Slashdot Mirror
E3: Epic, US Army Develop Games as Recruitment Tool
securitas writes "Reuters and AP tell us that Epic Games and the US Army have announced the America's Army series of games, jointly developed by the Department of Defense and Epic. The first two-part game in the five-year project includes an RPG called Soldier and a first-person shooter called Operations. The game will be free of charge and available for download in July or August, with 1.2 million CDs simultaneously released, attached to gaming magazines. Does this remind anyone else of the war-room scene from Toys or Ender's Game?" Future installments will include Sim Mess Duty, Sim Standing Guard in the Rain, Sim Blister, and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High.
and I also hope that Microsoft doesn't start complaining about how the Military is now in competition with their games. How is Microsoft supposed to make money on military games if the US Military is giving games away for free?
On a serious note, I'd only have a problem with this if it didn't show what military life was really like. For example, I hope their sims version shows you the excitement of cleaning bathrooms and that you can level up in rock painting. Both of these skills are extremely important to the US Military.
Speaking as a hardcore gamer myself, I could care less about who makes a game. I couldn't care less about how it's distributed. I couldn't care less about how it's "brainwashing people" or how it's "like Toys!". It all comes down to one thing: Is the game fun? From what Penny Arcade tells me, it is going to be fun. That's all I care about.
This is what separates the average geek crowd from the true gamers among us. The average geeks don't understand what it really means to be a hardcore gamer. All they care about is how many polys a model has, how good it looks, or how the breasts are modeled ("She kicks high"). Hell, I'm 23 and I'll be playing Mario, Zelda, and dozens of other "kiddie" games the day they're released, and I don't care.
This is why I hate mainstream media coverage of games. Leave it to the professionals, please.
I don't know. The battle room in that was pretty damned cool.
That, and I doubt that "down" is toward the enemy's gate in this one.
The GPL makes software more like your mom. Free and open to all.
At least in their games we won't have powerups popping up... or my favorite first person shooter gaffe - shooting people only to have them fall forward or straight down. Of course this could backfire as well, people might not want to join the Army after seeing that its not all that different from a real job.
It is also possible that they may run afoul of Congress, after all all that violence has got to be bad. Figure some Congressional Democrats will scream about it and the anti-2nd Amendment crowd will be there soon.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
See, I don't get this whole "Army of One" business. If I were to join the army, I wouldn't want to be fighting alone. I'm not delusional: I know I can't defeat enemies Rambo-style. No, I'd want to be part of a "Big-Ass Army of Many Ass-Kicking Soldiers, Tanks, and Other Military Equipent". Apparently I have to sign up with some other country to get this.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
Future installments will include Sim Mess Duty, Sim Standing Guard in the Rain, Sim Blister, and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High.
Don't forget the final game in the series: "Risking Their Lives to Protect Your Right to Make Stupid Jokes."
This is a news site, correct? And on most news sites isn't editorial content explicitly labeled as opinion or commentary?
I realize that michael may think that all slashdotters agree with his bias, whatever it may be, but I assure you there are many who do not.
In other words, michael, keep your opinions to yourself if you want to pass this off as a news site!
so basicly this says: uncle sam wants PK's
Sim-Go-out-to-sea-for-six-months-and-not-get-lai d.
orSim-Jungle-Rot
orSim-Beaurocratic-Crap(??)
orSim-I've-got-some-vicious-form-of-Gonarhea-from- mo mma-san.
Ohhh, your a naughty little birdy...
this is U.S. taxpayers money where's the source ?
......
(my yank mate is always on about how U.S. guv gives stuff away that has been payed by the tax payers)
plus is there a linux version ?
PS2 ?
Xbox ?
playstation?
if they gave the source away
regards
john 'brit so what do I know' jones
Given this situation, I suspect these games would primarily be based on military strategy with an emphasis on non-violent missions.
my blog
This is great! Another fan of Ender's Game. I find them so rare and scattered. I try to convice Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow are the best books ever. But many people just stare at me blankly a few have even smacked me. Sad.
> SELECT * FROM brain_cells WHERE synaptic_rate > 0
0 row returned
Accidently shooting your allies in "Operations" will gain you extra points. (The versions of the game in non-US NATO countries will not have this feature).
"What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death."
How could such a game be terribly different from another other first person shooter, especially those that were specifically designed to simulate an army experience (minus the bathroom duty, etc.). I'm guessing the sole difference is that you'd see army advertisments everywhere, and the music would be bad. And I'm sure the won't have boot camp instructors yelling their heads off, etc., but rather the classic "shaking-jaw-scrolling-text-so-slow-can't-speed-it -up-but-can-skip-it-with-a-keypress" mission briefs...
"Hey, did you know that these violent games that you love to shoot people in are based on real life? In the next level, there are no extra lives - join the Army!"
Future installments will include Sim Mess Duty, Sim Standing Guard in the Rain, Sim Blister, and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High.
I think it's very classy of you to make jokes about people who have died for your freedom. Sure, it sucks that the US get stuck policing the world, but as we've been shown, it's not going to do it on its own, and it doesn't look like anyone else is jumping up to do the job. Your attitude is disgusting.
Is your browser retarded?
Why play a sim when you can go down to your local recruiting office and sign up to take part in the real thing?
Derelict
It makes me wonder whether there are already army recruiters out there on Everquest looking for tech savvy youth. You can certainly tell who is a good soldier and who is not after a serious dragon raid! In fact some of the the guild leaders on Everquest remind me of the stereotype army sergeant barking out orders to keep the troops in line. Maybe this is where they go the idea from.
I don't get it. Why put so much time and effort into developing an advert. Is it really going to attract more people into the army? Are they really going to use for training? Surely a poster campain and some paintball would do the trick.
What's the catch? Why do the army want this softwear installed on our machines?
I am a Karma Library.
Over on kuro5hin.
I know many people who are frustrated with these games where you have to take hundreds of hits before you are taken down. [The rare exception is Delta Force.] In real life, a single well placed bullet will end a soldier.
It is very hard to find realistic games like this and I suspect the 'realistic fun' of it will be a joy for people who are tired of not being killed by a rocket to the chest.
Sim Tailhook scandal....
Sim Don't ask don't tell...
Sim $400 toliet seat/$300 hammer...
Sim Psych-ops...
Web URL isn't responding - did we just Slashdot the US Army??? Kewl - never mind carbombs, just point Slashdot at any military website and throw it into uttter chaos!!!
hrmm, i can picture the comercial now "Amazing explosive Apache action!".. followed by a stinger blowing up your helicopter. makes me want to run out and get shot, err be in the army..
Later,
Phil
Distributed denial of service attack. Much better than a single point to point.
The GPL makes software more like your mom. Free and open to all.
"Do you want to play a game"? asks a classified war computer to Matthew Broedrick in the 19809s classic "War Games". Matt thinks hes hacked into a nifty new game site, when really it is an important defence computer. Things dont change much in 20 years.
It'll be interesting to see what the developers decide to use as a means to encourage people to join the military:
I'm not sure the realistic approach would be an effective recruitment tool. I don't remember people lining up to enlist after watching Saving Private Ryan: "Come! Join us! You too can wobble in shock holding your own severed leg."
Gee, I hope if the Navy does something like this, there will be SimTailHook.... now that's one I'd like to play!
Doesn't anyone remember the movie:The Last Starfighter?
The aliens used video games on earth to train and recruit pilots for the war they were in.
The Army will be watching to see who plays well and be giving them a visit.
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0087597
It is based on the Unreal engine, and it is awesome. nothing like your regular FPS.. it has the reality dial turned way up... if you get hit once you are dead, or bleeding to death no mega heath, no railgun's, no ammo everywhere, just your handy GI issued weapons. From the demo I watched and played, FPS fans will hate it. and several of the "kids" though it sucked, it requires thinking, skill, and for the player to be clever... very unlike FPS games where most of the players just run around hopping firing at everything that moves... camping is a requirement and only the stupid players do anything other than camping (stupid players=dead players)
so basically, if you're the type of FPS player that gets' wildly mad at campers, you will hate it.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Has anyone else noticed any problems connecting to alot of .GOV or .MIL sites? When I try to connect they ping me then wont let me in. Go figure, not only with these bloody army game sites, but with other sites like ins.gov. I find it mildly annoying and am really just wondering if I'm the only person that they ping. ;)
Its as if they dont want me to play their games. Guess they know I'm too good for them or something. Lol.
-
--Alron
Yes, I am replying to a troll, but I feel the need to.
I only hope this comment was done in sarcasm, but this elitist attitude I so often see from people who served in the military that bothers me. You tell me that I don't understand the meaning of the military or service, yet every day I drive by dozens of memorials to those who have died in the past, and am reminded of their sacrifice. I am thankful that there were people like them to protect our nation.
Then I drive by lots of real tall buildings, and I am reminding of the what they were fighting to protect. Which is more important, the fight, or that which is being protected? I am grateful forpeople serve our military; my grandfather was in Korea, and my father served during the Vietnam Era.
Still, that which is protected bears greater significance than the protectors. Our freedoms, liberties, our constitution, all are much more important than the soldier that died in an attempt to preserve them.
The fight to preserve our liberties is no longer being fought on foreign battlefields, but in our legal system. I think we had a better chance when it had to do with who lasted the longest out there than we do putting faith in judges, juries, and politicians.
But please, do not ever tell me I don't understand the military, or have no right to make light of it. If it really was protecting my rights, then I can say anything I want to about them, now can't I? =]
What?
Change it all around to anti-us propaganda... haha.
I don't seem to recall there being any "Save often, Reload when you are Killed" workaround during my time in the Army.
Nor were power-ups of any sort available, unless you count caffiene.
It was certainly real-time, though much of the real-time was spent waiting.
The only thing that we learn from history is that nobody learns anything from history.
Didnt the good guys use something similar in the last starfighter? Will a recruiting officer show up at my house if I get a certain high score? :)
Sim KP, Sim Boot Camp, Sim Freeze-Your-Ass-Off-While-Marching, etc...
God Bless our sons and daughters in harm's way!...we are from the government - we are here to help...
Objectives:
* Depart from airbase and patrol no-fly zone.
* Follow waypoints to Canadian "training" area.
* Drop bombs
* Shit, I mean DON'T DROP BOMBS!
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Sim Friendly Fire
Sim Don't Ask Don't Tell
or everybody's cult favorite...
Sim Seargent Pile
Future installments will include Sim Mess Duty, Sim Standing Guard in the Rain, Sim Blister, and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High.
Nice way to belittle the work and sacrifices that I and millions of other people throughout the world have given in protecting YOUR rights. Yes, guard and mess duty sucks, but it's a part of military life. So does PT, first call at zero-dark-thirty, inspections, shining boots, cleaning weapons, endless makework, etc.. but it's all a necessary part of military life in order to keep discipline.
As for "Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High", that's an issue with the leadership, not the men and women who go when given the order. It's easy to criticize and ridicule from the safety of one's Aeron office chair. It's another thing entirely to raise your hand and swear to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
Unlike similar combat games, the primary goal of "America's Army" is not killing a massive number of enemies, but instead completing tasks and setting career goals.
"Will there be guys tearing off arms and using them for clubs? No. Because the Army would never do that."
They just lost their target audience - if I can't use somebody's arm as a club, I ain't interested. Career goals? Fsck that.
All the information they requested sounds like they are trying to increase their database of new recruit possibilities...
:)
You liked the game.. how would you like to kill real people, son?
Be all you can be, until dinner-time
If you could sum it up in a nutshell, maybe you should be writing O'Reily books. --- Domasi 2001
If they're really bringing in video game stuff, I wanna join the Army and use them there "Stinky Hands" from Dakitana or that crossbow that shoots TNT-loaded chickens from Redneck Rampage. Never mind Crudsader, here comes a divisions of camoulaged soldiers waving Stinky Hands and chickens over the horizon.....
...Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High.
Comments like this is just plain stupid...Plus, I don't believe it's going to happen. The current administration is using "other means necessary" to stop any type of terrorist activity there. I don't think terrorism has a statute of limitations.
I wonder how much is already going on that we don't know about, and I wonder how that can affect approval ratings? Of course, the only approval rating I'm concerned about is mine.
"Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
Does this remind anyone else of the war-room scene from Toys or Ender's Game?"
More so of "The Last Starfighter". Given the increasing prevalence of online capabilities in games machines and in-box data storage (Microsoft reckon that they have enough space on the internal HDD of the X-Box to store every detail of every game a gamer will play in the entire life of the machine) how long before a really good high score results in a vist from the feds?
Stephen
"Don't write down to your readers, the only people less intelligent than you can't read" - Sign on Newspaper Office Wall
what /. has against military service? In many countries the average /. reader's military service is *mandatory*. Also, as a US citizen myself,I volunteered and served in the U.S. Navy and cannot complain one bit about the experience. Was it harder than sitting on my ass playing Mortal Kombat(which was new at the time >:)? Yes it was. Did it help me pay for college and make me a better person? You bet your ass it did. Maybe I don't come from as privileged a background as the rest if you but military service helped me out substantially. I guess it is just fashionable to spend your late teens and twenties doing drugs and being a bored, sullen, and directionless loser nowadays.
Just what the fuck did she expect if she wanted to hang out with a bunch of drunk twentysomething pilots?
And why did she keep going back for more and more?
Now when my parents complain about me playing video games I can truthfully say that it's the army's fault.
Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High
No president has ever been reelected to office following a war.
Sick little puppy, aren't you?
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Get off your high horse. The comment makes a valid point that life in the army involves lots of routine activity such as training, not just shooting people. Plus, it's a joke. Anyway, if you read the story you'd see that the joke is closer to the reality of what these games are likely to be anyway, so lighten up and let's have less of the knee-jerk offence taking.
1) Saddam Husain has used weapons of mass destruction( WMDs) such as nerve gas against Iraqi kurdish civilians.
2) He ejected U.N. inspectors who were making sure he complied with the peace terms stating he wouldn't continue to develop WMDs including the Iraqi nuclear program.
3) He has launched strikes on civilian populations in Israel during the Gulf War even though Israel was not part of the military coalition. He did this in the hopes invoking an Israeli response which would gain him the support of other Arab nations.
Now because you obviously didn't know this or understand the implications I will state it slowly:
If allowed to develope a nuke, he's likely to use it against a civilian target. Possibly in a pre-emptive strike.
Where is it going to happen? Who knows. Will it be trucked in or on top of a missle? Not sure. A strike against him is necessary to make sure that this doesn't happen.
Sidenote: Informative opposing opinions != Troll, a point often lost on the moderators of this "news source".
Thick little puppy, aren't *you* ?
1) Running around and around for hours.
2) Getting bored playing cards.
3) Spending hours cleaning your kit.
4) Getting shouted at and humiliated by someone you hate.
5) Sitting on your bunk, waiting.
6) Cleaning your kit again.
7) Going in to town on Saturday night and getting completely drunk and throwing up
8) Letching at women and the desperate machismo of oversexed young men who don't know how to communicate with the opposite sex.
9) Institionalized racism and sexism.
10) Cleaning your kit again.
12) Unquestioningly following dumb orders.
13) Being a guiniepig for experimental drugs with horrible side effects.Or is it going to be all fast action shooting and strategic planning, just like real life in the army?
It was only a matter of time before this happenned. The US military has been using the entertainment industry for so long, now that games are bigger than movies, they have to follow suit. That's where the kids are, and they need fresh meat to grind.
-- Home is where you eat your heart out.
You seem to misunderstand the point of the game. Think about how many army commercials you have seen. The army is starting to get smart as to what my generation is looking for in the military. They are playing music we listen to in the commercials. They are creating products directly to us. As a marketing strategy, this is briiliant. Th best way to get people interested in your company/product is to cater to the subscriber/consumer
all my
The America's Army videogame suite, Operations and Soldiers, were built completely by the MOVES Institute, not by Epic Games. We licensed the Epic Games engine for Operations. For more information on the games and imagery from E3, see http://movesinstitute.org
Michael Zyda
This was according to the article in Stars and Strips newspaper.
They state, keeping a straigth face, that when they recruite 300 youngsters with this campaign it will be succesfull.
:-)
Small calculation: 7.5 million $ for a result of 300: that's 25.000 $ a head !!
They should hire me as a HR consultant: i would do it like the in the old times, cheap and efficient: pick up drunks in bars and make them sign in exchange for not getting kicked to death...
----
--
[insert witty one-liner here for your own pleasure]
This idea to use games to convince impressionable kids to join the army is a good one.
Looking around, all the people of my generation have one of a few careers:
* Alien-attacker, particularly where you have three bases to hide behind
* Ever-hungry giant mouth eating never-ending supply of pellets
* Race car driver on tracks with a lot of popup
* Professional princess rescuer, particularly when you can jump on a lot of mushrooms
* Cubical worker
That last one is the least suprising. I remember as a kid, me and my friends would never stop playing "Cubical Worker!" It was the most popular game in America at the time, which is why everyone seems to have grown up to do it for a living.
> The Army expects by September to spent about $7.5 million on the program
Whew! I'm glad we're spending $7.5 million on this project. With this new Republican leadership manning the purse strings, we've got so much money, I was worried there was no way we'd be able to spend it all. This is a great example of how to get rid of it.
What was that? A $100 billion dollar deficit ?
Wait... which party was for big government and likes to waste money?
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
1. We've seen the movie, this is slashdot.
2. Your connection between this 1980's movie and a free video game as recruitment tools is tritely contrived and obtuse in general.
3. While I am insulting you, you should take this as an opportunity to examine why people might consider you're trite. (Look it up if you need to, even if you *think* you know the definition).
4. The reason I am insulting you is so I can hone in on my harse criticism skills which is contingent on my abilities to identify fallicies and thier roots and to expose the fallicy for the crap thinking it is... The fact I decided to berate you shows how great of a quipper I am! I've obviously ignored all the rules which suggest brevity and gone for the neverending Monty Pythoneque type verbal trashing followed by a bunch of silly-talk.
5. Really, I am as stoic/objective as prior rational suggests
Have a Great Day!!!
I wish I was a troll
First, I originally heard that the only way Epic is tied to this game is by selling the Unreal Engine to the US Military.
Second, the US Army needs to take a lesson from my father, when he taught me this when I was 16. When you budget your money, you get out a piece of paper and make two columns. Mark the first "NEEDS", the other "WANTS."
Where do you think the game will go?
Also, how can they dare compete in an industry where tried-by-fire veteran game designers can fail miserably (ie - Diakatana)??
Mark this one down as the year's dumbest use of money... (Don't get me wrong, I'm a big gamer, I just think the US Military could use the money elsewhere).
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
"Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High"
Ah, no. That should be:
"Sim Invading Iraq So The Psychopath Doesn't Eventually Build Nuclear Weapons"
dork.
How about Sim Murder-by-any-other-name-is-still-fucking-murder?
That's right, starving those children and blowing up that hospital sure showed the madman in the palace, didn't it?
So hopefully extra bonus points to killing allies. And the army can release enemy skins, depending on who they're bombing at the moment. wicked. Free download of the 'afganistan' map. Then you could get lovely cut scenes at the end of each level; 'Well done solider! You've helped democracy!'. Scumbag terrorist killed: 400 Democracy points gained: 23 Allies killed: 103 etc, etc. Alot of clever countries have used cartoons / games for propagada sucessfully before. Kudos America.
Having a clue-free day, are we?
668: Neighbour of the Beast
*SMACK*
*SMACK*
And for good measure,
*SMACK*
Seemed pretty realistic, no railguns, megahealth, etc... had to work with your teammates to get the mission accomplished...
Did you happen to notice on the cd order page that at the bottom it says they will only send it if your between the ages of 13 and 34? Once you sign up you will never get rid of the army following you. Something to think about. *cough*bigbrother*cough*.
(PS All the 80's movies references seem pretty accurate. I think it's very much like The Last Starfighter.)
-Eric
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
-Albert Einstein
...here's an American thanking you for your hard work on my behalf. Cheers (and here's to a world where everyone pulls his own weight and doesn't bitch about it).
Here is the new Sim being designed by the Navy to simulate Sub duty:
HOW TO SIMULATE SUBMARINE LIFE AT HOME
Surround yourself with a few people you don't like. Close all windows and doors tightly, close curtains. Seal any openings to the outside world with a proper vault. Unplug all radios and TV sets to cut yourself off completely from news, football games, Saturday Night Live, the Muppet Show, etc.
Hourly monitor all operating home appliances, if not in use, log as secured. If using the bathroom, do not flush toilet for first two days to simulate smell of blowing sanitaries and venting inboard. Then flush daily.
Wear only approved FBM coveralls, or proper Navy uniforms. No hats, special T-shirts, etc. Cut your hair once a week ensuring that you make it look like hell. Work 18-hour day intervals to ensure your body really gets confused. Listen to the same cassette over and over until you can't stand it anymore, and then put in one that you can't even listen to without acute nausea setting in. Set your alarm to go off just as you fall asleep, with alarm set at loud, or buy a special alarm clock with various settings, (i.e., "Man Battle Stations, Fire, Flooding in the Basement").
Prepare food with a blindfold on to simulate what real submarine cooks do. Then take the blindfold off and try to get your dog to eat it. Then break out a can of tuna and/or peanut butter.
Cut your bed in half, and enclose all but one side using the dimensions of a small casket as a reference. When not in bed, make up blankets properly so no one will see or care.
Periodically, for want of excitement, open main power breaker and run around yelling, "Reactor Scram", until you are sweating profusely, then restore power. Buy yourself a snorkel and mask, and again, periodically, just for want of nothing else to do, put it on and pretend you're in a smoke filled room with no way out. For added variety, hook up the garden hose and pressurize it.
To enable yourself to handle anything, constantly study wiring diagrams and operating instructions for various home appliances (stove, refrigerator, can opener). For no reason at all, at specified intervals (monthly, weekly, etc.) tear one item apart, just in case it was going to break down.
Paint everything around you gray (Navy FSN gray, no substitutes) or off-white. To be sure you are living in a clean and happy environment, every Friday, set alarm on loud for a short but hated drill sound, then get up and manned with only a bucket and sponge and greeny, clean one area over and over, even if it was already spotless. Then make out a discrepancy list.
Once a day, after normal programming hours, plug in TV and watch one movie being careful that it is (a) at least five years old, (b) made long enough prior to showing to be sure that you've seen it at least once before, or (c) be so bad you have to install a seatbelt in your chair to keep you there until it is over.
Since no doctor will be available, stockpile Band-Aids, aspirin, and Actifed as these are proven cure-alls. Practice if necessary on your dog (surgery, dentistry, or death).
When commencing this test simulation, lock your family, friends, and anything that means anything to you outside. Tests will run for at least two months with no end in sight.
I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people. - Jack Handey
1997, anyone?
Not Space Marine Doom
It's frightening that people think this is funny. Not only are you pissing all over the dead Canadians' graves, but you're also taking a high moral ground that I doubt you can defend. When's the last time you did anything perfectly? Poster and mods: Get some perspective.
Sorry but that "sim invading iraq" was just so damn funny i almost fell outta my chair.
Hey, if I wanted CNN i would go to CNN. I say gimme a bunch of smart ass anti establishment jokes any day.
That new Unreal engine is just amazing, I can't wait to see all the modded games people make with it.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Not when it's OUR brand of violence!
(which is now considered ART, BTW)
I wonder how many parents will complain about these games...
I mean killing drug dealers is ok by parents,
and killing terrorists is even better.
But if you were to say, kill a cop,
or fly a plane near a building...that's a whole different story!
Something tells me parents will not "Boo!" when these games start coming free
in cereal boxes and their kids start collecting military trading cards and wearing camo to school...
I wonder what the rating will be...
"Mom? When do you think I can get some trigger time with some real warm bodies?
Not 'till you're 18, son!"
"Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them."
"Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High"
/.
It is sickening shit like this that needs to be put to an end. You have the right to make quips like this because soliders in the field stand guard over your freedom and right to do so.
Iraq was about Oil anyway, another thing you need to keep the lights on your computer puming away on your fav liberal PC porn and
I swear, there needs to be a genetic scan pre-natal style that discloses and eliminates idiots, liberals, and radical religious beliefs. The world is all gaffed up thanks to you...
Spare us the I want it for free shit. And why in gods name would they spend extra tax dollars to make it run under shitty linux when only 1% of computer users even use this tripe at home.
It all comes down to one thing: Is the game fun?
I'm totally in agreement with what a "true hard-core gamer" enjoys. Things like NES emulators were made for the "true hardcore gamer," cause you can still have a fun game in just 8-bit graphics!
But, as I've written before, "realism" has to be balanced with "fun." Having complete realism usually takes away from the fun. This is why I think the game will fail...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High
How about Sim Lob Missiles at Aspirin Factories to Side Step Scandals? Or Sim Do Nothing And Let The Terrorist Win? Or Sim Babble and Whine About Things I Cannot Possibly Understand Due To My Years of Taking Drugs.
I cannot believe in today's world there are people who don't understand that there are evil people out who want to kill all freedom loving people. You are truly a disgrace.
We gave peace a chance and it didn't work. Now it's time to give war a chance.
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you!
I think the better statement is "Not Invading Iraq to Keep Cheap Oil."
/. PT Crusier.
Iraq has a murderous dictator in charge who has waged genocide against his own people and is developing weapons of mass destruction. If we really were a country that believed in freedom and good will towards men, we would have bombed the shit out of Iraq years ago instead of letting millions die at the hands of Sadam.
Since people tend to believe in hollywood so much, just look back to Spider-man and the message that everyone was touting as being so grand, "Great power comes with great responsibility." We sure as hell have the power but we're just sitting around on our lazy asses so that we only have to pay $1.25 a galloon to drive the
int func(int a);
func((b += 3, b));
Try Ghost Recon or the UT Mod Infiltration. Much more accurate (and complicated) with real world physics and ballistics, as well as damage.
AmericasArmy and GoArmy.com will have links to the download. BUT NOT CURRENTLY! The game is still in beta so don't even bother. We've been testing it for months as I work for the web group who does goarmy.com The game is truly awesome.
Heil Sig! -Rob
Geeze. You had it easy. When I was in the Army we got up at zero-dark-hundred.
Best Slashdot Co
Blah blah blah games blah blah turn the youth of America into violent hoolums blah blah blah parental restrictions blah blah blah Army blah blah ...
Army?? Blah blah blah?!? Uncle Sam??
Blah blah blah games GOOD! blah blah patriotic blah blah blah defeat evil blah blah blah WTC Guliani Let's Roll FDNY et al....
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Speaking as one of the millions who has served and stood on that wall so you could post useless shit like that, I didn't find it funny in the least.
From a political standpoint, it wasn't even close to accurate either, but hey, that's what you get when you surf porn and smoke dope all day while punching the liberal ticket.
You swear an allegiance to this country and it's principals, to the leadership and their right to order you into harms way.
Don't be little the millions serving and whom have served so you could post innacurate and decidely liberal crap like this.
Slunk on back to your moms basement and hack away some more at your linux box while posting on like minded liberal PC message boards and leave the soldiering and real world realities of international poltics to those far more qualified than your sorry ass.
...by the Star Leage to defend against Xur and the Kodan armada....
A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.
SIM-Michael-the-slashdot-editor-is-a-complete-tree -hugging-jackass
Too much pot this morning, right? Forgot to pack your liberal presskit and pamphlets before going into work and are pissed in general that the president we have doesn't hump the interns, smoke dope, make bumb deals in the Middle East that leads to open warfare, runs money laundering scams, has whores trucked in by government and tax paid staff and/or law officals, cover's up his wifes paid murders, and in general is a communist puke who didn't deserve the title, let alone the office.
Go home, get out your illicit handgun, put it in your mouth, pull trigger, and remove your misery from our lives... please.
Maybe if I win they'll give me my own B-2 so I can land it at my local airport to pick up my girlfriend...
As in "Full Metal Jacket"
"The Marine Corps does not want robots. The Marine Corps wants killers. The Marine Corps wants to build indestructible men, men without fear."
Still true today. Improvise, adapt and overcome. Hard for robots to do that. Hey, there must be a reason that clones are better soldiers than droids...
Semper fi.
just to clear things up... the new Unreal and UTII are not completed yet.
I just finished reading _Johnny Got His Gun_ again this weekend. I can't say it better than Dalton Trumbo, but "freedom" is a pretty nebulous concept, and I'm damn sure I'd rather be alive before anything else.
Frankly, I think that anyone who really wants to start a war has an awful lot of justifying to do, and the last several wars I've been around to see just haven't done it for me. I mean, the old white men who stay safe at home during all these messy little conflicts don't really seem to care about all those people's lives they're callously throwing away, do they? Is life actually worth words we can't actually precisely define?
So take your nebulous ideals and enjoy them for yourself, but don't get annoyed with me/us because we're opposed to the very *idea* of war, which seems to me to be a stupid and useless way to try to solve problems. (Hey, the last war didn't work; let's try it *again*!) Any other human endeavour that proceeded that way would have died out millennia ago.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting substantially different results.
"Better Red Than Dead" Interrobang
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
Believe me... At some point in time, you'll outgrow the games.
:*)
Then you can do First Person Shooters LIVE! d;-)
Now THAT's friggin cool. In the US you don't even have to join the army!
I hear the polygon count is absolutely amazing... The gore looks %#&%"! authentic.
I think the idea is that they are trying to get away from the whole 'cannon fodder' stereotype -- where any individual soldier is merely one more target in a wall of human targets, and nothing more.
<REGGAE>
Go to your brother
Kill him with your gun
Leave him lying in his uniform
Dying in the sun....
</REGGAE>
Did you ever play Cannon Fodder, or Cannon Fodder 2? Great games by Sensible Software, also authors of the best football (soccer) game ever. I can't recommend these games highly enough.
deus does not exist but if he does
Kuro5hin also has a discussion about this.
Buy a Nintendo DS Lite
I see you did your time in the boats! Too funny! Very true!
yvan eht Nioj!
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
Didn't we already give terrorists the keys to the castle with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000? Now we're showing them how to drive our tanks and humvees, and perform tactical raids?
Sim - We are so liberal and uninvolved although we are supposedly world military and financial leaders we sat back and did nothing while a madman killed his own people with chemical weapons and invaded all the surround countries and eventually detonated nukes in our own capital because he could thanks to us not doing a damned thing.
See, it's your fault (and the people like you) that it ends up with us bombing targets in a remote fashion and ending up with civvy casualties while we embargo basics to force the people to act since we can't go in ourselves and do it right. We can't go in and do the job, nor even assasinate that evil bastard, because it is not PC and liberals would be up in arms over it, smoking pot and chanting on the whitehouse lawn while inventing aids and presidents like Bill Clinton who guts the military and ensures that folks like me serving end up having to take foodstamps to get buy if I have a family.
Sim My Lai Massacre?
Sim Bomb Cambodia Back To The Stone Age?
Sim Patriotic Bullshit?
I suspect we're all going to get to watch "Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High", whether we want to or not.
As for true realism leading to failing games, I'm not sure that I agree. I'm playing Medal of Honor: Allied Assault online quite a bit, and I exclusively play Objective matches where if you did, you're dead until the next round starts. In that respect, I really enjoy the realism, because it gives death a meaning. If you want to play the game for a while, don't charge in immediately. Set up traps, go in groups, etc. Anything to keep yourself alive.
As for the Army's game, I'll wait until I see a demo of it. If it's well done, and if it really simulates reality, then I'll at least give it a try. Hell, it's free, why *wouldn't* you try it?
About 5 years ago there was a mod from the Marine Corps for Doom. Check out the story on Wired. I play it and it was actually more interesting than the original Doom. Me, I'm still waiting for Unreal Doom Quake, with Asia Carrera Skins.......
Future installments will include Sim Mess Duty, Sim Standing Guard in the Rain, Sim Blister, and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High. You're really funny. Very clever. Asshole.
Jeebus, you sound like Hitler. I think you need to see life from His sandals.
It's just like the movie Toys, except without L.L. Cool J and the andriod sister.
To all those complaining about the realism vs. fun of the game, there are some of us that do prefer games such as Operation Flashpoint, Rainbow Six, Rogue Spear and others that are basically "get shot or you're dead", ie, Realism is WHY we think they're fun.
These games almost always require more thinking, tactics, better reflexes and good communication as opposed to Quake et. al. And you still get to blast the crap outta something sooner or later.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
You can't be serious. We have an insane tyrant willing to GAS HIS OWN PEOPLE and you are suggesting that Bush wants to take care of this problem just to keep approval ratings high? Are you insane? I suppose you are like much of Europe in the late 1930's. "If we ignore Hitler, he'll just keep to himself of go away." Well, if we continue to ignore Saddam, more Americans, Brits, Jews, and others will die. But I suppose you have a point, let's let Iraq develop some bio-chemical or nuclear weapons, give them to terrorists and watch a few more thousand innocent people die. That way Bush's approval rating will certainly be high when he kicks Saddams ass.
F******* LOUDER! I CAN'T HEAR YOU! --Ozzy Osbourne
and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High
Please keep your snide unpatriotic comments to yourself when posting a story. Some of us have pride in our country and military. This remark belongs in a comment, not a posted story.
I don't know why so many are upset with Michael's editorial comments. Everyone knows he's an idiot, and I don't let idiots get me all fired up.
I just think its amusing that people confuse the military with american foreign policy. Not everyone in the military agrees with the decisions the US makes (invading iraq... yada yada yada), or understands why it can be a bad idea. However, it works the opposite way as well. A lot of people think that "just because the US wants to invade iraq (or whatever; pick your global scheme) it must be ok, so lets support the military for this? I can't wait until the day when the american citizens start to think for themselves , and make up your own minds about war, and understand why its not such a good idea. Lets not work towards creating new terrorists? more people that hate us because we killed their father/mother? it isn't the answer. And just because you are or were in the military doesn't mean that you should blindly agree with the decisions of our government... You joined the military for a reason (most likely free college money) and now you are swimming in unexpected patriotism, and it makes you feel good about yourself. Get over the hype, think for yourself... We all know why the military wants a game like this; I though propaganda was illegal?
I agree with you insofar as most gamers probably don't want "true realism", however everybody has thier own definition of fun.
Take the Sims for example: Pointless to many, but the slow moving, not so mentally taxing, simulation is fun for millions of people. Nobody thought this was what the gaming community wanted, in part they were right. The traditional gaming community didn't want it, the people who had reasons to hate other games DID want a doll house game.
This seems to be on the other end of the Spectrum, for people who want a REAL challenge to see if they can survive the Army's simulation of REAL battle. Y
You're not interested to see how well you would par, or how quickly you can become the master of simulated modern warfare?
Sure, it goes against balancing ease with reality, but some people find overcoming the challenge to be fun.
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
Lets see, we have numerous and taxing peacekeeping missions underway all the time, thanks to the US army and other services. We have hostage rescue all the time. We have reserves and guardsman throwing sandbags and keeping order after disaster. We have Panama, Korea, WWII, WWI, etal.
What is your point?
written in ADA?
Sorry, real as it gets?
Get Real. Someone hits you in the arm or leg with a AK47 M16 or any other weapon and you will be damn lucky to be firing back, let alone mobile.
CS is as real as pac man is. The Army has the right track, too many stupid people playing CS think its a close representation of real combat. Nothing could be further from the truth.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Fuck you.
I know many people who are frustrated with these games where you have to take hundreds of hits before you are taken down. [The rare exception is Delta Force.] In real life, a single well placed bullet will end a soldier.
I for one am not against not dying when I'm hit in the chest with a rocket, as long as the same goes for my opponent. It's all about game balance.
However, I know many people who are also frustrated with games where you take a rocket to the chest and don't die.
And I respect none of their opinions, because they obviously don't know what makes a good game. Often enough, realism is thrown in to gameplay so as to draw people in to buying it, but has a negative long term effect. Take the following example: In counter-strike, if a bullet strikes you in the head, the damage modifier is so high that you're almost bound to die. "cool!" say the ignorant masses, "That's like what it would be in real life! That's awesome!".
This, in actuality, is probably the worst aspect of counter-strike. Take that multiplayer games are meant to be a test of skill against skill (a pretty obvious assumption to affirm, so I won't go in to it here). Seeing as bullet placement has a random aspect to it (another realism aspect), one sees the inevitable conclusion: sometimes, without any act of great aiming, people get shot in the head and die. Thus the contest is won via luck, and not skill. This is completely contradictory to the statement that multiplayer games are meant to be a test of skills, and subsequently this kind of realism hampers gameplay.
And if that's not too extreme of an example, try this out: Imagine a colonial wars FPS. Muskets that take 45 seconds to reload! If your powder gets wet you can't fire! Really smell all the gangrene on your fellow soldiers! Guns Randomly Explode!
So, to conclude, don't say that realism will make a game good, it often works the other way around.
Its a well-observed effect that scores of Americans on IQ tests have been rising about three points per decade since mass IQ tests were given to soldiers in WWI. This is called the "Flynn effect" after the sociologist who observed this. (IQ tests are now re-centered to make 100 "average" everage few years, like SAT now are.) This effect extends across every ethnic group. An average soldier during WWI would be considered slightly retarded today. The cause of this effect is attributed to the richer visual stimulation of new media like TV and video games. Modern people don't seem to have better factual knowledge than a century ago (wathc Jay Leno's streetwalking clips). But they seem to solve IQ test problems better.
Finally I can imagine that I'm strafing Korean civilians or at My Lai!
Nobody worships the military more than a peacetime civilian population with no personal experience of war.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I have a great deal of respect for the military, but if using games as a recruiting tool doesn't qualify them as political speech, then what would?
If a candidate released a game that revolved around disrupting protests by groups campaigning again him, would that do it? Might be kind of a fun game. Like GTA3, except with special interest groups....
So the government can use games for recruiting, but apparently some Luddites still think they can't be used for communicating an opiniong?
Yeah, that makes sense....
some of us don't. Not everyone here on /. is American and even those that are could use some humour every now and again.
See Tom Cruise movie coming out later this summer..
My point was that its the "real"-est GAME out right now. No need to get hostile. You'll notice my point was that being able to fire back was one way they curbed "realism" for "fun."
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
And in those days, the King's word was law, so, after looking around and finding there not to be a single woman in the room, each man dropped his trousers and pulled his own chain.
The GPL makes software more like your mom. Free and open to all.
Actually, could be a really good thing...
All the good equipment runs on Unix-based systems, especially anything where security is important.
You won't have to whine about job security.
You'll lose some weight.
You won't be in a cubicle, perhaps the modern day version of shovelling shit in Louisana.
Once the army is staffed by gamers can this be far behind? And would it be a bad thing? (disturbing yes.. but bad?)
Two days later, the e-mail from the recruiter came:
It is the soldier, not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the soldier who salutes the flag,
who serves under the flag,
and who's coffin is draped by the flag
who allows the protester to burn the flag.
This is my one regret about my service: that people have no friggin idea what we do. 98% of that is OOTW (operations other than war).
I play MOHAA with realism mod turned on and no respawns. It's quite realistic and fun at the same time.
Hey...you never know...
But Military Recruiter spam would be a whole new level.
Is no one else thinking that sending out 1.2 Million CDs with a free game is a great way for the DoD to silently get people to put trojan type software onto their systems...
Call me paranoid, but the world could just be that messed up.
I saw the light at the end of the tunnel... But it was just someone with a flashlight bringing more work.
I am willing to risk a lot of karma points on this one, because I find it absolutely amazing that a load of people get so worked up about a comment that should be, IMO, thought provoking if anything.
Firstly I am absolutely against militaries of any nation glamourising wanton killing and making life seem as cheap as it is at the end of a barrel of a video game. I am probably stupid but I see a difference between a game company making a game for the market and that same company making a propaganda tool for the military (again, irrespective of what nation it is) because that is what this is: a propagnada PR tool.
I am very much against things like this because they make life cheap and they don't provide anything like a real picture of what a soldiers life is like (vis. the sim's comments "in the mess" etc) or why those wars are being fought (i.e. the ratings comments).
I AM NOT claiming that Saddam Hussein is a nice guy who should retire after his term of office and go and live in palm beach, but I very much do wonder why it seems like the god given duty of american politicians to drum up support, which is not forthcoming from anywhere outside the US, for the destruction of his fairly f*cked up regime? Especially since it was previous American administrations that allowed him to get as powerful as he is today and actively supported him in the early stages of the Iran Iraq war.
This game doesn't ask you to think why those previous administrations didn't give a flying f*ck about gassed Kurds because those same administrations were of the opinion (rightly or wrongly) that an independant Kurd nation would dangerous to the stability of the region. This is the point: no administration cares about freedom loving peoples or anything like that. Saddam's regime while definitely having built AND USED WMD in the Iran Iraq war on Iranians (where, again, no one gave a damn) is much more of propaganda demon, IMO, than he really is. The Gulf war was fought about oil, not about, freedom or WMD.
These games don't mention things like this or even ask you to make up your own mind or *search* for more information. That's why I dislike them.
FWIW, I worked for the USAF for two years in the '80s.
Apparently, even the brightest of you can't see through this. Some people respond with vengeful "You'd better respect our servicemen!" messages, while others reply with half-ass comments about cleaning bathrooms. I'm not particularly thankful for our military service-people. If they want to go get their asses blown up, hey, cool! I know I'm gonna die some day, and it may not be fun, but I'm not gonna do it for some government. You people watch too much TV. No wonder they're using video games: they have a captive audience. America sure is interesting. ::yawn::
Dismantle globally, renew locally.
I've wondered for some time why the military doesn't make available simplified versions of their flight simulators, tank simulators, navy bridge simulators. That way, teens would arrive at the recruiting office having already devoted thousands of hours developing the skills the military needs.
More subtle would be developing games that aren't obviously military in theme, yet develop skills wanted by the military. Wait! That's what these games do, isn't it? Focusing on obedience, dedication, hard work at priorities set by others...
Go on... TRY to convince me it'll be free of spyware!
And another thing: shouldn't the Defense Department be working on more pressing matters at this time??
ARGH!
Mmmmmm... Bold, yet refreshing!
Yeah Yeah, We all saw the Last Starfighter
If someone made a game, where you would be "playing" the "other side", planting bombs in buildings or flying planes into civilian buildings or perhaps even blowing yourself up in a shopping mall or doing mission training in a remote montainous country, would you play it?
A lot of games enable you to play both "sides".
Smack as they should. If you want to read perhaps the best SF, then read Asimov (Foundation series, Robot Series). The foundation series is officially the best SF series of all time (no joke, check the book cover for proof).
This was a story about games yes?
SimPMCS
We were ALWAYS checking the condition of our equipment that would never get used between check intervals (weekly). I figured all Army equipment mearly dissolved to nothing in free air if left alone.
and I can bet it'll be a hit among us Day of Defeat lovers...
But the real question is: will they make it a MMOFPS? Imagine thousands vs thousands of players staging a world war!!!!
That would surely beat HL's limit of 32(?) players on a given server...
No, seriously, I just come here for the articles.
I actually joined the Canadian Armed Forces (Army), in part, due to my desire to create more accurate weapons simulations for Traveller and other RPG games.
In fact, during my service (was a Sargeant, in various engineer, infantry, and HQ units) I used my knowledge of practical military experience to develop better simulation methods for road, bridge, and boat building and demolitions for fantasy and SF RPGs.
One of my games even came to me after a six-week bridge building exercise in the Chilcotin mountain range in B.C.
So - while I understand why people might be upset by this (I'm no fan of Bush, even though I'm more of a Texan than he'll ever be) - you can't say this is that insidious.
And don't kid yourselves - some people in our administration (mostly combat-avoiding REMFs like Bush and Cheney) may be promoting this war for the wrong reasons - but it is a war we must not only fight, but win.
In fact, it infuriates me that we are prosecuting the war with attention only to the military side and ignoring actions such as cutting off their money flow for aid, education, supplies, training, and volunteers in such "allies" as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, which are helping create the very terrorists attacking us, while they pretend they're not.
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Can we mod this news story down to "-1, flamebait"? That sure seems to be what it is here....
I'm with you and Michael - I'm a rifleman (no longer serving) in the Corps [Obligatory disagreement with your '*' :)]. I had a LOT of fun for those 8 years, learned a lot, basically enjoyed the hell out of it.
Personally I got a kick out of the 'coming soon' titles, and didn't find them offensive at all. Of course, I'm not sensitive about the mess-hall crack because we don't get mess-hall-medals in the corps (*snicker*!).
While I appreciate the respect Zeddicus and Livin4Golf have for the military and those who serve, you guys have got to lighten up a little. There is a lot of mindless BS that goes along with serving - and no one likes to feel like they've sandbagged.
Ctimes2
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
I've been playing Iraq's Army and it's just not the same.
or could we find better ways to spend $7.5 MILLION, like maybe educating kids?
-techwolf
I don't do this for karma, I do it for cash. It's much better.
Funny joke about invading Iraq :(
I thought we were attacking Iraq to keep our population numbers high you traitor! Maybe you forgot that Iraq and Iran were money people involved in killing thousands of people in NYC. Guess they were one guy short.
Show some respect for the dead and the men who will have to go where you will not have to. This time they will be greeted with NBC weapons.
I hope the game simulates American hating journalists from the left criticising its soldiers and heroes while they are wearing biological/chemical defence gear in the summer heat while they are trying to figure out how to feed your family back in the US. Then young people will get a firm understanding of what its like to be a soldier today.
Your comment is ignorant and shameful, and just shows that you are spoiled by the gift of liberty that my ancestors bled to give you.
I can see it now, all those soldiers running around the battlefield looking for ammo pickups and the quad damage.
Israel has attacked a foreign country much less powerful then itself, Lebenon.
Israel had occupied for more than a decade another countries land, in Lebanon
Israel continues to occupy a people against its wishes.
Israel has used chemical weapons in wars.
Israel has an active bio chemical weapons program.
Israel has a proven nuclear weapons program with over two hundred war heads.
Israel has defied every UN resolution against it.
Israel carries out extra judicial killings.
Israel fires missles and other explosives over civilian areas.
Forget Iraq, lets attack Israel. But then again we might be called anti-semites for doing that.
"Army of aboot Eight"...
Actually, the Canadian pronunciation of "about" is closer to "a boat" than "a boot". (Read More...)
Will I retire or break 10K?
One thing that I see frequently here is the stupid snide comments by posters/slashdot admins.
This one is "...and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High."
The post is good, the info is good, but the un-needed political whine just removes "good" from the whole thing. No matter what the slant, I'd like to get decent info without biased whining on either side.
On the game side of the story, I think this is the most common sense ideas anyone has had in years. The military is expensive and doesn't generate money, so why not use the obvious skills in the military to make money? Just like Tom Clancy getting into realism gaming, the Army probably has a lot of great gaming ability in there somewhere.
And Epic... well they've proven themselves.
The price we pay for immortality... is death. Narnia The Great Fall
You want us to come and burn the Whitehouse down, again?
:-P
What about The Last Starfighter?
Any sufficiently simple magic can be passed off as mere advanced technology.
So THAT'S how the feds are going to get Magic Lantern onto your machine. Government sponsored/created software.
With bills such as the "Violent Video Game Protection Act" (Slashdot | CNN) becoming more prevalent in Congress, it is certainly interesting that this project was approved. I suppose that a "violent video game" is acceptable in the eyes of our government provided it propagates military propaganda. The inherent trivialization of human conflict and death is irrelevant, as long as little Billy applies to be a soldier.
If these inane bills are enacted, only first person shooters sponsored by the government will remain uncensored. Interesting.
Do you like German cars?
It's also the fact that you resort to insults and childish name-calling to get your "point" across. As far as I am concerned, that automaticlly invalidates anything you might have to day. Now, feel free to prove me right by spewing more grade-school profanity by way of reply.
Try Earthweb by Marc Stiegler. It starts out with nearly the same concept; The US Government/Military funding arcade games in order to harvest the the talent it needs to save the Earth from an apocalyptic menace (aren't they all?). It also introduces some cutting edge techno-social premises that I've only just now been seeing here on /. Oh, did anybody happen to mention The Last Starfighter? It's all actually not a bad concept until you find out that perfect soldier you were looking to recruit with a perfect virtual combat record is only thirteen. "Keep an eye on that one, Agent Jones..."
You need a FREE iPod Nano
..even thought people know a soldier is risking there life, they hate to have that thrown at them.
That said, I'm looking forward to a game with this much realism. I know a game that requires thinking I will excel at. Runnning around in a pattern and shooting spawn point is nothing but a pretty version of Pac-Man.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Seriously, why in the hell do you live in our country, accept it's citizenship and the numerous benefits and freedoms that come with it?
A nation exists through the political will of it's people to define itself constantly and to defend it's existence in the face of those who would other wise seek it's destruction or removal.
While the US may have gone astray of the political will of the people in recent years, thanks to liberal policies and the entrenchement of both sides in the power that is politics, this is still a great nation well worth fighting for. People like you make me sick
We like to decieve ourselves and think that our own lives and the lives of others is not cheap... that it is precious and worth making every effort to value and keep safe from harm.
The reality is that people are only worried about themselves and the ones they 'love' (love being a many faceted concept). Some people, a minority but still a significant number, place a love type valuation on Nation and Religion and Race and extend the idea of defense of life to those entities as they exist.
However, I didn't see 5.5 Billion people jumping on the next available ship or plane to go to Rowanda when millions died under the machette. that's because it is removed and not important to you/me/them. That's because life is indeed cheap, and history is strewn with more examples than can be recounted in a room full of books of how this is just so.
Here's the catch (from the article):
"Those who do not successfully complete Green Beret training, which as always includes becoming a paratrooper, are reassigned within the Army."
I bet that most recruits won't be able to finish the program and will end up grunts in the Army anyway.
The reality of free software.
The DoD is going full throttle on the recruitment deals now... First it was giving the Army access to public school registration records for recruitment purposes and now it's games... Now I wouldn't mind a game that was realistic, but this new game will probably glorify the Army (As Seen on TV(tm)). And I'm sure they'll definatly be a whole lot of "JOIN TODAY TO LIVE THE ADVENTURE" signs and such in the game as well... That's the type of recruiting that makes me sick... Selling it as the best thing in the world and then not living up to face value. If they're going to try and sell it, I'd wish they would at least do it realistically.
On another note, there doesn't seem to be very much information on the site:
While trying to retrieve the URL: http://www.americasarmy.com/
The following error was encountered:
* Connection Failed
The system returned:
(111) Connection refused
The remote host or network may be down. Please try the request again.
-Valen
The Military's recruiters biggest targets are people in high school. These games are probably primarily targeting this group of people too. Most high school students are under the age 18. I belive just about every shooter and every game that has blood and gore gets that MA-18 rating that children under 18 are not allowed to play. Is the government going to tell us that its okay for children to play this violent game but not others?
At least with the first two they're being rather honest about army life. As for "invading Iraq", I don't think that will ever get around to happening.
Moderator makes comment implying that the President of the U.S. would attempt to boost his ratings by going to war with Iraq.
Iraq. You know, Saddam Hussein's playground. The place where the ruler gets to gas his citizens, invade his neighbours, and sponsor international terrorism.
I point out the sickness of the implication and *I'm* modded down?
Sick, I say. Sick.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Durring the demo, the helicopters spooked the kangaroos as planned, and they ran off at lightning speed, only to regroup and come back at lightning speed and fire stinger shoulder-launched andti-aircraft missles back at the helicopters. A good example of how code reuse without thought can get you into trouble. At least the visitors thought it was funny.
Copyright Violation:"theft, piracy"::Anti-Trust Violation:"thermonuclear price terrorism"<-Overly dramatic language.
Will there be mods like for Half-Life and Unreal? Then it will become popular, when a good DM mod comes out.
I served 4 years in the Army, painting rocks and pulling weeds and picking up cigarette butts. It was insulting after spending 18 months in training and getting poked and investigated just to be another gardener.
"Sim Hey michael Keep Your GD Commie Opinions Off The Front Page"
You know where you are? You're in the $PATH, baby. You're gonna get executed!
you send the robots into the battlefield and the gamers could control them.
The Army using sims to recruit. It seems that the person who wrote this story is afraid that Army sims will hypnotize the general public into mindless soldiers. Pity. I find it hard to believe that the Army could come up with any game more graphic in violence and scope also addictive then what is available now.
Sim blister, Sim clean latrine, The original poster must have a maid to clean his bathrooms and a cart to move around back and fourth. I hope anybody who ever joins the Army, or try out the "Army Sims" are not fooled into thinking that the Army will clean your latrines and do your laundry. I hope people are not fooled into thinking that in the Army you don't have to walk, run, jump, climb ie get blisters.
If anyone is considering getting hypnotized will consult me first so that I can remind them that the Army involves doing many mundane tasks that they currently do for themselves now, (at least most of us, apparently the original poster doesn't, hence his need to remind everyone else that they will start doing so upon entering the Army).
I will say that I don't think the Army can come up with a sim where you or you see your friends die a horrible death at the hands of the enemy and then later you can't do anything to them when you capture them because of people, in the U.S. or other decadent nations, like the original poster would protest, whine etc.
Also the last statement, about approval ratings: Lets leave Iraq alone and hope he the muslim nations all of a sudden stop preaching hatred to their young people in their schools and Sadam will stop threatening the world with weapons of mass destruction. After all they were peaceful cultures before we interfered with them.
Finaly, I hope the Army fails and eventually the Army dissapears due to lack on enrollment. After all some people, societies, cultures are not worth saving. If some of the men and women of the current armed forces new these people they would probably all leave. But don't let that worry anyone, after all who needs the Army right?
By the way I'm out of work web/java developer - veteran who has a longer memory and apparently a better education than the oringal poster.
First one is shareware, to get the complete game you need to enlist.
Added features: Real weapons, realistic explosions, life-like A.I., and a buzz cut.
Isreal, has NEVER used chemical weapons in open warfare (the Mossad is another issue).
Israel has less than six nuclear warheads, all very large and bulky. One for each arab capital, most likely given to them by us.
Isreal HAD a limited military sponsored bio and chem weapons program. It has been terminated.
Israel has done most of the other stuff you said, though you don't put some of them into context and they look worse than they really are.
In general, I do agree that we should just drop any support for Israel at this point... it's been the biggest mistake the US has ever made in international politics.
Sim Standing Guard in the Rain will be a downloadable photograph with instructions that read: "Watch this photo for four hours and /DO NOT/ fall asleep!"
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
I agree with you to a point but many would prefer to have freedom or death. Then again, when a .44 caliber gun is against their head we'll see if they are sure then if they want death as their freedom was taken away.
"Allez Cusine!"
With Epic on the job, I've no (or at least little) doubt the gameplay will be good, easily worth what I'll be paying for it. :-) That said, I just hope the propaganda is not blatant "The Army rocks, join the army, the army is your friend, being in the army is cool and fun." That's an idiotic approach. Far better is simply to emphasize the realism of your games in press releases, then make darn sure the games are fun and have a good storyline, which will encourage the player to identify with their side of the game - in this case, the military. Subtlety, that's the ticket. Oh, and maybe some ad banners in-game. Those I could deal with.
I'm the stranger...posting to
If they want to recruit people to the armed forces, there are cheaper ways:
0) if you go in the army for 2 years, it's legal for you to smoke pot.
1) Same as above, plus free t-shirt, $5 bucks, free beer, poster of an attractive pop star, etc...
They might not get the folks they want, but they'd sure get a lot of 'em!
sir_haxalot
stuff |
Can it be coincidence that the military is developing unmanned attack vehicles at the same time they are developing and promoting war games with realistic physics? Just yesterday, Boeing conducted the maiden flight of the X45A UCAV, an unmanned attack airplane that is designed to be shipped into a conflict region and flown in advance of manned aircraft. You can read about that at msnbc.com.
But as for these games, what better way to train people to control these vehicles than by getting young people to play them and master them in virtual form. Some day would you even know the difference if your networked war flight sim was really just a sim, or if the mission you thought you were flying virtually was actually being flown in some remote theater of battle.
If you really think about it has some very disturbing aspects. For one, imagine the level of detachment this allows a person. If you are flying a plane or driving a tank in the real world, seeing the innocent people living near your target might cause you to have second thoughts about hitting that target because you might kill innocents. But would you think twice about blowing up civilians in a game if that's what your mission called for? Probably not. It's just a game after all, right?
Now, of course if you knew the game you were playing was tied to events in reality, again, your morality might give you pause. But what if there was just a 1 in 100 chance that the events in the game were real. 1 in a 1000? At some point, you might stop worrying about it because you think it's just a game again. But imagine hundreds and thousands of 'soldiers' reporting for duty every day, with the only job being playing these war games for hours. It seems like a good way to commit acts that might be considered atrocities to the world without the moral and ethical concerns for the low level personnel.
It's kinda scary.
You wanna hear my opinion on gays in the Military?
*sigh*
All right, here's what I think about gays in the Military.
ANYONE who is STUPID ENOUGH to want to be in the Military should be allowed in, OK?
michael's extremely unfunny and lame attempt at humor following the submitter's comments completely undermines all the good that our military does for us.
Maybe I'm the only one, but I would love to play a game that simulates the real experience of Army life (I am an Army veteran myself). I imagine something like The Sims, you have to devote time to making your bunk, shining your boots, cleaning up your locker, cleaning the latrine, waxing the floor etc; and still make it to the morning PT formation on time. Or maybe a point and click adventure game where you try to get all the correct authorities to sign the paperwork you need (but the all won't sign it until you do favors for them or bribe them with something they can't get themselves but your job gives you access to). It would be great fun! Uh but I guess not much of a recruiting tool.
Thank you for calling The United States Marine Corps.... (you can find it here. ... ...you will be connected to some disgruntled, passed over seargeant at the recruiting station in your nearest strip mall...
P.S. Being a dirt soldier is for wimps. Real men join the Navy. :)
Well, Lebanon was occupied by Syria at the time, and continues to be right now. It was also hosting (and continues to host) groups dedicated to attacking non-combatants, which I find a useful definition for terrorist. The invasion may have been brutal, it may have been a bad idea - dunno. But there's not a country in the world who would have put up with what was coming from Lebanon had it the means to stop it.
Blowing a terrorist's head off with a cell phone bomb may be extra judicial, but contrast the care taken with the Engineer's profession - preparing for indescriminate slaughter of non-combantants. There is no moral problem here. None. They made sure it was him on the phone before detonating.
Israel has acted with a restraint one can not expect from its enemies. That's the difference between Israel and Iraq. How much restraint would the arab armies show were the relative positions of power reversed?
The game is produced by the US Army, a Governemnt entity. According to the rules of IP, a Gorvnment entity can not hold a copyright or a patent on any works produces for it directly, or under contract.
:)
This is the real reason they are giving it away... the law says they have to.
But, that makes this game a version of open source/free software. Some IP lawyer would have to rearch more to find out if the source couls would have to be released also under the non-copyright/full disclosure laws.
That further leads to the question of how Microsoft will respond to the Government using public money (tax dollars) to produce software they intend to release for free in to a market that Microsoft would like to dominate (see Xbox and their growing library of games for PC).
Hmmm. Microsoft vs. the Army... perhaps Redmond will get bombedto ashes after all.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
I will quite readily admit I am an "anti-gun" nut, but I see no problem with these games. They're games, not guns, and I'm got no problem with guns in the hands of the military. In fact, I'd like to see them get newer, better guns. It's guns in the hands of Joe Schmoe that worry me. That said, I think all sysadmins should be issued Uzis - the one perk of a grim, bleak existence.
I'm the stranger...posting to
so are they going to use the game as a recruitment tool in the same way as the games in teh last starfighter were used? will uncle sam come knocking on my door because i've been a first ranked sniper for 6 mos?
and you thought games that paged you were bad
Every combat soldier in Afganistan right now volunteered for the duty, according to the Air Force Reserve Lt. Colonel that came in to talk to my high school french class.
I'm the stranger...posting to
Roblimo and Micheal, as previously mentioned, were in the military, and I also know that there are more than a few military and ex-military people who read and post to /. So maybe a lot of it is just in fun?
I'm the stranger...posting to
Myth II SB with WWII p[lugin plays better and you get the modern war plugins to simulate real wars and redesign the game for different world locations..
maybe Army should have bought Bungie before MS swallowed them up!
Don't Tread on OpenSource
They have secret plans in the works.
"brian washing", "its just a game to play", WHAT???? i dont get it. these people keep YOU and you Q III server safe at night, and make no mistake when you go to the store next week and buy a pack of gum. be glad that there is someone that just stopped some crazy from blowing you up with a homemade bomb. you people dont seem to get the point of all this. when.. i say again WHEN the next bomb rocks the US and you all feel "real sad" you can know that these poeple are tying to save lives. YOUR SONS, YOUR DAUGHTERS life. get over yourselves. people like you.... im done and when...when the us has to stop another attack and we dont have enoough personal to do it dont you DARE come back to me. peace, i love you all but shut up.
Careful what you say around me.. I will assume you mean it.
That was a cool movie for the time!
As a former Marine I've noticed a few things. Most of the time when people criticize the Military they really mean to criticize the Government. We in the Military don't decide who to attack and we only get to decide there where when and how on a very limited scale. That is stuff decided by the President and staff. The reason most of us even enlisted is to serve our country. Not serve the Republican not serve the Democrats but serve the American People and their intrests. YOU, the American, the voter decide what we go off and fight and die for. What I am trying to say is when the Military has to go and kill people(because that is really our primary function, bockades and humanitarian stuff aside) and you don't like that we are there then you better let the right people know you are pissed off about it because some Private has no control over the sitituation other kill or be killed.
It's all Politics
Here's where I got the quote on the Naval PostGrad school link to the game....t ml
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-921144.h
Quoting the story;
"Commander Brian Osborne, a Naval Post-Graduate School student who developed the software engine for "Soldiers" as his doctoral thesis..."
So it seems at least part of the game was independantly developed, unless this story is in error. Most academic theses are available to the public; I would think that's also true of the NPS, although I could be wrong. If the public COULD get the source, that would certainly be very interesting to have a look at....
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
I would be a bit pissed off if I was an American games company that was developing a similar game, having to compete with a product paid for at the taxpayer's expense and distributed for free in competition with my own product. Hell, I'd be mighty pissed off knowing that the sales tax from my games could be going to help create a direct competitor.
I wouldn't call a 1% share fast growth... what is that, up from .25% or something? Get a grip hop head... linux is dead but just won't admit, like you.
One of the first articles about this awesome game, brought to you by LANParty.com! See the entire article here.
Andrew 'Mickey Knox' Gearhart
Ymra Eht Nioj!
Ah, no. That should be:
"Sim Invading Iraq So The Psychopath Doesn't Eventually Build Nuclear Weapons"
Jesus, brainwashing over there reached really scary limits. Fantastic results, really. Wonder what will be the next step...
Yeah go ahead defend Israel the most RACIST country in the world. Sometimes I am appalled by you jews, you pretend to be liberal and all but you support any wrong that israel does and want to anihlate any enemies it seems to have including infants, women, old men. Most of the problems us has with arabs and muslims would go away instantly if us stopped supporting the racist, terrorist country.
"Israel has acted with a restraint one can not expect from its enemies. "
You call killing kids hiding behind their parents restraint. How about I come over to your house shoot your kids and kick you out and then offer you back twenty-two percent of the house if you get on your knees and beg. Blinded by Racism? I can understand, every zionist is.
"Lebanon was occupied by Syria at the time, and continues to be right now."
They have no problems with that why do you have a problem with it. If you care about Lebenon so much how about attacking Syria, or may be cat got your balls.
"There is no moral problem here"
How about blowing up top floor of a five story building filled with civilians just to kill a "SUSPECTED" terrorist and risking over a hundred civilian lives. Is there a moral problem with that. Probably not because you are blinded by RACISM. You are a racist and a moron.
Actually, the Canadian Armed Forces decommissioned that entire parachute regiment.
And cashiered some of the officers.
Those of us serving at the time were proud that they took swift and decisive action in getting rid of bad apples.
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Maybe that would actually go over big... afterall, people loved those Tomagotchi's/Gigapets/whatever watch sized beeping LCDs.
And of course who could forget the sheep?
Actually, it's pretty much the Arabs who are advocating genocide. Eliminating Israel is the preferred goal of a majority of Arabs, no? Only a fringe of Israelis are determined to hold on to all of the West Bank. Look - the Palestinians are under the guns of the IDF right now. What's holding the IDF back? What is preventing them from killing every Palestinian?
If the shoe were on the other foot, would anything hold back Hamas and the PLO? I don't think so.
I'm not denying that Israeli forces have committed some atrocities. It does not look to me that it's policy. Detonating bombs in crowded pizza parlors DOES seem to be Palestinian policy and one supported by a majority of Palestinians.
By the way - I'm not Jewish.
The web site says that it will ship, for free, a copy of the game CD to anyone between the ages of 13 and 34... this is the same government that wants to restrict the sale of FPS (and other) games to minors because they are violence incarnate, and can only breed killers.
So I guess the message is, "violence is bad, unless we have you on a government leash"... or maybe it's just that the government doesn't actually believe its own hype about the influence of 'violent' games.
Or maybe it's just doublethink.
If we give the military all the weapons and the citizens get none of the weapons then we run into a problem when the government decides to overstep it's boundaries.
Besides, Joe Schmoe, as you so eloquently put it, IS the Army. I enjoy target shooting and hunting and I think if you do not want to own a weapon, that is your right. But please, do not go and try to take my right to do something I enjoy in a safe and perfectly normal manner away from me.
Guns and rifles and any other tool that can also be used destructively are harmless in and of themselves. They require education and a healthy respect for safety, but I strongly disagree that I should not be allowed to own a rifle because you feel uncomfortable about it.
It is all the idiots out there who leave loaded unlocked weapons around for their kids to play with, or point weapons at people they do not intend to shoot that are a real problem.
I think requiring mandatory education for anyone possessing a gun is a much more reasonable solution.
Can't pass the training that proves you are capable of handling a firearm, then sorry you do not get to have one. But I think most people are able to learn the responsibility assocated with a firearm. If they weren't, we would not have a military or a police force (and yes they are exceptions to the rule in those cases, I've seen that first hand.)
Peace.
Sing with me now!
In the Navy,
You'll get assraped on the seas!
In the Navy,
Large men will have you as they please!
In the Navy...
I read on the blurb for Soldiers:
"Adjust your soldier's personality and watch how it changes his decisions"
There are some very healthy lessons to be learned from that:
- That your decisions don't have to be knee-jerk reactions.
- That your decisions have long-reaching effects on your life.
- That if you want a good life, making the right decisions early is the best way to make it happen.
It seems that there are fewer and fewer chances for children to learn those lessons as time goes on. The thought of a million kids, each taking responsibility for making the most of their own life.... it seems too good to be true.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
I realize this is slashdot but it still disheartens me to see such blatent and obvious editorial bias on what is essentially a news site. Oh well back to microsoft bashing.
I'm a programmer, I don't have to spell correctly; I just have to spell consistently
You people are lame, the comment about "sim invading iraq to boot aproval ratings" was funny. Get over it, I was laughing my ass off, and thoroughly enjoying the article until the flame war began. Give it a rest, the old adage fits well here, if you don't have something nice to say, find another news site(ok, so thats not exactly how it goes, but close enough). I seriously doubt anyone took any of micheal's editorial comments seriously, but if they did, that's their problem, not his.
sheesh
You know, this isn't necessarily a gaffe. Although a bullet has lots of kinetic energy, because of its low mass it doesn't have a high momentum. Also, bullets tend to pass through people rather than lodging in them so they may not transfer all their momentum.
They guys one the ground were special armor piercing bullets. They pass right through regular people. They hit a guy 10 times and he just keep running because he didn't know he was shot. It'd better to have the guy really know he got shot so he'd freakout and try to save himself insted of staying and fighting.
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
Normally this sort of comment would have been labelled "flaimbait"... Maybe there isn't a script making moderations after all... Nah, it's gotta be. You just got lucky.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
The problem is that a person of average intelligence would be able to pass any "gun resposibility" course you might teach, but simply choose not to apply that knowledge once they are permitted to own a gun. Or, a person might pass the course, and then decide to use their gun to harm another human being. I have no doubt that you, sir, are responsible and sane. But is the benefit you gain from being able to own a gun - recreation - worth the consequences we face, should someone who should not have a gun get one? It's not "fair", but I would be willing to see millions of Americans deprived of their - admittedly - safe and responsible sport, if anti-gun legislation could keep just one gun out of the hands of a murderer or idiot. And the most effective anti-gun legislation would be one that completely bans guns for non-police or non-military use.
Frankly, your shotgun, rifle, or handgun would be next to useless against a government armed with missiles and assault weapons, should it choose to run amok. So that argument is just plain moot.
I'm the stranger...posting to
Operation Hurry Up and Wait
Call me paranoid but you won't catch me installing a piece of software made by a branch of a far right government in my computer.
I don't wan't want to be a direct part of Echelon.
The Bush administration....
Read about the removal of Jose Bustani... it's Bush that's creating the situation here...
Buckets,
pompomtom
"There's an exception to every rule. Except for some rules"
So you install some DoD software on your very own PC. It's got complete access to your PC, likely some of your internal network, and even more likely to the internet.
Are you going to slap a packet capturer on your LAN so you catch the game when it phones home, and says to DoD: "Little Johhny is an excellent marksman; recommend acquisition. Beware, however, his tendencies towards same-gender attraction."
Well, do you?
The United States Marine Corps is the finest group of men ever set forth on our soil. Unlike the Army or the Navy, everyone in the Marine Corps is a soldier. You must qualify on rifle, you must go to Marine Combat Training, and you must be trained in hand-to-hand combat [well starting a few years ago when they required tan belts].
I find it sad for people to speak of the Army as an "elite fighting force". The Army has some very nice special forces; but overall they are a bunch of potato peelers who are best at sticking around Kosovo 5 years after the last conflict.
[23 Year USMC; stations including Okinowa, MCAS Yuma, MCAS Beaufort, MCRD Parris Island [Nothing better than 3rd Bn Kilo Co], 29 Palms, and a one year stint as admin at NAS Jacksonville]
No, you were modded down because you applied a +1 rating to a comment that really was little more than drivel.
This really looks like a nice game. I am a Delta Force fan so this game is right up my alley. As soon as the game is open for download it shall be played by me... And yes is does remind me of the Toys movie. As soon as I have seen the movie I was waiting for it to become a reallity... why the hell do we send old people (yes 30+ is old) while you could send an indistructable robot army controlled by youngsters that have superior reflexes?
True freedom is somewhat nebulous. That doesn't mean its not worth dying for. Try reading some books like 1984, A Handmaid's Tale or Farenheit 451 and tell me that there's nothing about freedom worth dying for.
I disagree. I think that if the Palestinians had a powerful military, money, and were occupying Isreali land, I think the palestinians would be in the same place where Isreal is today and vise-versa.
There is anger and hostility on both sides.. Both sides would like to see the other anhiliated.. Both sides have killed many civilians.
People will use whatever weapons they have available to defend themselves, even if those weapons are themselves.
well no one else has referenced it so far :P
A sailor and a grunt are at a pisser
the grunt finishes and leaves without washing his hands
the sailor yells "hey, in the navy they teach us to wash our hands"
the grunt says "in the marines they teach us not to piss on our hands"
Yes, it's very important to invade every country that might have possibly develop some dangerous weapons. Or might have come out with dangerous ideas. Or might have too much oil for their own good. Or whatever...
... and it's important to understand, that US Army is good, because by controlling world largest media, it can proclaim it very loudly. Other countries' armies are bad, because they don't shout so loud. The media campaign about Yugoslavia was full of lies - they hit one tenth of targets they claimed, they killed many civilians and impoverished those, who survived.
Bombing Yugoslavia did not achieve anything. Albanians referred to the US army as "convenient air suppurt" and did not waste the opportunity to carry on their personal vendetta. Now the area is unstable in the very same way, only with the balance of power reversed.
You know, Soviets or US - what's the difference? The power will eventually corrupt anyone. The greatest danger always comes from the one who is strongest at the moment!