"hey boss, we had a problem with linux at our datacenter. but don't worry... the sysadmins at geico uploaded a fix (as did the folks at google and some other companies i can't be bothered to look up to see if they're running linux)"
"to make a long story short, we're still saving money by running linux -- and we're patched now, while our competitors are waiting for microsoft to acknowledge there's even a problem."
Actually, I've done quite a few installs. Mostly AIX, and (cringe) SCO's "Unix"... i do run Fedora on my personal and work desktops, so I guess that makes me a Linux fanatic.
I think you missed my point on the rest. Microsoft has this tendency to not just stick their finger in everyone else's pies, but to try to take the whole thing. The problem is, they haven't finished their OWN pie. If they can't come up with an OS that is stable and secure (and that IS their core business), how can they think they'll be able to do a better job throwing resources at non-core projects? Granted, they do have considerable resources to throw around. But my point is that they should try to do at least ONE thing right before moving on to the next.
This whole attitude of "winner take all" is why people are switching from Microsoft to other technologies. Who wants to be locked into a solution owned by a company with a take-no-prisoners attitude? Like the universe isn't big enough for Microsoft AND Google to co-exist? Ballmer is just full of shit.
And if he'd shut up long enough to listen to his customers and got his army of programmers and developers to focus on their CORE business -- OPERATING SYSTEMS -- maybe they'd have a decent product. But what the hell do I know?
I know that a big part of my job is to CHOOSE platforms for my clients' systems, and guess what? Haven't done a MS install in two years. Not because I'm a Linux fanatic, but because I weigh silly things like uptime, scalability, usability, compatability and a bunch of other "bilities".
If MS wants to go into the search business and has the balls to think they've got what it takes to be the Google-killer, more power to them. Have at it. Just give me a little of what they're smoking in the boardroom.
I, for one, am actually very pleased with its performance. I just opened a 1364 page pdf that's loaded with graphics in about 3 seconds (FC3 on a 2.8GHz P4). The same doc opened in gpdf takes about 20 seconds and is a real bitch to use since you have to manually type in whatever page number you want to read and whenever you click a page in the table of contents, it jumps to the top of the document (wtf is that? a feature?).
Yeah... all that personal data, all that business data, basically every bit ever recorded by anyone. I don't care how good their security is or how good their privacy policy is, that much data makes for too sweet a target. Forget the script kids, this is the kind of wet dream the FBI, CIA, NSA pray for -- not to mention every hacking genius from the former Soviet-bloc countries. I like Google and I'm sure they have tighter security than I do, but I'm a small target value-wise and a system like this would make them the biggest bullseye on the planet.
There's potential for mis-use, but talk about an eye-opener. How many average citizens would take the time to request this data from the FEC?
A quick lookup of my street address was extremely insightful. I recognized many of the names from my years in the business community and guess what? Most of the Republican donors are owners and officers of companies who have been laying off workers (and outsourcing their work) with most contributing $2000 checks from every person in their household. The Dems, on the other hand, had more contributors, but they were much smaller contributions ($50 - $500) and mostly from small business owners and average Joe's -- many retirees.
Now I can see for myself why the Bushies have over $100M at their disposal, while Kerry's only at $22M or so. Knowing where the money is coming from helps show where government will be going -- and if Bush wins, it will be going into Big Business's back pocket.
I had to re-read this three times and verify that it was actually a CNN article before I could believe it. Darl has got to be the world's worst liar -- he just keeps making shit up, never backs it up, and then makes up more. And if you don't buy his lies, he sends you a bill for stealing his company's IP.
After reading this, I can just imagine a typical SCO board meeting -- "y'know what Darl? this IP thing had a very tiny shot at success in the beginning, but the pump and dump strategy you proposed isn't working any more. And now you're claiming that we own the IP rights to photosynthesis!? Does that mean we own the patents to digital photography? HP already bought one of our *nix licenses. Do you think they'll be stupid enough to pay us more so they can continue to sell photo printers? If not, maybe we should claim ownership of cell-division --- might be able leverage that against the mobile phone companies."
Very nice lighting effects, but I have to wonder what that would be like in a real home. I step on enough Legos and other painful objects on the way to the bathroom at 3:00am as it is.
I've made the same realization. Good tech jobs requiring what used to be not-so-popular skills and paid 50-60k were everywhere. Now it seems everyone and their dog can write code and the employers know that -- no more 50-60k jobs.
I got the boot from a good job only to find out they hired someone new at half the rate just a couple of weeks later. And now, having been actively looking for work for the past 9 months, I see that the few companies that *are* hiring are paying even less than that.
I'm no longer looking for the good tech jobs anymore. Instead, I've enrolled at the local university to earn a B.A. in English -- or maybe psychology -- or anything else that doesn't smell like IT or technology.
I figure I'll always have the tech experience to fall back on if that market recovers, but in the meantime I'll have earned a degree in something completely different with completely different opportunities.
I've been running Redhat Linux for about 1.5 years. The only time I've had to reboot was when I upgraded from RH 8.0 to RH 9.0. It still only took about a minute (compared to almost 3 minutes on my XP box w/same CPU). I really don't care how long it takes to reboot as long as I don't have to.
Not to stomp all over what you've pointed out but...
Boromir: Starts out on good guy's (white) team. Blatant hints of possible "internal strife" over the ring before they even leave Rivendell (white, hint of grey, but you *know* where this is going). "Why not use it ourselves?" he asks (deliberate "black/grey" injection). A set up. A blatant set up. Then there's the whole scene with Boromir and Frodo where Boromir tries to take the ring in hopes of winning the war against Sauron. But he's still on the "good team" (still white), so Tolkien bails him out in a way that there is no question anymore as to his (Boromir's) true intentions (pure white, as he floats angelically, but dead, down the ol' river). Not even a clever bail out at that.
Bilbo: One of the original "good guys" (white team). First hobbit "owner" of the ring. Gives it up, but with drama-queen-style reservations (Still white, but lets throw in some overly-obvious gray to make things interesting). Reseverations reinforced plot-wise by Gandalf (still white, but now we have super-wizard to police the situation). Frodo letting him see it at Rivendell would be like someone flashing a needle and some smack in the face of a recovering junkie in rehab (how stupid could Frodo be?). What do you (or did Tolkien) expect him to do? Not so clever.
Smaug: Supposedly only interested in collecting wealth (black team). Likes to eat virgins and livestock (very black team). Sounds very Republican (sooooo black). Conveniently has a single weak spot in his armor (that only Bilbo and a bird are privy to) that allows the good archer a clean kill (gotta give the white team "some" advantage).
Elf-on-Elf: Other than sounding like a weird porno, doesn't diverge much from the almost purely black and white of Tolkein's world. Yes, there are white team elves. Yes there are "complicated" elves. But all elves are on the "white" team. No exceptions (it's been a while since I've read the Sim, so I may be in error). Even the so-called "dark" elves are on the white team.
But if you're looking for the truly grey quantity: Gollum! Here you have the only Tolkien character that is absolutely unpredictable. He started out good (or did he?). He murdered his friend for the ring. Then he used the ring for petty purposes, ultimately getting himself kicked out of the house/village. But after Bilbo gets the ring, then Frodo, Gollum doesn't seem so evil (at least for a while). Tolkien throws in mention after mention about Gol's internal struggles, but you're never sure which side will win. If you had mentioned Gollum alone, I might have agreed with you.
This may sound like Tolkien bashing (it is, in way), but I actually *love* what he wrote. I've read and re-read his books so many times it's ridiculous. One of the main reasons I keep picking his books back up is the crystal-clear white/black world he created. Even though he put in some feeble attempts at grayness, every character and every plot "twist" increased the contrast so that there was no question as to white or black. There was never any question as to who was good or bad. I'm not knocking that -- it's the stark contrast of white/black, good/evil, that *makes* his stories so great.
Sci-fi was (and is) a method for exploring the possibilities of existing and theoretical technologies. We are a much more techno-savvy populace now. Even my Grandmother knows what a laser is (it'll fix her eyes).
Society today, however, though tech-savvy, wants -- no, *needs* -- to find some reason or purpose to life other than just "moving forward" (whether toward the stars, the moon, etc.). Whenever society reaches a critical mass of "understanding" of the "known and accepted potentialities" of technology, it reverts to the "spiritual".
This is why the fantasy stories are obliterating sci-fi. People already *know* what will most likely happen tech-wise within their lifetime. What they *don't* know is whether there is a "god", or "gods", or whatever else you can dream up in the "spiritual" realm. IMHO, the fantasy genre is more important to the average reader today than sci-fi because fantasy texts address the questions and concerns that today's readers are really interested in.
Sci-fi is very extro-spective -- focusing on what might happen based on current scientific knowledge and theory. Sci-fi generally ignores or poo-poo's the spiritual/human concerns of us carbon-based entities, instead pushing either techno-utopian agendas, or techno-hell agendas.
Fantasy, on the other hand, is very intro-spective -- focusing on the (usually) historic, spiritual planes of thought and existence. Fantasy doesn't care about the future, as long as it can describe a believable past.
In a nutshell, I think what's happening is that people know enough (and have been let down enough) by technology to not have faith in the hypothetical futures described in sci-fi. Instead, these same people want an altruistic world like Tolkein offers (all is black or white, very little grey) that has the semblance of "history" or "religion", and doesn't require buying in to a specific school of futurism.
Of course, I'm probably full of shit and don't know my own ass from a hole in the ground, but that's what I think about this.
watercooling is more effective than aircooling in many applications (cars, computers etc)
Way off topic here, but I gotta say...
As a proud owner of a 1970 VW Bus (my second), I have to disagree -- a well-designed air-cooled system can be just as effective (if not more so) than a water-cooled one. My Bus is over 30 years old, original motor, and has *never* overheated or had heat-related performance issues. It also starts right up in sub-zero weather and I don't have to worry about the block cracking due to antifreeze failure.
Granted, it's no speed demon, but you gotta love the simplicity of the design.
I had to check this out, being a shade-tree mechanic myself -- thought it would be interesting to see how you could cram a Lincoln radiator into a PC (especially since a Lincoln radiator is larger than your typical PC case).
This is NOT a radiator -- just a heater core. Still kinda cool though.
I would be more than happy to buy a license to run Linux on my webservers and desktops, IF you can provide me with the following:
1. Proof that Linux actually infringes on your intellectual property (at this point, I only have your company's word for it, and frankly that's not worth very much to me)
2. Proof that you will pay (and are paying) the other developers who have contributed code to Linux their fair share of your proceeds from selling Linux licenses. (Otherwise, I would imagine they could level the same charges you're making, but against SCO and anyone who buys a license to use Linux from SCO)
3. Convince me that your sales and support team will provide better service than RedHat.
My checkbook is waiting. It's not a big one, mind you, but IF you can handle my three requests, I would be happy to open it up.
Sincerely,
Sean Fulkerson,
Owner & Lead Developer,
Fulkerson Interactive
I'll be sure to share any response I get from them here...
Has anyone found an article on the SCO debacle where an interviewer has point-blank asked McBride (or whoever) why SCO has been (and continues) to offer their Linux distro with full source under the GPL on their own FTP site?
You know and I know that it's there and available for the downloading, but have any of the "journalists" brought this (and its implications) to SCO's attention in an interview?
They can claim, that they didn't know it was illegal to export the code because the didn't know what was in it.
But shouldn't they know what they're distributing? If I learned anything in my high school civics class, ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. If they're going to hold IBM accountable for possibly including non-GPL'd code in their Linux distros, then SCO better damn well hold themselves to the same standard.
IMHO, SCO is just out on a fishing expedition. They can claim whatever they want, but they willingly and freely distributed their own version of Linux via FTP with no restrictions -- and presumably with the same IP "violations" as IBM, RedHat and others that they've mentioned. If they can't take the time to inspect what's contained in their own distros, where the hell do they get off thinking they can sue or threaten everyone else in the business for the same practice?
What really pisses me off is the fact that they either 1) contributed the code themselves, or 2) knowingly allowed the code to be contributed by a third party (IBM or whoever), and are just now making a stink because their bottom line sucks and they have no future unless they want to actually work at it.
Slashdot Mirror
actually, i think it goes:
"hey boss, we had a problem with linux at our datacenter. but don't worry... the sysadmins at geico uploaded a fix (as did the folks at google and some other companies i can't be bothered to look up to see if they're running linux)"
"to make a long story short, we're still saving money by running linux -- and we're patched now, while our competitors are waiting for microsoft to acknowledge there's even a problem."
Yes, it is, you insensitive clod!
*grin*
Y'know... I wish /. would display the link destination next to links in articles and not just comments -- would save me a lot of time.
ZDNet is most definitely not a news source -- nothing more than a PR organ imho.
Actually, I've done quite a few installs. Mostly AIX, and (cringe) SCO's "Unix"... i do run Fedora on my personal and work desktops, so I guess that makes me a Linux fanatic.
I think you missed my point on the rest. Microsoft has this tendency to not just stick their finger in everyone else's pies, but to try to take the whole thing. The problem is, they haven't finished their OWN pie. If they can't come up with an OS that is stable and secure (and that IS their core business), how can they think they'll be able to do a better job throwing resources at non-core projects? Granted, they do have considerable resources to throw around. But my point is that they should try to do at least ONE thing right before moving on to the next.
This whole attitude of "winner take all" is why people are switching from Microsoft to other technologies. Who wants to be locked into a solution owned by a company with a take-no-prisoners attitude? Like the universe isn't big enough for Microsoft AND Google to co-exist? Ballmer is just full of shit.
And if he'd shut up long enough to listen to his customers and got his army of programmers and developers to focus on their CORE business -- OPERATING SYSTEMS -- maybe they'd have a decent product. But what the hell do I know?
I know that a big part of my job is to CHOOSE platforms for my clients' systems, and guess what? Haven't done a MS install in two years. Not because I'm a Linux fanatic, but because I weigh silly things like uptime, scalability, usability, compatability and a bunch of other "bilities".
If MS wants to go into the search business and has the balls to think they've got what it takes to be the Google-killer, more power to them. Have at it. Just give me a little of what they're smoking in the boardroom.
Except for the date, that is.
i almost choked on my coffee when i first read that headline... a "lightning toilet"?
behold the flush of god!
I, for one, am actually very pleased with its performance. I just opened a 1364 page pdf that's loaded with graphics in about 3 seconds (FC3 on a 2.8GHz P4). The same doc opened in gpdf takes about 20 seconds and is a real bitch to use since you have to manually type in whatever page number you want to read and whenever you click a page in the table of contents, it jumps to the top of the document (wtf is that? a feature?).
Thank you, Adobe.
Yeah... all that personal data, all that business data, basically every bit ever recorded by anyone. I don't care how good their security is or how good their privacy policy is, that much data makes for too sweet a target. Forget the script kids, this is the kind of wet dream the FBI, CIA, NSA pray for -- not to mention every hacking genius from the former Soviet-bloc countries. I like Google and I'm sure they have tighter security than I do, but I'm a small target value-wise and a system like this would make them the biggest bullseye on the planet.
There's potential for mis-use, but talk about an eye-opener. How many average citizens would take the time to request this data from the FEC?
A quick lookup of my street address was extremely insightful. I recognized many of the names from my years in the business community and guess what? Most of the Republican donors are owners and officers of companies who have been laying off workers (and outsourcing their work) with most contributing $2000 checks from every person in their household. The Dems, on the other hand, had more contributors, but they were much smaller contributions ($50 - $500) and mostly from small business owners and average Joe's -- many retirees.
Now I can see for myself why the Bushies have over $100M at their disposal, while Kerry's only at $22M or so. Knowing where the money is coming from helps show where government will be going -- and if Bush wins, it will be going into Big Business's back pocket.
I had to re-read this three times and verify that it was actually a CNN article before I could believe it. Darl has got to be the world's worst liar -- he just keeps making shit up, never backs it up, and then makes up more. And if you don't buy his lies, he sends you a bill for stealing his company's IP.
After reading this, I can just imagine a typical SCO board meeting -- "y'know what Darl? this IP thing had a very tiny shot at success in the beginning, but the pump and dump strategy you proposed isn't working any more. And now you're claiming that we own the IP rights to photosynthesis!? Does that mean we own the patents to digital photography? HP already bought one of our *nix licenses. Do you think they'll be stupid enough to pay us more so they can continue to sell photo printers? If not, maybe we should claim ownership of cell-division --- might be able leverage that against the mobile phone companies."
Now if they only had another partner named Thanyu, they could win their cases by just saying "We're Smart & Biggar, Thanyu, so pay up"
(rimshot)
Sorry... couldn't resist
Very nice lighting effects, but I have to wonder what that would be like in a real home. I step on enough Legos and other painful objects on the way to the bathroom at 3:00am as it is.
I've made the same realization. Good tech jobs requiring what used to be not-so-popular skills and paid 50-60k were everywhere. Now it seems everyone and their dog can write code and the employers know that -- no more 50-60k jobs.
I got the boot from a good job only to find out they hired someone new at half the rate just a couple of weeks later. And now, having been actively looking for work for the past 9 months, I see that the few companies that *are* hiring are paying even less than that.
I'm no longer looking for the good tech jobs anymore. Instead, I've enrolled at the local university to earn a B.A. in English -- or maybe psychology -- or anything else that doesn't smell like IT or technology.
I figure I'll always have the tech experience to fall back on if that market recovers, but in the meantime I'll have earned a degree in something completely different with completely different opportunities.
I've been running Redhat Linux for about 1.5 years. The only time I've had to reboot was when I upgraded from RH 8.0 to RH 9.0. It still only took about a minute (compared to almost 3 minutes on my XP box w/same CPU). I really don't care how long it takes to reboot as long as I don't have to.
By this logic, I guess I'm the equivalent of a good cognac, since I'm 36...
Not to stomp all over what you've pointed out but...
Boromir: Starts out on good guy's (white) team. Blatant hints of possible "internal strife" over the ring before they even leave Rivendell (white, hint of grey, but you *know* where this is going). "Why not use it ourselves?" he asks (deliberate "black/grey" injection). A set up. A blatant set up. Then there's the whole scene with Boromir and Frodo where Boromir tries to take the ring in hopes of winning the war against Sauron. But he's still on the "good team" (still white), so Tolkien bails him out in a way that there is no question anymore as to his (Boromir's) true intentions (pure white, as he floats angelically, but dead, down the ol' river). Not even a clever bail out at that.
Bilbo: One of the original "good guys" (white team). First hobbit "owner" of the ring. Gives it up, but with drama-queen-style reservations (Still white, but lets throw in some overly-obvious gray to make things interesting). Reseverations reinforced plot-wise by Gandalf (still white, but now we have super-wizard to police the situation). Frodo letting him see it at Rivendell would be like someone flashing a needle and some smack in the face of a recovering junkie in rehab (how stupid could Frodo be?). What do you (or did Tolkien) expect him to do? Not so clever.
Smaug: Supposedly only interested in collecting wealth (black team). Likes to eat virgins and livestock (very black team). Sounds very Republican (sooooo black). Conveniently has a single weak spot in his armor (that only Bilbo and a bird are privy to) that allows the good archer a clean kill (gotta give the white team "some" advantage).
Elf-on-Elf: Other than sounding like a weird porno, doesn't diverge much from the almost purely black and white of Tolkein's world. Yes, there are white team elves. Yes there are "complicated" elves. But all elves are on the "white" team. No exceptions (it's been a while since I've read the Sim, so I may be in error). Even the so-called "dark" elves are on the white team.
But if you're looking for the truly grey quantity: Gollum! Here you have the only Tolkien character that is absolutely unpredictable. He started out good (or did he?). He murdered his friend for the ring. Then he used the ring for petty purposes, ultimately getting himself kicked out of the house/village. But after Bilbo gets the ring, then Frodo, Gollum doesn't seem so evil (at least for a while). Tolkien throws in mention after mention about Gol's internal struggles, but you're never sure which side will win. If you had mentioned Gollum alone, I might have agreed with you.
This may sound like Tolkien bashing (it is, in way), but I actually *love* what he wrote. I've read and re-read his books so many times it's ridiculous. One of the main reasons I keep picking his books back up is the crystal-clear white/black world he created. Even though he put in some feeble attempts at grayness, every character and every plot "twist" increased the contrast so that there was no question as to white or black. There was never any question as to who was good or bad. I'm not knocking that -- it's the stark contrast of white/black, good/evil, that *makes* his stories so great.
Sci-fi was (and is) a method for exploring the possibilities of existing and theoretical technologies. We are a much more techno-savvy populace now. Even my Grandmother knows what a laser is (it'll fix her eyes).
/.'ers
Society today, however, though tech-savvy, wants -- no, *needs* -- to find some reason or purpose to life other than just "moving forward" (whether toward the stars, the moon, etc.). Whenever society reaches a critical mass of "understanding" of the "known and accepted potentialities" of technology, it reverts to the "spiritual".
This is why the fantasy stories are obliterating sci-fi. People already *know* what will most likely happen tech-wise within their lifetime. What they *don't* know is whether there is a "god", or "gods", or whatever else you can dream up in the "spiritual" realm. IMHO, the fantasy genre is more important to the average reader today than sci-fi because fantasy texts address the questions and concerns that today's readers are really interested in.
Sci-fi is very extro-spective -- focusing on what might happen based on current scientific knowledge and theory. Sci-fi generally ignores or poo-poo's the spiritual/human concerns of us carbon-based entities, instead pushing either techno-utopian agendas, or techno-hell agendas.
Fantasy, on the other hand, is very intro-spective -- focusing on the (usually) historic, spiritual planes of thought and existence. Fantasy doesn't care about the future, as long as it can describe a believable past.
In a nutshell, I think what's happening is that people know enough (and have been let down enough) by technology to not have faith in the hypothetical futures described in sci-fi. Instead, these same people want an altruistic world like Tolkein offers (all is black or white, very little grey) that has the semblance of "history" or "religion", and doesn't require buying in to a specific school of futurism.
Of course, I'm probably full of shit and don't know my own ass from a hole in the ground, but that's what I think about this.
Peace, my fellow
watercooling is more effective than aircooling in many applications (cars, computers etc)
Way off topic here, but I gotta say...
As a proud owner of a 1970 VW Bus (my second), I have to disagree -- a well-designed air-cooled system can be just as effective (if not more so) than a water-cooled one. My Bus is over 30 years old, original motor, and has *never* overheated or had heat-related performance issues. It also starts right up in sub-zero weather and I don't have to worry about the block cracking due to antifreeze failure.
Granted, it's no speed demon, but you gotta love the simplicity of the design.
I had to check this out, being a shade-tree mechanic myself -- thought it would be interesting to see how you could cram a Lincoln radiator into a PC (especially since a Lincoln radiator is larger than your typical PC case).
This is NOT a radiator -- just a heater core. Still kinda cool though.
If you read the article to its end and clicked the right-arrow at the bottom you get this article:
SCO not exactly the lovable little guy
I think it's pretty hilarious that SCO can't even get their local press to show them in a good light.
This is what I just sent SCO (FOR REAL)...
Subject: Would like to buy a Linux license...
Sirs,
I would be more than happy to buy a license to run Linux on my webservers and desktops, IF you can provide me with the following:
1. Proof that Linux actually infringes on your intellectual property (at this point, I only have your company's word for it, and frankly that's not worth very much to me)
2. Proof that you will pay (and are paying) the other developers who have contributed code to Linux their fair share of your proceeds from selling Linux licenses. (Otherwise, I would imagine they could level the same charges you're making, but against SCO and anyone who buys a license to use Linux from SCO)
3. Convince me that your sales and support team will provide better service than RedHat.
My checkbook is waiting. It's not a big one, mind you, but IF you can handle my three requests, I would be happy to open it up.
Sincerely,
Sean Fulkerson,
Owner & Lead Developer,
Fulkerson Interactive
I'll be sure to share any response I get from them here...
Has anyone found an article on the SCO debacle where an interviewer has point-blank asked McBride (or whoever) why SCO has been (and continues) to offer their Linux distro with full source under the GPL on their own FTP site?
You know and I know that it's there and available for the downloading, but have any of the "journalists" brought this (and its implications) to SCO's attention in an interview?
I'd *love* to hear SCO's answer to that one!
Isn't that the gym teacher from Porky's?
They can claim, that they didn't know it was illegal to export the code because the didn't know what was in it.
But shouldn't they know what they're distributing? If I learned anything in my high school civics class, ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. If they're going to hold IBM accountable for possibly including non-GPL'd code in their Linux distros, then SCO better damn well hold themselves to the same standard.
IMHO, SCO is just out on a fishing expedition. They can claim whatever they want, but they willingly and freely distributed their own version of Linux via FTP with no restrictions -- and presumably with the same IP "violations" as IBM, RedHat and others that they've mentioned. If they can't take the time to inspect what's contained in their own distros, where the hell do they get off thinking they can sue or threaten everyone else in the business for the same practice?
What really pisses me off is the fact that they either 1) contributed the code themselves, or 2) knowingly allowed the code to be contributed by a third party (IBM or whoever), and are just now making a stink because their bottom line sucks and they have no future unless they want to actually work at it.