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Google Hires Gaim's Main Developer
astrab writes "According to Dirson's blog, Google's just hired Sean Egan (the main developer of Gaim open IM client), just the same day Yahoo! and Microsoft plan to link their respective proprietary IM networks." From the post: "While Yahoo! and Microsoft link their proprietary networks for Instant Messaging, Google bets on Open Protocols to make information universally accessible ... Currently, Google uses XMPP/Jabber specs, but they claim to be supporting open server-to-server federation, and work "to hear from other people in the communications industry about how best to build a federation model that is open, scalable". In fact, there are this month several tests with firms like EarthLink, Sipphone or PeopleCall. "
Gaim is odd. Sometimes I just don't get it. But I like the fact its free and its pretty much all I use on Linux
Very neat, glad to see google is committed to cross-platform support.
I will be happy when gtalk works with my jabber account in iChat.
they've GAIMed another employee!
Just another example of where an OSS junkie finds gainful employment in the dot-com industry.
This would be great if it somehow sped up development of webcam support in Gaim in Linux. Or even webcam support in some new Goolge IM client for Linux. Asking people to use netmeeting is sortof a pain especially if they are behind firewalls.
It's interesting that MSN and Yahoo IM clients are working together to get in on the pie that AOL currently has half of through text chat. Meanwhile, it looks like Google wants to make sure everyone can talk to everyone in hopes that this will attract more people than regular IM, methinks. Afterall, why bother with IM, when Google will have a veritable VoIP service for free ( I know it's not the same, but it could be quite similar ) that plays with others? The only pitfall to this tactic is that you can IM someone a dirty little sercret at work, but VoIP'ing it can get you into serious trouble ^_^
Perfecting Discordia
www.stevenvansickle.com
TFA says, "Sean is the main developer of Gaim, the most popular IM client." I somehow doubt that. MSN Messenger is preinstalled on just about every news Windows box. Plus, the standard AIM client has been around for a very long time.
I think he was like, the last person who didn't work for Google. I'm pretty sure I work for Google now too. Anybody here not work for Google?
My guess is that they want support for AIM, MSN, Yahoo, etc. on multiple platforms with minimal effort, which is libgaim. That would mean that they'd have to rewrite Google Talk on top of libgaim, for which Sean is a good choice.
Shouldn't this be titled "Google Got GAIM?" I'm all for the GAIM marriage thing--it will only help Google Kopete against Microsoft-- but the next thing you know, Google will be saying "Send in the GIMP." What kind of Subversion of moral authority would that be?
Google need to play the good guys, and open up their Talk servers so that other Jabber servers can connect with them. Until they do this, I'm going to be a little suspicious of them. (I do use my Google Jabber account, but I still keep my other ones too, as I'm not sure of their motives.) Still, good on Google for using an open protocol - I've been trying to explain to people why Jabber is good ("imagine if there were only 4-5 email servers in the world, and you could only email users of your email server") for a long time - and it's been a thankless task.
Get your own free personal location tracker
...Google aims to maim AIM as it gains GAIM's main brain?
Google isn't intending to be the only one supported on *nix, but rather the other ones may not be playing for that market. Google should be praised for attempting to keep that gap filled.
Google works for you.
But I must admin, Google Hires rootbeer has a certain ring to it.
Meh.
Is this the same as allowing us to add other jabber users on other servers to our friends list and allowing us to talk to them? I tried this the first day or two and it wasn't working. Did they recently open this up?
- Kevin
The less confident you are, the more serious you have to act.
Microsoft is in talks to combine with AOL. Similarly, Google is in talks with AOL, possibly to buy some kind of stake in AOL just to keep Microsoft from getting it. Nothing is yet finalized. Microsoft may combine with AOL, but it's not certain yet. Microsoft IM has combined with Yahoo Messenger; maybe that's what you're thinking of.
Just because Google has bought the main Gaim developer does not mean work on Gaim will terminate. For one thing, there is no reason why the Gaim developer cannot continue work on Gaim while working for Google. Since Google has shown willingness to some degree to finance open source projects, it is quite likely this is exactly what they want him to do. Most likely what we will see is that Gaim will have support for GTalk added to it. For another thing, Gaim is open source, so even if the main developer quit all work on Gaim, Gaim will continue to be available and continue to proceed in development.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
another loss to the open source community, this gaim developer now will be too busy in meetings, 20% free time and other google things. the gaim developement will stall.
So basically we're going back to the days of IRC, albeit in a different front-end format.
It does sound good, in some ways, but I worry about rogue servers and rogue clients. IM has been virtually free of direct spam attacks (I have only received one in my entire life), and I fear that without having some corporation's control in their propietary medium, we'll see more spam and less usefulness.
Look what happened with the "open standard" of Usenet. It is SO informative and so readily useful, isn't it? I'm not a fan of most Yahoo Groups but the ones I read are generally spam free (moderators) instead of being spam magnets.
Yes, there is a place for open source, but I don't think this is it. I'm willing to hear reasons why Google's desire to have a open server-to-server federation will be good for a product that already offers me everything I need (at the moment). What new features are going to replace the current text-to-text feature that is probably used by 100% of IM's users. Is VoIP really an extension to IM or is it a different product? Aren't there enough programmers added on features to the propietary AIM program that is doesn't seem to warrant the need for a more open standard? Does the propietary standard offer manufacturers more reason to police their networks of abusers, and is it wrong for these companies to assume to make a profit in order to pay for the massive infrastructure needed to provide IM services?
I do understand the need to open the standard for client-server interaction. More clients means more features, more stability, and more control over your applications on your computer. It also means more clients for lesser-used operating systems, better integration into non-PC stations (media centers, phones, etc), and possibly more people using the IM system.
If you RTFA, they want Sean to improove Gaim, not Google Talk.
Mind Booster Noori
You don't have to have a chat client that supports the various protocols. As long as the Jabber server does, it's fine. The jabber server admin just installs the AIM/Yahoo!/whatever transports and every user with any jabber client can communicate with people on those networks. So taking away a developer doesn't really cause any problem. Plus, the guy has to make a living. Why shouldn't he get a job as reward for all the hard work that benefitted us with a great client and benefitted himself with a great job offer? Isn't that what every OSS person dreams of? (Well, at least aside from the dream that somehow our OSS work itself will make us rich).
And what do you mean "google wants to make sure their chat is the only one supported on *nix"? Google doesn't own Jabber. Sure, they're going to have a talented guy with a track history working on their version of a Jabber client, but so what? GAIM isn't the only client out there that works on something other than windows. There's Fire, Adium (my favorite), tkabber, gabber, psi and countless others. And who says he won't continue working on GAIM too? Or that he won't hand it off to someone else to maintain?
And all the merger does is make it easier for the community. Now we only have to reverse-engineer one protocol (instead of two) to work with twice as many users.
Before everyone assumes everything with Gaim will be instantly different, remember that a couple Firefox developers got hired by Google, and nothing much changed with that project. I mean, Microsoft hired the founder of Gentoo, and look how much has changed there (practically nil).
In short, if anything this is good because ensures that Gaim will not die. Google hired a dev, they didn't somehow buy the whole project.
Everyone's first thought is probably that this will be great for Gaim. But how much time will Sean have for Gaim if he's working on Google Talk? It's more likely that Google is interested in him because of libgaim, which runs on Windows and supports all the major protocols. Between AIM, MSN and Yahoo on Windows, that's a huge majority of the market. I doubt Gaim on Linux is why they want Sean.
Google Hires GAIN's Main Developer
argumentum ad fallacium: Fallacy of defining a fallacy which allows one to dismiss the argument in question.
Or more likely, we keep reverse-engineering both protocols, but there's not as much of a rush to get a fix out when one of them introduces new "security features" into the protocol, since we have a backup route for getting to users of that system.
I've been using xdb_sql to log user registrations and roster changes and whatnot to PostgreSQL; notes on that are here.
The more Jabber developers and users the better... it'll just keep getting faster and more stable!
The Army reading list
Also Gaim has something like 25 developers... so taking one wont kill the project at all.
... who from the gain developer community will throw a chair and scream that they'll kill google?
I hear Google is hiring.
Anyone got some innovative web apps to develop?
Contact information:
http://www.google.com/intl/en/jobs/index.html
Google Benefits
We have never forgotten since our start-up days that great things happen more frequently within the right culture and environment. So we offer Googlers a generous host of benefits as part of our efforts to keep Google a motivating, healthy, and productive place.
Among the various benefits many Googlers enjoy:
* Health care for you and your family, plus on-site physician and dental care at our headquarters in Mountain View, California
* Vacation days and holidays, and flexible work hours
* Maternity and parental leave, plus new moms and dads are able to expense up to $500 for take-out meals during the first four weeks that they are home with their new baby
* Employee referral bonus program
* Employee assistance services for personal issues, childcare referrals, answers to financial and legal questions
* Learning opportunities and tuition reimbursement
* Adoption assistance
* Google Child Care Center, just five minutes from Google headquarters in Mountain View
* Back-up child care helps California parents when their regularly scheduled child care falls through
* Free shuttle service to several San Francisco, East Bay, and South Bay locations
* Fuel Efficiency Vehicle Incentive Program
* Employee discounts
* Onsite dry cleaning, plus a coin-free laundry room in the Mountain View office
Look for us to continue exploring novel ideas in benefits, compensation, and culture. Our goal is to build a company characterized not only by success and innovation, but also by the highest levels of integrity and fairness in our dealings with one another.
Why can't all companies be like Google??? The world would be a better place.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Perhaps they should tell him that:
Working at Google
I (Sean) have been hired by Google, moved to Seattle, and have been working on the Google Talk team for about a month and a half. The goal of Google Talk is to make real-time communication as open as possible, and in that regard, I've been working to offer all of Google Talk's features into other clients. Currently, I'm working on making it as easy as possible for other clients to use Google Talk's voice features. You can expect Gaim and other clients to be interoperable with Google Talk's voice features in the near future.
There are so many ways these three companies can benefit each other. Comcast could provide the AOL software as its own front end to the internet. "Hey, look how easy it is to use Comcast Cable as opposed to Verizon DSL!" This would reduce the number of people who drop AOL because they have to pay for a broadband service on top of AOL to get AOL on broadband. "Now I can get AOL and a high speed connection for one price!" Non-broadband users could still subscribe to AOL dial-up if they wish. "Broadband costs too much, I want to stay with dial-up." AOL could provide the massive userbase Google needs to make its potential Office software suite popular. AOL software could be the distribution channel for a Google Office product that comes installed with AOL, rather than supplying the Office apps as a purely internet-based application. "Check out this Google Word Processor and Spreadsheet application, it just came with my new version of AOL!" Google gains more advertising revenue because now it can be the default search engine and office application for AOL and Comcast users.
Right now, yes. But they could've contracted him to add support for voice. If they hired him, they have long term plans, which probably means they want him to work on Google Talk.
Consider this: Sean adds voice to Gaim, so that Gaim is better than Google Talk, since Talk only supports Jabber. So Gaim kills Google Talk. It would make more sense for Google to pay Sean to bring Gaim up to speed, then use libgaim themselves to power Google Talk.
More google hi-res pr0n of geeky developers in the nude.
http://images.google.com/
I mean, just when everybody start thinking they've finally became just another big evil corporation, they go out there and do something good. And then everybody's confused again.
In the quote you gave:
He's not working on GoogleTalk, he's working on putting its features into other clients, not the least of which is GAIM.
Capitalism does not lead to corruption, lack of character does.
It seems to me that Google, contrary to other IT companies, actually sees its business as providing access to information, whereas companies like MS and AOL seek vendor lock-in for their file formats and protocols.
Some of you may have already realized this, but for me, I had this realization while reading this article summary. Google is like the first real IT company -- this is what the computer revolution was meant to be.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
By George, I think she's got it!
Considering Google Talk is a Windows app, and Google gives you instructions on how to configure several other Jabber clients to talk to their server, this is hardly surprising. It bodes well for us gaim users!
http://www.google.com/talk/otherclients.html
It bodes well for us gaim users!
And for users of other IM clients that use the GAIM libraries. I believe both Admium and Fire on the Mac make use of the GAIM libraries.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
There is a lot of potential for expanding GTalk, from client side, because all the flexibility that have the jabber protocol. Giving the gaim community and with it at least the GPL client base some backing in expanding it they are in fact expanding a lot the possible future uses of their server.
For me this is more that just opening the standards (that is mostly already done as they are jabber based) but in some way forcing (k, is a strong word, not english speaker to give a lesser meaning to the concept) the community to reach a full featured client implementation.
Of course, where is the money for google? one word: synergy.
Isn't it a pity that he was giving his time an effort out of a pure heart of charity and OSSness. Now he's a whore to the billion dollar corporate king of Internet advertizing. Google is in business for Google.
If they ever succeed in killing Microsoft they will keep right on making more money and serving up ads and taking over the Internet. You don't think so?
Has it ever bugged you that Google doesn't want to open source their search engine, or Gmail, or any of Google's other closed source software?
If you were consistent with yourself, it would bug the HECK out of you.
This is clearly a political move for Google. With their $ and resources they should be able to rewrite GAIM from scratch in a matter of 3-4 months. The only reason for hiring a head of a high-profile open-source project is to make a point. However what point it is exactly I am not yet sure.
I'm still waiting for Google to merge with Apple.
I want to get an iGoo, then I can search the web and download music and video from anywhere with wi-fi (which is pratically everywhere now).
...... was a chair hitting a wall in Redmond Washington.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
86 comments and one mention of IRC. Why are they trying to re-invent the wheel? They want open, anh scalable? There it is, IRC. Why not concentrate time on things like video connection, picture sharing, and other fluffy stuff you get in the private IM clients. DCC is there, can't be hard. All it needs is a shift to an "on-line/off-line" style, which could be as easy as logging on to a special channel. This sort of stuff could be built in without breaking previous versions of the protocol.
Well, sort of, and for free:
I installed GoogleTalk on the first day, but it kept crashing.
So I set up Gaim to use my Google account, and never started GT again.
I can sure undesrtand why Google would need someone from Gaim.
( Besides, since it's also Gsomething, they had to )
our FL/OSS is their GAIM ? :)
The problem with the email model is spam. I suspect that Google is concerned about rampant spam to their users if they open up their servers to the world.
... Google aims to maim AIM as it gains GAIM's main brain?
Right, and everybody else who contributed code and ideas freely to GAIM feeling like they were part of a "community" is probably feeling like a big schmuck right now.
Some people do the work, others get the credit...and the benefits. You gave a twenty dollar bill to the bum on the street, he bought a lottery ticket, won $20 million, and won't pay you back a dime -- who wouldn't feel foolish.
Who said open source doesn't pay? This is just another evidence that it pays to participate in the open source community, and to contribute code and knowledge.
Google The Messenger of the Future(Score:1) by thexgodfather (880849) on Wednesday October 12, @07:07PM (#13778643) http://www.google.com/talk/ [google.com]
Still needs a lot of work but the way google is spending money it will get the attention it needs soon.
I wouldn't be surprised if google talk spawns itself from gaim since it refrences gaim on its homepage. Anyone know how the legalities would work out of google talk kidnapped all of its code from gaim? lol
Clik here to see post
If you are thinking about working on an open source project, you have to justify the time you are spending. If you know that organizations like Google are looking at the 'stars' of the open source community for their next hires, you now have additional motivation to work on the open source project. This is certainly delayed (and uncertain) gratification, but it may be enough to add more open source developers. Besides, I don't seen any coersion here, so there really isn't anything to complain about.
Think global, act loco
This is a little offtopic, but it is probably the most relevant article that I can post it in.
Google is looking for Mac developers. Signs of more cross platform software coming from the Googleplex?
This is a little offtopic, but it is probably the most relevant article that I can post it in.
Google is looking for Mac developers. Signs of more cross platform software coming from the Googleplex?
maybe they can take some of that cash, and find away to support all hardware drivers, etc, that would be nice, make a linux distro
no pain, no gaim.
on an irrelevant side note ive got into this strange habbit of saying, "well our packet is their loss".
That quote confirms that he is improving Gaim, and not Google Talk. You have agreed with your parent post, which did not seem to be your intention.
What the heck is that? Something StarTrek related? :)
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Seriously, this is where I could see the slashdot "not having a girlfriend" comments come up. While you may have or have had a girlfriend, somehow I doubt you've had any type of long distance relationship in the modern age. Speaking as somebody who has, I would say that video is definately an improvement. Just seeing somebody you love or care about, their facial expressions, their hairstyle, etc, adds to the experience.
I'm fairly sure the same applies to those with family members a distance away, or long lost friends, etc. How about the father whose infant son is growing up without him because he's off fighting in Iraq... do you think that he considers seeing his kid a stupid addition that has no benefit over a text message? How about having his kid see and hear him, even if the best at that time is over the screen?
Just because a feature has no use for you and seems stupid doesn't in any way mean it isn't a very important thing to others... and as you can still have your text-only chat just fine I don't see why you would have such a negetive attitude. If you don't want the overhead, don't use video-chat.
the dirty gaim!
Scott McNealy to Michael: "Suck my Sun!" Michael Dell to Scott : "Lick my Dell!"
...the most popular IM client among Slashdotters?
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
With modern repositories, revision controls, and search engines it's hard to have a main developer. Everyone can contribute just as much as everyone else and know as much. This is the same problem Google had when it was VA I.O.U.. They hired the most well known programmers assuming there was a difference in knowledge level only to get nothing and watch development get done elsewhere.
Or other clients in general. May not be just GAIM.
I gotta end this lame joke chain. Let me do so with a suggestion for Google. This federation stuff is tricky. To stop spam and still be truely open simply don't let nonfederated servers make a join list request that actually shows up to the user on Google's end. So basically only let adding work from Google's or any of the federated partner's end amongst each other. Otherwise have adding work in a mutual matter: both people choose to add each other and then they both just get added. No "request" pops up. This then removes the problem of "request spam." It isn't ideal as you can't just give someone your business card and expect them to contact you (though they could email you and request that you add them), but it is better than gutting the key benefit of Jabber: its ability to let IM merge with and gain the legitimacy and ubiquity of email.
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
for Linux real soon :)
This is an amazing app under windows (so far fingers crossed), in fact, Google Talk is the only reason I have a windows box running at this site. Skype wishes it was google talk.
gaim opens a window saying so, in effect saying "fuck you" to me. My concentration apparently isn't important.
gaim opens another window showing a reconnecting progress bar. Fuck you again.
That might fail, so it opens still more windows. Fuck you!
Eventually it succeeds. And gaim opens a window showing my buddy list. FUCK YOU!
Jesus H Christ! Does a single person in the world think this is helpful?
(And, for what it's worth, I have it on good account that its internals aren't pretty either.)
You're a suburbanite.
IM has been virtually free of direct spam attacks (I have only received one in my entire life)
:o)
eh...I get something like two a day for two weeks every couple of months. It really depends on if your name is posted anywhere.
the crazy part is that on AIM spamming with links is now something the server software apparently looks for, so now AIM spam doesn't even have hyperlinks. it looks like this:
sluxf9lr239265: %n, I was wondering if you would like to come check out my profile on this dating site I belong to. Let me know what you think, I am about 15 miles from you. Here is my info page, www-AdultMM-ru-tf (replace the - with a Dot or period so you are able to go to the site, see you soon
Who the hell is clicking this stuff?
i use to try to submit patches to GAIM. the guy not only did not accept the patches, he didn't even reply to me in any way whatsoever.
the code was a mess. complete and utter spaghetti.
and furthermore, the whole heavy lifting of interoperability depends on a library that the GAIM author didn't write. GAIM is simply a shoddy GUI on top of a hacked library that violates AOL's license agreement by its very existence.
i really have to wonder about the google people. did they even look at this code? did they even test the program to see how unusable and ugly it is? what kind of process did they go through when hiring this guy? id sell my stock now if i were a money man.
but can you make the link between reading my email and controlling every aspect of my life more explicit?
Imagine that you are a big google fan.
Google already knows about what kind of information you seek on the web, what web pages you read and browse, it also knows about all the emails you send and receive (and they are never deleted, even if you delete them, Google still keeps them), all the instant messages which you exchange with different people. It also hopes to become your bank (Google Wallet), your library, your shopping mall, your newspaper, and as things get more integrated with the web maybe it wall have access to your medical records, your tax records, insurance records, etc., almost every aspect of your life.
OK, so what?
Scenario 1: Imagine countries like China, or even the Patriot Act, or imagine the powers to be getting paranoid (the way they got about Communism during fifties), they can easily arm-twist Google to reveal all your personal information. The FBI, CIA persons can then go through all your personal and private stuff. Even if you are an honest person, and they cannot do you any direct harm, they might leak information about you the way it was done about but "Valerie Plame" to discredit "Wilson". The possibilities are endless.
Scenario 2: Google was born in the machine learning lab of Stanford. Although machine learning is a powerful science, which can do immense good to humans, for example in biology, chemistry, business, Internet, etc. But like any other technology it can be exploited too. What I am worried about is some behemoth (which Google hopes to become) having all the information about every bit of our personal life. You will become focus of targeted advertising (this is already happening, but is still not very sophisticated), if you are buying or looking for houses, where ever you go on web you will be shown real estate ads, furniture ads, imagine whatever you decide to do, they start you showing ads related to that (this can be good or bad depends upon perspective). Whatever you shop or choices you make is controlled some way or the other by google. Imagine, going to a car agent, who is somehow affiliated to Google, you tell him your name and in minutes he knows most of your background, whether you are there just for fun, or are you seriously interested in buying a car. To sum up, it is the loss of privacy, handing over my choices and decisions to corporations, is what I am worried about the most.
Creativity uninhibited www.kreeti.com
After what seems like an eternity, the IM world is gradually inching towards interoperability. Yahoo! & Microsoft have reached a deal that will allow their instant messaging programs to talk to each other. This is expected to be in place by June 2006. It's time for AIM & Google Talk to join the gang. Although Google is already using open standards that would allow compatible messengers to communicate with it, I'm not sure Yahoo! and Microsoft would be interested in taking it into their fold. AOL is already being sold in bits-&-pieces and Microsoft and Google are in talks with it for a stake. How things shape up remains to be seen and could well herald a new direction for instant messaging. One mustn't forget how ferociously AIM had protected its turf in the past. It's the original foe of interoperability! AOL then proceeded to buy the world's first and easily the best instant messenger of its time (ICQ)...and thoroughly ruin it. Even looking at the empty contact list in ICQ was a pleasure!
Your choice of occupation and your relationship with the Man are largely harmless, ethically neutral expressions of personal preference, and to oppose them is tyranny. On the other hand, when young men are arrested and imprisoned because they have copied proprietary computer programs, on the basis that such punishments are necessary in order to preserve and maintain the useful trade of computer programming---you must agree that this raises moral issues not merely for the computer programming trade but for anyone who dislikes to see shy, unlucky boys made miserable.
Nevertheless you have my sympathy, and I share your dismay at the haughty, superficial, and mean-spirited attacks that so pervade this perennial tech-culture war.
Try reading that again, except substituting this at the end:
Why can't all *countries* be like Google??? The world would be a better place.
Hello, 1990's Europe wants their bright idea back. Oh wait, it didn't work.
Good point. Chances are an open implementation of this will help other client development by association anyway. :)