Keep in mind that the PS2 consists of a whole bunch of processors. I'm in no way a PS2 expert, but I believe there's the main processor, the vector unit, one for sound (?), and maybe one or two hidden somewhere else.
They're probably adding up all the processors. The NV30 is supposed to be floating point all the way through the pipeline. You'd have to assume PS3 would be floating as well if it wasn't already. However, the 1TFLOP number still sounds like a whole bunch of poop.
This has been done for years in third-world countries for a long time. Particularily in India. It's nice to see industrialized countries following suit. Especially since we don't have an endless supply of gas (pun intended).
That's the killer. nVidia got to a programmable pipeline just before ATI and now they've gotten to 0.13 micron just before ATI. ATI is a half-step ahead of nVidia at this point. But as the article implies, nVidia has paid the overhead cost of improving their production. And that puts them in better shape for the future.
Personally, buying an ATI is not even debateable until they put out Linux drivers. We'll see if the rumoured move to a unified driver architecture is true. So by my scorecard, ATI takes this round 10-9, but nVidia still leads by two rounds. (Judging by a 10-point must system, no standing 8-count, the fighter can't be saved by the bell in any round)
It's a table. Which means it'll be faster than a list. That's all you have to worry about.
What's that about a little bit of knowledge and it being dangerous. In school you'll beat every algorithm under the sun to death. In the real world you'll link to the STL and use a hash map.
Write well-designed, clean, maintainable code. Then profile it. If your table lookup blips on the profiler, then *THINK* about optimizing it. After you've *THOUGHT* about optimizing it, then decide if it makes sense to squeeze the time and effort into the schedule.
Random quotes:
Premature optimization is the root of all evil. -- Knuth
There is never a best solution, only tradeoffs to consider. --Eberly
The best optimizer is between your ears. --Abrash
The Ferrai's are only gravy, honest! --Carmack
Alright I threw the last one in for shits and giggles. Don't blame me, I can't get through a Sunday night without drinking a poop load of beer. Anyway, the point is that there is a difference between *FAST* and *FAST ENOUGH*. If it's fast enough, who cares.
[CYNICISM]
Unless you're an academic and you're looking for funding.
While the first 32-bit processor came out in 1995, the average PC used 1 MB of memory, so 4 GB was both unaffordable and generally not needed. But the recent advent of Windows XP and digital media has changed all of that.
Sheesh. Can you say "been there, done that"? What was Apple's slogan? Windows95=Mac8x. How about Windows02=Linux9x. (I don't know the exact dates that Apple used in their ad, or when Linux was 64bit)
But I hate it when the media falsely portrays, MS as being this great,innovative company. I know I'm sounding like a stereotypical/. poster, but that attitude just gives me a nasty rash on my left testicle.
This isn't a criticism of MS. This is a criticism of mass media. They have the responsibility to provide correct information to the consumer. Sure Windows is used by 90-something percent of home users, but this is a chicken and egg problem. Are consumers uninformed because mass media does not provide the whole story, or does mass media not provide the whole story since consumers are uninformed?
That is one thing i have to disagree with the article. MSDN is quite good. And if you are using MFC, then you are using VC++. That means help is usually just an F1 click away.
Exactly what isn't compliant with IPv6 in the current (2.4) kernel? I'm currently using stock unpatched 2.4 to run a web server over IPv6 quite happily. It's the applications that are lacking support. Hell, with radvd it's functioning as a full 6-to-4 router for my home network.
Here's a little info . Doesn't go into specifics. Follow the links and you end up here .
They key is the "my home network" part. The router for an autonomous system would probably require full support. I'm running RH7.3 (kernel v2.4.18) and i don't see kame dancing.
Render to bitmap will probably be slower than render to screen. That might change the output of his program. My GF3 has a S-Video out. That's probably the best way to go.
if you are easily offended. But this is some of the funniest sh1t that I've seen in a while.
http://www.unamerican.com/catalog/index.htm
The "Linux is the Shit" bumper sticker should be a slashdot favorite. Other favorites include "fuck yeah I'm weird", "carpe genitalia", "God mastrubates", "sex with you would suck", "unfuckwithable", "why are my kids so stupid?", or my personal favorite, "talk nerdy to me".
Don't expect Cg to be picked up by the movie industry. Renderman is a much more general shading language and everybody is already used to it.
On the desktop/video game side, it doesn't seem like it has a great chance to survive. OpenGL2.0 is a much more general language. With Doom3 having an OpenGL2.0 rendering pipeline, it makes Cg a little less ubiqutous as well. There will be tons of games that will be built on top of the Doom3 engine just like there was on top of the Quake engines.
Cg also needs the other IHVs, such as ATI, Matrox and 3DLabs, to write back ends for the Cg compiler. That's probably not gonna happen.
ATI is behind in nVidia in driver development and it doesn't look like they have the manpower to devote to a Cg back end. Plus there are rumours that they are following nVidia and moving to a United Driver Architecture. (Hopefully this means good Linux drivers from ATI). I don't see ATI having the manpower to undertake both projects.
3DLabs is pretty devoted to OpenGL2.0. They need this to survive as a company. Their cards are used quite often on *nix workstations. They can't afford to have OpenGL die.
And Matrox...who really cares about Matrox. They haven't done sh1t in a while. Sure they had the dual head cards, but now you can get dual head cards from other IHVs. And they still haven't put out a card with a programable pipeline.
So, all I can see for Cg at the is that it will replace NVParse. It is kinda nice to write one shader and then translate it to D3D and OpenGL. Cg is a good short term fix, but not a good long term vision. OpenGL1.0 was forward thinking and it turned out to be a good, stable API for 10 years, unlike some other APIs, *cough*D3D*cough*. Hopefully, OpenGL2.0 will have the same staying power.
From reading various bits of info on the web, there seem to be four different code paths. An nVidia codepath, an ATI codepath, a default codepath, and now the OpenGL2.0 codepath.
So Matrox and 3DLabs pretty much have to put out OpenGL2.0 drivers to run Doom3 or they can implement nVidia/ATI OpenGL1.3 extensions. But the interesting case is the nVidia codepath.
The Geforce3/4 has 4 texture units. The Radeon8500 has 6 texture units. You would have to assume that the next line of nVidia cards would have more texture units. To take advantage of the extra texture units, it would seem that nVidia would have to write OpenGL2.0 drivers. This is definitely a good thing.
people with black and white tv's can watch a color broadcast
And NTSC and PAL are an evil ugly hack because of the backward compatibility. The signal has to be split up into intensity and colour information. B&W tv uses the intensity values, while a colour tv would use both.
If the engineers didn't have to worry about backward compatibility, we could allocate more bandwidth to represent more colours. And we wouldn't be stuck with crap ass effective resolution of 350x350.
The above was all hypothetical. I was just putting together the cheapest crap I possibly could. Personally, I already have a Athlon1.3GHz. And I'll think about getting a Radeon when ATI thinks about making drivers for Linux. (Yes there are open source drivers and yes they do suck ass. ATI is following nVidia and heading towards a unified driver architecture. That should hopefully improve Linux drivers) And I'd probably get a Geforce3 since they're prices are dropping like a mofo.
But I digress. My point was, "Playing games is expensive". And as a result, as a poster mentioned, there is the dilema of: a)get FFXI for PC or b)get PS2 AND FFXI for PS2. With the recent price drops of consoles, the PS2 & FFXI combo is looking attractive.
Looking up this info at my friendly neighbourhood computer store. NB. Prices are in CDN$
Win98: $150
Celeron 1GHz: $110
128MB RAM: $35
Geforce2MX:$70
Maxtor 20GB: $100
FFXI: $70 (probably)
Total: $535 CDN (about $300US)
It's hard to find P3s and Geforces anymore.
And most of the stuff people will probably already have from before. And it assumes you already have a mobo, monitor, etc, etc.
Well, what's the point of the above calculation. Procrastination mostly, I have a final exam tomorrow. Secondly, I have everything except for the video card. Being a poor ass student, I want to know what it will actually cost me to play FFXI.
So I'm thinking, do I want to upgrade now or upgrade when Doom3 comes out (which won't be out for another year at least). In a perfect world, I would upgrade now and in a year (Not to mention a few times in between).
Goes to show that the major reason to upgrade is usually when that new game comes out. And for some people, when the next version of Windoze is released. Personally, I'm still dual booting with Win98 and only boot out of Linux to play games. So logically the next question is: Any word on native Linux support or (blech) Winex support?
The official community site is at cgshaders.org. There's a Linux Toolkit out now. There's a interview with CEO David Kirk. Along with articles, a shader repository, and forums for help.
Even though M$ is doing to well with their X-Box, video game makers are doing great. They have three new consoles to develop for. They Geforce3's are also becoming mass market. That means developers can pull off tricks with the progamable pixel pipeline that they couldn't do with the fixed function pipeline.
is it just me or is Id and john carmack dangerously close to becoming the george lucas of the game industry? I find myself incapable of getting excited about DOOM 3.
WTF are you talking about? Have you even seen the movie from E3? Pixel-shaded bumpmapping *drool*. Every object casts a shadow *drool*. Trent Reznor doing the music *drool*. Realistic physics *drool*. Real-time 5.1 mixing *drool*.
Now excuse me while I use my Phantom Menace DVD to wipe the slobber off my computer.
Slashdot Mirror
They're probably adding up all the processors. The NV30 is supposed to be floating point all the way through the pipeline. You'd have to assume PS3 would be floating as well if it wasn't already. However, the 1TFLOP number still sounds like a whole bunch of poop.
This has been done for years in third-world countries for a long time. Particularily in India. It's nice to see industrialized countries following suit. Especially since we don't have an endless supply of gas (pun intended).
Personally, buying an ATI is not even debateable until they put out Linux drivers. We'll see if the rumoured move to a unified driver architecture is true. So by my scorecard, ATI takes this round 10-9, but nVidia still leads by two rounds. (Judging by a 10-point must system, no standing 8-count, the fighter can't be saved by the bell in any round)
What's that about a little bit of knowledge and it being dangerous. In school you'll beat every algorithm under the sun to death. In the real world you'll link to the STL and use a hash map.
Write well-designed, clean, maintainable code. Then profile it. If your table lookup blips on the profiler, then *THINK* about optimizing it. After you've *THOUGHT* about optimizing it, then decide if it makes sense to squeeze the time and effort into the schedule.
Random quotes:
Premature optimization is the root of all evil. -- Knuth
There is never a best solution, only tradeoffs to consider. --Eberly
The best optimizer is between your ears. --Abrash
The Ferrai's are only gravy, honest! --Carmack
Alright I threw the last one in for shits and giggles. Don't blame me, I can't get through a Sunday night without drinking a poop load of beer. Anyway, the point is that there is a difference between *FAST* and *FAST ENOUGH*. If it's fast enough, who cares.
[CYNICISM]
Unless you're an academic and you're looking for funding.
[/CYNICISM]
[cue Dr. Evil laugh]
Muwahahahahaha...hahahaha...hahahah!!! Muwahahahahaha...hahahaha...hahahah!!! Muwa.......haha?
[/cue Dr. Evil laugh]
The C++ Programming Language. Bjarne Stroustup
Computer Graphics: Principles & Practice. Foley, Van Dam, et al
Modern Operating Systems. Tanenbaum
Compilers. Aho, Sethi, Ullman
Artificial Intelligence. Russell, Norvig
Introduction to Algorithms. Cormen, Leiserson, Rivest.
Design Patterns. Gamma
Code Complete. McConnell
TCP/IP. Comer
Why wouldn't it? I have RH7.3 and it runs perfectly. Even better than the windoze client.
Sheesh. Can you say "been there, done that"? What was Apple's slogan? Windows95=Mac8x. How about Windows02=Linux9x. (I don't know the exact dates that Apple used in their ad, or when Linux was 64bit)
But I hate it when the media falsely portrays, MS as being this great,innovative company. I know I'm sounding like a stereotypical /. poster, but that attitude just gives me a nasty rash on my left testicle.
This isn't a criticism of MS. This is a criticism of mass media. They have the responsibility to provide correct information to the consumer. Sure Windows is used by 90-something percent of home users, but this is a chicken and egg problem. Are consumers uninformed because mass media does not provide the whole story, or does mass media not provide the whole story since consumers are uninformed?
That is one thing i have to disagree with the article. MSDN is quite good. And if you are using MFC, then you are using VC++. That means help is usually just an F1 click away.
Here's a little info . Doesn't go into specifics. Follow the links and you end up here .
They key is the "my home network" part. The router for an autonomous system would probably require full support. I'm running RH7.3 (kernel v2.4.18) and i don't see kame dancing.
Render to bitmap will probably be slower than render to screen. That might change the output of his program. My GF3 has a S-Video out. That's probably the best way to go.
http://www.unamerican.com/catalog/index.htm
The "Linux is the Shit" bumper sticker should be a slashdot favorite. Other favorites include "fuck yeah I'm weird", "carpe genitalia", "God mastrubates", "sex with you would suck", "unfuckwithable", "why are my kids so stupid?", or my personal favorite, "talk nerdy to me".
On the desktop/video game side, it doesn't seem like it has a great chance to survive. OpenGL2.0 is a much more general language. With Doom3 having an OpenGL2.0 rendering pipeline, it makes Cg a little less ubiqutous as well. There will be tons of games that will be built on top of the Doom3 engine just like there was on top of the Quake engines.
Cg also needs the other IHVs, such as ATI, Matrox and 3DLabs, to write back ends for the Cg compiler. That's probably not gonna happen.
ATI is behind in nVidia in driver development and it doesn't look like they have the manpower to devote to a Cg back end. Plus there are rumours that they are following nVidia and moving to a United Driver Architecture. (Hopefully this means good Linux drivers from ATI). I don't see ATI having the manpower to undertake both projects.
3DLabs is pretty devoted to OpenGL2.0. They need this to survive as a company. Their cards are used quite often on *nix workstations. They can't afford to have OpenGL die.
And Matrox...who really cares about Matrox. They haven't done sh1t in a while. Sure they had the dual head cards, but now you can get dual head cards from other IHVs. And they still haven't put out a card with a programable pipeline.
So, all I can see for Cg at the is that it will replace NVParse. It is kinda nice to write one shader and then translate it to D3D and OpenGL. Cg is a good short term fix, but not a good long term vision. OpenGL1.0 was forward thinking and it turned out to be a good, stable API for 10 years, unlike some other APIs, *cough*D3D*cough*. Hopefully, OpenGL2.0 will have the same staying power.
From reading various bits of info on the web, there seem to be four different code paths. An nVidia codepath, an ATI codepath, a default codepath, and now the OpenGL2.0 codepath.
So Matrox and 3DLabs pretty much have to put out OpenGL2.0 drivers to run Doom3 or they can implement nVidia/ATI OpenGL1.3 extensions. But the interesting case is the nVidia codepath.
The Geforce3/4 has 4 texture units. The Radeon8500 has 6 texture units. You would have to assume that the next line of nVidia cards would have more texture units. To take advantage of the extra texture units, it would seem that nVidia would have to write OpenGL2.0 drivers. This is definitely a good thing.
You can also finger his email account if you are so inclined. (But you spammers will have to figure it out the address for yourselves.)
To summarize:
not as fast as a GF4 or Radeon
AA is nice, but not fast enough
10 bit color is nice, but not nice enough
drivers suck...at the moment
And NTSC and PAL are an evil ugly hack because of the backward compatibility. The signal has to be split up into intensity and colour information. B&W tv uses the intensity values, while a colour tv would use both.
If the engineers didn't have to worry about backward compatibility, we could allocate more bandwidth to represent more colours. And we wouldn't be stuck with crap ass effective resolution of 350x350.
But I digress. My point was, "Playing games is expensive". And as a result, as a poster mentioned, there is the dilema of: a)get FFXI for PC or b)get PS2 AND FFXI for PS2. With the recent price drops of consoles, the PS2 & FFXI combo is looking attractive.
Win98: $150
Celeron 1GHz: $110
128MB RAM: $35
Geforce2MX:$70
Maxtor 20GB: $100
FFXI: $70 (probably)
Total: $535 CDN (about $300US)
It's hard to find P3s and Geforces anymore. And most of the stuff people will probably already have from before. And it assumes you already have a mobo, monitor, etc, etc.
Well, what's the point of the above calculation. Procrastination mostly, I have a final exam tomorrow. Secondly, I have everything except for the video card. Being a poor ass student, I want to know what it will actually cost me to play FFXI.
So I'm thinking, do I want to upgrade now or upgrade when Doom3 comes out (which won't be out for another year at least). In a perfect world, I would upgrade now and in a year (Not to mention a few times in between).
Goes to show that the major reason to upgrade is usually when that new game comes out. And for some people, when the next version of Windoze is released. Personally, I'm still dual booting with Win98 and only boot out of Linux to play games. So logically the next question is: Any word on native Linux support or (blech) Winex support?
The official community site is at cgshaders.org. There's a Linux Toolkit out now. There's a interview with CEO David Kirk. Along with articles, a shader repository, and forums for help.
Even though M$ is doing to well with their X-Box, video game makers are doing great. They have three new consoles to develop for. They Geforce3's are also becoming mass market. That means developers can pull off tricks with the progamable pixel pipeline that they couldn't do with the fixed function pipeline.
Or an act of law. There's a patch coming up from MS that removes IE. Probably pressured by their anti-trust case.
actually, that was www.cgshaders.org. Yes, I am a dumbass.
Their website is at www.cgshaders.com. Their is a coding contest, some articles, and forums to ask questions.
Dude! I think you need to keep your ogre in your pants when posting on slashdot.
WTF are you talking about? Have you even seen the movie from E3? Pixel-shaded bumpmapping *drool*. Every object casts a shadow *drool*. Trent Reznor doing the music *drool*. Realistic physics *drool*. Real-time 5.1 mixing *drool*.
Now excuse me while I use my Phantom Menace DVD to wipe the slobber off my computer.