Slashback: Dell, 800, Disclosure

Slashback this evening brings you an update on the (departed, or departing) Bleem; an open letter from Dell on Linux support for some of its line; another creative way to fight spam; and some gaming updates for everyone whose thumbs still function.

Spinning so had they can feel it in Ft. Worth. L-Wave writes: "This Story is running on linux.com. Apparently Dell has written an open letter toLinux users. 'Dell has published an open letter to its Linux customers "clarifying" its position as regards the insurgent OS. Actually, the letter is headed "Clarifying Dell and Linux," but either of these would be a massive task, and we think we know what they meant to say.'"

Please note that all Dell is saying here is that they will load customer-specified software at the factory -- it's probably convenient for some customers, but nothing new for Dell. In the case of software with expensive licenses, it means some simplified paperwork. With Free software, it just means convenience. The letter is therefore rather lukewarm, but at least a lot better than refusing to install software that doesn't include a licensing markup.

Brush up on your polite conversation skills. doublem writes: "This site lists the toll-free numbers of known Spammers, so they can be called, harassed and otherwise vented against for their crimes. Something tells me the ./ crowd will like this sort of thing as evidenced by this recent article. I'd like to add 1-888-288-9043 as the number for the well-known VORTEX SUPPLIES, a collection of jerks who refuse to take me off their mailing lists." I started doing the same a few months ago, but this guy has me beat by miles, even if he doesn't list Miss Cleo's number thanks to Psychic spam that knew I'd react with a call.

Yessir, our team goes into action right after the first fortnight. jeffy124 writes "Microsoft has admitted knowledge of an IE bug a full week before a security firm announced it. Turns out sec firm Online Solutions privately informed MS of the bug Nov. 1, but MS initially said they first heard of it Nov. 9 after Online made the find public the same day. MS claims standard procedure of allowing themselves two weeks in order to make sure someone's not cryin wolf and write a patch. They also claimed that no breaches occured during that wait. MS says that Online acted responsibly in their actions, and "'apologizes for innacurate statements.'"

You mean the lawsuits didn't kill it? Far from certain conpiracy theories advanced after Bleem published their own epitaph ShadeEagle writes: "Here we find out that Sony didn't know about Bleem's death until they were asked about it. Gamespot has more relevant information as to the possible (or impossible) future of Bleem." And another gaming note: mickeyreznor writes "According to this article on CNet, Sega appears to be in good financial shape despite the trouble they've had with the dreamcast. In addition, 60 games are being planned for X-box and PS2 over the next year. Sega's future looks bright, and that can only be a good thing for gamers."

Comments

microsoft were probably just patching

[nihilist_1137]

everything else and making sure that this patch wouldnt open up any holes for a few weeks.

Re:microsoft were probably just patching

[rmgrotkierii]

Actually MicroSlu^H^H^HSoft did release a PRESS RELEASE stating they DID sit on the hole, quoting it was making sure it was *real* and not a hoax.

ZDNet

Linux Secuirty

*shrugs*

Yehaw!

[thetechweenie]

Well, nice to hear... The thing is, I'm won't by my linux box from dell, I'm going to build it myself... Sorry, dell, I'm glad their semi cool with Linux now, and because of that I'll point customers to them, but I can build my own machine for 1/4 - 1/3 the price...

Now I wan't some turkey!

Re:Yehaw!

[jdrogers]

umm, maybe you should actually read the article. Its not clear to me that Dell is now 'cool with linux'.

I do agree that I will probably always build my own systems, but it was nice to see one of the really big suppliers offering linux. Dell did that for a while. You could select redhat instead of win when you ordered a system. In august, they quit doing that, and if you read the article, its not as if they are about to start again.

JD

Emulation

[r.suzuka]

It upsets me personally to see the death of various console emulators. I have a friend who did work on such a project while completeing a Math degree here at the University of Tokyo. This was in 1996/7 if I remember correctly.

He released some tools such as a disassembler which while of course not for emulations, Sony did not like so much. Sony sent him an unfriendly letter and unfortunately my friend removed his tools from public access ;_;

It is especially bad since he was simply trying to assist the hobbyist PlayStation programmer. It is too bad Sony does not realize their loss.

R. Suzuka

Re:Emulation

[George Walker Bush]

Doesn't the PS just use a basic MIPS R3000-derived processor? The MIPS instruction set is not exactly a trade secret.

If the disassembler was a generic one that just dumped the MIPS instructions out, and otherwise did not use Sony intellectual property, I don't see how Sony could have a legal leg to stand on?

Re:Emulation

[X-Dopple]

Bleem died for a number of reasons, but one that particularly stands out in my mind is their complete arrogance towards people who bought the PC version of bleem. They stopped updating for compatibility with newer games, their forums were closed because of 'a technical error' and when the Bleem page was finally updated, it was to announce Bleemcast, leaving PC owners in the dust. They told people to write 'BLEEM!' on the registration cards for new PSX games and send it in to Sony to prove that Bleem boosted PSX sales. Obviously it didn't work.

Maybe -- just maybe -- had they adopted UltraHLE's policy of emulating the BEST GAMES FIRST, they wouldn't be in this mess. In my opinion, UltraHLE is still one of the best emulators due to its compatibilty with the best games. Games such as Final Fantasy 8 didn't work right, and Bleem's only response was basically 'update your drivers, wait for an updated version, or screw off'

Anyone wanting to charge for an emulator better learn from Bleem's example.

Micro$oft is silly

[creative_name]

That's all I have to say about that.

XBox, bah

[Vardamir]

If there wasn't a Wintendo before now there is.

But I was thinking, since MS looses about 100 dollars or so on the sale of each Xbox, why not make a huge cluster of them at MS's expense (by using Linux, obvioulsy)?

Re:XBox, bah

[Bullschmidt]

By jacking up sales, you actually make it cheaper for them to make them, so eventually they make money on the XBox - economies of scale. Its expensive at the start, but in the end they make money, even off the box, once they get production ramped up and going hard. So you are really just helping them along to making money on it.

Re:XBox, bah

[Bitmanhome]

Because MS then waves their sales numbers in the faces of game makers, and says "Lookit all these sales, wouldn't you rather write games for them instead of those other silly consoles?" So PS/2 and RubixCube die instead.

-B

Re:XBox, bah

[The Pi-Guy]

Yes, they lose $10 per box. But as you buy more and more of them, they regain more and more of their R+D costs back, bringing it to $9 a box. Now Sega, they are losing money on their $50 DCs, but.... --joshua

why anti-MS?

[Frothy Walrus]

"We are obviously not going to respond instantly--we have to sieve the wheat from the chaff to determine how reliable the vulnerability warning is," said Neil Laver, Windows product marketing manager for Microsoft. "Until we can investigate the issue, we are not going to issue a bulletin, as that would create a crying wolf situation."

can anyone argue with this? think how easily a crapflood of spurious security vulnerability reports could erode MS' product reputation. i would say if they didn't do this, they'd be acting irresponsibly.

so why the anti-MS tone? there's enough about them that's worthy of criticism; let them alone on the other points.

Re:why anti-MS?

[innocent_white_lamb]

"We are obviously not going to
respond instantly--we have to sieve the wheat from the chaff to determine how reliable the vulnerability warning is," said Neil Laver, Windows product marketing manager for Microsoft. "Until we can investigate the issue, we are not going to issue a bulletin, as that would create a crying wolf situation."

can anyone argue with this?

I can. It doesn't take a week to recreate an exploit like this and say, "OH shit!"
br>Microsoft is a large enough company to have someone on the job whose exclusive responsibility is to read incoming exploit reports and IMMEDIATELY test the described method. Immediately after that (ten minutes after the report arrived, if they have a bunch of configured machines immediately available - again, MS is big enough to afford this) they can say, "Report verified. Issue a bulletin and get the engineers on the job fixing that bug."

In the case of a major (or any) exploit, there is no excuse for a large outfit like MS to require more than an hour or two to verify that a problem exists. Actually fixing it will probably take longer, but the fact that the expolit exists should be immediately published so those running the affected software can decide if they want to take their servers off-line or take some kind of self-protective action.

Re:why anti-MS?

[geekoid]

getting something like this done in 2 weeks isn't bad for a large corporation, and considering how meeting centric MS is, 2 weeks is pretty damn fast.

Re:why anti-MS?

[innocent_white_lamb]

getting something like this done in 2 weeks isn't bad for a large corporation

But THIS is security! To take a real-world example, if you break into a bank at night and start carrying out the cash, the security guards don't have to stop and ask their supervisor to wait for the next board meeting (in three weeks) to obtain permission to apprehend the criminals.

There's no room for bureaucratic bullshit in matters of security. You set a policy that affords the maximum protection to your customers, and follow that. No ad-hoc decision-making required. If there's a possible exploit, test it NOW and report NOW and release an advisory RIGHT NOW. Period. Just like apprehending the criminals on the way out of the bank. "Halt! You're under arrest!"

Re:why anti-MS?

[Darkfred]

In the case of a major (or any) exploit, there is no excuse for a large outfit like MS to require more than an hour or two to verify that a problem exists.

Wow! you really have no idea how software development and engineering departments work. With an engineering department that can switch gears and start projects as fast as the one you described we would be able to get a new version of windows ever 2 months.

I will explain to you how most large bug reporting/engineering systems work. First a secretary or intern will be assigned to read the bug mail and sort out the legitimate problems from the lunatics writing in that your product just SUCKS.
If it is a legitimate bug report and it includes all the information necessary to reproduce it then it gets entered in the bug tracking/administration system. An email or memo will be sent to the manager of the division that handles testing.
The manager will assign the bug to a tester who will try to reproduce it. That is after he has worked on all the other items in his queue that have a higher priority. Once he has reproduced it he identifys what component causes the problem (or guesses). And add adds the item as a reproduced bug to the bug tracking system.
The manager in charge of the division that handles that system or component will get the notice and eventually get around (depending on priority) to assigning the bug to an engineer.
The engineer will then start working on the bug, but only after he has already completed what he was working on at the time, and cleared any higher priority items out of his queue as well.

It would take at least a day to go through any one of these steps. And even more time depending on how busy people are and what priority rating the bug gets. Plus in larger companies these things actually go through more steps such as priority assignment meetings and impact analysis.

In short your expenctations are insane. When you are dealing with a company of any size about 30 employees you have to use a system to kepp all of them working, or you are loosing money. That means you need to manage tasks and verify bugs before assigning them to engineers. And you don't have 30 engineers just sitting in the back room waiting to work on whatever you give them. They are probably already working on fixing another terrible exploit. The resources have to be allocated as you go based on what you see the threat as.

Anyway i hope this gives you a little more respect for the engineers who actually do this.

Regards,

Re:why anti-MS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Security bugs should be priority 1, and several engineers should be assigned to fix them. Even security holes that are only theoretically exploitable should be fixed immediately and without question.

Free Software projects get bug fixes done faster than Microsoft -- and they usually don't get paid for it.

Re:why anti-MS?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a kernel developer at the world's largest computer company. (No, not MS.) If a customer has a showstopper bug, that thing flies through tech support and lands on my desk. I fix it NOW. Overtime? Holiday? Too freakin' bad. Now means NOW. If one of my customers' big retail backend databases crashes on black Friday due to my networking code, I won't be sleeping off the Thanksgiving triptophan. I'll be at work, hacking. The only way it might take a while is if it isn't easily traceable to a particular component.

In the case of a well-documented application security hole, there's no excuse for not passing it to the owner immediately.

Re:why anti-MS?

[TinWeasle]

Excuse me, "erode MS' product reputation"???? They would have to have a positive reputation for security in point release products for someone to erode it. Before the asbestos long johns get toasty, let me state that, yes, I run an MS OS. Yes, I run MS apps. I am not anti-MS, just anti propoganda. That said, I would take it better if they said they didn't issue a bulletin so as to prevent knowledge of the hole leading to attacks. I won't comment on the engineering time, I've seen fast patches and slow ones. But I've also seen a whole lot of them regarding MS and security. Just my opinion. Not trying to troll here. My opinions are my own, my employer doesn't pay me enough for my opinions to be his.

Re:why anti-MS?

[shepd]

>Anyway i hope this gives you a little more respect for the engineers who actually do this.

I'm not the original poster, but I still agree with him. And I have respect for the engineers, as you'll soon see. :-)

>The manager will assign the bug to a tester who will try to reproduce it. That is after he has worked on all the other items in his queue that have a higher priority.

There's the weak link right there. Get rid of the manager. If it is a security bug send it directly to the people who handle it.

My lack of respect is for the manager that's so lazy they can't take 1 minute out of their lunch break to email the security bug of the day. And if you are getting more than 1 security bug a day from "tested" software I'd suggest you fire yourself for hiring incompetent engineers and testers!

Re:why anti-MS?

[Mr. Sketch]

think how easily a crapflood of spurious security vulnerability reports could erode MS' product reputation

Perhaps. However, in this case, the people who found the vulnerability provided Microsoft with working exploit code so it wouldn't have taken a single Microsoft employee more than a few hours at most to see that the exploit worked and that they had a problem.

Re:why anti-MS?

[Thatman311]

Whelp...that pretty much sums it up as to how it works at MS. It takes time and usually the developer that has to fix the issue has to look at code that is over a year old since they last looked at it. So there is some ramp up time for the dev to figure out how it is best to fix it. Then even after you have a "fix" the testers have to check it not only to make sure it fixes the security hole but that the functionality is what it should be and sometimes due to the fix that can spark off a round of meetings to figure out just exactly how the fix should be implemented since some functionality may have to be taken away.

Re:why anti-MS?

[Anonymous Coward]

God-damn what a bunch of fucking beaucratic losers, no wonder everything they do sucks-ass!

Re:why anti-MS?

[Anonymous Coward]

>>Anyway i hope this gives you a little more respect for the engineers who actually do this.

First of all, it is unfair to blame the rampant beaurocracy on the engineers.

Perhaps what you are right in saying that there are a lot of pathetic companies out there which don't put a priority on security but that's no excuse.

Verifying this particular security problem should not have taken a week.

I find it appalling that Microsoft has the gall to call open source anti-American in the face of there own pre-captilastic business processes. Haven't these guys heard of Henry Ford? In a capitalism efficiency is key.

And also Microsoft should not have lied about the people who reported the problem. That's just rude.

Re:why anti-MS?

[mvdwege]

Frothy Walrus wrote:

why the anti-MS tone?

Maybe because of this:

Neil Laver, Windows product marketing manager

.

Bruce Schneier has remarked on this before: Microsoft treats vulnerabilities as a PR problem, not a security problem. This article proves that, since it is a marketeer acting as spokesperson on this vulnerability, and not Scott Culp, who is in charge of security at MS, and who should by rights be commenting on it.

Mart

A couple of notes

[Legion303]

Regarding the tollfree spam site: he mentions that you should *67 first to disable Caller ID. 800 numbers, as he almost mentions, use ANI to track calls. Call these spamming motherfuckers from payphones unless you want them to have your home phone.

Also, he talks about some 800 lines being on a flat monthly rate. Don't let that stop you from calling up and wasting their time anyway (or calling and setting the phone down for the 3-minute message). When 10,000 bored Slashdot readers call these guys and rack up the minutes, believe me, the phone company will notice. Enough calls might be enough to make the telco selling a flat rate line think twice about renewing a contract.

-Legion

Re:A couple of notes

[bugnuts]

Yep. Consider an 800 number to be a collect call. You can't block the number, even if it's unlisted.

Re:A couple of notes

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, i work for a call center that has an 800 number.

It fills me with glee when I ask for someone's number for documentation (Just tech support, no marketing database... and I *do* understand why they have their number as being unlisted.) and they reply rudely. I just say "well, let me repeat what we already have in our records", then read off the ANI. They stammer for a good while after that, and generally act nicer :)

Re:A couple of notes

[$uperjay]

...And for the first time ever, the Slashdot Effect downs several large corporate *phone* switching boards.

Tracking down Spammers

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about everyone else, but I personally make an effort to find out who every spammer who sends me e-mail is. It takes 20 minutes out of my day each time but a phone call is much more effective then just opting out. Especially since they have a tendancy to sell the addresses of those that have opted out to yet more spammers.

Re:Tracking down Spammers

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally take the effort to hit "Delete" for every bit of spam I receive. It takes me about 8 seconds every day, given about 20 items. It might not be as effective, but it's a hell of a lot more productive than taking 20 minutes to track them all down.

Law

[VA Software]

Autodialing laws by state.

If you are so inclined ....

lets cost the spammers some real money!!!

[4444444]

got to http://www.goto.com and do a search for "bulk email" each link you click will cost the spam companys up to several dollars per click It's a great way to fight back it would be nice to /. their bank account

Re:lets cost the spammers some real money!!!

[DavidJA]

Does someone want to come up with a script to automate this?

Re:lets cost the spammers some real money!!!

[Banjonardo]

Whoa!

I cannot imagine the slashdot effect on one of these 5 bucks per click sites.

Let's see: around 450,000 registered users. Perhaps 30-40 would click on the first-page story link (anyone have a /. effect log?) * 5.85 per click....

yummy. Over 1 mil. That's one MILLION.

Re:lets cost the spammers some real money!!!

[shivan]

take a look at this description found here:

Safe Bulk E-Mail Service - Low Cost! Nowhere else on the Internet is it possible to deliver your bulk e-mail ad to so many people at such a low cost - spam free! www.spamfreebulkemail.com (Cost to advertiser: $1.21)

WE ARE SAVED : SPAM FREE BULK EMAIL :))

Re:lets cost the spammers some real money!!!

[Gibbys Box of Trix]

Excellent... although one of those links *really* hates Opera 5.12 though... locks it up hard.

How did you know you'd get UID 444444 before you chose your name? It's been a while since I signed up, but I don't remember being shown the # before the nick. A script, perchance?

Dell and Linux kinda a big deal

[compugeek007]

Getting Dell to maintain installation of Linux is kinda a big deal. I scope out servers from Dell often for my job, and I know as well as any other sys admin that when a box comes with any OS pre-loaded the first thing to do is wipe it out, resetup your RAID set and reinstall.

The importance is not that they load the OS, it's that they are treating Linux the same as Microsoft. PHB's like to feel secure, and knowing that Dell, a major player in the OEM server / PC market, is offering Linux as a platform they stand behind just like Netware and NT/2000 - makes them feel secure. It all comes down to big management catch words like "Enterprise" "Scalable" and maybe even a little "TCO."

The fight for Linux is not a fight of technical profecciency, that is already achieved, it is a fight of making managers at 35,000 feet feel comfotable with it. (IMO)

Re:Dell and Linux kinda a big deal

[alister]

You know what the odd thing is? I'm an IT Manager. My manager just doesn't care what OS we use - he wants (for example) our web server to remain up and a failover process if it falls over. He wants this data backed up.

Why the hell should he care what OS we're using? So he doesn't and I use a mixture of server OSes - including Debian. If you have an non-technical boss who mandates a choice of OS, you should consider (where possible) a word - s/he hired you because of your expertise, and if you reckon you can get better performance etc for lower cost blah blah then why should s/he care where it comes from?

Re:Dell and Linux kinda a big deal

[compugeek007]

I understand your point - BUT: For large corporations, there is a bigger picture. Most managers should KNOW that Linux can provide the same if not better availability than Unix, and light years more than MS - Like I said on my original post it is not a technical issue. The heart of the matter is that CIO's feel that Linux is still hard to support, and that implementing Linux means you are putting something in your enterprise hat will be unsupportable in the long run. This is why Dell supporting Linux is a big deal.

Re:Dell and Linux kinda a big deal

[DGolden]

You've got a good manager. What if your manager is country club or golf buddies with the local microsoftie, and just tells you to go microsoft regardless? Microsoft are GOOD at manipulating the opinions of the technically-clueless, by "networking". Happens all the time in Ireland+England, anyway. The subverted manager will just ignore what you say, and, when you quit*, they'll just hire a drooling-idiot MCSE to be their yes-man to back up their decisions to their bosses.

*of course, chances are, an already-subverted manager means that you woulnd't have been hired.

If you really want to get rid of MS stuff, you have to buy a few shares in the company, then go to the shareholder meetings, and vociferously question their IT overspend relative to a linux or bsd solution.

Re:Dell and Linux kinda a big deal

[ErikZ]

Because when you leave, your manager is going to have to find someone to replace you.

"So, we ran our shop on a mixture of Amiegas, PowerMacs, Some IBM machines running BeOS, and a few TRS-80s, just to show it can be done. Do you have experence with all these platforms?"

'er, no.'

"What?! Again? Doesn't ANYONE have experence with all these items?"

Dell letter

[doofsmack]

This could be good. Dell pre-installs linux on some comps, more companies will buy. Dell is one of the few good computer companies trying to sell to compaies. (IMHO, of course)

McLinux pre installed?

[burts_here]

Ok so Dell do it, (kinda) Whats the chances of MkLinux ever being preinstalled on a Mac. I know Apple have been partially involved in some of the development, I have no idea what the situation is now though. Thinking about it which companys do sell boxes with linux pre installed? Even if you end up just wiping and installing your favourite distro it saves you the pain of paying for Microsoft products that your never gonna use when you buy a box.
--

Re:McLinux pre installed?

[caryw]

Apple has completely dropped linux due to Mac OS X (BSD). This isn't a bad thing. Third party linux projects will always take place. Apple just isn't going to throw their money at them anymore.

Re:McLinux pre installed?

[burts_here]

Yeah but does anybody no if they used any of the code that was produced from that projuect in OS X? I'm don't know a lot about the diffrences between Linux and BSD but could they have used any of the drivers or did it all come from the Darwin project?
--

Re:McLinux pre installed?

[caryw]

To the best of my knowledge, Darwin was built from FreeBSD 3.1. Maybe some of the MkLinux staff was transfered over to OS X, however.

Re:McLinux pre installed?

[demon]

No one bothers to use MkLinux anymore - it's old and out of date, and you can always run a native kernel on the pre-PCI systems now (it's a little old, but it works, I have 3 PowerMac 6100s running Linux, running the distributed.net client - yeah, yeah, I know :). What's the point of converting a monolithic kernel to run on top of a microkernel anyway?

Still an improvement...

[gurth]

As part of an organization that has standardized on Dell's product lines, the more support that Dell gives Linux, the happier I am. My own Dell-Linux experiences have moved from being simply horrible to at least tolerable these days (at least in their server lines).

Disloyal Dell

[jeffphil]

Dell has been losing face for a while IMHO.

First they jumped on the almighty Linux bandwagon a few years ago, claimed open source this and that, but in reality they never did anything to help the cause.

In fact, when they were selling linux on machines you could configure two exact systems - one with linux and one with windows, and the windows box was always around $200 less than the same linux box! It makes economic sense to buy the window box then wipe the drive and install your own linux. No wonder they had no demand.

Dell does not give a sh*t about their customers, their employees, or GNU/Linux.

Re:Disloyal Dell

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course they don't care about Linux. Dell is a public company and companies only care about making money. Period. It's their obligation to their stockholders. You're just being naive if you think they would promote anything out of the goodness of their heart or because they think it's the "right thing" to do.

Dell jumped on the Linux bandwagon for the same reason everyone else did, they were hedging their bets in case it took off and there was a way to make money from it. It was more a matter of not wanting to be left behind as opposed to wishing to promote Linux. That's the way big business works and you're just plain silly if you want to get angry at Dell or any other company for that matter.

The bottom line for you is to not purchase their products if you feel that way, but in the end it won't matter one bit to them either way.

Re:Disloyal Dell

[jeffphil]

Companies do things all the time "just for the good of it." That's why they participate in Charities, that's why they offer customer support which makes them no money. In their books they can actually valuate this as "GoodWill" which increases the value of their company and thus increases shareholder value.

Yes, all the other companies jumped on the same bandwagon as you say. -- However the rest are following through with their words. -- Dell is not, and Dell made a bigger fanfare than any of the other big computer makers and never did one single thing except put a page on their site that rarely worked.

And don't worry, this "naive person" stopped buying, recommending, and supporting Dell a year ago. The "bottom line" for me is not just to stop buying their products, I also have the right to tell others why they should stop being Dell zealots and get a clue as to what this company is really all about --> making Michael Dell rich.

Re:Disloyal Dell

[Anonymous Coward]

You would say companies do things for goodwill and I, being a marketing person, would say they do things for good PR, and a tax writeoff. That's the bottom line. There may be some people, on a personal level, who go beyond the defined rules of a company and do good things of their own will, but WRT a companies business plan it's all about the money, and if good PR will help then they do it.

I would say they aren't generating squat from Linux PR anymore by the looks of things. I really don't see this as a bad thing though. It just means we are finally through with the "hype" and "linux buzzword" phase and we can get back to reality.

Sorry, I'm not flaming you, but I do stand behind my statement that you are being naive.

Re:Disloyal Dell

[Anonymous Coward]

Er, yeah, except since they put a $5 winmodem in the windows box instead of the $90 real modem like in the linux box, your modem wouldnt work. And who knows what other cheap-ass hardware they can use in the win box to save money, that wont work in linux? Sure, you could add/replace that afterwards, but then you didnt really save any money, unless you got them at a five-finger discount..

My company bought a dell with linux on it about a year ago, and it was a far better piece of hardware than the other dells with windows on them were.

Now, Im still by far a fan of build-your-own, but this was a flawed argument..

Re:Disloyal Dell

[jeffphil]

>> and I, being a marketing person, would say

Nuff said.

I hope your Dell telephone sales are better this holiday season. Oops, your phone's ringing, better get back to work.

Re:Disloyal Dell

[Foos]

In fact, when they were selling linux on machines you could configure two exact systems - one with linux and one with windows, and the windows box was always around $200 less than the same linux box!

Hmmm, in my experience buying Dell servers and workstations, it was either the same price with Linux or Windows 2K, or in most cases it was a few hundred dollars less with Linux.

Re:Disloyal Dell

[compugeek007]

mod this up - this guy speaks truth.

Re:Disloyal Dell

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh piss off, you smarmy retard.

You're a prime example of why a lot of people are turned off to Linux. I don't work for Dell, I've never owned a Dell, and I run Linux on two of my home computers, as well as Solaris on my sparc. I've also written about 30,000 lines of code in a GPL open source project that a little fuckwit like you can download for free on your 1337 linux machine.

Just because someone tells you something you don't want to hear you immediatly jump to some wild conclusion instead of either debating or actually providing some facts to back up your opinion. So piss off asshole, I wish you and all your 1337 haX0r pals well in your mission to rid the earth of those evil anti-linux corporations. Moron.

Oh yeah, feel free to take this one as a flame you little pissant.

Re:Disloyal Dell

[ErikZ]

Ahem, my business classes seem to point at other reasons.

Like getting rid of inventory that no one will buy to get a tax break.

To improve your community relations, because before you started helping out in the community, everyone hated your company. Now you can get laws passed in your favor.

Free publicity.

Re:Disloyal Dell

[Anonymous Coward]

So piss off asshole, I wish you and all your 1337 haX0r pals well in your mission to rid the earth of those evil anti-linux corporations. Moron.

Is this some kind of marketing mojo?

I've also written about 30,000 lines of code in a GPL open source project

If you're so proud of it post the link. If you're so proud of your flaming faggot troll posts, stop posting as Anonymous Coward.

Seriously, jeffphil has very valid points that DELL is a whiny pussy corporation. He never said they were evil, you did. How much does it cost them to even offer Linux based systems? My guess is next to nothing. Their profit should come from their hardware not reselling MS Windows.

The main point jeffphil makes is that DELL talks the talk, but they don't walk the walk.

Mod this up, I'll take it.

Re:Disloyal Dell

[Anonymous Coward]

Reason number two why people are turned off to Linux is because the Linux zealots call them trolls if you tell them something they don't want to hear.

That's actually why I post anonymously and don't have my real name on any Linux stuff I do, because most Linux fans are either 15 year old zealots or angry geeks who refuse to look at the forest because all those pesky trees are in the way. I give software away to the Linux community to give back a little something because I appreciate the fact that Linux gives me a great alternative to being forced to use Windows. Period.I sure as hell don't do it because I want your approval or because I want to be associated with you.

WRT to your statement DELL talks the talk, but they don't walk the walk I would guess that you've watched one too many Jackie Chan movies because you're certainly not a very well thought out person. They don't owe you or any other angry linux zealot a fucking thing. Why do you think otherwise?

And, How much does it cost them to even offer Linux based systems? I don't know but it's not cost effective to them or they would promote the hell out of Linux if it was. That's the point you can't seem to grasp. Dell is in the business of making money, if it would make them money I promise you they would rename the company to Dellinux and walk around with stuffed penguins up their ass all day.

Too late Dell ... too late....

[reaper20]

Nice Try Dell,

A buddy of mine bought 5 rackmount servers with cabinet and a kit to convert his company's current server to a rackmount.

We had to call Dell multiple times and sit through at least half a dozen nested menu options (the dead end ones that force you to hang up suck) trying to get the bundled Red Hat deal with them. Half of the reps didn't even know they offered linux, this is from the server people mind you. And then, come to find, the linux options are just as expensive as the windows options, if not more.

"No, I want Linux, I don't want you to email me information about win2k advanced server." Say that a few dozen times. sigh.

So, the poor wretch bought the Red Hat 7.1 package "specialy certified to run on Dell hardware" for $150.

When the servers arrrives he gets the cardboad box for RH7.1 (no cover, so you can't even put it on a shelf to look cool), and NO STICKERS. Oh yeah, a photocopied sheet of instructions for installing Redhat.

Dell buys Red Hat, and then jacks up the price, THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST GIVEN US THE DAMN REDHAT STICKERS!!

Don't let any of these OEMs try to kiss up and say that they support linux, and they are doing everything they can to help the community blah blah ... This letter is a reaction to the bad karma that they got from "he Register Cable Select Debacle"

So far, IBM is the only large company that is doing a damn to help Linux. At least HP was smart enough to say "We don't know shit about Linux or their community, let's hire Bruce Perens...."

Re:Too late Dell ... too late....

[mabinogi]

Hmmm.....we've had no trouble whatsoever with DELL and Linux....
We've bought a number of servers from them over the last couple of years, all with Linux pre installed.. and never had a problem..

We even had a case where we requested a server with redhat 7 preinstalled by mistake (We actually wanted 6.2 for use with Oracle) and they were happy to send us a copy of their DELL specific version of 6.2 (it includes drivers for the PERC raid controller that didn't exist in the RH version) at no charge.....

And we've ALWAYS received stickers ;) and printed manuals.

So maybe DELL Australia is a little more helpful than DELL America, or maybe we've just got a better account manager?

Re:Too late Dell ... too late....

[JLester]

We just buy them all spec'd with no OS. I don't trust anyone to pre-load my servers .. whether they are NT, Novell, or Linux .. we do it all ourselves.

Jason

Re:Too late Dell ... too late....

[Crispy Critters]

Why does Dell bother to offer Linux at all if they are going to give it such lousy support? I think it is because of the deals that they have with businesses and institutions.

I have a Dell on my desk which was bought with Linux on it (actually, they sent it to me with a blank hard drive, but that is a different story). Why? Because if I had bought a machine from one of the many vendors that sell Linux boxes, I would have had to file Selection of Source paperwork, get references for the vendors, et cetera. With Dell, all I had to do was get a web quote and send it to purchasing. Their mediocre Linux support was just barely sufficient to not drive me to another vendor.

Note that they flat-out refuse to sell hardware with Linux installed to an individual consumer. Why? They charge more for Linux than for Windoze, so the profit margin is higher. The only possible reason is (dare I say it?) anti-competitive marketing agreements with MS. Pure speculation on my part, of course.

Re:Too late Dell ... too late....

[compugeek007]

1. Red Hat Server is not Free - you can buy it from Red Hat if you want yourself for about $179. If you really are going to complain about $150 (small potatoes) you can buy the Servers with no OS and get Red Hat GPL and load it yourself.

2. Not getting stickers, manuals, or a box? Are you kidding? If I kept all the boxes, stickers, Manuals I got, I would have a sea of cardboard in my cube. I would prefer just getting the OS CD maybe documentation on the CD too (I never read it anyway) and no paperwork whatsoever.

3. All Dell is a major player in the small server market. You can't compare IBM and HP's monster boxes to Dell's. Plus both HP and IBM have a cadre of Computer Scientists and consultants to draw upon. Dell makes no pretenses about what they will and will not supply.

4. I have called DEll support / Service too. It sucks - no questions about that. I guarentee you that if your company was larger and had a dell rep - you would have AWSOME service. My rep bends over backwards and makes all sorts of things possible.

All and All, I think your experience is isolated and shouldn't be held against Dell.

Re:Too late Dell ... too late....

[Woko]

We must share account managers as I've had the same experience with Dell Australia. Order servers, haggle a bit over price, specify linux, and they arrive a couple of weeks later, with the stickers, manuals and RH 7.1 pre-installed.

The technical docs even included instructions on how to use ibm's network driver module instead of the default one.

Re:Too late Dell ... too late....

[autocracy]

They actually tried to convince me there was a federal law that says you can't sell a computer without an OS pre-installed because there were too many people too stupid to install it themselves. I'm only buying the latter part, and only a little at that...

Re:Too late Dell ... too late....

[TheLinuxWarrior]

I have to throw in my .02 cents on this one. I've bought many Dell servers with Redhat preloaded on them. All I got was the OS CDs, but that was all that I needed. I blew them away and reinstalled fresh anyway.

I think you're missing the bigger picture here. Where this counts is that you can call and get server support from someone who is trained on Dell servers running linux. You don't get that when you're running build your own crap at some mom and pop company.

And finally, if it really bothers you THAT much that you didn't get stickers, mail Redhat and ask for them, or get an eBay account and buy a Redhat box for $5 and toss everything but the stickers.

Re:Too late Dell ... too late....

[JHod]

Frothed the poster:

So far, IBM is the only large company that is doing a damn to help Linux.

I think you are a wee bit misinformed there...

• Remote host Linux kernel debugger via GDB
• Kernel debugger
• Linux scalability
• XFS Journaled File System

Lots more where those came from, and those are just ones that I use... And there are many other 'large companies' that contribute efforts for Linux and OSS in other ways, just don't stamp their name all over it. Just allowing an employee to publish work they do on OSS projects that benefit the company during company time is a big plus for us all, no?

Re:Too late Dell ... too late....

[reaper20]

Ok you got me .... SGI does alot of cool stuff, but can SGI do what Dell, Compaq, HP, and Gateway can do?

Sure, they do alot of the plumbing work, but without the Generic PC OEMs putting Linux on their systems, then where can we go? Linux can be the best thing since sliced bread, but unless the PC OEMs start giving users options, it will remain in the server room and on the desktops of /. users.

Considering where SGI is right now performance wise, (I am a shareholder and am feeling the pain), I certainly would put SGI on the leaderboard as far as contributions to the community.

These phone numbers are helping spammers.

[MongooseCN]

All these phone numbers are taken from spam mailings. The whole reason these numbers were put in the emails was because spammers WANT people to call them. Most of these numbers are just automated machines with menus you have to endlessly punch through before you can get to a real person. It's just like trying to reply to a spam mailing itself asking to be taken off the mailing list.

Re:These phone numbers are helping spammers.

[jonesvery]

The whole reason these numbers were put in the emails was because spammers WANT people to call them. Most of these numbers are just automated machines with menus you have to endlessly punch through before you can get to a real person.

Yeah...ok...but I believe that tthe point is that they're 800 numbers, so these companies will *pay* for that call whether or not you talk to a real person.

reverse engineering

[Doppler00]

I never understand why companies would discourage university students reverse engineering and learning about there product. If anything, Sony should make technical documents more public so that people could learn more about there systems and be more inclined to program on Sony's platform than a competitors.

Re:reverse engineering

[DahGhostfacedFiddlah]

That's right. Just the way IBM used off-the-shelf parts for their PC.

Because I'd rather they lose $400 bucks a box then

[sweetooth]

only loseing $100 dollars a box.

The most noble thing for Bleem to do...

[George Walker Bush]

It would be to freely release Bleem source code and contribute it to the public, or at least one of the many open-source PS emulation projects, since none of the open-source ones out there are in any sort of viable state now, for the most part.

pre-paid toll free lines

[rabbits77]

My understanding is that spammers usually pre-pay for their 1-800 lines with a flat fee. That way they can get any number of calls for a finite period of time and not worry about anti-spammers ringing them constantly and driving up their bill. Any substantiation/refutation of this?

Re:pre-paid toll free lines

[modemboy]

I thnik they probably do use flat fees, but if the line gets bombed I'm sure it's disconected or the rate goes up the next month. But I was under the impression that there is a fee for all pay phone calls to 1-800 numbers, so go call them from a pay phone.

Re:pre-paid toll free lines

[darkonc]

My understanding is that spammers usually pre-pay for their 1-800 lines with a flat fee.

It doesn't matter. They also have to pay the time for the people who deal with the calls, and/or they will have a limited number of lines to handle incomming calls. If you're on the line with a live person, you're costing them at least $.10/minute. (presumimg a $4.00/hr minimum wage lackey plus the cost of their office space). If you get a recording, then you're locking up that line.

In either case, nobody can connect to that line/person while you're there.

Re:pre-paid toll free lines

[rfc1394]

It doesn't matter. They also have to pay the time for the people who deal with the calls,

Places that take a lot of calls use equipment to process the calls in order to eliminate people.

If you're on the line with a live person, you're costing them at least $.10/minute. (presumimg a $4.00/hr minimum wage lackey plus the cost of their office space).

Federal law sets the current minimum wage at $5.25. This is in addition to the 3% federal unemployment tax, the employer's 7.5% share of the 15% Social Security tax, the state unemployment tax and overhead. (The other taxes are deducted from the employee's pay.) So if you do get hold of someone it's probably somewhat more than that. Good luck getting a live person.

Paul Robinson <Postmaster@paul.washington.dc.us>

Stop bashing the X-Box!

[Exmet Paff Daxx]

Everyone here is all upset because the X-Box runs Windows. Well, guess what. So did the much-beloved Dreamcast. When the Dreamcast came out, I didn't hear anyone moaning and groaning about Microsoft trying to take over the gaming world. What's different this time? So Microsoft is "making" the X-box: so what. That's just outsourced hardware. The Dreamcast ran WinCE and it eventually ran Linux, we can expect the same from the X-box, as well as the upcoming NetBSD port.

Operating system is hardly the most important consideration with regard to the X-Box. All consoles are sold at a loss, so if Microsoft decides to start selling outsourced hardware at a loss that runs Linux, that's pretty much a victory for us right there.

That said I think it's obvious to everyone in the industry that the X-Box is by far and away the most technically advanced console ever built. With nearly five times the polygon fill rate of a PS2 and 5 times the MHz of comparable Sega systems, this thing puts the wimpy PowerMac-wannabe "GameCube" to shame.

Don't let your prejudices blind you. The X-Box is an impressive piece of hardware - once everyone starts using them as Linux web servers you'll stop bitching.

Re:Stop bashing the X-Box!

[Daniel Wood]

What you're missing here is that the WinCE on DC was only for specific games. WinCE was used in very few games, it was only there to make development easier for some developers. WinCE was never stored on the DC, it was always on the GD-ROM. Unlike the XBox which has the NT5 essentials on the hard drive.

Re:Stop bashing the X-Box!

[Guillaume Ross]

Uh you didn't get it right... The DC *CAN* run windows - that doesn't mean it always does. Actually very few games ran windows CE..Worms Armageddon comes to mind..but real fast 3d games weren't based on Windows CE..

Re:Stop bashing the X-Box!

[fm6]

Everyone here is all upset because the X-Box runs Windows. Well, guess what. So did the much-beloved Dreamcast

Wrong on two counts. First, people care less about what OS the X-Box runs than the fact that any profit it makes goes into Mister Bill's pocket. Petty of us, perhaps, but he's already the richest person in the world. Shouldn't somebody else have a chance?

Second, the Dreamcast is Windows CE compatible. The OS is actually on the CD (shades of AppleDOS!) and its up to the developer which OS to use. I have three DC games (D2, Seaman, Shenmue), and only the D2 uses Windows. Sega's in-house developers seem not to like it -- can't imagine why.

Re:Stop bashing the X-Box!

[Anonymous Coward]

Play the X-Box and Gamecube side by side fucktard - this 'wimpy' RISC processor can easily keep up with your M$ whale while pushing more textures to boot

Re:Stop bashing the X-Box!

[gregorio]

Shouldn't somebody else have a chance?

So if Oracle starts selling videogames, you would be the first to buy their new product, huh?

Re:Stop bashing the X-Box!

[Anonymous Coward]

Petty of us, perhaps, but he's already the richest person in the world. Shouldn't somebody else have a chance?

Nobody else should have a chance unless they come up with something better. Thats capitalism, baby.

there is a script

[4444444]

There are a couple scripts and other ideas here

http://www.lenny.com/spam/

Re:there is a script

[Lostman]

I didn't feel like setting up the script that was posted there, but I did enjoy the site. Thanks for the post =]

Anyways, even though I didnt feel like setting up the script I still clicked the top10 bulk email links for goto. =] I wonder if the /. effect can be felt straight from net to wallet. . .

Re:there is a script

[devnullkac]

I just think it's incredibly amusing that no matter what this poor guy posts, whether interesting or informative, it's always rated a "4". Guess he should've waited to get User #555555.

Read the article mentioned above for bleem

[Anonymous Coward]

It actually is a good piece. If Sony Inc. actually spent ten million dollars against the developers, bullied vendors into not selling bleem products, and pressured vendors to remove other items they didn't like, that puts them in league with Microsoft, correct?

Over the past few years I spent about $300 on Sony-related items. It's nice to know that every dollar I gave them and then some went to pummel someone else to the ground. At least we don't hear about Microsoft suing the competition; I suspect that they're buying them up instead.

To conclude: big companies carry big sticks. Watch out, small competition.

Meanwhile...

[Otter]

In other Microsoft/bug news, the MSNBC Bug of the Day for yesterday offers this helpful tip:

Nov. 20: Don't mess with RedHat Package Manager files

RedHat Package Manager (RPM) files are compiled and prepackaged programs which can be downloaded and installed on Linux systems. It is possible corrupt the data in an RPM file so code is executed on a Linux system when the RPM is queried for version information. This is a difficult thing to do since the memory location of the hacker shellcode would need to be known. However, It's possible so don't mess with RPM files from untrusted sources.

I'd suspect Taco is moonlighting over there if it weren't for the correct use of the apostrophe in "It's."

Re:Meanwhile...

[sessamoid]

>>I'd suspect Taco is moonlighting over there if it weren't for the correct use of the apostrophe in "It's."

The use of the apostrophe is correct. It's the capitalization that's incorrect. The apostrophe is omitted in the possessive pronoun.

Re:Meanwhile...

[warpeightbot]

It is possible corrupt the data in an RPM file so code is executed on a Linux system when the RPM is queried for version information.

<TimAllen> Arooo? </ta>

Buffer overflow, or more MSNBC FUD?

I could see a buffer overflow happening in rpm, but really, I don't put anything past Unca Bill... particularly when Smith Barney today just put out a downgrade on MSFT that basically said the guys in Redmond have jumped the shark with XP and the XBox...

--
Shipping Penguins in Bill's backyard...

Re:Meanwhile...

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect that's why he said "if it weren't for the correct use"...

Re:Meanwhile...

[gorf]

Executable (EXE) files are compiled (possibly prepackaged) programs which can be downloaded and executed on Windows systems. It is possible to write data into an EXE file so that any code at all whatsoever can be executed. This includes viruses, trojans and the like. This is fairly easy to do so don't mess with EXE files from untrusted sources.

Re:Meanwhile...

[toast0]

i think msnbc is trying to say you should use debian? :)

nearly everything i've wanted to install on my debian system comes in debian unstable, so i just have to trust debian mirrors... :)

Bloody brilliant

[seizer]

What a brilliant idea - props to you (or whatever they say, these days, these young folk :-)

Question, though - can a spammer really afford to pay nearly $6 per *clickthrough*??

Reason enough to boycott Sony?

[idealego]

Considering everything they've unlawfully done to Bleem I'm not buying anymore Sony products. This is the only way I can help stop companies like Sony from doing things like this. Hopefully more will join me.

Re:Reason enough to boycott Sony?

[x136]

Knock yourself out. You can boycott 'em. That leaves more awesome high quality Sony products for me. :)

Re:Reason enough to boycott Sony?

[spir0]

hallelujah brother..

imagine you making some real nice hardware and some cheap arsed git allowing others to pirate your games and run them on their PCs while your nice piece of hardware is still selling.. and getting away with it..

I think bleem should have died sooner.

mind you, I'm not a cheap bum and can afford to buy my own games..

Re:Reason enough to boycott Sony?

[overturf]

Let me know how it's going and I might just join up with you after I've finished boycotting MS. HA!

economies of scale

[Pope]

Quick! Someone tell Amazon! :P

"McLinux?"

[Pope]

heh, nice typo there :)

I don't think A HREF="http://www.apple.com/macosx/">Apple would bother with an outdated project like MkLinux, especially since it only ran well on pre-PCI Power Macs.

Re:Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Go Yavista!

My beef with Dell (somewhat offtopic)

[zeno_2]

There is a problem that the new Dell machines are having, they won't admit it, but it is there.

If you have a newer dell machine that has Windows (tm) on it, check the uptime of the os (seems to be only machines that were built before may of 2001). If you are unsure on how to do this, just go to download.com, search for windows uptime, and download the Windows Uptime 1.3.3, its a tiny download, but you will be able to check this quickly... The problem with these machines is that they are not reporting a correct uptime of windows. I am not sure if this happens with other os's, my job only lets me see these that have Windows on them.. I saw a dell machine last week, it was a week old, but reported an uptime of 40 days. Ive seen another dell machine that said it had a 6 hour uptime on a fresh boot, and an hour later it says 30min uptime.

Dell isn't taking any responsibility in this.. I am really not too sure if it is Dell's fault, but it is only happening on new Dell machines. I have had 4 people call them up, and ask them why their machine does this, and they get one of 2 answers:

1 - We have never heard of this problem before, but don't worry about it

or

2 - This is a Windows problem, call Microsoft

Soo.. if you do have one of these newer dell machines, try looking at the uptime for windows. Heck, if it has linux on it, check it too. I know of a few games that will base their internal clock off of the Windows Uptime (dont ask me why, im really not too sure why they use windows uptime, Links 2001 is an example of a game that will use the uptime for the internal clock.) If you have a machine with this problem, document it and send the info to dell. They do have responsibility over the OS that ships with a new machine, but they are just pawning it off and screwing customers over.

Well there is my rant, I used to like dell quite a bit but lately their support is just utter crap. I am really suprised that if someone spends 3 grand on a machine, and then gets that from dell when asked about the problem, I would take the machine back myself..

If anyone knows/has a fix, or knows why this might be happening, please reply back, im kinda dying to know you could say =)

Zeno

Re:My beef with Dell (somewhat offtopic)

[biohazard99]

My guess is that it gives them a random seed from 0 seconds to 49.7 days, probably to call a function called "murphy"

/*Function invokes Murphy's Law*/

murphy (win_uptime, curs_pos_x, curs_pos_y, swing_power)

{
/* win_uptime is the system uptime in seconds, sets "random" seed
curs_pos_* are the x and y position of the strike point as selected by the user
swing_power is the swing power selected by the user

*/

if (win_uptime 12345) //we'll go easy on the guy

{ return 0;

} else (winuptime == 12345)

{ return 1;

} else (win_uptime > 4294081) //system should be dead already, here to prevent problems

{ write_random(); //writes random sequence of 0 and 1 to disk
crash_system(); //infinite loop calls to launch iexplore.exe, current record is 56 calls
return 2; //keeps compiler from spitting syntax error

}

}

switch murphy()

{

case 0:
return dont_alter_values(win_uptime, curs_pos_x, curs_pos_y, swing_power);
break;

case 1: return randomize_values(win_uptime, curs_pos_x, curs_pos_y, swing_power);
break;

}

I just realized how rusty my c++ is, might have to start using it again, and if your are a game developer, this one is public domain.

Re:My beef with Dell (somewhat offtopic)

[nolife]

What about the uptime reporting in msinfo32.exe (Microsoft System Information)? It gets installed along with a lot of MS products and I believe it is included on everything since Win98.

--SNIP--
Uptime: 0:14:47:56

Re:My beef with Dell (somewhat offtopic)

[zeno_2]

I am looking at the msinfo32.exe from Windowsxp, and I do not see the Windows uptime there.. I have looked on win9x machines too and I could not find it.. doesn't mean its not there.. Is it under the main system information section or some subsection on the left?

Re:My beef with Dell (somewhat offtopic)

[nolife]

I have msinfo32.exe 4.10 on Win98se.

It shows up with all the below information on the very top tab called "System Information". I have the same results on all of my Win98 machines, it is the first section of info when msinfo32 is run. Almost all of my Win boxes have the same software so maybe I have something else installed?

Microsoft Windows 98 4.10.2222 A
Clean install using Full OEM CD /T:C:\WININST0.400 /SrcDir=X:\WIN98 /IZ /II /IS /IQ /IT /II /NR /II /C /U:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
IE 5 5.50.4807.2300
Uptime: 0:07:44:59
Normal mode
On "CONTOUR" as "nolife"

AuthenticAMD AMD-K6(tm) 3D processor
192MB RAM
41% system resources free
Custom swap file on drive G (143MB free)
Available space on drive C: 513MB of 1064MB (FAT32)
Available space on drive D: 519MB of 1080MB (FAT32)
Available space on drive E: 478MB of 1080MB (FAT32)
Available space on drive F: 47MB of 1103MB (FAT32)
Available space on drive G: 143MB of 250MB (FAT)
Available space on drive H: 148MB of 1080MB (FAT32)
Available space on drive I: 1053MB of 1080MB (FAT32)
Available space on drive J: 1053MB of 1910MB (FAT32)
Available space on drive U: 1538MB of 2935MB (NTFS)
Available space on drive V: 3852MB of 24471MB (NTFS)
Available space on drive W: 1525MB of 2855MB (NTFS)
Available space on drive X: 1525MB of 2855MB (NTFS)
Available space on drive Y: 273MB of 930MB (NTFS)

Modem dialing...

[Mike McTernan]

So now all I need to do is to get busy with wget | sed, make some chat scripts and have my computer dial these guys when I'm not doing anything.

Of course, I'll have to modify the init string so that it doesn't try to negotiate a modem connection, otherwise it will fail too many times and the numbers will become BLACKLISTED.

Oh - and I need to move to the US since it won't be free otherwise :(

PSU/MIPS CPU and emulation thereof

[i_am_nitrogen]

This has been said many times before, but yes. The Playstation does have a MIPS-based CPU. It uses the mipsel instruction set (iirc) to be exact. PS-One's CPU is 33MHz, while the PS2's CPU is 297MHz. Numerous MIPS emulators exist, as do numerous PS-One emulators. The main challenge in emluating a Playstation is probably the sound and graphics processors. The PS2 GFX/CPU/sound system, called the Emotion Engine, is really a collection of different stock SGI CPUs, with a little Sony tweaking, all wrapped up into one. MIPS CPUs are faster than x86 CPUs of two or three times the clock speed, which is why the PlayStation2 at 297MHz is faster than the X-Box at 733MHz.

As for the disassembler question, if it in fact simply dumped MIPS instructions of hobbyists programs there would be no way for Sony to pursue legal action because the MIPS/mipsel instruction set is open. However, if the tool could be used to reverse-engineer games written for the console, Sony could have grounds for a lawsuit.

No, you can't.

[ghjm]

You claim to be able to build an equivalent system for 25% to 33% of the price Dell charges?

Back that up.

-Graham

Re:No, you can't.

[thetechweenie]

Uh, yeah. I install Dells, Compaq, HP's, IBM's, and a few other servers, constatnly for work. If you know where to buy your parts, than you can do it form MUCH cheaper...

Re:No, you can't.

[Demonix]

yeah you can.

'course, best I can do is 40 - 50% of thier prices, but still, it can be done.

Re:No, you can't.

[Anonymous Coward]

NO! He asked you to back it up, not some vague allusion to "knowing where to buy parts".

If you've got something cooking that's better than Pricewatch, why don't you share?

In other words, put up or shut up.

Your website sucks, by the way.

Re:No, you can't.

[thetechweenie]

OK, I buy my parts directly from a wharehouse that has the SAME exact parts. (Often they are in Dell packaging.) I was introduced to this place by a friend. He works full time, selling parts he purchases there on Ebay, and to local computer stores. So, there it's backed up.

BTW - My website does suck. For that I will appologize.

Who needs Dell?

[brokeninside]

Los Alamos Computers will build your Linux PC to order. They use quality components and do a bang up job.

Mines been up and running for several months now and I've yet to have a single complaint. This is so much better than the last time I went mail order and spent the entire first two months on the phone with tech support.

Regards,

-l

Bleem!'s Countersuit

[x136]

Sony first sued Bleem over its products in May 2000. Bleem countersued, claiming Sony was exercising an illegal monopoly over the video game industry.

Wow, they were scraping the bottom of the lawsuit barrel with that one.

"Vortex Supplies"

[mrsam]

This one is actually the latest sock puppet of scumbag Sam Khuri, the "Benchmark Print Supply" spambag.

As "Benchmark Print Supply", Khuri nearly went to jail for spewing out of his spamhole, and is really under a court order that prohibits him from spamming. He's just hoping that nobody would notice that it's really him.

What kind of support you people want?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am maintaining about 70 Dell's Poweredge servers of various sizes. The only support I am interested in is "Next Business Day On-Site Parts and Labor". I don't care if they know anything about Linux or not - I only care about how fast I'm going to get a new hard drive if one of them fails . If you need to call tech support to help you with installing and configuring Redhat, then you shouldn't be using Linux in the first place. I had trouble with some Redhat 7.2 drivers (megaraid, e1000 and of course eepro100), but as soon as I replaced them with the newest version (or Intel's own drivers), the problems went away. Based on my experience, Redhat and Dell's hardware work great together. Yes, Dell is pushing Windows Advanced Server (you don't have to buy it and you can also get all machines without any OS on them), and they will probably never have any AMD machines, but you have to understand that they need to keep MS and Intel happy. That's why Dell has the lowest prices.

Re:What kind of support you people want?

[Cirrocco]

I can understand that you don't want anybody screwing with your machine; it's your Millenium Falcon and you're its Han Solo and Chewie and NOBODY messes with it.

I'm the same way with my own R2 unit at work and everybody around me knows it. How do they know this? Because I am the local Computer Geek. I'm just an Administrative Assistant, true, but I run Linux at home and Win95 at work and people know that I'm the man to come to when the computer isn't doing what it's supposed to do.

But there are limits to my POWER and my knowledge. I have no way to affect the print servers, Java applications, and other things outside of my own system. These are things only (whatever their equivalent is) ROOT users can affect. I am not a root user on a print server locked upstairs and, even if I was, I don't know that I could do anything to it because I WOULDN'T USE A LOUSY HUNK OF JUNK WINDOWS PRINT SERVER TO BEGIN WITH! I'd use an old 133 MHZ, 32 MB machine with Linux left over in the "abandoned" pile to do it.

So, to answer your question, the kind of support I want is EFFECTIVE support. I want people to know what's what when I call them to fix a problem that I CAN'T DIRECTLY AFFECT! Too damned often this is not the case. They take no action and take no responsibility for the operation of these machines and the applications that go with them.

{begin Sgt. Hartmann rant} And to those who can't install Linux to begin with, well...get your greasy dickskinners off the hardware and go pick up a book! It's numbnuts know-nothing yardbirds like you that fuck up things for skilled people! Now get on your keyboard and compile me 30!{end Sgt. Hartmann rant}

Re:Crapback

[istartedi]

Well, at least it's not splashback. I hate when that happens. I mean, unless the bowl was flushed with alcohol, you never know what you might catch from that. Therefore, I propose the government mandate that all public toilets for #2 use should have at least a 6 foot drop to the water line. Sure some little kid might fall in and drown, but at least I won't have to deal with splashback.

So Dell will ship boxes with Linux?

[Guppy06]

That's nice. Now if only they let consumers have the option of not having to have one of those damned crappy Conexant winmodems. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if those machines with Linux installed still have said winmodems in them...

typo (?)

[Rubbersoul]

The story referring to polite conversation skills seem to say ./

I can't put my finger on it, but something with that just seems wrong ...

Bleem - any mirrors?

[jridley]

Crud, I bought a copy of Bleem. I haven't used it for a year or more, but I'd like to get a copy of the final version they shipped. It'd be nice if that was at least available. Anyone got any mirrors of it?

One word about Dell Linux

[beefstu01]

First and foremost, I would like to say that it was good when Dell offered Linux on their machines, I got my Inspiron 8000 and GX1 for about $200-500 less than a windows version.

-BUT-

The installations REALLY sucked. I had to go back and re-install Linux on both. On top of that, I also needed to dload the newest Linux (at the time, Dells shipped w/ RH7.0, when Red Hat had been shipping 7.1 for a long time). The problems ranged from not being able to have the CD drive toast CD's, or even read stuff to having the computer randomly lock up. All problems were fixed upon the re-installation, but it was a (minor) inconvience. I think that all Dell did was make one install image and then use them for all the machines, from laptop to desktop. I seemed to have fewer problems on the OptiPlex...Oh well

Just letting the public know about how *much* Dell cares about Linux. Next time I want a computer, I'll just buy the parts. (I would have done that, but these damned grants don't let you do that, now do they?) If people are really interested in getting a quality linux box, they should go to Penguin Computing at . My buddy just got a machine from them, and he tells me that they are the Alienware of the linux world.

make them call each other!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey. do what i did. call a bunch of them leaving the TOLL number of some of the other spammers. so now they call each other.

formmail.pl

[HaeMaker]

I get a lot of hits to formmail.pl (I don't have it installed, it just 404s). I found out that there is a bug in some versions that spammers can exploit to send spam.

Anyone out there have a good script to put in place of formmail that can do some "interesting" things?

Re:formmail.pl

[belgar]

There's a fix, if you use formmail. Go to Matt's Script Archive to get it.

Just Dell, no Wincrap, no Linux?

[magi]

This doesn't answer my big question - can I buy a Dell (or some other common) laptop without any operating system?

While having a Linux preinstalled may be good for some people, I don't really care. I'd probably re-install my own fav distro anyhow (especially as some manufacturers preinstall Caldera or something equally exotic/nonstandard).

Most essentially, I absolutely refuse to pay for any Microsoft software, especially if I wouldn't even use it.

Re:Just Dell, no Wincrap, no Linux?

[Buzzwang]

Yes you can get a Dell system without an OS. For some systems you can't order it like that online, but if you give them a call they're more than happy to help you.

I ordered a small server from them earlier this year and got it without an OS (and I promptly installed FreeBSD on it). Also, the company I worked at before I was laid off ordered 10 or 20 workstations a month, all of which were recieved with blank drives and the 7 servers we ordered while I was there were also ordered without an OS.

Re:Just Dell, no Wincrap, no Linux?

[magi]

Oh this is fun. I sent mail to the Dell's Finnish sales representative.

Me: "Hi, is it possible to buy a Dell laptop without an operating system? If so, how does it affect the price?"
SR: "We don't sell Inspiro laptops without an operating system or softwares. You can order a Latitude laptop without softwares or also without operating system. However, we have remove the pre-installed operating system, which work will cost you $40."
Me (pondering): "Also a Latitude might do. How much is the price reduced if I buy it without an operating system and other softwares, which are usually in the price?"
SR: "The basic price is without softwares and since the operating system is an OEM version, it doesn't affect the price."
Me: "Thank you for your answer. I understand that Dell as an OEM pays for the operating systems it installs on its products, so it's clear that it affects the price."
Me: "Understandably, I will not pay for products which I do not use, so Dell laptops are not an option for me."
Me: "If you change your offer, you may contact me."
Me: "Best regards, "

So great, if I want to buy a laptop without paying money for criminal organizations, I have to pay more. Absolutely great.

Same problem with Compaq. IBM sells some Linux laptops, but I think they have Caldera, and cost strawberries, and not even less than with Windows. Umh. DoJ, DO SOMETHING!

Even more interesting -

[wirefarm]

Is that that was his 43rd post - I wonder what he has cooking for his next post?

:-)
Jim in Tokyo

How much cheaper?

[Eneff]

Let's play two games.

Dell P4 1.8, XP and microsoft works 2001, 256MB Rambus('free'), 40GB, 1 year support, Geforce 64MB Mx, DVD&CD/RW (24x10x40) some cheapie speakers (harmon-kardon low end), modem, netcard. (oh, and 6 months MSN ): 1367 bucks

AMD 1.8, cheap MB (AMD 761), 256 ddr, decent case, fan, weak power supply (like dell), and more or less the same stuff on the dell is going to be 650 according to pricewatch. That's before "support" and getting reliable parts and XP and works.

When you buy the software, it goes up to abotu 1100. Not bad, but for the hassle of bottom barrel? Nah. That's assuming no piracy, either.

good luck with pricewatch parts... (no shipping included, there goes another 100 bucks) -- so 25-50 is rediculous.

Re:lets cost the spammers.. use a webcrawler

[Unipuma]

Hmm, what would happen if I entered that bulkmail site in one of those web-mirror programs, and tell it to explore the links from that page, one level deep, and run script continuously?
Now there's an application to keep running alongside the RC-5 client.

one more idea how to hit those spamming idiots

[dee why]

The problem as I see it: many people hate spam (especially sysadmin types like myself), but lack the time to hunt down and kill those idiots one-by-one.

The proposal: make a central database of 800 numbers,e-mail addresses and websites advertised through spam (rather big I figure). Then, anytime you get annoyed (about 10 times per day probably) by a spammer, first report the contact details and then run a script that randomly grabs say 100 email addresses from the database and sends loads of crap to them. Do the same with 800 numbers and website forms. If we get 10000 angry sysadmins sending loads of random crap or just angry letters to poor souls who decided to advertise through spam we may quickly make them get some clue and stop annoying us.

Of course, reasonable filters are mandatory - e.g. an 800 number gets added to the database only after 10 people from different subnets report it.

Email on Demand!

[Anonymous Coward]

Please note that 866-946-4646 is the number for EmailOnDemand's sister company.

You might want to call them up and ask them about their business, and what it can do for you. You might want to suggest that they have a sales person visit you, so you can learn more about their business.

Beat the Telemarketers

[Cygnusx12]

I suggest, to my fellow ./ers that they check the laws in their local areas regarding telemarketing practices. I believe, nationally, you can request that you be removed, AND they send you written confirmation of the removal. Right there, you're costing a firm some 30 cents (perhaps less if they send out a bunch and CASS certify 'em at the same time) just to mail you.

In some cases, I believe they have to offer certain information up front by law! If they don't I believe there are also legal remedies that can be employed.(For instance, in Fl. there are significant fines placed on people who call folks on the states' do-not-solicit list.) Hit 'em in the wallet if you want to get their attention. Find out what laws are protecting you in your area. Get yourself on a do not call list for God's sake.

Perhaps, if enough time is taken out of their day, they'll practice better target marketing. You can protect yourself.. anyone who says "they won't take me off their list", may simply not be placing their energies in the correct channels.

No different from Bugzilla

[yerricde]

I'll explain this process in terms of the popular Bugzilla tracking system.

First a secretary or intern will be assigned to read the bug mail and sort out the legitimate problems from the lunatics writing in that your product just SUCKS.

The user enters the bug into the bug tracking system, and the system marks it UNCONFIRMED. If it is a legitimate bug report and it includes all the information necessary to reproduce it then it gets entered in the bug tracking/administration system. An email or memo will be sent to the manager of the division that handles testing.

And the bug becomes NEW.

The manager will assign the bug to a tester who will try to reproduce it. That is after he has worked on all the other items in his queue that have a higher priority.

Bugathon. Also note that this step may be less necessary if an experienced user attaches a reproducible test case to the bug report.

Once he has reproduced it he identifys what component causes the problem (or guesses). And add adds the item as a reproduced bug to the bug tracking system.

In the process, he adds keywords to the 'summary' and 'keywords' fields and more description such as a stack trace. He also "triages" the bug, marking it as high, medium, or low priority.

The manager in charge of the division that handles that system or component will get the notice and eventually get around (depending on priority) to assigning the bug to an engineer. The engineer will then start working on the bug

ASSIGNED.

but only after he has already completed what he was working on at the time, and cleared any higher priority items out of his queue as well.

Bugzilla sometimes calls its queues "plates" or "radars".

Once a patch gets r= and sr= (two types of approval from two different groups of code reviewers), somebody with write access to the CVS tree checks it in and marks the issue RESOLVED.

Sound more familiar? In other words, the primary difference between Microsoft's bug tracking system and Bugzilla is that Bugzilla work happens in a public forum as opposed to a private forum.

Goodwill builds the value of the brand

[yerricde]

Of course they don't care about Linux. Dell is a public company and companies only care about making money. Period. It's their obligation to their stockholders. You're just being naive if you think they would promote anything out of the goodness of their heart or because they think it's the "right thing" to do.

Money spent on good works comes back in the form of increased value of the corporate brand. This is the "goodwill" jeffphil speaks of in a previous comment. What PR exists better than giving customers what they want?

you're just plain silly if you want to get angry at Dell or any other company for that matter.

But if you get upset publicly and throw up a well-written anti-Dell web page that some widely read weblog like Kuro5hin or Slashdot picks up, you may hurt Dell's brand value and thus its bottom line.

l-wave's register quote

[Paul Komarek]

Anyone else notice that L-wave's submission takes a sentence directly from The Register's John Lettice? Look at http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/22928.html.

-Paul Komarek

God Bless Capitalism

[fm6]

Nobody else should have a chance unless they come up with something better. Thats capitalism, baby.

Is it really? Some would argue that Mister Bill's success has less to do with superior products and more to do with his ability to stamp out competition. Without a free market, how is capitalism different from socialism? Aside from ubiquitous advertising and inferior health care, that is.

But even if you're simplistic enough to argue that the laws of economics dictate that The Best Product Shall Prevail, that's not a "law" you are obligated to obey! Expressing your opinion is a fundamental right, even if you do it with your wallet. That's democracy, baby.

That doesn't work

[KMSelf]

The 800 (or more generally, toll-free) point will get your number regardless of your caller ID blocking status. This has to do with how the numbers are billed, and the billing data has to be available.

If you want to obscure your ID, call from a payphone, or use a third party's phone.

Re:That doesn't work

[Legion303]

That's what I said.

-Legion