piece of paper. Use that paragraph for the seed to your book, but keep it a Bonsai book. Be a revolutionary pioneer and give people a computer book they can LIFT for a change, and maybe they won't be scared to read it. I suggest 25 pages, large print, not counting illustrations. (NOT diagrams with labels and arrows everywhere. Illustrations. Like in a children's book.)

  449. Re: Basic File Management by LegendLength · · Score: 1

    Anyway, I would try to explain how an image is stored as a file, taking the uncompressed BMP as an example.

    I like that strategy.

    Total newbies interested in computers often start the conversation with "So computers are all ones and zeros?", I'm not sure why they choose that line so frequently. Without showing them an example of converting 'normal' information to binary, they are eternally lost at how the computer can actually hold such wildly different objects as a video and an mp3 in binary. They must have a very mixed up mental picture of storage, it would essentially be magic to them.

    But rather than start with the BMP header I would show an example of converting a tiny 2d black & white digital image to a string of binary (no mention of bytes or hex etc., of course). Perhaps then introduce 8 bit color storage format showing how each 8 bit combination represents and arbitrary real world color etc., still without introducing bytes explicitly on the first lesson.

  450. Write caching! Please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know my stupid friend won't read the book, he'll be too busy being too cool to shut down his computer properly. And too cool to wait for that irritating blue XP-scandisk screen. And it won't prevent my mom's heart attack when it comes time to eject the USB-stick and the infernal XP taskbar eject button's gone missing. But maybe someone I don't know, somewhere far, far away, will finally attain some basic level of common sense regarding what can be ejected/turned off and when (and maybe, god forbid, why).
    If not, then fsck them all.

  451. Re: Basic File Management by Hasie · · Score: 1

    I can understand why users get confused about computers. I still talk and think about a "directory" rather than a "folder." This makes explaining things to my mom hell whenever I forget that someone decided to change the name. Minor changes like this are extremely confusing for users who never completely understood the concept of a "directory" and now suddenly have a "folder" thrust on them.

  452. server vs. client computer by Unconventional · · Score: 1

    I don't know if this has been addressed - there have been so many comments to this thread. I have a problem explaining to people how some e-mail accounts (AOL, for instance) keeps everything on their servers, while most e-mail clients using POP3 will keep files/e-mail locally on the client computer, and delete off of the server. This is a major problem for some users to understand. Other issues include WHY using Microsoft IE is such a bad idea, and why it's a good idea to avoid websites that can only be accessed by IE. Most computers that I've had to clean up were messed up by ActiveX that allowed malware into the system. Just some problems I've encountered. Thanks.

  453. Understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the biggest danger with new computer users, (or n00bs) are those who are slightly informed.

    We in the industry throw words at people like virus, spyware, popup, IP, upload. The people as a whole dont really understand these words.

    I can't count the number of times i've told people "When this box pops up, put your userna..." Client: "I cant go there if it has popups. They're bad."

    I've had people tell me theres a problem with my server because they put in a bad email address.

    I find a few rules to always be true:
    -People expect all hardware to be able to run any program. Regardless of hardware or software limits.
    -People are trained to click "Ok", "Yes", and "Next". No matter what the computer is trying to do.

    The things i would have you teach, is be vigilant. Read messages and requests before agree. If you dont understand what the computer wants, find someone who does. Teach them how the internet really works.

    So much to say. You'll probably not ever read this. To many replys.
    ClientCopia.com Good examples there.

  454. exposure by LordMyren · · Score: 1

    You sir have absolutely no empathy for people who do not pretend to understand every facet of their existance. There's plenty of people who live in really small parts of the world, who really never got a chance to see much; its really not their fault they didnt have the exposure to all the 21st century whoonanny any "properly civilized person" has. Or even smaller things, like say, literacy. You'd be astounded the unliteracy rate of some places in the US. Its not just desire to learn, its how our brains have been programmed. Some brains just dont have the patterns to digest what their seeing, and its not like sitting down and explaining something slowly and with good metaphors is going to suddenly make a light bulb go off. There's enormous interia to overcome. Many of these things are just non-integrable into people's existing conception of reality, there's simply no existing rules or patterns to start from, to begin to even understand the faintest thing about some of your obvious concepts. Knowledge is a pyramid with a very very wide base my young paduan. And with no one is volunteering to explain these things, to deconstruct the weird rules their grasping brain substitutes for objectively-seemingly-plausible ones, the situation borders hopeless. It just takes experience, it takes experience to build more. But without that core, if you're constantly rebuffed, if rules never make sense, its like a mice or pet cat that gets shocked for doing some objective task "wrong" but cant cognitize what & why it keeps happening... its just random negative reinforcement that builds up until the only solution is to turn off and turn out. Stick with what you know, with what doesnt hurt. Be glad you can eat ok. Worship your false icons. Life does what it must to survive, sometimes there's just not enough light left to flourish.

    Computers especially are non-intuivite systems, criticizing people for not understanding is sub-human; being able to screen scrape and guestimate your way through menu-driven systems is like diving through a perpeutally changing rabit hole. A computer at 1024x768 updates 2000 words 75 times a second, a single menubar hides ninety different buttons which each spring up entirely different dialog boxes. Sometimes a couple mechanized processes to do basic tasks really is a stellar achievement. My dad, a wonderul and insightful craftsmen, always exploring new techniques and building styles, cant do much more than mechanized computer work. He gains familiarity with a couple facets of a couple systems and works with what he knows. He picked up quick, his mental model and experience allowed him to run mechanical task-based routines through computers reasonably well reasonaly quick with a little assistance and a little improvisation, but by and large his improvisational and navigational skills are really limited. But he doesnt do well with configuration or settings at all, he doesnt understand what to look for. I dare say, he'll be able to do what he wants with computers, but I doubt he'll ever really understand or intuit how computers work. Telling him to sit down in front of a computer and "play around" would do nothing. My mom on the other hand was much slower to learn, she could never automate the process of finding what she was looking for. So she's developed a strong ability to screen scrape and experiment. She's actually learning how it works, rather than how to do it. She's building the filters to digest what is in front of her. My dad still has to read every character on screen. Not everyone has a mental model to really understand.
    ------

    There's a reason this world is filled with fundie right wing nut jobs. Its because they cant comprehend the world, and because there's these chest thumping self proclaimed liberally educated elite that demand everyone be as cultured and omni-knowing as them. Just do your cause a favor and shut the fuck up. I'm tired of loosing elections already.

    Some day there'll be a world where the raison d'êtr is some wonderful

    1. Re:exposure by finkployd · · Score: 1

      You sir have absolutely no empathy for people who do not pretend to understand every facet of their existence.

      Sure I do, which is why I tried to make it painfully clear I wasn't expecting everyone to be a computer expert (I thought I made that clear but it seems I needed to devote some more paragraphs to driving that point home for many people who only saw me write "everyone who is not a computer expert is a failure" or whatever else they wanted to see).

      I'm talking about people who hit a certain age and just go "fuck it" I'm not learning anything anymore. Whatever political beliefs my parents held (or the opposite as the case may be) is how I will vote for life, don't bother me with facts. Whatever I know about people (sexes, races, religions) at a certain point is what I will always believe and no experience or investigation on my part will ever change it. Technology will progress and I will desire to take part in it but I will damned pissed if I ever have to learn anything to do so. Everything should work exactly like the stuff I had when I was a kid. There is something really unhealthy about that attitude in society today and more and more people seem to be proud of it.

      There's plenty of people who live in really small parts of the world, who really never got a chance to see much; its really not their fault they didn't have the exposure to all the 21st century whoonanny any "properly civilized person" has. Or even smaller things, like say, literacy. You'd be astounded the unliteracy rate of some places in the US.

      And you know what, many of these people in third world countries know tons of stuff that "cultured" and "educated" people in the US don't. How many of your average US Joe's would die in the wilderness in a day or two? How many could build an over night shelter, let alone a house? Or get their own food without WalMart? Again, I'm not saying everyone needs to quit their day job and become an aborigine (although I fully expect people to accuse me of this) but some basic knowledge of how to stay alive without a fully functional nanny-like society cannot be a bad thing. Technology has become both a timesaver and crutch in this case. People cannot do basic navigation without a GPS, basic math without a calculator, or even (it seems) figure out what food to eat so as not to balloon up to an unhealthy size unless the government (or diet guru) tells them what to eat. We know how to check email but forget basic rules like "don't just give your credit card out to any anonymous person who asks" and blame computers for being too complicated. These are the same people who wouldn't fall for a scam in real life or over the phone but have some strange trust in the computer technology (which they happily do not understand a bit of) that lets them do this.

      Many of these things are just non-integrable into people's existing conception of reality, there's simply no existing rules or patterns to start from, to begin to even understand the faintest thing about some of your obvious concepts. Knowledge is a pyramid with a very very wide base my young paduan. And with no one is volunteering to explain these things, to deconstruct the weird rules their grasping brain substitutes for objectively-seemingly-plausible ones, the situation borders hopeless. It just takes experience, it takes experience to build more.

      Totally agree, and there are some things that for the life of me I cannot figure out, but that does not mean I'm going to throw my hands up and say "fuck it all, this learning is hard, I'm done".

      Computers especially are non-intuivite systems, criticizing people for not understanding is sub-human;

      When to use a semicolon has always eluded me, and unless you just screwed up, I learned a case where it is valid :)

      But to the topic at hand, I agree, and this is why I specifically said I don't expect everyone to understand CPU opcodes, but there is no reason why anyone cannot understand what part is the computer, what part i

  455. dual core processors by jdbartlett · · Score: 1

    Dual core processors and system specs in general. A lot of consumers are intimidated by the many terms used on computer boxes. Rule of thumb is that higher numbers mean better, but things like dual core processors are exceptions.

  456. Give them all a rundown on alternative programs. by LupusCanis · · Score: 1

    State that there are often superior, free alternatives out on the web for various programs, direct them to Opera and Firefox, OpenOffice, Foobar, Thunderbird, GAIM, Gimp et cetera.

  457. It used to be. by Foerstner · · Score: 1

    Many decades ago, the refrigerator-sized box that contained the whatsits that did logical operations (it was not a "microprocessor" back then) was called the CPU. It was the Central Processing Unit, because it was the unit in the center of the room where all the processing was done.

    As time progressed and technology advanced, this refrigerator-sized box shrank to the point where it could fit underneath a desk. Eventually, it could even fit on top of the desk, and had enough empty space inside to accommodate storage devices. But historically, "CPU" is the correct term for the box that holds the whatsits, however small the actual whatsits inside have become.

    --
    The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
  458. Teach people Computers? by anupamsr · · Score: 1

    Why the hell anyone would do that?

    Darling, we feed on other's ignorance. Don't take away my job.

    --
    I forgot to be anonymous.
  459. The learning curve and the danger zone by beeg_98 · · Score: 1

    Teaching people always requires more work in the short term, but less in the long term. I taught one friend of mine about computers while we were roommates, and we had some pretty good laughs about the mistakes he made. Within one week, he deleted system files off of his windows machine twice that required a reinstallation each time. That was the short term... he was constantly yelling for me to come help. And I did, and as I did, I taught him more. Now he's pretty good with computers. He can fix his own problems now, and I haven't had to help him for a long time. There is a "danger zone" in knowledge about computers, but once you get past that, then things improve quickly, and soon they are teaching others about computers. Moral of the story: patience. I too killed the operating system when I was learning about my first computer... it shouldn't surpise me too much of other people do to in an effort to learn. But in reference to that book? First thing you should teach them is how to back up their important data. After they do that... let them do whatever they want to their computer. It is theirs afterall. And if they break it, then it will be their challenge to fix it, and when they can successfully do that, then they are on their way.

  460. Profiting from "open source" advice? by macraig · · Score: 1

    This is truly classic, isn't it? This fellow is self-confident (or arrogant) enough to think that HE can write The Book that everyone else has failed to effectively write (or so he says). What's his first action in pursuit of that goal? He comes here, to Slashdot, soliciting free advice and ideas, from which he intends to pick and choose for inclusion as his own ideas in his own book, from which he will monetarily and perhaps even culturally profit.

    Dude, that ain't how open source works.

  461. ALREADY Being Done by Russ Walter . . . by Moe1975 · · Score: 1

    Free (and legal) online version of "The Secret Guide to Computers" by Russ Walter:
    http://www.secretguide.net/
    Author's site:
    http://www.angelfire.com/nh/secret/
    Guy has a great sense of humor, and has been publishing the book (now in its 29th Edition) for several years.
    MRH

    --
    SARAVA!
  462. What shouold they understand? by Paulmnz · · Score: 1

    The problem is not in how things are explained, but in that as many in these threads have recognised- most older/inexperienced users don't understand what a computer is doing. The best thing my parents did (in their 60's) was do a night class that introduced them to computing. They learned how to use the internet, what viruses are and why they need to keep anti-virus software up to date, installation of apps and some basics of computer management and hardware configuration and purpose. Straight forward stuff that most of us learned so long ago we forgot where we heard it. But for these people - its a new world and its scary.

  463. +1, funny by Paul+Crowley · · Score: 1

    I have no mod points but I must comment...

  464. Where's my Hard drive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People need to learn that their hard drive is not the case with the motherboard, CPU etc. The number of times people have said to me "I need to put my hard drive under my desk" is crazy. While we're on that topic, people need to learn that putting their computers on the floor under their desk is bad for the computer.

  465. Difference between Files and Folders...! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It never ceases to amaze me how many people have no concept of a filesystem. Now I'm not talking NetBios and Samba, but just the basic idea whenever you are working on a computer, you are modifying files which are arranged in a tree structure. My Dad has used a computer for years, but still doesn't really understand (no matter how many times I tell him) that "C:" is his hard drive and "A:" is his floppy drive. And when he invokes the strange magic of "Z:" by plugging in his USB flash drive, he might as well be solving the Da Vinci Code. To him, the computer is just One Big Place where information lives. The idea of having multiple documents open in Word confuses him no end. And this is a guy who for decades worked in technical jobs such as fixing cars and working as a factory electrician and knows way more about most practical stuff than I ever will.

  466. Just two things by Big+Nothing · · Score: 1

    "What Should People Understand About Computers?"

    Really just two things: 0 and 1.

    --
    SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
  467. shouldn't that be . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2-(N-1) because N would be the MD5 of the page before it, no?

  468. DUDE PICTURES by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK you have stolen the way i was never goning to make my $$
    i live with a family of computer illitrate people who want to use computers but just do know how
    Ive found that the more i explain the worse off everone is, but by showing them what to do then making them go though it. this allows them to get a direction in what they do.
    2. YOU MUST EXPLAIN THAT COMPUTERS DO NOTHING EVERTING A COMPUTER DOSE IS SOMTHING ITS BEEN TOLD TO DO
    3. MUST EXPLAING FILE SYSTEM
                        baised on triditional file cabnets. bits=ink bites=leters doc/imgs/etc=pages folder=file disk drive (can be orgnised in diferent ways fat32 anyone? there is a reson you defrag..)= cabnent ram=your hands holding your pages processer=libary staff (finding and bringing requested pages) os=subconcus mind that takes leters on a page, makes sence of them and sends them to your concus mind monitor=concus mind keybord/mouse=pencile and erazor (modifing and changeing info)

    this is the best way to describe this info because thats the wasy it was orignally designed because libary file cabnets stored huge amounts of info that could be acessed easly and effintually (Dont break what works...) so they baised computer file systems on them
    eg
    c\info1\target
    would be
    witch cabnet\ what file name \ doucment that is required
    4. EXPLAING THAT EVERTING THAT IS NEEDED IS ON THE SCREEN (in most cases)
    5. FInally USE PICTURES, i cant stress this enough, i personally just spent months lerning how to use knoppix (thats right im not a linix user)you get lost then you are screwed, eventually i found a website that had a few screen shots of where your sposed to be at a sertian stage, this allowed me to have a go and if my screen was different from the stage 5 pix but it was right at the stae 3 pix i knew i fucked up 4
    SO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD INCLUDE PICTURES OF EVERTHING, even if you have to have an atorunning cd full of picks do it because without pictures you will fail, (how many manuals for anything to do with the public do you know without the most basic enstructions in litle images[fire extingushers anone ...pull pin..pic of pulling pin..])

    i know this will be repeating pervious posts but i felt that it needed to be said
    if any questions worldoffire2000@yahoo.com (title slashdot)
    Pizzaboy
    GOOD LUCK i will by a coppy so i no longer have to show mum where the fk is her email has gone.......

  469. re:where to draw the line by john666seven · · Score: 1

    When you have to explain that "Windows" is the pretty blue screen,how to add an address to email,things are pretty bad. Then there is that real frightening thing to do--cut and paste--the text turns white then it disappears. Windows start pop-up menu and programs? Maybe it is time to re-think the graphical interface????????--and automate a few things like clean and defrag the hard drive.

    --
    John W....
  470. Re: Basic File Management (give 'em Pages, then) by thc69 · · Score: 1

    Great points. Entirely agreed. They definitely do NOT need all that crap. Here I was writing a long post about how a book should teach people to filter out the stuff that they don't need/want to see, and you come along with a better idea (though somewhat off-topic for this discussion, an Ask Slashdot about writing a book to educate users on how stuff works now): Just get RID of the crap that they don't need/want to see. GUIs can always have easily-switched "Simple" and "Expert" modes for geeks who DO want/need to see stuff.

    However, if they must be stuck with all that junk, could we at least make it require knowledge and a confirmation dialog before they can have a window any size other than maximized? I've never seen a non-geek who uses non-maximized windows in any useful way; they're not even cognizant of the size/status of the window.

    Unfortunately, they readily understand resizing the window, but not maximizing; they drag the window until it fills the screen, then they ask me where their status bar went, why they can't see the bottom button on the scroll bar, etc. Meanwhile, Windows does a great job of saving the window size and position, but refuses to save it's maximized status when I maximize. I make sure to maximize the last window of a program before closing, I set the shortcut to start maximized, and stuff still comes up in some oddball size and position.

    I'm a multitasking geek, who processes all kinds of incongruent data simultaneously, and even *I* rarely want non-maximized windows. I want to see as much info as possible, pull a split-second Alt+Tab, get or use info in that window, Alt+Tab again, etc. I hate having a 17" screen at 1280x1024 and still having to scroll around just to click on a bookmark or some such.

    --
    Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
  471. RAM by DrLang21 · · Score: 1

    For the love of gad pound into their heads the difference between RAM and HD space.

    "You need more RAM. That's why your computer is crawling."
    "But we hardly have any files on it."
    *Head to Desk*

    --
    I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
  472. Re: Basic File Management (give 'em Pages, then) by thc69 · · Score: 1
    Have any of you ever used or seen any software designed for small kids? Imagine your entire OS being designed like that. It would be AWFUL.
    Have you ever seen software designed for 100% non-geek use? Microsoft Picture It looks like something for small kids, at least the last time I saw it it did, with huge brightly colored plastic-looking buttons...and I know I've seen other programs that look similar. This is probably the future of consumer computing.
    --
    Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
  473. Re: Basic File Management by thc69 · · Score: 1

    True, but it's very close. Fix the slashes and add a little more detail, and "Letter wrote to Alchemar on 1-17-06.doc" is a great filename. "Letter.doc" and "Alchemar.doc" are terrible.

    --
    Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
  474. NASCOM doesn't run DOS by igb · · Score: 1
    A Nascom (with that lovely grey keyboard) will have been running CP/M. It's a Z80 machine.

    ian

  475. Do you really want to write such a book? by AdriaanN · · Score: 1

    I've tried to explain e-mail using the postoffice analogy, tried to tell about folders and files using paper folders and trees (that grow upside down) - I failed each time.

    The baby-duck effect dictates that if one writes a letter "in Word", it's stored "in Word", since it it cannot be found back any other way (because of numerous other files in 'My Documents').
    "So, what's this confusing stuff about trees you're telling me?".

    "I can't see your mail when I open Eudora!"
    "Did you click on 'check mail'?"
    "My neighbor has Outlook - that works!"
    (because Outlook checks all POP servers right after it's started)

    "I can't mail that letter - there's no option to do that in Word"

    Windows' users won't think about concepts, they just want to get things done. I imagine it will be very hard to get them to read any book, as that takes away from getting things done. And unfortunately Microsoft understood that better than anyone else.

    Gnome and KDE are just learning that. It seems they're going the Microsoft way.

    You need to make a choice: fight an up-hill battle teaching people concepts they do not want to learn or go with the flow and write yet another "practical computer" handbook.

    It's because people like to drive a car without having to know where the oil-fill cap is. We're the mechanics - don't write that book for us.

  476. Re:What kind of questions are you so sick of answe by Ithika · · Score: 1

    The filing cabinet/desk metaphor is really good for explaining the difference between HD storage and RAM. And, even better, it can be logically extended to... processors, cache and virtual memory:

    Imagine you have more than one desk that you can sit and work at, but there is only one of you (one CPU, extensible for multi-CPU systems). So whenever you want to change to another task you have to write the CPU registers and suchlike to memory (ie, write down what you were thinking on a post-it note) and move to a different desk, where you can read what you were doing last and get on with it.

    Hence we have multi-tasking systems which repeatedly "swap desks". If there aren't enough desks (RAM) to store all the working tasks, then one of the desks has to be cleared into a special folder and filed away in a cabinet. This cabinet is marked "virtual memory" and accessing it in future is obviously a lot slower than just reading a post-it note stuck to a desk.

    This all conjecture, of course, as I've never had a lay person to test this extended analogy on.

  477. How to talk about computers to older people. by jg900ss · · Score: 1

    We often sell our older companions short when we talk down to them about computers, but it is no substitute for telling them what this machine really is. They need to understand that this is a true serial environment, that a computer is doing only what it has been told to do, either by the software, or the mouse, or the keyboard, or some other input signal it is receiving. Once the true nature of this cause and effect relationship is understood by someone, it makes them behave differently with the mouse, with the keyboard, with their overall treatment of the machine. And it is fundamental to making them respect what kind of tool it is when it is kept in top running condition, and what kind of anightmare it can become when we get sloppy and lazy about its proper care.

    One important point that is essential in making the book worthwhile will be to be sure, as I mentioned above, not to talk down to the audience. This is, after all, and educational effort, as is the endeavor they are embarking on about learning to use a computer.

  478. Basic Digital Restrictions Management by tepples · · Score: 1

    The fact that I can use the same video player utility to play BBC programs as I use for ones I recorded here in Colorado is stunning to him.

    Given the propagation of digital restrictions management and videos that can not be downloaded, only streamed, it's stunning to me too.

  479. MOD PARENT UP (+ me) by r3m0t · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I could have been one of those kids, but I don't have the people skills to handle J. Average-s who think too much of themselves.

  480. I had an idea about writing a similar book, but... by xdmp · · Score: 1

    Your question post particularly interested me, because i had the same idea, and actually i was quite successful in explaining all the essentials about the functioning of a computer to my wife, in about 8 'lectures', and i had an idea about writing a book based on it. Me and my wife both studied biology at university, although i pursued programming career - I've done programming way better than biology ;-). My wife was an ordinary computer user, knowing only how to use MS Office, and sometimes i had difficulties answering questions like
    "what's you working on now ?"
    So i worked out a lecture plan, and invited her to study a computer in depth.

    We started from how information presented in computers, from bits to bytes and words, then to CPU - about the addressing, the registers, different number formats, then to CPU instructions, how instructions organized to function as a whole program, and finally, we discussed I/O, and I/O devices.

    Next section was about higher-level concepts: how data is organized on external storage, what is a file, how files organized to form a filesystem. Next i explained what is computer program, how programs created (assemblers,compilators,interpretors), and then, based on previous concepts (instructions, files) i explained how program presented on disk and in memory. Then we talked about the OS, about the core, dynamic libraries, standard programs, and what is OS distributives. And finally, we talked about the processes, what they are, their properties, and how processes interact with the OS.

    She also done some hands-on exercises i prepared to better understand the concepts.

    As i said, it doesn't took overly much time - 8 or 10 evening lessons ( 2-4 hours each ). I recorded most of our lessons in mp3, but promised not to give it out to anybody ;-)

    I can say what I'm satisfied with result: now i can discuss my work with her, knowing what she at least knows what I'm talking about,
    and explaining new concepts like 'how viruses propagate' is fairly easy. She also claims what new knowledge gave her much more confidence when working with computer programs.

    This lessons gave me valuable information on things which is hard for novice to understand, like what all what is digital is made out of the same digits, and the difference is how something interprets this digits.

    The reason what i said i 'had' the idea to write a book is because then i analyzed my experience on teaching my wife, i realized what it is the live discussion, the communication, quick answers to questions what made this possible. If i gave her some book to read, i think she will abandon it after a hour of reading. The problem with books is what you can't get the answers quickly, and then you don't have a clear picture in your mind, you become bored.

    So i suggest what before you starting to write book, you make a plan how to teach someone about computers, and then do that - teach, head-to-head. It will give you comprehension of what you really need to explain to novice.

    And talking about how to teach someone about computers without live teacher, i suggest this should be a multimedia application with a lot of graphic/video examples to guard user from boredom, and in the ideal, there need to be a large button , 'Question', and it should provide _quick_ answers, so i think such multimedia application is best organized as a (paid) web service where someone will answer user questions (well, semil-live teacher ;), and this questions will be very various, so FAQ just will not help.

  481. Abuse of the term 'crash' by mwace · · Score: 1

    For gods sakes, man, please explain to people what the word 'crash' means! I was talking to my friend the other day, trying to convince him he shouldn't use 'bear share' on his new Dell XPS, and I brought up Limewire - which he promptly responded "Doesn't limewire crash your computer?". I just kind of sat there a few seconds and then agreed. No you idiot, your computer crashs when it looses its ability to generate lift and subsquently comes in violent contact with another object! From what I understand, a computer 'crash' is when a software program encounters a critical error, or is otherwise forced to end/halt operation without direct input to do so by the user. Sometimes this takes the operating system out too, which I would imagine is what my friend meant, and sometimes your OS will crash itself - but could you please clearly identify what exactly a 'crash' is?! Also, on another note, I would just like to commend you on the challenge you're undertaking. Computer lingo is praticly like leetspeak (13375q34l - and yes, I don't speak it very well), what with the nearly encouraged variation in phrases. If you could shoot me an email, en mass perhaps, when your new book comes out, I'd like to recommend a copy to my friend! (my email being mw@agfnet.us)

  482. Rule #1: Determinism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The computer is determined (in the metaphysical sense) very strictly by design. It does precisely what it is told to do, by the user, by the software author, by the microcode programmer. Computers are so amazingly determined that even when they are used to generate random numbers, they have to have some way of generating the randomness deterministically. There is no magic, there is no mystery.

    Of course, the implications of this for any attempt at creating truly "Free" software are huge...

  483. Re: Basic File Management (give 'em Pages, then) by moonbender · · Score: 1

    I've been using computers since I was 6 or 7... I'm 24 now. Personally, I've always felt that files and folders were intuitive.

    Now that you mention it... You're right, I can't recall ever having a problem with filesystem hierarchies on the likes of the Atari ST. Strange. I guess it's just a matter of being introduced to it at that age. Or maybe my recollection of those days is just flawed.

    --
    Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  484. Re: Basic File Management by moonbender · · Score: 1

    Strange. A HTML course to prep them for Canadian employment? How likely is it that they will start out their career creating web sites?

    --
    Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  485. It's Back To 1920 All Over Again by cmholm · · Score: 1
    We're in a situation much like that for radio and tv early in the 20th century. We've got a technology that's been ripe for tinkering and hacking, or for use in specific business and scientific applications where some level of technical expertise can be brought to bear.

    Like the Philco consoles of old, PC technology isn't bullet proof, so Grannie is left to fiddle with the knobs to hang onto her station... er, web site. At some point, computer vendors will get their products to the point where the delievery lady from Sears can drop the system onto the kitchen counter, spend five minutes getting it connected/configured, and it "just work".

    In the meantime, any system barf or application setting gotcha can quickly evolve into techno-speak la-la land, so there's no book format that's going to be the silver bullet. Until the systems approach what most of the buyers can handle, the complexity of a cell phone say, we're going to be stuck attending the school of hard knocks, whether as students or instructors.

    --
    Luke, help me take this mask off ... Just for once, let me butterfly kiss you with my own eyes.
  486. Some subject ideas. by Druegan · · Score: 1

    First of all, good luck on the project. Don't get your hopes up on it making too much of a difference though. Most people don't bother to read.

    I would start the book out with a brief overview of the hardware, with pictures. Define the terms you're going to be using; basically what the parts are, what they do, and the names that they are properly called. No, a person doesn't need to know the difference between a modem and an Ethernet card, but they should know which one they are using in order to explain it to the tech when something breaks.

    Once you have the hardware described, in layman's terms, move a level up from that. If you're feeling ambitious, describe the basic function of a BIOS. Don't get into all the bells and whistles, just what it does, and that its the first step in the control layer atop the hardware.

    Then pop into the OS. If you're going for mass market, this will be Windows. Make your statements from that perspective, and bring in similarities between some of the other majors, like OS X and Linux. No need to confuse them endlessly.

    On the OS, new users need to understand how it works, especially the file system. They need to grasp the concept that every single program they run operates THROUGH the OS. Something like "You tell the program what to do. The progam tells the OS, the OS tells the hardware." They need to know that, like the old game "Telephone", there is a chance that something, at each level, can fuck up.

    On the file system... There have been a LOT of attempts to explain file systems, but the one that works best is the model that the file system is based on, the good old-fashioned filing cabinet.

    If you explain that the hard drive is a big filing cabinet, and that each file goes in a folder, which, in turn, can go into related folders, and that those folders can be organized in groups, it tends to be fairly easily grasped. Example: "You're a secretary at a major company and your job involves a lot of correspondence. You send many letters to one other company in particular, so you decide, in order to better organize them, that you put all the letters to this company into one folder of your filing cabinet. This helps you find them.

    However, your boss starts doing more business with this company, and does so in a few different areas. So, instead of just dumping all the correspondence into one company folder, you make up 3 other folders for each line of business that is done with that company. Those 3 folders go inside the main company folder, and the correspondence relating to each project goes into its own folder."

    Folders and directories aren't hard when you lay that out. Explain how different programs have different "default" folders, but that a user should change these settings to fit their own comfortable system.

    Once you've explained the file system, move on to other bits about the OS. Again, it doesn't have to be breathtaking, but in order to change the oil on a car, you have to open the hood, not look under the seat.

    Then you should break into software. Explain the difference between "bundled software" and the OS. Now, here I would recommend putting together a sort of "base template" for a general program interface. It's almost universal that various "menus" are located at the top of the screen, starting from the left, like a book. The first is almost invariably called "File"...

    If you break down some generalities about these menus, and explain that they ARE generalities, it will give the reader a passing familiarity about where to look for things. Also, I've found that if you can teach the user about those generalities, they are often much less intimidated by a new piece of software. Focus on how things stay the same, regardless of how much changes. There are commonalities between the very latest and greatest software releases and the earliest, crudest examples. Point those out and people tend to be less confused.

    I think the best result is explaining the "rules" that exist around a compute

  487. Re:I had an idea about writing a similar book, but by chawly · · Score: 1

    The tolerance of women has always amazed me.

    --
    How many beans make five, anyhow ? ... Charles Walmsley
  488. moving target subject makes book obsolete... by capsteve · · Score: 1

    i think your intensions are good, but your paving your own personal road to hell, or at least torment. at the end of the day your reading audience will end up being those who really know(or want to know), and your book will end up being really lame. your mom might read your book because she's your mom, but she probably wishes that someone would just "program" a simple, easy to use computer... and she probably doesn't want to waste her time reading about computers.

    put it this way, how much does your mom know about automobiles(mechanics, engine displacement, suspension, electrical harness, etc) and how does this information improve her use of a car? how about a TV, or a gas stove, or any other consumer product? most of these object have built in instructions, semantics, to help the user learn how to use the product. computers and software have a long way to go before semantics gets encorporated as much as they have for many consumer products.

    --
    three can keep a secret, if two are dead - benjamin franklin
  489. Each program can use different keys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi -

    Sorry for a delay in replying.

    Here's a concept that I never even think about that I have encountered a few times with someone new to computers...

    You have to stress upfront that each different software application can possibly have different keys do different things. I know Windows and the Mac have standardized many actions, but many other things are still left up to each app. (Especially the dreaded F-keys in Windows.)

    Further, the idea of different applications is also an early concept. Most people want to say or think "I'm using the computer" rather than "I'm using the Opera browser under Windows on my computer"

    TWR

  490. Troubleshooting Guide, not PC's for Dummies Redux by ramsj900 · · Score: 1

    Isn't your idea that providing a better-written "PC's for dummies" book solving your Mother's inability to understand IT, as flawed a concept as her getting you to understand why she doesn't want you to use those pretty small towels in her guest bathroom? Rooted in ignorant bliss, your Mother can not comprehend what is missing from any question she may have that prevents you from providing her with that short easy answer she craves. Generally, the public are too non-scientific to understand computers (and Geeks). The public only enjoys answers based on emotions and opinions. Facts and knowledge just get in the way of a quick and easy solution or answer. Where as Geeks are systematically linear individuals, utilizing cause & effect while incorporating it all into a nice framework of how the nature of the physical world relates to a subject, the Public just wants the thing fixed. It is like when you have just provided the best answer possible to her question, yet your Mother is more perplexed than ever. Bridging the chasm between the scientific and non-scientific worlds is difficult because geeks are pressed to provide succinct non-scientific answers and the public refuses to invest any time in something not needed for daily operation. Without proper background info a geek's answer is meaningless. My suggestion is a non-scientific troubleshooting guide so that when the public has a problem (the only time they ever motivate) there would be support for deciding what to do next. Examples: 1) The company that built your hardware system, may not be the best choice for resolving a proprietary software problem. (don't call Dell if your Adobe Photo Album freezes on start-up) 2) The operating systems manufacturer is not a good place to resolve hardware installation issues (don't call Microsoft if you new ATI All-in- Wonder TV card isn't recognized) 3) Your ISP doesn't provided custom solutions to household IT issues (don't call Cox Communications if you want to run a media file server for your music collection) It seems particularly difficult to get either side to even recognize that somehow the other side in not even on the same theoretical planet. Obviously we all posses some amount of both traits, but they do not harmonize very well. Do you think that have over-simplified the correct solution? I would venture a guess that there is probably more involved than what appears initially for the easy solution you had in mind.

    --
    Relax, aren't you lucky that it is only my Opinion?
  491. Re: Basic File Management by permaculture · · Score: 1

    Woah, that's messed up.

    We had an old lady employee who would print out her email. To communicate with the department she dealt with she would write the address on a brown envelope and snailmail the printout to them. She got through 100s of brown envelopes.

    We showed her how to click on the 'Forward' button to send it on electronically, but it didn't take. A few days later she was printing out email again. Her manager said we should leave her to it. He didn't seem to think it would be possible to get her to change her ways.

    --
    Environmentalism is the new Victorianism. Everyone ties on a green corset and pretends we're virtuous.
  492. Can anyone say spellcheck? by koick · · Score: 1

    You may want to checkout Spellbound.

  493. Re: The Mac is not a typewriter! by digital+photo · · Score: 1

    *grins* I've actually read that. Wow... that was a long time ago. ^_^; A good read for sure, for folks who want to know more about their computers from a "typewriter" starting point.