Not really, I've been in the industry for about 6+ years. And after all this while, I've just decided that I'd rather work for someone who respects me and wants me, rather than someone that treats me as yet another employee.
Oh please, enough with playing the victim. Nobody's forcing you to sign an non-compete agreement. You do it of your own volition. It is not slavery, no matter how much you spin it.
Hmm, when it is the industry standard, you don't have much of a choice - you either sign it up, or the job goes to someone else.
That leaves you with very little choice.
And more importantly, if I work on a particular narrow domain, it is inevitable that I work for a competitor. If I were to work in the area of Search Engines and left Microsoft, how many companies that don't compete with Microsoft do you think that exist that I could work for?
If every company requires me to sign these, then switching to a better offer becomes almost impossible. You quite literally become chained to any one company.
I may not be the center of the universe, but I certainly don't want others telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing with my own life.
Funny, that's exactly what Dr. Lee would say, too.
And it's not all about you, it's about people who would be exploited with such clauses.
And let's not get overdramatic. A non-compete clause is not signing yourself over to slavery. It's a pretty reasonable thing to do for an employer.
Really?
A company telling me that I pretty much have to work for them for X amount of time, and cannot switch jobs to anyone whom they consider a competitor is pretty much slavery.
Just that the chains are quite virtual doesn't mean that they aren't there. Make no mistake, it's very much there, around your elitist snobbish neck.
And in the case of a company like Microsoft, they're there in just about every other area in computing - and they could consider you to be employed by a competitor no matter where you go, unless you switch professions completely.
You're going to tell me that the state has some vested interest in deciding these things for me?
The state is looking out for those people who would stand to be exploited without these things in place.
Copernicus called, seems like you are not the center of the Universe.
Every Microsoftie that I have talked to recently says that their groups are short headcount or have open headcount and haven't been able to fill positions for quite a while.
Well, for a good reason.
Last year, I interviewed with Microsoft for a summer internship - and they said that they would get back to me immediately.
In the mean while, I was awaiting for my DOE clearance from the Los Alamos National Labs. I had made it absolutely clear to MS that I needed to know if I'd gotten through or not before the date of acceptance at LANL.
But guess what? MS never got back to me. Several emails and phone calls later, MS still didn't even bother responding (and my recruiter never answered her phone for a good two weeks after the date they were supposed to tell me).
So, by this time, my DOE clearance had in fact gotten through on time and I decided to take up MS. And then, I drop a courtesy note to MS telling them of my decision - when I get a call from them telling me that I've been accepted.
All this while, they do not say a word (I guess they were waiting on my application to see if someone better came along), and then the moment I said I was taking up another place, they offer me the position.
I tell them no, and leave a note to my recruiter. A couple of hours later, I get a mail from my recruiter telling me that I've been rejected, even though they'd told me a couple of days ago that they'd accepted me.
This whole experience pissed me off so much that I'd never work for MS. If an employer is not willing to respect me or treat me well enough, I do not care.
Not only do they do they treat you bad, they act like children (ooh, sour grapes!).
I'd much rather work for a smaller lesser known company or even a government facility that genuinely wants me and respects me, even if the pay isn't that great. At the very least, I know that I'm wanted and respected, and will not be treated like dirt.
I'm upset with my government, but do understand that it was indeed the majority choice. I think the majority were easily-manipulated idiots, but that's another conversation.
You mean, because they disagreed with you? Or because in your opinion, their decisions were idiotic?
If I had to live in a communist country, modern China doesn't sound so bad. Where communism turns miserable is when foreign trade, capitalism and consumer choice are excluded - see North Korea.
In a position of power, yes. Not as the common man - as a common man, you probably would realize that a lot of things that you take for granted are inconceivable, and you would be booted away to some distant prison or worse were you to question it.
Or actually, come to think of it, such an experience might prove enlightening for someone who speaks about democracy and freedom of speech, but simply cannot come to terms with the fact that democracy also means that sometimes the other side wins. Or that sometimes just because they disagree with you does not make them idiotic.
And oh, 2000 called - they wanted their liberal whining back.
What conservatives forget is that killing all the terrorists and invading country after country in the Middle East won't magically make the problem go away.
Hmm, that's why WWII ended because folks sat around tables discussing ways to solve the problems, right?
Oh wait, no.
History, you know, kinda has a habit of repeating itself.
AlQ has and will continue to hate us, immaterial of whether we attack Iraq, or whether we act like Ms. Goody-two-shoes.
Like someone on another board said,
"So well done to the fundamentalists today! The 8 most powerful men in the world were meeting to sort out issues on climate change and poverty to benefit the people of the world and the terrorists have managed to throw a spanner in the works."
Like this guy said, what the liberals forget is that no amount of appeasement or accomodation is going to make some asshat of a fundamentalist who receives his orders from a voice in the sky.
Civilization and Islamic terror cannot coexist, one has to go.
Applications include government and military surveillance operations, communication relays, and the potential for persistent real-time imagery of wildfires, hurricanes, and other natural disasters.
Are you kidding me? Wesley Crusher was one of my favorite characters when I was growing up - in fact, as a geek, I could relate to the character and felt that there was nothing wrong in being a geek.
More importantly, Wesley's character told me that at least in an imaginary world, some kid was having a great time just being who he was, and doing cool things that captured his imagination.
It was okay to be geeky, okay to do mistakes, even if you are on a galaxy class starship.
The Traveler and Wesley were perhaps some of the best characters in ST, I owe part of my geekdom to them! =)
This has to be one of the best Slashdot interviews ever - Wil, your responses were truly great, and it was a fun read.
Rather than the make-believe responses that I see on most interviews, this came across as a genuine talk from a fellow geek, rather than a celebrity, as some would put it.
You're right, most of the deadlines in companies are usually imposed artificially by people without a clue.
However, when you are in a startup, the only way you are going to make it big is by delivering more on less time - this is a reality of the market.
Hiring an extra employee (as many folks would suggest) is not an easy task, especially for a small company - there is a lot of overhead that needs to be taken care of, and a company spends much more on the employee than merely the salary.
Therefore, we ask existing employees to put in extra hours to ensure that the deliverables get through.
In such instances, when employees refuse to put in those extra hours, it becomes very hard on the company.
And I would say that this is the reason why the US is such an amazing place for blooming startups. It's a fundamental difference in attitude.
Okay, a strawman argument yet again - I never said they had to spend time at office. In fact, a lot of Swedes seem to like working from home (which I'm quite okay with).
My problem is with the fact that if something comes up (say, a deadline during a long weekend), their unwillingness to work. Or the attitude that says, "I've done this for eight hours, I'm not going to work more even if you are willing to pay overtime."
This industry is ripe with odd hours (particularly if you are a startup), so this attitude is detrimental to the company as a whole.
American and Asian programmers are generally a lot more willing and flexible of these things.
But if you want an extra penny for every little effort that you put, I'd hire someone who does not. And guess what? That's just what's happening.
I'd not say that this is true for US, but this is something that's definitely true for Scandinavia.
I've had good experience with folks from Eastern Europe (smart and efficient folks) and in London, so I can't really generalize this for the whole of Europe. But from what I've heard, this attitude is generally largely prevalent.
Slashdot Mirror
Not really, I've been in the industry for about 6+ years. And after all this while, I've just decided that I'd rather work for someone who respects me and wants me, rather than someone that treats me as yet another employee.
Oh please, enough with playing the victim. Nobody's forcing you to sign an non-compete agreement. You do it of your own volition. It is not slavery, no matter how much you spin it.
Hmm, when it is the industry standard, you don't have much of a choice - you either sign it up, or the job goes to someone else.
That leaves you with very little choice.
And more importantly, if I work on a particular narrow domain, it is inevitable that I work for a competitor. If I were to work in the area of Search Engines and left Microsoft, how many companies that don't compete with Microsoft do you think that exist that I could work for?
If every company requires me to sign these, then switching to a better offer becomes almost impossible. You quite literally become chained to any one company.
I may not be the center of the universe, but I certainly don't want others telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing with my own life.
Funny, that's exactly what Dr. Lee would say, too.
And it's not all about you, it's about people who would be exploited with such clauses.
And let's not get overdramatic. A non-compete clause is not signing yourself over to slavery. It's a pretty reasonable thing to do for an employer.
Really?
A company telling me that I pretty much have to work for them for X amount of time, and cannot switch jobs to anyone whom they consider a competitor is pretty much slavery.
Just that the chains are quite virtual doesn't mean that they aren't there. Make no mistake, it's very much there, around your elitist snobbish neck.
And in the case of a company like Microsoft, they're there in just about every other area in computing - and they could consider you to be employed by a competitor no matter where you go, unless you switch professions completely.
You're going to tell me that the state has some vested interest in deciding these things for me?
The state is looking out for those people who would stand to be exploited without these things in place.
Copernicus called, seems like you are not the center of the Universe.
Oops.
:-)
So, by this time, my DOE clearance had in fact gotten through on time and I decided to take up MS.
I meant to say, "So, by this time, my DOE clearance had in fact gotten through on time and I decided not to take up MS."
Sorry!
Every Microsoftie that I have talked to recently says that their groups are short headcount or have open headcount and haven't been able to fill positions for quite a while.
Well, for a good reason.
Last year, I interviewed with Microsoft for a summer internship - and they said that they would get back to me immediately.
In the mean while, I was awaiting for my DOE clearance from the Los Alamos National Labs. I had made it absolutely clear to MS that I needed to know if I'd gotten through or not before the date of acceptance at LANL.
But guess what? MS never got back to me. Several emails and phone calls later, MS still didn't even bother responding (and my recruiter never answered her phone for a good two weeks after the date they were supposed to tell me).
So, by this time, my DOE clearance had in fact gotten through on time and I decided to take up MS. And then, I drop a courtesy note to MS telling them of my decision - when I get a call from them telling me that I've been accepted.
All this while, they do not say a word (I guess they were waiting on my application to see if someone better came along), and then the moment I said I was taking up another place, they offer me the position.
I tell them no, and leave a note to my recruiter. A couple of hours later, I get a mail from my recruiter telling me that I've been rejected , even though they'd told me a couple of days ago that they'd accepted me.
This whole experience pissed me off so much that I'd never work for MS. If an employer is not willing to respect me or treat me well enough, I do not care.
Not only do they do they treat you bad, they act like children (ooh, sour grapes!).
I'd much rather work for a smaller lesser known company or even a government facility that genuinely wants me and respects me, even if the pay isn't that great. At the very least, I know that I'm wanted and respected, and will not be treated like dirt.
Microsoft can bite my shiny metal ass.
I hope he gets beamed up!
I'm upset with my government, but do understand that it was indeed the majority choice. I think the majority were easily-manipulated idiots, but that's another conversation.
You mean, because they disagreed with you? Or because in your opinion, their decisions were idiotic?
If I had to live in a communist country, modern China doesn't sound so bad. Where communism turns miserable is when foreign trade, capitalism and consumer choice are excluded - see North Korea.
In a position of power, yes. Not as the common man - as a common man, you probably would realize that a lot of things that you take for granted are inconceivable, and you would be booted away to some distant prison or worse were you to question it.
Or actually, come to think of it, such an experience might prove enlightening for someone who speaks about democracy and freedom of speech, but simply cannot come to terms with the fact that democracy also means that sometimes the other side wins. Or that sometimes just because they disagree with you does not make them idiotic.
And oh, 2000 called - they wanted their liberal whining back.
Thank you, I could not have put it better.
Dude, I've trouble getting to the bathroom which at this moment seems far, far away.
I'd say a 149 kajillion light years is definitely far, far away.
???? and profited by old Korean people!!!!1111!111one
What conservatives forget is that killing all the terrorists and invading country after country in the Middle East won't magically make the problem go away.
Hmm, that's why WWII ended because folks sat around tables discussing ways to solve the problems, right?
Oh wait, no.
History, you know, kinda has a habit of repeating itself.
Gee, what an insightful statement. Idiot.
AlQ has and will continue to hate us, immaterial of whether we attack Iraq, or whether we act like Ms. Goody-two-shoes.
Like someone on another board said,
"So well done to the fundamentalists today! The 8 most powerful men in the world were meeting to sort out issues on climate change and poverty to benefit the people of the world and the terrorists have managed to throw a spanner in the works."
Like this guy said, what the liberals forget is that no amount of appeasement or accomodation is going to make some asshat of a fundamentalist who receives his orders from a voice in the sky.
Civilization and Islamic terror cannot coexist, one has to go.
The thing now is to get a grant to further my obesession, I mean research.
I do not know if that was intentional or not, but it sure as hell was funny! ^_^
Parent poster is merely trying to justify his/her inability to learn and speak a language properly.
Heh.
Applications include government and military surveillance operations, communication relays, and the potential for persistent real-time imagery of wildfires, hurricanes, and other natural disasters.
You forgot Gate Recon!!!
> It was eventually found along with Luke's arm
> which was then used to clone an evil Luke.
Who was called Luuke Skywalker.
Are you kidding me? Wesley Crusher was one of my favorite characters when I was growing up - in fact, as a geek, I could relate to the character and felt that there was nothing wrong in being a geek.
More importantly, Wesley's character told me that at least in an imaginary world, some kid was having a great time just being who he was, and doing cool things that captured his imagination.
It was okay to be geeky, okay to do mistakes, even if you are on a galaxy class starship.
The Traveler and Wesley were perhaps some of the best characters in ST, I owe part of my geekdom to them! =)
This has to be one of the best Slashdot interviews ever - Wil, your responses were truly great, and it was a fun read.
Rather than the make-believe responses that I see on most interviews, this came across as a genuine talk from a fellow geek, rather than a celebrity, as some would put it.
More power to people like you! Rock on, dude.
I know, I merely was saying how that quote fit in this context - nothing more.
Wasn't looking to start a believer/non-believer flamewar, mate.
Ironically, the quote at the bottom of the page says -
God doesn't play dice. -- Albert Einstein
Hmm, perhaps not, after all.
Quite possible.
I think this fundamental difference in attitude is why startups flourish and grow big in the US, much more than in Europe.
You're right, most of the deadlines in companies are usually imposed artificially by people without a clue.
However, when you are in a startup, the only way you are going to make it big is by delivering more on less time - this is a reality of the market.
Hiring an extra employee (as many folks would suggest) is not an easy task, especially for a small company - there is a lot of overhead that needs to be taken care of, and a company spends much more on the employee than merely the salary.
Therefore, we ask existing employees to put in extra hours to ensure that the deliverables get through.
In such instances, when employees refuse to put in those extra hours, it becomes very hard on the company.
And I would say that this is the reason why the US is such an amazing place for blooming startups. It's a fundamental difference in attitude.
Okay, a strawman argument yet again - I never said they had to spend time at office. In fact, a lot of Swedes seem to like working from home (which I'm quite okay with).
My problem is with the fact that if something comes up (say, a deadline during a long weekend), their unwillingness to work. Or the attitude that says, "I've done this for eight hours, I'm not going to work more even if you are willing to pay overtime."
This industry is ripe with odd hours (particularly if you are a startup), so this attitude is detrimental to the company as a whole.
American and Asian programmers are generally a lot more willing and flexible of these things.
Ofcourse.
But if you want an extra penny for every little effort that you put, I'd hire someone who does not. And guess what? That's just what's happening.
I'd not say that this is true for US, but this is something that's definitely true for Scandinavia.
I've had good experience with folks from Eastern Europe (smart and efficient folks) and in London, so I can't really generalize this for the whole of Europe. But from what I've heard, this attitude is generally largely prevalent.