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Post-it Notes vs. Copy-Inhibited CDs
rjoseph writes "MacUser is running an article about how the new Celine Dion CD A New Day Has Come with copy protection mechanisms to prevent the CD from being played on a PC not only won't play on an iMac, but it will lock the CD tray (so it can't be removed) and fubar the firmware (so the machine can't be rebooted), effectivley killing the iMac. Ouch." We mentioned this interesting experiment in consumer relations last month as well, but now it's getting noticed a lot more. However, emkman writes: "What was first thought to be an April Fool's joke, now appears to be true. Some Audio CD protection schemes such as Cactus DATA Shield 100/200, KeyAudio, and perhaps others may be defeated by invalidating the outer ring of the CD with a black marker or post-it sticky note. www.chip.de has their report in German, here is a translation."
GO buy one now!! I want a new computer at their expense!
--sig fault--
An iMac is not a PC!
--
If you moderate this, then your children will be next.
Damnit, I was really looking forward to that new Celine CD too. Guess I'll have to spend my money on Aphex Twin instead.
Certainly not anyone I know who owns a mac
"I think it would be a good idea" Gandhi, on Western Civilisation
It's goddamn ridiculous that this CD can break a computer, when you are performing a legal action with it. This is illegal, and I think Sony should be fined extremely heavily for it.
They are just punishing you for listening to Celine Dion. YOu deserve it.
The firmware doesn't go foobar. The iMac isn't destroyed. Most CD drives have a mechanical (manual) eject that can be hit with a pen or paper clip. In that case you can just pull the CD out and you're fine.
In other cases, perhaps you might need to get creative to get that CD out. Perhaps you need to pull the drive apart - who knows. The point is, the article made it clear that there is no permanent damage to the machine. Get the CD out, and everything goes back to normal.
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
Sorry - money where my mouth is. I read a different article on this subject with more detail at New Scientist today which mentioned that. No permanent damage. There.
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
try this Apple tech info before hitting the panic button...
My God, firmware that can fubar like this? The programmer(s) should be shot.
Of course, it was probably 10 people working on it, no one knew what the other guy was doing, and they were all people who never touched this stuff when they were kids, but after 4 years at University, they're 'experts'.
Excellent.
Seriously, breaking someone's machine intentionally is a bit excessive. Past copy-protection schemes were okay in my book because laymen couldn't get past them and people who bothered/could were in the minority: piracy prevention but without excess. But now the little laymen who don't bother reading the little warning labels are having their iMacs broken? This is affecting the luddites who don't know or care about p2p filesharing and buy all CDs and just assume they'll play in their CD players. Is the industry trying to alienate the people who still trusted it?
Ceci n'est pas une sig
When playing around with the opportunity to kill my firmware, I would wait for a real English article to tell me what to do, instead of relying on a translation. But maybe I'm just being paranoid.
... what the correct way to treat a Celine Dion CD is. Summary of article: a.) Buy black marker b.) paint underside of CD completely black Next up: The correct way to treat your boy group cds. a.) Buy some acetone b.) ...
It is a violation of the DMCA to post the "black-marker" work around? Will this /. story be obliterated from Google? Can you please post the inevitable cease-and-desist before RIAA shuts /. down?
Celine has a right to make a living, ya know. Poor girl.
What do we do to get more people buying cd's? Lower the price to a reasonable $5-$7? No, wait, I've got it. We'll keep the prices around $18 Goddamn Dollars, and use a copy protection scheme that screws up iMacs... Nobody who listens to Celine Dion owns an iMac... Perfect! Let's all give ourselves raises. $100,000 a year enough? We'll have to cut jobs in the support and production departments...
Shift happens. Fire it up.
The soundtrack of Episode 2 seems to be protected in such a way also.
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
I tried to test this Celine Dion CD to see if it would get stuck in my iMac, but then I discovered to my horror that I couldn't get the Starcraft CD out of the drive. Must ... Quit ... Game ... and press ... Eject ... Muscles ... not ... responding...
graspee
P.S. This may have legal implications if my Starcraft CD starts downloading mp3s without my permission. (ha ha. sorry).
If someody were to develop some amazing new casette tape that didn't work on a subset of casette players, that would be okay. If that tape, instead, destroyed the player into which it was inserted by chewing up the playback heads, that would not be okay, even if it came with a label saying, ``Not for use on foo tape decks.''
Celine has done the latter.
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
Ummm... isn't this illegal? If some iMac owner accidently puts one of these CD's in the drive and send the thing to kingdom come, didn't Sony just damage their computer with malicious intent? C'mon, Sony has to know that the CD's are going to do this. Can we say class action lawsuit? What's wrong with playing a cd in your computer? Sure, I've got MP3's, but I also play audio cd's on my laptop, and if my laptop gets busted becase one of these damn cds, then I'd frickin sue Sony and anybody connected to the deal for every dime they've got.
Sony should realize that they're treading on very thin ice here. They need to realize that some people have very sensitive information on their computers, and if it gets f*$&# because of their cd protection scheme.....
Sorry, but these dumb moves just irritate me
-schussat
The hour of noon has passed. Let us go and get some Kentucky Fried Chicken.
No not the fact that the CD can break firmware, but the fact that the firmware can be broken by a CD.
Apple tells how to get the job done in this tech note...not to worry.
Or are those porn ads at the top of that germen site?
OT:
Does anyone see pr0n banners on that google translation?
People should be punished for listening to celien dion.
Hello all,
Apple has released KnowledgeBase Article #106882, Cannot Eject Copy Protected Audio Disc , to adress the problem with the cd's getting locked into the drive.
"You may be unable to eject certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not. Some computers start up to a gray screen after a copy protected disc has been left in the computer."
Wait! I own an iMac! Celine Dion latest CD
;)
won't play on it?!!!!
What's the problem?
1. Create "content." 2. Antogonize customers. 3. ???? 4. Profit
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
While the question of why this kind of crap is being put out is valid, I think there is another question we should be asking. Why the hell does a computer mfgr create a machine that attempts to boot off of an unbootable volume? Is there no error checking in the firmware on the iMac? Remind me never to buy an Apple.
TDK veloCD 8x/4x/32x --- running fine.
dbPowerAmp on Windows XP is chugging away.
"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." -- Dark Helmet
How could a CD screw up the player? All the CDROM does is read bits off of a CD. The data should not be able to alter the program (in this case firmware) at all. The only way i could see something happening is if the firmware was poorly writtian and the CD causes stack overflows.
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
Everyone who has an iMac. Go get the CD, fubar your iMac, and send it in for repair under warranty. Apple might just sue their asses.
-- Ken Kinder ken@_nospam_kenkinder.com http://kenkinder.com/
1. get a regular CD player like a Sony Walkman, or something similer (or better)... 2. line out or the headphone jack will work connected to line in on the computer... 3. use your favorite audio recording app to record on the fly as you listen... sure it might lose just a teeny tiny tad bit of quality but if you are carefull and with some adjustment you can make mp3's this way and will hardly be able to hear the difference... 4. ban copy protected music media. untill the music industry respects people right to fair use...
If you hold the mouse button down while turning a Mac on it will eject the CD from the drive before it boots up.
Because if you scroll down farther, you'll see that they use this point to claim that using these not-CDs in your computer is "misapplication of the product" and that damage caused by not-CDs isn't covered by warranty.
So while it's great that they call out the manufacturers, if your computer gets hosed by some disc, you're the one who's SOL and any repairs come out of your pockets.
Gee, don't you just love copy protection?
I am not Herbert.
OK, everyone who owns an iMac:
Celion has done me a favor. I used to always find myself in the Mac vs. PC war. Now I'll just throw a Celion CD in the opponents Mac and watch him cry...let alone argue anymore =)
To make a pun demonstrates the highest understanding of a language
Needless to say, the copy protection scheme didn't prevent the files from getting out there.
A quick search on some of the popular P2P services reveals all of the songs from this album are available to download.
and perhaps others may be defeated by invalidating the outer ring of the CD with a black marker or post-it sticky note
So does these mean sharpies and post-it notes are violations of the DMCA?
I'll have something intelligent to add one of these days...
Who would buy a Celine Dion CD anyway...
" The firmware doesn't go foobar. The iMac isn't destroyed. Most CD drives have a mechanical (manual) eject that can be hit with a pen or paper clip. In that case you can just pull the CD out and you're fine."
Be careful doing that. Boy who thought a CD could fly that far?
I was also reading on spymac.com that you can get around this with a nikko pen, but what I really want to say is what a precedent this sets for corporations:
We will intentionally cause damage to your property because you did not try to play this in an authorised CD player
I think all those affected now (and more probably in the future with CDs other than Celine) should send a nice happy bill to the corporations that produce these CDs...
Not being a legal person, how can a disclaimer cover something designed to intentionally cripple hardware? Sure you can say in a disclaimer that "it *may* do blah blah blah" but that's a whole lot different to "If you have X this CD is designed to damage this hardware"
... And I also doubt that the disclaimer is in a very prominent position either...
As someone who buys CDs and owns an iBook, I'm not looking forward to the day I pop in a decent CD I've just bought (sorry, Celine fans) I don't want to discover that I can't get the damn thing out of my lappy easily...
-- Dan >:(
From the apple website:
If a disc with copyrighted protection technology remains inside the drive after following the procedures above, or if the computer does not start up normally, it is recommended that you contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) or Apple Technical Support. CD audio discs that incorporate copyright protection technologies do not adhere to published Compact Disc standards. Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. Because the Apple product is functioning correctly according to its design specifications, any fee assessed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for repair service will not be Apple's responsibility.
To copy a copy-'protected' CD:
1) Put in stereo
2) Plug line-out in the stereo to line-in on the soundcard
3) Record
how pathetic...
We obviously can't call this Celine Dion product a "CD"...We're going to need a new term to denote CD-imposters...Lets see...
CC - Crash Circle
"CD" - Quote-Compact Disk-Unquote
ICD - Imposter Compact Disk
FD - Fool's Disk
ID - Incompatible Disk
SF - Sony Frisbee
CC - Celine Coaster
MW3 - Mommy, Why Won't it Work?
RCD - Record Companies Downfall
18POS - $18 Piece Of Sh*t
SLS - Sony's Last Stand
PD - Poo Disk
Any suggestions?
GL
Where the two Aliens come down and wear a Bob Dole and Bill Clinton outfit and run for presidency.
As I'm sure everyone remembers, the aliens are found out but then say something to the effect of "What are you going to do about it with a two party system." And so they elect one of the aliens...
Moral of the story: If you don't like copy protection, don't buy the damn cds! It's that simply.
int func(int a);
func((b += 3, b));
Go out and buy one of these CDs. Take it into a computer store. Try it out in a computer.
When it gets stuck, try to get help from the sales people, but try to do it with a straight face, OK? Now you will probably have to leave it there, but make sure you talk to the highest up manager before you do.
Research on the internet how to eject the disk and come back the next day to get it.
This might work best if you bought the CD in the same store.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
How is this "insightful" and not "offtopic"?
The music publishers are giving people incentives to NOT BUY CDs...
Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com
Arrest him.
What is the difference, except that Dimitri works for a SPAMWARE company.
Fight Spammers!
"MacUser is running an article about how the new Celine Dion CD A New Day Has Come with copy protection mechanisms to prevent the CD from being played on a PC not only won't play on an iMac, but it will lock the CD tray (so it can't be removed) and fubar the firmware (so the machine can't be rebooted), effectivley killing the iMac."
Somewhere a 4th Grade English teacher is crying, and doesn't know why.
It hurts when I pee.
Fubar the firmware? Hey ho, hey ho, watch that FUD-man, see him go!
:p
It doesn't fry the firmware. Not on any iMac I've seen. As far as locking the cd tray.. Eh, there's a little thing called a paper clip.
No, that little hole isn't there so tiny little men can 'seed' more data into your computer.
This is really exactly on-topic. Please mod it up again.
Alright, I feel like an idiot because I've posted three replies on this subject now, but after checking amazon.com and amazon.co.uk, it appears that this only applies to the version sold in the UK. So British buyers beware, but the rest of us are okay (though if the Amazonian reviewers are to be trusted, apparently it is a pretty weak effort compared to Williams' prior work).
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
If you have the bad enough taste to play Celine Dion in your computer it sounds appropriate to me that your computer would respond in such a manner..
..........FULL STOP.
I use mp3s to organize my music collection; I have hundreds of cds. It's much easier to just rip all my cds into mp3 or ogg format and listen to it like that.
But NOOO. Some warez kiddies who like to distribute music online have to ruin this convenience for all of us.
So I guess we got what was coming to us, even if I think that making the iMac freeze is waaaaaaay too harsh.
Just my 2.
PayPal $$ if you sign up for free offers (eBay, cred cards, e
how horrible, dying with Celine Dion in your mouth! *shudder*
HOLLYWOOD, CALIFORNIA - May 13, 2002 - RIAA TEAMS UP WITH MPAA TO URGE BAN OF "SHARPIE" STYLE MARKERS.
Local busineses were shocked today when all 2.5 million office supply stores were simultaneously served with a cease and desist order from the RIAA and MPAA banning the sale of any type of felt tip marker. Lobbyists for the media industry successfully bribed and/or threatened a number of local politician, who in turn passed legislation banning the manufacture, sale, or possession of any device on grounds that it violates the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.
"This is a great day for freedom in this country", stated I. P. Freely, chairman of the House Committee On Media Graft and Campaign Finance. "No longer will reckless hoodlums and terrorist be able to hold our great media industries down! Already these 'media terrorists' have been implicated in causing a downturn in music sales, a deepening of the U.S. recession, balding, impotence, and dandruff. These terrorists are a threat to the very foundation of this nation. Have I said terrorist enough yet? Terrorist terrorist terrorist!"
A small group of bewildered secretaries and office workers were rounded up by jackbooted thugs and herded into "terrorist containment vehicles" (which resemble black vans) as they went into office supply stores in downtown L.A. to buy Sharpies. "Obviously these media terrorists were bent on destroying Sony Music with these devices", said one S.W.A.T. team captain as he twirled a Sharpie in front of cameras. "Don't worry folks", he said, "you're safe now."
When interviewed on the street, many people expressed delight at the actions of the MPAA and RIAA.
"I'm so glad that these hideous terr'rist folks have been rounded up", says Eva Beaver. "Who knows what they might've blown up with their terror weapons. Next it could be planes slamming into buildings!"
Opposition to this new law is expected to be light, say prominent Washington lawmakers. Naysayers will be rounded up and shot on sight, further adding to the desire to keep people from pirating music and movies with felt tip pens.
Spokesmen for Sanford, the company that manufactures the Fully Automatic Terrorist Media Stealing Assault Weapon (formerly known as a Sharpie Marker) could not be reached following a disastrous fire and explosion at every single one of their manufacturing plants.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
My mom has that Celine Dion CD, so I thought I'd give'r a whirl. It's not copy protected. What is the point of making only some of them protected? It seems like it is only making it harder for the casual user to use their own CD and the pirates get their music as they did before. It's the worst of both worlds.
Of course who would want to download Celine Dion anyway, right? In my opinion, Celine Dion has almost no talent, she can't sing, and she doesn't even write her own songs. But anyway, to each their own...
Geezum, I read things like this and suddenly I'm afraid to buy CDs anymore. You can bet I'm going to be pretty cautious of buying any Sony music. If only millions of people could adopt a similar attitude. ;)
My mother bought the new Celine Dion CD (I've been trying to convince her to take it back for not being a "real CD"). I put it in my PC just to test it. The funny think is that the CDROM won't play it as a audio CD. However, I tried cdparanoia and I can rip it without any problem... I guess it's just another case of a "copy-protection" technology prevent legal use (like watching DVD under Linux), while failing at preventing what it's designed to prevent (you can do a mirror copy of a DVD without decrypting it).
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
It's all about the companies getting greedy. Instead of 'losing' a few dollars on the price of each CD, they spend thousands to get the CD 'guarded'. Completely ridiculous, and a result of greed in our society.
Then there's the junk going on about them safeguarding the CD's so they can't be played on a computer. Personally, I'm not the richest person around, and I can't afford a CD player seperate from the computer. I lodged my money into this thing about two years ago, and continue to do so, thinking "Hey, I can play my CD's on here, and write my papers, etc., rather than drive up the electric bill (damned prices last year for electricity...) with two seperate Watt-Guzzelers, as I call them. So, I saved some money there, right?
I ended up buying a few cds the other day, after listening to them on the radio. I pop in the Lord of the Rings OST, remembering fondly the music that scared me in the movie, and waited for it to load. Instead of my lovely music, I get a webpage with a bunch of ads I don't want, and no auto-start on the music. So, naturally, I checked to see if the files were missing or something. Sure enough, they've been 'protected' against use on a computer. So, I wasted $18, and I still haven't listened to the thing once.
Now, they're making the computers crash on us, just for fear of 'stealing' their 'hard earned songs' (even though most of them are just rewrites of old classics). Next thing you know, they'll ban CD-Roms. --;
"Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do."
Apple Knowledge Base article #106882 confirms the problem with "certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not," and says Apple will not pay for repairs even if you have a service contract.
k ba se.woa/116/wa/query?searchMode=Expert&type=id&val= KC.106882
http://kbase.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/
The note suggests a number of things you can "try" or "attempt" which "may" solve the problem.
The telling part is the last paragraph:
"If a disc with copyrighted protection technology remains inside the drive after following the procedures above, or if the computer does not start up normally, it is recommended that you contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) or Apple Technical Support. CD audio discs that incorporate copyright protection technologies do not adhere to published Compact Disc standards. Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. Because the Apple product is functioning correctly according to its design specifications, any fee assessed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for repair service will not be Apple's responsibility."
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
.....the Celine Dion CDs came with an iTunes upgrade?
So now people that want to listen to the new Celine Dion music on their Mac will be forced to download the mp3's?!?! Now there is a brilliant marketing strategy. Does anybody really believe that the copying protection will stop the mp3's from being made?
How can these idiots somehow assume that everyone has a stereo or some form of computer-independent CD player? You wouldnt believe how small a percentage of my friends actually plays their CDs on a stereo. Why, I once foresaw the death of stereos altogether: Why spend a boatload of cash on a huge machine that can do exactly one thing (play CDs - radio sux, tapes are dead, LPs are deader), when you can do the same with your PC?
Why have a TV/Stereo/DVD/VCR/whatever when you can have it all in your PC?
Ah, wait, if you spend a boatload of cash on huge, clunky, technologically outdated devices such as a TV or a 1x CD player, Big Business is happy. And since the government is just for show and it's actually BB who's running the place, the "consumers" really have no choice - fork over your cash time and time again, or live like a peasant in the Dark Ages, with no comfort at all.
I'm sick of this. Where do I point my gun at to get my God-given rights?
Since they're all trying to label us as terrorists I say shoot the bastards and earn the title!
The copy-protection scheme itself may not be, but the reliance on harebrained, short-sighted laws to bully people out of reasonable use of the products they buy (DMCA and the Hollings nightmares) could well be called "capitolism" -- in stark contrast to "capitalism" :)
Cheers,
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Surely there should be warning labels put on these pretend CDs, as well as big signs in the store?
I mean, people are buying these things thinking they are CDs, but in reality they AREN'T CDs! They are designed to look and act LIKE cds, in most situations.
In fact, isn't this fraud....selling things to us deliberately made to LOOK like a CD, but isn't a CD (and thus may not work in any device that claims to play CDs!)
this is just unbeliveable.
The CD player in my computer is the only one I own.
I really hope this doesn't catch on with good music.
Come on you pinheads. If you're going to go after anyone, sue them for false advertising or misrepresenting their product.
They make their product look like a CD, but it isn't really a CD *is it*?
I wonder if Lucas knows that the music from Episode II won't play on his Mac?
"But I want my music (and video)" you say. Same here, so I suggest *only* buying used cd's and dvd's. That as good as a boycott. And, so far, it's still legal (the selling and buying of used cd's and dvd's. Even if it wasn't, I would fight to the death my right to sell my old cd's and dvd's.
Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand (bash.org)
This "Copy prevention" crap is the final straw for me. I'm not buying any more CDs until this bloody copyright battle is over with. I don't expect it will take more than a few years.
Fortunately, I don't feel much need to buy CDs anyway, since I discovered www.emusic.com. It isn't perfect, but it is pretty damn good, and it's worth signing up just on principle. It's the only sensible way for record labels to distribute their stuff: unencumbered digital files, in this case MP3s.
You need to restart the system and just after the chime, leave the mouse button pressed until the media gets ejected. No manual way but a work around for people who like me got cought with the soundtrack of Episode 2.
PPA, the girl next door
-- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
CD drives have a mechanical (manual) eject that can be hit with a pen or paper clip. In that case you can just pull the CD out and you're fine.
The new iMac doesn't have any manual way to do it.
They spend 2 years and 3 million dollars designing a computer that looks like a lamp and they forget to include a manual eject mechanism. Somehow, coming from Apple, I'm sot surprised.
Anyway, can't you see this is a Miracle? Clearly, this is God's way of ridding the earth of two evils (Céline Dion's CDs and iMacs). Mac users take this as a sign: you bit the Apple but God still loves you.
If it is, then this shall be an article to Philips lawyers. If it isn't the CD isn't even compatible with your stereo CDPlayer.
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
Quote: the new Celine Dion CD A New Day Has Come
Q: A New Day Has Come for what?
A: Apple Tech Support, of course!
"Then schtick ze blow torchen up your assen-holen, and ge-crank that mutterfikken all ze way uppen-leder-hosen."
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
The music companies are quietly removing the CD logo from some of these controversial copy-protected CD's because they do not conform to the Red Book standard.
So here's a way we can fight back. When you are buying your CD's, always insist on CD's bearing the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo.
This does two things:
* Any copy-protected disc that bears the CD logo may be in technical breach of some law, such as misleading and deceptive marketing, and you can possibly sue the store and record company on those grounds (IANAL) or make a formal complaint to some regulatory body such as the FTC.
* It lets the store know that there are people who prefer genuine CD's instead of that crippled copy-protected rubbish. Once you buy the CD, it's your right to do with it as you please, provided you do not infringe on the copyright owners' rights to redistribute the music.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Ha ha fucking ha, let's start the 300+ messages of "hohoho! Who cares! Who listens to Celine Dion anyway!!" again, as everyone shoots for +1, Funny.
Joke all you want. If this can happen to a Celine CD, it can happen to any other CD in Sony's collection as well. The point isn't Celine, the point is they are TRYING TO FUCK THE CONSUMER with this shit, and they don't care.
Celine is the first, there WILL be others. When a musician YOU like gets crapified by Sony and Cactus, will you then shoot for +1 Funny? Didn't think so.
Of couse all of this effort is a waste of time if it can be found easily on your average P2P network. So of course I had a look at Kazaa(lite) and sure enough it looks like the entire CD is online anyway...
All this effort that the label went though hasn't done what it is supposed to. All they have in the end is a decline in sales, bad PR... and legitimate consumers that will stay as far away from the most common way to get music. Buying it in the store.
I had over 400 cds and this drives me wild. MP3's sound like crap most of the time, but if it worth buying I will. I normally buy a CD (that I want) on its release date, but now I am scared because I don't know if I can play it the way I want to.... consider me the scared consumer (and geek)...
This isn't the only disc that gets stuck in Macs. Here's an article from Apple that mentions two other discs and also the solution. Click here to read the article.
Still, it's pretty silly that they forgot to include a manual eject button; if the power supply dies, for example, your disc is stuck until the computer is repaired.
RMN
~~~
Pay for education? Oh, you americans crack me up! :D
If it isn't a "CD" does this violate the patent on Compact Disks, as it is same technology, just with a few 0s and 1s?
GL
That's the term I use since a perfectly fine standard (the Philipps/Sony CD standard) is being corrupted to do something it wasn't made to do.
For a listing of corrupt CDs, check out my site at http://www.fatchucks.com. It may be helpful...
Look, don't play the music industry game. Don't bother to figure out how to defeat the copy protection that just makes them try harder.
Just don't buy the CDs.
Or better yet, buy them, open them, then take them back to the store and complain that they don't work. If the store will only offer an exchange, take the exchange and bring that one back too. Just keep doing this until they learn that they do not work.
The stores can't put them back on the shelves, they have to ship them back to the distributor. I guarantee you when 25% of their stock comes back defective, someone is going to start to notice what a really bad idea this is.
Hmm, I work right next door to a Best Buy. I could buy and return a CD every day for lunch. Might be kind of fun.
...file a lawsuit against the label since they purposely damaged their computer? Isn't distruction of property an illegal thing??
I want to see someone take this to court. Too bad I dont buy celine dion...
Okay, so you have some software which is vulnerable to malformed data which has been fed to it by an unsuspecting user, and it causes damage to your system. Rather than providing fixes, the vendor blames the users and the source of the malformed data. Apple's CD drives have a major security hole. It is being exploited by malicious hackers, who have produced attacks which lure people into subjecting their computers to them by promising to contain music.
Sure, people shouldn't buy these things. Sure, the people who make them should be treated as the computer criminals they are. Sure, Celine Dion should remind people of Melissa. But Apple should really fix these things. Computers that won't work if the CD drive gets messed up? CD drives that trust discs to have valid data, and can be permanently damaged by discs with data errors? I certainly hope their network cards aren't so lousy...
If you are a U.S. resident (you don't have to be a citizen) and want to be part of a class-action lawsuit, go here:
http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.submit.html
after you buy a known corrupt CD (one with a red star next to it):
http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.html
I will personally forward your info to the group of lawfirms who are already planning a class-action against the record industry. If you have any questions about this class-action or anything else, write me at chuck@fatchucks.com.
Peace.
Because aren't there some steroes or cd players that have a line out feature. So simply play cds on cd players, line out to your computer, line in with an ATI card, and you are okay. Am I missing something because I know nothing about audio? :)
I love it when Hi-Tech mechinisms meet low tech solutions. A post it note defeating copy protected CD's is great, I mean less than 1 cents worth of paper defeating what is probally thousands, if not millions of dollars worth of R&D into copy protection schemes. Its along those same Hi/Low tech meetings as using a pencil to overclock the Duron, or even the old exploit in the Scantron tests where you could just fill in all the bubbles. It just goes to show you, theres always a use for the junk around your desk...
You're probably just being a smart-ass, which I appreciate. :-D
FYI, Aphex Twin is as bad as Celine too. Check out reports about their latest CD here: Aphex Twin: Drukqs
Yee-ha, let the good times roll.
Instead of using a sharpie I recommend using a dry erase maker (you know the marker used for the white boards)
the reason is that this marker will not leave any major damage to your cd (I hope)
Ok, computer translations are getting better, but reading a translated german website is like getting instructions from Yoda.
--
I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me - Churchill
Although it is preventing the music from being played in a computer, its not really a copy protection scheme. Its a protection mechinism to save us from the damage caused to people if Celine Dions music would actually have to be listened to. Ecch, makes me shudder to think of it, oh the humanity.....
I have the new Celine Dion CD, (Yes I am a fag), and I was able to copy/play it perfectly.
Yeah, its just as if they had put a big "do not press" button on the box. You fucking idiot.
Apple is not at fault, the CD does not comply with the standards in fact it intentionally breaks the standard. It is not reasonable to expect every cd drive to be compatible with every conceivable standard bastardization or disc defect. That would be extremely inefficient. No one makes hardware that way nor should they.
The problem is with the disc not the drive. Try to get that through your thick stupid head.
I am reminded of my teenage days of punching notches into the side of 5 1/4" disks with a hole punch...
::Colz Grigor
Magic markers to avert copy protection schemes... I love low-tech solutions to high-tech problems.
carrying their iMac into CompUSA today. Puts a new perspective on things doesn't it? High we're the Record companies and your 7 year old daughter is an mp3 pirate.
No shit. I take it most people on slashdot have some real or imagined techical skill at various levels. The other 90% of the public doesn't and shouldn't have to in order to play a frigging CD in their computer - it's not rocket science.
.
I'm hoping that these CDs will boomerang in Joe Public's eyes so that sales drop enough to warrant the banishment of copy-protected CDs which neither protect their audio content nor are CDs. Hopefully "Uou can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time" will kick in at some point between now and Christmas.
In the meantime, if you want to do something now, check out some suggestions I came up with at my site:
http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.action.html
or join the class-action lawsuit:
http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.submit.html
It's not hard, but it does take a minute to act.
Peace.
In A.D. 2002, War was beginning.
Mac Hacker: What happen?
User: Somebody set us up the Celine Dion Not-CD
Programmer: We get signal
Mac Hacker: What!
Programmer: Main Screen turn on
Mac Hacker: It's You!
R.O.S.E.N.: How are you gentlemen?
R.O.S.E.N.: All your CD-ROM drive are belong to us.
R.O.S.E.N.: You are on the way to destruction
Mac Hacker: What you say?!?!
R.O.S.E.N.: You have no chance to hack make your time
R.O.S.E.N.: HA HA HA HA....
Mac Hacker: Take off every Not-CD
Mac Hacker: You know what you doing
Mac Hacker: Remove Not-CD
Mac Hacker: For great justice
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Has anyone who purchased one the the CD's in question contact their local Better Business Bureau? When I buy something that looks like a CD, is sold in the CD isle, I don't expect it to hose my iMac.
Let's get as many agency's in on this as possable.
--T
http://www.theMediaBunker.com
A) Find a better record store - may I suggest A&B Sound
B) If you don't like putting part of your wages toward social services, move to the States, shithead.
2002-04-03 17:39:55 New Celine Dion CD will crash your computer (articles,news) (rejected)
<SARCASM>
What do you care, unless you're an Evil Hacking Terrorist Content Pirate(tm).
Only Evil Content Pirates want the DMCA overturned. Stinking Terrorist.
</SARCASM>
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
I imagine it tries to boot off the CD (remember, Apple got rid of the floppy) and since the copy protection screws up the TOC, the boot process freezes.
Not a dig, just a reminder to non-Mac users who assume every computer has a floppy drive. Touchy, aren't we?
Unless you were being sarcastic, in which case it was a bit too subtle for me to handle. (Wouldn't be the first time...)
ha ha ha I made a funny
Ever since LPs, Cassettes and other formats that physically would wear out disappeared, the record companies have been freaking out. They make the most of their money on people buying their content over and over again. CDs were great for this at first, everyone went out and replaced their record collections with the new media. But CDs lasted too long, and worse, can be BACKED UP!
Soon, the record company will only sell DRM media, that will require you to keep a subscription to the record company service, or else your media wont' play anymore.
Bottom line: record companies want to charge you over and over again to listen to music.
"Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. "
So not only is the computer broken because you didn't see the fine print and tried to play a cd in it, but you have to pay for the repairs.
It would probably be easier to get a class action lawsuit going against Sony.
Question: does this screw up Sony CD drives? Or Sony computers? If not, then there might be serious grounds for a lawsuit.
but...
If I create something that resembles an email message, but really just uses the email message format to carry a harmful digital payload to damage your system, I'm just an evil hacker who's likely to be spending time in prison.
Yup. Makes sense to me.
A new kind of meat designed to appeal to vegetarians.
I recall something about invalidating the firmware on a floppy drive, in a slightly different manner. I think the trick was to paint the inside of a floppy with nail polish and the powder from inside caps. The drive heats up to read the disk, and in a flash of fire, the floppy drive is no longer functional. Now that's copy protection.
Mod parent up
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
Maybe it's not a software trick at all - could be that Celine Dion's voice was causing the computers to crash in the first place. Poor iMac couldn't take it anymore...
free ipod? yeah.
Go to your local hyper-mart, collect all the CD's you can with warnings about not being able to play in a computer, slap them on the counter and announce loudly that you WON'T be purchasing these CD's because they are complete CRAP.
If you feel so inclined you might even explain that by stating that your normaly stereo CD player won't play the CD's without it sounding like complete crud etc etc.
I just think the act of bringing up all those CD's and SHOWING them what you (and probably soon to be many many other people) are NOT going to buy because they have a stupid 'protection' scheme on them that makes them just above worthless... (I mean they still CAN be used as a coaster.)
How did they do this, anyway? What is the disk doing. This goes beyond having a Windows autorun file and a bad CD directory.
Anyone know if it would be possible for an evil person to distribute an .iso that did something similar? Totally f*ck up someone's cd-rom?
Any group that records images into music . Can't be that bad
Slashdot geeks can rant and rave all they want about these horrible booby-trapped 'discs', but the outside world must respond for anything to happen- either endorsing the legitimacy of the 'discs' or rejecting it.
Well, this is a start.
Playing these things on an iMac means basically voiding the warranty. If, God knows how, the corrupted and intentionally damaging 'disc' manages to actually kill the iMac, Apple says it is your fault for trying to put booby-trapped, intentionally destructive junk in the machine!
This is a GOOD thing, and I hope other computer manufacturers do likewise. I wouldn't have believed that such a thing could kill an iMac, but note this: iMacs ARE BOOTABLE FROM CD. It seems possible that these 'discs' could contain something like a boot sector, to trick the machine into trying to boot off the 'disc' and then munging its BIOS. Viruses have been able to do stuff like that for years and years- this is simply the first time the RIAA has made a concerted effort to destroy people's computers.
Apple cannot possibly take responsibility for this. They're doing the right thing- staring in shock, and then quickly announcing, "We will not be held responsible for interoperating with THIS BULLSHIT!"
I say support Apple for this stance, don't criticise them. Or do you feel that computer manufacturers should now be held responsible for maintaining interoperability with VIRUSES?
... perhaps it's this. I don't own any of the CDs on this list though. Perish the thought.
Actually, I think there's a DVD still stuck in there, but it could possibly be a CD. I can't tell till i crack the bastard open.
Actually, it's possible the wife got the David Grey album and didn't tell me when the machine wiped ot....
Screw you all! I'm off to the pub
was the CD *designed* to destroy firmware? In fact, how on earth can it DO that?
Bad design on the part of the mac.. that's how.
Let's not put the blame in the wrong place. Copy protected CDs are one thing.. but a mac going braindead because it can't work with the CD? Rediculous.
Apple knows [apple.com]. You have three non-pull-apart options.
[options deleted]
Well, let's see...
The crud they put on the disk locks up the Apple when you try to play it. Thus...
This is "technology" that "effectively prevents" unauthorized copying.
Breaking your computer is part of the correct operation of this technology, so
Fixing your computer is "circumvention" of "technology" that "effectively prevents" unauthorized copying, a felony under the DMCA, and
Apple's post telling you how to fix your computer is "trafficing" in circumvention technology, also a felony.
Quick! Call the FBI! (And ask Adobe for the phone number of the appropriate person to call. B-) )
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I do have a stereo at home, but not at work...
:-)
...and all the music I buy is only every played at work (or occasionally in my car) - my girlfriend doesn't like my prediliction for Swedish death metal...(fancy that!), but I won't code to anything else
SONY.
Sony, Sony, Sony.
Now do you understand why I fsckn can't stand them????
If there is an Intellectual Property fracas, 9 out of 10 times Sony's right in the middle of it. Burn in Hell, Akio Morita!
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I always wanted to ruin an iMac with Celine Dion.
On line retailers should make you click through a warning screen before going to your cart...
Also, I've heard it said that some (smaller) labels in Europe have been distributing copy protected CDs since Christmas, with no warning labels (e.g. Osmose productions).
Are we to understand that post-it notes and sharpie pens are now contraband circumvention devices? 3M is not going to like this, not one bit.
You know, that just might be the ticket. Is there a way to tell a District Attourney that he should bring suit against somebody for illegal activity? Tip off the DA that 3M is marketting items which may be used as circumvention devices.
3M will bring in their lawerly guns blazing, and will throw lots of corporate resources at smacking on DMCA; we get our precident by making big business do our fighting for us.
Can something like this work this way?
(As a manufacturer of floppy disks, e.g., media which would be forced to have circumvention protection systems built in if CDTBPA (Is that the right 'nym?), etc, are passed, I'm sure that 3M is interested in getting rid of these laws...)
There's a report over at the NY Times (Free reg, blah blah) announcing that Attorney General John Ashcroft has declared possesion of Sharpie(TM) and Marks A'Lot(TM) permenant markers a felony crime in the United States under the latest anti-terrorism law. He also announced that pending a ruling expected sometime tomorrow Post It(TM) notes and certain colors of dry erase markers may soon be added to the list. When asked for comment Mr. Ashcroft said "All your I-Mac are belong to us!" and declined making any further statements.
A friend of mine did indeed back up a said cd onto his hard drive and has no problems whatsoever in doing so. It was marked on the cd that it was copy-protected, but the protection was not apparent when attempting to back up the disk.
Maybe not all of the cds include the copy protection they say, or maybe there are some cd writers that are not effected by the protection?
You may not own a TV or stereo, preferring to watch movies and listen to music on your PC, but the vast, vast majority of people would prefer to watch television on a decent sized screen and listen to music on a decent set of speakers. Being someone who owns a nice stereo system and a fairly good TV, I have to say that entertainment media like DVDs and CDs on the PC don't even compare. Especially when we have guests over or are having a party....ever try to cram 10 people around a computer to watch a movie?
I'm not agreeing with their flagrant abuse of standards, mind you, I'm just letting you know that there's no dark conspiracy against you....people really do buy TVs and stereos because they prefer them to computerized entertainment.
This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
sorry but no, it's already at +4
Its not copy protection folks... the computer is just smart enough to know it doesn't want to play Celine Dion... It's actually Sanity-Protection on the hardware side!!
Support Indie labels...
Now, if Apple could only come up with an iMac that renders all Celine Dion CDs unplayable...
So - you not only should NOT buy it, but you should write a letter to the producer saying you don't buy products that won't work with your iMac. And if everyone did that, then they might realize their stupidity.
All these three options require rebooting. However, the original post said that this CD by artist of little talent makes your computer unable to reboot!?!?!?!
- They find the line distant up to two centimeters from the outside edge. Draw now with the pin a tangential line, which covers the dividing line accurately, into which outside range project, but does not affect the last audio TRACK. A sticking tire helps as ruler.
I followed these directions and my Celine Dion disk is now stuck in a tire heading east on I-10 at about 75 mph. I feel better already.Try the result out. If it did not fold, the line covers either the dividing line not completely or lies over the last audio trace - here geht's around tenths of a millimeter. Then you wipe away to the pro copying bars with a damp speed and correct after.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
... to prevent them being sued to hell and back? If that happened to me i would sure take it out of their hide and rise a big fuss about it too. Especially in the US of A, where McDonalds has to print "Dangerous: hot beverage" or somesuch on their coffe cups, i'd expect they'll have to make the warning stickers larger than the CD-cover.
...) i'd relly like to see the creators of that copyprotection bleed over this. Also i think this should make for a really nasty press story: before it was just some abstract copyprotection that would make one or the other CD not play, but now it's about destroying ones propertywhen attempting to play the CD.
Maybe someone can think of a way to make them pay really large for damages (put some important documents on that iMac, claim it was the only copy, and you needed it just that day
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
"Or you can hold down the mouse button, which will eject all removable media on reboot (Same for all Macs). "
Which button, the left of the riiiii.....oops, never mind.
MMhm.
And what do you do once it is impossible to get a cd that isn't copy-protected? If they get away with this with a celene dion cd, they will NOT stop there.
What if music is your life, and you really aren't satisfied listening only to mail-order music recorded in people's bedrooms and burned onto CD-Rs, and the music from the independent record label Negativland owns?
It is NOT "that simply". You're saying that if i'm about to have my most beloved form of art fucked up by a huge, soulless corporation, then the only thing i can do is just stop listening to music? You're saying that even though i know even though i buy thousands of dollars of music a year, *even if i stop buying cds forever, this will not impact them enough for them to notice or change their policies because of me?*
Something is NOT RIGHT when your only possible response to something *one* organization decides is to boycott an entire industry.
I'm not going to just "don't buy the damn cds". i'm going to yell, scream, whine, try to create political trouble for the label, and then if they persist steal their music and try to propigate it on p2p networks as much as possible.
One man agitating is just a drop in the bucket for them, but it's a hell of a lot more of a noticeable drop in said bucket than just if the cds i normally buy in a year are taken off the resume sheets of the RIAA's vendors.
Super ugly ultraman
I mean, they can be used as circumvention devices to copy protected digital content, so the DMCA should apply, no?
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Does anyone live near a superstore which sells Macs and non-CDs?
Email: slashdot3@FreeMars.org (Address will be abandoned when it gets spam.)
Why, oh WHY would ANYONE want to buy a Celine Dion CD? Come on people, even the pop chick of the day (according to the top 40 schlock) has more talent than this horse faced, whiny voiced bitch!
Isn't this like a computer virus? Software that causes damage? I thought that was illegal.
http://pixelcort.com/
Simply steal them as I do. Sooner or later, if enough people are bootlegging CDs then crap artists who should really return to the hell from whence they came and are only in this for the money will stop making their torturous "music". Problem solved, though I would prefer to settle this one with Celine DeCunt herself in a backyard firewood match on pay per view. Fucking Canadians, first you give us Rush to get our hopes up and now we must endure your most horrific export to date. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Eh.
Why go to all the trouble of going out, buying a CD (Celine Dion *shudder*), and putting it in my iMac? I might as well walk over to my desk, get some glue, and pour it in there :D. It'll do just the same thing, be cheaper for me, PLUS I'm sure that I will get some nice sound effects/smells being produced :D.
Seriously, though, why does Sony have to be doing this? How can we send them some sort of message that they are screwing themselves over by doing this?
And so we go, on with our lives
We know the truth, but prefer lies
Lies are simple, simple is bliss
I mean, specifically, what i really, really want to do is this: go down to Wherehouse music tomorrow and buy the Celene Dion CD, come back home, put the CD in my quicksilver g4 and fubar it.. then go back to Wherehouse carrying the g4, and whine and panic that their cd broke my computer.. and then whomp the empty cd case and the fubared g4 on their customer service counter and demand that they accept the return. And that they get their merchandise out of my computer.
Wouldn't it be great to see the looks on their faces???
Then I could do it at Sam Goody the next day.
Of course, *i* know that it's easy to solve, and that all you have to do is start up the macintosh with the mouse button held down, and it will eject the cd and you can get on with their life. And i *could* just do that for them. But hey, they broke it. Let them fix it
There will be thousands of clueless newbies who will buy that cd and break their computers with it, and *THEY* will be totally unable to do anything about it (since Apple won't provide phone support AT ALL unless you pay them lots of money, and so the only way to find out about the magic mouse button eject thing is to read the document on Apple's website that explains what to do.. and *how do you read Apple's website if your Macintosh is broken*?).. so.
If Wherehouse music is going to be selling this CD to people whose computers will break as a result, and Wherehouse music isn't going to be there to help explain to them how to restore their imacs to working order.. why should i explain to Wherehouse music how to restore my mac to working order when it's sitting on their counter in front of an underpaid clerk while i hold up the line?? ^_^ I have this vision of this happening all over the country, hundreds of secretly-clued-in mac owners sabotaging their machines and then going back to make music stores actually deal with the fallout of what they've done, instead of making the consumer deal with the fallout.. but of course that won't happen. Of course i won't even get around to doing it myself, because i don't get around to finishing things often and i fucking hate Celene Dion. But it's fun to think about
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
I was wondering the same thing. If the discs don't have the CD logo how are they being sold as CDs and if they DO have the logo can they be sued for misrepresentation of their product?
Yeah, do what you want, I'll see you in hell. NEver buying a fucking cd or whatever the fuck they are selling now again, you hear that?
Done.
I love how the destruction of the customers personal property in the name of copywrite laws just became envogue, even if you're not a pirate. Never have I seen a better case of "we don't need no stinkin' customers". Heck, even the military tests their weapons on inert targets before actually deploying them....
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I just did a quick search for the Celine Dion CD on Amazon.com. They list it as an audio CD. Looks to me like you can buy it, try it out, and return it when it fucks up your computer (sue?) because it is mislabled as being a Compact Disc.
Of course, Celine Dion is just used as an example. Please purchase decent music.
The CD could not "fubar the firmware." However, it could bring out a bug in that firmware that leads to its own state of fubar.
I hate copyprotected CDs. But the fubar'ed iMac CD drive firmware needs to be addressed by Apple.
USNG: 14TPU4605
Finally that annoying office assistant has a purpose. How do you start up office if you can't get the machine to boot though?
MW3 - Mommy, Why Won't it Work?
RCD - Record Companies Downfall
18POS - $18 Piece Of Sh*t
SLS - Sony's Last Stand
These would be potential track songs...heck it could be part of Slashdot's All Time Greatest Hits Volume1.
Anyone want to add more tracks before its finalized?
Every time you listen to a copy-protected CD...
Celine Dion kills an iMac.
Please, think of the iMacs.
Think about this for a moment -- on the one hand we have Sony (and other recording companies) telling us that we shouldn't be copying music and burning CDRs.
On the other hand, Sony are more than happy to take our money when we buy one of their CDR/RW drives, their CDR/RW media and their various audio recording products.
Should they sue themselves under the DMCA I wonder?
Or are they just so stupid that they're hoping nobody will notice this crazy situation?
Apple really isn't to blame, except maybe for buying drives with poorly written firmware.
The drive manufacturer is at fault here--it should not be possible to cause damage by inserting a disk in the drive. Really, the copy protection is only a disk that is corrupted in a specific way--the drive should have been designed to fail gracefully if the disk is corrupted.
aphex twin rules EVEN if you don't like electronic music
pff, geeks...
OK, suppose I really love Celine (yeah, yeah, it's a big hypothetical, I know) and am willing to forgive her for being willing to trash my computer just by playing her crappy music. It would seem that all I'd have to do is put her CD-like-thing into a normal player, connect the output cable to the microphone input of my computer and hit play to digitize an analog version of her disc via my system's input port, now sans the iMac destructo ray. Once this is done, just upload the file somewhere and share it with everyone else. I don't mean to make apologies for the Special Olympians who came up with this scheme, and I'm sure the odd snobbish audiophile will complain that only 99.999% of the audio quality is conserved this way, but the point is that it'd be so easy to defeat any semi-CD encoding scheme with this method that mebbe they'll figure it out and just give up. Celine for the masses! What can I say, I must just have a thing for bony Canadian divas. theMightyE
I see many conflicts of interest here...
First of all, Sony begins using this copy-protection scheme by forcing it's children-companies to begin putting it on their "CD"s. This is apparently an attempt to prevent ripping of said "CD" tracks into MP3 or other digital media files. On the other hand, Sony is one of the larger companies who are currently making hardware to play "legitimate" MP3s, such as the Sony MP505 mini-disc MP3 players, and others.
Now, how does one go about using their Sony MP505 to play MP3s from their new Sony-parented "CD"? I mean, I understand that the MP3 players are just to jump into a market where money is to be had, but still, this seems like a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing.
First of all, as has been stated many-a-time, the patent holder of TRUE CDs should sue the pants off of companies that are creating discs that do not conform to standards, but still market them as CDs. Perhaps the official CD logo is not there on many of these CDs, but do the record labels make any statement that these are not truly Compact Discs?
What other devices might these not work in? Some items made for the computer-oriented user that has a more CD-ROM style interface than a standard CD interface? What about MP3 players that use CD media to play MP3s, but also can play audio CDs? What about a device like my Apex AD-3201. that uses a very standard DVD-ROM drive attached via an ATAPI interface to a decoder? If not these discs, will others that are soon to follow cause problems here as well?
Perhaps I am not technically inclined enough with color book standards to understand what causes the current problems in iMacs, and why there may not be other problems here and there... but I know enough to be mildly concerned about this.
If someday I purchase Star Wars Episode II on DVD and pop it into my Apex (with region encoding and Macrovision turned off), and my DVD and mainboard firmware become damaged... I'm going to be particularly upset.
Does anyone have a webpage up yet that lists not only known discs with this protection, but also known devices, SPECIFICALLY, which will fail and how? Just curious if maybe the full impact has not yet been felt or noticed.
-Xepherys
Peck them to death!
Everybody should just take Sony to small claims court!
Bring your fucked-up iMac -- or buy an iMac and have it fucked up by Sony first -- and bring the iMac to small claims court, asking for Sony to fix your iMac.
If everybody did this, what would Sony do? Deploy a lawyer to every one-horse town in America defending these claims?
If they did, the cost would be exorbitant beyond belief! If they didn't, the cost would be exorbitant beyond belief!
Think small beaks. Biting hard. Lots of them.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
So, working on the assumption that these are not in fact CDs, will stores have to create a new section outside of their Music CD section to display them in?
If they don't, is it false advertising?
i have a sign on my house yard outer periphery which says, "private property, keep out". now if u step one feet on my property, i will kill u. anything wrong with it?
Celine Dion CD damages my Imac? I'm more worried about it damaging my hearing.
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
I was looking at the cd's that I have purchased a few years ago. I can't find the compact disc logo on the cd case, just on the cd itself. Where on the cd case does the "compact disc digital audio" usually appear? I only buy the cd's that I really want, and well if I'm going to spend $16 it better f$&%#@g work in my PC-DVD drive.
I would like to know what effect these "protected" CDs would have on older ROM based Power Macs like mine. (it's a ROM the there's no way to mess with it, example, why you can't change the start-up chime on old Macs.)
beings that I only buy LPs (yes they still make them, yes they do sound better, and yes they do last longer) and burn them to CDR I have no way or desire (to buy a CD by that talentless hack) to test this.
"You can see I know very little about pimp policy." George McGovern.
www.amazon.co.uk has this warning:
This CD includes anti-copying technology that is intended to prevent unlawful copying of the CD with a PC. This may affect playability of the CD on certain computer devices such as PCs and gaming platforms.
This warning is absent at www.amazon.com
"...may affect..." Nothing about anything more hazardous wrt to iMacs. They do, however, specifically call it a CD.
If it looks like a duck....it damn well better BE a duck.
Man, I should get one of those bumper stickers for my van... The moving one... The one about moving.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
Any decision will have to have been made by around 05/14/02 for the album to be pressed and in stores by June 3, the expected release date.
I felt this foreknowledge would allow us to inform Eminem, Interscope, and Universal/Vivendi's how wrong this would be. Too late. We'll just get to complain about it after the fact.
The article about it: http://news.com.com/2100-1023-896391.html.
Beast Buy's rejects wind up there...
Apple info page on the topic:a se.woa/wa/query?searchMode=Expert&type=id&val=KC.1 06882
s html
http://kbase.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/kb
MacSlash reported it here (users comments too):
http://www.macslash.com/articles/02/05/10/239216.
there are some of those nifty Mac tricks to make the CD Rom tray open on restart and whatnot, so not all hope is lost if there is no manual eject hole. It sucks these major label scumbags are selling these things that technically are not audio CDs.... they do not stick to the standards. JERKS!
Anyone remember about 10-12 years ago when a rumor was going around that coating the edge of a CD with a green marker would make it play (sound) better? Interesting, this. Almost makes me wish I was more gullible, but I still can't bring myself to purposefully mar my collection... These damned CDs are just too expensive to risk destroying them just so I can play them in my PC.
main(){char I,l,O[]={'-',1-1,0,(1<<5)-1,0+'-',-10-1,-10,11-0,
I thought you americans would always sue everyone over pretty much everything - so where's the lawsuit? I'm fairly sure that over here in europe, where we still have some consumer protection laws, this CD would violate at least half of them (let's see - misleading advertisement, sale of known defective stuff, intent to damage private property...)
A class-action lawsuit (not possible in europe) could make you rich. Just claim the total sales volume of iMacs as the damage and sue on behalf of all iMac owners (it may or may not help to be one).
More seriously, why isn't there a lawsuit? Are corporations the only ones with a license to abuse the courts?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
This page is from August 8, 2001:
http://www.cdprot.cjb.net/
It describes the same principle.
This sounds like great fun in places that sell macs and CDs. Just sneak a celene dion disk from the music section over the the computer section and drop it in a new imac. Not that i condone evil acts like this, i'm just saying it sounds fun.
BTW- if you are opening CDs in a store and don't intend to buy them, leave the sticker seal on the top edge and just unhinge the jewel case to get the CD out. That way you can put them back still 'sealed.'
I just had another thought- if i did a bit-for-bit copy of the malicious part of the cd and then distributed that to mess up cd drives, would i be a malicious hacker?
Well, this is great. I was just about to order the Episode II CD from Amazon.com, but since this has the same copy protection BS, I'm downloading the MP3's instead. Fuck them.
I want to play it on my computer since that's the *only* place I ever listen to music. And if they aren't going to let me, I'll find another way to do it. Good thing they just lost my $18, I'd rather spend it on something else anyway.
You know that little tiny hole in your CD-ROM that doesn't do anything? It looks sort of like it might have an LED in it but doesn't? Guess what happens when you stick a paperclip in there...
In other news, power outage prevents computers from playing music CDs or even booting.
Clueless iMac users whine like little bitches: "This should be covered under warranty!"
Your CD drive will self destruct in 5 seconds.
If it's a CD, then you're supposed to find it from a store under the label "audio CDs", if it's not, then is the store owner liable for selling dynamites that look like a cigars from the cigar stand? It seems like we need at least different stands in stores for "mostly playable discs that resemble CDs but are not"
Preserve old classics: copy your collection onto all hard drives.
Of course, the Prophet Peter Abrams knew all about this in 1997. http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=970829 (Or read from http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=970825 for the fully story - only 3 more strips!)
Subject line says it all.
I am interested to hear of more Celine Dion contraversy on slashdot. Many of you readers might consider this off topic, but I would like to discuss what happened when I inserted my recently purchased Celine cd. Nothing abnormal. The machine played it and CDDB even got the track listing for it. It played perfectly. The downside is that I used my debt card to buy (aka experiment with) this disc -- and in doing so overdrafted my bank account. I was unaware of me going into the red (i am a poor broke college student) and ended up nearly $500 dollars in the hole because of this horrible cd. Pfft, and the RIAA wants to know why I dont buy cd's -- :)
Celine Dion considered harmfull
"There is a terrorist behind every bush"
Celine Dion fans would most probably be people who don't care (or know) what their computer runs; which means mostly Windows users.
Since Windows is the default OS, Windows users' tastes would be (on average) more mainstream than fringe users. Mac users would probably have more piercings/tattoos than the average person and would be likely to listen to eclectic bands most people have never heard of.
And if so, is it just a notice that you may not read?
:-)).
What if it's some huge "poison" sign? Maybe it's some band like Biohazard (or Poison
Used disks may not come with the leaflet or original jewel box.
What if you're having a party or checking out the CDs your friend brought in some CD bag?
With all this talk about how these CD's are not "CD"'s, it strikes me that a store selling them couldn't properly call itself a "CD" store. I think, perhaps retailers should separate these from the other, proper, CDDA discs.
A warning on the packaging and on the disc itself is insufficient for two reasons that I can see: 1) It would NEVER occur to the average consumer (who's only just figured out that thing isn't a cup-holder) that not only is a CD not a CD, but that it could 'break' their computer. Yes, I've seen the explanations that the hardware isn't really broken, but we ALL know that the average user isn't technically aware, and things must be kept VERY simple.
Reason #2) The packaging is not always available. I just hopped over to CDNOW, and there is NO MENTION WHATSOEVER on the page to indicate this is not a CDDA disc. It is listed in two formats: CD and Tape (and the CD is still more expensive than cassette, go figure)
Knowing that retailers are extremely unlikely to provide this service any time soon, may I humbly propose we create a CDNOT.com to catalog all these unplayable discs, and make a plugin available that will warn you, should you attempt to purchase one?
These people looked deep into my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined.
My condolences.
... making those damned Celine Dion discs oughtta be agin' tha law.
It's too bad that there are people out there willing to support the media moguls even when they do sh*t like this
Breaking iMacs is kinda bad too i guess.
I purchased it yesterday in Zurich, Switzerland and it also contains the protection. I was able to listen to it on my laptop by only adding a small piece of scotch on the outer layer of the disc.
A friend of mine bought that CD. It plays (and rips) fine in my computer -- even on Window Media Player, for pete's sake -- except for the last track, which won't rip or play. I dunno how effective you call that...
The hold-down-the-button trick is very well known among Mac users, and all three of them are documented thoroughly.
....
So, basically you're saying that all 3 mac users are well documented ?
That means I know 67% of all mac users
The drive isn't failing. It's doing what it's suposed to do. It's reading the equivalent of the boot sector of the CD, and attempting to boot the software on the CD. The software on the CD is then doing deliberately malicious things to the computer. Any computer that's capable of booting or automatically running software from any media is vulnerable to attack from what is in effect a boot sector virus.
It does seem to me that Sony are sailing very close to some legal winds here. It would not seem to me to be so much a problem if the automatic-load-and-go program opened a window on the Mac screen saying 'this disc cannot be played on Macintosh computers', but this deliberate malicious damage seems to me quite serious.
Mind you, it's arguable that anyone who buys a Celine Dion record deserves all they get...
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Trust me on this one. I just have a feeling.
You know, despite the fact that most geeks are not fans of Satan... er, Celine Dion, a lot of us are married to non-geek females who are. My wife knows almost nothing about computers except how to turn ours on, browse the net, email, etc. The idea that she might go out and buy one of these @#$%&* CDs and come home and unwittingly screw something up while I'm not around makes me a little nervous. I mean, I can tell her about CDs, but what's next?
--Rick
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
In your case, I'd say the drive that burned your CD-R is at fault. Saying that Apple is at fault because these "CDs" can ruin the drives is just ludicrous. It would be like me saying that Nissan is at fault because when I put a new synthetic oil in my car, it ruined the engine. Just as my beef in that case would have to be with the oil maker and not Nissan, if I had a drive toasted by one of these discs, my problem would be with the disc's manufacturer, not with Apple. It is likewise absurd that Apple should just fix the machines and then turn around and try to bill Sony or whoever. Just the logistics in doing that correctly would be hideous, let alone trying to collect any actual money from the disc manufacturers. In the end, it sucks for the users, but the manufacturers of the discs are the ones to blame, not Apple.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
This reminds me of that story a while ago that the iTunes-installer could fry your harddrive's partition table in certain cases. Why the heck would a regular installer program be messing with partition tables? Unless of course it was a bug in the filesystem drivers that was triggered for the first time by iTunes...
Apple are *not* responsible. The CD producers are.
I'd suggest making a claim in the small claims court against the retailer. Apple have supplied the basic evidence you need. If you keep the claim relatively low, repair costs plus *minimal* damage for your time/distress and below the cost of a lawyer for the day, they will not even defend it. You get an automatic win.
Targeting the retailer also applies strong market pressure not to stock the CD.
We all know that the result of the class-action lawsuit will be that the record industry will settle, and pay their legal fees in product by sending everyone a $25 gift certificate for one of those giant overpriced chain stores, where $25 might just cover the price of a new CD.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Lol, its a good thing that these would still be illigal without the proper labeling.
Theres a rule, that i think you learn in business school, its pretty important and goes something like "don't piss off your customers in any way unless you have a damn good marketing spin campagne to fool the suckers into coming back"
I don't care, i have never bought a CD in my life and im not about to start. Why bother paying for something when you can download it or rip other peoples? no its not fair to the record companys but then, life is not fair. People screw me around all the time, and you know what? i couldn't give the slightest crap weather all the major record labels' bosses dropped dead or a plane load of bad artists was smashed into their studios. lol we will probably see activists running around stores spray painting all the protected CDs.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
It's like those Micro$oft computers, which if you stick in a non-bootable floppy disk, the bootup HANGS! It never skips A: to check if you have Windows or DOS on C:, as many of us in fact do. You have to manually eject the floppy and re-boot the machine to get it to work again.
;)
Well, Apple got that one right by ejecting non-bootable floppies on bootup, anyway. Shame on all those PC users for buying defective hardware!
(OK, Ok, calm down, the last thing I want is a flame war, just couldn't resist.
Dear AC,
I wonder one thing... Would we see 90% of those "Apple is stupid, they should think" style posts if same thing somehow happened on Linux/BSD?
Be objective... Please!
Knowing that retailers are extremely unlikely to provide this service any time soon, may I humbly propose we create a CDNOT.com to catalog all these unplayable discs, and make a plugin available that will warn you, should you attempt to purchase one?
I know this may be stating the obvious (since this link has been made available on Slashdot many times) but there is a site that is taking on the (unfortunately) increasing task of cataloguing all "copy-protected" CDs. It's called Fat Chuck's and it not only lists "copy-protected CDs" in various regions but also, among other things, gives help to indie artists and gives a list of banned books throughout the world. You can also submit errors and comments on "copy-protected CDs".
If you find one in a store, excercise your customer (I hate the word consumer, it reinforces this cattle mentality corporations have about us citizens) rights and take it back, clear and simple. What they sold you is not a CD, according to the Red/Blue Book specifications and you have a right to return the product for exchange or refund unless the store specifically says otherwise. And I damn well hope somebody takes legal action because if this latest news is any indication, the record companies are not only selling you products that won't work in your equipment (ie. play and rip) but will actually intentionally damage your equipment (ie. fucking up firmware and forcing reboots, causing potential loss of data). I'm just so sick of this shit.
----------
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer our friend.
Ah, one important point:
/apparently/ affect the firmware of an iMac (!) but this could turn out to be a blessing in disguse....used in articles aimed at the general public, it's excellent amunition in the propoganda war against copy protection.
These disks are *not* Compact Discs!
It is notable that they do not display the CD logo (and are not permitted to by Phillips) because they do NOT follow the format of Compact Discs. In fact, in place of where the 'Compact Disc' logo normally would be is a warning informing you not to use this disk in a Personal Computer.
I agree this would be really awful of Apple if Apple did not repair them, but I expect they would (Apple customer services is excellent, if sometimes a little slow (at least IME), they will even repair stupid damage caused by the user at no charge.).
I expect that they are covering themselves in case this becomes an epedemic.
Of course it's worrying that these CD's can
I think Apple should sue the "CD" makers for creating intentionally destructive devices intended to cause support costs (angry customers, phone support, returns), remarkably similar to real CDs. Overestimate some FUD noumbers, particularly for unsatisfied customers, say X% of customers scared away x X$ average sales pr. customer (which is almost impossible to determine anyway) and you'll see some nice multi-million figures. Even RIAA don't like to take on big companies.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
(This is not aimed at the previous poster, more a general comment.)
Just like to point out that that the discs in question are NOT CD's.
They do not have the Compact Disc logo on them, or on the packaging, nor do they call themselves Compact Discs because they are not actually Compact Discs.
Phillips have forbidden them to use the term Compact Discs because the do not ahear to the format (which is quite strict - a genuine CD would of course work just fine in an iMac).
Sure they happen to work in some Compact Disc players, but they are not CD's any more than DVD's are CD's or MiniDiscs are CD's and that what's very important the public inderstand about these new discs - they are not Compact Discs, but an entirely new format (that just happens to work in some exiting CD players).
Any Compact Disc player that strictly adhears to the CD format will not play these discs.
Best regards,
"Physically compatible"
So If I take a bunch of C4 explosive, press it down into a CD shape and put it in then it should still be okay, EVEN if I put a small detonator in that is kicked off by exposure to the light in the CD laser.
Repeat for fragile glass, cookie dough etc etc...
The "thing" that is put in is not a CD as the manufacturers of it have not obeyed the first thing in the spec.... compatibility.
If you wire your Motherboard directly to the mains and it gets fried then you are a fool, if you get supplied with a PC without a transform its the producer of the PC not the motherboard that you should blame.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
In an effort to contribute to the righteous capitalist fight for copyright owners of our dear mates at Sony Entertainment, we have designed this ad to warn innocent citizens of the dangers of PIRACY.
Give that music-burners macintosh-users communists what they deserve! Join the fight! Post this ad near your workplaces and in your children's schools, show them you care!
DO NOT LET THE EVIL PIRATES WIN!
The ad is available for viewing and printing here.
Bill Gates Has No Penis.
In case you think you need national acts--to paraphrase from one of Rochester, NY's local bands (Burning Snella in their song "Local Music") national bands are just local bands from someplace else.
If that's not incentive enough, no F--- at Sony gets so much as a penny.
--- Jason Olshefsky
Karma: Poser (mostly affected by adding this line long after everyone else did)
Wow, with all this copy protection in the CD now it is almost worth the $18 now! I guess they are just trying to make CDs more expensive to make so they can justify the price!
Good for them.....I am glad they are finally getting the price more inline with the actual costs!
Cheers
The CBS Radio World News Roundup just mentioned Apple's warning about these CDs. I was pleased to hear that the slant they took was that computers are designed to play standard CDs, and copy protected discs aren't. With the story getting this much play, I doubt that this type of copy protection is going to be around very long. (Undoubtedly to be replaced by some other equally-annoying attempt)
... to tell me, please, whether writing on a copy protected CD with a black marker really works? My God, one of the main points of this story has hardly been addressed, except to make jokes about banning post it notes and markers. I guess people are too busy flaming record companies and Apple to address something constructive.
I'm sorry, but people are posting a lot of drivel here and I'm getting tired of it. Mod me into oblivion for saying this, but one of the main points of this story remains unexamined.
What's up with that?
Lets have Apple fix it! Just because nobody in the QA department would admit to listening to Celine Dion.......
People,
How about going around this another way. I've just checked the amazon.co.uk website and this 'CD' is referred to as an 'Audio CD' with an appropriate disclaimer attached. Now if you want to do something, why not email Amazon and ask them to stop referring to this 'CD' as a Audio CD (which it isn't as it doesn't adhere to the CD standard) and that they need to recategorise these "pseudo CD". This might not have much success but at least Amazon might get pissed off enough to drop the album (I doubt it though).
While we're at it why don't we try all the other online CD retailers that sell dubious discs!
Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. Because the Apple product is functioning correctly according to its design specifications, any fee assessed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for repair service will not be Apple's responsibility.
science is a religion
read the tech note (previous comment).
open apple sequence? Um, wasn't that an Apple ][ thingie? The 'open' apple was replaced by the sqiggly command symbol about the time Prince changed his name to the other squiggly symbol. Prince changed his name back, though.
Macs only had one apple key even when it was an Apple, so 'open' apple is a bit redundant.
cmd-option-O-F and eject cd works, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you like working in Forth or are feeling especially masochistic, since holding down the left mouse button is much easier.
>voltage to your motherboard through the (onboard) video.
Years ago, the TRS-80 (later dubbed Model 1) used three identical connectors (DIN?) on the back. I knew someone who toasted his when reaching behind to plug it together. It never *occurred* to an engineer that anyone would use the same connector like that, and he plugged the power supply to the monitor output . .
hawk
Yup.. who cares about copy protection?.. as long as my standalone DVD player can read the disc and it outputs the audio digitally (optically), my aging Turtle Beach soundcard on my computer has an optical-input that would gladly accept the signal to record on my computer digitally. So I would have to record in real-time at 1X, but the copy-protected CD would never enter my computer dirctly and I could copy the audio just fine to more CDs or make MP3s with them. The RIAA can eat my ass! Before they are done, a CD won't be able to play in a CD player. :)
Be careful if you decide to try using a dry erase marker. I once wrote on the label side of a Verbatim CD-R with a blue dry erase marker and it disolved the surface and caused it to flake. You could see through the disk in places. I dunno what it would do on the data side of the disk though, but you might take it into consideration.
Isn't that in one of those American Express commercials?
:)
hawk
A better solution would be to make the case into a Scroll of Punishment--hopefully the steel ball will slow the tasteless buyer enough on the way to the player that he'll have time to reconsider and never put it in
hawk, who also understands that opening a Merle Haggard CD should be a Blessed Scroll of Remove Curse . . .
I heard there was a patch to cdparanoia to get around various copy protections schemes like MediaCloq etc. Does anyone know where to get a copy of that?
Also I heard there was an article in 2600 Hacker's Quarterly a few issues back with more info on circumvention. Does anyone have that info online?
you would first have to admit that you bought a Celiene Dion CD and an iMac... I'm actually suprised that this problem ever came to light.
-Cnik
If your software does crash, it is obviously operator error.
A small piece of code that is hidden inside some other file or data medium and is automatically run when you try to access that data. The program then causes damage to your computer.
Nah. That's not a virus. That's a Trojan Horse.
Upon inserting a copy-protected CD, the following dialog box appears:
"Warning: the media you have inserted is masquerading as a bona fide Compact Disc. We here at Apple are determined to kick the record companies in the nuts, because our company is run by freedom-loving hippies. Click Eject to remove the media, click Burn to fry the disc with the internal laser, or click Sosumi to link directly to a class-action lawsuit."
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Who is Apple's OEM supplier for CD-ROM drives? Could it be Sony. who is a major drive manufacturer? Poetic justice...
In other news Celine Dion sues 3M, the inventor of post-it notes under the DMCA for the production of a copy protection circumvention technology.
I find it interesting that they can put and image in a song that will show up on a spectrograph, but they can't create a CD that can play on computer and not be copied.
I guess that their ineptitude is to our advantage, because a real computer user doesn't use an iMac.
Film makers are the reason we pull our feet back when something brushes against them.
So, is RIAA going to sue the magic marker and post-it industries out of existence, or at least get the distribution/sale of such DMCA protection circumvention tools banned?
Man, I'm going to have to find something else to scribble notes on and with, or find a way to recycle the pile of post-its on my desk. Perhaps pencils won't be banned, which will make reusing the paper easier anyway.
Hmmm.
If the retailer told you it was a CD, then maybe. If they told you it would play on your stereo, then maybe. If they called themselves a CD shop, and didn't have any actual CDs, then maybe.
But most retailers I know of are "music stores." Most staff would shrug and go "I dunno" if you asked them if it followed red-book specs. The retailer should have a MORAL responsibility, but they almost definitely don't have a LEGAL one. They'd have to work pretty hard to explicitly mislead their customers far enough to get in any trouble.
There's an interesting articleon C|NET about whether Apple should be responsible or liable. The answer is pretty clear: Should they be liable if you put a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in your CD tray? Well then, why should they be responsible if you put one of these things in?
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Isn't this malicious code? A virus? It's even more crippling than any current Mac viruses. I'm surprised that Microsoft isn't trying to patent this technology already. It could potentially target a better demographic than any email ever could. Imagine being able to disable the computers of all Kenny G, Yanni, Celine Dion or Enya fans. It actually doesn't sound so bad! The musicians are going to be the ones that get hurt in the end for even participating with this. Their incompetent fans will struggle to fix their $2000 computer and will hold it against them. This is going to get completely smacked down in court. There are already laws protecting us against this kind of thing. They prosecuted the guy who wrote the Melissa virus... so they can do the same for anyone who knowingly harms your desktop. Plus it even encroaches on fair use laws. Might want to buy your Star Wars Episode 2 soundrtrack now. It will be a huge collector's item... Just like that stupid Milli Vanilli disc.
How do you figure this is an apple hardware bug? Apple's cdrom drive is designed to play cd's this so called cd does not conform to the cd standards thus the problem. It's obviously the manufacturers of the disk fault. They should put big warnings on these things that they may damage your equipment. I can't see how the RIAA thinks this will stop the spread of piracy since now I know these disks may jack up my equipment I am even less likely to buy one and I'm more likely to got to kazaa, imesh, or bearshare and download, so I don't hose up the equipment that I spent money on. The only people this copy protection hurts are the people who were spending money on CD's in the first place. This is the most jacked up approach to stopping piracy and what is the most jacked up is at the end of the year when record sales have gone down again they will blame it on file swapping software and not this copy protection technology and thier poor treatment of thier customers.
If your not cheating your not trying. If your not trying your not winning and if your not winning why play?
How about just quit purchasing your albums from the large record companies? There are so many bands, labels and studios out there that are against (or are ignoring) this large record companies battle. Try independent music. I was introduced to it a few years ago by friends and my younger brother. There's music from any genre there for you to listen to. Try out www.epitonic.com. They have so many great bands listed. I keep on thinking that I've come across all of the indie bands that I enjoy listening to, but at least once a week another band surfaces.
...a program in an autostart data track that formates your hard drive?
darkcookie
A very basic principle of design is that you never count on external input being sane or well-formed. It is an Apple defect for their machine to behave this poorly when given a nonstandard CD. At worst, it should decide "I can't make sense of this" and eject the disc.
I can understand how they didn't take all the cases into account -- they probably didn't anticipate that people would be trying to play defective CDs and probably they didn't have any defective CDs to test with, so I'm not gonna say "Apple sucks" or something dumb like that. Almost anyone can fall for a dirty trick like that -- once. Nevertheless, it is ultimately their fault. Hopefully the next wave of machines will be more resistant.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
The more interesting question to me is, given what it can do to a Mac, what would happen if you threw this into a Vaio laptop? Would it magically work there?
Sony: "Hey, buy our laptops, they're the only ones guaranteed to play all CDs out there! Even copy-protected CDs!" Bastards. Next there'll be EULAs on the CDs that grant you license to use the CD only on an approved brand of computer, and only if you've paid your listener license fee for the year and can verify that in writing.
"So on one hand, honey is an amazingly sophisticated and efficient food source. On the other hand it's bee backwash."
engrish!!!!
Newly Tasty Improved Enhanced in german
moo.
I agree! Apple is doing the right thing by not covering this.
I'd love to see Apple take it a step further and begin posting large warnings in their stores and on their website warning their potential customers. Now, that would piss off the RIAA, wouldn't it?
Would Office Depot and Office Max and any other office supply store in the US be sued for selling these clear violations of the DMCA? After all, if posting the DeCSS code in any form is a violation then wouldn't selling Post-its and Sharpies also be a violation?
This would make a great Simpson's episode!
-Goran
Carpe Scrotum - The only way to deal with your competition.
you have to change your business model because the
world has changed.
cut costs like every other industry.
lower your prices.
people intuitively know that online music costs
you very little after your intital costs.
you want to charge me how much for a 30 year old
doors tune ?
It think it's time we passed a law putting music
into public domain after 50 years.
ps. your customers all hate you and being in the
music industry these days is rapidly becoming as
bout as cool as being in the oil industry.
iow.
you are becoming Dick Cheney.
Drop your prices significantly now or prepare
for the world to dance on your grave.
CDnow lists A New Day Has Come as a CD. Since it's not actually a CD, isn't this misleading? If Philips informed them that it's not a CD, and they kept misusing the term, wouldn't that be fraud?
I generally feal guilty about grabbing mp3s where I haven't bought the disk. But even a goody-two shoes like me doesn't feel guilty about copying a disk with this dumb copy-protection stuff. I figure that if I wanted the music enough to buy it the CD, I still couldn't because it won't work with my OS (linux).
And since then my music has been limited to what discs have been copy-protected. I hate country, so Charlie Pride wasn't anything I was interested. Boy bands are a similair story.
But NOW I CAN STEAL CELINE DION! And, if other posters are correct, then I can steal the Ep2 soundtrack without feeling guilty!!!
Things are looking better all the time!
Free unix account: freeshell.org
I used my hifi/computer setup to put the entire CD on Kazaa @ 98kbs this afternoon. :)
Nobody seems to have downloaded any of it yet though (lol).
I will part exchange the CD for JK2 tomorow
loply.com
WASHINGTON, D.C. - May 14, 2002 - DEA BUSTS SUSPECTED SHARPIE HOARDING OPERATION
DEA spokesman Captain L. I. Bee released information today of a successful "sting" operation where thousands of Fully Automatic Terrorist Media Stealing Assault Weapons (formerly known as Sharpie markers) were being rebranded and sold as hallucinogenic inhalants.
"It was shocking", said Captain L. I. Bee. "Everywhere, on shelves, in boxes, were hundreds, perhaps thousands of these insidious devices. While our friends and colleagues in the media industries are joining hands to stamp out media terrorism, the DEA will not be standing by the wayside in this matter. We have classified Sharpies as a controlled substance and, with time, we expect a mandatory death sentence for anyone caught making, selling, or posessing any such device."
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Why doesn't this ever seem to show up on CNN or Fox News? The average consumer has no knowledge about this issue because it only shows up on news sites like slashdot and arstechnica. It's a widespread threat to consumer freedom that is being largely ignored by mainstream news channels.
>it's arguable that anyone who buys a Celine Dion record deserves all they get...
Ok, but I can envision many scenarios where a person with otherwise good taste can find himself in the position of using a publication in the course of work or research that he might not use for entertainment. Say I'm working on my masters' and researching the irish whistle and uileann pipe in lat 20th century popular music. Guess what artist had material with such a complement? So there is a way I could be directly affected without even being a fan of the music.
How about this: A youth puts this disc in a public (or school) library's Mac. The computer "breaks." The librarian, who is half gator, has the visitor banned, labeled as a 'hacker', expelled from school, prosecuted under some 'for the children' statute, and nobody but slashdot readers ever considers that it
s SONY who should be punished.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
It's extremely stupid that Windows tries to read your disks when they are removed. It has irritated me often. MacOS handles that much better by actually removing open windows/drives when you eject a storage device. That isn't possible with a hardware-controlled eject. Learning to reboot with the mouse-button down isn't that hard in those rare cases that a CD won't eject.
PS. What does the key sequence for booting have to do with this (pressing 'c' on my 1997 G3)?
The Drowned and the Saved - Primo Levi
Of course, after flash BIOS came out, that might not be quite so accurate anymore.
Nevertheless, I wish I owned a mac or two to test this on. More likely the disk being locked in the drive and not being removed is simply causing the mac to not boot, because it was configured to boot off a CD if it recognized the disc as bootable.
I'd be more interested to see that some hobbyist tried it in a mac, and instead of shipping the mac back to the dealer like an average user, he/she removed the CD and verified that the system returned to its normal happy mac icon boot sequence.
Once again giving up the ability to mod down the trolls to add a bit of insight that appears to have been missed.
Simply put... no! Or at least not really. Even 'swordgeek's thoughts on moral responsibility fall a touch shy of target here.
Currently, I am gainfully employed at my local CompUSA. I sell iMacs to customers every so often. Now that I am aware of this issue, I will surely point it out to my future customers. However, before just a few days ago, I was wholly unaware of this issue, and therefore had no way to be morally OR legally responsible.
The same applies with music stores. As was mentioned previously, I doubt that most employees of your local FYE, Harmony House, Barnes and Noble, or other music store even KNOW what colorbook standards ARE, little well if an individual disc comforms to one. I would further assume that Sony, et al, did not send out pre-release information about the new copy-protected discs except POSSIBLY to say, "Hey... these are copy protected". Therefore, even moral responsibility seems not realistic.
However, perhaps we can all educate our local music/Apple dealers. It surely never hurts!
-Xeph
Aside from the main comments about this article... what laws might be affected by this. Currently, I believe, Federal law prohibits retailers from taking returns on opened CD-based products, as it could be copied and break copyright laws. Since these new discs are copy-protected, do they still fall under the same laws? Also, since they are not technically CDs, does the same apply?
What reaction has anyone received when trying to return one of these discs? What course of action seems to work best? Are there any retailers that are recognizing this issue currently?
I'd personally love to hear some reactions to this.
-Xeph
Greetings All, "First Time User, First Time Reader" As for this issue, I have done some research into the matter and looked up the all familar "Fraud and Related Activity in Connection with Computers" 18 U.S.C 1030. Do to space length I will only post this clause from Section A, Sub-section 5,A,i which states: Whoever - "knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer;" will be subjected to this law. Therefore this is the question: Does the "Audio Disc" contain coding which fries the computer (IE: iMac)? [Strong Case] Or do iMac's lock-up because of the unknown format of the "Audio Disk" (basically then this would be a hardware problem)? [Weak Case] At any rate, as we all know with our law system, "Anyone can sue anyone for anything." Good luck on the case! Dracas
Now, I *still* think that a boycott is in order (along with supporting independent artists). Even if we have no *legal* right to play music cd's on our computers (and dvd's on our linux box), we can certainly assert our desire to do so - by only support companies that allow us to do these things.
Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand (bash.org)
And then download the MP3's off Morpheus. I wonder if the RIAA cares if you bought the CD first or not... hmmmm...
From Apple's Knowledgebase Article regarding this it implies that this product (and a couple of others) fall into that category of disks that do not qualify for the CD logo. Therefore they are not CDs.
However, stores are marketing this as if it were a CD:
* CDNow lists it as a "CD"
* Amazon lists the media type as "Audio CD"
* CD Universe lists it as a "CD"
If you have purcased a copy protected disk without the CD logo, and it was marketed as an actual CD, you do have grounds to return the disk. Even more so if you got it online and had no opportunity to examine the logo and see warning labels on the disk. If they give you any problems, report them to the Better Business Bureau and/or your state's Attorney General.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
It's only the german release which is handled by Zomba. Drukqs is released on a nice little company called Warp Records and they don't do this stuff.
Why all this talk about lawsuits?! You are not possibly going to make a big enough financial impact with a class action lawsuit to teach this company a lesson! How about jail time? As has been mentioned before...this sounds very very much like a virus. Virus writers go to jail...why not record company executives?
And I thought that nothing would make me buy a Celine Dion CD but now that I know they'll break IMacs I'll take 2. Wish I could get those hunks of junk off my real network!
Sony can make a CD with content that disables your CD-ROM and screws with your firmware.
If I did that, it'd be equal to a "virus" and I'd be thrown in jail.
BTW - Kinda ironic how the ads for Sony's new NetMD recorder ENCOURAGE you to rip music.
..."Audio Disk"...
Disc = Optical storage (CD, DVD)
Disk = Magnetic storage (HD, Floppy)
might wanna get that straight before the lions around here eat you alive.
I was really expecting to see something along the lines of the fact that Celine Dion can kill computers with her music. We knew it had the same effect on mice and other small rodents, but this is definite a step up for her.
The software publishers association today announced a new copy protection scheme for computer software.
The new CDs containing the most commonly pirated software will no loger function when placed in the CD-ROM drives of personal computers.
When asked how customers would install the software the SPA spokesperson stated "That's not for us to worry about, we're just out to protect the rights and bottom lines of our member companies. We feel it necessary to prevent the ability to make exact digital copies of our software, and this is the only way we can thing to accomplish that goal."
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
How about that. In some cases the rumors about a green marker pen improving CD play are true.
But does this mean that possessing a green or black marker pen is now illegal under the DMCA because it's a tool for defeating digital copy protection?
++PLS
Finally, someone who realizes that Aphex Twin is a huge joke, that should never have seen any success. Richard James intentionally irritates through his music, and yet he just beomes all the more popular. It's so wrong.
my father bought the Celine Dion CD, and we tried to put it in the PC (running Windows): we could listen to it (analog access), and we could rip it and encode it mp3, with both CD2WAV32 (the mp3 was sounding good) and CDEX (but CDEX was reporting a lot of jetter errors, and I did not have time to listen to it). Just my 2c
How is the above comment "redundant?" This is exactly what happened with the class-action lawsuit against Nintendo during the 8-bit days when they used lock-out chips to prevent real competition for NES games and kept prices artificially high.
Thought this was funny, since M$ is into digital rights manglment...
On a Windows XP machine, I did the following:
Insert CD, view list of the tracks explorer (like any CD)
Double-clicked a track to play it and Windows blue screens.
Machine boots, hangs (while trying to mount the CD?) Eject the CD and wait for startup to finish.
Put the CD back in the (same) drive. Can now play
the tracks.
Note: PC (and drives) are only a few months old.
Note Also: Linux PC could read CD with cdda2wav but one drive refused to read the CD because of a bad "lead-out" time (?)
There is a premise of US law called "selective enforcement" which basically comes down to the fact that you can't arrest one person doing something and not arrest another person for breaking the same law at the same time.
In all seriousness, could Sony *not* suing marker companies be used against them in a case where someone was being sued for writing tools to disable the copy protection with software? It's not like Sony could say that they didn't know about this "tool" (felt-tip pens) being used to thwart DMCA, so if they don't sue marker companies, they are guilty of selective enforcement.
It's too bad that the system has to be used against itself to kill bad laws such as DMCA.
Interestingly, here is what CNN and Apple have to say about it.
Selected Ambient Works 85-92 is actually quite nice.. The first time I heard it back in '93 was one of those pivotol listening experiences that turned me on to electronic music in general. Selected Ambient Works II, while quite a departure from the former, is probably one of the most creative, yet disturbing pieces of music I've ever heard. Sort of thing you would listen to after eating a tray of magic brownies while driving through the industrial nightmare landscape of the New Jersey Turnpike.
As for his most recent stuff, basically anything since '95/'96, I've been seriously disappointed. Perhaps the fame got to his head, as the one time 'Mozart in Mirrorshades' seems content to produce albums full of mostly shrieking noise.