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Computer Buying Experiences at B&M Stores
bob gnosh writes "The team over at [H] Consumer go into Best Buy, Fry's, CompUSA, and Circuit City and buy a computer at each store. They relate exactly what happened at each store, talk about warranties, and what to do to protect yourself or your friends when buying at these places." From the article: "Navigating these retail stores isn't for the faint of heart or those not armed with the right knowledge beforehand. As much as you'd like to go to your closest strip mall, have a salesperson discern your hardware needs, and walk out with a shiny new computer that does everything but load your dishwasher, such an experience is just not going to happen. Most retail sales people are simply not going to possess the necessary knowledge to correctly recommend or explain every nuance of a piece of hardware."
Um- this sounds like buying most things, from washing machines to cars. Salespeople that aren't knowledgable? No way! You need to research things yourself....
And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
I usually go into Best Buy because I don't want to be bothered by salesman. Alas, my last major experience with them was less than impressive. While I was browsing for a new home router, a salesperson decided to help out. While he did eventually point me toward a nice Netgear Wifi/Switch combo that was well-priced, his technical information left a lot to be desired. He informed me on no uncertain terms that the unit I had been looking at "wouldn't be full speed" because it was "a switch instead of a router." According to him, a switch was a network device that simply splits the signal, thereby allowing only one port to talk at a time. I shook my head and tried to explain that he was thinking of a hub, and that a switch gives full performance on each port. Unfortunately, I had a head cold at the time and probably wasn't very persuasive. He just sort of gave me a look like, "Whatever, dude".
All in all, Best Buy "geeks" (*cough* *sputter*) tend to have the computer knowledge of a third grader who's been throwing around factoids with his friends at lunch in a desparate attempt to arrive at a miniscule of real knowledge. It used to be amusing to ask the sales staff complex questions just to hear their wonderfully made-up answers, but these days I'm far too busy for that sort of nonsense. They would honestly be a lot more helpful if they just gave their recommendation (the same "here's the popular product" one they give everyone) and went away. For everything else they need to either profess ignorance or point the buyer to websites where they can do their own research. (Not that they're actually going to do that. They need to sell overpriced "Geek Squad" cables and useless warranties somehow.) *sigh*
That being said, I feel sorry for the well-intentioned geeks who spend some small portion of their lives with a Best Buy name tag affixed below their lapel. It must be horrifying to be expected to be so disinformative just to sell warranties and accessories.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I am shocked, shocked I say, to see that there are incompetent employees at a retail store.
Is that I can only go on the weekends and it is so crowded at these places that it is impossible to get a salesperson. Same goes for all products, not just computers. And this is tough when you are holding a crying kid.
Not only that, but that's typically not their goal. They're typically on commission, so if grandma comes in looking for a computer, they're not going to try to find a computer to fit her modest needs--they're going to try and give her the biggest, most expensive computer with all the add-ons and extras they can manage. Buying a computer at one of these stores involves (a) knowing what you want, and (b) dodging the sales team's efforts to saddle you with extra stuff that you don't want.
Dlugar
Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
I think they should have also bought a computer an an Apple store to see how they measure up.
...get suckered whether they are buying a car, home, or major appliance. Consumers must be informed to get a deal or merely an adequate system. This will not change unless some volunteer collection of geeks is setup to help norms make buying decisions.
Clearly the submitter has never been to the Apple store. All the mall needs to do is combine Sephora (with all the hot girls) and the Apple store and it would be like a black hole that no one could ever leave from.
This ain't news, this is olds. At best. It was like that 10 years ago and more, except that back then you also had the small computer shops where the people who actually knew a thing or two built your machine to custom specs if you asked for it. Almost all of those have been driven out of business by WalMart, BestBuy, whatever-large-retailer-you-have due to aggressive pricing and, of course, your average Joe "no clue" Doe shopping there because it's $5 cheaper.
The thing is, for the margins of your average retailer, you can't afford quality staff. And that's not just computers, that's everything.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Platinum gets your system "professionally" installed by their techs as well as provides you access to the Platinum-only support line. Prices range from $79 for a two-year Bronze to $269 for a three-year Platinum
$269!!! I can get a much more powerful pc than they speak of in this article, with a 3 yr warranty for just over twice that amount ($500-600) off pricewatch somewhere.
Someone should have gone to the other major Chain and checked out Staples. Most of their Computer department's staff seems to know a decent ammount. Although the last one I was at knew nothing about my RD-Ram.
As a geek, who sometimes doesn't have a life, one of my favorite pasttimes is to pull aside customers and explain to them the amount of bullsh*t that the salesperson just fed them. It's actually quite a lot of fun.
My experience though is that best buy has a comparably small amount of BS. Circuit city certainly has more, but the worse is at the small mom-pop shops. These little places are TERRIBLE! They can't compete on price, so they stay in business by selling old hardware at inflated prices. They must hire used car salesmen to push 2 year old hardware. Buyer beware.
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
No you may ask why is this better for consumers: the reason is that the closer the consumer gets to the point of purchase, the more rational are her communication needs. It's not so much about image or coolness, it's also about "so what does the expansion port look like, and, can I hook this to my laptop etc".
I used to work at a box store that sold computers (nothing to be proud of.
The one thing I learned from that place is: if you want to buy a computer/laptop, always act like you're interested in all the bells and whistles they throw at you till you get to the register. This way they're much less likely to be "out of stock" on an Item. Have an at the counter conversion to decline the extra crap they throw at you, and you're set. That's all they care about, the service plans, it's just free money for them.
I think a better way to say it is; Most shoppers won't pay the prices needed to ensure that retail sales people posses the necessary knowledge to correct recommend and expllain every nuance of a piece of hardware.
I used to have some friends who ran a small computer store. They built machines and sold hardware. They were friendly and knowledgable and did at-home-at-office service calls. Their target was a small but fairly affluent town and they did well for those customers who realized that "cheap" and "quality service" are often words not uttered in the same sentence.
When they saturatued their small town they were not effective at finding more customers that fit their demographic. The tried to compete with Best Buy and Dell and they failed miserably because at the end of the day they couldn't justify selling a computer for $20 profit.
They could answer a customer's question knowledgably and spend the time needed to make sure the customer ended up with a very good fit for their needs. They just couldn't find enough customers who were willing to pay for this level of knowledge and personal service.
Here's why
You get what you pay for. $7.00 an hour worth of advice from a 16 year old is like?......
Allthough most 16 year olds are extremely knowledgeable about PC's they don't sell the customer what he or she needs but rather what is supposed to be pushed for that month. Not to mention the upsales pitch like extended warranty.
Since most consumers are mostly clueless when it comes to buying a PC they really just look at the sales adds with all the rebates that you are supposed to send in after you purchase the machine and the compnay hopes you never send in.
Think buying a car is bad, computers are the worst because the technology changes so fast and mass produced machines for the masses are good enough for what most people use them for. Surfing the internet and checking thier email.
Power users get a machine built or rather they buy thier own parts and piece it together themselves.
Most retail sales people are simply not going to possess the necessary knowledge to correctly recommend or explain every nuance of a piece of hardware.
Yup, and this isn't just true of computers.
Circuit City sells audio equipment, for example. How many salesmen there know the first thing about any of it? My experience has been zero.
Try asking someone in a Wal-Mart a question about their bicycles.
The replacement of speciality stores with larger, general-purpose stores has, in my opinion, vastly reduced the amount of domain knowledge that the salesmen offer. Of course, it costs more to have salesmen with domain knowledge, and general-purpose stores pass on much of those savings to you, so it's a tradeoff...
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
A friend of mine once said, after I told him about some bad experiences with computer salesmen: "If you know anything about computers, you're not going to work in a computer shop." He's right of course; you can make much more money elsewhere if you know anything about computers.
-- Cheers!
I used to work at Staples during College. They didn't care how many computers, laptops, printers, etc. I sold ... all they cared about was warranties. Honest to gosh, and it really pissed me off, everytime a computer, laptop, or printer walked out of the store without a warranty, my on-floor manager would walk over and give me a lecture ... trying to tell me how to better pitch the warranty so that it wouldn't happen again. I even had one on-floor manager who told me I should never let a customer leave without a warranty ... tell them whatever it takes ... tell them the pc won't last, whatever ... just don't let them leave without that warranty.
...the sales thingies will try and sell you whatever product gives them the most commission. If it's straight up sales percentage they'll try and sell you something that's a lot more than you need, but sometimes there's a dog they're trying to get rid of, so they'll sell you that.
Don't let them con you into buying extended warranties though. You might as well burn $20 bills right then and there, for all it's worth.
My sig is too lon
My experience has been nothing but good in there (Regent Street), but others have reported problems so I'm perfectly happy to believe I've just been lucky and that flaws exist.
Not a fan post claiming superiority or anything, it's just something I would have been curious to see. Apple make a lot of their 'shopping experience' (ugh, really dislike using the experience word) and it would have been interesting to see how they stacked up.
Cheers,
Ian
BTW, for those who were wondering -- "B&M" is "brick and mortar". (And "BTW" is "by the way".) I'd thought the HardOCP guys had gotten confused and tried to by a computer at H&M and then either the submitter or Zonk had misspelled it.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
"Linksys is the company that invented networking and wrote all the specs for the wireless stuff"
Now, I don't expect that everyone should know WHY a certain brand of anything is better than it's competitors, but spreading misinformation just to sound like you know what you're talking about and sell something?
A friend of mine was buying a printer at Best Buy a few years ago and needed a USB cable to go with it. The sales drone tried to convince him that he needed to buy one of the "gold" cables... and that going with a cheaper "silver" USB cable would result in blurry photograph prints. My friend (a computer engineer) almost started to explain about digital signals and all that, but decided it was pointless.
First against the wall when the revolution comes
The "printable" link, text is all in one page and no ads:
= MTAzOQ==
/too/ hard on the employee who mentions it to you, their job is on the line.
http://consumer.hardocp.com/articleprint.html?art
On another note, I used to work at Best Buy. I really needed a job at the time and couldn't find work anywhere else. I certainly know my stuff about computer hardware and software, so did a few other employees. One was even a computer science major fresh out of university just waiting for a real job opportunity to come by. Of course, a few employees knew absolutely nothing. So it's sort of a mixed bag, you could get lucky and find an honest and knowledgeable salesperson or you could get someone who knows nothing about computers and just wants to sell you an extended warranty.
On that note, stores are given a quota of extended warranty sales per day (usually they want 10% of profits to be extended warranty. Extended warranties are a major cash cow for these stores. Thus, employees (especially computer and home theatre) are told to promote the extended warranty and go through the checklist of it's features to EVERY customer, even if they flat out refuse upon first mention. So try not to go
My recommendation: buy online, avoid the sales pitch, do the research yourself.
Ha! I love it! I work at a major store as a big-shot manager type, and I found this article interesting for a number of reasons. What the article describes is a very common problem. The people who truly know about these computers are not working in retail. So, you try to hire people who sound like they know what they're doing and sometimes train them on the rest. The stores with the best trained staff consistantly outperform poorly trained stores. A lack of training often implies a cost leader strategy by the company, and cost leaders rarely outperform quality leaders' profit margins. However, cost leaders can make more profit by volume. Best Buy, in particular, has isolated those who truly understand computers and created a "Geek Squad" that does not spend much time on the sales floor. They want the knowledgable staff to work on the higher margin tech support tasks rather than the low margin sales track. Geeks tend to be better geeks than salespeople.
P.S. Commissioned sales staff tend to make a LOT more money than non-commission. Personal shoppers often work on commission, and their higher payrate gives them more weight to fight for you (the customer) when going through beauracracy or other paperwork functions.
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Did any one that reads Slashdot not know this?
It has since closed down, but it was almost a game going to the Future Shop in Eugene, Oregon. For instance I went in to help my Dad get a printer for his computer. Salesman almost immediatly walks out sounding off how this certain printer was great, and oddly enough one of the most expensive. He continues to go on for about 5 minutes about how he got it for his dads computer never had any problems, works great, blah blah blah.
Cut to a few days later, I go in the next day to get some game or something. I over hear a different salesperson talking someone about a monitor. He continues to go on for about 5 minutes about how he got it for his dads computer never had any problems, works great, blah blah blah. You will notice the verbaitem cut and paste from above. Yep same spiel as the first sales guy almost exactly word for word. It seems, like most sales peoiple those at future shop lacked a soul and just had a clonded soul implanted from a master super salesman. Well maybe not, but I heard that same story a few more times. It has been a while, but I think it was five times I heard that.
get monkeys!
why would anyone who is sufficiently skilled in computers want to work for 6$hr in a retail store ?, you get what you pay for, unfortunatly CE* executives are more valued than people who are actually make the company a success (ie get the job done)
Do people actually think that they will get great service and knowledgeable reps when buying a PC from a chain where they hire people at $5.00 an hour?
Come on now!
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Points in the article about reps giving out wrong information (whether it be through ignorance or malice) are all too true. I bought a Toshiba laptop at Best Buy a couple of months ago. Of course, when talking to the salesperson about purchasing it, they gave me a sheet of paper to sign up for all kinds of extra services.
One service they (there ended up being like 3 reps talking to me about it all at once) tried to push was this one where I could get as many battery replacements as I needed for I think it was the next 2 years. I was interested until they said it was like $300 extra, but at that point they really wanted to sell me that thing. I decided to check their knowledge/honesty. Having done my homework and being armed with the knowledge that battery prices for that model were $100 - $150, I asked the salesperson how much a battery would run me.
"Oh wow for those Toshibas those things are expensive. Gosh I think they're about $300 bucks or so, I personally recommend this one since its such a good deal".
I politely declined the offer, bought the laptop (hey it was a great deal), and haven't walked back into Best Buy since.
On the 0th day, God created C
Back in college I worked at Circuit City. I was a sales person in the computer department.
We wore a tie, blue blazer and had a name tag with stickers based on our certifications. They actually sent us for week long training at different times or when new products came out. We were tested and didn't receive each "icon" without passing the tests.
Granted, most of it wasn't difficult but it did require some general understanding of what you were doing! I was the only person in my store certified to handle the installs - I used to make so much money just installing graphics cards, etc. These days - how do you know the person knows what to do?
Best Buy introduced the "no hassle" shopping experience. They looked at things from a perspective of "everyone is an hourly employee, no specialized training - all you need to know how to do is work a cash register".
People who were in a hurry (most of the US these days) seemed to like the Best Buy way of shopping better than dealing with someone who could actually help them so Circuit City ended up switching over to the same business model. Notice the blue blazers and ties are gone? Replaced with kids in red polo style shirts who can barely point you in the right direction to find a product.
But hey, this is what America wanted. They didn't want to be bothered by someone asking them questions about what they needed.
Granted, some of the guys at CC did seem like used car salesmen but there were some that were very good at their job.
Don't waste your time reading it. It contains statements like this:
After flagging down a second Best Buy representative and asking about upgrading the memory in the particular system, he explained we could upgrade the memory, but he didnt know the price. He told us he would find out, and promptly left. He never returned with the information.
But he did, in fact, return later:
At this time, the second representative we asked about upgraded memory pricing returned with an answer.
Obviously nobody took him seriously, because he was a 12-year old child, judging by his writing.
The only decent advice of the article, is that when you have a technical question, ask for a technician. You need to consider that most people on the floor are salespeople, and aren't experts in any particular field. A real expert in IT would be working somewhere that would pay a lot more. Especially when you look at the state of technology these days, with DDR, DDR2, PCI-X...etc Why would someone with no interest in computers be expected to know this, when they are also selling a range of other items.
The article was more in-depth than I had imagined it would be. However, it leaves out the simple explanations for inadequate expertise in these stores.
While the Best Buy experience was inexcusable, the other stores seemed to have pretty good service, even if their expertise was less than ideal. But their expertise only needs to be limited.
First, retail is not the line of work you want to go into to get rich. Unless you're in management (at which point you're not talking with the customers), if you're well versed in computer hardware you can probably do better for yourself somewhere else where you'll enjoy greater pay, less hassle, and better hours. If you're in high school or college and need to raise some cash and already like computers, it's not a bad fit, but I would never expect to find a graphics card guru at my local electronics store.
Second, most consumers buying computers don't care to be educated in their choices beyond avoiding a bad choice. As long as the computer runs what they need to and won't break, that's all they really care about. One exception in this might be laptops, although I imagine discerning businesses are not getting their laptops from Circuit City but some other source. (At which point a knowledgeable salesperson is useful, as they are selling dozens of these systems at any one time). Knowledgeable consumers, expecting uninformed salespeople at retail locations, will research first and may have limited their choices to only a few models once they get in the store.
Third, with the exception of gamers, most people would have almost the same experience with any random computer that you select out of a store. As the article suggests, most people just want to go on the internet, check email, and run basic applications (Office, The Sims). There's no one computer that's best for that.
Therefore, retail stores don't need to have experts on hand to assist everyone. It would be nice for them to know some of the basics and you certainly want them to be honest to the extent where it doesn't hinder their job, but not much more is needed.
And if you really ache for that one-on-one advice, get in contact with a speciality seller like WidowPC or better yet, visit your local computer shop run by a bunch of geeks in shorts and ponytails, who will probably not steer you wrong.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
Speaking as techsupport in the realestate industry I can say with confidence you are SO wrong. The 80/20 rule applies there as it does anywhere else, and the lure of easy money brings alot of unqualified people.
But I think it is posted on /. just to start a flame war /queue BBsucks, CCsucks, etc
This sounds like a business opportunity. Become a professional computer shopper for a consulting fee.
I worked for OfficeMax on a couple of occasions in their Electronics department and was the authority on computers. Of ocurse their selection was not huge and it was easy to keep up with the differences between models, though usually customers were more interested in the price tags. At the time, the first GB hard drives were coming out and I couldn't imagine why someone would need all that room (can we say "software bloat" boys and girls?).
It was a considerable challenge to make the differences between machines evident to the non-computer person. Numbers are daunting and don't even go into acronyms. I made sure to stay up on things so I could anticipate the more technical users, but we hardly ever got those kind of customer. I always told the other associates that you should never try to bullsh*t the customers, but try to be helpful and remember to say "I don't know" when you don't honestly know. I found a lot of people returned to the store to buy from us simply because we treated them well, not always because we had the best price.
Of course today, you get either A) the guy out to pad his commission, who won't leave you alone, even after you make it clear you know more than he does about the machines, B) the slacker who is there to earn money because his parents cut him off and he'd rather be doing anything other than helping or customers or C) the guy who knows about 5 computer phrases and is pretty good at making up the rest as he goes along. For that eason, I order on-line now.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
I feel your pain.
In highschool, I volunteered at a local computer repair shop for a couple years. I learned quite a bit about computer repair there, and eventually when I need a job, I used this knowledge to get a sales position at a brick & mortar.
I was astounded by the lack of knowledge my associates had. They knew quite a bit about selling computers, but not much at all about what a computer can do. There was plenty of talk about selling the 'right' machineto the customer, but this always ended up being the highest thing in their budget range.
It was amazing how often this WAS a close match because of simple economics, but more information hardly even enterred the equation. (The exception to this was printers.)
It was also amazing how very little my in-depth knowledge helped choose the 'right' machine for the customer. It helped a TON in selling it, but none in what I considered important. (And what most customers SHOULD consider important.)
I may be exagerating a bit, I suppose, because I was always able to tell a customer what a machine could and could not do, and what it would take to get each machine up to that level. But it just never seemed to really factor into the buy decision.
The one thing I absolutely hated was selling insurance. They can call that piece of paper whatever they want, but it's insurance. We were told not to force it on the customer, but to always recommend it.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
So I don't know what their sales people are like. If they are anything like they used to be, years ago when I shopped there, then the majority are fucking idiots.
When I shop at an actual physical store, I go to CompUSA. I don't think they (as a stereotype) are any more informed as to the technology, and with the limited number of actual questions I've asked, they don't seem to even know the contents of their own stock. It does seem to have far more variety than Best Buy's offerings, so something you can't find at Best Buy might very well be stocked by CompUSA.
CompUSA does seem to be less of a zoo, however. I always remember Best Buy as being a complete fucking zoo. And CompUSA's website doesn't require cookies or java/script to use, so that's always a fucking +10 to security, for me.
So, in summary:
Worst Buy can cram it up their ass. Sideways.
CompUSA is where I shop.
Speaking as techsupport in the realestate industry I can say with confidence you are SO wrong. The 80/20 rule applies there as it does anywhere else, and the lure of easy money brings alot of unqualified people.
You certainly have more experience in that industry, but I brought up that example only because I've had nothing but great luck with real estate agents -- people who knew everything about their city, could properly interpret my needs and correlate them with available homes, who could offer suggestions on the homes, and who confidently and knowledgeably dealt with the legal and regulatory issues. My experience doesn't portend to it being universal, however I contrast it to other industries where the "salespeople" know less than I do about the products in question, and whose goal seems to swoop in once I make a decision to get their name on the bill.
I've been there and here's a tip: Don't ask for the "extra RAM" unless you're sure you can handle it.
WEebl already did it, in a much more informative and funny way! http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk/upgrade%202.htm
...is when the retail rep asks "What are you going to use the computer for?" I try to toss out a generic answer like "Programming" but that invites more annoying questions like "Well, what type of programming?" It's obvious to me the sales person wants to dazzle me with their expertise in recommending the perfect model for "programming". So whatever, I say "Web programming." Then fun starts because then the ever knowledgable sales person actually points at a specific computer further down the shelf (where the screens are little bigger and the price tags have a few extra digits) and declares "This is one is the best for web programs." Why? I have to ask, purely curious as to how skillfully they can massage a pile of crap into an answer. "That other one is not as fast. See this one is faster for web programs. And this one also has more graphics which is better for like web..." and so on. For my further amusement I have to ask "Does this one have more internet? I need more internet." just to hear incredibly stupid answers like "Yes, this one has more internet." Ok, let's click up the stupidity dial even further: "What about like, email? Does this one have email?" Now the sales person is going to be honest and assure you that "They all have email... but this one has better email." And so on.
I worked at an office supply store for about 2 years, and I of course had to sell the extended warranties or "product replacement plans" as we referred to them as. While I agree that on many products the plan is not a good value, on some products it can be good to have. I have built many a custom PC, but when my Dad went to buy a new PC for home, I got him a good deal on a closeout, and persuaded him to get the service plan(129.00). 1 year later, all sorts of things started failing, requiring replacement of the motherboard, power supply, cpu cooler/fan, and other items. All this was replaced for free, and they even sent someone out to do it. Let me tell you, after a long hard day at work, the last thing I want to do is work inside an HP computer. Plus, the thing is still covered for another year. Since I no longer live at home, it's hard to find time to make the drive and fix their computer; with the service plan, I don't have to. Now, with all that said, I never but the plans myself, (except the applecare plans - I couldn't help it, the salesgirl was so nice), and I always do the research on products before going into the store and mocking the salespeople for their lack of knowledge.
This space intentionally left blank.
... I didn't see in TFA, was any mention of the missing installation media. With all the recent brouhaha with the Geek Squad, I've seen shitloads of claims that (re)installation media is only included when an extended warranty is purchased, or it's outright missing period (see google). The claims have also been made that the reason is so that BB GS can charge more for "repairs" when the customer has no (re)installation media.
I'd like to see/hear more about that myself.
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
Secondly they move people around the store regardless of their knowledge. I wanted to go to the Geek Squad because i did know my way around the inside of a computer and the software. Again, many of the people hired up there didn't know to much. Some were meant only to run half automated "diagnostic" programs and install software. Only a few of us back there actually could fix a computer.
Due to little hours, i was "forced" to go work in a different dept. I was put in Digital Imaging. This was not one of my more knowledgable area. The only reason i was there was to pay my bills. Thanks to a sparked interest in the area and lots of external research, i do know a lot more than most of the other employees in that area.
Best Buy does not offer adequate training to its employees. The training provided is in the form of a online articles and quizzes. Although these are mandatory, they are easily skipped through. Also the articles for computer and cameras are generally outdated to the current hardware on the shelf. This is the only form of technical knowledge training given.
Another thing to consider is that the majority of people coming in to buy a computer have little or no technical knowledge. When asked a question such as "what is hyperthreading?" Most, including myself, resort to a very simple non-technical answer as to not confuse the customer. This is adequate for 90% of the customers. The other 10% first see you as someone without a large amount of computer knowledge. When i can identify the person with a higher knowledge of computers, i tend to use more technical terms and more indepth explainations. Also i do understand that the majority of people at best buy do not have the knowledge for more technical terms and explainations.
As a college student, this is only a job to pay the bills. Most knowledgable people in my store are the same way. The ones that actually know what they're talking about don't usually stick around that long. Just enough to get through school or land a good internship/co-op. All of these reasons would contribute to why many sales associates don't have much computer know-how.
It's not "retail stores" that are the problem, its the "big box" stores that cause these impressions.
You have a choice when you shop:
Big box: large selection, lower price, low service
local store: smaller selection (in stock), higher price, excellent service
A local retailer that only has a few stores tends to hire much more knowledgeable people. Granted, you're going to pay a bit more for the products, but that's what it costs to hire people who love what they do. The in-store selection will be smaller but chances are the local retailer can custom order almost any item you desire from their distributors if you are willing to wait a few days to a week or two.
I emplore you, though, do NOT pick the brain of your local retailer's expert for 2 hours only to turn around and purchase the item on the internet or at a big box store. You've now wasted the person's time and effectively stolen consulting services from them. Again... it costs more money to hire people who know what they are talking about. The smaller stores are not trying to rob or over charge you, they just don't do the volume to get discounts from the distributors.
BTW: It's not the large retailers, like Walmart, that put small stores out of business; it's the people who decide that low cost and mediocre service are more important than intelligent sales help.
What gets my gall is when people purchase from a big box but expect me, in my local shop, to provide free technical support to them. Many people get quite pissy when I tell them this is why my price is higher, I actually know what I'm taking about and can actually help (in most cases).
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
It struck me reading about "loaner computers" -- imagine if you swapped out your current computer with one that was identical but without any of your data.
Obviously they can't guarantee they will save your data, but they should at least try. I mean, if your car burns up under warranty, you can't expect that they'll be able to save your CD's and photos. Likewise, barring hard drive failure, the data should all be intact and able to be moved to a new system.
--- Jason Olshefsky
Karma: Poser (mostly affected by adding this line long after everyone else did)
When I was hanging around in computer stores in the lear 1980's the local sales guys didn't have any clue about what they were selling. There was only one computer store within a hour's drive where you could get real answers to real questions.
Corporate Amerika squeezes and squeezes until the people facing customers are the ones with no knowledge, no ambition, and not able to make a living any other way. The dregs of the workforce. Then you'll hear store managers lament about how hard it is to find anyone who wants to work, or politicians spout off about illegal immigrants do the jobs citizens don't want. Correct from the standpoint that Americans don't want to make 2 dollars an hour for picking fruit 10 hours a day. While you hear young people complain there aren't any jobs!
Pay them a realistic wage and you'll find lots of people willing to work. You might even find some *gasp* qualified applicants.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Does anyone expect a commissioned salesperson to provide unbiased advice?
I put myself through college working at CompUSA by peddling 5 year warranties on PCs and laptops. I would concentrate on the three best PCs and 2 best laptops that were in stock and sell only those machines. Typically I'd sell the warranty before the people even saw the computer. I never really had to lie, people are wary of computers and would rarely balk at the warranty unless the salesman is an idiot. (Which most salesmen are)
Was I selling the best possible product? Sometimes... the best PCs at the time were custom-configured machines from places like Dell. But I mostly sold Toshiba laptops which were top-notch. Even that wasn't really all that important... my job was to sell my employer's inventory.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
I refuse to set foot in a CompUSA after having been ripped off by them. I received a router as a Christmas present and found that it was DOA when I plugged it in. I took it back to CompUSA and, since I didn't have a receipt, they refused to exchange it for a working model. I wasn't looking for cash or even store credit - I just wanted a working router. Since then, I've discovered they charge exorbitant "restocking fees". One friend opened the box with his new Imac and found it was cracked. Compusa charged him $200 to replace it with an unbroken Imac. How this is legal, I don't know. They're low-life pirates and I'll never shop there. I take every opportunity to direct people to alternate stores.
It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
Your point falls apart. Without commission motivating them, the salesperson has no reason to sell any more than is necessary.
"Regardless, my point stands--these companies don't encourage salespeople to sell you the system that is best for your needs, they encourage salespeople to sell you the most expensive system they think they can get you to buy."
Well, no shit genius. But again, without a commission, the salesperson has no problem at all simply selling them what they want.
You were wrong. Stop acting like your point is anything but bullshit in a vain and unsuccessful attempt to give the appearance that you know what you're rambling about.
That's the single reason why I don't shop there anymore: 50 people in line, and only 2 open checkout lanes. A half-hour wait to patronize their business? I don't think so. As long as they consider my time worthless, I will consider their store worthless.
I applaud the amount of effort the author(s) put into this research. I especially found their summary of warrantees a useful bullet.
;-). Yes, this is very anecdotal, but I tell this story to illustrate that nitpicking the salesforce at a B&M store is useless. In fact, unless you go to a specialty store, ANY GENERIC RETAIL SALESFORCE IS CLUELESS! This holds for kitchen appliances (Target), or power tools (Home Depot), bicycles, televisions, etc. I re-realized this when I was shopping for a table saw: The Home Depot doesn't know shit, they sell volume; but the Contracter Tool Supply store spent two hours with two staff members teaching me everything, in explicit detail.
However, I think they approached this as if they were grading the marketing propaganda. What I mean is this: they zeroed in on specifics, marketing specifics: 64 vs 32 bit, Vista, video cards for games, memory upgrades. Asking these sorts of questions is testing to see how well the salespeople know the marketing icons, and if they are gamers.
This is useless: no human being can explain how this marketing BS translates to real-world usage to a newbie in a 30 minute sales session, and no non-newbie is going to ask these questions.
I worked in retail for about a decade and went to many sales conferences. One thing I learned is: it's all about price point. Everyone has a threshold they are willing to spend, and the sales/marketing force tries to push them as high as possible. In my experience in bicycle retail, ~80% of the customers would be more than satisfied with anything at their price point. Pushing them to the next price point serves no one but the salesperson (my commission!).
In my recent experience recommending a computer to a seriously NON TECHIE people, I've found the same is true. Most of these folk were ready to fork over up to $1,000 (thinking there were no machines $1000). I've recommended this approach for 7 or 8 people, two were relatives. Basically, pick the best warantee and buy the machine at your price point.
100% were happy (3/4 bought a DELLs, 1/4 bought an candy-colored iMac
If you really want to be educated, go to a store that specializes in only what you want to buy. Don't rely on generic high-volume retail malls to give you any real information.
I think that is the real conclusion of this B&M research.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Although the read was very interesting, I'll have to say that the reviewers didn't get to review Micro Center, which is another computer store. Thats understandable, considering that Micro Center only has 20 locations in like 14 states, but they could have driven to North Dallas and went to one there. I mean, if they took the time to create an extensive analysis about these B&M stores, they should have included all of the major companies, not just the ones in a local area. Austin isn't even that much electronically competitive compared to Dallas-Fort Worth, which is arguably the 2nd most electronically competitive area (I believe Tokyo, Japan, is first) in the world.
I've always had good experiences at Micro Center. Their sales staff are very informed, they don't push you too much to buy something, they offer excellent extended warranties, and their merchandise is very easy to find. MC is probably one of few stores I've been in that has a very good PC components section (including a dedicated case mod section for the leet). Their technicians are all certified, and even some of their sales staff have COMPTIA or Cisco certs. Their book department is HUGE.
I absolutely despise Frys Electronics, which treats you as a number rather as a person. They have too much off-brand products and their sales staff turnover rate is one of the highest in the nation (rate of firing people and hiring people). The only thing Frys is good for is to attract those damn cheap-skates who think 20 bucks for a wireless keyboard and mouse combo isn't cheap enough. I can't stand those people.
Gee, could that be because Best Buy is not a computer store, perhaps?
If you want to buy a computer, go to a real computer store. We've all seen them, with the tiny shop space, store room in the back, fat white guy / skinny Chinese guy behind the counter, a few motherboards under glass and a price list printed out on a sheet of letter paper stuck to the counter with old tape. "We don't advertise" mumbles the sales guy, something about word of mouth being his best sales pitch, and from the looks of the greasy hordes in line behind you it seems to be working.
If you want a job done right, go to someone who does only that job, all day, every day. That someone would not be Circuit City guy, unless the job you want done somehow involves MONSTAR CABEL.
Am I the only one who heard Roxette to sing "I'm gonna get blitzed for some sex"?
Indeed, sometimes I've been known to interject with a salesperson right in the middle of his/her running spiel.
:-)
"Actually, if you just want to do X you can buy one of these guys over here for 20% less" or "actually, it sounds like he's trying to Y and that item won't work for him because..."
And my favorite "that's a good project, but did you know that Z has them on sale for 75% of the price here"
I went to CompUSA a few months ago to pick up a computer that was on sale. I'm a graduate student in computer science. I found an employee and had him bring out the box, and while he was writing up the sale, he asked me, "You aren't planning on using this for anything like Excel, are you?" "Well, yes" I tell him, and he replies "You know, this machine uses a non-mathical processor, do you know how that will work?" He actually said NON-MATHICAL! The idiot was trying to suggest that because the computer I was buying had a Sempron, it was incapable of doing math, so I'd better upgrade to something "mathical."
I haven't bought a computer at a B&M in 5 years (last one was at PC Club), but I've bought consumer electronics.
My last two video cameras were bought at Circuit City (Canoga Park, CA). In both cases, the salesperson asked me what my intended use was, and actually steered me away from some of the higher priced bells and whistles, to a more reasonably priced item. I was very pleased with this type of service.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Mindless link propagation: various composite and s-video cables.
At the time, the first GB hard drives were coming out and I couldn't imagine why someone would need all that room (can we say "software bloat" boys and girls?).
:-)
That's where you would got for the big sell though. Find a customer hooking up on higher-speed internet service (or in those days, I suppose buying a fast 56k V90 modem would do) and tell them how much extra pr0n and music downloads they could fit on a 1GB drive. Easy sell
Funny, I used to live in Austin, so I have shopped at all three of these stores. Out of all of them Fry's pertends to be the most 'geeky' but if you ask any technical question you don't get an answer. This is true when I asked in the Computer section, the hardware section, wireless and yes, Apple. Not trying to sound 'glib' but I knew more than these folks, so when I had a question of something I didn't know, they didn't either. This was frustrating, but since I know how to 'use the internet' I am able to learn/get advice from there, and then go buy.
That way when they try to 'upsell' you, you know it's just a sales pitch and that you really don't need ${FEATURE} since you'll never have any use to ${FEATURE_DESC}.
This does point to 'regular' folks going to buy computers; they're not going to get what they want, because they don't know what they want. I've walked a few friends/relatives thru computer purchases to insure they get what they need, and not more. Of course I think this is going to be true of anything; refridgerators, power saw, car...so I don't think this is a big revelation. Fun article though, I could just hear the subwoofers from the car audio section while I was reading!
fak3r.com
"As much as you'd like to go to your closest strip mall, have a salesperson discern your hardware needs, and walk out with a shiny new computer..."
No, I think I'd rather rub my head with a cheese grater while chewing on aluminum foil.
I used to work for Staples and the two stores I worked in and other I've gone in had, the majority of the time, people who knew what they were talking about.
Staples tried to cross-train all their employess and managers in all departments. Therefore if the Business Machines guy was busy someone from furniture, copy center, office supplies, or even managers could come over and help. I tried to never talk down to a customer (I'm a very bad teacher. I just can't.) but sometimes customers ask stupid questions. But on the other hand if we had a customer with a clue, we were told to fish for what he wants, but let him/her run the conversation. It's just more professional. Customer is always right.
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
Places like Best Buy are not going to pay people enough to attract those with the necessary skills and knowledge to properly find a computer solution for the "average Joe".
In this day and age of the "$299" PC, and store rebates, the manufacturers are just as responsible for this injustice as the schlubs that sell them. When you cut out key components like RAM, CPU power (Celeron instead of Pentium) and using crappy all in one main boards, then add an incompetant sales rep, it's a recipe for disaster. I tell all my friends and family to have someone build a PC.
Of course the customer is always looking for the deal of the century. When you walk in to a Kia dealership, they can't sell you a BMW (unless maybe a used one). The Best Buy, Ciruit City brands are the names they trust for electronics goodies, there for that's the first place they go.
I still build custom PC's for people (not just gamers) and I have systems that have been out there for 4 or more years. Simply because 1: I use quality, proven parts, and 2: I ask the right questions to find out what people are going to use the machine for.
Micro Center is great. I live 5 minutes from a Circuit City, and 15-20 minutes away from a Best Buy and a CompUSA. But when I need something and don't want to or can't wait for it to be shipped from one of my usual mail order vendors, I drive an for hour to the Philadelphia-area Micro Center.
It's clean, well-stocked, well-staffed, and they have a good Mac department (though that's less important now that Apple has their own retail stores). I usually end up browsing for at least 30-45 minutes, and I seldom leave with just the item I came for.
The only time I'll shop at the other chains is if I desperately need an item, or I'm spending other people's money.
~Philly
How do they know the hardware was even bought their?
I am a former emloyee of Best Buy. All of their sales and technical support ("Geek Squad") actually are andated to complete online Comuter based Training. Needless to say... it is written at a 3rd graders level, extremely misleading, and technically inapt. They are not taught technical knowledge, they are taught sale methodologies, and how it impacts their department. With this in mind they can ensure themselves theri bonuses for the quarter.
I was working loss prevention at the time. I mentioned to sales managers and operations managers that the techs needed to wear ESD straps at any time when opening equipment, especially equipment that isnt covered under warranty by Best Buy, or owned by Best Buy. I encouraged this becasue it is industry standard to do so, and yes in fact, it looks good to the consumer that techs take proper precautions when installing components. This is a confidence boost to the consumer and raises the reputation level of the techs. Of course they didnt pay any attention to me and called me an idiot... Sigh... Yea of course techs were fired as a constant amount of machined kept coming back in from damage done to them whlie BBY worked on them. Yea, not a smart idea to install components with the power cable still plugged in. Needless to say Ive been in computer maintenance / network admin for the USAF for 6 years adn currently work for Cisco Systems. I quit the job after they asked me to com in at 5 am on a saturday to train the techs, but denied me the opportunity to work as a tech. Losers.
I'd have to agree too. I work at best buy (which is 5 minutes away), and i'm 5 minutes from CompUSA, and Circuit City. Microcenter is about 30 minutes away and worth the trip when i have the time. Great selection and relatively knowledgable employees. Prices aren't to bad either. Microcenter is my favorite of all the B&M stores.
Given that the technical savvy of the staff can be spotty, I'm still old school enough to want to kick the tires of any prospective purchase I'm considering.
Granted, I buy a lot of stuff off the net but mostly commodity items or things I have examined in a B&M beforehand.
Not meaning to sound like an "anti-Walmart foil hat" kind of person, I still prefer to deal with a face instead of a URL for my important/ expensive purchases (gives me someone to yell at and a place to throw the product through the window of if it goes FUBAR).
I guess I'm lucky, my preferred physical vendor is a M&P (mom and pop) store thats' owner has a PHD in CS and loves to chew the fat about tech stuff, kinda like the old hardware store days.
As far as the chain stores go, there usually is a "guru" there that the drone staff will steer you to if your questions get too complicated.
What, me worry?
Geek Squad was an outfit in the Twin Cities, which is also where Best Buy is HQ'd. They weren't "created" buy Best Buy.
like alot of posters, i worked in an electronics store when i was at school. It wasn't so long ago maybe from 94 through to 99. The store was part of a national chain of electronics stores named after an Aussie icon. This store sold everything from resistors to televisions, so at a minimum the sales people knew how to find the right little plastic thing when asked for a particular mosfet, and which cable went from the printer to the PC.
When i first started I thought they didn't really give much of a toss about the product knownledge of their sales team, but what did i know i was just kid right? There were semi-regular sales meetings where we learn about new stuff and how to sell it. Reps from the bigger brands would visit and supply training and pizza for all. We were supplied with memos / bulletins / sales briefs / data sheets / channel magazines and encouraged (and sometimes forced) to read them. Probably two of us part timers were streets ahead with computer knowledge (we were both CS students), and actually did PC installs, and even customer training on weekends. Despite commision based wages, the most successful full time sales people actually knew what they were talking about. The store was always busy, the figures were always good (often very good), the customers were mostly happy.
Then one day in last year of my employ there, I was a full timer myself by that point, some suit from the mothership office came to visit for training and we were presented with 'the extended warranty'. In a fairly short period of time the entire face of the operation changed. Product training sessions became 'loss reduction' sessions or 'how to add on' sessions. memos / bulletins / sales briefs refered less to Mhz and ohms and more about 'operational profit'. 'old timer' employees were discouraged from promotion (not sure if this was dileribate, or just that they didn't like them - but they were all loyal employees many with good leadership skills and knew the their stuff). lots of newb kids were hired as the oldies got sick of working there and moved on. When a rep visited, they'd put up some posters give us some glossy brochures and leave - no pizza - no t-shirts. We were told that the descrete component range was slowly being phased out and the cheap-ass television range was slowly being expanded. You know what: a few more unhappy customers but more profit through lower overheads and a sales team focused on puting as much through the till as possible as quickly as possible.
So one day, it all finally got to me, and i got off my lazy butt and took a job in completely different realm (at a considerably lower salary initially) and went on my merry way.
Now from the outside: everytime i went in there i saw different newbs. They frequently had no idea what i was asking for, usually looked pitty disinterested (would you like fries with that) and occasionally they were even rude. A friend of mine who stayed there a lot longer spoke of horror stories like the sales people being put on 'extended warranty quotas', the commission system gone altogether and replaced with 'bonus' for things like contracting mobiles phones or extending more than certain number of warranties.
But you know something, thats not the reason i dont shop there anymore. Nope I don't shop there because from about 10am to 4pm the place is fucking packed, the lines are huge, the sales people are flat out just trying to take peoples cash and bag up their purchases. No one would blame them for not spending any time to explain the differences between various models of cordless phone or ink jet printer. If you asked, you'd be issued a 60$ 'hires colour inkjet', a spare cartridge, some paper and it would be bagged and on your Visa before you could say, 'wtf is DPI anyway'. And when the piece of crap printer dies on your second set of clip-art laden address labels, you wouldnt really mind because you've got that extended warranty after all.
I dont think this change in retailing came from 'what the consumer wanted', it came from what shareholders wanted... It just turns out the average consumer can be fooled into being satisifed.
I went into my local Costco a month ago and asked their computer guy if they had an AMD dual-core machine. His reply was "Does AMD make a dual-core machine?"
I used to work at a Fry's store here in the Los Angeles area. All of the sales people in the computer department were freakin vultures. If it was a slow day, they would roam the aisles and look for customers with any sort of computer related gear in their hand or in their shopping cart. They would walk up to the customer and ask if they've been helped. If the customer said no, they would say.. "Oh let me print out an invoice for you so that you can check out faster at the registers". That's total bullshit right there because the sales people get a commision for every invoice that turns into a sale at the register. Yup, it's easy money for them.. making commissions without even trying. And no, you don't check out faster at the registers.
So if you're ever at a Fry's and a saleperson offers to print out an invoice for you, just ignore them or tell them you're still looking around. Actually, you don't even need an invoice. Even if they grabbed an item for you from the back storage, you don't have any obligation to give them the commission. They intentionally keep some items in the back, so that customers are forced to ask a salesperson for assistance. In those cases, you can just let the salesperson print out an invoice. And when you walk towards the registers, just trash it and let the cashier scan your purchase like normal.
The only time you really need an invoice is when the salesperson gives you a discount for some reason; usually a competitor price match. Another time you need an invoice is when you buy things from "the cage"; RAM, CPU, OEM hard drives, and so on. And you might need an invoice when you buy a small-ish high ticket items like a laptop or digital camera. The salesperson brings those items from the back storage and walks it up to a holding area up front by the registers. When you bring your invoice to the registers, the cashier will grab the item from the holding area and then ring up your purchase.
And here's a tip that not too many people know.. you don't have to stand in those long lines to buy stuff. If you know what you want, call the store and ask for tele-sales. You can make your purchases over the phone. The tele-sales person will build an invoice for you, pull your items from the shelves, and set them aside in the will-call area. And when you come in to the store, just head straight over to the will-call area and pay for your stuff.
Most of the people reading slashdot here are alas, geeks, hacker, and nerds such as myself. When one such as myself goes to buy a new pc, I look at all the avalible options myself. I shop at the Frys of atlanta where the employes don't work off commision. They don't bother me because of this. I know my stuff and could own a frys. So i know what all the terms on the box mean. I'm a gamer so I tend to build pc's myself. anyway. My point is that if you already know pc's, you don't need to do homework or deal with sales people. You just grab the item and your in and out in less then 5 minutes. (after paying of course)
It's not -1 Flamebait! It's +5 Funny. You just didn't get the joke...
I had an experience at CompUSA involving the extended warranty, which I wrote about in my blog. Pretty funny and sad at the same time. You can read about it here (note no ads on the site - I make zero money from it): http://www.wadegolden.com/blog/?p=9
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
I stopped shopping at brick and mortar stores shortly after a salesman tried to sell me on Windows XP.
How?
I was told by a Best Buy drone that I should really consider XP because 'It comes with loads of new wallpapers!'
Yes, I'm dead serious. Those words were actually spoken to me.
When they ask me if I need any help, was to ask them to help me out with the latest DIVX DVD players. I'd say that I remember Circuit City saying ot always ask for DIVX in ther ads and was now interested in one.
Of course this doesn't work much anymore, but a year or two after the DIVX debacle, it was priceless.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
...although not in computers, and not in Texas. (However, the supervisor who hired me became the department manager for computers, and half of my co-workers ended up as salespeople in that department; as a software sales supervisor, I worked fairly closely with them.)
All I have to say about this:
At no time did either of the [Fry's] representatives try to sell or push an extended warranty on us, but did explain the options when we asked.
is that either they were new to the sales department or they were "merchandisers", a second-tier salesperson who doesn't get commissions. Either that, or there's been a major corporate culture shift at Fry's (which would surprise me) because when I worked for them, a computer salesperson lived and died by the number of "performance guarantees" -- Fry's name for extended warranties -- they sold.
We even had periodic visits by the "PG guy" from the corporate office; a smarmy, used-car-salesman type who would do seminars on how to push PGs on people. (Thi$ guy was chee$y enough to u$e dollar $ign$ instead of $'$ in hi$ weekly PG $ale$ email$!)
Funny that you should mention wireless routers...I found a USE for STORE EMPLOYEES!
n t&pa=showpage&pid=6 )
I had the same experience trying to buy wireless routers going from Circuit City to Best Buy. Nobody could open the boxes to let me find which model number one was, and the floor employees were a nuisance who could only read the text on the boxes (and not seem to understand the words they read, but give me bad info while I tried to concentrate).
BUT I was looking for the right model of WRT54GS, and I finally found a use for the employees --helping me read serial numbers off boxes until I found the "good" model (I have a serial# range list from LinkSysInfo http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Conte
Actually, I called first and made clear that I was only interested in particular serial# ranges, and had them put one aside for me-- but they were NOT able to do that either! Once I went into the store and started combing through boxes, I decided that they could help read numbers with me. SUCCESS!
In summary, store employees are useful for reading SMALL bits of numbers or text verbatim -- if you need to read a tiny bit off of three dozen+ boxes, they're the right tool!
But don't ask your parrot to do your spellchecking, and don't ask the BestBuy/Circuit City/etc employees what electronics work together.
BTW, at Circuit City, most were also unable to find their store circular and referred me to the one person at customer service (with a line). At CompUSA (and others) they often can't tell me correctly when a product is on another row/end of row -- they look at the shelves the same as me, as if they have never been there before. Even worse, CompUSA often has 3-4 different prices (shelf/register/circular/box) and the employees only have guesses/fables to explain why or resolve it.
Back when I started college, I worked in a "Computer City", which is I believe, now defunct. There were never many of them. It was an attempt by Tandy Corp (the Radio Shack parent company) to have a big-box computer store.
Anyhow, something one of the salesmen pointed out to me, as a problem they had, and that the store generally had, is that a salesman who is knowledgeable can spend 1/2 hour or an hour working with a customer, educating them, then the customer will go down the street to a store that sells it cheaper (or an online mail-order store) and buy the product.
And so, there might not be any economic incentive for stores to have knowledgeable salespeople who spend time educating consumers who will then turn around and screw them. Another problem is, the stores themselves don't provide much in the way of training opportunities. Sometimes the suppliers (HP, Compaq, etc) might send in someone to provide some training on a specific product.
But, it is basically up to you to train yourself on your own time. Well, that's not that unusual - even in IT you usually train yourself on your own time. But, by the time someone has spent the time to train themselves and become knowledgeable, what's the incentive for them to stay working a crappy $8-10/hr job (possibly with some commission) in sales when they could go get a job in a helpdesk somewhere and work their way up the corporate IT ladder? If they are any good, they will quickly make more money than what they did at that store.
So, consumers, by using stores as education centers without actually *buying* stuff at that store, create no incentive for the store to spend resources training the staff and paying wages to retain a trained staff. The staff, with no incentive from the store, either doesn't train, or trains themselves and gets the hell out. If you're lucky, you will catch a sales person who is in the in-between stage, where they've trained themselves and have knowledge, but haven't yet moved on to better things.
There's a brief window of opportunity there.
While not all cheap computers are like that, I've seen soldered-on CPU/Motherboard combos as recently as the Athlon 2000+ generation. Don't know if anybody's making one now, but even places like newegg used to carry them. I very nearly bought one for an HTPC, because they were unbeatably cheap.
Best Buy employees would benefit from the same advice as you-- just admit you don't know something, and nobody gets misinformed.
I'll try to give the short story.
... five beeps. Uh, oh. That's not good. I turn the system off. Now, I'm worried.
{{Saturday morning, 12:00pm}}
Fry's, Fisher's, IN. 2.5 hours away. After hearing so much about Fry's and their selection, I wanted to check them out. So, I hopped in the car and drove on down. Selection: Great.
An employee tells me they have 0% financing for a year for signing up. I thought, "Hell, Yeah!"
I decided to build a PC. Intel D945PVS MB, Pent D 3.0G, 2 Gig RAM, SATA 300G, 512 Radeon x1600, Quantum Case w/550W PS with temp and 7-fan monitor, USB Keyboard, 75 minute UPS.
As I'm almost finished selecting all my components, another employee informs me that the 0% financing is only good on "Select Items." This kind of annoys me and I almost walk out. But, I really need a new PC to protect my laptop. (I don't want to play games on my LT...heat and all.)
So, I go back to my cart, tell the kid OK. He picks up my MB, selects the 2 GB RAM he said would work with my system then drags me over to the cases. I say I like this one (THe quantum) and he tells me it will work with my MB. I bundle it all up, grab the HD, the vid board and all the other little items.
I was in the store *a while*. I drive 2.5 hours to my house.
{{9:00pm, Arrive home after have dinner out(on the way back, that is)}}
I install my MB, CPU, memory, HD, yadda yadda, then I start to hook up the cables. I get all the cables installed except one. The main power cable. MB has a 24 pin connector. PS has a 20 pin connector. Documentation shows 24 pin connector with 20 wires. Hrm. 20 wires, 24 pins..... I decide to sleep on it. I've been in this business quite a while but I haven't built a system in over 5 years. (6 mnths churn on double technology = (1/2 year * 5 years) yields a lot of progression in that time.)
{{Cue next morning}}
I wake up, think about it for another hour. The kid told me that the PS would work with my system. He seemed knowledgeable. So, I yield to his more recent activities in the hardware world (I'm software now) and I plug in the connector. Hit the main power switch and
I call the store. I speak to someone named Ryan and tell him what's up. He tells me, that they gave me the wrong case/PS combination and to come in and talk to him.
I pack my system up in my car and drive another 2.5 hours south. I get there and find the kid who said, "This is what you need." I told him the power supply is the wrong one for my system. He appologizes and says, "I can't be expected to remember everything." I blink. Twice.
Ryan shows up and is extremely helpful. He shows me the power supplies and I pick out a new NEO modular PS - it's $129.00. He gives it to me at cost ($84.00 BTW). I pay for it. He tells me to take my system over to this "Red Carpet" area where I can use the ESD Mats and straps to install the new PS.
I install it, plug everything in and turn on the power. Nothing happens. Except 5 beeps. Hrm. I look up on the internet station the beep codes - it's a memory issue. Now, I'm very worried that I zapped the memory. We look up some more info on intel's site and find that the memory sold to me is not SPD compliant. They upgrade me to the proper memory for free. I turn the system on and I've got screen - which is more than ever before.
Yes. Now I can enter the BIOS and everything else. Everything seems to be working fine. Releived but still annoyed, I jump into my car and head home for another 2.5 drive north.
Note, this is 10 hours of driving time for one newly purchased PC.
I get home and begin to install MS XP Pro. It goes on no problem. Phew. I'm beggining to relax now; but, I'm still not trusting this system because NO drivers are installed for the board itself. After windows gets installed, I install the driver disk from Intel for the MB.
I insert the CD, it autoruns and a utility pops up to install drivers. I attempt to install them
This story from BoingBoing is pretty cool, if you're interested in how Best Buy actually makes money (and how they reward their salespeople for selling customers crap they don't need): http://www.boingboing.net/2006/02/04/howto_decode_ the_num.html
When looking at PDA's for my father (who live in Europe) at CompUSA (I was boycotting Fry's at the time due to their sales staff), I made the mistake of asking whether the power adapters for Palm's supported 220V. The normal salesperson didn't know, and so got the manager of that department, who told me that the PDA's wouldn't work on 220V like most laptops do because the battery in a PDA is too small to be able to take the extra voltage, whereas the larger battery in a laptop could "handle it". When I asked whether he thought that the voltage from the wall was actually applied directly to the battery, he said that it was. I didn't think it worthwhile to ask if he had ever tried charging a battery in that way.
At that point, I just decided to leave (keeping from laughing too much was a contributing factor to this decision). If a store is going to have such products presented so that one cannot open, or even look at the boxes, and inspect them on one's own, then the store really needs to hire people that have some basic knowledge of things like electricity.
It's been pointed out that anyone who knows anything about computers almost always moves on to a higher paying job where their knowledge is put to better use. Some move into repair, like the Geek Squad, some move into programming, or networking, etc.
I worked for an electronics retailer as a salesman for close to ten years and I can tell you that it shouldn't matter what level of technical expertise the salesperson has because it is extremely unlikely that you'd be the first person to ask them a particular question. Seriously, my job involved answering a lot of the same questions every single day. Do you carry the battery for the Canon model x? How much is it? What's the difference between PCMCIA and PCI? What is a DVD? People would ask these questions dozens of times a day. It is nothing but utter laziness or inattentiveness to their job not find out the answers. It makes their job easier, reduces customer complaints, increases their efficiency, leaves them more time to sell (which for a good salesperson is the enjoyable part of the job) and, in commissioned sales, earns them more money. The odd time you do get a question you haven't heard before, tell the customer you don't know but will find out and grab the manual or play with the product and figure it out. Nine times out of ten the question will come up again and if it doesn't, well, you learned something new.
It seems that no one has any pride in doing a job to the best of their ability anymore. At one time sales was a reputable job and garnered respect. My uncle sold appliances for Eatons (before they went bankrupt, but that's another issue entirely) and he was well respected in the company earned a very good living. Of course, as the years went on the commissions and earnings were cut to compete with discount vendors and the level of service suffered resulting in a cycle of reduced commissions, reduced service, etc. Well, there we go.
But I can see how customers may become confused by the issue.
They didn't seem to have much trouble with Best Buy. Yes, the trouble finding a salesperson, but not the during and after sales trouble. This was my Best Buy computer buying experience a few years ago:
I bought an $400 eMachines computer for my mom at Best Buy. I
swear, they said they weren't on commission, but it took me 45 minutes
to an hour to buy the computer. First, they said the eMachines aren't
reliable and they break down a lot. Well I knew that was BS because
we have 5 or 6 at work and they're all 100% reliable. I wanted to ask
the girl why BB would sell them if they were crap, but I didn't want
to open an alternate avenue of discussion. Anyway, by the time I was
juggled among 2 or 3 different sales people and pounded with the SAME
pitches for software, cables, printers, and of course the DREADED
EXTENDED WARRANTY, it was almost an hour before I got out of ther. So
I finally made it through the checkout and then the asst. manager
chases me out the door telling me I forgot to get the free system
test. There was no way in hell I was going to stand around another 10
or 15 minutes watching them plug the thing up.
The sales drones say they aren't on commission, but they must be
threatened with major bodily harm if they don't sell enough software
and extended warranties!
I went back a month or 2 later to buy another eMachine for my mom's
office computer and I managed to get out in 30 minutes or so since I
already knew what to expect, and it was during the day on a weekday.
Oh, BTW, a good tip I heard: To get the salesmen to notice you,
study the most expensive computer thoughtfully. Then when they ask if
they can help you tell them what you really want to buy.
I work in a store that sells computer products, but just apple and related products. The one thing I dont think everyone thinks about is that alot of the time the most "knowledgeable" sales person can come off as a real jerk by treating the "inferior" customer who knows very little about computers. I am happy to say, i dont see much of this where I work, but I have to call a spade a spade. Sometimes hiring the most knowledgeable person, one that has no people skills, will get you nothing but a sales person with something to prove.
If you are reading a review like this in the first place, then what in the world are you doing buying a computer from Best Buy?
Activation must be a drag, no machine I have ever bought for myself ever needed activation. Ah the lovely VLM xp install discs.
at 10$ 1$ profit
at 70$ 61$ profit
sell 1000 cables at 10$ each, make $1000
sell 50 cables at 70$ each, make $3050
Sell 100 cables at 70$ each, make $6100
sell 500-- do you see why they are 70$? some people WILL NOT WAIT for mailorder.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Service is how small local retailers can make a difference over the big box stores.
I was price shopping for appliances for our new home and yes, Best Buy's prices were slightly less, but they charged extra for delivery, install and removal of the old applicances (if needed), which the local guys did for free. Yes, you could save money from Besy Buy if you have a large truck, dollys, etc, but it was less than $50, and the profits don't stay in town.
I used to work at CompUSA and always had the most sales in equipment and service plans. Why, because I know the hardware and what it does. I explained it in lamens terms so everyone could understand it. I did not lie, though I did use the point that if you use Emachines warranty, you need to pay shipping. I loved that one. But I did rely on the fact that CompUSA was local and you could bring it to us. CompUSA salesmen are trained to attack customers. Not let them hang out and look for you. CompUSA salesmen make commission. I think Circuit City and Fry's people do too. BestBuy though does not which is why they got crappy service. Plus, BestBuy just blows. I was shocked to hear that the CompUSA salesman didn't offer the service. Must of been a n00b. Anywho, the results weren't too shocking, and yes, the rarity of finding a knowledable salesman is slim. Most of them have no clue about what they are selling.
Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
I have found that I have a much higher chance of getting an experienced, knowledgeable staff person to help me if I go during the week.
Retired or career-changing tradesmen apparently don't want to work weekends and holidays.
Showing up early weekday mornings has been great for me. They aren't tired after a day of answering silly questions like mine, and they usually have a large coffee in hand. I get all the help I could ever need.
It got outsourced. That's what pisses me off.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Best Buy is just ignorant all-around. What moronic company has someone arrested for paying with legal $2 bills? ONLY Best Buy, AFAIK.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I went into a Lowes once. Just once. Was shopping for an AC plug end I could put on a cord I had that needed one. The cheapest one was about $8.95. Went to a couple other hardware stores and found the same one for less than $2. Later noticed that for about an entire summer there were picketers outside with a banner complaining about employee treatment. Rule 1 for good customer service in my book is 1) in order to keep your customers happy, you must keep your employees happy. Employee morale shows up in the store and I often take note of it. Never went to Lowes again.
On the other hand, I've noticed that there does seem to be knowledgable staff at OSH, and didn't notice a large discrepancy in prices (though I didn't do a thorough comparison).
The trend away from expert staff is due to the fact that most people prefer to shop on price. The internet has only accellerated this trend. Hardware and furniture are a couple of the holdout industries that have found that you can be successful resisting this trend somewhat, if your customers don't notice your prices are a bit high. OSH and Lowes seem to be bucking the trend, while Home Depot is riding the wave. In my area, there are Home Depot's every few miles it seems, and I only know of one Lowes and one OSH in my area (neither are convenient).
The reason furniture and hardware are holdouts is their biggest customer base is older, and tend to have more expectations of service. Electronics however, is quite the opposite so when a regular OSH customer goes into Frys or Best they are shocked at the difference in service. But those buying on price will go to Home Depot, Frys and Best or other more cutthroat retailers and not notice the difference at all...
On the other hand, the company who HAS figured out how to do service and low price at once is Trader Joes. THEY've got it figured out, though whether or not their techniques would work with electronics or not I don't know. Their employees are always in a REALLY good mood-- not a Moony-cult type good mood though, a *genuinely* good mood. Not sure why but I'll wager it has something to do with the way they are treated by the company. Prices are low because they don't just accept all brands of everything, but hand-select good quality products. I mean, how many brands of cheerios and sodas do you need anyway? They don't rent their shelf space to outsiders, buy in quantity and private label the majority of things so you aren't too confused and/or tempted by brand issues. WRT service-- I remember one day where I was shopping in TJ's and the lines were a bit long though all the checkstands were OPEN (when was the last time you saw THAT in a traditional grocery store). The manager got on the horn and said "all hands on deck-- everyone to the front of the store" or something like that, and all the stock people came up to the front and helped bag and within a couple of minutes the lines were processed and the logjam quickly averted-- only taking a few moments out of the stock people's time to address the problem. I go to TJ's almost exclusively over other grocery retailers-- good service, good products and good price.
This store thing is just in time for this is what happened with me Monday. Had to get a few office supplies, so there was time to look around.
From experience with BB, CC , CompUsa I know their pricing tricks. Time to confirm.
I checked the prices for graphics cards at Circuit City. I did price check on several items. Prices always returned different!
Next, Best Buy. Here I needed to count the salesmen:customer ratio. 1:1 in a small store. No room to shop.
Last stop CompUSA. The trickiest salesmen are found here. Advetised price is a fiasco.
For Houston, FRY'S has the most knowledgeable staff and correct prices. What you see is what you pay for.
Even if you know all the technical crap on the products you need, the stores will get you. Their employees know the game and play along well.
Bottom line? CHEATING is the GAME in STORE for you.
By me me me
I've been very happy at Micro Center (http://www.microcenter.com/). I've recommended their PowerSpec PCs to several people who have all been satisfied. They are also *very* knowledgeable and actually *ask* you if you want help. One guy even looked up the type of mobo in a certain PowerSpec PC for me(!). I can't even begin to imagine the looks on the faces of BB staff if I asked that. It would probaby produce a "let me ask" and never to be seen again response (as in the article).
Granted, I've only been to their Minnesota store, so I'm assuming this is company-wide. You mileage may vary.
And, no, I do not work with/for them or own their stock or haul their trash.
...he probably knows how to drive.
"You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
This idiot society will fall for anything. I worked in computer sales for a year before I moved on to IT networks.
The thing is if you can sound convincing the customer will buy from you. Hell you can even make up some bloated shit like "This system will host a OSI layer DHCP model to decrypt your bank card so no one can hack it"
If you lay down a cold hard sentence like that the customer will simply fall for it. Now I by all means was not a disshonest salesman. Simply because I did not make comission. I told the customer the truth and warned them about other computer companies that try to pull tricks and games.
The thing you want to do to protect your friends is simply build for them or tell them exactly what they need and send them with a list. A salesman wont mess with someone that knows what they are talking about.
The bottom line is most people do not care about service or quality. The only care about price. And that is why computers, and the stores that sell them, are gradually becoming cheaper and less reliable.
If you have a Micro Center in your area and don't already shop there, run to it right now. It's the last of a dying breed of computer stores, and the salespeople actually know what they're talking about.
My GF recently recieved a new wireless laptop from the company she works for. The day she recieved it, she drove down to the Comp Usa in the middle of her territory and bought a WAP. Not just any WAP. Not a good WAP...
The kid working in the wireless networking aisle showed her a "Sleek, shiny, Blue Led on top, wireless router firewall thingy with Rangemax," Netgear router.
When she brought this thing home, I Googled it, and found out that half the people that bought it loved it, and the other half hated it. (Sounds like quality control issues to me).
Now, 4 days later, we are experiencing the worst half of the reviews...dropped sessions, unable to connect, can't create a VPN, and dead spots in the house.
I would never have bought this thing based on the reviews by customers, but she did not even research it. The kid at CompUSA told her it was shiny and sleek,and high powered, and she bought it.
After the huge pain in the butt configuring this thing, I am going to take it back and use the boxed unit to beat the salesman half to death in order to pay for the three hours of my life it took to configure the bloody thing.
I can not wait to relate the hoops I will have to jumpt through in order to get a refund on this thing.
Stay tuned.
Today's show is brought to you by the number 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0: 25
Your mistake is not finding a 14-year-old geek to explain it to you and instead expecting something out of retail staff besides answers to "how much is it" and "do you have it in stock".
Yeah, and the last few times I've been to Best Buy have taught me not to even bother asking that. If you have an item that you find mis-shelved and don't know the price of, and you ask anyone, they just stare at you blankly and grunt in the general direction of the Customer Service counter. There, you can wait in a long line while two employees work the registers and five or six stand around in back and talk to each other.
Asking "do you have another one of these" was similarly successful.
Perhaps the situation is different over in the home theater section, where there always seem to be more staff (going after the bigger sales?) but my experiences have turned me off from big boxes for the forseeable future. I can have a similar experience by slamming my head repeatedly into a wall while ordering online.
Best Buy I think is inidicative of what consumers want; generally crappy Chinese stuff sold in large quantities at low margins and with crappy service. As technology has become commoditized, I suppose it's to be expected that someone has to become the Wal-Mart of silicon and plastic, they've gone after it with gusto.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Yes, I'd like a baked off with my steak. A little sour cream and chives on the side, too, if you don't mind.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Never buy a computer without first going to Microcenter. Best sales reps, let me open up the display computer and remove components when he was explaining to me how easy it was to upgrade memory...I actually got to do it myself in the store first!!! he knew his $hit, what a wonderful sales rep. no warranty push either.
rj
Listen, I've been at *** for three years, and I quickly figured out that it's the Extended Warranties that we're selling. So now I don't even bother with the hardware. I just hit them up for the Extended Service Plan as soon as they walk in the door.
I've sold 22 ballpoint pens that way; and that's on the low end.
The thing to do is to keep the words "Extended Service Plan" or "Extended Warrenty" foremost in your mind. Think about palm trees, mint juleps, and extended warranties, and then ask in the most helpful voice, "good day, sir/maam. May I show you the extended warranty of the week?"
When they say "No, I actually came in hear for a CD Player", then you reply. Well, we do have those right over here. Now, they aren't on sale right now, so you won't get as good a price as if you time your purchase. But, on the other hand, we have a $240 Extended Service Plan on sale for only $220, and it comes with a free CD player thrown in!"
Now, that not only confuses them, but it makes them realize how much they could get for free, if they'd simply give up like you did, and start thinking "Extended Warranty". At that point, their main desire is actually for an extended warranty, and the least that you can do is provide them with it.
When they are happily satisfied, and you're sure that they understand what a good deal they're getting, that's the time to go for the big catch.
"Oh, and would you like a warranty on your Extended Service Plan?"
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
I don't want a f%&#ing extended service plan.
When the guy walks out, he just leaves with a $450 PDA that's totally overpowered for what he needs. And my boss comes over, shakes my hand, and tells me, "Great job." The only thing that made me not feel physically ill in that situation was knowing I'd sold it to a rich guy, who could stand to part with the money. But it showed me just how easy it was to do, and how people all over the country were getting slimed out of their wallets every day, even the ones that need the money.
...I just try to be low-profile, but inevitably someone will ask me for help, I'm not sure why. I think it might because I'm around...and the tenuous grasp some Fry's employees have on English. I do like the place but when I go a) I'm coming to buy something I've already researched b) I'm looking to learn more first-hand about something. I often buy online from them since I don't live near one anymore but will stop in if I'm near one. The sales people are often indifferent and unless it's a price check or locating something I can't find I generally don't bother with them. Love the store though because of its selection/prices. Bottom line: Get your info from someone you know/trust, and if need be buy online.
When I was in college I was looking to go into the USAF and was taking ROTC.
/. (among other sites) on a frequent basis.
Well, we had some time to kill before class, and in the USAF they don't believe in just letting people stand around, so the Major decided that we should all play a mind game. There were only about 5 of us standing in the hall.
Anyway, he said I am going to say a word, and then you have to talk about that word as long as you can without repeating yourself.
The guy before me got "Arizona" and only lasted about a minute or so. I was next and got "trees".
Well fortunately I had been camping a lot, and enjoyed biology and life sciences coming up in school so I was relatively well informed on the subject. I spoke for about 7 minutes before the Major finally cut me off as I was going into cellular functions of plants vs animals, chloroplast, photosynthesis etc etc.
This was also the day that we had our semester briefings due to present to the class. After he cut me off he said I was exempt and that I had earned an automatic "A" for it simply by my handling of his 'game'. Of course being a showoff I begged him to allow me to do my presentation anyway (kissing ass is a good thing in the military).
Anyway, the point is that being very well rounded can be beneficial at the most random of circumstances. Thus it will eventually pay in the long run to learn as much as one can about everything. That's one reason I read
Libertas in infinitum
When I was living in Canberra, Australia; I was looking for a fulltime job, and was quite happy with the idea of working for a retail technology chain like Dick Smiths, Harvey Norman or some other outfit.
In October/November, around 2 months before I left Australia, I decided I would like to stay in Australia, and hopefully further my career (maybe enter the Australian public service once I got my Australian citizenship which was only a matter of a few months away).
I was interviewed for a job with Dick Smiths 'Power House'; my resume ranges from running my own computer business, to working in retail in terms of face to face transactions, and providing sales and technical support over the phone - so you could say that I did have a reasonable level of experience, and if chosen, I could hit the ground running rather than having to be trained up.
Did I get the job? nope. According to my sources there, they chose a youngster who didn't know the difference between a DVD and a CD; they chose the kid because of his 'limited horizons'; the problem with me? I was over qualified, I might possibly work further up the 'food chain' in terms of management, and I posed a direct threat to their jobs; so of course, they hire someone who is mediocre so that they can maintain their current jobs.
The problem is, there are people out there, like me, who could do the job, and do have the experience to sell things, but instead, they choose the cheaper option, the option of the pimply faced teenager with limited vision and scope as to where they want to go in the future.
Its funny though, every place I've worked at so far, management look at my resume and instantly ask, "why don't you enter IT? you seem well qualified for that area!" to which I explain the situation - Sorry, there are many others out there like me who are qualified in IT, can do the job, but choose not to enter the industry because the industry is full of wankers and tossers; right now, I'm quite happy with where I am, its not IT related, its in retail, I have a dozen people working under me, I set my own hours, I earn more than what I could have in the IT world, and when I perform, I get rewarded by management rather than chatised as with the case of the IT world.
My only argument is with your original post's generalization. I don't think anyone is arguing that the particular computer you bought didn't have a socketed CPU, and I certainly am not.
My apologies for jumping down your throat-- you didn't deserve my work-induced crankiness. I should have just politely pointed out that while your computer may not have been soldered together, such abominations have been around for years and persist to this day.
Maybe if they hired retired veterans of the IT trade, too tired to actuallly work in the area, but willing to dispense advice to customers.
What is a frustrating experience for young and ambitious people can be a very enjoyable one for the veterans.
I suppose I'm one of the rare low-wage, teenage salespeople that actually take the time to explain in depth what the customer is getting. I try to be as honest as possible and yet still make good money for the store. However, it is frustrating to be stereotyped as a 'dumb' salesperson. But It won't be long until I can (hopefully) find myself a good tech/math related internship! (not bad for my first post on slashdot? I'm trying to get back to my geek side.)
And that's just at the big brokerages. I hapen to have a real estate license (I don't buy/sell for anyone other than myself. I'm an investor.), and at my brokerage, the standard commission split for all agents (even newly-licensed ones) is 80/20 (20% goes to the broker), but if you want, you can just pay the broker $400/mo cash and keep 100% of your commissions. No agent worth his salt is giving 50% of his earnings to some broker anymore.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Also, she should pay 110% attention to what types of deals investors are doing in your market. She should collect as many business cards as she can, and on the backs of them, she should write down each investor's strategy. Then she should find properties for them. Remember, we investors have funds and have no mental problems. We do deal after deal and we don't care that the paint in the guest bathroom doesn't match the couch we inherited from aunt Mildred. She could do a lot of business if she learned about investors.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent