This is the Apple section of slashdot. These sections are present for a reason. Apple policies wern't being discussed at all, but Infiniband policies. Given that drivers are now released for Infiniband for OSX, the question of what this brings to Apple Clusters is something relevant to be discussed here. The reason I would brand you a troll is that you're speaking negatatively about something that is not relevant to this section of/.: How linux clusters are effected by IP issues decided by Infinband. You have yet to frame this in terms of contrasting how their policies effect Linux and how Apple drivers are now released. If you had started that way, then perhaps I would have just watched the discussion.
To say I don't want to hear what you have to say has been already been proven wrong, as I have suggested previously that you make such a discussion in the appropriate section of/. at the appropriate time (when the content on LWN becomes publically available). I all but wrote the submission for you! That hardly sounds like I'm trying to keep you from discussing this at all. I've suggested broadening your audience even.
Also to say I've made up my mind about Infiniband or Linux v. Apple clusters couldn't be further from the truth. I haven't said anything about what I prefer, what is best, or anything to indicate my opinion. In fact, I have no informed opinion on the subject at all, much less have I expressed one. As a matter of fact, what is my direct put down of Linux-based clusters? Any comment I made was that this is that clusters likely to look at Infiband are not small scale, hobbyist clusters, but more likely larger clusters with larger budgets, so if the specs are free or not will be less of a factor.
I'm sure my post put me on some terrorist list. Granted, I don't believe the Secret Service will take posting the President's address on the net as a threat (esp. since it's a copy and paste from whitehouse.gov), but I'm sure Ashcroft has someone parked outside right now. Maybe it will scare the neighborhood drug dealers while there sitting out there.
RELEASED THEM? Here this is on an article about wanting to avoid having things such as medical records get in the open, and you're implying he should release his medical records? If he's managed to get there w/o some journalist digging them up, or reconstructing the last 10 years of them, then so be it.
*Oh wait* I seem to remember his heart trouble recently making headlines. Yeah, I'm sure his medical history is nice and private....
Translation: For those living "in the public life," there is no expectation of privacy, so to expect those in public life to understand the motivation of those of us who appreciate privacy to keep it is like talking about being poor to someone who has been rich all their life: They just can't understand. Heck, the news media mentiones when the President has a physical. Some congressional districts probably do this for their representatives too. This is probably only one of the reasons privacy advocates have a hard time pleading their cause in the US.
Apple advocates constantly feel the need to point out in every other discussion about how much better Macintosh does everything.
Calling me an Apple advocate because I see announcement of OS X drivers for a product as unrelated to a discussion about compatability with open source projects is assuming too much. In fact I'm about as cross platform as someone can get. I personally use Linux, OS X and Windows for both work and home. The count of servers at work, where I'm a sysadmin, is 12 Linux, 6 Windows, and 1 Mac OS X server (not counting development servers). I use what bests gets the job done. Sound like a advocate to you?
I don't inject Apple topics into Linux discussions, and I don't appreciate others injecting Linux into Apple related discussions. It's as simple as that. If I was making the comment asking why someone is spouting about OS X in a Linux discussion, would that make you feel better? Usually, that comment is made by the time I read the posts, so I don't bother to say it again.
It certainly makes sense to ask the question of what those proprietary systems bring to the table.
No such question was asked. No question was asked at all. It sounded a lot like complaining about a company's policies in the wrong venue. I even suggested how to adress it in a larger, and more effective venue. If you want a discussion about what companies bring to the table, you don't start it by complaining about IP issues whe a company announces a driver release for a different platform. The post on what the latencies for a few interconnects I found to be the most useful of the discussion, and that is addressing the question that wasn't asked.
If you want to know what Infiniband brings to the table of Linux supercomputing, the answer may be nothing, for reasons cited. But for what it brings to OS X, the topic of the article, the section of/. and the OS of the drivers released, I'd say it brings something to the table.
OK, the "proprietary crap" discussed here is for: #1 XServes runing (wait for it....) Mac OS X. #2 Supercomputers
This is not your linux box you're using for a NAT server, or a Beowolf running SETI, so if you're building a super computer or just like drolling over them and thinking of using and expensive interconnect like InfiniBand, you're not looking to compare it to Beowolf over gigabit, and possibly not likely to care about if the drivers are binary only or not.
This article is in no way related to any LKML posting other than it's the same company. This is about OSX Infiniband drivers. RTFA sometime, and you might realize such things.
Welcome to the Apple section. If you're not interested in discussion of things related to Apple, please uncheck the appropriate box in your preferences, and we will all be happier. If you like to run Linux on Apple Hardware, please examine the OS discussed before trolling.
If you want to troll about Infinbands policies effecting Linux, then wait until the LWN article is public ("Alternatively, this item will become freely available on October 21, 2004"), and submit it to/.'s general section (where I would be more than happy to consider it not trolling), and enjoy a livelier discussion there, with a wider, and more appropriate, audience.
Dell must be using those adaptors to run the servers the recall is being run from as http://www.delladapterprogram.com/ is giving a "Service Unavailable". Hope the fire department in Austin is ready for this...
In reply to myself, I have a friend who brought over his copy of Doom 3 last night and we did some benchmarking on my dual-boot system. As I mentioned I'm on the low end w/ 256 MB RAM. I also have an NVidia based MSI FX5900XT, with the NVidia supplied drivers for both OSs and an Athlon XP 2000+ (slightly overclocked). No over clocking on the video card for fairness sake (nvidia overclocking in linux in cvs only).
Windows XP SP2 Linux, FC2, with xorg recompiled w/ optimizations for athlon and other optimizations, etc. Running *only* twm (all daemons turned off).
Windows wins, though I suspect (as others here at work do) that the drivers for Windows gets more attention, and more optimization as a result. Also, the binary for Doom may be optimized for windows as well, though I find this much less likely, as ID has been supporting linux for sometime.
Well, I can't put the kids back where they came from, so yeah, I'm a gamer on a budget. Get used to the concept. It's called not living in your parent's basement. My 6 year old is turning into a gamer too, which allows some purchases, but playing Doom isn't (yet) one of them.
So enjoy your gig of RAM and know that the entire world does not have disposable income.
*sigh* price of doom = $60. Saved for doom = $30. Take $15 from $30 and I'm back to only having $15 for doom. Plus, $15 is not a price you can get locally here, so You'd have to add shipping so it'd be more like $20-30.
I spent the $200 gaming budget on getting a decent video card in the first place, so the closer I can get to actually *buying* the game, the better. The RAM I can pick up a paycheck or two after. No need to pick it up before. "Cheap" is relatative to how much you have to spend, and what you need to spend it on.
Comparing specs: GNU/Linux system, Pentium III, 1Ghz 256Mb RAM
English version of Microsoft® Windows® 2000/XP Pentium® IV 1.5 GHz or Athlon® XP 1500+ processor or higher 384MB RAM
Sounds like Linux is supposed to perform on less. Since I'm on the low end w/ 256MB RAM (I know it's cheap, etc. but I'm still working on money for the game) and a Athlon XP 2000+, I'll have to see if I get better framerates w/ Linux than Windows. It might me help my buy it sooner if I can skip the RAM. Demo benchmarking time!
This goes against my nature to just say "me too" but I couldn't have said it better myself. Even if all Kerry had was a campaign ribbon, no Purple Hearts, and no Stars, and was a PFC loading boxes then it sure beats campaigning at home and not showing up for duty. I respect both the vets and the Guard members I've met (as all are pledged to put lives on the line), but being there is a far cry more service than not being anywhere. (AWOL may be the correct term, we don't have enough records, AFAIK, but we sure know he missed his physical he was ordered to show for.)
To question Kerry's service records is a straw man - Bush has no service record - correction, so he's actually missing a few of them. If that's your reason for not voting Kerry, or voting for Bush, then you are disrespecting all those who served in any capacity. If you can't get a real reason to vote for a candidate, maybe you should either examine the issues more, or just not vote. Look for the real issues, and pick a candidate based on those.
p.s. This applies no matter who you end up choosing to vote for - just have a good reason, cause we're going to have to live with the decision, so I hope it's based on some good reason, not some crap.
Shal we add any other UNIX vendors in there (SCOX was^H^H^His a UNIX vendor afterall.) No other "pure" UNIX vendors come tom mind (HP sells too many PCs, same with IBM, etc.)
We could add Sun v Apple since they are both a hardware and an OS vendor (even BSD flavored now). I don't believe Terra Soft is listed, but we could compare there as well.
The 2 year timeline avoids stock splits, as Sun has two earlier ones.
I read him the the question, and here is what my son said:
I want you to write a book. Not about you, but about a story. "How about dinousars, please?"
q:Do you want to learn about my work? a: sure
q:Do you want to learn it from a book? a: yes
q:Would you rather I wrote a book about work, or about a story? a: a story about dinosaurs
q:so, how would you like to learn about my work? a: going to work! (excited about this).
from my son: I hope you get my dad to teach me about it, and to try do do the same things at work, and I hope you have a great day, end it with a smile. If I ever come over to work, please have a great smile ready for me. I hope you have a fun day at work.
In short, being a dad is more important than being a geek, They'll learn about your work in time.
If this was under a YRO section, and not Politics, I'd almost guarantee that there would me more than 30+ commnets by now, and a larger readership. That readership could then effectively be mobolized to comment to the board. Weren't voting machines under YRO and not Politics? Judging by the number of comments, the number of readers has probably dropped too. While YRO and Politics are intertwined, if something was under YRO it should probably be left there, as people know where to find it.
Slashdotting the politicians is not bad. Live appearnces, followed by letters and phone calls, e-mail last in effectiveness, but for some it's better than what we can do. I know I won't have the chance to be one of the 12 for a given day, and would defer to someone who speaks better than I do anyway.
lmao. That is what I call a great guilt trip. Even if you're an athiest, it still would work since you know there is truth in the definition and harm of theft, even if the bible is just a story in your view. And if you're worried about athiests (or any non-Christian religion), you can always quote dictionary definition of theft.
I'm not sure how it worked, but the serial number was for the current version, so it may have phoned home, or it may have been a point release that fixed a minor bug and added the new serial number that the author found on the net. I'd say the act of registering shareware is a reasonable time to phone home and check for legit serial numbers.
I don't mind saving US$3,055 off 3DSMAX while being called a sissy whore + decreasing the size of my e-penis once a day.
This was a shareware author, so I don't think the pricetag of $3k was quite what they were charging. about $20 IIRC. We're not talking big developers here, remember?
The best anti-piracy serial number solution I've seen was one (I can't remember the program) that, when you entered a known pirated serial number, it said "You just entered a pirated serial number. I know I can't stop you, but I can sure make you feel guilty. You can use the program now withouth the nagging now, you cheap bastard" (Or similar, it's been a while.)
It worked. I decided to delete the program until I could convince work to buy it for me. (New job, so the copy stayed with them.) I've never looked at pirating serial numbers the same since. I try hard to get work to buy the smaller software companies stuff that I use, or I delete it, or look for freeware so at least I'm being cheap but without the guilt.
Because Infinium believes unwaveringly in naive consumers. They've based an entire business model on their existence.
So have spammers and 419ers, and SCOsource, as well as a number of other businesses. I seem to keep getting spam, phishers in my mailbox, and SCO is stil worth more than the paper it's written on. Repeat the mantra: "People are stupid."
INAPH, but I'm curious to experience the music. Since I live in BFE, I'm not likely to go to any perl hacking nightclubs (plus, married with 2 kinds, who am I kidding, I'm not going to any nightclubs).
I want to hear the music!
Talking about audio w/o at least a sample is like talking code w/o a Hello World at least. So some perl hacker out there want to take his code snippets and to the right thing and put a MIDI file up somewhere for us to listen to? mp3?
Don't make me get curious enough to dive into Perl for fun. I do too much coding at work, and I don't want to be a coder at home.
Applying logic to maximise your own gains would be very bad - that's why we have emotions
Heard of "The needs of the many out weight the need of the few"?
That's logic at work, not personal gain....or is it?
Both are not pure logic. Both depend upon a base decision that is emotional. Self-centered behavior may be logical, as can selfless behavior.
True wisdom would have to accept that either can be true, depending on the circumstances. Selfless to the point of allowing someone to beat you up may get you killed, or it may promote a revolution (ala Ghandi). Same with selfish behavior. It may allow you to live (running away from a fire fight) or it may get you killed (seeking glory on the battlefield, regardless of the danger).
Slashdot Mirror
This is the Apple section of slashdot. These sections are present for a reason. Apple policies wern't being discussed at all, but Infiniband policies. Given that drivers are now released for Infiniband for OSX, the question of what this brings to Apple Clusters is something relevant to be discussed here. The reason I would brand you a troll is that you're speaking negatatively about something that is not relevant to this section of /.: How linux clusters are effected by IP issues decided by Infinband. You have yet to frame this in terms of contrasting how their policies effect Linux and how Apple drivers are now released. If you had started that way, then perhaps I would have just watched the discussion.
/. at the appropriate time (when the content on LWN becomes publically available). I all but wrote the submission for you! That hardly sounds like I'm trying to keep you from discussing this at all. I've suggested broadening your audience even.
To say I don't want to hear what you have to say has been already been proven wrong, as I have suggested previously that you make such a discussion in the appropriate section of
Also to say I've made up my mind about Infiniband or Linux v. Apple clusters couldn't be further from the truth. I haven't said anything about what I prefer, what is best, or anything to indicate my opinion. In fact, I have no informed opinion on the subject at all, much less have I expressed one. As a matter of fact, what is my direct put down of Linux-based clusters? Any comment I made was that this is that clusters likely to look at Infiband are not small scale, hobbyist clusters, but more likely larger clusters with larger budgets, so if the specs are free or not will be less of a factor.
I'm sure my post put me on some terrorist list. Granted, I don't believe the Secret Service will take posting the President's address on the net as a threat (esp. since it's a copy and paste from whitehouse.gov), but I'm sure Ashcroft has someone parked outside right now. Maybe it will scare the neighborhood drug dealers while there sitting out there.
RELEASED THEM? Here this is on an article about wanting to avoid having things such as medical records get in the open, and you're implying he should release his medical records? If he's managed to get there w/o some journalist digging them up, or reconstructing the last 10 years of them, then so be it.
*Oh wait* I seem to remember his heart trouble recently making headlines. Yeah, I'm sure his medical history is nice and private....
Address:
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
202-456-1111
president@whitehouse.gov
Salary: $400,000
Health Data
And here's his attourney
Translation: For those living "in the public life," there is no expectation of privacy, so to expect those in public life to understand the motivation of those of us who appreciate privacy to keep it is like talking about being poor to someone who has been rich all their life: They just can't understand. Heck, the news media mentiones when the President has a physical. Some congressional districts probably do this for their representatives too. This is probably only one of the reasons privacy advocates have a hard time pleading their cause in the US.
Apple advocates constantly feel the need to point out in every other discussion about how much better Macintosh does everything.
/. and the OS of the drivers released, I'd say it brings something to the table.
Calling me an Apple advocate because I see announcement of OS X drivers for a product as unrelated to a discussion about compatability with open source projects is assuming too much. In fact I'm about as cross platform as someone can get. I personally use Linux, OS X and Windows for both work and home. The count of servers at work, where I'm a sysadmin, is 12 Linux, 6 Windows, and 1 Mac OS X server (not counting development servers). I use what bests gets the job done. Sound like a advocate to you?
I don't inject Apple topics into Linux discussions, and I don't appreciate others injecting Linux into Apple related discussions. It's as simple as that. If I was making the comment asking why someone is spouting about OS X in a Linux discussion, would that make you feel better? Usually, that comment is made by the time I read the posts, so I don't bother to say it again.
It certainly makes sense to ask the question of what those proprietary systems bring to the table.
No such question was asked. No question was asked at all. It sounded a lot like complaining about a company's policies in the wrong venue. I even suggested how to adress it in a larger, and more effective venue. If you want a discussion about what companies bring to the table, you don't start it by complaining about IP issues whe a company announces a driver release for a different platform. The post on what the latencies for a few interconnects I found to be the most useful of the discussion, and that is addressing the question that wasn't asked.
If you want to know what Infiniband brings to the table of Linux supercomputing, the answer may be nothing, for reasons cited. But for what it brings to OS X, the topic of the article, the section of
OK, the "proprietary crap" discussed here is for:
/.'s general section (where I would be more than happy to consider it not trolling), and enjoy a livelier discussion there, with a wider, and more appropriate, audience.
#1 XServes runing (wait for it....) Mac OS X.
#2 Supercomputers
This is not your linux box you're using for a NAT server, or a Beowolf running SETI, so if you're building a super computer or just like drolling over them and thinking of using and expensive interconnect like InfiniBand, you're not looking to compare it to Beowolf over gigabit, and possibly not likely to care about if the drivers are binary only or not.
This article is in no way related to any LKML posting other than it's the same company. This is about OSX Infiniband drivers. RTFA sometime, and you might realize such things.
Welcome to the Apple section. If you're not interested in discussion of things related to Apple, please uncheck the appropriate box in your preferences, and we will all be happier. If you like to run Linux on Apple Hardware, please examine the OS discussed before trolling.
If you want to troll about Infinbands policies effecting Linux, then wait until the LWN article is public ("Alternatively, this item will become freely available on October 21, 2004"), and submit it to
Your IP address has been logged, CNS Has been called, and Shrinity will be coming to get you shortly. ;)
Dell must be using those adaptors to run the servers the recall is being run from as http://www.delladapterprogram.com/ is giving a "Service Unavailable". Hope the fire department in Austin is ready for this...
In reply to myself, I have a friend who brought over his copy of Doom 3 last night and we did some benchmarking on my dual-boot system. As I mentioned I'm on the low end w/ 256 MB RAM. I also have an NVidia based MSI FX5900XT, with the NVidia supplied drivers for both OSs and an Athlon XP 2000+ (slightly overclocked). No over clocking on the video card for fairness sake (nvidia overclocking in linux in cvs only).
Windows XP SP2
Linux, FC2, with xorg recompiled w/ optimizations for athlon and other optimizations, etc. Running *only* twm (all daemons turned off).
highest score with timedemo demo1.demo:
windows: 39.1 fps
linux: 34.8 fps
Windows wins, though I suspect (as others here at work do) that the drivers for Windows gets more attention, and more optimization as a result. Also, the binary for Doom may be optimized for windows as well, though I find this much less likely, as ID has been supporting linux for sometime.
Well, I can't put the kids back where they came from, so yeah, I'm a gamer on a budget. Get used to the concept. It's called not living in your parent's basement. My 6 year old is turning into a gamer too, which allows some purchases, but playing Doom isn't (yet) one of them.
So enjoy your gig of RAM and know that the entire world does not have disposable income.
*sigh* price of doom = $60. Saved for doom = $30. Take $15 from $30 and I'm back to only having $15 for doom. Plus, $15 is not a price you can get locally here, so You'd have to add shipping so it'd be more like $20-30.
I spent the $200 gaming budget on getting a decent video card in the first place, so the closer I can get to actually *buying* the game, the better. The RAM I can pick up a paycheck or two after. No need to pick it up before. "Cheap" is relatative to how much you have to spend, and what you need to spend it on.
Comparing specs:
GNU/Linux system,
Pentium III, 1Ghz
256Mb RAM
English version of Microsoft® Windows® 2000/XP
Pentium® IV 1.5 GHz or Athlon® XP 1500+ processor or higher
384MB RAM
Sounds like Linux is supposed to perform on less. Since I'm on the low end w/ 256MB RAM (I know it's cheap, etc. but I'm still working on money for the game) and a Athlon XP 2000+, I'll have to see if I get better framerates w/ Linux than Windows. It might me help my buy it sooner if I can skip the RAM. Demo benchmarking time!
This goes against my nature to just say "me too" but I couldn't have said it better myself. Even if all Kerry had was a campaign ribbon, no Purple Hearts, and no Stars, and was a PFC loading boxes then it sure beats campaigning at home and not showing up for duty. I respect both the vets and the Guard members I've met (as all are pledged to put lives on the line), but being there is a far cry more service than not being anywhere. (AWOL may be the correct term, we don't have enough records, AFAIK, but we sure know he missed his physical he was ordered to show for.)
To question Kerry's service records is a straw man - Bush has no service record - correction, so he's actually missing a few of them. If that's your reason for not voting Kerry, or voting for Bush, then you are disrespecting all those who served in any capacity. If you can't get a real reason to vote for a candidate, maybe you should either examine the issues more, or just not vote. Look for the real issues, and pick a candidate based on those.
p.s. This applies no matter who you end up choosing to vote for - just have a good reason, cause we're going to have to live with the decision, so I hope it's based on some good reason, not some crap.
The PDA for my kids is whatever i've tossed off from an old purchase, but this might actually survive them (if they don't lose it first).
or my favorites:
Sun v. SCOX
RedHat v SCOX
Shal we add any other UNIX vendors in there (SCOX was^H^H^His a UNIX vendor afterall.) No other "pure" UNIX vendors come tom mind (HP sells too many PCs, same with IBM, etc.)
We could add Sun v Apple since they are both a hardware and an OS vendor (even BSD flavored now). I don't believe Terra Soft is listed, but we could compare there as well.
The 2 year timeline avoids stock splits, as Sun has two earlier ones.
Oh heck, let's go for Sun v. RHAT v. SCOX v. APPL v. MSFT for fun.
I read him the the question, and here is what my son said:
I want you to write a book. Not about you, but about a story. "How about dinousars, please?"
q:Do you want to learn about my work?
a: sure
q:Do you want to learn it from a book?
a: yes
q:Would you rather I wrote a book about work, or about a story?
a: a story about dinosaurs
q:so, how would you like to learn about my work?
a: going to work! (excited about this).
from my son: I hope you get my dad to teach me about it, and to try do do the same things at work, and I hope you have a great day, end it with a smile. If I ever come over to work, please have a great smile ready for me. I hope you have a fun day at work.
In short, being a dad is more important than being a geek, They'll learn about your work in time.
If this was under a YRO section, and not Politics, I'd almost guarantee that there would me more than 30+ commnets by now, and a larger readership. That readership could then effectively be mobolized to comment to the board. Weren't voting machines under YRO and not Politics? Judging by the number of comments, the number of readers has probably dropped too. While YRO and Politics are intertwined, if something was under YRO it should probably be left there, as people know where to find it.
Slashdotting the politicians is not bad. Live appearnces, followed by letters and phone calls, e-mail last in effectiveness, but for some it's better than what we can do. I know I won't have the chance to be one of the 12 for a given day, and would defer to someone who speaks better than I do anyway.
lmao. That is what I call a great guilt trip. Even if you're an athiest, it still would work since you know there is truth in the definition and harm of theft, even if the bible is just a story in your view. And if you're worried about athiests (or any non-Christian religion), you can always quote dictionary definition of theft.
I'm not sure how it worked, but the serial number was for the current version, so it may have phoned home, or it may have been a point release that fixed a minor bug and added the new serial number that the author found on the net. I'd say the act of registering shareware is a reasonable time to phone home and check for legit serial numbers.
I don't mind saving US$3,055 off 3DSMAX while being called a sissy whore + decreasing the size of my e-penis once a day.
This was a shareware author, so I don't think the pricetag of $3k was quite what they were charging. about $20 IIRC. We're not talking big developers here, remember?
The best anti-piracy serial number solution I've seen was one (I can't remember the program) that, when you entered a known pirated serial number, it said "You just entered a pirated serial number. I know I can't stop you, but I can sure make you feel guilty. You can use the program now withouth the nagging now, you cheap bastard" (Or similar, it's been a while.)
It worked. I decided to delete the program until I could convince work to buy it for me. (New job, so the copy stayed with them.) I've never looked at pirating serial numbers the same since. I try hard to get work to buy the smaller software companies stuff that I use, or I delete it, or look for freeware so at least I'm being cheap but without the guilt.
North Korea has invited diplomats to visit the blast site of what is reported tpo be a "deliberate detonation of a mountain" as part of a hydroelectric project.
The spectacular start of a big project fits with the date of the blast in N. Korea.
Nothing to see here, please move along...
Because Infinium believes unwaveringly in naive consumers. They've based an entire business model on their existence.
So have spammers and 419ers, and SCOsource, as well as a number of other businesses. I seem to keep getting spam, phishers in my mailbox, and SCO is stil worth more than the paper it's written on. Repeat the mantra: "People are stupid."
INAPH, but I'm curious to experience the music. Since I live in BFE, I'm not likely to go to any perl hacking nightclubs (plus, married with 2 kinds, who am I kidding, I'm not going to any nightclubs).
I want to hear the music!
Talking about audio w/o at least a sample is like talking code w/o a Hello World at least. So some perl hacker out there want to take his code snippets and to the right thing and put a MIDI file up somewhere for us to listen to? mp3?
Don't make me get curious enough to dive into Perl for fun. I do too much coding at work, and I don't want to be a coder at home.
Applying logic to maximise your own gains would be very bad - that's why we have emotions
Heard of "The needs of the many out weight the need of the few"?
That's logic at work, not personal gain....or is it?
Both are not pure logic. Both depend upon a base decision that is emotional. Self-centered behavior may be logical, as can selfless behavior.
True wisdom would have to accept that either can be true, depending on the circumstances. Selfless to the point of allowing someone to beat you up may get you killed, or it may promote a revolution (ala Ghandi). Same with selfish behavior. It may allow you to live (running away from a fire fight) or it may get you killed (seeking glory on the battlefield, regardless of the danger).