Arguing against IE back in the days made sense because it was a closed-source engine controlled by one company with monopolistic policies. Webkit is open source, anyone can implement it anywhere and anyhow they want. What else do you want? If you ask me, webkit could become the web standard itself, and as long as it's renewed every few years for new features(webkit2 is already in the works, btw), I wouldn't care. The only webkit related issue I can think of is the iOS gimped implementation, but that is more of an Apple problem than Webkit problem.
The extra distraction can be really useful, if done right. Imagine seeing a offscreen enemy approaching you from the side or a rushing zerg army from two screens to the north. I just hope this tech becomes an open standard/output method and gets delivered by some other companies and not only be a MS/Sony/Apple/Nintendo monopoly. It's already sucks that MS patented(or at least filled a patent) even though there are plenty of prior art.
Yeah just checked, sorry for the misinformation. I knew about the smaller vendors and independent artists selling high quality files as I use their services. Last time I checked Amazon and Apple(which are what I called "most music") was like 2~3 years ago and at least the albums I was looking for were 128kbps. Never went back. Still sucks that they don't use flac or alac given their resources.
This device is so niche that I'm pretty sure the only people developing apps for it are the maker itself and a small community of fans, both of which know the specs and limitations of the device they are targeting. It's not like there is a standard oven control protocol either so no need for compatibility between other similar devices either. And I'm definitely not running an oven app on my phone either(might consider it for my gaming PC though). Having Android in this oven is like having some form of linux on some washing machines or dvd players. It's there just because the maker though it would be easier to use an open source OS than to build one from scratch. Also, Android apps tend to be very backwards compatible, and you definitely won't be running anything intensive on an oven either.
Also quality, the best music you can get is either by pirating FLAC(or some other lossless format) from people that like to drink Grog and Rum or by buying a CD and ripping it. Recently I've seen a handful of independent artist selling 320kbps mp3s on their own websites but for 99% of the music your stuck 128kbps tops. Same thing for video. Recently 1080p streams and downloads are becoming common, but they are considerably compressed and artifacts are visible. Blurays (and sometimes even DVDs) have considerable better video quality. Not everybody cares about this extra quality, and we definitely don't need optical drives built in our computers, but having that external usb 3.0 bluray drive can be really helpful if you want the full experience. Also the bonuses and even the disc cases can serve to enrich the experience if done correctly.
they will need high precision controllers to stand any chance of not getting destroyed by much more proficient and accurate pc gamers with keyboards and mice. I will look forward to seeing how this developes.
That depends on the game, FPS is not the only genre out there. If its a fighter or a racing or a competitive SHMUP, I'm sure any noob using a dualshock can destroy a kb+m user.
Anyway, I hope they are really putting some though in the controller as well and actually have a original idea, because by reading that article I couldn't help but to think the only thing I saw was Gabe, when asked about input methods, criticizing standard motion controls(fair enough) and using cool words like "biometrics" to describe something that looks like it's going to be your standard modern game pad. At least they have a good portfolio so they deserve the benefit of doubt. Everything else, save for the biometrics stuff, sounded great, so I wish good luck for them, can't wait to see the final product.
I agree with you, but for entirely different reasons.
Seriously, do you think people WANT to phone quality graphics on a 60" TV? No, they don't even want to see it on a 15" laptop
False, see Nintendo users. After playing a little with the 3DS, I guarantee you millions of people don't care about graphics. The wii success is another proof. BTW, a Tegra 3 machine is capable of great graphics(better than anything on the wii). If Ouya can bring Infinite Blade iOS games for Android, that would be sufficient proof. The major problem with most iOS/Droid games is the lacking content and gameplay. Even then, lately I can say for sure there have been huge improvements in this areas as well, as android has taken most of my handheld gaming time(barely touch my PSP, vita and recently acquired 3DS anymore).
How many people with desktop computers or standard laptops do any of the things you said? Content creation has always been something for the 1% of the computer users. The only reason desktops where so popular in the 90s and laptops in the 00s is simple because there were no cheap tablets/smartphones yet. Most people just want to check their facebook/twitter, do some quick office work like school reports or taxes or just watch porn. But don't worry, content creation is not dead. Content creators will buy content creation tools. The existence of DSLR cameras, external sound boards, mixers, professional GPUs, pen tablets, 3D mouses, microcontroller programmers and the thousands of professional software tools for anything you can imagine are the proof that content creation is as alive as ever. Classical laptops and desktops will just shift in to this category as well.
Unfortunately I think it's the only estimation I think they got right. I'm yet to see a college curriculum that doesn't have at least an introductory course for Java. Most of the crappy universities only have java. And while it does not create the fastest and efficient binaries, the most beautiful code and it's advantages(in particular compile once, deploy everywhere) are exaggerated and not hold true always, it's not a bad option for lightweight apps, prototyping or SOME educational purposes.
Personally, the obvious flaw in that list is objective-C. iOS programming is popular but there is just no way it is number 3. PHP and javascript are also too low, those languages run the freaking WWW.
This technology may be expensive now(just like EVs) but in the end, as international standards, safety guidelines, sensor/actuations technology as well as suport technology envolves, this technology will become as common as automated transmission. Personally I like driving, but I hate "commuting". Driving for work, driving the same route every fucking day is boring and a big waste of time. I'd gladly have a robot to do that for me while I do something productive or fun or just sleep in the back seat.
Look in the past to take inspiration for the future, I guess.
The Apple may be more popular historically for being the first modern computer as it was the first to copy the Xerox GUI(and the fact they dominate the market nowadays helps too as the history is written by the winners), but if you ask me Amiga/Commodore had a much bigger impact in computing technology, in particular media and graphics. Hardware acceleration, true-color displays, hi-definition sound(including speech) and video playback, all almost a decade before anyone else. AmigaOS is also pretty damn advanced: true multi-tasking, full featured window system, multiple desktops, kickstart, all things that started with amiga.
Basically every thing we take for granted for a consumer computer nowadays basically started with Amiga. If you ask me MAC OS and Windows computers only became a decent substitute for an Amiga computer with the release of XP and OSX. My only regret is that even though my dad bought a Amiga computer for the family(he already had a windows 3.1 machine he hated), back in the 90s, I never really took the time to fully explore it and pretty much only booted it up for the games, which were the greatest of the its time. I had a SNES which I barely touched in favor of the Amiga.
same here. I still buy their Xperia phones as they actually get software updates, have decent internals, excellent screen and sound and the design is really good. Their earphones are the best handsdown. I like their PSMobile SDK and homebrew support on the vita, even though I don't own one and I respect them for at least trying to support Linux on their consoles(which I stop buying because I got tired of console gaming), something I can't say about MS and Nintendo. I really like their high tech lab prototypes and experimental technologies, too bad most of them never see the light of the day. But dammit when they want they can be the biggest assholes on earth. Some of their anti consumer practices make Steve Jobs and Bill Gates look like saints. They have the tech and resources to be one of the biggest players in the IT world and yet they've completely losing opportunities one after the other, either by being lazy or by screwing the core costumers. Dear sony, if you want to get out of this 7 year old financial red history just stop treating you costumers as terrorist threats and try to work for them and with them.
Just got the demo CD. Hopeless Masquerade is going to be the best 2D fighter this year.
BTW if anyone is interested in future PC games I highly recommend this blog. May not be perfect but it is light years ahead the (mostly)disgusting list in the summary.
I totally agree with you. Consoles may have some advantages(usability, optimization, hardware uniformness, etc...), but the disadvantages(licences, censorship, pricing, forced gimmicks, obsolesce) far outnumber them. Imagine if the film industry or the music industry worked liked the game industry. Imagine a world where in order to play disney movies you'd have to buy a disney movie console. To the hell with that world. As a gamer one of the things that really pisses me off is that I grew up with nintendo (and later sony) and I like their games a lot. In case of nintendo, their console hardware just suck. No matter how much I try I just can't convince myself to drop $200~300 on machines that only play a few selected games using some really old tech and have a few other uses. Same thing for sony. I'd love to play Uncharted and the PS3 God of War games as well as the tons of console exclusive third party games, and I think the Vita has some really good content(at least here in Japan). But, by buying a sony(or nintendo(and microsoft/sega/atari/bandai/polystation and even ouya)) console you're getting sucked into a walled garden more closed than anything that even Apple has developed yet. I just posted that comment because if sony wants to be an asshole at least be honest about it and do it right.
... but it's way beyond the time to let it go. I remember back in 2006~7 when all the good games(at least here in Japan) were still being released for the PS2 while the PS3 was left to gather dust.
Now sony only needs to kill the PSP too, as it is cannibalizing all the sales the vita could have and as well as dividing developers (some are scratching their game's vita versions in favor of the PSP and others are developing for both).
Sony should learn that no risk no return. Apple kills successful products all the time in favor of better versions(ipod classic -> iDevices; macbook -> macbook air). If sony wants to be the Japanese Apple they could learn a thing or two.
Well guess what: I can find Tegra 3 boards available right now Japanese only
Plus if you are a corporation you can buy chips and board design reference documentation directly from nvidia. It's not hard. Any corporation can do it.
Also, please, don't confuse devkit boards with final commercial products. They're professional tools made for engineers in very low quantities. Dev kits are VERY expensive because of that.
Anyway I'm leaving this obviously biased discussion. Getting tagged as troll for being realistic and exposing some facts while some guy gets tagged Informative for nothing? Just don't be surprised if the Ouya ends up in the same shelve as the "Polystation" or those chinese N64 controller/console things you see in crappy hotels all over the world.
Out of curiosity, why you said that?
Delivering a hardware is not a hard thing to do, specially if you have 7 million dollars in the bank and are using common commercial components(you can easily buy a Tegra 3 board).
I believe now they're probably customizing the Android OS for their proprietary needs and set upping their own appstore. Neither which really is that hard either.
In my opinion the real challenge hasn't even started yet: marketing the final product. If they can't convince developers to create exclusive content as well as convince the average consumer to buy the device they probably go down soon after the release. If sony is failing to successfully move the Vita out of the shelves even though it has the playstation brand, is homebrew friendly(PS Mobile SDK), has hardware comparable to the latest flagship smartphones and over 100 real games(almost a 1000 if you also count PSP and PS1 downloadable titles) due (mostly) to the insufficient marketing that they have right now, then the OUYA better be prepared.
Personally they still haven't convinced me to buy it instead of just plug in my Android phone to the TV. My japanese Xperia acro hd came with a charging dock. I can just put my phone on it and then connect it to the TV using a HDMI cable. For the controller a PS3, Wii pro controller, Wiimote or any of the dozens of bluetooth controllers for PC/Android work, Plus I can just use Google Play to buy the game which will work on any android device I own, instead of having yet another third party store to keep track and that will only be usable on one device.
Finally, on a completely different subject, how the hell is your post modded Informative? What new information did Xugumad add to the discussion?
By your logic then everybody who wants to do embedded programing should buy a freaking arduino.
If you know the basics of programing and electronics and the product developer has the necessary documentations available(datasheets and sample programs) it really doesn't matter what you use. Linux is the same linux. Electronics are the same electronics(Analog, SPI, UART, HDMI, etc). The Raspberry is decent but it has problems and limitations. I actually very recently got an ODROID-X2 board and most my knowledge from previously using a Tegra2 Toradex board was completely transferable. And if I have a problem I can't solve by myself, just looking at the info from other boards, including the Raspberry, is enough.
Slashdot Mirror
Arguing against IE back in the days made sense because it was a closed-source engine controlled by one company with monopolistic policies. Webkit is open source, anyone can implement it anywhere and anyhow they want. What else do you want? If you ask me, webkit could become the web standard itself, and as long as it's renewed every few years for new features(webkit2 is already in the works, btw), I wouldn't care. The only webkit related issue I can think of is the iOS gimped implementation, but that is more of an Apple problem than Webkit problem.
I think that is the storyline for Evangelion too.
The extra distraction can be really useful, if done right. Imagine seeing a offscreen enemy approaching you from the side or a rushing zerg army from two screens to the north.
I just hope this tech becomes an open standard/output method and gets delivered by some other companies and not only be a MS/Sony/Apple/Nintendo monopoly. It's already sucks that MS patented(or at least filled a patent) even though there are plenty of prior art.
Yeah just checked, sorry for the misinformation. I knew about the smaller vendors and independent artists selling high quality files as I use their services. Last time I checked Amazon and Apple(which are what I called "most music") was like 2~3 years ago and at least the albums I was looking for were 128kbps. Never went back. Still sucks that they don't use flac or alac given their resources.
This device is so niche that I'm pretty sure the only people developing apps for it are the maker itself and a small community of fans, both of which know the specs and limitations of the device they are targeting. It's not like there is a standard oven control protocol either so no need for compatibility between other similar devices either. And I'm definitely not running an oven app on my phone either(might consider it for my gaming PC though). Having Android in this oven is like having some form of linux on some washing machines or dvd players. It's there just because the maker though it would be easier to use an open source OS than to build one from scratch.
Also, Android apps tend to be very backwards compatible, and you definitely won't be running anything intensive on an oven either.
Also quality, the best music you can get is either by pirating FLAC(or some other lossless format) from people that like to drink Grog and Rum or by buying a CD and ripping it. Recently I've seen a handful of independent artist selling 320kbps mp3s on their own websites but for 99% of the music your stuck 128kbps tops. Same thing for video. Recently 1080p streams and downloads are becoming common, but they are considerably compressed and artifacts are visible. Blurays (and sometimes even DVDs) have considerable better video quality. Not everybody cares about this extra quality, and we definitely don't need optical drives built in our computers, but having that external usb 3.0 bluray drive can be really helpful if you want the full experience. Also the bonuses and even the disc cases can serve to enrich the experience if done correctly.
UNLESS it's a shmup with a very low speed of movement (think touhou focus mode).
THAT is exactly what I'm talking about.
they will need high precision controllers to stand any chance of not getting destroyed by much more proficient and accurate pc gamers with keyboards and mice. I will look forward to seeing how this developes.
That depends on the game, FPS is not the only genre out there. If its a fighter or a racing or a competitive SHMUP, I'm sure any noob using a dualshock can destroy a kb+m user.
Anyway, I hope they are really putting some though in the controller as well and actually have a original idea, because by reading that article I couldn't help but to think the only thing I saw was Gabe, when asked about input methods, criticizing standard motion controls(fair enough) and using cool words like "biometrics" to describe something that looks like it's going to be your standard modern game pad. At least they have a good portfolio so they deserve the benefit of doubt. Everything else, save for the biometrics stuff, sounded great, so I wish good luck for them, can't wait to see the final product.
I agree with you, but for entirely different reasons.
Seriously, do you think people WANT to phone quality graphics on a 60" TV? No, they don't even want to see it on a 15" laptop
False, see Nintendo users. After playing a little with the 3DS, I guarantee you millions of people don't care about graphics. The wii success is another proof. BTW, a Tegra 3 machine is capable of great graphics(better than anything on the wii). If Ouya can bring Infinite Blade iOS games for Android, that would be sufficient proof. The major problem with most iOS/Droid games is the lacking content and gameplay. Even then, lately I can say for sure there have been huge improvements in this areas as well, as android has taken most of my handheld gaming time(barely touch my PSP, vita and recently acquired 3DS anymore).
That is correct. That game app based on the Foxconn scandals is available on Google play(for at least a year) but was rejected from the Appstore.
How many people with desktop computers or standard laptops do any of the things you said? Content creation has always been something for the 1% of the computer users. The only reason desktops where so popular in the 90s and laptops in the 00s is simple because there were no cheap tablets/smartphones yet. Most people just want to check their facebook/twitter, do some quick office work like school reports or taxes or just watch porn.
But don't worry, content creation is not dead. Content creators will buy content creation tools. The existence of DSLR cameras, external sound boards, mixers, professional GPUs, pen tablets, 3D mouses, microcontroller programmers and the thousands of professional software tools for anything you can imagine are the proof that content creation is as alive as ever. Classical laptops and desktops will just shift in to this category as well.
Lego are the best adult toys.
Unfortunately I think it's the only estimation I think they got right. I'm yet to see a college curriculum that doesn't have at least an introductory course for Java. Most of the crappy universities only have java. And while it does not create the fastest and efficient binaries, the most beautiful code and it's advantages(in particular compile once, deploy everywhere) are exaggerated and not hold true always, it's not a bad option for lightweight apps, prototyping or SOME educational purposes.
Personally, the obvious flaw in that list is objective-C. iOS programming is popular but there is just no way it is number 3. PHP and javascript are also too low, those languages run the freaking WWW.
I wish I had mod points available right now. I LOVE this variation of the Carl Sagan quote.
This technology may be expensive now(just like EVs) but in the end, as international standards, safety guidelines, sensor/actuations technology as well as suport technology envolves, this technology will become as common as automated transmission. Personally I like driving, but I hate "commuting". Driving for work, driving the same route every fucking day is boring and a big waste of time. I'd gladly have a robot to do that for me while I do something productive or fun or just sleep in the back seat.
There are older computers running PowerPC and Nvidia chips. G5 Mac Pros and unpatched or hacked PS3s out of my head.
Look in the past to take inspiration for the future, I guess.
The Apple may be more popular historically for being the first modern computer as it was the first to copy the Xerox GUI(and the fact they dominate the market nowadays helps too as the history is written by the winners), but if you ask me Amiga/Commodore had a much bigger impact in computing technology, in particular media and graphics. Hardware acceleration, true-color displays, hi-definition sound(including speech) and video playback, all almost a decade before anyone else. AmigaOS is also pretty damn advanced: true multi-tasking, full featured window system, multiple desktops, kickstart, all things that started with amiga.
Basically every thing we take for granted for a consumer computer nowadays basically started with Amiga. If you ask me MAC OS and Windows computers only became a decent substitute for an Amiga computer with the release of XP and OSX. My only regret is that even though my dad bought a Amiga computer for the family(he already had a windows 3.1 machine he hated), back in the 90s, I never really took the time to fully explore it and pretty much only booted it up for the games, which were the greatest of the its time. I had a SNES which I barely touched in favor of the Amiga.
same here. I still buy their Xperia phones as they actually get software updates, have decent internals, excellent screen and sound and the design is really good. Their earphones are the best handsdown. I like their PSMobile SDK and homebrew support on the vita, even though I don't own one and I respect them for at least trying to support Linux on their consoles(which I stop buying because I got tired of console gaming), something I can't say about MS and Nintendo. I really like their high tech lab prototypes and experimental technologies, too bad most of them never see the light of the day. But dammit when they want they can be the biggest assholes on earth. Some of their anti consumer practices make Steve Jobs and Bill Gates look like saints. They have the tech and resources to be one of the biggest players in the IT world and yet they've completely losing opportunities one after the other, either by being lazy or by screwing the core costumers. Dear sony, if you want to get out of this 7 year old financial red history just stop treating you costumers as terrorist threats and try to work for them and with them.
Just got the demo CD. Hopeless Masquerade is going to be the best 2D fighter this year.
BTW if anyone is interested in future PC games I highly recommend this blog. May not be perfect but it is light years ahead the (mostly)disgusting list in the summary.
I totally agree with you. Consoles may have some advantages(usability, optimization, hardware uniformness, etc...), but the disadvantages(licences, censorship, pricing, forced gimmicks, obsolesce) far outnumber them. Imagine if the film industry or the music industry worked liked the game industry. Imagine a world where in order to play disney movies you'd have to buy a disney movie console. To the hell with that world. As a gamer one of the things that really pisses me off is that I grew up with nintendo (and later sony) and I like their games a lot. In case of nintendo, their console hardware just suck. No matter how much I try I just can't convince myself to drop $200~300 on machines that only play a few selected games using some really old tech and have a few other uses. Same thing for sony. I'd love to play Uncharted and the PS3 God of War games as well as the tons of console exclusive third party games, and I think the Vita has some really good content(at least here in Japan). But, by buying a sony(or nintendo(and microsoft/sega/atari/bandai/polystation and even ouya)) console you're getting sucked into a walled garden more closed than anything that even Apple has developed yet. I just posted that comment because if sony wants to be an asshole at least be honest about it and do it right.
... but it's way beyond the time to let it go. I remember back in 2006~7 when all the good games(at least here in Japan) were still being released for the PS2 while the PS3 was left to gather dust.
Now sony only needs to kill the PSP too, as it is cannibalizing all the sales the vita could have and as well as dividing developers (some are scratching their game's vita versions in favor of the PSP and others are developing for both).
Sony should learn that no risk no return. Apple kills successful products all the time in favor of better versions(ipod classic -> iDevices; macbook -> macbook air). If sony wants to be the Japanese Apple they could learn a thing or two.
Well guess what: I can find Tegra 3 boards available right now Japanese only
Plus if you are a corporation you can buy chips and board design reference documentation directly from nvidia. It's not hard. Any corporation can do it.
Also, please, don't confuse devkit boards with final commercial products. They're professional tools made for engineers in very low quantities. Dev kits are VERY expensive because of that.
Anyway I'm leaving this obviously biased discussion. Getting tagged as troll for being realistic and exposing some facts while some guy gets tagged Informative for nothing? Just don't be surprised if the Ouya ends up in the same shelve as the "Polystation" or those chinese N64 controller/console things you see in crappy hotels all over the world.
The big whoop is that it's a game console from kickstarter. That is it. It's trendy, people that don't know how to use money will buy it.
Out of curiosity, why you said that?
Delivering a hardware is not a hard thing to do, specially if you have 7 million dollars in the bank and are using common commercial components(you can easily buy a Tegra 3 board).
I believe now they're probably customizing the Android OS for their proprietary needs and set upping their own appstore. Neither which really is that hard either.
In my opinion the real challenge hasn't even started yet: marketing the final product. If they can't convince developers to create exclusive content as well as convince the average consumer to buy the device they probably go down soon after the release. If sony is failing to successfully move the Vita out of the shelves even though it has the playstation brand, is homebrew friendly(PS Mobile SDK), has hardware comparable to the latest flagship smartphones and over 100 real games(almost a 1000 if you also count PSP and PS1 downloadable titles) due (mostly) to the insufficient marketing that they have right now, then the OUYA better be prepared.
Personally they still haven't convinced me to buy it instead of just plug in my Android phone to the TV. My japanese Xperia acro hd came with a charging dock. I can just put my phone on it and then connect it to the TV using a HDMI cable. For the controller a PS3, Wii pro controller, Wiimote or any of the dozens of bluetooth controllers for PC/Android work, Plus I can just use Google Play to buy the game which will work on any android device I own, instead of having yet another third party store to keep track and that will only be usable on one device.
Finally, on a completely different subject, how the hell is your post modded Informative? What new information did Xugumad add to the discussion?
By your logic then everybody who wants to do embedded programing should buy a freaking arduino.
If you know the basics of programing and electronics and the product developer has the necessary documentations available(datasheets and sample programs) it really doesn't matter what you use. Linux is the same linux. Electronics are the same electronics(Analog, SPI, UART, HDMI, etc). The Raspberry is decent but it has problems and limitations. I actually very recently got an ODROID-X2 board and most my knowledge from previously using a Tegra2 Toradex board was completely transferable. And if I have a problem I can't solve by myself, just looking at the info from other boards, including the Raspberry, is enough.