Scalability, maintainability, and performance are derived from a factor much more important than the choice of language/platform, and that is the developers who are creating the site/application.
PHP, mod_perl and ASP projects can turn into unmaintainable morasses quite easily if the coders aren't careful, but Guess What? So can JSP and ASP.NET!!!
The most royal piece of sh*t intranet site I've ever seen was a JSP-based one done by a series of contractors. It was nice'n OO, alright, but this didn't help at all. There was absolutely no consistency in the 'design', they were failing to close recordsets, they weren't using stringbuffers appropriately, business rules in page-level code, etc. It wasn't unusual for users to have to wait 30+ seconds for responses. Thank Buddha that they weren't using EJBs! Happily, it was salvagable w/ many corrections and much refactoring.
This isn't a slam against JSP. JSP can be beautiful and offers great performance when done well. But so can PHP, classic ASP, ASP.NET and mod_perl! Well, maybe not classic ASP!;)
What really counts is the developers who are working on the project. The knowledge, experience and self-discipline of the developers will always count for far more than choice of platform.
If a company wants a fast and reliable website/web-app then the choice of using JSP, PHP, ASP.NET or mod_perl is pretty much a no-brainer... just go w/ whatever will most closely fit with the technologies you are already using and/or the tech that the company would most like to support/have supported and make damned sure that the developers are up to speed. Using the cheapest generic clods that you can find is a sure recipie for failure.
This is a fine example of journalism with a 'slant'.
I don't see the Big Deal, Forbes magazine. If these companies didn't want to make their source code open and public, they shouldn't have used GPL'd code.
Maybe Linksys & company should have used SCO instead of Linux for their devices?;)
I'm inclined to mostly disagree. While its nice that many developers can code for the web w/o understanding the intracacies of HTTP and TCP/IP, a grounding in such knowledge can only help, and a lack of this knowledge can lead to one looking like a bozo and/or code-monkey.
I am reminded of a situation from a few years ago when I was interviewing for a corporation that wanted to put together an ASP/COM/MTS-based intranet site. The interviewer was/is the project manager for this project, and he very clearly knew his VB/ASP stuff (for what that's worth). He grilled me extensively w/technical questions, and I thought that I was answering very well.
He then announced that we would proceed to the 'logic test' portion of the interview, in which he wanted me to give him an overview of how I would go about building a multi-lingual corporate FAQ site. I started giving him a very canonical response, which he seemed very happy with right up to the point where he asked me what I would do to handle the internationalization aspects of this fictional site, and how I would let a user determine what language they wanted to view the site in.
I thought about it for moment, and responded with something like I don't think that I'd have them choose - at least not by default - I'd just check the HTTP_LANGUAGE in the header.
At this point, the dude looked at me like I was smoking crack or had shouted an obscenity at him. What?!
"Yeah, I'd just check the header and have it default according to the language!"
At this point, we began a very heated debate over whether or not there was such a thing as a header in an HTTP response. I couldn't believe that this guy didn't know about stinkin' HTTP headers, and I started to get angry that he was reacting as though I was just making this up!
I left the interview feeling very perplexed and disgusted over how this guy could do ASP w/o knowing jack about HTTP. Using the power of sour-grapes rationalizing techniques, I concluded that the programmers at this corporation were all a bunch of Microsoft dinks, anyway.
Needless to say, I didn't get the position. The recruiter who had set up the interview told me that the interviewer told him that I did great on the technical part, but that there was something wrong with my logic.
While we comment upon the state of Artifical Intelligence, let us not forget the huge advances that have been made in Artificial Stupidity over the last thirty years!
If progress in this field of endeavor continues at the current rate, I predict that within the next thirty years we will have -
Machines that are perfectly capable of choosing political candidates based upon a single issue!
Computers that feel they have a legal right to returns on their investments!
Machines capable of preferring SUVs over compact cars!
Robots that are able to push a cart around a supermarket while 'Just Calling to Say Hi!' on a CELLPHONE!!!!
Buckminster Fuller would be proud!
Clever Subject Line Not Available
on
Brain Privacy
·
· Score: 1
The company I work for had a new salesperson. This guy had previously sold ERP systems, and now he was going to try to sell our companies development services.
This really happened - I was walking by his office and spotted him reading a copy of Java for Dummies. Yes -- a salesperson.
He explained that he felt he should know at least a little something about programming if he was going to try to sell our services as developers.
Un-freakin'-believable!
How many of you have spent endless hours explaining geek crap to sales/marketing/management nitwits who didn't have a clue and didn't care that they didn't have a clue?
Well... needless to say... he was canned a few months later by a clueless superior.
Doesn't the military already use a powder that helps clot blood much faster than normal? Similar to the cut stop powder that farmers and ranchers use for animals? Or is this a product that they used to use?
Are there any former/current medics than can shed some light on this?
It's interesting that the new clotting agent permeates a bandage, though.
The actual coding going into this effort is going to be worth about $10000 but our accounting says the client is going to have to pay $125000 for us to not lose money. That is being one hell of an overhead, folks. All that money to train managers, wasted.
Don't forget $$$ spent on marketing/sales weasels and MBAs!
Scene: A passage in the Enterprise. Several enlisted men are standing about waiting to go through a door marked "Restroom".
SM2 (SPACEMAN 2nd CLASS) PETERS: Yeah... 'n so I gotta spend the next 14 days cleaning the bridge.
SM1 CHUNG: Awww mannn! You got screwed BIG time!
SM2 PETERS: 'N that ain't the worst of it! So I'm standin' there waiting for PO Snuffy to turn on the freakin' generator, 'n I'm standing there holding the buffer, when alla the sudden Cap'n Archer walks in. He looks at PO Snuffy, points at me 'n goes [Mimics Captain Archer's voice] "Doesn't that spaceman have anything better to do, Snuffy?"
SM1 CHUNG: [Slapping head in disbelief] Awww no!
SM3 HERNANDEZ: Noooooooo!
SM2 PETERS: Yeah... So the PO hides the porncorder while Archer's lookin' at me, and he goes "Peters! Start buffing the deck!!!" and I go "YESSIR!" and I leave the hold, buffer and all.
CHUNG & HERNANDEZ: [Laughs]
SM2 PETERS: Yeah. It was pretty messed up. But anyway, the Vulcan-babe-F.O. was with the Captain!
SM3 HERNANDEZ: Oooooooooo!
SM1 CHUNG: Man-o-man! I'd like to show her what I had "augmented" on the last shore leave.
ALL: [Snickers]
SM2 PETERS: So anyway, it looked like the Captain and FO Hottie were getting ready to go to the decontamination room again...
Suddenly Chief Petty Officer Nixon rounds a corner.
CPO NIXON: Goddamit you shitheads! Get back to work! NOOOOWWWW!
1) Satan forgot to place transitional fossils in ground while he placing other fossils in the ground to confound us and lead us away from Jehovah.
2) Hmm... How do you explain the presence of the three-week-old bottle of milk in my refrigerator in a solar system that is supposed to be "billions" of years old?
3) The Demiurge was eating Pop Rocks and drinking Coke at the same time, in spite of God's warnings.
4) Angels or Aliens with vacuum cleaners? The fact that the solar system is moving through a galaxy with varying debris densities? Dang! That's a tired out argument, already!!! (See this for more info.
5) How do you reconcile the hoaxes and embarrassments of religion (i.e. Inquisitions, Jihads, Caste systems, Sabbatai Svi, Heaven's Gate, ad nausem) to the perfection (well... maybe not) of Mathematics?
All we need now is a way to repel sale and/or marketing people with speakers
Regarding Perl Criticisms...
on
Perl 5.8.0 Released
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
First off, let me state that choice of programming language isn't a reflection of the abilities of a developer.
I've seen dedicated, talented developers produce great apps with Perl, Python and even (gasp!) pre-.NET Visual Basic. On the other hand, I've seen careless, uninterested developers produce mounds of pure, unadulterated crap with C++.
The language used has little to do with the quality of thefinal result, and has a lot more to do with the person coding with it.
The language used for a product often isn't even up to the developer. Employers and clients mandate a language as often as not, sometimes for valid reasons, sometimes for moronic reasons ("The CEO plays golf with this dude who told him that using Java is gonna save big bucks").
Let's look at three factors we can use when comparing languages: Performance, Development Effort Required, and Maintainability.
C++ is a great language in experienced and knowing hands. When well-done its performance is good but it tends to be very effort-intensive.
Perl and other very high-level languages are less effort-intensive, but they have a corresponding performance trade-off.
Java and.NET languages are somewhere between the two, though they both seem closer to C++ on the scale than they are to VHL languages.
The maintainability of a language seems weakly related to individual languages. Most of the maintainabilty qualities of a product will spring from the all-too-often overlooked Planning, Design, and Discipline of the developers that worked on it!
I'll allow that Perl can really let you shoot yourself in the foot as far as maintainablity goes, but what languages aren't like this? Especially beloved C++?
While Perl is certainly a much more powerful and flexible language, most website management functions can be carried out much more simply and in less time in PHP since it was designed with website management and database connectivity in mind.
That's interesting... I'd use Perl precisely because it is a more general-purpose language than PHP. It is very funny how we developers rationalize these things.
As an example, I just started working with JavaMail a few days ago. Within 20 minutes I was reading emails and sending them. Talk about productive!.NET doesn't have anything that comes close.
Err... really? What about CDO? Or the System.Web.Mail class? Heck... a well-trained parrot can use VBScript and CDO to send emails.
Slashdot Mirror
So... why do some people in the Star Trek universe have bad jobs? Why would anyone pick that
Vocational aptitude testing, of course!
IPO?!?!
Here come the MBA's... There goes Google. :/
Scalability, maintainability, and performance are derived from a factor much more important than the choice of language/platform, and that is the developers who are creating the site/application.
PHP, mod_perl and ASP projects can turn into unmaintainable morasses quite easily if the coders aren't careful, but Guess What? So can JSP and ASP.NET!!!
The most royal piece of sh*t intranet site I've ever seen was a JSP-based one done by a series of contractors. It was nice'n OO, alright, but this didn't help at all. There was absolutely no consistency in the 'design', they were failing to close recordsets, they weren't using stringbuffers appropriately, business rules in page-level code, etc. It wasn't unusual for users to have to wait 30+ seconds for responses. Thank Buddha that they weren't using EJBs! Happily, it was salvagable w/ many corrections and much refactoring.
This isn't a slam against JSP. JSP can be beautiful and offers great performance when done well. But so can PHP, classic ASP, ASP.NET and mod_perl! Well, maybe not classic ASP! ;)
What really counts is the developers who are working on the project. The knowledge, experience and self-discipline of the developers will always count for far more than choice of platform.
If a company wants a fast and reliable website/web-app then the choice of using JSP, PHP, ASP.NET or mod_perl is pretty much a no-brainer... just go w/ whatever will most closely fit with the technologies you are already using and/or the tech that the company would most like to support/have supported and make damned sure that the developers are up to speed. Using the cheapest generic clods that you can find is a sure recipie for failure.
This is a fine example of journalism with a 'slant'.
I don't see the Big Deal, Forbes magazine. If these companies didn't want to make their source code open and public, they shouldn't have used GPL'd code.
Maybe Linksys & company should have used SCO instead of Linux for their devices? ;)
I'm inclined to mostly disagree. While its nice that many developers can code for the web w/o understanding the intracacies of HTTP and TCP/IP, a grounding in such knowledge can only help, and a lack of this knowledge can lead to one looking like a bozo and/or code-monkey.
I am reminded of a situation from a few years ago when I was interviewing for a corporation that wanted to put together an ASP/COM/MTS-based intranet site. The interviewer was/is the project manager for this project, and he very clearly knew his VB/ASP stuff (for what that's worth). He grilled me extensively w/technical questions, and I thought that I was answering very well.
He then announced that we would proceed to the 'logic test' portion of the interview, in which he wanted me to give him an overview of how I would go about building a multi-lingual corporate FAQ site. I started giving him a very canonical response, which he seemed very happy with right up to the point where he asked me what I would do to handle the internationalization aspects of this fictional site, and how I would let a user determine what language they wanted to view the site in.
I thought about it for moment, and responded with something like I don't think that I'd have them choose - at least not by default - I'd just check the HTTP_LANGUAGE in the header.
At this point, the dude looked at me like I was smoking crack or had shouted an obscenity at him. What?!
"Yeah, I'd just check the header and have it default according to the language!"
At this point, we began a very heated debate over whether or not there was such a thing as a header in an HTTP response. I couldn't believe that this guy didn't know about stinkin' HTTP headers, and I started to get angry that he was reacting as though I was just making this up!
I left the interview feeling very perplexed and disgusted over how this guy could do ASP w/o knowing jack about HTTP. Using the power of sour-grapes rationalizing techniques, I concluded that the programmers at this corporation were all a bunch of Microsoft dinks, anyway.
Needless to say, I didn't get the position. The recruiter who had set up the interview told me that the interviewer told him that I did great on the technical part, but that there was something wrong with my logic.
While we comment upon the state of Artifical Intelligence, let us not forget the huge advances that have been made in Artificial Stupidity over the last thirty years!
If progress in this field of endeavor continues at the current rate, I predict that within the next thirty years we will have -
Buckminster Fuller would be proud!
The future ain't what it used to be - Yogi Berra
The company I work for had a new salesperson. This guy had previously sold ERP systems, and now he was going to try to sell our companies development services.
This really happened - I was walking by his office and spotted him reading a copy of Java for Dummies. Yes -- a salesperson.
He explained that he felt he should know at least a little something about programming if he was going to try to sell our services as developers.
Un-freakin'-believable!
How many of you have spent endless hours explaining geek crap to sales/marketing/management nitwits who didn't have a clue and didn't care that they didn't have a clue?
Well... needless to say... he was canned a few months later by a clueless superior.
Doesn't the military already use a powder that helps clot blood much faster than normal? Similar to the cut stop powder that farmers and ranchers use for animals? Or is this a product that they used to use?
Are there any former/current medics than can shed some light on this?
It's interesting that the new clotting agent permeates a bandage, though.
The actual coding going into this effort is going to be worth about $10000 but our accounting says the client is going to have to pay $125000 for us to not lose money. That is being one hell of an overhead, folks. All that money to train managers, wasted.
Don't forget $$$ spent on marketing/sales weasels and MBAs!
I doubt that 98% of what goes on in chat rooms is even communication, let alone a form of vernacular English.
Scene: A passage in the Enterprise. Several enlisted men are standing about waiting to go through a door marked "Restroom".
SM2 (SPACEMAN 2nd CLASS) PETERS: Yeah... 'n so I gotta spend the next 14 days cleaning the bridge.
SM1 CHUNG: Awww mannn! You got screwed BIG time!
SM2 PETERS: 'N that ain't the worst of it! So I'm standin' there waiting for PO Snuffy to turn on the freakin' generator, 'n I'm standing there holding the buffer, when alla the sudden Cap'n Archer walks in. He looks at PO Snuffy, points at me 'n goes [Mimics Captain Archer's voice] "Doesn't that spaceman have anything better to do, Snuffy?"
SM1 CHUNG: [Slapping head in disbelief] Awww no!
SM3 HERNANDEZ: Noooooooo!
SM2 PETERS: Yeah... So the PO hides the porncorder while Archer's lookin' at me, and he goes "Peters! Start buffing the deck!!!" and I go "YESSIR!" and I leave the hold, buffer and all.
CHUNG & HERNANDEZ: [Laughs]
SM2 PETERS: Yeah. It was pretty messed up. But anyway, the Vulcan-babe-F.O. was with the Captain!
SM3 HERNANDEZ: Oooooooooo!
SM1 CHUNG: Man-o-man! I'd like to show her what I had "augmented" on the last shore leave.
ALL: [Snickers]
SM2 PETERS: So anyway, it looked like the Captain and FO Hottie were getting ready to
go to the decontamination room again...
Suddenly Chief Petty Officer Nixon rounds a corner.
CPO NIXON: Goddamit you shitheads! Get back to work! NOOOOWWWW!
Even Hungarian Notation is a big improvement over having no naming conventions at all.
1) Satan forgot to place transitional fossils in ground while he placing other fossils in the ground to confound us and lead us away from Jehovah.
2) Hmm... How do you explain the presence of the three-week-old bottle of milk in my refrigerator in a solar system that is supposed to be "billions" of years old?
3) The Demiurge was eating Pop Rocks and drinking Coke at the same time, in spite of God's warnings.
4) Angels or Aliens with vacuum cleaners? The fact that the solar system is moving through a galaxy with varying debris densities? Dang! That's a tired out argument, already!!! (See this for more info.
5) How do you reconcile the hoaxes and embarrassments of religion (i.e. Inquisitions, Jihads, Caste systems, Sabbatai Svi, Heaven's Gate, ad nausem) to the perfection (well... maybe not) of Mathematics?
6) Huh?
All we need now is a way to repel sale and/or marketing people with speakers
First off, let me state that choice of programming language isn't a reflection of the abilities of a developer.
I've seen dedicated, talented developers produce great apps with Perl, Python and even (gasp!) pre-.NET Visual Basic. On the other hand, I've seen careless, uninterested developers produce mounds of pure, unadulterated crap with C++.
The language used has little to do with the quality of thefinal result, and has a lot more to do with the person coding with it.
The language used for a product often isn't even up to the developer. Employers and clients mandate a language as often as not, sometimes for valid reasons, sometimes for moronic reasons ("The CEO plays golf with this dude who told him that using Java is gonna save big bucks").
Let's look at three factors we can use when comparing languages: Performance, Development Effort Required, and Maintainability.
C++ is a great language in experienced and knowing hands. When well-done its performance is good but it tends to be very effort-intensive.
Perl and other very high-level languages are less effort-intensive, but they have a corresponding performance trade-off.
Java and .NET languages are somewhere between the two, though they both seem closer to C++ on the scale than they are to VHL languages.
The maintainability of a language seems weakly related to individual languages. Most of the maintainabilty qualities of a product will spring from the all-too-often overlooked Planning, Design, and Discipline of the developers that worked on it!
I'll allow that Perl can really let you shoot yourself in the foot as far as maintainablity goes, but what languages aren't like this? Especially beloved C++?
Sweet parody!
While Perl is certainly a much more powerful and flexible language, most website management functions can be carried out much more simply and in less time in PHP since it was designed with website management and database connectivity in mind.
That's interesting... I'd use Perl precisely because it is a more general-purpose language than PHP. It is very funny how we developers rationalize these things.
Which operating system do you feel is most suitable for automating the summoning/conjuring of demons?
I don't have the time for an intelligent comment on this...
One of our sales people promised that we'd have this project done for the end of June.
I don't seem to recall there being any "Save often, Reload when you are Killed" workaround during my time in the Army.
Nor were power-ups of any sort available, unless you count caffiene.
It was certainly real-time, though much of the real-time was spent waiting.
IMO, the most useful and frequently overlooked element in documenting code is:
Meaningful variable/function/method/class names!
So many developers are satisfied with instance names like the ubiquitous "temp" rather than more meaningful ones like "jobStagingList".
Well-chosen and expressive variable names go a long way towards making code self-documenting.
If the past twenty years have been any indicator, then they'll be faster, but with even more bloated, useless software.
But the games will be cooler.
As an example, I just started working with JavaMail a few days ago. Within 20 minutes I was reading emails and sending them. Talk about productive! .NET doesn't have anything that comes close.
Err... really? What about CDO? Or the System.Web.Mail class? Heck... a well-trained parrot can use VBScript and CDO to send emails.
Not a great example.
If you enjoy sci-fi shows, I would recommend Cowboy Bebop on Cartoon Network if you haven't tried it already.