One on side, you've got people telling newbie's that vi is the only word processor you'll ever need, and on the other, you have people insisting that linux lacks an install shield because they're too ignorant to click on the rpm icon in konqueror/nautilus and have it work properly.
No matter what the truth is, people will always think that Linux is hard to use because it's not Windows. Today, a guy at work told me that Linux will never catch on because there is a lack of virus software for it. I had to explain it to him, he still didn't believe me!
Newbie - "How do I use my dial up modem in linux, using redhat 7.2?"
Expert - "First of all, you need to make sure ppp is compiled into your kernel, then recompile, RTFM."
Newbie - "Is there an easier way?"
Expert - "Yes, but first, lets's get you all the kernel patches, since you're using 2.4.9, which has some known VM problems under high loads, then, we'll need to gut your X server, then, you might as well recompile/build KDE, since the one in Red Hat sucks, which comes with GNOME, but I think it sucks, so I'll make sure that you think it sucks too... you know, if you used Debian, this wouldn't be a problem...."
Of course! I mean, without Intel Pentium IV's how could we "enjoy the wonders of the Internet at faster than light speeds...", and I'm sitting here like a sucker missing out on the special features that one gets by using a P4 to surf the Internet.
Re:Go ahead, remove all the doc
on
The LDP and Debian
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
They aren't a company. They believe in Free Software specific to certain licenses, it's an ideal more than a product. They'd be hypocritical if they didn't do this.
You make a lot of good points, but you have to admit that Sep 11th gave the government a clean run at passing laws that would otherwise have a very difficult time getting on the books. The second we start giving up personal liberties for the sake of security is the beginning of the end.
I consider myself a well intentioned American, but I'd rather have my civil liberties protected than live with some of the laws that have been passed. We have to find the right balance.
This is all relative of course, we're in a stable system, it's not like we're in 1968...
I agree entirely. I'm quitting my comfy computer job (gave my two weeks last friday) because all I friggin' do is read slashdot and slack all day. When I go home I won't even turn on my PC because I'm so sick of being a keyboard monkey.
I do this all day too... and it sucks... I can crank out a powerpoint presentation or word document, or manage my email at about 4 orders of magnitude faster than my cohorts, which to say the least are not computer literate. I spend the rest of my time showing them how to use their computers because they are too lazy to learn.
Show them a keyboard shortcut and you're an 'expert'. Give me a break... I'm soooo bored....
I wanna do like that guy in Office Space... "Fucking A...."
Yep. The net is a commercialized extension of existing systems in The Real World. More spam for everybody...
No utopia of free thought and expression, with furious online debates in a sort of "Digital Renaissance".
How did it get like this? How is it that most internet traffic ends up at either an AOL or MSN owned site? (according to some report I read somewhere, don't remember).
Surely, the Internet is populated by people intelligent enough to know when they are being corralled and taken advantage of? Where did it all go wrong?
I have always believed that people watched the garbage on Network Television because of the influence of the networks in the history of the development in television. The net was supposed to change this, allow individual people to express their opinions, and allow netizens to get information from ANY source. The geeks were in charge, and here first, we would show people the way to digital enlightenement... Now the masses are 'stuck' with AOL/MSN and don't even know/care enought to know better.
That's what we get for making this stuff "easy to use"... more spam for everybody...
I'm not saying that Microsoft is completely blameless, I'm just saying that it's not 100% Microsoft's fault.
It just seems that all these software companies blame Microsoft because they can't keep up, and that might be true, but these guys aren't helping their own situations any.
Maybe what - 60% MS monopolistic prices, 40% own vendor incompetence. Sure, 60% is high, and unfair, but there is never an excuse for incompetence either.
"Everyone thinks, poor Netscape, they were a victim of MS practices" - yes, they were, and yes, they innovated, but come to think of it, NS4 was crappy software that sucked.
"Poor Real Networks, MS is integrating all that stuff into the OS." - Good riddance... IMO anything Real makes has never made it out of Beta, and naturally, don't unload the stupid System Tray icon that leaks memory like a sieve, because "you could lose some key features and performance benefits."
We blame Microsoft because their software sucks, and their practices suck... but come to think of it, the only people to blame is Microsoft's competition, with their heads up their asses who can't put out decent software that works. Windows 95 didn't become the standard because it was great software, Win95 became the standard because OS/2 was marketed improperly, and IBM didn't work hard enough with OEMs. (that's gonna bring on flamage, so go ahead)
Only now, with Linux and Open Source, can WE the users contribute to what we want, not what some guys proposed business model wants. I mean seriously... I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, having to put up with their software, but then again, I don't see many other "competitors" really trying...
ICQ pioneered instant messaging, but give me a break, the things been in beta for years and uses up more memory than most anything.
My note to all burgeoning software companies - Make me something that doesn't suck,and I'll pay for it, don't force me to upgrade every 20 minutes to a more bloated piece of crap that is nothing more than a "portal" for all those neat advertising engines you've snuck in there....and I swear, if I hear someone say "monetize the desktop".... heh...
This sounds like the true Exchange solution many of us are looking for - It is proprietary and closed though.
Before the flamage on Ximian begins, let me just say, that the businesses that this product is for have already invested in closed source software, so I think its a great idea to finance Evolution this way.
Most 'community' sites are basically all clones of each other. Pick your favorite subject. There is always a forum, weblog, obligatory Yahho Group. Now multiply that by 50.
Nowhere is this more rampant than the linux community.
How many linux news sites running slash/scoop/nuke are linking to all the same stories? Can you even tell them apart?
It doesn't matter where a surfer goes, eventually it all goes to the same syndicated Reuters stuff, ZD FUD, or goatsex.
I have the same setup as you.. as of right now, I don't think there is a killer app, I just follow The Carmack's mighty upgrade plan.... upgrade at the release of every new id game.:)
Ok you got me.... SGI does alot of cool stuff, but can SGI do what Dell, Compaq, HP, and Gateway can do?
Sure, they do alot of the plumbing work, but without the Generic PC OEMs putting Linux on their systems, then where can we go? Linux can be the best thing since sliced bread, but unless the PC OEMs start giving users options, it will remain in the server room and on the desktops of/. users.
Considering where SGI is right now performance wise, (I am a shareholder and am feeling the pain), I certainly would put SGI on the leaderboard as far as contributions to the community.
A buddy of mine bought 5 rackmount servers with cabinet and a kit to convert his company's current server to a rackmount.
We had to call Dell multiple times and sit through at least half a dozen nested menu options (the dead end ones that force you to hang up suck) trying to get the bundled Red Hat deal with them. Half of the reps didn't even know they offered linux, this is from the server people mind you. And then, come to find, the linux options are just as expensive as the windows options, if not more.
"No, I want Linux, I don't want you to email me information about win2k advanced server." Say that a few dozen times. sigh.
So, the poor wretch bought the Red Hat 7.1 package "specialy certified to run on Dell hardware" for $150.
When the servers arrrives he gets the cardboad box for RH7.1 (no cover, so you can't even put it on a shelf to look cool), and NO STICKERS. Oh yeah, a photocopied sheet of instructions for installing Redhat.
Dell buys Red Hat, and then jacks up the price, THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST GIVEN US THE DAMN REDHAT STICKERS!!
Don't let any of these OEMs try to kiss up and say that they support linux, and they are doing everything they can to help the community blah blah... This letter is a reaction to the bad karma that they got from "he Register Cable Select Debacle"
So far, IBM is the only large company that is doing a damn to help Linux. At least HP was smart enough to say "We don't know shit about Linux or their community, let's hire Bruce Perens...."
Very nice release so far, mail/news seems to be "catching up" to the browser function.
The tabbed browsing is almost up to galeon-level, though the speed is still slow, and its missing an (X) to close individual tabs. Use ctrl-w to close tabs in the meantime. This feature is quickly becoming my favorite.
One thing that continually bugs me is the total lack of performance of the linux builds compared to the windows builds. On windows, moz is FAST, and getting faster, and I don't mean just the turbo-load stuff... does anyone have a reasonable explanation on why the performance is so radically different between linux/win.
From my daily usage, mozilla on windows is "done" as far as for what I need to do, on linux, it still has a long way to go.
"Where is our business model if everyone else can copy it?" asked Holger Dyroff, former CEO and now director of sales for Linux software seller SuSE. "The question is where we can make money now. Nobody cared about profitability two years ago."
Oh, ok, his company didn't care about profitability two years ago, and SOMEHOW, this is open software's fault, hey wait a minute, isn't YaST closed source?
"The development model of open-source software is wonderful. But let's not confuse a development model with a business model. Basic business principles were forgotten by some," said Turbolinux Chief Executive Ly-Huong Pham.
Now that is the smartest thing I've heard regarding OSS companies and their lack of profitability.
This is all bandwagoning - If you are an incompetent company, you are going to fail, regardless, evidently SuSE didn't even care about profitabilty until recently... WHAT!? I'm sorry, but you could be selling liquid gold and still fail with that mindset.
I've been spoiled by the past Pixar projects. I was really disappointed that there was no outtake reel at the end of the film.
It was an excellent movie, not as funny as Shrek, but definatly a worth see. The animation was all there, especially the snow rendered on Sully's hair in Nepal. I was drooling on my lap.
The little bird short at the beginning was f'ing HILARIOUS.
How many open-source WINDOWS Qt Applications have you seen lately?
Cause I've seen totally 0, none, nada.
Qt license is free only for linux/bsd OSS.
And this is bad how? You mean people that charge money for software have to PAY for a QT license? And people who write free software pay nothing? How is that bad? If anything it enforces the advantages of free software.
Who cares about open source apps for windows? It's a closed operating system! Everyone pays money to develop on Windows anyways, its always been that way. But everyone is anti-QT because commercial companies have to pay.. give me a break.
It gets pretty serious when something like this gets tied to, for example, your credit report.
Imagine this at the grocery store:
"I'm sorry Mr. Soandso, your NationalID has been placed on hold, seems like your rent is overdue, I'm sorry, we cannot accept this payment until your ID is cleared, I'm sorry."
"But I paid that, It's a mistake, WTF?"
Lady smiles, thinks 'loser':
"I'm sorry, you need to call Oracle central systems to clear this"
phonecall - "Welcome to Oracle Services, you are caller number 1234223, please hold, Mr. Soandso, GPS Location - Detroit, MI. Debt found on account, terminating phone with AT&T ID, disabling electronic key in FordID-capable car."
"F*CK!"
/me gets off the computer and resumes reading '1984'.
So now everyone thinks that services is the next big thing that will save the IT world and all the tech companies, so everyone is lining up for a universal ID system, which will somehow be tied to.NET/Java2EE or whatever like this:
<conjecture and humor>
The Microsoft Network, the only online service that ties directly into your NationalID, so you can do your taxes, use government services, and chat all with one service! Use your NationalID at amazon, cdnow, and others. Remember, the IRS deadline for NationalID is next month, don't get stuck using 'non-standard' protocols like Quicken, or paper.
Oracle - Oracle saved 34 billion running its ID on its own ID system, how much will the country save?
Sun - We're the ID behind NationalID.
</conjecture and humor>
By selling a National ID Card system that is smart, these large companies can leverage that to tie in more 'services' to 'integrate' this to whatever they are selling. In other words, more spam for everybody....
As much as we hate to admit it, the government sets a standard, not really on purpose, but because they pick something and stick to it (MS Office for example). Now, take that standard and use it to get a leg up in industry... the goverment uses it, you might as well use our system, because they do too...
Slashdot Mirror
One on side, you've got people telling newbie's that vi is the only word processor you'll ever need, and on the other, you have people insisting that linux lacks an install shield because they're too ignorant to click on the rpm icon in konqueror/nautilus and have it work properly.
No matter what the truth is, people will always think that Linux is hard to use because it's not Windows. Today, a guy at work told me that Linux will never catch on because there is a lack of virus software for it. I had to explain it to him, he still didn't believe me!
Newbie - "How do I use my dial up modem in linux, using redhat 7.2?"
... you know, if you used Debian, this wouldn't be a problem...."
....
Expert - "First of all, you need to make sure ppp is compiled into your kernel, then recompile, RTFM."
Newbie - "Is there an easier way?"
Expert - "Yes, but first, lets's get you all the kernel patches, since you're using 2.4.9, which has some known VM problems under high loads, then, we'll need to gut your X server, then, you might as well recompile/build KDE, since the one in Red Hat sucks, which comes with GNOME, but I think it sucks, so I'll make sure that you think it sucks too
Newbie - "What's a Debian?"
... and so on and so forth
Of course! I mean, without Intel Pentium IV's how could we "enjoy the wonders of the Internet at faster than light speeds...", and I'm sitting here like a sucker missing out on the special features that one gets by using a P4 to surf the Internet.
They aren't a company. They believe in Free Software specific to certain licenses, it's an ideal more than a product. They'd be hypocritical if they didn't do this.
You make a lot of good points, but you have to admit that Sep 11th gave the government a clean run at passing laws that would otherwise have a very difficult time getting on the books. The second we start giving up personal liberties for the sake of security is the beginning of the end.
...
I consider myself a well intentioned American, but I'd rather have my civil liberties protected than live with some of the laws that have been passed. We have to find the right balance.
This is all relative of course, we're in a stable system, it's not like we're in 1968
I agree entirely. I'm quitting my comfy computer job (gave my two weeks last friday) because all I friggin' do is read slashdot and slack all day. When I go home I won't even turn on my PC because I'm so sick of being a keyboard monkey.
... and it sucks ... I can crank out a powerpoint presentation or word document, or manage my email at about 4 orders of magnitude faster than my cohorts, which to say the least are not computer literate. I spend the rest of my time showing them how to use their computers because they are too lazy to learn.
... I'm soooo bored....
... "Fucking A...."
I do this all day too
Show them a keyboard shortcut and you're an 'expert'. Give me a break
I wanna do like that guy in Office Space
Yep. The net is a commercialized extension of existing systems in The Real World. More spam for everybody...
... Now the masses are 'stuck' with AOL/MSN and don't even know/care enought to know better.
... more spam for everybody ...
No utopia of free thought and expression, with furious online debates in a sort of "Digital Renaissance".
How did it get like this? How is it that most internet traffic ends up at either an AOL or MSN owned site? (according to some report I read somewhere, don't remember).
Surely, the Internet is populated by people intelligent enough to know when they are being corralled and taken advantage of? Where did it all go wrong?
I have always believed that people watched the garbage on Network Television because of the influence of the networks in the history of the development in television. The net was supposed to change this, allow individual people to express their opinions, and allow netizens to get information from ANY source. The geeks were in charge, and here first, we would show people the way to digital enlightenement
That's what we get for making this stuff "easy to use"
I'm not saying that Microsoft is completely blameless, I'm just saying that it's not 100% Microsoft's fault.
It just seems that all these software companies blame Microsoft because they can't keep up, and that might be true, but these guys aren't helping their own situations any.
Maybe what - 60% MS monopolistic prices, 40% own vendor incompetence. Sure, 60% is high, and unfair, but there is never an excuse for incompetence either.
True, MS's monopolistic policies notwithstanding:
... IMO anything Real makes has never made it out of Beta, and naturally, don't unload the stupid System Tray icon that leaks memory like a sieve, because "you could lose some key features and performance benefits."
... but come to think of it, the only people to blame is Microsoft's competition, with their heads up their asses who can't put out decent software that works. Windows 95 didn't become the standard because it was great software, Win95 became the standard because OS/2 was marketed improperly, and IBM didn't work hard enough with OEMs. (that's gonna bring on flamage, so go ahead)
... I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, having to put up with their software, but then again, I don't see many other "competitors" really trying ...
.... heh...
"Everyone thinks, poor Netscape, they were a victim of MS practices" - yes, they were, and yes, they innovated, but come to think of it, NS4 was crappy software that sucked.
"Poor Real Networks, MS is integrating all that stuff into the OS." - Good riddance
We blame Microsoft because their software sucks, and their practices suck
Only now, with Linux and Open Source, can WE the users contribute to what we want, not what some guys proposed business model wants. I mean seriously
ICQ pioneered instant messaging, but give me a break, the things been in beta for years and uses up more memory than most anything.
My note to all burgeoning software companies - Make me something that doesn't suck,and I'll pay for it, don't force me to upgrade every 20 minutes to a more bloated piece of crap that is nothing more than a "portal" for all those neat advertising engines you've snuck in there....and I swear, if I hear someone say "monetize the desktop"
This sounds like the true Exchange solution many of us are looking for - It is proprietary and closed though.
Before the flamage on Ximian begins, let me just say, that the businesses that this product is for have already invested in closed source software, so I think its a great idea to finance Evolution this way.
Great job guys, keep it up!
Most 'community' sites are basically all clones of each other. Pick your favorite subject. There is always a forum, weblog, obligatory Yahho Group. Now multiply that by 50.
...
Nowhere is this more rampant than the linux community.
How many linux news sites running slash/scoop/nuke are linking to all the same stories? Can you even tell them apart?
It doesn't matter where a surfer goes, eventually it all goes to the same syndicated Reuters stuff, ZD FUD, or goatsex.
Everything's been done, we're in a rut
I have the same setup as you .. as of right now, I don't think there is a killer app, I just follow The Carmack's mighty upgrade plan .... upgrade at the release of every new id game. :)
So Doom3 = new card for me.
Soldiers continue to live in shitty housing, with hardly any benefits, and get paid like crap while counted on to sacrifice their lives.
Yet another Army idea due for the scrapper after countless $$$ is spent. Remember how much they spent on Land Warrior before they canceled that?
Ok you got me .... SGI does alot of cool stuff, but can SGI do what Dell, Compaq, HP, and Gateway can do?
/. users.
Sure, they do alot of the plumbing work, but without the Generic PC OEMs putting Linux on their systems, then where can we go? Linux can be the best thing since sliced bread, but unless the PC OEMs start giving users options, it will remain in the server room and on the desktops of
Considering where SGI is right now performance wise, (I am a shareholder and am feeling the pain), I certainly would put SGI on the leaderboard as far as contributions to the community.
Nice Try Dell,
... This letter is a reaction to the bad karma that they got from "he Register Cable Select Debacle"
A buddy of mine bought 5 rackmount servers with cabinet and a kit to convert his company's current server to a rackmount.
We had to call Dell multiple times and sit through at least half a dozen nested menu options (the dead end ones that force you to hang up suck) trying to get the bundled Red Hat deal with them. Half of the reps didn't even know they offered linux, this is from the server people mind you. And then, come to find, the linux options are just as expensive as the windows options, if not more.
"No, I want Linux, I don't want you to email me information about win2k advanced server." Say that a few dozen times. sigh.
So, the poor wretch bought the Red Hat 7.1 package "specialy certified to run on Dell hardware" for $150.
When the servers arrrives he gets the cardboad box for RH7.1 (no cover, so you can't even put it on a shelf to look cool), and NO STICKERS. Oh yeah, a photocopied sheet of instructions for installing Redhat.
Dell buys Red Hat, and then jacks up the price, THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST GIVEN US THE DAMN REDHAT STICKERS!!
Don't let any of these OEMs try to kiss up and say that they support linux, and they are doing everything they can to help the community blah blah
So far, IBM is the only large company that is doing a damn to help Linux. At least HP was smart enough to say "We don't know shit about Linux or their community, let's hire Bruce Perens...."
oh I see it .... i was expecting an X in every tab .. guess I'll have to play with it to see if it works better.
Very nice release so far, mail/news seems to be "catching up" to the browser function.
... does anyone have a reasonable explanation on why the performance is so radically different between linux/win.
The tabbed browsing is almost up to galeon-level, though the speed is still slow, and its missing an (X) to close individual tabs. Use ctrl-w to close tabs in the meantime. This feature is quickly becoming my favorite.
One thing that continually bugs me is the total lack of performance of the linux builds compared to the windows builds. On windows, moz is FAST, and getting faster, and I don't mean just the turbo-load stuff
From my daily usage, mozilla on windows is "done" as far as for what I need to do, on linux, it still has a long way to go.
What is making mozilla slow on linux?
go Mozilla!
"Where is our business model if everyone else can copy it?" asked Holger Dyroff, former CEO and now director of sales for Linux software seller SuSE. "The question is where we can make money now. Nobody cared about profitability two years ago."
... WHAT!? I'm sorry, but you could be selling liquid gold and still fail with that mindset.
Oh, ok, his company didn't care about profitability two years ago, and SOMEHOW, this is open software's fault, hey wait a minute, isn't YaST closed source?
"The development model of open-source software is wonderful. But let's not confuse a development model with a business model. Basic business principles were forgotten by some," said Turbolinux Chief Executive Ly-Huong Pham.
Now that is the smartest thing I've heard regarding OSS companies and their lack of profitability.
This is all bandwagoning - If you are an incompetent company, you are going to fail, regardless, evidently SuSE didn't even care about profitabilty until recently
otherwise, someone might actually implement this while its still useful ....
In other news, the ICANN today approved the use of 'electricity' on the Internet.....
I've been spoiled by the past Pixar projects. I was really disappointed that there was no outtake reel at the end of the film.
It was an excellent movie, not as funny as Shrek, but definatly a worth see. The animation was all there, especially the snow rendered on Sully's hair in Nepal. I was drooling on my lap.
The little bird short at the beginning was f'ing HILARIOUS.
Star Wars trailer, disappointing....
How many open-source WINDOWS Qt Applications have you seen lately?
.. give me a break.
Cause I've seen totally 0, none, nada.
Qt license is free only for linux/bsd OSS.
And this is bad how? You mean people that charge money for software have to PAY for a QT license? And people who write free software pay nothing? How is that bad? If anything it enforces the advantages of free software.
Who cares about open source apps for windows? It's a closed operating system! Everyone pays money to develop on Windows anyways, its always been that way. But everyone is anti-QT because commercial companies have to pay
I for one am glad that they pissed off mosfet, I've been waiting for continued development of Liquid for quite sometime. Go Mosfet!
I wonder what kind of stuff some of the old Be guys could contribute to GNOME/KDE.
Don't get me wrong, I like the BeOS, but with Linux starting to make headway and gaining momentum, it would be awesome for these guys to jump in.
For me, some of BeOS's goodness in KDE3 would make me drool, all technical issues asside.
Replying to myself ...
It gets pretty serious when something like this gets tied to, for example, your credit report.
Imagine this at the grocery store:
"I'm sorry Mr. Soandso, your NationalID has been placed on hold, seems like your rent is overdue, I'm sorry, we cannot accept this payment until your ID is cleared, I'm sorry."
"But I paid that, It's a mistake, WTF?"
Lady smiles, thinks 'loser':
"I'm sorry, you need to call Oracle central systems to clear this"
phonecall - "Welcome to Oracle Services, you are caller number 1234223, please hold, Mr. Soandso, GPS Location - Detroit, MI. Debt found on account, terminating phone with AT&T ID, disabling electronic key in FordID-capable car."
"F*CK!"
/me gets off the computer and resumes reading '1984'.
Ok,
.NET/Java2EE or whatever like this:
....
... the goverment uses it, you might as well use our system, because they do too ...
So now everyone thinks that services is the next big thing that will save the IT world and all the tech companies, so everyone is lining up for a universal ID system, which will somehow be tied to
<conjecture and humor>
The Microsoft Network, the only online service that ties directly into your NationalID, so you can do your taxes, use government services, and chat all with one service! Use your NationalID at amazon, cdnow, and others. Remember, the IRS deadline for NationalID is next month, don't get stuck using 'non-standard' protocols like Quicken, or paper.
Oracle - Oracle saved 34 billion running its ID on its own ID system, how much will the country save?
Sun - We're the ID behind NationalID.
</conjecture and humor>
By selling a National ID Card system that is smart, these large companies can leverage that to tie in more 'services' to 'integrate' this to whatever they are selling. In other words, more spam for everybody
As much as we hate to admit it, the government sets a standard, not really on purpose, but because they pick something and stick to it (MS Office for example). Now, take that standard and use it to get a leg up in industry