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U.S. Makes Plans for GPS Shutdown
sailforsingapore writes "Apparently, President Bush is drawing up plans to disable sections of the GPS network in the event of a terrorist attack. The rationale seems to be that it would prevent said terrorists from using the GPS system to direct some sort of attack. The plan would shut down access not only to the GPS satellite network, but projects like the EU's Galileo. Ironically, this comes alongside the President's plan to strengthen the GPS network against deliberate jamming."
Both actions make GPS harder to use as a weapon by our enemies.
Has there been a successful trial of using GPS for military purposes such as remote missile launch, or is this all just conjecture?
Mercy was given to me by Christ...I must give the same to others.
It can always be turned back on when the threat has passed, or selectively turned on at specific times to allow for a strategic response.
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I though galileo would operate independantly of the US gps system?
What is ironic about controlling when your technology can and cannot be used. It seems like a system for shutting it down when necessary would go hand in hand with a system for making sure other's can't shut it down arbitrarily.
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When Clinton allowed for more accurate GPS signals to be used by civilians, it sure seemed like they just flipped a switch one day and it was suddenly more accurate for everyone...
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Demand for compases and maps have gone up 80%.
The road between democracy and tyranny is paved with secrecy in the name of security.
I believe that GPS can be selectively shut off for civillian uses ... so ... the military can still use it as they have the encryption codes to access the GPS data which is more accurate...
They seemed to locate everything just fine on 9/11 w/o any GPS...
In the event of a terroist attack, cause large scale panic by shutting down a primary means of navigation.
What's next? Cutting off electricity so that the terrorists can't use it against people?
We need to evacuate! Quick, make sure nobody knows where they're going!
Instead of disabling portions of it, why not just give it a rolling encryption that the terrorists cannot decipher for a period of time greater than the duration of the attack? With our troops and weaponry increasingly dependent on the technology, the outcome could be much worse for us in that we could be left completely unable to respond to the attack. If we're going to think ahead, then let's really think about it!
"Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
So if you happen to be carrying redundant GPS receivers, and they happen to all fail simultaneously, take cover.
org.slashdot.post.SignatureNotFoundException: ewg
How many drivers will get lost during these shutdowns I wonder? I doubt it will happen anytime soon, but I think all car nav systems use GPS.
~S
Isn't GPS used to navigate ships and planes all over the world? Are they going to take the blame if they disable the GPS network, and an oil tanker runs aground, or a plane crashes? I think there's probably a lot of pilots out there would couldn't navigate if it weren't for their GPS.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Doesn't the military rely on GPS? Wouldn't this make it harder for us to respond to "attacks"?
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Mostly terrorist attacks occur quickly and without warning, and by the time the authorities gets a clue about what is going on, the attack most likely is over - as per 9/11. Shutting down the GPS network in such an event would only make it infinitely harder for rescue workers and police to coordinate relief efforts.
It is wise that Mr. Bush is doing this. With the success the US has shown with GPS guided weapons it is only a matter of time before terrorists begin to incorporate the technology. GPS/Galileo are potential weapons for US enemies. Planning to neutralize them in times of national emergency is the responsible thing to do.
an ill wind that blows no good
While it's probably a useful weapon to be able to shut down GPS, won't that hamper emergency response efforts? A little, anyway.
Maybe it's to disable autohoming bombs and small-plane attacks.
sigs, as if you care.
So after the attack, Bush is going to shut down the GPS system? How does that help anyone? Making it stronger against jamming is certainly a worthwhile pursuit, but shutting it down in response to a terrorist attack is just liable to have people wandering around lost, if not actively hindering rescue operations in fly-by-instrument situations.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
The russkie gps system?
Everyone who says the government is doing too much after 9/11 over there.
Everyone who says both please insert gun in mouth and pull trigger.
Thank you.
What's the news here?
Last I heard, GPS was designed and controlled by the US DoD, and the rest of the world only gets to use the system at their mercy. This is one reason to why e.g. my country's (Sweden's) defence forces don't "officially" use GPS, because it's a system that can be shut down on a whim of another military force.
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Wasn't the idea behind Galileo that us Europeans would have our own indipendent GPS system.
The idea being that if the US decides to do something silly and switch off sections of GPS, we wont be screwed?
Anyojne gotta link?
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
The ability to selectively disable the network has long been a feature though usually it's spoken of in terms of disabling it over a (non-USA) battlefield. The govt. would be stupid to do this in all but the most serious emergency and then only for the shortest possible time.
I wonder what the per-hour or per-day economic impact of disabling GPS over a heavily poplulated USA region?
A decent number of aircraft/airports that use GPS approaches would have to go back to more primitive instrument landings (more delays); many trucking/shipping companies rely on GPS for tracking goods. Then there are surveyers and agriculture and such that may use GPS augmented with some local beacon for high accuracy.
What other key economic uses of GPS are there?
No geocaching for you!
Off topic, perhaps, but am I the only one that starts seeing parallels betwen USA/Bush vs Star Wars/The Emperor? It might be just my imaginations and/or one of my mood-swings, but things are getting scary "over there". . . .
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WAAS was demilitarized some time ago. This allows for much greater accuracy.
Read more about it
http://www.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html
What about the growing number of airports that use GPS-only instrument approaches? Geezsh, why doesn't he just shut down the VOR and NDB systems while he's at it.
Besides, a Determined Terrorist could build their own ground-based DGPS-like system for specific targets without too much difficulty.
Huge number of vehicles all over the world use GPS for navigating. Shutting it off will quite probably cause steady stream of direct and indirect deaths. Nice.
GPS is free to use (once you've got a handset), and there really is no value in reproducing it except to protect ourselves when our interests do not align with those of Mr Bush or whoever Diebold elects in the future.
And we're supposed to believe the President has a plan to harden security for the entire system?
The man can barely tie his own shoes!
Sounds like more govt BS to stir up siege mentality. I can't think of a single terrorist attack ever, which could have been prevented by switching off GPS. In the meantime any over-exagerated threat to national security just serves to boost govt power and their importance in the eyes of the meek.
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Does the Whitehouse know that GPS is essential to timing many things such as the power grid?
I'm guessing this is some off the wall PR stunt to make people feel better that they can turn of GPS in an instant but the real facts are you can't shut down most of the sats unless they are in range of one of the few control stations and even then it might be a one way trip for some of the older ones.
Turning off GPS might just wipe out a great deal of mobile phones and other communications. It would be bad for aviation as well because one its turned off, there is no reason to ever turn it back on as far as pilots are concerned. And there is that small problem that the Europeans are building Galileo and the Russians still have GLONASS.
After seeing what Airbus is doing to Boeing and all the other military messes, I'm wondering who the politicians are working for because I know its not for the tax payers.
Don't any of the emergency services such as sea rescue (coastgaurd?), air ambulances (helicopters & choppers), etc. use GPS at all?
What about all the civilian air and sea traffic that uses it as well?
Seems a very dumb idea to me. Terrorists are unlikely to depend upon GPS data for attacks anyway. They know the location of the points they want to hit in advance wouldn't they?
And as for it shutting down the European GPS system as well (once it's built) that's just plain silly.
that a truck bomb needs GPS to find its target.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
How would they do that? The only way would be by jamming it, which is certainly possible but not as easy as it sounds because of the spread-spectrum stuff Galielo (and GPS I assume) is using.
Would probably cost alot of money to develop something that reliably jams Galileo, and I wonder if it wouldn't be easier (certainly cheaper) to just ask the EU Comission nicely. I mean, the EU is probably just as interrested in being able to shut down GPS if needed so a joint agreement of instant shutdown inside the US/EU borders in case of an emergency request would probably be better? I mean since the US would only ever want Galileo to be shutdown somewhere over US soil (and vice versa) it's not that big of a problem is it?
we are talking about preventing jamming of encrypted military GPS signals and shutting down unencrypted civillian GPS signals. These are two different things. Now, how is that ironic? How are people confused?
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Attempting to disable Galileo/GLONASS when the EU or Russia is not attacking might be considered a hostile act.
If there is another significant terrorist attack inside the U.S., don't you think it would be too late for shutting down the GPS network to help anything?
The only way this would be useful would be if the government knew an attack was imminent, and knew the attackers were relying on GPS, and was so sure of their knowledge that they were willing to disrupt air traffic, shipping, traveling salesmen, and everyone trying to find their way to a party. In short, I think the likelihood of this ever being used is low, and the likelihood of it actually helping protect against terrorism is near zero.
I think this capability makes more sense as a bargaining chip to threaten other countries with in trade negotiations. Their commerce depends on the GPS system, too.
If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers
Me neither.
Why did we spend MILLIONS for GPS location policies on Cell phones if we're going to shutdown GPS when its most needed? (post 9/11)
Why are we speaking of shutting down the tried and true radio becaons in lieu of GPS only to shut it down again, when it's most needed?
Transportation, Environmental Protection, Hobbyists and professionals alike rely upon and use GPS daily. Shutting them down or any attempt thereof is only points for the "terrorists"
How much time before Bush bans Rand McNally Maps & Globes?
are trained to navigate w/o GPS. GPS is nice and easy, but they do have procedures for navigating w/o it.
A lot of small private planes don't have it anyway.
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how concepts like this: Will Our Cars Become Our Chauffeurs? would fare with the gps system shutdown.
It's amazing to me how many things are becoming more reliant on the gps system. just searching slashdot for gps reveals so many articles about the subject. I mean, what would parents do (Using GPS to Track Teens ) if they shut down the system?
L1 is the signal civilian GPS signal used in your handheld GPS receiver or installed your car. This one Clinton made more accurate for everyone.
L2 is encrypted for use by US military and is extremely accurate. This system guides cruise missiles down smokestacks.
Turning off L1 would unsync timing signals to computer networks using GPS as Stratum 1 timing.
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Judging by their recent track record, it's not only easy to do, but it's generally the right spot for the blame.
Besides? What happens if the GPS receiver isn't able to get a fix on its' position (happens sometimes)? The plane is not going to drop out of the sky.
What would happen to emergency services if GPS is not available? Do any of them use it to help navigate to troubel spots?
What about computer networks? Many critical systems use GPS's time signal to make sure their clocks are accurate (e.g., through NTP).
Although I'm sure the GPS could help attackers in many ways, so could the cell phone network and the electrical grid. Are you going to shutdown or jam those as well? At some point GPS will become too important to just shut off.
Also, what are the political ramifications of jamming Galileo? Are there any treaties or international law regarding the jamming of signals "owned" (allocated?) by other countries?
Hopefully the designers of critical GPS systems will put in backup systems (inertial guidance?) for such emergences. The other concern is liability: is the US government liable for any quality of service of the GPS service? If the signal goes away, and a system crashes or does something bad, who is liability (if anyone)? This is opening up a can of worms that will be quite messy.
And I tell you what, why not bomb the roads to make travel harder? After all, in times of terror, only terrorists would want to drive, or ride a bicycle.
Stick Men
So a "terrorist" attacks the US, and we respond by stranding millions of drivers, hikers, travellers and emergency workers without their GPS to help them get to safety. SUDDENLY AND WITHOUT WARNING. Isn't this GPS shutdown Osama's dream come true? What else can this criminal asshole do to fan the flames of fear and destroy our country?
--
make install -not war
"He who would trade freedom for security deserves to lose both" (I'm paraphrasing from memory...and I have unfortunately forgotten who said it)
I think this is trading freedom for security, which USA has been doing all since 9/11. And nobody objects in any way, which I find scary. I mean, eg the USAPATRIOT ACT won't make your country any safer, it'll just give the government more power. As will this. They are all only small changes, but in the end you will have given up too much freedom, and it will become too easy for the government to abuse its power.
GPS is so widespread that disabling it, even for a terrorist attack, would cause more harm than good.
Besides, if the terrorists have already attacked, isn't it too late?
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
"Terrorists" aren't idiots:
-most of the time the target doesn't know it's going to be hit, and if it did, disabling the GPS for the area is the least the US gov could do.
-now the "terrorists" can choose to shut down the GPS for an area if it suits them for any reason, by making a decoy attack
This makes you think why in the hell is Bush doing this at all? He must be gaining something out of it, other than making the US population think he's doing something to prevent "terrorism".
I think the bush administration is well aware of what effect this will have on aviation and such said devices.. My question is, is this technology already in place? If so, the Bush administration has a lot to explain.
Terrorist hijacks a plane.. and the US shuts off GPS. Now the chances of that terrrorist ( who was trained to use the automated equipment) finding his initial target is pretty slim.
The consequences for everyone else? Navigate like a true pilot to your destination (if there is a way) or just fly in circles.
This is my best uneducated opinion / guess on this so please be kind.
The road between democracy and tyranny is paved with secrecy in the name of security.
... that a truck full of fertilizer and diesel fuel doesn't really need a GPS signal to find the nearest US embassy/bank/power plant?
One could just follow the road and, say, go by signs and a map.
C.M.Burns
Jammed? (takes a taste of the jam) Raspberry. There's only one man who would dare give me the raspberry. (pulls down mask) Lone Starr! - DARK HELMET
From the way this was written, it was impled that this is a bad thing..
.. Just like a lot of other things are/were shut down ...
We are not talking about shutting it down all the time.. just during an attack
No evil intent detected here..
Oh wait, its Bush that is suggesting this, seems people have to oppose the man at all costs.. even at the cost of common sense..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
In recent news, many soccer moms have gone missing. It seems after driving their GPS navigated SUV's they got lost and were unable to find their way home with the GPS systems went down. Several attempts were made via OnStar, however OnStar could not determine the location of the vechile without GPS. The inability to read basic road signs, meant the Moms could not give their location, they would just keep asking "Left or Right, LEFT OR RIGHT!!"
Soon, this will be a defunct method, because the EU is sending up its own version of GPS satellites. The EU is tired of the US screwing with it. Also, it should be more accurate for the average consumer.
"President Bush is drawing up plans"
How about the President draws up some plans on fixing the broken relations we have with other countries.
Or how about some plans on making some vague attempt at working with the world, instead of trying to control everyone else.
How many billions or is it trillions now are we going to pay before we will say were sorry.
(and yes I know that scary terrorists dont handle apologies very well, but the threat was not so active a few short years ago, what happened?)
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No driving speed restrictions on teenagers during GPS shutdown! YEEHAH!
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
The ability to turn off GPS has been built in from day one. This is pretty much standard for any of the nationally run navigation systems: the ability to turn it off in the event of threat or emergency.
The navigation system used by pilots before -- and still -- the advent of GPS is the VOR (VHS Omni-Range) system. This can also be shut off to avoid it being used by nefarious organizations.
And prior to that are non-directional radio beacons. Still in use, but clearly superseded by more advanced technologies.
For anyone who relies on such systems on a regular basis, it is just standard operating procedure to be prepared that it could be turned off at any time. You just simply keep switching down to a lesser system, even it it means you are reduced to your compass and a stop watch.
Whew! This water sure is cold!
I was using my GPS to get to my aunt's house and ended up at a linux user group meeting 18 miles away.
O this learning! What a thing it is - William Shakespeare
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and hence clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.-- H.L. Mencken
Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
Imagine some terrorist group is launching a dozen of home-made of cruise missile towards Washington. Bush has every reason to shut down the GPS. It makes sense to ask EU for a favour to shut down Galileo temporarily.
The problem is the Bush Administration is just so arrogant. The Pentagon has plan to do whatever, regardless of what they say they would or wouldn't do. I don't have a problem with this. But, that does not mean it is rational to threat the supposely allied EU countries for an attack of Galileo... Let's turn the table around. Imagine what would be Bush's reaction if the French Government say that kind of crap first....
I don't even need to mention other sovereignty countries... It is clear why Bush is hated by so many people around the world.
<rant delivery="sarcastic" offtopic="slightly">
Yeah, this is perfectly logical. Everyone knows that only terrorists would be using GPS during a terrorist attack, and not, say, emergency workers, the FBI, etc. God forbid that a single terrorist be allowed to use the GPS network, regardless of the fact that he's probably already (a) planned for that contingency (esp. since the Bush administration has helpfully announced the fact that the GPS system might be killed at will) or (b) already done all the legwork with GPS while picking his targets and coordinating the attack (so that he can execute the attack without it).
In fact, I also applaud the Bush administration for restricting our freedoms to eliminate the risk that any of the pesky terrorists might receive some. Freedom is a limited resource and must be hoarded and parceled out accordingly, and we can't afford to waste our freedoms (e.g. 1st amendment freedom of assembly, 5th and 6th amendment right to a fair trial) on even a single terrorist. I commend Bush for indefinitely detaining even suspected terrorists at our luxurious Guantanamo Bay facility (which is far nicer than they deserve, let me tell you), because we can't risk a terrorist experiencing our freedoms. God forbid, we might actually have to let one go due to lack of evidence. Terrorists eat babies! We can't let baby-eaters go free! WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?
</rant>
Range Voting: preference intensity matters
As others have pointed out switching GPS off after the event is at best pointless but more probably counter productive.
Either this is ill thought out or (fanfare on black helicopters) it is using a technique described by the Roman historian Polybius "Since the masses of the people are inconstant, full of unruly desires, passionate, and reckless of consequences, they must be filled with fears to keep them in order." Keeping people in a constant state of tension and fear means that they don't question the liberties they are losing, the economic burden their children are having imposed on them or the lack of competence of the government.
This is yet more paranioa progaganda from the people who brought you Total Information Awareness, The colour coded terrorism threat meter and other such rubbish programmes, whose design has nothing to do with protecting people from terrorists and everything to do with maintaining the current status quo, i.e. increased nationalism and xenophobia. The current administration loves having people in a patriotic stupour, and ridiculous proposals like this just add to it.
I mean, lets look at this objectively. One Terrorist attack is thought to be imminent. Your telling me that the pentagon will just, at a moments notice, shut down their entire primary global location guidance system, because one terrorist might be planning to attack some obscure US station or embassy. Give me a break. Think of the lawsuits alone.
Yet more FUD to keep the critics quiet. The terrorist are coming to get you!! BOOO!! Yeah right. Here a gem for you. There are no terrorists. Noone is coming to get you. Al Qaeda doesn't exist. I plead daily to the cosmos that one day most americans will somehow awake from their collective coma and just fire their asses. However with the number of TV channels on the increase, and work days nudging up to thirteen hours, I'm afraid this seems unlikely.
This is probobly also a snipe at the Galileo programme. Not for patriotic reasons mind you. Simply because GPS had a monopoly on the market and the pentagon could charge what it liked with vendor lock in as a plus. Now that there's competition, they're getting the white house to do a little FUD pushing for them.
May the Maths Be with you!
Terrorists tend to be very clever, sly and intelligent people. They work with limited resources, frequently in enemy territory against a much larger force.
Terrorists will not rely on GPS.
The military is increasing its' reliance on GPS.
therefore
Shutting down the GPS will have no negative effect on the terrorists, but will hamper the military (and probably civil emergency efforts too).
Finally, if the terrorists do mount an attack on us that somehow utilises GPS, it is unlikely we will know about it until after it has happened.
Why is this surprising? The GPS system was built by and put up by the military for their use. It's their system. They just decided to let civilians use it. If they decide they want it all back, that's their business.
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(1) Turn the ON-OFF selector switch to the OFF position.
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Political discussion for a new world
Terrorists are not some big organised group like the Bush administration would like you to believe.
The plans that terrorists make are not technologically advanced. They do not rely on things like GPS. They rely on things like knives, guns and home-made bombs.
Has the US been attacked since September 11th 2001? No.
Is this because of anti-terror measures? No.
Bush is scaremongering because the only thing that keeps him in power is the belief wrongly held by over half the population of the USA that there's some evil force out there that is coming to get you, and that he's the only person that can save you from it.
Like car accidents, most hardware problems are due to driver error.
Isn't our entire phone network timed off GPS signals? I mean I know all the timing shelves have backup clocks, but those will only stay in sync so long, then we start getting bit slips on a massive scale.
What about the required integration of E911 & AGPS?
Wouldn't this affect the usability of this?
Just in case you need to know. Plans usually include things such as:
When - When would it be shut down
Why - Why would it be shut down
Where - Which areas would be shut down
How - How do we shut it down, and how do we operate without it.
Get a free ipod.
BANG!
Oh, oops, sorry, that was Airforce One. Your former president is now about two square miles of widely-spaced crumbly particles. Sorry, couldn't identify the aircraft properly 'cos our GPS was tango uniform. Sorry 'bout that.
And I thought GPS for US soldiers was already out of order considering they're currently in Iraq, when Usama Bin Forgotten was last seen in Afghanistan.
As all the pedophiles and kidnappers suddenly realize that those cell phone/GPS/watch bracelet tracking gizmos on the kids don't work. (Or the ankle units they themselves might be wearing while on parole.)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
If an EU nation decided to temporarily scramble GPS because of an imminent, threatened or ongoing "terrorist" attack, would the US government find that acceptable?
I guess you were able to watch the BBC's programme "The Power Of Nightmares". This should be compulsory viewing for all Americans.
:)
Does anyone have it in a BitTorrent-able format?
And I am unwrapping my first gps unit. :-(
This seems like a real waste of resources. Attack the GPS system? That would require large resources from the attackers to pull that off. I don't for a minute believe that guys hidden in caves around the world, of living in dingy apartments have that capability. If they did have the technical skill to pull that off, they could be making big money in a western country anf living with blond women. A TERROR attack must be large, violent, and against people, or it has little impact. I waon't state them here, but there are much, MUCH eaiser targets that the GPS system. Rant off.
The intentional degradation of the civillian signal was called Selective Availability, or SA. Clinton ordered it turned off in the late 1990's. I imagine since it was an intentional "fudging" of the signal that it really only took the flipping of a switch to turn it off. Here is a page showing tracks from the day it was turned off.
I'll admit that it would be annoying as hell for those that have made their business and hobbies simpler by using GPS if it was turned off. They should do it once every 3 months as a drill. I really hate to mention it, but GPS is a military system. Until Congress takes GPS away from the military due to corporate and /. complants, the military could do anything they want to the system without notifying you. I'd bet the only ones that would really be annoyed are rescue personnel. I read a post that mentioned that the cell phone system and the power system will magically crash without GPS on. I really hope some one from each of those industries will explain the only uses of GPS in their field. I can guess several uses, but they are all in troubleshooting tower or lines.
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But as many insightful posters have pointed out, surely he doesn't know that other people use the GPS system, and that disabling portions of it would have far-reaching effects. Why, I bet it would come as a complete shock to him that CIVILIANS are using this same technology.
He IS just one man in a White House, after all. But that's why we have Slashdot, to better inform our public officials with our collective insight!
Mod up +5 Insightful!
I have a number of friends that have their Instrument rating and own planes that have certified GPS systems, but no ADF. And there are lots of airports like GTU that have GPS & a NDB, but no ILS.
There are very few VORs located central enough to a field to enable you to shoot an approach off of them...
--Rob
Whats the point of doing it after a terrorist strike? Surely the Americans would want to shut it down *before* an attack, but that would mean knowing exactly where and when the 'terrorists' were going to strike, that could never be possible could it? .....hmmm wait a minute.
The military increasingly uses GPS technology to move troops across large areas and direct bombs and missiles. Any government-ordered shutdown or jamming of the GPS satellites would be done in ways to limit disruptions to navigation and related systems outside the affected area, the White House said.
I could see this being useful if, say, another plane was hijacked and they were using the GPS to head for a high-importance target. Unlikely that it would affect you going to the football game in your Hummer, so no worries. :p
call me a troll, but since when does it pay off to be brainwashed?
//de ~ 9cimi
...is pull off some third rate attack anywhere in the US, and wait for the real terror to begin once they pull the plug on GPS as a result. I could write this up in one of those silly Slashdot business plans except the last line would not be "5. Profit!" but "5. Lose," because we all would. And I guess that's the meta-goal of terrorists everywhere: to panic a country so much that its government turns on its people.
It seems to me that the efforts of emergency responders could well be hampered by lack of information, particularly if the information network were shutdown. This includes GPS information. You can never know for certain who will be in a critical position to relay important information. If they don't have it, the system won't be able to respond effetively. (eg, "I just saw a gasoline tanker truck going by at 85 mph down this lonely highway - where am I? I dunno, my GPS isn't working."
A similar characterization could be made of the cell phone network: shutting it down could prevent the kind of remote activated explosives such as the ones used in 3/11 in Madrid, but, at the same time, people needing help or calling the authorities to tell them about a suspicious character fleeing the scene would also be hampered.
There needs to be more thoughtful critical analysis going into security measures and less heavy-handed measures based on fear and knee-jerk reactions.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Galileo, OTOH, is not owned by the US, and it strikes me that it's extremely unlikely that the US government will ever get root on the Galileo satellite network. Therefore, disabling Galileo for a particular area would require brute force approaches: physical destruction of the satellites, which would have knock-on political effects that I would hope even Bush would balk at, or else on-the-spot jammers.
Either way, preventing a rogue state like, say, Canada from access to Galileo would require significantly more committment than with GPS: you would actually need to manipulate the real world. It would also take a considerable amount of time.
This is a just a plan folks. It's like posting an article stating that the government has a plan to shoot down commercial airliners that have been hijacked and are heading for large population centers, and the responses here would be "What is the government going to randomly shoot down airplanes now? I hate the government. Don't they know that foreigners fly on those planes, that could be an act of war? Air travel is a major commercial enterprise, is anyone thinking about how this could criple the economy? Sometimes they transport organs for transplant on those planes, just think about the people who would die? I love those little jet trails in the sky, why does the government want to take them away from me? Has anyone thought about the children? The children!" Stop overreacting, RTFA, and realize IT IS JUST A PLAN. This is what government bureaucracies do... they create massive amounts of paper.
...shutdown of the network inside the United States would come under only the most remarkable circumstances
For those of you who didn't RTFA, here are some key points from it.
- President Bush has ordered plans
- Any shutdown of the network inside the United States. Use GLONASS if you like.
- Any government-ordered shutdown or jamming of the GPS satellites would be done in ways to limit disruptions to navigation and related systems outside the affected area, the White House said.
-
There have been some good question and points raised (like HOW will this work), but those are barely audible over the Bush-bashing trolls and the general knee-jerk hysteria.
Long live the paranoid.
It seems like the disruption caused by turning off GPS would be greater than the incident created by using it for a guided attack.
Starman97@Gmail.com (bring it on spammers)
It was also GPS that helped the terrorists navigate.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Because the US wants to be able to jam the European's GPS system at will while they "plan to strengthen [their own] GPS network against deliberate jamming."
were you red state people thinking?
I'm somewhat less than happily walking around with a GPS transmitter in my backpack because of new regulations that cell phones need to have a GPS transmitter in order to relay my location to emergency dispatchers should I use it to dial 911. Now they're telling me that in an event where that information might actually be critical to more people than just myself, e.g. my calling 911 in response to a terrorist attack, they won't be able to GET that location data because the system will have been shut down. How is this a good idea?
It's pretty easy to knock together 1, 10's, 100's, 1000's of GPS guided, lawn mower engine powered, airplanes. The OMC 6.5HP two-stroke is an easy conversion and cheap. Excluding labor, a SWARM of GPS guided planes could be assembled for under $2000 each in small quantities. For quantities in the thousands, it's a contract job in HK, Taiwan, or China. A few hundread people could launch thousands of these in less than an hour. All that's lacking is an adequately terrifying payload.
OTOH, imagine just a dozen of these launched all over the country. No one would know if there was a payload or not. Fore a couple of tens of thousands of dollars, the USA economy could be brought to a halt for days!
I work for a wireless telecommunications provider. Our cell sites rely on a highly accurate time source as a basis for their RF modulation. They get this clock source from GPS signals. They also use this information for E911 telemetry. The cell sites, as with most high-precision GPS devices, require 4 satellites to be "strongly tracked". If the US were to one day "shut off" sections of GPS coverage, here are the immediate issues I would have (being on-call to maintain the system)
The technology my company uses is an extension of GSM, and I can guarantee you that ANY RF technology that requires a high degree of accuracy (anything digital will) will require such accurate timing. Granted, some technologies are capable of taking this timing off of the T1 lines that they are using for communications back to the switch.
The US must know that disabling sections of GPS could cause adverse effects on their own wireless telecommunications network, why would they even consider this an option?
Karma: Raspberry Kiwi
This is how it works during war.. The army DOES have power over the civilians..
Nothing new there.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Nice try.
Wouldn't shutting down the GPS network be an effective terrorist attack.
There's something really not right about this, it sounds more like a cover story. Not saying there's anything more to it than what's in the article, but it feels suspicious. I could think of more good reasons to disable the cell phone system than GPS.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
My employees tell me I couldn't manage my way out of a paper bag... now I won't be able to use GPS to do that either.
You could manage to make yourself RTFA and realize that they DO NOT have to shut the entire system down for one localized incident, asshat. Nice karma whoring though.
The plan would shut down access not only to the GPS satellite network, but projects like the EU's Galileo.
How would mr. Bush have any control over people accessing EU's sattelites? The Galileo project is started to get independent from the 'plans' mr. Bush and friends have with GPS. If Bush can control access to that network, being independent is pretty useless IMHO.
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
Ehem. Thank you.
I would like to tell all you worry warts out there a little something about GPS... Civilians and Military use different GPS.
There is a smack on the flame baiters foreheads.
Additionally, it would behoove you to read the article a bit before making yourselves look like a bunch of asses.
DISCLAIMER:
I don't believe what I write, and neither should you.
It's a matter of course in the U.S. with the FAA -- you can't rely solely upon GPS. You have to have the training and technical capability to operate without. And since everyone else worldwide relies upon what the FAA and JAA (EU) set, that pretty much makes it true everywhere else.
If you don't believe that most EU countries have plans to do the same thing to the USA's GPS system if necessary your crazy. Every modern military has contingency plans for just about every scenario under the sun, no matter how unlikely that scenario might be. That includes, on the EU member side, contingency plans for war with the USA. What do you think is one of the first parts of that war plan? Taking out the GPS.
The bottom line is that the US government would be irresponsible if it did not have contingency plans on the shelf for taking out Galileo just as EU member states would be crazy to not have contingency plans on the shelf to take out GPS. It's not pretty, but it's reality because the number one job of any government is to protect it's own citizens. In military terms, that means have plan ready for every scenario imaginable, no matter how terrible.
IMHO, it's better to be up front with your allies about what you are planning than to say one thing while actually doing another. Honesty, when possible (which isn't always the case when it comes to national security), is always the best policy, especially with your allies.
Total idiot, planes use GPS ALL THE TIME.
No kidding. Shutting it down would just make a localized potential terrorist act a regional one.
The system exists for the benefit of the Department of Defense, and is provided for everyone else on an as-is basis, no warranty implied. You can't sue the DoD if you rely upon GPS and somtehing goes wrong as a result.
We have to endure 4 more years of this?! I have every reason to believe 9/11 wouldn't have happened if Bush weren't in office. The world is the theatre for the personal battles of a small but powerful few.
Karma whores...
I can understand shutting it down or turning back on the "built in inaccuracy" or whatever if they SUSPECT a terrorist attack is about to happen and they know they are using GPS. But the way this is worded, that in the event OF a terrorist attack GPS would be shut down, seems to me that we would be WITHOUT GPS in the immediate aftermath of a terrorist attack!
This is incredibly shortsighted, let me give you a good example: In the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Charley, cellphones, telephones and existing radio systems were down in the areas hardest hit, but amateur radio operators swarmed the area and deployed new antennas and crank up towers and tons of radios for the first responders. In addition to that they deployed this amazing technology called APRS for the salvation army and others that allowed the participating groups to track in realtime the location of all of their vehicles.
Now, if your not familiar with APRS, it starts with a low powered radio, a GPS unit, and a device that hooks up to the GPS and the radio that transmits the GPS coordinates in digital format on the radio. Then, ideally, a central radio tower can hear these signals and develop a picture of where all the signals are based off of their GPS coordinates. Whats even more insane is that APRS has grown so much that satellites and even the international space station repeat and broadcast APRS signals!
So if GPS were shut down first responders would lose a valuable emergency coordination resource. Not to mention the fact that some police/fire already have similar systems in place, though generally such systems are wiped out in disasters, hence the amateur radio operators who are at the ready to redeploy communications gear.
Read more:
More on APRS
APRS on the ISS
Amateur Radio Emergency Communication
...unfortunately no one can be told what The Mat^H^H^HGoatse is...they must experience it for themselves...
I work in the Testing & Evaluation of WAAS. WAAS and Selective Availability are not the same (or opposites). WAAS was never "militarized".
When Clinton ordered for the switch to be flipped (so to speak), what was done was the disabling of Selective Availability, which was a purposeful degradation of the civilian GPS signal (L1). The military had (and still has) a second (encrypted) signal that a military receiver must have a key to properly use (L2). Using that signal enhances their accuracy, whether or not Selective Availability is active.
WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) is something else. WAAS uses Geostationary Satellites to enhance (augment) GPS accuracy & precision in the USA. Not all GPS receivers use WAAS. Accuracy of a WAAS receiver is increased in either case (that is, with or without Selective Availability) relative to a non-WAAS receiver, but there is a noticeable difference from SA.
Not all GPS receivers use WAAS, but Selective Availability has been disabled, which affects all GPS receivers.
This seems stupid to me even when just looking at the military's own needs, let alone the needs of the police, aviation, etc.
I remember watching a special on the Discovery Channel (or maybe it was History? doesn't matter) that did an interview with an Air Force guy whose job it was to scout around on the ground, call in airstrikes on a location, and paint the target with a laser so that the planes could take it out with laser guided munitions.
He would take a GPS reading of his current location, then use a laser range finder, an electronic compass, and a bit of math to come up with a lat/long reading for the target, which was usually several kilometres away. This would get the planes in the right spot and once they were there the laser guidance would do the rest.
Problem was, the US issue GPS they gave him was HUGE. We are talking the size of a ham radio here, weighing around five pounds or perhaps more. Nobody in that job uses the issued GPS. Instead they order a civilian GPS and use that instead because they are tiny and weigh as much as a ham sandwich and not as much a ham radio.
I'm sure there are plenty of other military people out there doing the same thing. If they turn off civilian GPS altogether they might just be screwing their own troops.
Mechanik
I can't imagine its too difficult to find the two tallest buildings in NYC without GPS.
This is not the sig you are looking for...
The US Terrorist Threat Level suddenly changed today from orange, to bright pink, to multicolored neon, then back to orange.
When asked about this alarming turn of events, Rumsfield stuck out his tongue, pointed at the cameras and loudly shouted "Made you look!"
(US terrorist threat warnings are about as frequent as SCO press releases.)
The wording here cracks me up. The president could't "draw up plans" for eating breakfast. Attributing this to Bush is ridiculous. The DoD or the NSC draws up plans. The President gives a thumbs up or thumbs down depending on his handlers tell... er... I mean advisors... advise him to do.
A passion for apathy.
that's what powerful countries do, what is the alternative?
Public safety agencies rely increasingly upon GPS-based vehicle tracking -- in fact, federal authorities tended to encourage this in the weeks after 9/11/2001 with their hightened concerns about the possibilites that terrorists could steal emergency vehicles and use them as weapons. Moreover, Phase II Wireless 9-1-1 systems have been developed around the principle that metdata from GPS-enabled mobile handsets would help guide rescuers to those who need help. It seems to me that if the terrorists were to succeed in getting us to take down our GPS system, it could actually *produce* chaos and casualties over and above those that might be inflicted directly by an attack.
...disavow all knowledge...
So they "shut down" the system case of attack, meanwhile the very police/fire/ambulance/rescue/etc.. forces that use GPS systems everyday (regular civilian models) to do there jobs will be unable to do there jobs as effectively and this will result in delayed response or no response to emergencies. Are they fucking stupid?
An optimist believes we live in the best world possible; a pessimist fears this is true.
They are making plans to shut off GPS... ...to stop the terrists... ...AFTER they have attacked.
Yeah, that'll do plenty of good.
Darn Flip-Floppers!
Airplanes use GPS.
Geez, dumbass, a three year old could understand that.
In reality, this is (or at least should be) a kind of a last-resort effort for when it would be of more help than hindrance to citizens and emergency service personell. For example, say they find out that a GPS-guided boat with a nuclear bomb is cruising into NY. Makes sense to shut off the GPS now, doesn't it.
Even so, it would be better if they could misdirect individual GPS receivers at will, by coordinating the satellites to send misleading information to just one receiver. This would be very technologically difficult, if not impossible, given the way GPS works. Still, imagine if they could steer that boat out into the middle of the ocean, where they could intercept it and find clues as to who made it.
-3Suns
~~~~
The Revolution will be Slashdotted
if the US Govt. keeps screwing with infrastructure making life uncomfortable for its citizens, the govt. wont have to worry about terrorists, our own people will revolt and possibly cause revolution...
I would be creating my plan to not rely on GPS, or, use the military's GPS capabilities instead
For a "terrorist" attack, you dont realy need to have percision guidance.
IIRC, the Nazi V1 and V2 rockets had piss poor navigational abilities. On a 500 mile flight path, they had accuaracy of about 5miles. Which is compleatly unacceptable if you are trying to take out a tank, or even a very large building. But, since London is more then 5mi accross, they hit something. They were very scary. Londoners were scared, possibly even to the point of being terrified.
While I doubt that you could go down to your local university library and get plans for a V1, I think it is within the reach of just about anyone to build a rocket of V1 capabilities in 2004.
Let's say you have a gas leak in your business, and you don't know where it's coming from.
What do you do? You call the gas company and fire department, and they come and SHUT OFF THE GAS SUPPLY.
That way they can reduce the risk of more damage occurring.
Even if your business has a financial dependence on having the gas working (i.e. a restaurant), it has a MUCH GREATER financial dependence on the building not blowing up.
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
What do you mean our enemies? I dont have any enemies. Who is it exactly that is your enemy anyway? Are they your enemy because Rumsfield told you so?
The whole US/THEM mentality is such a sad dementia. When will people learn? Its just people trying to get by.
So I wholeheartedly agree. Everybody who has any desire to question the wisdom of this latest measure should sit down and shut up. You are very smart and very cool in your performance of 'impatient level-headedness' and we should all listen to your thought-provoking arguments about air planes.
-FL
Now shipping and navigation are crippled. The terrorists only dream they could hit the US infrastructure like this.
God spoke to me.
--- Ban humanity.
Arn't these things geostationary... just avoid putting galileo satelites in range of US soil.
Use an algorithm of some sort to compensate for any errors.
The US government makes a military product (GPS) which other entities (commercial companies) use to sell consumer devices. The governement says they'll shut down this service to the consumer devices whenever they choose. The Government is BAD.
/. must be pro-corporate power.
;-)
Apple creates a consumer device which reads a certain type of file. Another company (Real) sells a product which uses the same method to sell a product. Apple threatens to shut down this ability whenever it chooses. Apple is GOOD.
The governement is doing it for security reasons, Applis is doing it for corporate profit. Ergo,
I'm glad that's settled
*hmmm, better post this one AC*
The ability to selectively degrade ( and I assume ) to turn off GPS in extremsis was built in from day one.
This isn't anything new....
Because without GPS how is the terrorist going to find New York city and the really big buildings ... oh wait, I bet they could, like, use a map and ask directions, yeah that would do ... of course once the terrorists have to produce ID cards (with the word TERRORIST across it in big letters) then people will stop pointing at the big buildings and going "over there" (sarcasm:off)
... ... the problem with working out a decent risk assessment is that you have to have
... money, and potentially civil liberties, bomb shelters, freedom ... or some percentage of those ... or possibly changing US foreign policy to reduce the anti-American feeling in the rest of the world so that step 2 is reduced.
You are absolutely correct. I can't say for certain, but I'd be surprised if GPS played a big part in 9/11
1) Identify a risk
2) probability of that event occurring
3) cost/damage if that event occurs
4) cost/damage to prevent that event (or a set of possible solutions, each costed and each with a percentage probability of preventing the event)
And then someone has to make a decision about how much to spend and how much risk that removes.
1) So a suitcase nuke would indeed be a risk.
2) What is the probability of someone getting hold of such a device and using it against the US? Dunno.
3) Cost if it goes off, massive
4) Cost to prevent it
It's a dangerous world. Being able to switch off GPS and Galileo (or to degrade or encrypt their output so that only approved military and civilian forces can access the accurate signals) is a vital tool in the armoury, but it won't stop suitcase nukes or 9/11 style attacks. It won't stop biological attacks either. But it might stop the equivalent of a cruise missle or armed UAV from accurately targetting, say, the White House.
V1 was not a rocket.
I am sick of people calling the V1 a rocket
It had wings and breathed air into it's pulsejet engine.
It was more like a cruise missile.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
Fool!
A few planes use GPS as a backup to VOR.
How the hell do you think planes were flown to their destinations before GPS? The gyrocompass is still the primary means of aircraft navigation.
WAAS uses Geostationary Satellites to enhance (augment) GPS accuracy & precision in the USA.
WAAS uses geostationary satellites to relay data, but the important part is the network of 25 ground reference sites. This sites are precisely surveyed, and used to calculate correction data for the GPS signals. This correction data is periodically uplinked to the geostationary satellites, which relay the corrections to WAAS-equipped GPS receivers. The receivers use the correction data for their location to refine the GPS calculation.
just beause there's a Big Red Switch at your disposal does NOT mean you have the RIGHT to pull it.
"oooh, what's THIS pretty big red button do?"
(a bush cabinet member was asked about our future on this planet. his response was of the form "well, we don't know how many more generations we will have on this planet; I mean, before OUR LORD returns, and ends all life on this planet."
kind of makes shutting down GPS seem like a warm-up event of some kind...
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
What's next? Cutting off electricity so that the terrorists can't use it against people?
Cut off the water supply instead so the terrorists are forced to come out of hiding. It worked in Falluja!
If the shit REALLY hits the fan, I might need my GPS to get me out of a jam.
Don't Tread on Me
Fuck, I would hate to be on a plane in bad weather the next time a terrorist attack happens. GPS approach, in low-vis situtations (less than 1000 ft), is considered to be the safest approach available.
Wire explosives to all street signs and landmarks. Next threat comes around and we kill GPS, there won't be much to fall back on!
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
You are absolutely correct. Note that I was just trying to keep it simple, and speak from the user perspective (i.e. receiver sees GEOs, not ground stations), to point out the incorrect assertion in the parent post.
Go Chimpy McFlightsuit!!!
Good Job.
Moron.
You people... *sigh*
Not trying to correct you. On my first reading of your post, I thought you were saying the satellites were doing the GPS corrections. An incorrect inferrence on my part, but I thought I'd try to clarify.
So tell me something I've been wondering about... does the quality of your WAAS position improve if you're close to a reference site, or in a good geometry (HDOP-wise) relative to a set of sites?
One nation shutting down the sattelites of another nation or nations - wow, Bush is moving closer to WW3 every day.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I can't imagine its too difficult to find the two tallest buildings in NYC without GPS.
Perhaps not but it's not that simple. First you have to find your way TO New York City. After that you need to know your distance from the towers to make a proper approach. It's not like you see the building and just ram it, you have to deal with turning and elevation. Try taking a 737/747 from 30,000 to about 800 feet in a short time and still maintain enough control to hit a target that's only as wide as your wing span. This isn't flight simulator 98. This is a one shot deal and you need to get it right the first time. There is a reason a navigator makes up 1/3 of a piloting crew.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
It's not unheard of for utilities to be cut if terrorists have taken over a building.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Frankly, I'm surprised this is "new."
I'd've expected stratigic, on-demand, regional weakening or disabling to have been built into this system from Day One.
Frankly, I'm surprised they don't already "permanently" lower the precision over areas that are "high probability" targets for GPS-guided missiles, such as certain ports and the entire Washington, D.C. area. For a missile, being 100 meters off course can mean missing the target completely.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
If the US openly state that they have controls to shut down both GPS and Galileo, won't that make the services less interesting for time-critical services (like ambulances and firemen) to use?
I mean, won't designers of systems for that type of services go: "But what if the GPS or Galileo is shut down? Then we need an alternative! Might as well not bother with GPS or Galileo and spend our money/time designing the alternative..."
This would be a waste of a perfectly good system, in my opinion, but an understandable design decision for any designer who needs to be sure her design will work.
There has never been doubt in my mind that for simple military reasons the US have had measures to shutdown the service. But the fact that they're openly advertising it seems to indicate to me that they will not hesitate to actually use those measures whenever they think it might help in the way of "preventing terrorists from using it". Nevermind the arguments by others in this thread for why that's fairly useless to begin with.
This is the equivalent of the FAA shutting down airflights in the United States after 9/11.
Is there really a story here? They're just planning ahead.
Why would terrorists use ICBMs to deliver a payload? It's much easier to smuggle a bomb into a location and simply place it.
If you were going to use a rocket to dispense chemical or biological munitions, you'd probably use a dumb fire rocket, not a GPS guided robotic long range missile.
It's occam's razor folks, the more complex your attack, the more points of failure come up. The highest tech attack ever has been hijacking planes and flying them into buildings to cause more damage. That's not exactly a sophisticated strategy.
While it's probably a good idea to have a way to shut down parts of the GPS system if it's needed in an emergency, I doubt that a terrorist attack that relies on GPS navigation will take longer than it takes to shut down part of the system. They want quick and deadly, not long and easily dealt with.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Shutting down GPS when so many pleasure boaters who have very little actual navigational training use GPS-based chartplotters would be a great way to overwhelm the Coast Guard who would get flooded with distress calls from said boaters lost on the open sea unable to navigate.
bun-fhuinneog agam!
There is, of course, a perfect alternative to GPS. That is the Ordnance Survey map and the Silva Compass, beloved of every scout and guide. Each on its own is a powerful weapon in the War On Getting Lost; but when you use them together {and especially if you add a Maglite torch} you can find your way from anywhere to anywhere. In a televised experiment, a driver equipped with map and compass managed to complete a treasure hunt-style course quicker than a driver with a GPS.
.....
Of course, just to make things complicated, the "north" on the maps is not actually the same as either True North {where the North Pole is} or Magnetic North {where a compass needle points. Grid North was actually fixed at magnetic north many years ago}. You soon learn to correct for magnetic declination in your head and you'll generally be fine anyway as long as you take bearings often enough.
Mind, though, the way things are going, in ten years' time, kids probably won't know how to use a map and compass
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Given the severe economic and safety problems shutting down the GPS system would cause, telling terrorists that you will do it, gives them another weapon. With little risk, they could make threats to cause such a shut down. Repeatedly.
Announcing this just made us all less safe.
Thank You Kindly.
IIRC, CDMA cellphones use GPS signal for time synchronization. If GPS network is shut down, will Verizon & Sprint phones go down too?
Exactly what 'terrst' action is likely to 1: require GPS to succeed, and 2: be detected before it reaches its target in time for the GPS to be deactivated?
Suicide bomber: "Shit, the GPS has shut down! There's no way we'll be able to find the target for our truck full of explosives now!"
As the US (and other nations) get more high-tech in the 'War on Terror', so the terrorists will become lower-tech as they pursue a tactic of asymmetric warfare. Which weapon in the Pentagon's arsenal could have stopped a bunch of guys armed with boxcutters?
The US is becoming so technology-dependent that it seems to be losing grasp of the fact that you don't need billions of dollars of hardware to kill people in large numbers. A gallon of pesticide in the right water tank could do the job just as well. No GPS required.
You must think in Russian.
... that anyone that shuts down the GPS is a "trrrrst", of course everyone but George Double-ya. Why do i feel that the president is sending our country deeper into more shit and anybody who can is not telling him to shut up and play his gameboy during the important confrences.
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. - Catcher in the Rye
Did anyone else come tho this conclusion, or is it just me?
Oh, BTW, I guess you know who I voted for?I have a bumber sticker in my cubicle that says
"Don't you mean a military funded system that we CITIZENS have been given access to because we paid for it? "
Yeah, and by your analogy, because we paid for those F-15s, we should be able to take them out for a spin occasionaly?
GPS is, first and foremost, a MILITARY navigation system. We ARE lucky that the government had enough foresight to let the rest of us use it, just as they did the Internet. They understand the benefits of doing so. But in certain cases of danger to national security, they have the right (and indeed, the duty) to prevent the GPS system from being used by those that would attack us.
That said, I'm standing by for the inevitable flood of posts about Bush's fascist policies taking away our rights.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
I'm not trying to say I support all decisions made by the President, but I find the way that everyone considers all of his decisions/actions as such horrible things just disgusting. I didn't care much for Clinton, but I didn't get on a soapbox proclaiming the end of all that is good in the world just because he came out with new policy and what-not.
I agree whole-heartedly that we should question everything, but we must remember when doing so to keep our minds open to all possibilities, including that something may even be good.
Paul
People rely on GPS. Yes, I could navigate by map and compass if I needed to (and I do carry them and know how to use them), but it would take longer, and have a higher chance of disaster. It's hard to follow a compass bearing true in the forest. Trees get in your way and you need to make detours. Too big of a detour, and your bearing is no longer the right direction. Ironically, this effect gets more pronounced the closer you actually are to your target.
Just last weekend I relied on GPS to locate a trail. The maps of the particular area are not very accurate, and if I had had to rely solely on a map and compass, I don't think I would have ever found the trail.
I think it is ridiculous that a system like GPS which people depend on could be shut down at any moment. Even worse, what if they decide to just reposition the satellites in order to give everybody false readings? Not having a GPS is bad, but having it tell you you're walking toward a road when you are, in fact, walking toward a cliff is even worse.
This is really disturbing.
If empire were an American desire Europe would have went through being territories all the way to US states by now.
State-based imperialism has been shown ineffective. It's unwieldy, it doesn't really offer any advantages, and it's risky; when you attempt to retain dominance in an area through military means, sometimes people fight back through military means, and it's not always possible to paint the people fighting back against an invading/occupying force as the aggressors. Plus, you can only maintain state-based imperialism if you continuously control the state that runs the empire, and in a democracy like America this runs the risk of temporary local power transfers leading to your empire being disassembled.
The important thing now is economy-based imperialism. There's no need to rule the world when you can just own it. The wave that's been building since 1950, and the wave of the future, is for empire to be economic in nature, for military force to be used only when necessary to support that economic empire, and for the states-- which are increasingly irrelevant anyway-- to be ignored except when they stand in the way of that empire's interests.
Of course, occasionally America may resort to traditional, invade-and-occupy methods of imperialism to maintain its economic empire and ensure its spheres of interest. But this is usually not necessary, and only under certain circumstances is it the appropriate tool to use. Who on earth would try to invade or occupy Europe, anyway? Twice now in the last 250 years Europe has faced a rogue superpower trying to conquer the continent through military means, and both times it repelled and squashed that superpower against staggering odds. Only a very poor businessman would accept those odds even if there were a good reason.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
This administration is successfully using scare tactics and blatently ignoring civil liberties, all in the name of terrorism. Stupid Americans, they will go along with anything. No one today has the gumpsion to revolt or stand up to the govt. Those days are all in the past.
It's like vaccinations. Sure, there are side-effects but a risk-benefit analysis shows that some action is favorable than doing nothing.
However, shutting down GPS isn't quite like vaccinations in that there will be some airplane and boat pilots left dazzled at their GPS going tits-up while they are in the air or miles from civilization. Hopefully they are all up to date on their other navigation methods, especially if it is foggy or cloudy.
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
The Govt. BORROWED money to build the GPS.
Hmmm, interesting scenario.
The US attac^H^H^H^H^H performs preventive retaliation on some 3rd world country again, because "they have weapons of mass destruction". Only this time China feels pissed off, cuz its in their "sphere of influence" and since the brave heroes at the Pentagon don't know the word "Diplomacy", China would send troops into the poor 3rd world country too, "to protect its interests".
In turn the USA scrambles their GPS and demands Galileo to be shut down there, so the evil Chinese can't use it against the US troops.
Turns out Europa had enough of the US's "old world" and muscle flexing, and says "No, only if the UN says so" - which of course is deadlocked.
So the great USA shoots down European satellites, which many European countries see as an great provacation and insult...
World War 3, here we come...
+++ MELON MELON MELON +++ Out of Cheese Error +++ redo from start +++
Bush should shut the GPS off and we'll have planes crashing into the ground, as their GPS based instrument landing system croaks while they're making final approach. That way, he can blame THOSE deaths on terrorists too! I LIKE it! What a MORON Bush is.....!
What happens if this piece of *technology* gets hijacked? Will there be something to disable it?
Especially in a forest. Learn how to pace. Use prominent markers to walk to that aren't too far away and learn to orienteer, not just follow the compass. Learn to read those contour lines and translate them into meaningful features and you'll be ok. GPS should never be essential. If you would be hopelessly lost without it then you don't know how to property navigate.
I live in Vancouver, so you're terrain isn't exactly foriegn to me, but if you want hard, try navigating in the prarries, or even worse a featureless desert.
Difficult, but it has been done.
Likely, such an extreme action would only be taken if we went to "Red" (never has happened, the days of and right after September 11 would've been Red if the system was in place then).
At that level, many people would be getting sent home from their jobs, many others would be called into work, public transport would go into emergency operations, etc.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
Tonight at 11, Bush; on the heal of passing legislation that is threatening to turnoff GPS, he plans to also disable dead reckoning by.... Stopping time, anyone with a working watch will be considered an enemy combatant..... More at 11.....
Julius Caesar - Act I, Scene i: "What mean'st thou by that? Mend me, thou saucy fellow!"
That'll be Achille Lauro.
-- "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" -- Juvenal
they've always had that option - they can add noise just like before the shut - add enough noise to let people know the old resolution or maybe worse - disable dgps and let mil and law enforcement use it at fine resolution... a shut down would be - um - bad.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
It WAS a cruise missile! (not more like)
The V2, however, is often confused with the V1.
It is a ballistic missile.
Surely they have a good enough clock in them that they can still operate for at least a few days without a sync?
Now I will say that as a defense against a known terrorist plot, shutting down a part of the cell network is certainly an option. Terrorists have been using cell phones & pagers as detonators for some time now.
I don't read AC A human right
The government constantly tests contingency plans at random times. I can just see them shutting down a random area - say northern Michigan - and a bunch of people get hopelessly lost in a blizzard, or some other activity in which a map isn't much help. Guess it's time for a rebound in the popularity of orienteering!
Everyone has an agenda. Except me. --Michael Crichton
Perhaps, but by the time the GPS would've been shut down, it would've been too late. Once the U.S. started reacting to the attacks by shutting everything down that day, it was all over.
If the US is in a war against Islamic fundamenmtalism (I'd say Sunni Salafism) then what the fuck was the US doing invading the strictly secular psuedo-socialist Arab nationalist Iraq & creating a power vacume by deposing the Baathists that Wahhabi nutjobs are taking advantage of?
Fact is the US war against Iraq was a PR, recruitment & strategic godsend to Al Qaeda & co.
TFA says, "The president also instructed the Defense Department to develop plans to disable, in certain areas, an enemy's access to the U.S. navigational satellites **AND** to similar systems operated by others."
I disagree with those who say that disrupting Galileo would require physical attack on the satellites. TFA apparently alludes to some kind of jamming.
I agree with those who say that this might be construed to be an act of war -- EVEN IF it disrupts Galileo service only in a limited area: if the area isn't USA territory, then it's a violation of another nation's sovereignty.
Didn't the USA have a policy during the M.A.D. era, of not threatening Soviet surveillance capabilities, specifically because it would be a destabilizing act?
Would it not be much much more valuable for the US anti terror forces to have this sort of capability if not every single adversary already knows not to trust GPS?
Sounds like a lot of political Bush Blah Blah to me.
How come I don't here you demanding that US soldiers should be sacrificed invading & occupying the dozen or more countries in Africa with regimes as brutal as Baathist Iraq's circa 2000, or communist China for that matter?
So you "jam" your computer everyday by turning it "off"? OOOh, I see now... I think I'll go jam my microwave! Whoo Hoo! Time to go jam the TV with my remote control and an off switch.
They're two totally different subjects tenuously strung together by the use of the GPS system. There is no 'irony' here.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
If it wasn't for France, you'd be speaking with a British accent right now.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
See this site for information on "Tactical Markers" present on the road signs in the US. The idea is that they could shut off all navigation equipment and still traverse the country easily. Whatever they =..
Cool! Amazing Toys.
The best navigation aid that very few folk actually know about is this:
If you are looking for a point target (ie, an intersection etc), do not try to take a bearing to it, but purposely off shoot either left or right. (on the map)
Then, once you get the right distance, you'll know from your offshoot which way to correct. (ie, if your offshoot was to the left, you know the target is too the right).
This is especially helpful if you're worried about wandering off of the bearing...
I'm a private pilot who enjoys the convenience of GPS navigation. Not too long ago, the FAA announced that it would begin retiring old ground based navigation systems (VORs) and encourage General Aviation to migrate to GPS.
It's good to hear that in the future, our only navigation choices may be dead reconning and GPS. Should make things when POTUS decides to shut the system down because he/she is nervous about an attack.
I've always wanted to lose my GPS and fly into a mountain in the dead of night. No wait, that would suck.
No kidding. It's not like rain on your wedding day, or anything.
...into New York (although it may have been another river they followed)
This would be very typical of the bush strategy. If someone can use it against us lets not let them use it. When in reality it would be a case of one person or group stuffing it for everyone.
This makes it even clearer that the EU needs to build a system that competes with and complements the GPS system thats currently in place. Regardless there is so much reliance on GPS in todays world that it would cause enconomic loss to so many millions of people based on shipping channels etc that now use GPS instead of many of the traditional methods of navigation.
shouldn't there be another "lint list;" in there before the greps?
Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
www.fogbound.net
The military increasingly uses GPS technology to move troops across large areas and direct bombs and missiles. Any government-ordered shutdown or jamming of the GPS satellites would be done in ways to limit disruptions to navigation and related systems outside the affected area, the White House said...Bush also said the government will make the network signals more resistant to deliberate or inadvertent jamming.
Everyone take note of these two statements. What does this boil down to? Bush is going to make *there* system resistant to the jamming they are going to deploy against the planned European system.
I thought the USA regarded the EU as an ally, why / who else sees this as quite bold aggression? Meaning, we are planning to disable your system and make *ours* resistant to the same tactic.
Looks like someone in the Whitehouse wants to pick a fight with *EVERYONE* in the world. What is the EU administration going to think of this? Russia/India/China/Brazil/SA?
This is not as simple as it looks. Remember, before EU decided to launch Galileo they offered to co-own/co-manage GPS for 'everyone's common benefit -- knowing as washinton and we did -- that GPS would be turned off/on for tactical reasons against enemies of the USA. The USA refused to my surprise (another issue, why not a world wide and common anti-icbm shield to shoot down rogue ICBMs no matter the destination).
Pilots like myself are beginning to rely heavily on GPS and if somebody cuts the power all of a sudden without anybody being forewarned, a lot of people would suddenly find themselves in the clouds with their navigation blanked out. Granted GPS is not officially "sanctioned" as you cannot use it for the sole means of navigation, yet, but most people are lazy and don't tune in backup navigational aids en route. I guess the worse thing that would happen is that they would be either calling frantically on the airways to Air Traffic Control or would just have to shoot the approach again. P.S. Shooting the approach basically just means having to align yourself with the proper navigational equipment to come in for landing.
.... speaking as an active sailor and boat owner... it sounds like you're a bit worse off than we are, but the CG and local LEOs really enjoy (a) pointing their guns at sailors who they've deemed to be too close to "important ships"... which is tough to avoid when they set up a 500-yard "security" perimeter in a waterway that's less than 500 yards across(!) and (b) searching *whenver*they*want* your vessel, trashing it, and leaving you with the bill. Even before 9/11 they were using the "Drug War" as an excuse to toss boats, and since sailboats are easier to catch and have more nooks and cranies, they stop sailors all the time -- to train the newbie guardsmen!
There is *no* right to privacy / prevention of unreasonable search and seizure for a mariner on the water. Think about that. We've been fighting against the situation for years, but maybe now it'll start creeping into cars / etc and more people will understand why we're pissed!
Lot's of work is being done to further shore up the system. I once saw a demonstration of how an attacker could bring down an entire telecom infrastructure by skewing the GPS timing signals that a GPS-referenced clock uses to clock/syncronize the network. And the very same technology could be used to, oh I don't know, cause a supertanker on GPS-autopilot to veer off-course ?
How do you think that the terrorists knew what direction to head to get to The World Trade Center? After flying for around 30 minutes in an unknown direction (generally west) from Boston, the terrorist pilots took control of a plane and did not know where they were or what direction New York was. However, you can see the flight paths at: http://www.kerman94.com/911-Flights.HTM
Somehow they knew which direction they should fly to get to their intended targets, and it is not like there are roads or signs over rural West Virginia, New Jersey, New York State or Ohio directing planes where to go.
The two technologies availalble to the terrorists that I know of are Aircraft Radio Navigation Beacons and GPS. Aircraft Radio Navigation has several systems, but most have a normal maximum range of 100-200 miles, the terrorists were probably beyond this range for a New York based radio beacon, meaning they would have had to use multiple sequential beacons to navigate.
GPS, as anyone who has a GPS handheld can attest to, would be very easy to use to set a navigation way point for the World Trade Center, and simply follow the direction pointer while in the cockpit until you can spot the Towers.
Removing GPS capabilities over the Eastern US (these are satelites, not cell-towers) would have been very disruptive to people & companies who use the technology, but may have helped foil the attacks.
Any idea how they control the birds from the ground stations? I know in europe there were problems with bad kids moving satellites around.
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
God forbid that in a drunken stupor down at the waterfront bar you roar "@#$% Bush, I'm taking Swansong down to Havana"! You'd wander down to the dock and find your slip empty!
they used to measure the signals from stationary radio statios (am broadcast) and determine location based on this. You could do that too.
All of you forget about quite nicely working Russian GPS system. http://www.glonass-center.ru/ With all these shiny new Topol M ballistic missiles, I suppose GW Bush would think twice before attacking russian satelites. I've used a GLONASS receiver. Quite cheap russian stuff, made by Electronica. Quite precise, quite good.
now I'm hungry...
This is a rational response, and this is exactly the problem. Psychopaths are like diodes; energy only travels one-way. Bush is wired so that all his actions lead to misery and destruction, whereas the general wiring of normal people is such that we feel a gut-level desire to give the benefit of the doubt and auto-correct in our own ears and minds the broken logic of the psychopath because we assume we are dealing with another rational being.
Here's a clip from an article on Psychopathic behavior. .
Some Bush quotes. . .
... 9/22/97
... 5/20/96
"You're free. And freedom is beautiful. And, you know, it'll take time to restore chaos and order order out of chaos. But we will." George Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2003
"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history." "If I decide to [run for President], it will be to restore the promise of America. And I'll define what that means later." (11/15/98)
"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."... 9/15/95
"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
"The future will be better tomorrow."
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."... 8/17/93
"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it."
"Well, I think if you say you're going to do something and don't do it, that's trustworthiness."
"I mean, there needs to be a wholesale effort against racial profiling, which is illiterate children."
"You f--cking son of a bitch. I saw what you wrote. We're not going to forget this."-- to writer Al Hunt, 1998
"They misunderestimated me."Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000
"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000
"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."-Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000
"The most important job is not to be governor, or first lady in my case."-Pella, Iowa, as quoted by the San Antonio Express-News, Jan. 30, 2000
"I think if you know what you believe, it makes it a lot easier to answer questions. I can't answer your question." - Reynoldsburg, Ohio, Oct. 4, 2000
"Natural gas is hemispheric. I like to call it hemispheric
Well, GPS is readily available, cheap, and highly accurate, but there's some pretty simple alternatives out there: radio navigation systems have been around since the 1930's, and could be made to work off radio or TV broadcasts. If a terrorist is sufficiently skilled to engineer a cruise missile, I doubt that they'd have any trouble building one of these. Not accurate enough? Need a backup plan in case the government finds out about your plan and turns off existing radio transmitters? Simply get three or four of your terrorist mates to determine the exact location of several high points within a couple of miles of your target, and wire up some portable beacons. A couple of minutes before the missile reaches its targets, turn the "terminal guidance" beacons on...
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Let's put a b in front of russkies and change the us to ew. Now if you had him fight those, he'd be in a better mood and he wouldn't be a problem to you guys... eh?
Bless those Mackenzie brothers *tear*
Exactly,
You look at modern counter-battery artillery, they have the ability to calculate an incoming shell's ballistics, figure out where it came from, come up with a firing solution and fire all in the space of a few minutes (2-5). This is the reason something like 99% of US artillery is self propelled. Shoot and scoot.
On the other hand, many of the smaller morters are man-portable, so while you might use a small computer to set up the initials, the starting settings and wind adjustment are somewhat variable, you might not have time to ensure perfectly flat base placement and that's what makes a ranging shot necessary.
I don't read AC A human right
GPS was hardly used in Sept 11th. See big building, fly into it. No GPS required.
By the time the US knows they're under attack, it is too late the damage is done. Turning off GPS will instead cause huge confusion. What gets used to track/monitor/control fire trucks, clean up crews,..? Yup commercial grade GPS. What gets used to synchronise the phone systems and internet backbones and all the comms stuff required to execute the clean up?? Yup, commercial grade GPS.
Shutting down GPS will not stop terrorists, it would just make things worse. Perhaps though it would make Joe Sixpack feel that the military is doing its best.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
It also isn't being done by the person who the submitter thinks it is being done by.
'...the President's plan...' seems like a serious misattribution, since the person in question demonstrably can't plan his way past eating a pretzel.
Perhaps '...the Administration's plan...' would be more accurate?
I'll add a reply to get the attention... the article makes it sound as if the plan is already in place. The submitter made it sound like it's being thought about. What do you guys thing?
(I'm confused how that is off-topic... )
No, at least not since SA was deactivated. So long as you've got some WRSs (Wide-Area Reference Stations) all around you, it won't make a difference. This is because of the way the WAAS solution is performed. Corrections for each satellite are based on data from several sites. For Ionospheric corrections, a solution grid (of IGPs, Ionospheric Grid Points) is projected above the Continental US (CONUS), and the receiver makes corrections based on that, not directly on a nearby site.
Not sure I get your meaning here. HDOP isn't relative to other locations, it's a given for a certain position according to the satellite geometry at the time.
HDOP is more related to GPS than WAAS, so your final resulting error with WAAS, with a good HDOP, will be better than your final resulting error with WAAS, with a bad HDOP, since your initial uncorrected (GPS only) error was better with the lower HDOP.
When - When would it be shut down
Why - Why would it be shut down
Where - Which areas would be shut down
How - How do we shut it down, and how do we operate without it.
Exactly. Is there really a plan? Or is the President just staging an act of "acting decisively" in front of the press and the public -- one of this administration's most commonly used PR ploys.
On 9/11 , about 2800 people (exact number is still unclear) suffered a terrible death in the terrorist attacks. Yes it was horrible. No, we don't want it to happen again.
However, the current measures taken by the US government are going way too far, it's not worth reducing freedom for in any way whatsoever, the risk of being killed in a terrorist attack is extremely small. Yet, somehow, the perception of this risk is inflated enormously.
Yes, "only" 2800 people died. But you seem to have selective amnesia as to the terrible toll the economy and travel industry suffered as a result.
Is it worth a fair amount of effort to keep the economy from collapsing entierly? I think it is. Sure you could go on killing "only" 2800 people every day for a long time and there would still be a lot of people left in the US. Your or my risk from being killed would be slight.
But I'll warrant after a few weeks of daily events like that they'd all be living in bunkers and certainly not out helping the economy stay fluid. You and I might still be alive but what good would that be when a run on our banks destroyed our savings and we all lost our jobs, because there were no jobs any more?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What does boycotting a product from any country even mean anymnore?
By boycotting "American" products, about the only things I can think of are movies, the iPod, and Windows. I can see where you could go without.
But mainly you're just boycotting stuff made in China or other places, and if the movement to not buy "American" really took off you'd pretty much be screwing over China. And a screwed-over China is an Angry China, which I'm not sure you would really like more.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
CDMA falls apart in a number of ugly ways when the towers lose precise sync. Not only does soft handoff fail, but neighboring towers start interfering with each other. The way I understand it, even when soft handoff isn't actually taking place, the towers are still carefully coordinated so that most of the time, your phone can see several pilots, but only uses one. When sync fails, all those good zones turn into bad zones, with the phone only being usable in the areas where it can see one tower and one tower only.
All the Nortel CDMA gear has some amazingly precise Trimble receivers which can provide "hold-over" timing for a while in the absence of a reference signal. I'd assume other vendors are similar. Having run for a while (minimum 24 hours?) with a good reference, the local oscillators are now "disciplined" and essentially self-calibrated.
Aside from CDMA, the rest of the telecommunications network also relies on precise synchronization. SONET links experience slips and degradation if there are timing problems. And although your traceroute doesn't show the lower levels, I'd guarantee your internet packets flow over SONET links at least a few times in their route. (Hint: Anything leaving a router in Chicago and popping up at a router in New Jersey was not on the same piece of glass the whole time.)
Luckily, the clocks used in all this are pretty good, and having had plenty of time under an external reference, their holdover quality should be excellent. Most offices have a redundant pair of GPS receivers feeding a pair of Rubidium oscillators, which provide stratum-2 holdover accuracy for a minimum of several days. Totall loss of signals from the Navstar constellation shouldn't really bother the equipment for a week at the very least. Or, the government could shut down all the satellites except one per area, which would make position information useless but still provide a good clock reference.
However, consider this: All the reference receivers are programmed to trigger an alarm when they lose satellite lock. In the event of a disruption, your average NOC is going to be so flooded with these alarms, they might not notice other noteworthy events. In the even that a major outage was detected, it might be falsely attributed to sync failure, even if the actual cause was much more sinister.
The unintended (but fully predictable) consequence of a Navstar blackout might be a window of opportunity for criminals, thieves and terrorists alike.
why use gps?
I wonder what the *opponents* would use GPS for? GPS is great for finding unknowns, like your current position or a position you want to navigate towards. But you dont need GPS for locating a known like a city or infrastructure.
sps, pps
Back in my undergrad days I remember that GPS had 2 modes of usage: standard positioning service (sps) that degraded the information (lat and long, elevation and time) by 5%. Remember for nav 5% of anything is a lot. This is commonly used by the public. Precise positioning system (pps) is about 5 times more accurate than the sps in lat/long and elevation and about 2/3 more accutate in time. This is the restricted military version. It is more accurate and has various counter measures to avoid being compromised and is restricted in use.
availability
The kicker is that pps requires the use of restricted kit, encryption and hardware. It can be made unusable through encryption.
why shutdown
so why the shutdown? does this mean the *opponents* have access to GPS pps hardware and encryption? If the pps GPS was being interfered with (a real possibility) then you might expect some anti spoofing counter measures.
How would they use it? Is GPS being used not only to position but time events? Personally I doubt it as a 50c quartz watch does just as good a job.
My bet the reason for shutting down withing the US is to avoid marine navigation. The only way the US can avoid opponents using ships is to turn off GPS as a last ditch attempt.
references:[1] NavStar GPS Operations, USNO NAVSTAR Global Positioning System.
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/gpsinfo.html
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
I'd say the conversation went like this:
Europe: Why should we let you turn off our system?
USA: Because otherwise we'll use one of these if we have to.
Europe: Okay, we'll turn it off if you say so.
USA:Thanks.
I don't read AC A human right
Terrorist enemies don't use GPS, they want to destroy GPS in a public event that gets on TV to scare the public as much as possible. That makes this disappearing GPS response a terrorist dream come true.
--
make install -not war
It makes it difficult for the EU to justify funding Galileo as long as they're on good terms with the USA, and the USA is promising not to turn it off over them unless there is serious need(or they ask). The ability to selectivly degrade the public service over limited areas means that the EU's shipping & stuff isn't "being held hostage". At least, when you compare the risk of the USA shutting off the system to the cost of putting up a competing network.
Add in that the USA pretty much said "If you put it up, we'll deploy the capacity to jam or destroy it" and the EU doesn't even get to say "you'll have to cooperate with us to have us turn our system off".
I don't read AC A human right
Satellites need an accurate time source in order to maintain proper orbit and orientation. This used to mean building in an expensive atomic clock, not it means including a GPS receiver and using the GPS signal as the clock. I wonder, if GPS were selectively shut down over an area if that would impact other satellites.
Hi The comments I am hearing on this topic are a bit ott. Just consider a few points: 1 ) The reaction of the US government since 9/11 is understandable but in some ways its does harm and good in equal measure. Any terrorist group wants your reaction to be extreem. It works for them, you errode your hard won freedoms. I am not looking forward to my next trip to the US (not because of the US) but because I have to be photo id'ed and finger printed (even though we are called allies!) You must get people on one side for this war on terror to work, here is an example. Imagine a motorway (freeway) full of standing traffic in both directions as far as you can see for 4 or 5 hours. This happened here in the UK in response to IRA bomb threats on moterway bridges. There were none but the disruption was massive. But the atmosphere was good people got on with it and strolled about or played footbal in the fast lane (don' get to do that too often). 2 ) The EU doesn't hate the US, some people have said this but its crap. However comments about shooting down satelites as "doing whatever is needed" are doing the US no favours. Gevernments can use the phone. I am sure bubba got someone to program his phone speed dial to work if he wants to call Tony. The US gov must build bridges not try and order the world around. 6 Billion on the planet 250 million in the US, thats about 24 to 1.
...I would randomly scatter simple and cheap locator beacons beforehand, measuring their coordinates with GPS. Then I could later return to that general area and dynamically triangulate my position with GPS accuracy regardless of GPS availability.
They should be banned,outlawed .
Take an airline like everybody else or hire a real pilot to fly your private jet.
Those skys belong to everyone not you propeller head pricks.Flying is noisy dangerous and elitist.
Instead of being injured by the terror attack, victims would be both injured and LOST. Injured and lost, just like the dead SUICIDE BOMBER[s] that initiated the strike. Yes. I THINK I understand it.
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
I get it now, the US Government wants to control the sky, the land and the sea on this earth, you see....but its the corporations that want to control, what you think, what you buy, what you learn, the air you breath. And this will not change. Every species has its day... unfortunately were close to having ours...extinction.
Godspeed my friends.
Read...
p er .trail/
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/05/22/hijack.pa
The article says that at least 3 of the hijackers had purchased GPS receivers, and possibly all 4...
If you have a programmed waypoint in the GPS receiver, it will literally display an arrow that points in the direction you need to go. Makes navigation into childs play.
Admittedly, shutting down the entire GPS system or part of the constellation probably would not have helped on September 11th, as we were caught with our pants down.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
He can't spell GPS.
The EU is making the exact same plans on our side, if you can take Galileo, we can take GPS. Anyone have a problem with that? huh?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
In the movie Die hard, the thieves wanted the power to the building to be shut off... so they pretended to be terrorists, knowing what the FBI's protocols would be.
So now, when the terrorists of the world want to create chaos, and want to make sure that emergency vehicles which rely on GPS for positioning and commuunications cannot respond, they do something to have Homeland Security shut down GPS.
Great work guys!
Especially after you've announced that you've developed plans to shut down the GPS system in the event of a terrorist attack. There are probably at least a few terrorists who have newspaper subscriptions, so they are also aware of this.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Where you guys been? Slick Willy (Pres Clinton in case you forgot) made this executive policy almost 5 years ago. Heres the press release: http://www.gpsforvfr.com/white_house.htm Read carefully. In addition to turning off selective availability, the US reserves the right to deny selectively. It's just been reiterated by W.
All of a sudden mountain climbers walk off cliffs, planes crash into mountains, boats run into bridges, men have to stop and ask directions and small puppies go unfound. Better hope the next 9/11 isn't a foggy day.
Those who look into the details of our reality and choose to see them without bias and to learn from them and to adapt accordingly will have a far less difficult time as things continue to heat up. Those who choose to rationalize and avoid looking at the problems will get flattened. They will look up one day in horror and wonder how it ever came to pass.
Knowledge protects. Ignorance endangers.
-FL
How they've fallen, oh the mighty Things are looking more sober Because your skills aren't valued as highly The nineteen nineties are over. You will have to make more with less There isn't much there you can do. This might mean taking second best You might want to start dating fat chicks too. It's not fair, when you have to compete, Things will start to get tight It's not going to 'scale,' it looks like you're beat you can't win that fight you can't win that fight you can't win that fight you can't win that fight no, you can't win that fight.
when the shit hits the fan in CONUS of the sort of crisis they are talking about, that means that all the emergency services, police, emergency management agencies, volunteers and many other will lose the benefit of the GPS as well. As someone that works in emergency management, this seems like handicapping yourself to make a bad situation even worse...