Re:haveing trouble installing..
on
BeOS For Linux!
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· Score: 1
huh, I just put it in/home/beos and it worked. BeOS does not know/care what ext2 is your/, so long as only one has a beos directory in it. No symlinks needed, and in fact make no sense to beos. BeOS simply scans each ext2 for a beos directory, and when found tries to use that.
Umm, excuse me? They are going to package windows as a client OS inside their *linux* product. Why install windows inside windows? They've had their windows product a long while and already have (IIRC) a deal with Redhat to package Redhat with vmware, so that NT users can install linux under vmware, this just turns it around, to sell pre-capsulated windows with vmware for linux
Find it funny that slashdot had the story as "BeOS 5.0 available for free" Before Be released it, and then, to make up for the mistake, changed it to "BeOS 5.0 avaialble for free - But Not Yet" Pretty much at the same time it *did* become available, therefore making the story incorrect again?:)
At least they are also offering linux capability too..but even then, witht he current offerings it looks like I won't be taking a Free Be CD and installing it directly on a un-initialized system.. Oh well, I wonder how much BeOS 5 will cost me for a *real* version.. I bought BeOS 4, and got 4.5 for free, but they probably won't do that again:)
Stuck my foot in my mouth, it does require windows to install, at least according to the readme, and is also limited to 512 meg partition for it's "root" though can mount other partitions to use.. The free version is much more crippled then Be had led everyone to believe. But I guess the wording of the FAQ could have gone either way. I'm still curious about the BeOS4Linux.tar.gz file, anyone tried it, I can't get in to download off of any mirror... In any case I wish they had/will release an ISO with fewer limitations.. I can understand leaving out the royalty-laden stuff and leaving out a few features, but if they want to claim a free, fully-functional O/S it should in no way depend on any other O/S for anything and should not be limited to 512 megs, such a restriction truly makes freebe "crippleware". In any case, BeOS itself is great, I still have 4.5.2, and looks like I'll have to stick with it for now.
Nope, can still be repartitioned, the FAQ just puts too much stress on the loopback install capability. They say in the faq, "*IF* I install.. within windows, will performance suffer.." BeOS has always been standalone.. And the Pro edition only bundles more software, not enable standalone, as near as I can tell.
No No No.. All wrong.. it says "within other operating systems" IT runs, as it always has, independently. All it does inside windows it put a loadlin-like program and a loopback BFS filesystem as a file and takes over, it is in no way dependent, nor has it ever been on windows.
BEOS is a full operating system. When you install it into the windows partition, it is simply a loopback BFS filesystem, and does a "loadlin"-like function and basically takes over.. Main attraction is avoiding repartitioning.
I personally do basic installs and compile most things from source, trying to keep them up to date, but I can only pay attention to so much. It's nice to upgrade to a new version of a distribution simply because it covers all the bases you don't have the time to cover. You could watch freshmeat, but things are posted so fast, it takes a bit of effort just to keep up. Aside from covering the bases, having prepackaged distributions allow software distributers to package pre-compiled (or source files) for standard, expected sets of libraries, allowing for the most painless installs/compiles. And probably the most important point is that many newcomers don't upgrade on a package by package basis and NEED everything nice and packaged before they upgrade.
On a slightly tangent point, I hate rpm too, does any distribution have a really good packaging system? I like to both compile from source and install to separate directories for larger programs, yet not get my path all mangled. I like tar balls and stow, but some programs aren't nice and put things where they don't belong anyway, so some files may belong to an unknown packge, because it is not RPM, and it is not in a stow tree (which makes me mad...)
Shortage of people trying to be in IT fields? No. Shortage of *talented* people in IT? Yes. Not long ago I was a Teaching Assistant for a computer science class for computer science majors only. The class was full of people, but most of them were very much not adept nor interested in the material, but instead in the big bucks they keep hearing about. Sometime you'll try to tell people in the most informative way about the issues involved in a certain problem and point them in the right direction, but they will only give you blank looks and want to know exactly how to solve the particular problem at hand without thinking about it. There are talented ones, and there are the ones willing to try to think for themselves, but far too many just want the answers handed to them on a silver platter. Everytime I delt with studens like that I felt bad that computer science was just the pot of gold for so many people...
On another note, people keep talking about people not paying the right amount of money for IT people, but I want to know what *is* a good 'going rate' for starting salries.. I had a couple of offers and am now working with one company for an ok sum, but don't know how to compare it with the average. Anyone know statistics for various areas or know where I can find these statistics?
And releasing movies on VHS give them magic copy-protection? I know that VHS doesn't do exact copies, but second generation copies are pretty much indistinguishable from first gen, and can be captured and distributed by anyone with video capture equipment. Sure, there is some sort of unreasonable thinking that digital copies can ruin the MPAA, but the truth is it may damage, but it won't be devastating.
Computer programs, audio Tapes, VHS tapes, CD audio are copied all the time (computer programs and CD audio are copied perfectly thanks to digital), but the legitimate Gaming industry nor the Music Industries have been brought to ruin by these occurances.
Copying is bad, but it is not right to outlaw DeCSS because there are too many fair use issues. Would it be right to declare CD burners illegal because they can be used for illegitimate purposes? Of course not, and we have seen the same thing in video game emulation cases. The courts have up until now upheld "fair use" and produced a reasonable response to the companies seeking action. This response has been telling them to chase after the people known to be doing the copying because those are the people breaking the law, not the people programming the emulators.
Of course, it is sad that this case may very well see the overturn of this common sense. I personally don't really care about the DeCSS product, as I have a dxr2 board to play my movies, but the principles involved concerns me greatly.
Am I the only one not even able to get it to start? I got an AGP Voodoo3 2000 recently from someone I knew, XFree 3.3.5 worked fine, then I try to start XFree 4.0 (compiled from source, and using XFree's binaries) and all I get is "Unresolved function called" and it crashes. 3.9.18 worked fine on my Riva 128 but haven't got to ever try my Voodoo3 in XFree, ironic as how it is one of the supposedly best supported cards.
Well, there is mtv (http://www.mpegtv.com) (which is NOT btw, by Loki, they do the smpeg library). If you have a creative dxr2 board, go to opensource.creative.com and get dxr2 drivers, those are cool. But if you don't want a commercial solution and do not have the hardware, there is Xtheater at http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jbjohns4/Xtheater/ The main site is down but will be back up on Sunday, but the latest version should be there anyway. Of course, there is also kmpg 0.5.4 if you have KDE, do a freshmeat search for it's location.
People trying to compile and install from source are invariably going to have missing files, too many things Error and fail out, but regardless make World will keep going and going instead of stopping. I personally had five critical errors that I had to search the build log for, trudge through the source and hack it into submission:) Got it all to build, now all I need is to go home and try it:)
Well, I would have pointed out something like the wheel or fire, saying that about Linux doesn't quite work.
x86 architecture is still crippled by things such as the segmentation they have, little endianess, complex instruction set, etc.. In order to maintain compatibility whilst simlutaneuosly adding more power, they must bend over backwards to make the chip run orginal 64k-limited code, and take advantage of Gigs of RAM too... If you look at the flow chart for any modern x86 processors handling of instructions, its pretty convoluted because of all the contingencies that need be made. As a Computer archicteure professor once said to a class I took "It's like buying a brand new Ferrarri and needing to stick a crank in the front of the engine to start it".
Linux, on the other hand, in no ways tries to be able to run old programs from older UNIX implementations, only takes the concepts that were good and implemented any way they felt like. Even between versions of Linux, they are not afraid to completely scrap comatibility. Source level APIs in the kernel, glibc, etc Change between major releases, completely ignoring older apps, and requireing that programs be slightly rewritten to run on newer software. This lack of fear to change APIs, and occasionally rewrite projects entirely from scratch is both a pain to developers but also the main reason why Linux does so well at general OS stuff (as opposed to Windows, which have had to build and buil and build on top of the same code base, introducing many bugs, and worrying so much about backwards compatibility that strange tricks need be done to avoid breaking old apps).
I've seen several comparisons with other systems on various basis. One is that the clock speed is higher than the other systems, so it must be faster. Unfortunately, this thinking is BS. It is x86 architecture, and x86 based-chips are well-known for inefficiency with respect to clock. Clock speed and MIPS are meaningless across different architectures, and I'll wager 600MHz is beat out by the RISC competition.
Also, with using an x86 machine, what are they going to do aboutcooling? I know they'll probably require more fans (therfore more space) and be noisier than other consoles. I personally don't want my game system to be as loud as my computer.
One last thing, the Operating Syetm. This part will probably be redundant, but here goes. It is a poor choice. I assume they chose x86/windows for compatibility with PC games, which in itself doesn't seem too bad an idea, except that PC games will largely be designed around COmputer monitor resolutions, and other various computer niceness. It does make it easier for companies to port games, but most game companies when given the option of slower, but easy, and fast, but somewhat harder, seem to take the harder route just to have more spectacular effects than the competition. In any case, I've always felt Console systems to be the wrong place for *ANY* general purpose OS. Just provide an OS with *only* the features needed to run games, without the extra fluff that Business Apps, etc. would use. Maybe the Windows they release for it will be specialized, but then should it be called Windows, considering?
Well regardless, it won't see any of my money, I'll likely get a PS2, and *maybe* a dreamcast, but not an X-Box.
And people actually complain about the bandwidth of most types of video memory to be too slow.. Imagine trying to transfer the rendered scenes back to the client system to display over the internet! 60+ fps at 160x1200 with 23 bpp?? Forget that, maybe 320x200 at 8 bpp with ~ 5 fps if you have a relatively decent connection:) Even if you have outrageous connections, nothing can even begin to handle the needed load. Of course, there is also the network latency introduced too:)
Well this won't be FF9, this will be a non-interactive movie.. But that was an excellent summary of the FF series.. I'm a fan of the series in any case.
Of course, in the united States it went Final Fantasy, then Finaly Fantasy II And then Final Fantasy III, and then Final Fantasy VII and then VIII, you have to get the japanese/translations for the REAL 2,3, and 5:) Or bye the Anthology in the US for V....
It is entirely done in the style of the Full-Motion-Videos of Finaly Fantasy 7 and 8 (though the graphics are better than either game). I donwlaoded a smaller trailer long ago and it was really quite impressive. They have gone all out on this one, with real people wearing little devices and moving around to give data to computers as to the most realistic way the characters should move. You should research a bit more on it. This is one of the most anticipated mvoies in a long time for me..
I would try if I could find my old Star Control collection CD,. Had Star Control I II for 9 bucks, and star control II was one of the best games I ever played on DOS.. What I wouldn' give to have that CD turn up.. In any case Your system should handle it, especially if it worked before:) Just some tweaking must be involved. But I'm no expert:)
Windows 2000 now maintains a separtae group of dlls for EACH program now? If.dlls are supposed to be shared libraries, it seems kinda silly.. might as well static link everything:)
No other system has crypto stuff in it. The psx2 evidently uses a crytpographic approach to storing data on the memory card. I can not think of one good reason why, except to ride hype of privacy. But seriously, what kind of data would need encryption on a saved game?
Slashdot Mirror
Whoops, I thought you meant as a client OS!
huh, I just put it in /home/beos and it worked. BeOS does not know/care what ext2 is your /, so long as only one has a beos directory in it. No symlinks needed, and in fact make no sense to beos. BeOS simply scans each ext2 for a beos directory, and when found tries to use that.
Doesn't support Win98SE? Strange works perfectly fine for me..
Umm, excuse me? They are going to package windows as a client OS inside their *linux* product. Why install windows inside windows? They've had their windows product a long while and already have (IIRC) a deal with Redhat to package Redhat with vmware, so that NT users can install linux under vmware, this just turns it around, to sell pre-capsulated windows with vmware for linux
Find it funny that slashdot had the story as "BeOS 5.0 available for free" Before Be released it, and then, to make up for the mistake, changed it to "BeOS 5.0 avaialble for free - But Not Yet" Pretty much at the same time it *did* become available, therefore making the story incorrect again? :)
At least they are also offering linux capability too..but even then, witht he current offerings it looks like I won't be taking a Free Be CD and installing it directly on a un-initialized system.. Oh well, I wonder how much BeOS 5 will cost me for a *real* version.. I bought BeOS 4, and got 4.5 for free, but they probably won't do that again :)
Stuck my foot in my mouth, it does require windows to install, at least according to the readme, and is also limited to 512 meg partition for it's "root" though can mount other partitions to use.. The free version is much more crippled then Be had led everyone to believe. But I guess the wording of the FAQ could have gone either way. I'm still curious about the BeOS4Linux.tar.gz file, anyone tried it, I can't get in to download off of any mirror... In any case I wish they had/will release an ISO with fewer limitations.. I can understand leaving out the royalty-laden stuff and leaving out a few features, but if they want to claim a free, fully-functional O/S it should in no way depend on any other O/S for anything and should not be limited to 512 megs, such a restriction truly makes freebe "crippleware". In any case, BeOS itself is great, I still have 4.5.2, and looks like I'll have to stick with it for now.
Nope, can still be repartitioned, the FAQ just puts too much stress on the loopback install capability. They say in the faq, "*IF* I install.. within windows, will performance suffer.." BeOS has always been standalone.. And the Pro edition only bundles more software, not enable standalone, as near as I can tell.
No No No.. All wrong.. it says "within other operating systems" IT runs, as it always has, independently. All it does inside windows it put a loadlin-like program and a loopback BFS filesystem as a file and takes over, it is in no way dependent, nor has it ever been on windows.
BEOS is a full operating system. When you install it into the windows partition, it is simply a loopback BFS filesystem, and does a "loadlin"-like function and basically takes over.. Main attraction is avoiding repartitioning.
I personally do basic installs and compile most things from source, trying to keep them up to date, but I can only pay attention to so much. It's nice to upgrade to a new version of a distribution simply because it covers all the bases you don't have the time to cover. You could watch freshmeat, but things are posted so fast, it takes a bit of effort just to keep up.
Aside from covering the bases, having prepackaged distributions allow software distributers to package pre-compiled (or source files) for standard, expected sets of libraries, allowing for the most painless installs/compiles.
And probably the most important point is that many newcomers don't upgrade on a package by package basis and NEED everything nice and packaged before they upgrade.
On a slightly tangent point, I hate rpm too, does any distribution have a really good packaging system? I like to both compile from source and install to separate directories for larger programs, yet not get my path all mangled. I like tar balls and stow, but some programs aren't nice and put things where they don't belong anyway, so some files may belong to an unknown packge, because it is not RPM, and it is not in a stow tree (which makes me mad...)
Shortage of people trying to be in IT fields? No.
Shortage of *talented* people in IT? Yes.
Not long ago I was a Teaching Assistant for a computer science class for computer science majors only. The class was full of people, but most of them were very much not adept nor interested in the material, but instead in the big bucks they keep hearing about. Sometime you'll try to tell people in the most informative way about the issues involved in a certain problem and point them in the right direction, but they will only give you blank looks and want to know exactly how to solve the particular problem at hand without thinking about it. There are talented ones, and there are the ones willing to try to think for themselves, but far too many just want the answers handed to them on a silver platter. Everytime I delt with studens like that I felt bad that computer science was just the pot of gold for so many people...
On another note, people keep talking about people not paying the right amount of money for IT people, but I want to know what *is* a good 'going rate' for starting salries.. I had a couple of offers and am now working with one company for an ok sum, but don't know how to compare it with the average. Anyone know statistics for various areas or know where I can find these statistics?
And releasing movies on VHS give them magic copy-protection? I know that VHS doesn't do exact copies, but second generation copies are pretty much indistinguishable from first gen, and can be captured and distributed by anyone with video capture equipment. Sure, there is some sort of unreasonable thinking that digital copies can ruin the MPAA, but the truth is it may damage, but it won't be devastating.
Computer programs, audio Tapes, VHS tapes, CD audio are copied all the time (computer programs and CD audio are copied perfectly thanks to digital), but the legitimate Gaming industry nor the Music Industries have been brought to ruin by these occurances.
Copying is bad, but it is not right to outlaw DeCSS because there are too many fair use issues. Would it be right to declare CD burners illegal because they can be used for illegitimate purposes? Of course not, and we have seen the same thing in video game emulation cases. The courts have up until now upheld "fair use" and produced a reasonable response to the companies seeking action. This response has been telling them to chase after the people known to be doing the copying because those are the people breaking the law, not the people programming the emulators.
Of course, it is sad that this case may very well see the overturn of this common sense. I personally don't really care about the DeCSS product, as I have a dxr2 board to play my movies, but the principles involved concerns me greatly.
Am I the only one not even able to get it to start? I got an AGP Voodoo3 2000 recently from someone I knew, XFree 3.3.5 worked fine, then I try to start XFree 4.0 (compiled from source, and using XFree's binaries) and all I get is "Unresolved function called" and it crashes. 3.9.18 worked fine on my Riva 128 but haven't got to ever try my Voodoo3 in XFree, ironic as how it is one of the supposedly best supported cards.
Well, there is mtv (http://www.mpegtv.com)
(which is NOT btw, by Loki, they do the smpeg
library).
If you have a creative dxr2 board, go to opensource.creative.com and get dxr2 drivers, those are cool.
But if you don't want a commercial solution and do not have the hardware, there is Xtheater at http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jbjohns4/Xtheater/ The main site is down but will be back up on Sunday, but the latest version should be there anyway.
Of course, there is also kmpg 0.5.4 if you have KDE, do a freshmeat search for it's location.
People trying to compile and install from source are invariably going to have missing files, too many things Error and fail out, but regardless make World will keep going and going instead of stopping. I personally had five critical errors that I had to search the build log for, trudge through the source and hack it into submission :) Got it all to build, now all I need is to go home and try it :)
Well, I would have pointed out something like the wheel or fire, saying that about Linux doesn't quite work.
x86 architecture is still crippled by things such as the segmentation they have, little endianess, complex instruction set, etc.. In order to maintain compatibility whilst simlutaneuosly adding more power, they must bend over backwards to make the chip run orginal 64k-limited code, and take advantage of Gigs of RAM too... If you look at the flow chart for any modern x86 processors handling of instructions, its pretty convoluted because of all the contingencies that need be made. As a Computer archicteure professor once said to a class I took "It's like buying a brand new Ferrarri and needing to stick a crank in the front of the engine to start it".
Linux, on the other hand, in no ways tries to be able to run old programs from older UNIX implementations, only takes the concepts that were good and implemented any way they felt like. Even between versions of Linux, they are not afraid to completely scrap comatibility. Source level APIs in the kernel, glibc, etc Change between major releases, completely ignoring older apps, and requireing that programs be slightly rewritten to run on newer software. This lack of fear to change APIs, and occasionally rewrite projects entirely from scratch is both a pain to developers but also the main reason why Linux does so well at general OS stuff (as opposed to Windows, which have had to build and buil and build on top of the same code base, introducing many bugs, and worrying so much about backwards compatibility that strange tricks need be done to avoid breaking old apps).
I've seen several comparisons with other systems on various basis. One is that the clock speed is higher than the other systems, so it must be faster. Unfortunately, this thinking is BS. It is x86 architecture, and x86 based-chips are well-known for inefficiency with respect to clock. Clock speed and MIPS are meaningless across different architectures, and I'll wager 600MHz is beat out by the RISC competition.
Also, with using an x86 machine, what are they going to do aboutcooling? I know they'll probably require more fans (therfore more space) and be noisier than other consoles. I personally don't want my game system to be as loud as my computer.
One last thing, the Operating Syetm. This part will probably be redundant, but here goes. It is a poor choice. I assume they chose x86/windows for compatibility with PC games, which in itself doesn't seem too bad an idea, except that PC games will largely be designed around COmputer monitor resolutions, and other various computer niceness. It does make it easier for companies to port games, but most game companies when given the option of slower, but easy, and fast, but somewhat harder, seem to take the harder route just to have more spectacular effects than the competition. In any case, I've always felt Console systems to be the wrong place for *ANY* general purpose OS. Just provide an OS with *only* the features needed to run games, without the extra fluff that Business Apps, etc. would use. Maybe the Windows they release for it will be specialized, but then should it be called Windows, considering?
Well regardless, it won't see any of my money, I'll likely get a PS2, and *maybe* a dreamcast, but not an X-Box.
And people actually complain about the bandwidth of most types of video memory to be too slow.. Imagine trying to transfer the rendered scenes back to the client system to display over the internet! 60+ fps at 160x1200 with 23 bpp?? Forget that, maybe 320x200 at 8 bpp with ~ 5 fps if you have a relatively decent connection :) Even if you have outrageous connections, nothing can even begin to handle the needed load. Of course, there is also the network latency introduced too :)
Maybe he played the Japanese FF3 then :) Here is a little Table for Japanese and US FF games:
:) And I know NES in Japan was Famicom, and same for SNES, but this is simpler :)
Japan US
________ ________
FF1 -NES FF1
FF2 -NES
FF3 -NES
FF4 -SNES FF2
FF5 -SNES
FF6 -SNES FF3
FF7 -PSX FF7
FF8 -PSX FF8
They really confused things by skipping so many numbers in the US
Well this won't be FF9, this will be a non-interactive movie.. But that was an excellent summary of the FF series.. I'm a fan of the series in any case.
:) Or bye the Anthology in the US for V....
Of course, in the united States it went Final Fantasy, then Finaly Fantasy II And then Final Fantasy III, and then Final Fantasy VII and then VIII, you have to get the japanese/translations for the REAL 2,3, and 5
It is entirely done in the style of the Full-Motion-Videos of Finaly Fantasy 7 and 8 (though the graphics are better than either game). I donwlaoded a smaller trailer long ago and it was really quite impressive. They have gone all out on this one, with real people wearing little devices and moving around to give data to computers as to the most realistic way the characters should move. You should research a bit more on it. This is one of the most anticipated mvoies in a long time for me..
I would try if I could find my old Star Control collection CD,. Had Star Control I II for 9 bucks, and star control II was one of the best games I ever played on DOS.. What I wouldn' give to have that CD turn up.. In any case Your system should handle it, especially if it worked before :) Just some tweaking must be involved. But I'm no expert :)
Windows 2000 now maintains a separtae group of dlls for EACH program now? If .dlls are supposed to be shared libraries, it seems kinda silly.. might as well static link everything :)
No other system has crypto stuff in it. The psx2 evidently uses a crytpographic approach to storing data on the memory card. I can not think of one good reason why, except to ride hype of privacy. But seriously, what kind of data would need encryption on a saved game?