Isn't this flamewar old enough for people to start ignoring it? Holy cow: the mySQL vs. postgres argument has been hashed and rehashed so long... isn't about time we realized that neither is a clear all-encompassing winner over the other?
You've listed the drawbacks with out touching on any of the advantages, and I think they're the reason many people are looking into development with PHP.
ASP & CF - Not free or open. The only reason I'd pick these is because I'm already locked in.
Ruby - Paradigm changing ideas and awesome framework, it doesn't seem like people are using Ruby for anything but rails. Availability on shared hosts is a issue here as well. Ruby is losing its draw to developers as more mature MVC flavored rapid development frameworks break onto the PHP scene.
JSP - Solid architecture, slooooow development cycle.
If I'm repressed because I'm not into porn, I suppose that's your opinion.
I highly doubt I'm attracted to someone at the office because of some lame porn scenario.
I think its a serious flaw in thinking when you somehow suppose that the things you see and think about all day have little to no effect on your actions.
Your suggestion of maritial porn is not very compelling.... Wow, that's [not so] hot.
It surely was no suggestion, and your comments only sustain my point. Real sexual relations are not always super hot - they're real. I'm not saying it isn't exciting, but porn portrays sex in a way that is a far cry from what sex is really like. This is why porn is so wierd, but its also why its so addictive.
Pornography functions as an alternative to fornication. And I'm talking about regular good old fashion hetero or homosexual adult (above 18) porn. Hardcopies (magazines and videos) of pornography seems risky. You have to store them and purchase them--they leave a paper trail. But internet pornography is accessible and can often be acquired for free. It doesn't leave such an obvious trail back to the user.
Bzzzzt. Porn serves as a gateway to fornication, continued self abuse, and in some cases prostitution patronage and rape. It all leads to a heavier form of abuse.
Porn trains you to rev your engines when you see an alluring visual. When you see a co-worker who dresses more provocatively, your mind will eventually be trained to reply with sexual fantasy. Some of the most common porn scenarios are office/repairman fantasies - why would these sort of fantasies not lead to the actual acts in some cases? Are there many married, healthy relationship porn materials? I think not.
Its not a replacement, its the invitation.
Porn also trains your sexual desires towards things that you can't really have. Let's get real. Women's bodies don't usually look like that, and the positions and techniques used in porn can't be that comfy. It's like WWF for sexuality. Scripted, fake bodies pretending to have a natural response.
When you can't have what you really want, you form an addition to this mental sort of drug, and it can even lead to paying for other people to gratify these unnatural desires (through plastic surgery or prostitution), or trying to force or trick others into your fantasy (rape, voyeurism, etc).
Its crafted to get your cash. People put it together to make you want more of what you can't have: so you buy more. Wash, rinse, repeat, profit. Porn is merely the tobacco industry of the new millenia.
No, I think this is a great question to ask: regardless of language (and hype), a framwork - at least for me - has to help me with the following:
- DRY: I hate re-inventing the wheel everytime I pick up a new project. Not repeating yourself in intra- application code and inter-application code is a must.
- Rapid Application Development: if the framework is saving me time and speeding up the iterative development process, its a go. If I'm stuck trying to stay with in a structure or conform to someone else's standards, its out.
- Convention over configuration: I personally hate mappings, defines, configurations...etc. Hopefully the framework has an intuitive naming/coding convention that gets me free functionality.
-- J
Other PHP Framework Projects are much more Mature
on
Klorofil 0.2 Released
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
The problem which stays, and which I could have put more clear in my initial statement is that at a certain moment, the forbidding parent disappears, and the young adult, who is still very easy to influence, will get in contact with the material. Now it happens by accident, which gives the parent the possibility to act on that and educate the kid
Maybe we're in basic agreement, then.
I agree that you can't (and shouldn't) try to shield them from anything that harms, but I think it is a duty to keep them from the long-term-damaging stuff (like gore and porn). A few of my friends have turned to home-schooling to acheive the protection they are looking for, but I agree with you in that they will have very, very low defenses when they hit college.
Laws like the ones proposed seem to be keeping explicit violence and sexual material away from minors. That stuff, in general, leaves images on the mind that are disturbing and addicting - and I believe them to be very damaging. If we use laws like these (in principle, not necessarily in practice) to keep mainstream media in the realm of the mild, it allows accidents to be far less damaging and easy to correct.
So next time when you think of forbidding something because it is bad, maybe you should allow it and educate on it.
My experience has been that sometimes its just the exposure that is damaging. I have a three year old, and sometimes its just the viewing or introduction to a concept that seems to be the damaging element in the experience. IMHO, parents are around to prevent those sort of experiences if they can.
The other problem is that children don't often fully understand the moral weight of a certain action. I remember letting my little boy watch 15 minutes of Star Wars one night. He hacked and slashed and dropped dead all the next day. All of you might not care about that, but I didn't really like it. It was the exposure to the violence that prompted it, and could have been avoided.
Sexual images are especially potent - and I can recall disturbing or graphic images I've stumbled upon decades ago. I just think that some experiences are damaging in the long term and can be avoided. How many of you are glad you experienced goatse, and now realize the moral weight and shock (supposing of course, you didn't enjoy the image...)?
Adults have an easier time rebounding, and as children grow, I think you're right, though.
These sort of laws seem kinda common sense to me (don't let kids view porn or gore), and I don't see why the editors get their collective panties in a ruffle when some congressman (as misguided as some of the attempts are) try to pass things like this. You can give me the slippery-slope- or government-is-no-parent arguments, but I think the basic principle they are after is great and helpful to society. Well written laws that complete this sort of objective are extremely beneficial to society in my view.
"For example, you may dress as a pirate, a knight in shining armor or any other of the amazing combinations they offer. The frilly pirate shirt will act just as well as the armor for protection. Obviously, this sacrifices realism, but it ensures that players get to look how they want and still effectively play the game."
Somehow I think this thinking is a little flawed, especially if there is any sort of PVP... which isn't always 'fun.' For example, I want to look like a kick-butt world-owning mega warrior when I'm really a level nothing mage. Real is sometimes better, especially when real = believable.
On the other hand, it really stinks to build up your super awesome frilly-pirate-shirt wearing character, only to have him permantly eliminated by the first baddie he happens to fall into. (which is probably more real)
I think that the storytelling abilities text-based players have will aid this company but their who-cares-what-it-looks-like attitude probably comes from the same place.
There's got to be a better balance, at least for me...
But hopefully they'll get up off their lazy butts and get to work.
How old is IE? Wonder if the recent Firefox buzz hasn't got them back in the shop feverishly working on IE 7. Wonder if many of the feature in the said browser won't mimic those found in Firefox (opera, safari, etc...)
How old is XP? Wonder if the recent Jaguar/Panther/Tiger buzz hasn't got them in the shop.... (you get the idea).
I hope we can keep them lumbering for a few more years. It would sure be nice to see them either start to *really* innovate or throw in the towel.
If you make them lose money long enough, it doesn't matter how much they have in the war-chest: like any good capatalist, they'll pull out when they realize its not growing anymore.
One thing we are doing for an office I work with is doing a Pilot test.
We're going to give out customized Knoppix CD's to personnel, and ask them to check out the software, and use a web survey (the home page for the browser on the CD) to give us feedback about their experiences.
I'm all for moving some of our vanilla workstations to OO/Linux, but I think its best to get a good idea of user feedback before making the jump.
Then, when any concerns come up, we'll have data to back us up. The cost facet of making the switch is simple to argue - its generating a solid argument for user performance that is really the issue....
There's no way schmucks like you are ever going to hear my music unless I "sell my soul" to the record industry, because I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on marketing and promotion.
Give me five bucks and I'll post some of your tunes on a web site. I think there is a market full of people who are tired of CD block-buying and DRM dodging, who take music for face value.
If you build it they will come
Laugh if you want, but little independent bands can go far, especially if they already have fans in the community. Word of mouth can get your tunes cross-community, and may give you the break you want.
Sure, we're all practical, but it would be nice if someone with a little passion could find a different way to make this happen.
After moving away from Java, I couldn't be more pleased with the flexibility in PHP for web development and even shell script replacement.
It's concise (none of this System.out.println.pretty.please() funny business), the documentation is stellar, it plays nice with many different technologies, and I don't have to objectify and type-cast anything I don't want to. PHP 5 has all the object love and forced typing I need - and the great part about it is that its there if I need it. PHP also has a extension repository PEAR, and a slick templating engine, Smarty.
Sure, it 'lends itself to coding flaws', but it also lends itself to flexible web development and very quick development cycles.
Just because you put your code monkeys in front of Visual Studio or Eclipse *does not make the code any cleaner.* You can't force people to write clean code (which IMHO is an art). More 'structured' languages might even cause dummies to write even more workaround code. And while OOP is really great, I've seen folks who objectify projects into oblivion.
Don't buy in on broad-generalizations like the parent and check PHP out. PHP is on the up, and IBM (along with many others) are noticing.
Agreed, but the problem is that if it lives and only takes up less than 5% market, it might as be dead anyway.
What we need is a serious contender to keep all mainstream browsers standards compliant and secure (not to mention keeping up will cool bells-and-whistles features like tabs and RSS).
Here's hopin, though - I think we've got a winner too, but only time will tell.
1. IE7 Ends up being pretty decent with tabbed browsing, increased security, and some sort of nifty integration with other MS stuff. 2. Firefox 'market share' continues to increase, but begins to lose footing as MS begins to focus on IE once again. 3. Browser battle ensues for all of a year and a half. 4. The 600 lb gorilla continues to pour part of its billions into marketing, automatically including with its OS, etc., etc. 5. Firefox hangs up its towel after a long hard battle. The general populous wins for a time, however, because IE and the last version of Firefox are what everyone needs. 6. MS neatly places all of their IE developers back in cryogen, to wait until the browser monoply is again challenged. 7. IE rots like a dead dog until another browser project starts up and begins to gain ground. The general populous loses. 8. Goto Step 1.
Haven't we all seen this story before? I *really* hope that someone else takes a strong enough hold to keep everyone in competition, but the way the Netscape dynasty played out, things aren't looking good.
Its putting me through school. My on-campus job limits my hours and pays me next to nothing for decent quality web stuff, but other people will pay decent money for a great job. If your a good programmer/artist, go for it. I'd say that nearly a third of my income comes in the form of random websites.
I've found that the university is a great place to do web dev stuff because almost everyone has some sort of idea or project they are working on. Do some good work, and people will refer you like crazy.
Besides, it's great practice for work you'll likely do later on (that is, if you really like web development).
There is more than the popluar vote that matters. If you don't know what that is, you need to read up on it.
Fair is fair when its an approved system that has worked for the peaceful transfer of power in a powerful nation for centuries. You are welcome to work to change it, though. That said, sorry, but Bush should have been elected. Its the world we live in. It's the process we've all approved for all this time, and at no point in history has the people disliked it enough to really get rid of it.
There's nothing the law can do against uninformed conservative religious hick voters supporting Bush and blindly as their religion.
Spewing out broad fallacious generalizations like this only make your position and your arguments seem weaker. Doesn't it seem that when you classify over half of america this way, you prove to us your own blindness?
How would the American people be able to respect him if he took back his concession - and concession speech - just so he could take office?
Once you've lost, trying to win after that is a lose-lose situation:(remember Gore?) If you win, a lot of people will still view you as the whiny kid who had to get his way. If you lose, you've now lost twice.
Slashdot Mirror
Isn't this flamewar old enough for people to start ignoring it? Holy cow: the mySQL vs. postgres argument has been hashed and rehashed so long... isn't about time we realized that neither is a clear all-encompassing winner over the other?
You've listed the drawbacks with out touching on any of the advantages, and I think they're the reason many people are looking into development with PHP.
ASP & CF - Not free or open. The only reason I'd pick these is because I'm already locked in.
Ruby - Paradigm changing ideas and awesome framework, it doesn't seem like people are using Ruby for anything but rails. Availability on shared hosts is a issue here as well. Ruby is losing its draw to developers as more mature MVC flavored rapid development frameworks break onto the PHP scene.
JSP - Solid architecture, slooooow development cycle.
There's more to PHP than just ubiquity.
If I'm repressed because I'm not into porn, I suppose that's your opinion.
... Wow, that's [not so] hot.
I highly doubt I'm attracted to someone at the office because of some lame porn scenario.
I think its a serious flaw in thinking when you somehow suppose that the things you see and think about all day have little to no effect on your actions.
Your suggestion of maritial porn is not very compelling.
It surely was no suggestion, and your comments only sustain my point. Real sexual relations are not always super hot - they're real. I'm not saying it isn't exciting, but porn portrays sex in a way that is a far cry from what sex is really like. This is why porn is so wierd, but its also why its so addictive.
Pornography functions as an alternative to fornication. And I'm talking about regular good old fashion hetero or homosexual adult (above 18) porn. Hardcopies (magazines and videos) of pornography seems risky. You have to store them and purchase them--they leave a paper trail. But internet pornography is accessible and can often be acquired for free. It doesn't leave such an obvious trail back to the user.
Bzzzzt. Porn serves as a gateway to fornication, continued self abuse, and in some cases prostitution patronage and rape. It all leads to a heavier form of abuse.
Porn trains you to rev your engines when you see an alluring visual. When you see a co-worker who dresses more provocatively, your mind will eventually be trained to reply with sexual fantasy. Some of the most common porn scenarios are office/repairman fantasies - why would these sort of fantasies not lead to the actual acts in some cases? Are there many married, healthy relationship porn materials? I think not.
Its not a replacement, its the invitation.
Porn also trains your sexual desires towards things that you can't really have. Let's get real. Women's bodies don't usually look like that, and the positions and techniques used in porn can't be that comfy. It's like WWF for sexuality. Scripted, fake bodies pretending to have a natural response.
When you can't have what you really want, you form an addition to this mental sort of drug, and it can even lead to paying for other people to gratify these unnatural desires (through plastic surgery or prostitution), or trying to force or trick others into your fantasy (rape, voyeurism, etc).
Its crafted to get your cash. People put it together to make you want more of what you can't have: so you buy more. Wash, rinse, repeat, profit. Porn is merely the tobacco industry of the new millenia.
-- J
No, I think this is a great question to ask: regardless of language (and hype), a framwork - at least for me - has to help me with the following:
- DRY: I hate re-inventing the wheel everytime I pick up a new project. Not repeating yourself in intra- application code and inter-application code is a must.
- Rapid Application Development: if the framework is saving me time and speeding up the iterative development process, its a go. If I'm stuck trying to stay with in a structure or conform to someone else's standards, its out.
- Convention over configuration: I personally hate mappings, defines, configurations...etc. Hopefully the framework has an intuitive naming/coding convention that gets me free functionality.
-- J
CakePHP, for example.
s ign-the-logo-methinks ;)
Why is this getting press? Maybe cause they say 'platform', 'enterprise', and 'scalability' too many times in a single paragraph.
Oh, and Jon Hicks called. He wants his logo back.
http://www.hicksdesign.co.uk/journal/time-to-rede
The problem which stays, and which I could have put more clear in my initial statement is that at a certain moment, the forbidding parent disappears, and the young adult, who is still very easy to influence, will get in contact with the material. Now it happens by accident, which gives the parent the possibility to act on that and educate the kid
Maybe we're in basic agreement, then.
I agree that you can't (and shouldn't) try to shield them from anything that harms, but I think it is a duty to keep them from the long-term-damaging stuff (like gore and porn). A few of my friends have turned to home-schooling to acheive the protection they are looking for, but I agree with you in that they will have very, very low defenses when they hit college.
Laws like the ones proposed seem to be keeping explicit violence and sexual material away from minors. That stuff, in general, leaves images on the mind that are disturbing and addicting - and I believe them to be very damaging. If we use laws like these (in principle, not necessarily in practice) to keep mainstream media in the realm of the mild, it allows accidents to be far less damaging and easy to correct.
So next time when you think of forbidding something because it is bad, maybe you should allow it and educate on it.
:/
My experience has been that sometimes its just the exposure that is damaging. I have a three year old, and sometimes its just the viewing or introduction to a concept that seems to be the damaging element in the experience. IMHO, parents are around to prevent those sort of experiences if they can.
The other problem is that children don't often fully understand the moral weight of a certain action. I remember letting my little boy watch 15 minutes of Star Wars one night. He hacked and slashed and dropped dead all the next day. All of you might not care about that, but I didn't really like it. It was the exposure to the violence that prompted it, and could have been avoided.
Sexual images are especially potent - and I can recall disturbing or graphic images I've stumbled upon decades ago. I just think that some experiences are damaging in the long term and can be avoided. How many of you are glad you experienced goatse, and now realize the moral weight and shock (supposing of course, you didn't enjoy the image...)?
Adults have an easier time rebounding, and as children grow, I think you're right, though.
These sort of laws seem kinda common sense to me (don't let kids view porn or gore), and I don't see why the editors get their collective panties in a ruffle when some congressman (as misguided as some of the attempts are) try to pass things like this. You can give me the slippery-slope- or government-is-no-parent arguments, but I think the basic principle they are after is great and helpful to society. Well written laws that complete this sort of objective are extremely beneficial to society in my view.
http://oghc.blogspot.com/
From one review:
"For example, you may dress as a pirate, a knight in shining armor or any other of the amazing combinations they offer. The frilly pirate shirt will act just as well as the armor for protection. Obviously, this sacrifices realism, but it ensures that players get to look how they want and still effectively play the game."
Somehow I think this thinking is a little flawed, especially if there is any sort of PVP... which isn't always 'fun.' For example, I want to look like a kick-butt world-owning mega warrior when I'm really a level nothing mage. Real is sometimes better, especially when real = believable.
On the other hand, it really stinks to build up your super awesome frilly-pirate-shirt wearing character, only to have him permantly eliminated by the first baddie he happens to fall into. (which is probably more real)
I think that the storytelling abilities text-based players have will aid this company but their who-cares-what-it-looks-like attitude probably comes from the same place.
There's got to be a better balance, at least for me...
It *is* the any key.
But hopefully they'll get up off their lazy butts and get to work.
How old is IE? Wonder if the recent Firefox buzz hasn't got them back in the shop feverishly working on IE 7. Wonder if many of the feature in the said browser won't mimic those found in Firefox (opera, safari, etc...)
How old is XP? Wonder if the recent Jaguar/Panther/Tiger buzz hasn't got them in the shop.... (you get the idea).
I hope we can keep them lumbering for a few more years. It would sure be nice to see them either start to *really* innovate or throw in the towel.
If you make them lose money long enough, it doesn't matter how much they have in the war-chest: like any good capatalist, they'll pull out when they realize its not growing anymore.
One thing we are doing for an office I work with is doing a Pilot test.
We're going to give out customized Knoppix CD's to personnel, and ask them to check out the software, and use a web survey (the home page for the browser on the CD) to give us feedback about their experiences.
I'm all for moving some of our vanilla workstations to OO/Linux, but I think its best to get a good idea of user feedback before making the jump.
Then, when any concerns come up, we'll have data to back us up. The cost facet of making the switch is simple to argue - its generating a solid argument for user performance that is really the issue....
Best of luck!
--J
There's no way schmucks like you are ever going to hear my music unless I "sell my soul" to the record industry, because I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on marketing and promotion.
Give me five bucks and I'll post some of your tunes on a web site. I think there is a market full of people who are tired of CD block-buying and DRM dodging, who take music for face value.
If you build it they will come
Laugh if you want, but little independent bands can go far, especially if they already have fans in the community. Word of mouth can get your tunes cross-community, and may give you the break you want.
Sure, we're all practical, but it would be nice if someone with a little passion could find a different way to make this happen.
I like Ruby some.... but nearly no one uses it, and the documentation I found was severely lacking. Same with Python.
After moving away from Java, I couldn't be more pleased with the flexibility in PHP for web development and even shell script replacement.
It's concise (none of this System.out.println.pretty.please() funny business), the documentation is stellar, it plays nice with many different technologies, and I don't have to objectify and type-cast anything I don't want to. PHP 5 has all the object love and forced typing I need - and the great part about it is that its there if I need it. PHP also has a extension repository PEAR, and a slick templating engine, Smarty.
Sure, it 'lends itself to coding flaws', but it also lends itself to flexible web development and very quick development cycles.
Just because you put your code monkeys in front of Visual Studio or Eclipse *does not make the code any cleaner.* You can't force people to write clean code (which IMHO is an art). More 'structured' languages might even cause dummies to write even more workaround code. And while OOP is really great, I've seen folks who objectify projects into oblivion.
Don't buy in on broad-generalizations like the parent and check PHP out. PHP is on the up, and IBM (along with many others) are noticing.
Please tell me that they will doing this via in-game avatars advertising for real-world products.
Nothing would please me more than to make it my personal mission to hunt down each one of these characters and nuke the ever-loving tar out of them.
Imagine the sheer joy of being part of a AdPK guild.
Agreed, but the problem is that if it lives and only takes up less than 5% market, it might as be dead anyway.
What we need is a serious contender to keep all mainstream browsers standards compliant and secure (not to mention keeping up will cool bells-and-whistles features like tabs and RSS).
Here's hopin, though - I think we've got a winner too, but only time will tell.
Here's my prediction:
1. IE7 Ends up being pretty decent with tabbed browsing, increased security, and some sort of nifty integration with other MS stuff.
2. Firefox 'market share' continues to increase, but begins to lose footing as MS begins to focus on IE once again.
3. Browser battle ensues for all of a year and a half.
4. The 600 lb gorilla continues to pour part of its billions into marketing, automatically including with its OS, etc., etc.
5. Firefox hangs up its towel after a long hard battle. The general populous wins for a time, however, because IE and the last version of Firefox are what everyone needs.
6. MS neatly places all of their IE developers back in cryogen, to wait until the browser monoply is again challenged.
7. IE rots like a dead dog until another browser project starts up and begins to gain ground. The general populous loses.
8. Goto Step 1.
Haven't we all seen this story before? I *really* hope that someone else takes a strong enough hold to keep everyone in competition, but the way the Netscape dynasty played out, things aren't looking good.
You can do it Firefox!
TV out is easy, and for only about $20.
What I'd like to see is a better audio out option. This thing could make a sweet HTPC. Or HTMac as it were.
I wonder if it uses XMLHttpRequest.
I've seen blogs with this sort of live-search functionality. It's a really great way to quicken access, and its reasonably cross-platform/browser.
I'd try to figure it out, but
Its putting me through school. My on-campus job limits my hours and pays me next to nothing for decent quality web stuff, but other people will pay decent money for a great job. If your a good programmer/artist, go for it. I'd say that nearly a third of my income comes in the form of random websites.
I've found that the university is a great place to do web dev stuff because almost everyone has some sort of idea or project they are working on. Do some good work, and people will refer you like crazy.
Besides, it's great practice for work you'll likely do later on (that is, if you really like web development).
There is more than the popluar vote that matters. If you don't know what that is, you need to read up on it.
Fair is fair when its an approved system that has worked for the peaceful transfer of power in a powerful nation for centuries. You are welcome to work to change it, though. That said, sorry, but Bush should have been elected. Its the world we live in. It's the process we've all approved for all this time, and at no point in history has the people disliked it enough to really get rid of it.
There's nothing the law can do against uninformed conservative religious hick voters supporting Bush and blindly as their religion.
Spewing out broad fallacious generalizations like this only make your position and your arguments seem weaker. Doesn't it seem that when you classify over half of america this way, you prove to us your own blindness?
Maybe it's not *technically* over, but its over.
How would the American people be able to respect him if he took back his concession - and concession speech - just so he could take office?
Once you've lost, trying to win after that is a lose-lose situation:(remember Gore?) If you win, a lot of people will still view you as the whiny kid who had to get his way. If you lose, you've now lost twice.