Let's start with this statement: He doesn't even mention the problems that most open source hackers seem to have with creating software that can be used by non-computer experts.
Have you tried Mozilla or Open Office? They're quite easy to use.
On to your idealogues problem. It's true that some Open Source software has been over promised and under delivered, but that charge can also be leveled at Microsoft and especially at Windows. Critical items and features drop off the list as deadlines approach and pass. Serious bugs are discovered weekly in their code.
The average user, if presented with a blank box would flail around using either Linux or Windows. The real challenge is to sit the newbie in front of a pre-configured box. If you look at what you can do with configuring/customizing Linux I think you would be very surprised about how user friendly a system you could get.
This is different from the person who will throw his/her hands up in disgust merely because an icon looks a little different or has moved in the menus that he/she knows and loves.
A similar site that merely complained about abortion and suggested that people do everything in their power to stop it would be perfectly legal. The problem is that they're listing names, addresses, and phone numbers. This means that the site becomes a tangible threat to specific individuals.
That's where they crossed the line from merely espousing their beliefs.
First, I want to congratulate you on a well written argument. I don't really agree with it, but it was well written and thought out.
Now, the issue isn't so much your individual choice. The issue is imposing your choice on others. Some people are always going to seek out abortions. This maybe because of irresponsibility, medical problems, rape, etc. Who knows all the possible reasons. The fact remains, some people will want/need abortions.
The only thing outlawing abortion will do is put these people at risk. It will stop some abortions, but not 100% of them.
I think your approach is the right one. If you don't like it then you can try to educate people to see your point of view. Talk with them. Provide them more information if they ask for it. Don't yell "murderer" in their face. Don't create "Wanted Posters".
I wonder how the people of the site would feel if a counter-site appeared listing their personal information on it?
Well, I guess we'd better haul the big G himself up before the courts.
Hmm, Noah's flood? Soddom and Gemorrah? Ordering Abraham to sacrifice Isaac (or was that the other way around)?
Biblical authority (which you weren't using btw) is a wonderful thing. You can find a quote for anything. Heck, I saw a guy pull a quote out of the bible that was basically instructions for cleaning off mildew.
Jesus preached "turn the other cheek". How can anyone justify killing someone based on that? Remember "Thou shalt not kill?" Of course there's also "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".
Pick and choose. You can support any side you want. And if that doesn't fit your need you can just go to another religion's great books.
The problems have to do with the rules of cross-examination. New evidence can only be entered in during cross-examination of it directly corroborates or contradicts a statment of the witness. Cross-examination isn't the time to enter unrelated evidence into the proceeding. That is supposed to be done during the prosecution's presentation. This is also why the Judge was so reluctant to admit the later cancelled XP Embedded demonstration into the proceedings.
The game has certain rules, granted they don't make much sense, but they have rules nonetheless.
I would point at that they sent a letter to Compaq informing them of the cancellation of their OEM license back when Compaq was installing Netscape's Navigator onto their boxes.
At the time Compaq was either #1 or #2, so I don't think that's so far fetched a scenario.
Remember, if they cancelled Dell's license that doesn't mean that MS would suddenly lose all of Dell's customers as Windows buyers. It means that Dell would lose all of its customers to companies that still had an OEM license.
In the memo, Microsoft senior vice president Joachim Kempin complained to Gates
Joachim Kempin was head of all OEM contracts. He was considered to be one of the most powerful people at Microsoft (at least as far as the OEM's were concerned). This was not some junior level exec trying to flex his muscles.
Actually, MS is in the process of being sued by its competitors. In particular, Netscape and Be have filed lawsuits. This would probably make a good document to attach to a suit from Red Hat.
The DoJ's suit does not try to redress previous wrongs. It is supposed to keep the behavior from occurring in the future. It is up to individual companies to file suit against MS for the damages from the previous transgressions. Of course, that ol' triple damages 'cause they're a monopoly clause is probably making a few lawyers salivate.
The day the BSA comes sniffing around my business is the day they have the door slammed in their face.
I wish you the best of luck. I'll agree that EULA's exist in a strange legal limbo at the moment (mainly the reason that they're trying to shove UCITA down our throats). However, there has yet to be a definitive case striking them down as illegal. Until that case comes along those licenses are enforceable. (Also, look at New York's lawsuit against "non-disparage" clauses in some EULA's and the "no benchmark" clauses as well.)
No, you don't. Software is legally licensed differently. You're welcome to try to assert your "rights" but I won't give you a very good chance at it.
This isn't an opinion. Software is a different creature. While not all the items that software makers like to think are legal in those EULA's are enforceable, a number of them are.
Think about it. The EULA is what gives the SBA the right to "audit" companies. Microsoft can, and has, legally prosecuted people for piracy and for installing multiple copies of a piece of software in a company.
Software and books are radically different as far as licensing goes. If software was "licensed" like books were then you could buy one copy of a piece of software and install it wherever you wanted.
How about MS's OEM license terms? (Copy of Windows licensed to only the original piece of hardware that it came on.)
Don't ever mistake a software license for what you get when you buy a book.
My favorite quote from the article:
"This format for printed publications is widely accepted, based on a study of 30 centuries of graphic design and consumer testing."
Wow, those Pheonecians were really ahead of the curve. Graphic design and consumer testing? Do you recall anyone surveying you after you read a book? Also, you'd think a 3,000 year old marketing program could produce results a little earlier then Q3 2002. Someone better fire the exec who started the program. Of course, they might have to dig him up first...
Here's my favorite quote from MusicNet: " A spokeswoman for MusicNet said, "We are deeply committed to artists' rights and to ensuring that copyright holders are compensated." "
The amazing thing is that this statement is actually true. They're committed to artists' rights in that they want the market instead of Napster, et. al. Additionally, they are compensating copyright holders. The problem is, only in rare occasions is the artist the copyright holder.
Thank you Sony Bono. Sometimes you just have to root for the pine trees.
What does the Slashdot community think about having your retinal pattern embedded on a smart card?
Well, I'm not too crazy about it but I will have to say that it's better than having a smart card embedded in your retinal pattern.
Actually we were voting/pulling for John Cusack for awhile. Especially after his fight scene in Grosse Pointe Blank. I had forgotten that the guy had been actually studying kick boxing rather than just playing one in a film.
The fortunate thing is that with the full body costume you can swap in a talented stunt man for the flexible/coordination requiring manuevers.
Personally, I think Jackie Chan's popularity comes from his humanity and the fact that he tends to beat himself up pretty bad during the making of a film. Spidey is just way too tough and resilient to fit into the Chan mold. Though the back alley trash can wielding manuevers he used to do in the comics would fit the Chan-style.
Also, if you didn't care about voice and wanted an incredible fighter I think you'd do even better with Jet Li.
But see if you'll ever get Microsoft to admit that.
The Workstation/Server controversy goes back to the NT 4.0 TCP/IP connection limit. (It seems that people were running Netscape's server on an NT 3.51 Workstation box and everything was fine.)
I guess I was going more for irony with the statement there.
Those are called interdependencies. Yes the KDE specific pieces that expect to use a browser will stop functioning, no the Linux system won't stop functioning.
Microsoft has been going around trying to claim that you need IE for Windows to run. IE is "inextricably linked to the OS" and "removing it would cause the OS to cease functioning". Strangely enough, the same IE install also works on the server versions of their OS code which they claim are different from the workstation (professional and home as they call them) versions of their OS code.
"HTML Help" is a wonderful dodge that MS invented. Here they are using psuedo-HTML in proprietary compressed files. The only reason that "HTML Help" doesn't work under another browser is that they're not using HTML files. Another point for the ol' "Triple E" MS approach I guess.
Finally, if its evident that the witness doesn't know about OS's then why is he testifying about them? After all, he has been called as an expert to testify about the effects of these proposed remedies on the OS.
Slashdot Mirror
Let's start with this statement:
He doesn't even mention the problems that most open source hackers seem to have with creating software that can be used by non-computer experts.
Have you tried Mozilla or Open Office? They're quite easy to use.
On to your idealogues problem. It's true that some Open Source software has been over promised and under delivered, but that charge can also be leveled at Microsoft and especially at Windows. Critical items and features drop off the list as deadlines approach and pass. Serious bugs are discovered weekly in their code.
The average user, if presented with a blank box would flail around using either Linux or Windows. The real challenge is to sit the newbie in front of a pre-configured box. If you look at what you can do with configuring/customizing Linux I think you would be very surprised about how user friendly a system you could get.
This is different from the person who will throw his/her hands up in disgust merely because an icon looks a little different or has moved in the menus that he/she knows and loves.
Your friends will be thinking it escapes radar detection and that it may bomb them at any time.
Hmmm, do you suppose that SE after Win 98 really meant Stealth Edition then?
Hmmm, yet another underground uprising eh?
Not only does the thing damage IE, they're hell on lawnmowers too.
The difference is in the details.
A similar site that merely complained about abortion and suggested that people do everything in their power to stop it would be perfectly legal. The problem is that they're listing names, addresses, and phone numbers. This means that the site becomes a tangible threat to specific individuals.
That's where they crossed the line from merely espousing their beliefs.
First, I want to congratulate you on a well written argument. I don't really agree with it, but it was well written and thought out.
Now, the issue isn't so much your individual choice. The issue is imposing your choice on others. Some people are always going to seek out abortions. This maybe because of irresponsibility, medical problems, rape, etc. Who knows all the possible reasons. The fact remains, some people will want/need abortions.
The only thing outlawing abortion will do is put these people at risk. It will stop some abortions, but not 100% of them.
I think your approach is the right one. If you don't like it then you can try to educate people to see your point of view. Talk with them. Provide them more information if they ask for it. Don't yell "murderer" in their face. Don't create "Wanted Posters".
I wonder how the people of the site would feel if a counter-site appeared listing their personal information on it?
Well, I guess we'd better haul the big G himself up before the courts.
Hmm, Noah's flood? Soddom and Gemorrah? Ordering Abraham to sacrifice Isaac (or was that the other way around)?
Biblical authority (which you weren't using btw) is a wonderful thing. You can find a quote for anything. Heck, I saw a guy pull a quote out of the bible that was basically instructions for cleaning off mildew.
Jesus preached "turn the other cheek". How can anyone justify killing someone based on that? Remember "Thou shalt not kill?" Of course there's also "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".
Pick and choose. You can support any side you want. And if that doesn't fit your need you can just go to another religion's great books.
The problems have to do with the rules of cross-examination. New evidence can only be entered in during cross-examination of it directly corroborates or contradicts a statment of the witness. Cross-examination isn't the time to enter unrelated evidence into the proceeding. That is supposed to be done during the prosecution's presentation. This is also why the Judge was so reluctant to admit the later cancelled XP Embedded demonstration into the proceedings.
The game has certain rules, granted they don't make much sense, but they have rules nonetheless.
<#include std.IANAL>
I would point at that they sent a letter to Compaq informing them of the cancellation of their OEM license back when Compaq was installing Netscape's Navigator onto their boxes.
At the time Compaq was either #1 or #2, so I don't think that's so far fetched a scenario.
Remember, if they cancelled Dell's license that doesn't mean that MS would suddenly lose all of Dell's customers as Windows buyers. It means that Dell would lose all of its customers to companies that still had an OEM license.
In the memo, Microsoft senior vice president Joachim Kempin complained to Gates
Joachim Kempin was head of all OEM contracts. He was considered to be one of the most powerful people at Microsoft (at least as far as the OEM's were concerned). This was not some junior level exec trying to flex his muscles.
Actually, MS is in the process of being sued by its competitors. In particular, Netscape and Be have filed lawsuits. This would probably make a good document to attach to a suit from Red Hat.
The DoJ's suit does not try to redress previous wrongs. It is supposed to keep the behavior from occurring in the future. It is up to individual companies to file suit against MS for the damages from the previous transgressions. Of course, that ol' triple damages 'cause they're a monopoly clause is probably making a few lawyers salivate.
I guess they can join IBM in the ol' "Spiral of Death" eh?
Puh-leeze. IBM has wholeheartedly embraced Linux and is stronger than ever.
The day the BSA comes sniffing around my business is the day they have the door slammed in their face.
I wish you the best of luck. I'll agree that EULA's exist in a strange legal limbo at the moment (mainly the reason that they're trying to shove UCITA down our throats). However, there has yet to be a definitive case striking them down as illegal. Until that case comes along those licenses are enforceable. (Also, look at New York's lawsuit against "non-disparage" clauses in some EULA's and the "no benchmark" clauses as well.)
So.....
if....
Sunday
you're free why don't you come with me while we...
Poison the Penguins in the park.
I'm not quite sure who I should apologize to for that one.
Ellis,
No, you don't. Software is legally licensed differently. You're welcome to try to assert your "rights" but I won't give you a very good chance at it.
This isn't an opinion. Software is a different creature. While not all the items that software makers like to think are legal in those EULA's are enforceable, a number of them are.
Think about it. The EULA is what gives the SBA the right to "audit" companies. Microsoft can, and has, legally prosecuted people for piracy and for installing multiple copies of a piece of software in a company.
Software and books are radically different as far as licensing goes. If software was "licensed" like books were then you could buy one copy of a piece of software and install it wherever you wanted.
How about MS's OEM license terms? (Copy of Windows licensed to only the original piece of hardware that it came on.)
Don't ever mistake a software license for what you get when you buy a book.
Hmmm,
Does that mean that if you write a virus for OSS you need to distribute the source code along with it too?
I can see it now, the virus writer got two years in jail for the virus and 10 years for violating the GPL...
Read the story.
They cut out a head but, not a butt head.
My favorite quote from the article: "This format for printed publications is widely accepted, based on a study of 30 centuries of graphic design and consumer testing." Wow, those Pheonecians were really ahead of the curve. Graphic design and consumer testing? Do you recall anyone surveying you after you read a book? Also, you'd think a 3,000 year old marketing program could produce results a little earlier then Q3 2002. Someone better fire the exec who started the program. Of course, they might have to dig him up first...
Here's my favorite quote from MusicNet:
" A spokeswoman for MusicNet said, "We are deeply committed to artists' rights and to ensuring that copyright holders are compensated." "
The amazing thing is that this statement is actually true. They're committed to artists' rights in that they want the market instead of Napster, et. al. Additionally, they are compensating copyright holders. The problem is, only in rare occasions is the artist the copyright holder.
Thank you Sony Bono. Sometimes you just have to root for the pine trees.
What does the Slashdot community think about having your retinal pattern embedded on a smart card? Well, I'm not too crazy about it but I will have to say that it's better than having a smart card embedded in your retinal pattern.
Actually we were voting/pulling for John Cusack for awhile. Especially after his fight scene in Grosse Pointe Blank. I had forgotten that the guy had been actually studying kick boxing rather than just playing one in a film.
The fortunate thing is that with the full body costume you can swap in a talented stunt man for the flexible/coordination requiring manuevers.
Personally, I think Jackie Chan's popularity comes from his humanity and the fact that he tends to beat himself up pretty bad during the making of a film. Spidey is just way too tough and resilient to fit into the Chan mold. Though the back alley trash can wielding manuevers he used to do in the comics would fit the Chan-style.
Also, if you didn't care about voice and wanted an incredible fighter I think you'd do even better with Jet Li.
...than we thought.
Not only do THEY last forever, but they might even make you last forever.
(I suppose we'll see the undertakers filing suit against Hostess any day now...)
I know that, you know that.
But see if you'll ever get Microsoft to admit that.
The Workstation/Server controversy goes back to the NT 4.0 TCP/IP connection limit. (It seems that people were running Netscape's server on an NT 3.51 Workstation box and everything was fine.)
I guess I was going more for irony with the statement there.
Those are called interdependencies. Yes the KDE specific pieces that expect to use a browser will stop functioning, no the Linux system won't stop functioning.
Microsoft has been going around trying to claim that you need IE for Windows to run. IE is "inextricably linked to the OS" and "removing it would cause the OS to cease functioning". Strangely enough, the same IE install also works on the server versions of their OS code which they claim are different from the workstation (professional and home as they call them) versions of their OS code.
"HTML Help" is a wonderful dodge that MS invented. Here they are using psuedo-HTML in proprietary compressed files. The only reason that "HTML Help" doesn't work under another browser is that they're not using HTML files. Another point for the ol' "Triple E" MS approach I guess.
Finally, if its evident that the witness doesn't know about OS's then why is he testifying about them? After all, he has been called as an expert to testify about the effects of these proposed remedies on the OS.
Midway used to be a big name in the used to be big pinball industry.
Seems like the codename could be construed as an homage to that rather than a WWII reference.