In heterogenous environment M$ Office isn't better than OO.o. That seems correct if your primary document type is M$ format, in that case you're doing wrong to OO.o where it can't use it's posibilities.
But in case of company where OO.o format prevails M$ Office is a complete loser. M$ Office practicaly can't open not even one different format at least not so it would be decent. Even simple RTF lost half of it's formating, except if it was saved with M$ Word, but if you look at that RTF you'll see that this isn't RTF anymore but something completely different
It's easier to predict names than functions, if I remember correctly Merced was supposed to be 64-bit RISC at first.
That's what is called marketing without bluff, we will release XZY product, which will have really wonderfull functions. If you see, no mistakes about prediction.
In my other opinion, AMD has take over the CPU market, the only two faults AMDs in the past had (except extreme wish to get at the sun temperature) were.
1. Trying to be Intel compatible on hardware layer, if I understand correctly this is now happening on software microkernel which is on second layer of CPU 2. No full disclosure to their partners, it always seemed like motherboard makers were more uessing than knowing. Opteron on NForce feels a lot different than previous AMDs
And guess what, you probably tried Linux, back in the days of pre1.0 kernels. Yes, I agree, in that times update was a real pain in the ass.
For your information, a lot of time has passed from that time for the rest of the world.
Debian: apt-get update Fedora: yum update or click little red icon that flashes in your left corner Redhat: click little red icon that flashes in your left corner (others can provide info for other distros)
btw. if writing "su -" [pwd] "yum update" is too hard for you,... well just make a launcher "sudo -u root yum update" or if you have sudo disabled for some users "ssh -l root localhost yum update" (btw. select to run in terminal), and from there click, "y", "Enter" "you can go to the pub because work is already finished. Now please can you specify correctly Windows update, how easy it is, with all the clicks and restarts
Let me imagine how many clicks do I need to select Windows updates to the point of installing, and do forget occasional restart
Actualy, you should get a little knowledge your self too, or at least stop reading articles and try the thing in reality.
Displays that were presented were using GGI, GGI interface is supported just as Single monitor displayed internally as one, but that is quite unusable for anything but games and displaying some presentations or movies.
Parent had it right. In multidisplay mode you can't beat X environment.
Few examples where Windows do suck. If you're forced to boot in lower resoltion, all your icons get screwed, same goes for Safe Mode. I won't say that Matrox, ATI or NVidia multi display support suck, it doesn't, what sucks here is underlaying OS, which screws you over and over, major trouble is that it screws over displays. Example, you run a game in 800x600 mode, Windows switches resolution and meanwhile rearanges all your icons. Strange thing is that it rearranges icons on your secondary display which hasn't got anything to do with that resolution change.
Being using multi diplays almost forever (now 8 workstations all equiped with 3x22"Mitsubishi), I did quite a lot of tests and I can say that fully separated multiple screens (not Xinerama) beats everything, the only place where Xinerama is usable is either coding or Gimp (and please don't even think about Photoshop and multiple screens, while Photoshop on Mac has at least support for two screens (but the menu on one screen is another story) just for the lack of MDI, Photoshop on Windows has at best support for 1 and 1/2, MDI on one and toolboxes on the second (yes, Windows on Matrox dual screen where Matrox provides one screen to system and displays picture on two would be better, but then you get all centered dialog boxes right in the middle between screens)).
And before you answer, yes I was actively using Windows and Mac too, for a long time and in a very various configurations too.
Actualy, as you tried to sound funny, it might be even true.
Me, personaly, I was looking from the same angle as the guy who posted this topic. I bought over 170 DVDs and never watched DivX. But after movie companies started to define Linux playing as illegal (actualy I have Windows or three but for the last two years I never booted in (let's say I like my nerves loosed), I even owned 3 G4s but QT and Apple DVD player sucked major for watching movies, and yes I could buy DVD player in that time, but having 10 computers at home is already too much of cables and no movie is good enough to get more of them for that, the only way I could legaly watch DVDs is PS2 but that one I bought last month), I stopped buying DVDs and now I even watch DivX or two (more or less I even feel some kind of satisfaction of retribution), but hell no, I'm not gona buy another DVD after being mistreated in such way.
Music is still something that is completely legal (2000cds) in my domain, but as soon as they would proclaim Linux as illegal, they would suffer same consequences.
As I see it, that kind of pain can be bothersome but sometimes retribution of being bad never felt so good....
I can'tsay about OpenOffice, but for sure I can for Gimp.
I don't know anyone that still uses Gimp 1.2, and Gimp2 is probably one of the most tested pieces of software out there.
I use it flawlesly now for almost half year. Ok, there were flaws but all I could find it is already patched now.
Companies mostly don't test software, at least in OSS comunity. And there is a fact that Mandrake always used experimental kernel patches. So I can't see Mandrake as company as you mentioned
1. Depends on how much the cost of the new solution was, for each situation. Remembering that the initial cost of start up using the project has already been taken into account.
????? WTF are you talking about, where is the cost of starting phproject which I use now instead of a proprietary solution? mysql? openoffice??? freepascal and lazarus???, anjuta and gcc???, Gimp???, Evolution???, Epiphany???. These are all tools that my company depends on
2. Had already too many bad deals, to even start to believe you. I believe in proprietary if company stakes the source, (as MySQL, as Advanced Server, then money is not a problem)
I'll exclude bigger projects to paint you clearer picture...
Most of the companies that produce Accouting software are large enough to get in one bigger car. Guess what,... if that car hits the truck....
well,... you as customer are screwed.
While on the other side, most of OSS softwares are produced with numer of developers that you can stuck on a bike. But if that bike hits a truck and you really depend on that software,... who stops you to hire some programmers to continue work on a paid basis?
company that made my previous accounting software went bankrupt and I left with nothing. btw.
Kylix I bought??? Borland stopped working on it.
RAV antivirus for Linux server I licenced for one year? M$ bought RAV and discontinued Linux products (That was 3 months after signing agreement for one year).
If you want more examples, just ask
And you say I'm idiot to trust open source, face it and look at the mirror, you'll find idiot in there
So I guess it's hard to judge the interface accurately and without bias
Just a little info.
I was intensive user of Photoshop from 2.5 up to 5.5 (in that time I even worked for graphic company). When they completely rearranged menus in 6.0, I just didn't wanted to bother, because Gimp has already overtaken my Photoshop needs. But then again I never needed CMYK (after I left that job) and Photoshop just didn't feel well with multiple monitors (3), for that kind of monitor layout MDI is a real NO GO. I even tried to switch to Apple, because Apple hasn't got MDI, but having menu on one screen was to clumsy and I trashed my Apple&Photoshop high hopes.
But to dump about being unbiased, I still support some DTP companies so I couldn't avoid 7 and CS. And there's nothing better about them either.
After Gimp 2.0 is out, that should be in about a month or so, they will start new version which will have completely different color manipulation, and allowing CMYK and such color models to be edited.
Those 10 people will have to wait for Gimp 2.2,... or it will be 3.0??
I use gimp for a long time way before 1.0 and I've always felt it more comfortable than Photoshop. Yeah, I'm always bitcin about my 3x22" monitors and Phottoshop not being able to use it as I would like.
But Gimp 2.0 was love on the first use. After I tried first preview, I think about 20 preview releases back, I cant stand old Gimp anymore
It's inconsistant in core, try a little search for files on drive and you'll see what I mean
piss poor selection of admin applications (who in the world set up NetInfo),
heh, it doesn't support my apps, and if it would I would simply forbid that for my next reason. And besides who in the world has the time to install X11, fink, compile, solve dependancies, compile, solve...
and you sign contract with even more greedy devil than M$.
Why? Apple gave nothing to people. Examples: 1. Quicktime streaming server that is open sourced has the license that made me just forget about it when I got trough 1/4. It's purely beneficial license that covers unsuccessful (at least unsold) product for future sqeezing of poor bastards that signed this license. 2. Darwin,...:) be serious it runs on Mac and very old and very exclusive (I don't mean good, I mean hard to find) x86 hardware. By the way it sucks 3. Did Apple at least opensourced Carbon?? 4. Or Cocoa?? 5. Or at least Appletalk?? Quartz, maybe?? Hell, face the reality, Apple hasn't opensourced not even stickies. Poor Darwin and few patches to Konqueror is all that Apple ever give.
Anti-Americanism? No, Bush is not the majority of Americans, so I guess they're just people like the other. But you show great deal of Americanism.
Successful company? Yeah, right. Take but not give, and then squeeze even more. If that's the way you like it...
As a guy who sold all of my Macs (had 4 and 1 powerbook (part of my job was Mac support), now I only have one G3 running yellowdog), I can say I'm happy.
And don't think that I haven't tried to use OSX. Common, I'm a sysadmin administering few companies and about 50 servers, I'm not unemployed, I don't have time to tweak my box to be usable for my work. Installing X11, installing Fink, compiling, searching for missing libraries, compiling, searching...
The common fact that Linux works nothing like OSX is main reason that I use it.
And believe me, Gnome is nothing like OSX. Main problem of OSX is when people like me start to use it. I always have 3x19" or 3x22" monitors, just to fit my windows. And just think about it, menu bar is on one monitor only, what a distance traveller this OSX mouse is (at least in my case). Also there is no support for separated screens, on Linux I just set Xinerama off and voila! Every monitor it's main menu and main panels with separated Window task list and it's own virtual screens.
Basically, my setup it's just as it would be as if I would use three different computers, but with one keyboard, one mouse and one storage.
Yep, and when I tried it, it was booting for almost a year. (I tried it after first Slashdot post about Windows PE)
And for what, almost none of drivers worked (running VGA mode, without any king of my 1GBit network, not seing SATA..., even my camera didn't work, well if someone asks, I don't use it too much so I se the waste space like my USB drive for necessary little things), I got one ughly button with mostly empty menus, running File browser was much faster, took only two minutes. Btw, did I mention that I throw it away because of questionable legality, like embeding proprietary software like antivirus, at least in usable version.
2 points 1. Who has time to use such slow solution? I haven't 2. Very, very far away of knoppix
Agreed, but you forget one thing about size. Source code has very good compression ration. Almost every time ratio is 10:1 or more which would mean 1-5 GB, and considering Fedora dvd image i'm downloading right now 3.7GB, well nothing special about the size.
Fedora has corporate backing from Redhat. You really should read sometimes before you post. Sad news for you is that this is known fact ever since Fedora started.
Yes, your comment about package manager was true, but only if this comment was posted 2 years ago.
Default RPM managers Mandrake urpmi Fedora yum, (and I think fc2 should have apt-get too)
Sorry, Mandrake is blowing against the wind (urpmi is not and will never be standard). Try setting yum repository once in life and you'll love it.
Howto: 1.start apache 2.if you're too lazy to create alias, just copy RPMs under/var/www/html 3.in directory where you copied RPMS run yum-arch 4.add your yum repository in/etc/yum.conf
How do you do that with urpmi to be network usable??? Personally I need yum repositories for updating my servers. I always disable standard updates on my servers and set my repository as default. Updates that find their way there are always tested before applied in that case.
Slashdot Mirror
Opteron is still cheaper and faster
No it's not correct.
In heterogenous environment M$ Office isn't better than OO.o. That seems correct if your primary document type is M$ format, in that case you're doing wrong to OO.o where it can't use it's posibilities.
But in case of company where OO.o format prevails M$ Office is a complete loser. M$ Office practicaly can't open not even one different format at least not so it would be decent. Even simple RTF lost half of it's formating, except if it was saved with M$ Word, but if you look at that RTF you'll see that this isn't RTF anymore but something completely different
(FICTIVE STORY)
Well actually this happened:
First engineer: Look, a new processor
Second engineer: Hey, it's a male
Bypassing Portuguese: ??? Nocona?
It's easier to predict names than functions, if I remember correctly Merced was supposed to be 64-bit RISC at first.
That's what is called marketing without bluff, we will release XZY product, which will have really wonderfull functions. If you see, no mistakes about prediction.
In my other opinion, AMD has take over the CPU market, the only two faults AMDs in the past had (except extreme wish to get at the sun temperature) were.
1. Trying to be Intel compatible on hardware layer, if I understand correctly this is now happening on software microkernel which is on second layer of CPU
2. No full disclosure to their partners, it always seemed like motherboard makers were more uessing than knowing. Opteron on NForce feels a lot different than previous AMDs
And guess what, you probably tried Linux, back in the days of pre1.0 kernels. Yes, I agree, in that times update was a real pain in the ass.
For your information, a lot of time has passed from that time for the rest of the world.
Debian: apt-get update
Fedora: yum update or click little red icon that flashes in your left corner
Redhat: click little red icon that flashes in your left corner
(others can provide info for other distros)
btw. if writing "su -" [pwd] "yum update" is too hard for you,... well just make a launcher "sudo -u root yum update" or if you have sudo disabled for some users "ssh -l root localhost yum update" (btw. select to run in terminal), and from there click, "y", "Enter" "you can go to the pub because work is already finished. Now please can you specify correctly Windows update, how easy it is, with all the clicks and restarts
Let me imagine how many clicks do I need to select Windows updates to the point of installing, and do forget occasional restart
Actualy, you should get a little knowledge your self too, or at least stop reading articles and try the thing in reality.
Displays that were presented were using GGI, GGI interface is supported just as Single monitor displayed internally as one, but that is quite unusable for anything but games and displaying some presentations or movies.
Parent had it right. In multidisplay mode you can't beat X environment.
Few examples where Windows do suck. If you're forced to boot in lower resoltion, all your icons get screwed, same goes for Safe Mode. I won't say that Matrox, ATI or NVidia multi display support suck, it doesn't, what sucks here is underlaying OS, which screws you over and over, major trouble is that it screws over displays. Example, you run a game in 800x600 mode, Windows switches resolution and meanwhile rearanges all your icons. Strange thing is that it rearranges icons on your secondary display which hasn't got anything to do with that resolution change.
Being using multi diplays almost forever (now 8 workstations all equiped with 3x22"Mitsubishi), I did quite a lot of tests and I can say that fully separated multiple screens (not Xinerama) beats everything, the only place where Xinerama is usable is either coding or Gimp (and please don't even think about Photoshop and multiple screens, while Photoshop on Mac has at least support for two screens (but the menu on one screen is another story) just for the lack of MDI, Photoshop on Windows has at best support for 1 and 1/2, MDI on one and toolboxes on the second (yes, Windows on Matrox dual screen where Matrox provides one screen to system and displays picture on two would be better, but then you get all centered dialog boxes right in the middle between screens)).
And before you answer, yes I was actively using Windows and Mac too, for a long time and in a very various configurations too.
Actualy, as you tried to sound funny, it might be even true.
Me, personaly, I was looking from the same angle as the guy who posted this topic. I bought over 170 DVDs and never watched DivX. But after movie companies started to define Linux playing as illegal (actualy I have Windows or three but for the last two years I never booted in (let's say I like my nerves loosed), I even owned 3 G4s but QT and Apple DVD player sucked major for watching movies, and yes I could buy DVD player in that time, but having 10 computers at home is already too much of cables and no movie is good enough to get more of them for that, the only way I could legaly watch DVDs is PS2 but that one I bought last month), I stopped buying DVDs and now I even watch DivX or two (more or less I even feel some kind of satisfaction of retribution), but hell no, I'm not gona buy another DVD after being mistreated in such way.
Music is still something that is completely legal (2000cds) in my domain, but as soon as they would proclaim Linux as illegal, they would suffer same consequences.
As I see it, that kind of pain can be bothersome but sometimes retribution of being bad never felt so good....
I can'tsay about OpenOffice, but for sure I can for Gimp.
I don't know anyone that still uses Gimp 1.2, and Gimp2 is probably one of the most tested pieces of software out there.
I use it flawlesly now for almost half year. Ok, there were flaws but all I could find it is already patched now.
Companies mostly don't test software, at least in OSS comunity. And there is a fact that Mandrake always used experimental kernel patches. So I can't see Mandrake as company as you mentioned
And yet, it's still less than 640, which billg set as limit long time ago. :)
???
Ohh, yeah, that were KB
....KKK?????
But they did, they already partnered with M$ in the same investment,... talking about two flies...
Sorry, no karma here:)
1. Depends on how much the cost of the new solution was, for each situation. Remembering that the initial cost of start up using the project has already been taken into account.
????? WTF are you talking about, where is the cost of starting phproject which I use now instead of a proprietary solution? mysql? openoffice??? freepascal and lazarus???, anjuta and gcc???, Gimp???, Evolution???, Epiphany???. These are all tools that my company depends on
2. Had already too many bad deals, to even start to believe you. I believe in proprietary if company stakes the source, (as MySQL, as Advanced Server, then money is not a problem)
Yeah, probably right (looking from the company side), but you did forget two things (on users side).
1. How much was the cost of OSS dissapointment and how much closed.
2. What were the ways out of the mess when project died.
I'll exclude bigger projects to paint you clearer picture...
Most of the companies that produce Accouting software are large enough to get in one bigger car. Guess what,... if that car hits the truck....
well,... you as customer are screwed.
While on the other side, most of OSS softwares are produced with numer of developers that you can stuck on a bike. But if that bike hits a truck and you really depend on that software,... who stops you to hire some programmers to continue work on a paid basis?
company that made my previous accounting software went bankrupt and I left with nothing. btw.
Kylix I bought??? Borland stopped working on it.
RAV antivirus for Linux server I licenced for one year? M$ bought RAV and discontinued Linux products (That was 3 months after signing agreement for one year).
If you want more examples, just ask
And you say I'm idiot to trust open source, face it and look at the mirror, you'll find idiot in there
So I guess it's hard to judge the interface accurately and without bias
Just a little info.
I was intensive user of Photoshop from 2.5 up to 5.5 (in that time I even worked for graphic company). When they completely rearranged menus in 6.0, I just didn't wanted to bother, because Gimp has already overtaken my Photoshop needs. But then again I never needed CMYK (after I left that job) and Photoshop just didn't feel well with multiple monitors (3), for that kind of monitor layout MDI is a real NO GO. I even tried to switch to Apple, because Apple hasn't got MDI, but having menu on one screen was to clumsy and I trashed my Apple&Photoshop high hopes.
But to dump about being unbiased, I still support some DTP companies so I couldn't avoid 7 and CS. And there's nothing better about them either.
Just as parent noted, but if you still aren't satisfied you can try
Script-Fu -- Selection -- Split An Image If you want to slice it too matrix.
btw. it has Image Map too for slicing web hotspots that produces HTML output for them
After Gimp 2.0 is out, that should be in about a month or so, they will start new version which will have completely different color manipulation, and allowing CMYK and such color models to be edited.
Those 10 people will have to wait for Gimp 2.2,... or it will be 3.0??
It already has, and always had, you just needed to have right devel packages, otherwise configure failed
Actualy it is.
I use gimp for a long time way before 1.0 and I've always felt it more comfortable than Photoshop. Yeah, I'm always bitcin about my 3x22" monitors and Phottoshop not being able to use it as I would like.
But Gimp 2.0 was love on the first use. After I tried first preview, I think about 20 preview releases back, I cant stand old Gimp anymore
You should stop looking and try to use it.
Feel of new Gimp GUI is completely different than the old one
As for me personaly, I just hate OS X.
:) be serious it runs on Mac and very old and very exclusive (I don't mean good, I mean hard to find) x86 hardware. By the way it sucks
It's inconsistant in core, try a little search for files on drive and you'll see what I mean
piss poor selection of admin applications (who in the world set up NetInfo),
heh, it doesn't support my apps, and if it would I would simply forbid that for my next reason. And besides who in the world has the time to install X11, fink, compile, solve dependancies, compile, solve...
and you sign contract with even more greedy devil than M$.
Why? Apple gave nothing to people.
Examples:
1. Quicktime streaming server that is open sourced has the license that made me just forget about it when I got trough 1/4. It's purely beneficial license that covers unsuccessful (at least unsold) product for future sqeezing of poor bastards that signed this license.
2. Darwin,...
3. Did Apple at least opensourced Carbon??
4. Or Cocoa??
5. Or at least Appletalk?? Quartz, maybe?? Hell, face the reality, Apple hasn't opensourced not even stickies. Poor Darwin and few patches to Konqueror is all that Apple ever give.
Anti-Americanism? No, Bush is not the majority of Americans, so I guess they're just people like the other. But you show great deal of Americanism.
Successful company? Yeah, right. Take but not give, and then squeeze even more. If that's the way you like it...
As a guy who sold all of my Macs (had 4 and 1 powerbook (part of my job was Mac support), now I only have one G3 running yellowdog), I can say I'm happy.
And don't think that I haven't tried to use OSX. Common, I'm a sysadmin administering few companies and about 50 servers, I'm not unemployed, I don't have time to tweak my box to be usable for my work. Installing X11, installing Fink, compiling, searching for missing libraries, compiling, searching...
The common fact that Linux works nothing like OSX is main reason that I use it.
And believe me, Gnome is nothing like OSX. Main problem of OSX is when people like me start to use it. I always have 3x19" or 3x22" monitors, just to fit my windows. And just think about it, menu bar is on one monitor only, what a distance traveller this OSX mouse is (at least in my case). Also there is no support for separated screens, on Linux I just set Xinerama off and voila! Every monitor it's main menu and main panels with separated Window task list and it's own virtual screens.
Basically, my setup it's just as it would be as if I would use three different computers, but with one keyboard, one mouse and one storage.
But then again some people seem happy with OSX.
Yep, and when I tried it, it was booting for almost a year. (I tried it after first Slashdot post about Windows PE)
And for what, almost none of drivers worked (running VGA mode, without any king of my 1GBit network, not seing SATA..., even my camera didn't work, well if someone asks, I don't use it too much so I se the waste space like my USB drive for necessary little things), I got one ughly button with mostly empty menus, running File browser was much faster, took only two minutes. Btw, did I mention that I throw it away because of questionable legality, like embeding proprietary software like antivirus, at least in usable version.
2 points
1. Who has time to use such slow solution? I haven't
2. Very, very far away of knoppix
Damn, I just invented COMPRESSION RATION by mistake, can I patent that???:) If I don't SCO might sue me.
Agreed, but you forget one thing about size. Source code has very good compression ration. Almost every time ratio is 10:1 or more which would mean 1-5 GB, and considering Fedora dvd image i'm downloading right now 3.7GB, well nothing special about the size.
Fedora has corporate backing from Redhat. You really should read sometimes before you post. Sad news for you is that this is known fact ever since Fedora started.
/var/www/html /etc/yum.conf
Yes, your comment about package manager was true, but only if this comment was posted 2 years ago.
Default RPM managers
Mandrake
urpmi
Fedora
yum, (and I think fc2 should have apt-get too)
Sorry, Mandrake is blowing against the wind (urpmi is not and will never be standard). Try setting yum repository once in life and you'll love it.
Howto:
1.start apache
2.if you're too lazy to create alias, just copy RPMs under
3.in directory where you copied RPMS run yum-arch
4.add your yum repository in
How do you do that with urpmi to be network usable??? Personally I need yum repositories for updating my servers. I always disable standard updates on my servers and set my repository as default. Updates that find their way there are always tested before applied in that case.