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Blackberry Competitor Announced
conq wrote to mention a BusinessWeek article reporting that NTP has licensed its wireless email patent to a new Blackberry competitor. Essentially, they're creating a competitor to Blackberry out of whole cloth, and bolstering their case against the popular handheld device maker. From the article: "The deal comes amid dwindling options for RIM, seller of the popular BlackBerry e-mail paging service. NTP four years ago successfully sued RIM for infringing on NTP's wireless e-mail patents. After a tentative $450 million settlement fell apart in June, RIM has battled back through court appeals, holding out hope that the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office (PTO) will strike down NTP's patents." This has not been a good month for RIM.
My Pocket PC PDA phone finally failed after I ripped out the charging jack by accident. A family member had an unused Blackberry 7100 phone that I threw my SIM card into. I've been using in for 2 days and I honestly believe the Blackberry is one of the worst produced handhelds I have ever seen. The scroll wheel is efficient only if you use the push e-mail, but the device does not seem very powerful, intuitive or expandable. Simple can be a good thing, but not if simple means "simple enough for the mentally challenged."
If Blackberry's major market was offering non-techie CEOs an easy to use device, I guess it works fine. Yet as common PC users become power users, I'd guess they'll outgrow the device and want more power and expandability (and customizable user interface). Using it right now reminds me more of an etch-a-sketch combined with a speak-and-spell. The Blackberry with T-mobile doesn't even use T-mobiles GPRS Internet plan, they want me to get some Blackberry plan. Even my old Nokias use the GPRS Internet plan (a great backup if you break phones as often as I do).
If Blackberry beats out the patent problems, will they have much of a future with a product that seems outdated by almost 5 years? Do many users here use their Blackberry and like it? I've been using PDAs since before the original Newton, and this device is just hokey. I feel like I have a trophy wife that looks nice but doesn't actually do anything. What am I missing?
So Visto have managed to licence what appears to be a non-existant set of patents from a company no-one has heard of. They must be betting the barn that the US legal system continues to come down hard on RIM and they have to shut up shop. Visto aren't new though, they've been around providing push email services for a while.. so perhaps they just bottled out when the NTP lawyers turned up.
One final point.. do you think that RIM would be having these problems if it was a US company rather than a Canadian one? Microsoft gets away with infringing patents all the time, but it's yet to be proved that RIM actually *has* and yet they are punished far more harshly than Microsoft ever was.
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
I fulyl agree personaly i am waiting for the i-mates to hit and work in the US market.. then i too can have a trophy wife.... one that can do everything
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
So what were you using previously?
I'm on the look out for a good PDA phone and need some recommendations.
Bullet Points with a Passion:
* NTP licensed their patents to an existing player named Visto. They also gained a stake in them as a result.
* This is the same Visto that sued Microsoft today for patent infringement with their Windows Mobile 5.0 software and it's ability to send/receive e-mail.
* This "new" competitor has been in business since 1996. I've been personally aware of their e-mail solution for the last couple years.
This seems relevant, and it's been on my mind for a while, so I might as well ask it here.
Does anyone here have a working understanding of how software patents came about in America, or how they got so out of hand? This one strikes me as particularly idiotic, being that they patented... wireless email.
Hell, I sent out an email a few minutes ago and I'm currently on a wireless LAN. Does that mean I or Yahoo! (technically) owe these fucks royalties?
I just wish a new computer platform of some kind would come out.
Then I'd go out there and patent the idea of running all the normal clients we're used to on said platform.
Or hell, I wonder if wireless P2P, Gopher, FTP, etc. are all taken already?
I wonder if you can patent the act of granting patents? Sure, there's tons of prior art, but it's not as if we're looking for that, anyhow...
I was using the HP iPAQ h6315 Pocket PC phone. WiFi, Bluetooth, GPRS, great screen, great battery, tons of expandability. This was T-mobile worst product in terms of user ratings, but it worked flawless for me. I loved the phone and it made me a lot of money over year.
Unfortunately, T-mobile no longer has a Pocket PC PDA phone. I won't get a Treo (hate Palm and Linux isn't ready yet), I won't get a Blackberry. I could buy a phone from HP and adapt it to T-mobile, but T-mobile offers a $70 replacement fee for any phone you buy from them for the life of the product. They offered me a $70 Treo or a $70 Blackberry since they discontinued the h6315. If they would get a new Pocket PC on their lineup, I'd pay full retail for it instantly. Unfortunately, they had so many "problems" with the h6315 that I doubt we'll see much in the near future.
Announced? Wake me up when it's released, please.
Guy asked me for a quarter for a cup of coffee. So I bit him.
It seems like there is an, oh, %99.9999999 percent chance that any licensee of NTP will get sued for patent infringement by RIM. It's highly unlikely that RIM itself doesn't have patents, and they'll be more than happy to return the favor to the evildoers.
Or, they'll just buy that competitor for 1/10th the price that NTP wants for patenting nothing non-obvious. (And then require them file TPS reports six times each day in retribution.)
Here in DC, everyone and their mother has a blackberry. To think that there is no market for blackberry is ridiculous.
The only thing it has going for it is the push email. My MS Smartphone receives email but only when it connects and checks my mailbox. Maybe if I had an important email that was received 1 minute after it just checked, I'd have to wait 29 more minutes to have it automatically check again. If my almost half-hour were THAT important to me, I would consider a BB.
You're right though.. they SUCK as a PDA but that's because they aren't supposed to be PDAs. It's an email terminal and nothing else. The user interface is complete crap, the scroll wheel is impossible to get used to. The only thing it does well is make and receive calls and email push.
Reviews with a twist! http://www.sardonicbastard.com
The Blackberry is the most amazing device of its kind ever invented. unlike your other toy that does many things poorly, the BlackBerry does a few things extremely well. You probably were in withdrawal of crashes, application debugging and rebooting. Unfortunately, the BlackBerry offers none of these features.
Agreed.
My treo 600 is far easier to use and certianly far more expandable. And unlike it's newer brother the 650 it never reboots or locks up. (It's good to have old technology)
Yes I carry both on my belt. Corperate email on the blackberry and personal on the treo. I can answer personal email faster on my treo than on the blackberry and web surfing is a royal pita on the blackberry having to click twice on every link.
I still can not understand why the blackberry does not have a touch screen.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Wow, a ridiculous patent system backed by corporations now results in the very same corporations going after each other based on ideas that are almost intuitive. Pretty soon some company will patent the process of breathing. Think it's far fetched? We'll living things are patentable.
http://www.stockmarketgarden.com/
I think the only "real" market now is police and government. My boss is affiliated with the Florida Highway Patrol and they assigned him a BB along with a bunch of his other associates.. I made a test call when I set it up and I bet its never been used since, that's another story though.
Reviews with a twist! http://www.sardonicbastard.com
It comes with the default "straw-" skin but will come with different skins: "blue-", "red-", and "rasp-". Even a novel skin "black-" will make it's debut when RIM goes down in flaming glory after the Strawberry squashes the Blackberry.
:wq
1. Patent obvious idea but never implement it
:D
2. Wait till a fool does
3. Sue / License
4. Profit!!
Don't we love America?
I had a 6315 for some time. Awesome little device, just needed more speed. It finally stopped crashing daily after the latest patch. I missed Symbian, though, so I switched back to my old 3650 until the Nokia E61 comes out.
Someday, someone will get it right. I recommend looking at the HP iPAQ hw6515 if you liked the 6315. You can pop the Tmo SIM into it and it works just fine.
- oZ
// i am here.
http://www.palm.com/us/products/smartphones/treo65 0/
Why isn't this a Blackberry competitor?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
On a side note, the company NTP signed a licensing agreement with, Visto, also filed a lawsuit against Microsoft yesterday claiming infringement on the three of the patents they hold. Alas, I have submitted the story and awaiting for approval, but it appears that NTP also acquired a stake in Visto. Interestingly enough, it seems the Visto claims are somewhat similar to the NTP v. RIM, but that could just be the media talking again. It is possible the patents in question actually deal with another part of the wireless e-mail chain and that the media is just getting confused amongst the technology again.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
With such a generic patent (wireless email) and success against RIM, will they go after the Treo next? Other "smartphones" ?
I'm not sure what the secret to success is, but the secret to failure lies in trying to please everyone -Bill Cosby
The original Blackberries were B&W, and they were glorified pagers. They worked damn well at it too. They did have API's to add new programs to the device, and there were a hand full of vendors, through since the backbone networks were Datatak/Mobitex, they couldn't send to the internet without a 'middleware' server.
I must admit that I fell in love with this product almost instantly upon using it. My only grudge was my company gave me a 950 (2x4 in. screen) vs. the really sexy (4x4 in. screen).
Oh, and about the scroll wheel, I can see that if you're not used to it, it could be crap, but I really got to like it... hell, try playing mindsweeper on it and then you can graduate from scroll wheel academy!
Bye!
How many mayors, governors, Congressmen, CEOs, executives have Blackberries? A lot.
Maybe if they feel the pain of the patent system they will put pressure on to change it.
Granted, nothing may come of it. But change rarely happens without convincing people of a need for change.
How many times have you gotten your server/whatever by on a limited budget. What's the best way to get the appropriate amount of resources without requiring unnecessary heroics? Let something break so people see the need.
That can backfire, but it is still the best way.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
"We felt [NTP's] patent portfolio was something that would provide our customers with the added insurance on top of what our portfolio provided."
Added insurance.
Not a better technology, just insurance that the products and services we sell you wont be ripped away. Is that what the patent system has become?
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
I don't know. I rather like my 7100t. Perhaps it is because I'm comparing it to the crap cellphones everyone else has, but it seems pretty nice to me.
:(, it is a bit clunky with the USB cable attached.
A few points:
1. No connector conspiracy. Uses bog standard USB to charge and the headphone jack is the most generic one available.
2. Integrated browser seems to work reasonably well, although it's kinda slow
3. The address book could use some UI tweaks, but it's loads better than most address books on phones that I've seen.
4. The text input works reasonably well. Occasionally it gets tripped up on a word (and I usually know what words it's going to have trouble with, so this isn't as bad as it could be), but it is a bit awkward to go back and edit stuff. Still, it's the fastest text input I've seen this side of the full size Blackberries. Blows regular cell phone (multi-tap) text input out of the water.
5. No MP3 support, no camera. The lack of a camera is a big plus for me, I work in places where you can bring a cell phone in, but not a camera. The lack of MP3 support isn't an issue for me either because I own an iPod.
6. The phone is largely unrestricted as to what you can load onto it. There's no rediculous charge to load ringtones or backgrounds. You can either load these from your computer or just over the network (any picture you load in the browser can be set as your background).
7. You can use the phone as a modem--although not over the Bluetooth.
8. Battery life is pretty reasonable. I've had it for 7 months now and the battery still lasts for 4-5 days without being turned off. Playing games on the phone drains the battery faster (can only play for 5-8 hours or so before the battery is dead). I've never killed the battery with talking, but I'm not a big talker.
9. The screen is gorgous. Among the best screens available in cell phones. It's a great when paired with the web browser, but it's also good for reading emails if you set the font size small and have good eyes.
10. The included belt clip is a bit disappointing. The cell phone will fall out if you move too vigoriously, and sometimes it falls out when I'm sitting in low riding cars. It will also scratch the screen if you're working in an environment where there is sand or other abrasives in the air.
Overall I'm very happy with the phone. It seems to hit the sweet spot between performance and functionality IMHO and the integrated email works like a charm. I'm going to be sad if RIM is forced to close down due to some stupid submarine patent.
I read the internet for the articles.
From Canada'a Globe And Mail:
M .20051214.wrimm1214/BNStory/Technology/
http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGA
Of note from the story:
"Donald Stout, a patent lawyer and co-founder of NTP, said the deal should help his firm's case before the patent office. "RIM has been saying our patents are no good, but we have had three major companies sign up to license them. If there was nothing there, no one would deal with us," he said. "This suggests we can do business with people and licences get worked out.""
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
1. Go back to old way patents were done - which includes working implementation upon application. Thus ideas become unpatentable. Same with business methods. It will also render 90% all the unreadable legalese to obscure what you are patenting obsolete.
2. Punish non-English application. No, I don't mean application in a foreign language, just the ones that read like they are. Plain english is a must. Jail time in Gitmo otherwise.
2. Raise price to apply for patent to $10,000 - while it may seem to screw the "little guy" it actually will kill corporations trying to patent every little thing. Even a little operation will be able to afford to patent 1 worthwhile application, but will corporate America still be able to afford to apply for 10's of thousands of trivial patents?
3. Part of application fee (say 1/2) will go as a bounty to anybody who can disprove it - in other words show prior art, etcetera. This could be anybody - college students, professors, employees of another company.
That's it:)
Several hundred politicians will have to throw away their $600 mobile phone when the service provider gets killed off by the brain-damaged laws they passed. Serves the greedy bastards (politicians, not RIM) right.
Simple can be a good thing, but not if simple means "simple enough for the mentally challenged."
:)
Remember the intended audience. CEO's and self important VPs. They can't handle complicated technology. Face it the blackberry is just a replacement for the standard etch-a-sketch that most PHBs have trouble with.
The thing is.. the BlackBerry was made to send and recieve e-mail messages, and thats what its specialized for. The other things that it has are basically add on's.
Its kind of like why did iPOD's become to popular when we already have PDA's that can do almost everything that it does and much more.
Its all about simplicity towards the end user. They want to get from point A to point B as fast and easily as possible. And the fact that the balckBerry and the iPOD have been huge successes says enough..
Amen.
I have the 650 and experience random reboots, usually when I'm trying to enter a note and oddly enough the last two times were both when I hit the 'j' button. The 650 is a really nice device though... Rip out the idiotic camera and give it a DECENT phone application and it'd be killer. (Honestly, why the fuck is the phone app so ... weak? Not just unintuitive, but counter-intuitive operation, no voice call feature for BT... ugh.) I've been looking for a third-party phone app (and SIP phone app too) but so far no go. :-(
Other new competitors will be : blueberry, huckleberry, cranberry, loganberry, raspberry, dingleberry, gooseberry, durian, blackcurrant, cloudberry, wolfberry, mulberry, wineberry, bearberry, bilberry, salmonberry, elderberry, pinapple and the banana 2000.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
The BB has probably the best j2me support. Very easy to program for. Supports many JSRs without much nonsense. I don't care for the form factor or the scrollwheel though. The push email is very nice, though not necessary, for me. .Net for it, but again, this was not a huge deal. I don't like the keyboard much, but otherwise, not too shabby.
The Treo 650 is a pretty sweet device. This is my primary phone/pda.The latest software patches seem to have made it fairly stable. The keyboard is the best, the screen is amazing. Developing daemon software for it in j2me is not feasible, however, since the device suspends java apps when the screen turns off (which is all the time). However, we are dedoing our app in Palm's native stuff, and it is not bad.
The windows phones are not too bad either (Sprint 6600, 6601, 6700). We did have to redevelop our software in
So, for anyone to select what they like from these devices for daily use, it would probably come down to personal preference. My favorite is the Treo 650. But the others definitely have their own stuff that can make them more attractive to users of a different profile.
-naeem
[shameless plug]Check out our company, Agilis Systems for GPS tracking and Mobile Resource Management software[/shameless plug]
I want a RIM JOB! (cue the audience).
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they are trying to pressure RIM into settling before the patent office invalidates all their patents
the so called competitors who are 'licensing' the technology are really being invested in by NTP. they arent paying for anything, NTP is buying part of them and giving it to them to try and scare RIM into settling..
its really weak
not being entirely sure of the phrase's meaning:
Cut out of whole cloth
CUT OUT OF WHOLE CLOTH - "Wholly false; without foundation of truth. Back in the fifteenth century, 'whole cloth' was used synonymously with 'broad cloth,' that is, cloth that ran the full width of the loom. The term dropped into disuse along in the eighteenth century, except in the figurative sense. In early use, the phrase retained much of the literal meaning, a thing was fabricated out of the full amount or extent of that which composed it.But by the nineteenth century it would appear that tailors or others who made garments were pulling the wool over the eyes of their customers, for, especially in the United States, the expression came to have just the OPPOSITE meaning. Instead of using whole material, as they advertised, they were really using patched or pieced goods, or, it might be, cloth which had been falsely stretched to appear to be of full width." From "A Hog on Ice" by Charles Earle Funke (1948, Harper & Row)
So when they say "they're creating a competitor to Blackberry out of whole cloth", what are they implying?
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
you mean RIM Competitor Announced? Anyways, a neat Blackberry competitor http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details/0 ,,113,00.html
Interesting. I have a Blackberry 7290 (traditional form factor, full keyboard) that I just switched to from a Treo 650. Prior to that I had a Treo 600. Both of my Treo's worked ok, but there were nagging issues. Battery life was painful. Address book sync over the air to my email system (I have Novell GroupWise at the office) was very, very spotty. Same with email and calendar sync. My Treo's would reboot about every couple of days, for no good reason. Yeah, the web browsing was better on the Treo. I had plenty of add on software on it, but at it's heart, the Treo felt like a Palm that had a phone taped to the back of it. You couldn't even dial conference calls out of the calendar. It was kludgey.
On the other hand you have my Blackberry. Smaller, darker screen. No auto backlight, but most of the time I don't need it. Battery life on the Blackberry makes a Nokia look like child's play. It'll go for hours on conference calls without breaking a sweat. The applications are integrated, and they remember where you were in them when you leave and come back. So, if I dial a call out of my address book and flip to my calendar, it's on the same day that I had it on previously.
Are there drawbacks? Sure. I miss my games. I wish it had a better screen. But it's fast, stable, reliable, and built for what I need it for. I will go days without checking my email on my computer, because I trust the integration on my Blackberry.
If you need something as a toy to impress others on a plane, get a Treo. If you need a business tool to keep you in touch with your address book and calendar and email, get a Blackberry.
Tim
See... and you thought your sig was boring - TT
Think again. BB is really big in large corporations.
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
It's surprising to me that there is one very large group in the portable email device market that is consistently overlooked: Drug dealers. If there is any group that depends wholly on reliability of their Blackberry devices and could benefit from competition, it would be the miscellaneous crack, heroin, and meth dealers that inhabit our neighborhoods, hallways, and emergency rooms. They provide an invaluable service to congressmen and other miscellaneous lawyers, airline pilots, musicians, school bus drivers, doctors, clergy, SCO executives, Courtney Love, and daycare providers across the country. Their lives are on the line every day, and if there is no reliable wireless email system for these upstanding members of society, the entire industry will fail to thrive and eventually die. WE CAN'T LET THIS HAPPEN! OUR TRADE GAP WITH CHINA WILL SOAR! Without the drug dealers, there would be no DEA! And what do you suppose we would do then?!?! Go NTP go!
Oh please! I've used at least 3 different BB and 5 different PPCs over the years. You surely must be forgetting the most important limitation of the PPC platform--stability. It's crap. Throw a phone into the PPC OS and I hope you never need it in an emergency. Oh yeah, and if you want always on email on a PPC you'll have to be prepared to charge your battery every 12 hours. Blackberry? Gone as long as 11 days before I voluntarily recharged. Let's at least be honest and fair here. RIM has produced an excellent product--otherwise NTP would be dumpster diving outside the PTO for someone else to extort.
A friend of mine is starting at RIM in January.
Hope he enjoys his RIMjob while it lasts.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
The Treo 600 was the biggest POS I've ever had to deal with. I'd say literally 7 of 10 units were defective and had to be replaced. I'm on my 3rd - and it's been good for 6 months (and no other problems for awhile...so hopefully whatever was wrong with the batches or something they fixed)
Fun features:
- sucks back the power
- run out of power and everything erases itself
The only thing Treos have going for them is GoodLink...GoodLink is just plain awesome.
There are many devices that do a lot of things better than a BlackBerry, but no one does Email better than a BlackBerry does. When you have full Enterprise integration with wireless sync, it's almost like having Outlook everywhere you go. If you read a new email on your BlackBerry, it gets marked as read in Outlook (via Exchange). Reply to an email and it shows up as "replied" and a copy of your email is inserted into your Sent box. It takes some time to get used to, and I didn't like it at first, but now I can't imagine going back to not having it, and I know MANY people that can't live without it.
If you're using a BlackBerry device with only POP3 accounts or with Exchange without Wireless Sync, there are many other devices, particularly Treos, that are much better suited. The 7100 (which is what I have) has much better phone functionality than previous BlackBerries, but it's not nearly as good as modern, dedicated phone interface (like a Samsung or Sony Ericsson). You really have to be close to your email to appreciate a BlackBerry.
The only thing it has going for it is the push email. My MS Smartphone receives email but only when it connects and checks my mailbox. Maybe if I had an important email that was received 1 minute after it just checked, I'd have to wait 29 more minutes to have it automatically check again. If my almost half-hour were THAT important to me, I would consider a BB
My T-mobile h6315 had "push e-mail" too. An SMS notification came in to the phone, was captured by software that hid the SMS and downloaded the e-mail to your client. It was transparent and nearly instantaneous -- I'd get e-mails literally 30 seconds after the sender sent it. It worked flawlessly for a number of accounts.
and web surfing is a royal pita on the blackberry having to click twice on every link.
Hint: click-hold substitutes for click-twice.
Just don't get used to click-hold for the back-button; that'll knock you back to the desktop.
Kineska: Cinema, soapbox, music & musings
Tech CEOs are not important in the greater scheme of things. Blackberries are bought in the hundreds by investment banks for their new graduates, as well as for every level of management. These are people who use computers every day, but whose primary functions are more along the lines of research, analysis and client relations. They use computers for spreadsheets and word processing, but aren't really bothered about learning more.
Outside of investment banks, the same is true in government, law and other areas of business.
These people *swear* by their Blackberries. Just ask them.
It isn't just for non-techie CEOs. It's pretty much for ANY non-techies. That includes Salespeople and middle management.
The Blackberry with T-mobile doesn't even use T-mobiles GPRS Internet plan, they want me to get some Blackberry plan.
This is most likely because the BlackBerry really shines when connected to the push email server (via the BlackBerry Enterprise Server). If memory serves, T-Mobile has their own BES servers, and that's what the special plan is for. Also, I don't think older BlackBerries had their own TCP stack, so the BES server would be required for data transfer. The newer OS allows you to completely bypass the BES servers, so you might actually be able to use one with normal GPRS Internet... until they catch you.
Do many users here use their Blackberry and like it? I've been using PDAs since before the original Newton, and this device is just hokey. I feel like I have a trophy wife that looks nice but doesn't actually do anything. What am I missing?
If you were looking for the BlackBerry to replace your PDA, you will almost certainly be disappointed. It doesn't have nearly the power or software library that a Pocket PC offers. But for what it was designed for, it does far better than its competitors. It was designed for basic PIM, email and messaging. And the phone is an add-on. That means that if you are using it for email, calendar, task list and instant messaging, it's a great device. Compared to Pocket PC it's very stable and has a much, much longer battery life. My BlackBerry regularly goes for five or six days between charges, which includes moderate use as a phone. The push email provides more or less instant access to messages as they come in, and these days I wouldn't be caught dead without it. Oh, and with respect to the thumbwheel, you get used to it. For reading emails, it's much better than a stylus. You can do the whole thing one-handed.
Up until recently, there has been little or no competition for the BlackBerry infrastructure (which provides push email among other things). This is starting to change, and I predict that within the next year that Research In Motion will have to do something stunning to keep their hold on the market.
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
If you would like to appeal this, I may settle with you for $450 million or we can simply spend the next 20 years discussing this in a court of law or until such time as telepathy is mastered and email is no longer needed.
btw, I love my blackberry and I'm a techie. I have a 7120 from Nextel and I've been very happy. I've seen people with the Windows based phones and I personally don't care for them. If you upgrade the firmware to the latest version you actually get a real HTML browser which is nice.
Obama = Socialism.
NTP's patent is pretty much irrelevant; there are plenty of ways of getting real-time E-mail to your device, with polling and IMAP IDLE being the most obvious choices. RIM is only stuck because NTP zeroed in on them early and because (apparently) their implementation infringes.
RIM could probably have worked around this patent easily. But my impression from using their product a little is that they aren't very good technically anyway.
So, let NTP and RIM destroy each other; hopefully, companies like Palm will benefit from that.
1. No connector conspiracy. Uses bog standard USB to charge and the headphone jack is the most generic one available.
:(, it is a bit clunky with the USB cable attached.
This is huge. My one poblem with USB charging has been the slowness in the past, but I believe this has been "fixed." I spoke with an HTC alpha tester and it seems HTC has offered manufacturers a USB port instead of a proprietary one, but the manufacturers prefer the proprietary one. Hopefully this will change soon.
2. Integrated browser seems to work reasonably well, although it's kinda slow
I use two browsers on my PocketPC Phone: Pocket IE with MultiIE (great app!) and NetFront. They both are so fast I am surprised I am on a 3.6K GPRS connection. I post 99% of my slashdot posts here with my Pocket PC Phone, I can't imagine doing it on a blackberry.
3. The address book could use some UI tweaks, but it's loads better than most address books on phones that I've seen.
This may be true of basic phone. I hate the Blackberry address book. I prefer the touch screen apps I've used for my Pocket PC phone. I ended up making my own address book using HTML on my server and it works even better.
4. The text input works reasonably well. Occasionally it gets tripped up on a word (and I usually know what words it's going to have trouble with, so this isn't as bad as it could be), but it is a bit awkward to go back and edit stuff. Still, it's the fastest text input I've seen this side of the full size Blackberries. Blows regular cell phone (multi-tap) text input out of the water.
I grow my right thumb nail really long and pointy and can type super fast on my Pocket PC phone. Some people I AIM with can't believe I'm on a phone. Then again, I've been using that thumb nail for probably 10 years since the Newton days.
5. No MP3 support, no camera. The lack of a camera is a big plus for me, I work in places where you can bring a cell phone in, but not a camera. The lack of MP3 support isn't an issue for me either because I own an iPod.
I use my crappy Pocket PC camera once in a while, but without it I wouldn't miss it. I use the MP3 support always, one less device to carry. Fidelity is surprisingly good, too.
6. The phone is largely unrestricted as to what you can load onto it. There's no rediculous charge to load ringtones or backgrounds. You can either load these from your computer or just over the network (any picture you load in the browser can be set as your background).
Yeah, my h6315 could use WAV and MP3 for ringtones and any graphic format for backgrounds. I don't use them at all, sort of useless to me.
7. You can use the phone as a modem--although not over the Bluetooth.
Really? That is ridiculous. My h6315 has built-in Bluetooth dial up networking, per spec. When I have my micronotebook, I get a quick GPRS connection that works great. I hate cables.
8. Battery life is pretty reasonable. I've had it for 7 months now and the battery still lasts for 4-5 days without being turned off. Playing games on the phone drains the battery faster (can only play for 5-8 hours or so before the battery is dead). I've never killed the battery with talking, but I'm not a big talker.
That's awesome. I'm on the phone all day long. I have used almost 5000 minutes in my record month and I use gigs of GPRS data. My T-mobile plan I've had since the Voicestream days is still in effect, and I rarely pay over $100. I also get unlimited SMS.
9. The screen is gorgous. Among the best screens available in cell phones. It's a great when paired with the web browser, but it's also good for reading emails if you set the font size small and have good eyes.
I could say my h6315 was awesome, I think. The 7100 I'm temporarily using has a gorgeous resolution, though. Really sharp, great anti-aliasing.
10. The included belt clip is a bit disappointing. The cell phone will fa
I have often heard the expression "made up out of whole cloth." Given the usage it would appear to be roughly akin to "out of thin air," but why? I should think "whole" cloth would connote some substance rather than the nothingness the phrase seems to imply. Can you shed some light on the background of this expression? -- Barbara Benedict, Mesquite, NV.
... measureth out of the whole cloath his Honour with his sword.").
Breaking news! This just in -- English language makes no sense! Film at 11!
You're right, of course. To "make something up out of whole cloth," often referring to a story or explanation for something, means to simply invent it, and implies that the finished product is a fable, containing not a particle of truth. Since cloth is one of our more familiar everyday materials, it seems an odd choice as a metaphor for "nothing" or "having no basis in fact." But this use of "out of whole cloth" has been a standard figure of speech in English since at least the early 19th century.
The explanation lies in the fact that since the 15th century "whole cloth" has been used to mean an entire piece of cloth, in its original uncut state, as opposed to portions of the "whole cloth" that might have already been cut in preparation for making a suit or dress, for example. "Whole cloth" was used in as a metaphor for a variety of things, from a parcel of land before it was divided into lots to more poetic concepts such as the experience of battle ("The valiant Souldier
The use of "out of whole cloth" to mean "invented" or "imaginary," on the other hand, dates back only to the early 1800s and seems to carry the same general sense as "from scratch," meaning that the story or excuse is not merely an exaggeration of fact, but was concocted from first word until last from entirely new (albeit imaginary) material.
A second-hand recommendation but my roommate just got one of the new Sprint pocket pc phones, and it's pretty slick.
I don't really understand why everyone is getting so upset about this. Do you really think the US government will allow anything to happen to RIM? What is it that one high level government official said? Something like: "You can pry it out of my cold dead hands".
Adventure City Tours
Funny, most Blackberry lovers look at it in exactly the opposite way - that their devices are lean, functional, stable machines for doing real work. The Palm and Windows Mobile devices are "pretty" and have lots of useless gadgety features that make them unstable and unsuitable for critical applications.
Why do you think government, police and financial companies are some of the biggest die-hard Blackberry users? It's because they live and die by e-mail, and the Blackberry is the only device that is really reliable and has full e-mail functionality.
Half of the posts I read by Treo and Windows Mobile users say something like "sure it crashes or has weird error messages sometimes, but it plays MP3s and videos and has a camera and wi-fi and and and!!!". The Blackberry fits the opposite niche: sure it doesn't play MP3s or videos or have a camera or wi-fi, but it Just Works(tm).
BTW, to preempt nitpickers, I should say that there is a Wi-Fi BlackBerry with SIP VoIP capability, which it has in lieu of a GSM/GPRS or CDMA radio, not in addition to. It's called the 7270.
fnord.
You forgot "snozzberry"
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
That's interesting. Before my h6315 died, I had one of my programmers adapting the SMS-email-notification software to open my Outlook Web Access instead of POP3. Our beta software worked very well, and handled everything the BB seems to do. I _can_ understand how people love it for its simplicity in doing e-mail, though, but for me it just isn't enough. E-mail isn't even a major communication channel for me anymore, there's a myriad of other ways I receive communications, so that is likely why the BB fails in my eyes. Thanks for the review though.
I've been using a BlackBerry for a few years now, and I agree that the 6230 (B&W), 6280 (Color), and 7100 (Color, more phone-like) are all really bad products. They're great for email and that's about it.
Two days ago I received a 8700c, and it's pretty nice. Higher resolution display, faster processor, more memory, bluetooth, speaker phone, and an EDGE connection. The only thing I don't like is that Cingular deletes the Bluetooth modem service book, so I can't use it to access the net with my laptop.
The only thing I want now is a smaller handset. It's still larger than the calculator I had in college.
Time marches on... missing is the R&D investment sucked out of RIM to advance their platform. The NTP litigation has done that. What you have in your hand is circa 1996 technology. Missing by todays standards: color, backlight, speakerphone, pda functions, etc...
What you are missing is that despite the shitty earpiece design RIM got the BusinessClass form factor right. What you are missing is that despite T-mobile's loser Blackberry plan, the functionality RIM got right for the BusinessClass.
RIM spec backlit greyscale Blackberry, great earpiece, spkrphone, AND built-in pager functionality are the minimalist specs that reflects 2006 US BusinessClass. No games, ringtones, bluetooth, PDA etc... just bog standard communication device.
RIM when communication counts delivered. Forget all the toys...
A case... which without proof that they are actively pursuing the development of their technology is shakey. NTP have proved they are willing to blackmail the market for using its technology. Licensing to Visto takes the BlackmailMonkey off NTP's back and positions their IP in terms of serving a marketplace.
I don't think it serves their RIM case but is a firewall defense to future litigants.
I have had my 7290 for about two months now, and it is by far the most useful PDA or phone I have ever had, by miles... You think it's only useful for sending mail, and no good as a PDA? I will venture to guess you were not using a Blackberry + BES + Exchange server. Writing myself a task or note, having it sync with the Exchange server is the most useful thing ever. Having full on Exchange Contacts, Tasks, Mail, Calendar, etc., a QWERTY keyboard, an extremely well thought out interface... what more do you need in a PDA? I dont even need to sync it with my laptop, ever, because I use BES. It's all done over the air, in about 2 seconds. I leave my laptop at work now over night, since I have full access to my mail server and all its goodies, plus SSH through the Idokorro SSH/telnet client, on my Blackberry. Help me understand why this is not a good PDA?
And every Fortune 50 company executive. Believe me, I work with a bunch of em and they are all Crackberry addicts.
You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
-- Colonel Adolphus Busch
I just made the jump from a Treo 650 to a Blackberry 8700. I've been a die hard palm user for years, and had one of the first "brick" palm phones (and old Qualcom almost as big as a Newton). I never did like the smaller screen size on the Treos... When the Treos came out, I moved from a Palm V to a Treo 600. I found I stopped using a lot of the "palm" features of the Treo they way I once had. Still, I liked the device. When I made the jump to the 650 (had to have bluetooth!) I was PISSED. So unstable it would crash every time a call came in when I was calling out. It would lock up for no reason and require a hard reset. And the screen was STILL too @$@#$ small. I've had the Blackberry for a day now, and I really like it. The scroll wheel has grown on me. And while I'll never be as lightning fast on the thumbboard as I was with palm graffiti, I can deal with it. I will miss the ability to set a custom ring tone & image for every number in my contact list... And I'll miss the treo "favorites" buttons... Still, at least my Java programs mostly work since I've moved them over (the UIs will need a little tweaking). I doubt I'll go back to Palm. The 700W is just the nail in the coffin for me. I LOATHE WinCE/Pocket PC/Window Mobile/whatever the latest branding is. As a former PPC developer I know up close and personal what a #$@$@# OS it is. Too bad Palm has gotten just as bad. Sigh.
Visto has been in the market for years. It's not a "new Blackberry competitor".
Gosh you guys post things like you were authorities. You only throw bullshit most of the times.
T-mobile should be getting the HTC Wizard in Feb 06. WM5, keyboard, WIFI, the works. Do a search for T-Mobile MDA
I worked at a lawfirm that used Blackberries for everything. You had instant, two-way access to everything that was in Outlook: calendering, contacts, email, attachments (with editing capabilities), the document management system, research and conflict of interest systems, real-time transcription systems, etc. There are so many add on technologies for Blackberry it's not even funny.
OBTW, most of the representitive part of federal government (The House and Senate, mostly) run off these things.
I agree, it isn't worth it if you don't have it plugged into Exchange or Domino.
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
Let us not forget the miracle borne forth from a stainless steel vat, the scrumptious "crunchberry".
Boycott everything - they're all trying to fuck you one way or another
Could you make your phone poll more frequently?
I set my Sony Ericsson T616 to check IMAP mail every five minutes. On a Cingular "unlimited data" plan for $15/month (being unlimited the frequent polls don't matter).
American courts helping a Canadian company?
no way. Goodbye RIM, no matter how invalid NTP's patent scam is.
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
FTFA
Nickname: rjriley5000
Review: RIM's insatiable appetite for others' technology has led to their ill-considered attack on yet another American inventor, with the filing of a declaratory judgment action. Our organization helps connect inventors with those who can defend the inventors rights. PIAUSA believes that if America is to prosper we need to encourage innovators and the small businesses they found. It is important that public policy recognizes that these innovators produce the seeds of the next generation of companies and in many cases whole industries. It is important that we not allow the older and bigger companies to trample those companies. We believe that RIM's starting another patent war on a different front was a serious tactical mistake and that the case may well be just as damaging and costly as the NTP case. Ronald J Riley, President Professional Inventors Alliance www.PIAUSA.org RJR@PIAUSA.org Change "at" to @" RJR Direct # (202) 318-1595
Date reviewed: Dec 15, 2005 1:52 PM
I worked six months as a TechSup Engineer for the largest Exchange hosting company in the US/World and I learned a lot about handhelds and who uses them for what.
We supported ActiveSync, OMA, Good and BES. Not mention IMAP, OWA, etc. By far, the BB/BES piece was the most broken. Now, I left the co. just as BES Server 4.0 SP2 was rolling, so it may be better now, but we got easily 4-to-1 gripes for BB/BES over Good and or Activesync. The most common, but not the only problem? Over and over and over - wireless synchronization with the server would just break.
No, not because we did not know what we were doing, either. The company I worked for was a Microsoft Gold Certified partner and they consulted with us for their development and QA of Exchange Server (especially) as a hosted service. We had great access to information and support at M$.
We would spend hours diagnosing BB h/w, Exchange server, BES Server, wireless networks, etc. Sometimes wiping handhelds, sometimes deleting and recreating accounts on BES (and losing useful message status info), sometime replacing the BB, etc. It was often a mystery as to what went wrong and which of the several things we tried might have actually been the fix. Sometimes, it would just fix itself, if you struggled long enough.
And then there's the cost. Of course, most BB owners seem to be mucky-mucks that aren't paying out of their pockets in the first place. Their BB is paid for by you and me... err, their company/gov't... who gets their money from you and me. If you run your own BES server, there's a very substantial licensing cost. Then there's the "Blackberry Enterprise" mail service that most WSPs hit you for.
Then there is the Treo650. Except for the unconscionably small amount of usuable RAM, it seems to be a great device. More apps, an interface and form factor most people seem to prefer, etc.
The Pocket PCs seemed to be a really strong product too. Especially with expansion slot/card options. Add free ActiveSync built into Exchange Server and no extra charge from your WSP and you're in nice shape.
I don't own any of them, but when I go to buy, it will NOT be a BB.
In Nature, stupidity is a capital offense. In human society, too many get off with less than a warning.
Ah, and then there's the ever so popular "elderberry".
My ex-h6315 had "always on" GPRS, so after a phone call it would reconnect in 3-5 seconds.
It didn't query the server, there was software that sits and waits for an SMS telling it to poll the mail server. T-mobile polled the server every minute (or less) and sent the SMS on new message notice.
Not as nice as BB.
Now, why did Visto do this if the patents are invalid (at least on a preliminary basis per the USPTO)? Was the Visto "IP" not good enough to sue MS without the NTP "IP"? If so, why didn't NTP sue MS?
Somethings smells very fishy.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
Now you too can deal with the horrible USPTO PAIR website.
I've always wondered why sync two mailboxes when we already have standards like IMAP. 1 mailbox that can't possibly get out of sync.
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
If Blackberry's major market was offering non-techie CEOs an easy to use device, I guess it works fine.
That's EXACTLY who the market is, was, and will be. The number of non-techie types out there is astronomical. The market is huge. From CEOs, CFOs, Lawyers, and Politicians to Grandmothers...
Yet as common PC users become power users, I'd guess they'll outgrow the device and want more power and expandability (and customizable user interface)
Uh... WTF!!! Seriously! Most common PC users don't become power users. They don't outgrow the device and want more power and expandibility. They just want simpler, faster, and more reliable. Would you honestly say with a straight face that the transition from DOS to Windows 95 to Windows XP represents "common PC users becoming power users demanding more power and expandability"?
I'd say something more along the lines that it represents a gradual LESSENING of the end users actual required skill set through simpler ui. Sure many actual features have been added... support for pictures, video, 3D, etc... but at the same time the users didn't become more sophisticated or smarter, the machines just got faster and simpler so that the "common pc user" could deal with the new functionality and at the same time, actually know LESS about his device than ever.
Do many users here use their Blackberry and like it? I've been using PDAs since before the original Newton, and this device is just hokey. I feel like I have a trophy wife that looks nice but doesn't actually do anything. What am I missing?
You aren't the target market. And not many on slashdot really are. Talking about the blackberry device here is like trying to sell a minivan into a club full of muscle car enthusiast/mechanics.
The minivan is good car for joe average who just wants to get from point a to b reliably and on time while transporting his 2 kids, dog, and a tent... but it will never thrill a guy who wants to spend his weekends tearing down and rebuilding his engine to eke out another horse or three. Two different worlds. The minivan driver isn't likely to ever become a "power-user" and suddenly want to do custom engine work, and the gearheads are never going to be satisfied driving a vehicle with virtually no outlet to satisfy their urge for aftermarket parts, and performance tweaking.
There is a reason people here say "Yeah, but does it run linux...." when presented with a new gadget, and there is also a reason the average person not on slashdot couldn't care less. Guess which world *you* belong to? :)
As far as expandability goes, the problem probably lies in that earlier models were very much closed. All the recent (including, if I am not mistaken, 7100 you are referring to) are Java-based (and this is the best Java appliance I have seen so far), hence are very much expandable in terms of additional software. There is not too much stuff around (yet), but like with all the good OSS stuff -- you've got an itch, you can now scratch it :)
- life.html...
I would have to agree with you a aon a few other points, though: screen is small and device has limited memory size. Too bad you can't plug an SD or MMC card into it. However, while the screen is smaller, it actually fits in more information than my T5: http://ceesaxp.org/palm/my-48-hours-of-blackberry
--AP
the treo is better
http://www.npcgaming.com Dedicated Gaming Servers
I'll reccomend a Nokia Communicator... 9300i or 9500 depending on your needs. Tti band GSM HSCSD, EDGE, GPRS, WiFi 802.11g WPA, BlueTooth... it is not sexy but it is effective...