I have a Toyota Camry. Normal sedan, right? I have 2 kids. Who have friends that want to go places with them. And we sometimes take Grandma places like to dinner and games and whatnot. Other times, I want to take my dog to the Vet for a checkup, with my kids. So, my 4 squeeze in 5 passenger car doesn't exactly meet the needs of my pretty small family.
Do I need a freaking Expedition? No. Do I need my pretty reasonable Acura MDX that seats 7 and has room for groceries when all the seats are up? You bet your ass. Get out of the basement and live a real life, where not everyone can take their moped to the 7-11 for a big gulp.
On a side note, it's not like I expect gas for the thing to be free. I bought it, it's paid for, I'll pay the gas and the insurance. And I'll take my motorcycle when it's just me, but for what it's worth, it's nice to have a car everyone can fit in to go places.
Why does my company have a list of passwords again? We need to get out of the thought that each individual device needs a password, and get to the point where passwords are part of an account a user has. Then we don't need to keep a list, we just need to enforce security on the directory storing passwords.
ESX has a Red Hat console on it, but it's proprietary hpervisor. If there really was Linux in there, I'm sure the GPL crowd would have jumped all over them.
That will teach you to run Microsoft's 5 year old technology in a production environment. Use VMware ESX or XEN. Either one will give you the results you need.
Huh? Are you sharing what you're smoking? The whole point of ESX is that it allows multiple physical boxes to share the same chunk of storage simultaneously. It's kind of required.
You do know that that's not profit margin, or even profit. That's just gross sales. I'm betting they get maybe 10 / title after royalties, distribution, retail, licensing all take their cut.
They do, but it's a purposeful feature, not a security risk.
Also, this discussion deals around virtualization interacting with the host OS, not dealing with virtualization's ability to interact between guests. VMware's ability to isolate guests from each other is fabulous. When you talk about VMware, you have to separate the features of their Workstation product (designed to make life easier) from the security of their ESX product (designed to be enterprise class virtualization).
What they should be looking at is VMware's ACE product. Built in encryption, security policies, and the ability to expire a VM after a certain amount of time. Add to that the ability to lock out USB devices and un trusted networks, and you have a pretty cool product.
I'm not as concerned about the laptops being lost as I am about contractors keeping the data on their laptops as long as they like.
First things first, I'm a Novell employee... but let's ignore that now.
How do you all not realize that this may not have anything to do with Linux. Novell owns a ton of other proprietary software products. NetWare, GroupWise, ZENWorks, etc. Maybe some of those previous patent violations exist in those products, and this has nothing to do with Linux. Let Stevie B say what he wants, but realize that Novell and MSFT go way back before the relatively recent acquisition of SUSE by Novell.
You havent seen the latest bundle. It's called the Open Workgroup Suite, and it includes SLES, Open Enterprise Server (Linux version, but there is also pricing for the NetWare version), GroupWise, ZEN Suite (manage Windoze and Linux workstations and servers), SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop, and support for OpenOffice.org on Windows (so you can have a mixed deployment). The pricing on it hasn't been announced, but it's in the $100 - $150 / user ballpark.
All I can say is, you've apparently never used one. I've had two generations of the BB... an older, Black one with a full keyboard, and I currently have a fancy new silver one with a call and hangup button, and a full keyboard. It's literally given me back two hours a day. I travel a lot, and often drive for day trips to meet with customers. When I'm stopped for lunch, or waiting to go into a meeting, I can catch up on email, surf the web, IM with co-workers. I'm more productive, and I get more done. The device is built from the ground up to support those tasks. The OS is rock solid, it's fast, easy to use, without a damn stupid touch screen.
The best part is when I get home. I check the BB one last time for urgent email, then I turn the thing off. But, because I know I'm caught up for the day, I don't have to crawl into my office, sync email, check my calendar, etc. I can instead go play with my daughters, relax with my wife, eat dinner, hang out. No pressure, since I know that I got what I needed to done for the day. Then, when everyone is down for the night, I can turn it back on and confirm my schedule for tomorrow. No fuss, no laptop, no wifi, no nothing. Just get what I need to get done and go to bed.
It's the ultimate productivity booster for me. I can see people being frustrated if they go off in meetings. As far as I'm concerned, it's no more or less rude than taking a cell phone call during a meeting. I always turn mine on silent before I go in, and would never dare to answer it if I forgot to do so and received an email or call.
Just my $.02. My wife loves it, because it keeps me from working at night, and it keeps me on time for my important meetings.
yeah, but doesn't Xpress require Lotus Notes or Outlook and Windows? Not much of a cross platform solution. Not to mention, if I need to keep my laptop on for this stuff to sync, it can't exactly be in my briefcase with me on the way to a meeting.
OK... I'll take the hit. I didn't spell the name right. And, I haven't done much digging into Ubuntu or Canonical.
Those two things only slightly change my argument. The general premise is still right.
Canonical is a company, but it's privately held, and has employees in "Europe, North America, South America, and Australia". No mention of how many employees, or what they do. Their web site doesn't have a phone number, local addresses, information on technical support for Ubuntu, patches, updates, or pretty much anything but press releases. If you go to the Ubuntu web site, you can find some Security Notices and information on how much it'd cost to get "standard business hours" support from Canonical, but that's about it. No Oracle, IBM, HP, Intel, BEA, etc... application icons to let me know that those apps are certified for any Ubuntu release, no information on what to do if my server crashes at 3am local time, or for that matter, no information on what time zone Canonical thinks it's business hours are in. No phone numbers, no product features / roadmap. Not much of anything. I know it's a newer company... but if that's the state things are in, then you probably shouldn't be pushing it into the enterprise.
So, some of my facts were wrong, but my premise remains the same. If a business in any country, on any continent, wants Linux, they need a company that has strong industry partnerships with Hardware and Software companies, 24X7 365days a year support, and a name that helps customers feel like the product offering won't disappear tomorrow. Right now, that means Red Hat or SUSE.
This post isn't meant to bag on Ubuntu. I hope the company grows, increases its market share globally, starts to get some third party partnerships, all that kind of stuff. I think there is plenty of room in the Linux marketplace for a third enterprise class partner. But right now, I don't think I'd bet my enterprise desktop or datacenter rollout of Linux on them. Heck, even Mandriva has more detail on enterprise support offerings, phone numbers for all their local offerings, and a sales phone number that you can call and ask about their offerings. I don't hear any of you guys pushing them into the enterprise.
OK... in the interest of full disclosure, I am a Novell employee. That comment above about Novell Linux Desktop 9 in Indiana, the guy doing all the technical work on that implementation is on my team.
Dell might be saying that they want only one "major" distribution is horse hockey. In many, many conversations with IBM and HP, both those vendors want the opposite. They want two major distributions that have full enterprise support. Novell/SUSE as one (see IBM investment in Novell) and Red Hat as the other. Why do they want this? Because they don't want another Microsoft. They want to encourage standards, competition, and hardware upgrades. They can't do this if everyone runs the OS of the year from Microsoft. They can do this if everyone runs either SUSE Linux, Red Hat Linux, or Microsoft. Doing that creates lots of churn for them to take advantage of when trying to sell boxes equipped with the latest bells and whistles.
As far as Umbuntu... I don't know what to tell you. Most of my customers (anywhere from 100 users in a local township to 30,000 users at a Fortune 100 company) won't install software X on OS Y on hardware Z unless it's 100% supported and certified by both vendors. Problem with Umbuntu is, as far as I know, no major software or hardware companies are doing that. That alone will put the screws to Umbuntu. At Novell/SUSE, our biggest challenge (and our biggest success) has been getting third party companies like Intel, Dell, HP, IBM, Oracle, PeopleSoft, BEA, etc. to certify our OS as a platform that they will support. Check to see if the app you want is supported here http://developer.novell.com/yessearch/Search.jsp. Without a company behind Umbuntu, getting that kind of support is going to be impossible. And, as we all know, without supported software, no one will use your distro.
That's just my opinion... I certainly could be wrong.
You need it for one reason... logging at the firewall. Any company (especially those in the financial or healthcare industries) that lets its employees chat with IM to any public IM service and doesn't log it is crazy. With a gateway, I'm sure that Lotus will give you the ability to log this at the firewall and make sure Mary from the admin department isn't sending out credit card numbers because her boss didn't give her the $.10 (US) raise that she asked for.
Right now, there aren't any large companies that provide logging / archiving at the firewall. If IBM does it, it'll be pretty impressive.
What I can't figure is how the licensing is going to work. AOL, Yahoo, they make money from sending annoying ad's to your IM client. With Gaim / Trillian, you don't get these ads. How are these companies going to make their money if IBM owns the client? I'm sure that if I deploy IBM's solution, I don't want my users getting ads about the next new summer blockbuster.
Interesting. I have a Blackberry 7290 (traditional form factor, full keyboard) that I just switched to from a Treo 650. Prior to that I had a Treo 600. Both of my Treo's worked ok, but there were nagging issues. Battery life was painful. Address book sync over the air to my email system (I have Novell GroupWise at the office) was very, very spotty. Same with email and calendar sync. My Treo's would reboot about every couple of days, for no good reason. Yeah, the web browsing was better on the Treo. I had plenty of add on software on it, but at it's heart, the Treo felt like a Palm that had a phone taped to the back of it. You couldn't even dial conference calls out of the calendar. It was kludgey.
On the other hand you have my Blackberry. Smaller, darker screen. No auto backlight, but most of the time I don't need it. Battery life on the Blackberry makes a Nokia look like child's play. It'll go for hours on conference calls without breaking a sweat. The applications are integrated, and they remember where you were in them when you leave and come back. So, if I dial a call out of my address book and flip to my calendar, it's on the same day that I had it on previously.
Are there drawbacks? Sure. I miss my games. I wish it had a better screen. But it's fast, stable, reliable, and built for what I need it for. I will go days without checking my email on my computer, because I trust the integration on my Blackberry.
If you need something as a toy to impress others on a plane, get a Treo. If you need a business tool to keep you in touch with your address book and calendar and email, get a Blackberry.
That's the real question. Will it use Industry Standard Hardware, or will I have to purchase a "Macintosh Intel Workstation" to get my OSX on a P-whatever? Has anyone got an idea?
No windoze version. Novell and Nat (check out his blog at http://www.nat.org/ have rumored that a port was in the works. Problem is that Evolution is based on native linux libraries. You can't really do a port, you just gotta start all over.
If you're going to do that, you might as well just go web based. I know there are some limitations, but it's still easier than building a new client.
Slashdot Mirror
Allright... I'll bite at the flame bait.
I have a Toyota Camry. Normal sedan, right? I have 2 kids. Who have friends that want to go places with them. And we sometimes take Grandma places like to dinner and games and whatnot. Other times, I want to take my dog to the Vet for a checkup, with my kids. So, my 4 squeeze in 5 passenger car doesn't exactly meet the needs of my pretty small family.
Do I need a freaking Expedition? No. Do I need my pretty reasonable Acura MDX that seats 7 and has room for groceries when all the seats are up? You bet your ass. Get out of the basement and live a real life, where not everyone can take their moped to the 7-11 for a big gulp.
On a side note, it's not like I expect gas for the thing to be free. I bought it, it's paid for, I'll pay the gas and the insurance. And I'll take my motorcycle when it's just me, but for what it's worth, it's nice to have a car everyone can fit in to go places.
Tim
Why does my company have a list of passwords again? We need to get out of the thought that each individual device needs a password, and get to the point where passwords are part of an account a user has. Then we don't need to keep a list, we just need to enforce security on the directory storing passwords.
Tim
Heck... these days GM and Ford won't bother to copy it. They'll just license it from Toyota and stick their brand on it.
Tim
ESX has a Red Hat console on it, but it's proprietary hpervisor. If there really was Linux in there, I'm sure the GPL crowd would have jumped all over them.
Tim
That will teach you to run Microsoft's 5 year old technology in a production environment. Use VMware ESX or XEN. Either one will give you the results you need.
Tim
Yeah... which is why you run it under VMware 3i. No "Native" OS to worry about, just pure hypervisor goodness.
http://www.vmware.com/products/vi/esx/esx3i.html
Have a great day!
Tim
Funny, here in Chicago they do the opposite. Use cement to patch a hole in an asphalt road.
Tim
Huh? Are you sharing what you're smoking? The whole point of ESX is that it allows multiple physical boxes to share the same chunk of storage simultaneously. It's kind of required.
Tim
You do know that that's not profit margin, or even profit. That's just gross sales. I'm betting they get maybe 10 / title after royalties, distribution, retail, licensing all take their cut.
Tim
They do, but it's a purposeful feature, not a security risk.
Also, this discussion deals around virtualization interacting with the host OS, not dealing with virtualization's ability to interact between guests. VMware's ability to isolate guests from each other is fabulous. When you talk about VMware, you have to separate the features of their Workstation product (designed to make life easier) from the security of their ESX product (designed to be enterprise class virtualization).
Thanks!
Tim
What they should be looking at is VMware's ACE product. Built in encryption, security policies, and the ability to expire a VM after a certain amount of time. Add to that the ability to lock out USB devices and un trusted networks, and you have a pretty cool product.
I'm not as concerned about the laptops being lost as I am about contractors keeping the data on their laptops as long as they like.
Tim
Not really worth commenting on, but that is freaking awesome. You get credit from me for the site of the day!
Tim
First things first, I'm a Novell employee... but let's ignore that now.
How do you all not realize that this may not have anything to do with Linux. Novell owns a ton of other proprietary software products. NetWare, GroupWise, ZENWorks, etc. Maybe some of those previous patent violations exist in those products, and this has nothing to do with Linux. Let Stevie B say what he wants, but realize that Novell and MSFT go way back before the relatively recent acquisition of SUSE by Novell.
Thanks for listening.
Tim
You havent seen the latest bundle. It's called the Open Workgroup Suite, and it includes SLES, Open Enterprise Server (Linux version, but there is also pricing for the NetWare version), GroupWise, ZEN Suite (manage Windoze and Linux workstations and servers), SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop, and support for OpenOffice.org on Windows (so you can have a mixed deployment). The pricing on it hasn't been announced, but it's in the $100 - $150 / user ballpark.
/
Check it out here http://www.novell.com/products/openworkgroupsuite
For my money, that's way cheaper than a MSFT solution, plus it's got a ton of open components in there.
TT
All I can say is, you've apparently never used one. I've had two generations of the BB... an older, Black one with a full keyboard, and I currently have a fancy new silver one with a call and hangup button, and a full keyboard. It's literally given me back two hours a day. I travel a lot, and often drive for day trips to meet with customers. When I'm stopped for lunch, or waiting to go into a meeting, I can catch up on email, surf the web, IM with co-workers. I'm more productive, and I get more done. The device is built from the ground up to support those tasks. The OS is rock solid, it's fast, easy to use, without a damn stupid touch screen.
The best part is when I get home. I check the BB one last time for urgent email, then I turn the thing off. But, because I know I'm caught up for the day, I don't have to crawl into my office, sync email, check my calendar, etc. I can instead go play with my daughters, relax with my wife, eat dinner, hang out. No pressure, since I know that I got what I needed to done for the day. Then, when everyone is down for the night, I can turn it back on and confirm my schedule for tomorrow. No fuss, no laptop, no wifi, no nothing. Just get what I need to get done and go to bed.
It's the ultimate productivity booster for me. I can see people being frustrated if they go off in meetings. As far as I'm concerned, it's no more or less rude than taking a cell phone call during a meeting. I always turn mine on silent before I go in, and would never dare to answer it if I forgot to do so and received an email or call.
Just my $.02. My wife loves it, because it keeps me from working at night, and it keeps me on time for my important meetings.
Tim
yeah, but doesn't Xpress require Lotus Notes or Outlook and Windows? Not much of a cross platform solution. Not to mention, if I need to keep my laptop on for this stuff to sync, it can't exactly be in my briefcase with me on the way to a meeting.
r sonal#
Check it out here http://www.cingular.com/midtolarge/xpress_mail_pe
Tim
OK... I'll take the hit. I didn't spell the name right. And, I haven't done much digging into Ubuntu or Canonical.
Those two things only slightly change my argument. The general premise is still right.
Canonical is a company, but it's privately held, and has employees in "Europe, North America, South America, and Australia". No mention of how many employees, or what they do. Their web site doesn't have a phone number, local addresses, information on technical support for Ubuntu, patches, updates, or pretty much anything but press releases. If you go to the Ubuntu web site, you can find some Security Notices and information on how much it'd cost to get "standard business hours" support from Canonical, but that's about it. No Oracle, IBM, HP, Intel, BEA, etc... application icons to let me know that those apps are certified for any Ubuntu release, no information on what to do if my server crashes at 3am local time, or for that matter, no information on what time zone Canonical thinks it's business hours are in. No phone numbers, no product features / roadmap. Not much of anything. I know it's a newer company... but if that's the state things are in, then you probably shouldn't be pushing it into the enterprise.
So, some of my facts were wrong, but my premise remains the same. If a business in any country, on any continent, wants Linux, they need a company that has strong industry partnerships with Hardware and Software companies, 24X7 365days a year support, and a name that helps customers feel like the product offering won't disappear tomorrow. Right now, that means Red Hat or SUSE.
This post isn't meant to bag on Ubuntu. I hope the company grows, increases its market share globally, starts to get some third party partnerships, all that kind of stuff. I think there is plenty of room in the Linux marketplace for a third enterprise class partner. But right now, I don't think I'd bet my enterprise desktop or datacenter rollout of Linux on them. Heck, even Mandriva has more detail on enterprise support offerings, phone numbers for all their local offerings, and a sales phone number that you can call and ask about their offerings. I don't hear any of you guys pushing them into the enterprise.
Umm... read the article. Novell announced the product, and also announced that the product would ship in September.
Dell might be saying that they want only one "major" distribution is horse hockey. In many, many conversations with IBM and HP, both those vendors want the opposite. They want two major distributions that have full enterprise support. Novell/SUSE as one (see IBM investment in Novell) and Red Hat as the other. Why do they want this? Because they don't want another Microsoft. They want to encourage standards, competition, and hardware upgrades. They can't do this if everyone runs the OS of the year from Microsoft. They can do this if everyone runs either SUSE Linux, Red Hat Linux, or Microsoft. Doing that creates lots of churn for them to take advantage of when trying to sell boxes equipped with the latest bells and whistles.
As far as Umbuntu... I don't know what to tell you. Most of my customers (anywhere from 100 users in a local township to 30,000 users at a Fortune 100 company) won't install software X on OS Y on hardware Z unless it's 100% supported and certified by both vendors. Problem with Umbuntu is, as far as I know, no major software or hardware companies are doing that. That alone will put the screws to Umbuntu. At Novell/SUSE, our biggest challenge (and our biggest success) has been getting third party companies like Intel, Dell, HP, IBM, Oracle, PeopleSoft, BEA, etc. to certify our OS as a platform that they will support. Check to see if the app you want is supported here http://developer.novell.com/yessearch/Search.jsp. Without a company behind Umbuntu, getting that kind of support is going to be impossible. And, as we all know, without supported software, no one will use your distro.
That's just my opinion... I certainly could be wrong.
You need it for one reason... logging at the firewall. Any company (especially those in the financial or healthcare industries) that lets its employees chat with IM to any public IM service and doesn't log it is crazy. With a gateway, I'm sure that Lotus will give you the ability to log this at the firewall and make sure Mary from the admin department isn't sending out credit card numbers because her boss didn't give her the $.10 (US) raise that she asked for.
Right now, there aren't any large companies that provide logging / archiving at the firewall. If IBM does it, it'll be pretty impressive.
What I can't figure is how the licensing is going to work. AOL, Yahoo, they make money from sending annoying ad's to your IM client. With Gaim / Trillian, you don't get these ads. How are these companies going to make their money if IBM owns the client? I'm sure that if I deploy IBM's solution, I don't want my users getting ads about the next new summer blockbuster.
Just a few thoughts!
Tim
Interesting. I have a Blackberry 7290 (traditional form factor, full keyboard) that I just switched to from a Treo 650. Prior to that I had a Treo 600. Both of my Treo's worked ok, but there were nagging issues. Battery life was painful. Address book sync over the air to my email system (I have Novell GroupWise at the office) was very, very spotty. Same with email and calendar sync. My Treo's would reboot about every couple of days, for no good reason. Yeah, the web browsing was better on the Treo. I had plenty of add on software on it, but at it's heart, the Treo felt like a Palm that had a phone taped to the back of it. You couldn't even dial conference calls out of the calendar. It was kludgey.
On the other hand you have my Blackberry. Smaller, darker screen. No auto backlight, but most of the time I don't need it. Battery life on the Blackberry makes a Nokia look like child's play. It'll go for hours on conference calls without breaking a sweat. The applications are integrated, and they remember where you were in them when you leave and come back. So, if I dial a call out of my address book and flip to my calendar, it's on the same day that I had it on previously.
Are there drawbacks? Sure. I miss my games. I wish it had a better screen. But it's fast, stable, reliable, and built for what I need it for. I will go days without checking my email on my computer, because I trust the integration on my Blackberry.
If you need something as a toy to impress others on a plane, get a Treo. If you need a business tool to keep you in touch with your address book and calendar and email, get a Blackberry.
Tim
Short between the keyboard and the floor...
ID10T error
TT
Yeah... I still work for Novell. Unless... wait. Damn it, did Google buy us too?
TT
That's the real question. Will it use Industry Standard Hardware, or will I have to purchase a "Macintosh Intel Workstation" to get my OSX on a P-whatever? Has anyone got an idea?
TT
No windoze version. Novell and Nat (check out his blog at http://www.nat.org/ have rumored that a port was in the works. Problem is that Evolution is based on native linux libraries. You can't really do a port, you just gotta start all over.
If you're going to do that, you might as well just go web based. I know there are some limitations, but it's still easier than building a new client.
Tim