"Any solution that involves paying for something that used to be "free" is not going to catch on."
Sure. I`d rather look at spam as being the `price` i have to pay for email, rather than pay an actual, real price just to save me from having to delete a few spam emails, which I can generally do without opening them. A sensible filter policy goes a long way.
"I'd be unhappy if someone was getting news stories off my site, charging for them and not giving me credit. Because I'm going to all the hard work and not recieving any credit."
Your happiness is irrelevant. What's important is whether or not it's legal. Seems like it's fair game to me. If sites want to stop this, they should force the user into a contract which obliges them to keep it to themselves. No contract, no deal.
It's also anything but good. Frankly, if you`re older than about 22, then you`ll have outgrown his `look at my sulky, pouty face` bullshit.
Musically, he stinks. If you`re dipping your toes into foreign music and you`re from a rock background, you`re better off checking out stuff by Killing Joke front-man Jaz Coleman and Anne Dudley, or Peter Gabriel.
"I listen to 20th century classical music, mostly. Same deal."
A lot of people recommend www.mdt.co.uk for cheap disks from the UK to the rest of the world. I'm in the UK and use it as my first point of call - nearly always cheaper than high-street shops, and usually much cheaper. Even paying postage to the States seems to be worthwhile.
You`re missing the point - it's not about countries any more; its about business. US jobs mean nothing if a US company would make more money having their Peruvian/English/Pakistan companies produce it instead.
"Umm... why don't you do the math? If everyone has 1000 character email addresses, there is no point in generating email addresses with anything less than 1000 characters, so you really aren't solving the problem are you?"
Well, i`ve done the math. 36^1000 is very, very big.
I'm suggesting that people use 1000 char email addresses, not up to 1000 char.
And as i`ve tried to make clear, the ratio of in-use email addresses to unused ones, in a 1000 char range, is very bad for spammers, if they are just guessing. Ok, heres a cut-down example.
Imagine there are 1000 valid email addresses, using numbers (to make it clearer). And we are using 30 digit addresses. So the range of possible numbers is:
etc. Do you see the problem (for the spammers, if they are relying on randomly generating email addresses and testing them)? 10^30 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 combinations. That just 30 digits. And i`m suggesting 1000 chars, and using A-Z as well. Still think your fast email program can cope? Still think you`ll be lucky enough to get more than 0.0000001% of the valid email addresses out there?
Sure, this doesn't solve the problem of harvesting - just generating. But it'd make storing harvested addresses harder.
ps. i broke up those number because of the lame lameness filter at Slashdot!
"I'm still not understanding why you think most addresses would be misses rather than hits."
Do the maths! Take a 1000 character email address. Even allowing just A-Z and 0-9, thats 36 possible combinations per character. What is 36*36*36....*36 (1000 times)? Lets say that there are 6,000,000,000 people on the planet and they all have 50 email addresses. The number of valid addresses would be infinitesimal. You`d have to generate billions of emails a second to hope to get even a fraction of the users.
"out that's where a lot of spammers get their addresses"
So use a fake email address! Duh! It goes against netiquette to ask for replies to be emailed to you anyway, and if you really need to give out your address, obfuscate it. (You really should have a filter on your email program which rejects all emails NOT containing a word/phrase of your choice anyway - at least, on the addresses you give out publicly.)
"CD's that were poorly manufactured and so have been cracking whilst in the drive etc. EA charge 7.50 UKP to replace each disc and as there are two that's an additional 15 UKP for the game on top of retail price."
Are people paying? Wow! This totally contravenes the 1976 Sale Of Goods Act - section 15 "Must be of merchantable quality". This is a design fault.You get a free replacement or your money back. There's nothing the developers, producers, distributors, manufacturers or retailers can do to stop you. That's a statury right.
Someone needs to sue them in the small claims court for this, if what you say is true.
The ASA has no teeth. It's a self-regulatory body. If a member breaches it, they`ll be `told off` by the ASA, but there are no mandatory fines, and spammers will NOT ever be members of the - this is not a law.
"Then you go to aa, ab, ac, bb, bc, bd, and you work up until you have however many letters you want to limit it to"
I'm suggesting 1000 character email addresses. Why not get out a calculator and work out how many possible combinations there are. You might need a pretty good calculator. And that is per ISP. Most email addresses will be unused. And anyone sending that much spam would be quickly noticed.
How about if people had 256 character email addresses? Or 512 bytes? Or 1k? You wouldn't care, as you`d be using your address book. A spammer can use a dictionary to create email addresses and spam them, and be sure a lot exist. But not this way - chances are it would be a non-existant one.
Thousands or millions of customers? That's it? That's the problem? You can't keep a local copy of all the ISPs on the white list and check email addresses off it? You can't make an email take a few seconds longer to turn up, with the benefit of no more spam, ever?
Slashdot Mirror
Whats wrong with just sticking a USB2 port on the devices and using USB Flash Drives? Works for me.
>So get an eMac or an iMac
And get rid of the huge clump of bank-notes under your desk while you`re at it!
Error #10242: .Sig line too long and has been trunc
Jan LA van de Snepscheut. It's one of my favourites! :)
"Any solution that involves paying for something that used to be "free" is not going to catch on."
Sure. I`d rather look at spam as being the `price` i have to pay for email, rather than pay an actual, real price just to save me from having to delete a few spam emails, which I can generally do without opening them. A sensible filter policy goes a long way.
"I'd be unhappy if someone was getting news stories off my site, charging for them and not giving me credit. Because I'm going to all the hard work and not recieving any credit."
Your happiness is irrelevant. What's important is whether or not it's legal. Seems like it's fair game to me. If sites want to stop this, they should force the user into a contract which obliges them to keep it to themselves. No contract, no deal.
It's also anything but good. Frankly, if you`re older than about 22, then you`ll have outgrown his `look at my sulky, pouty face` bullshit.
Musically, he stinks. If you`re dipping your toes into foreign music and you`re from a rock background, you`re better off checking out stuff by Killing Joke front-man Jaz Coleman and Anne Dudley, or Peter Gabriel.
Peter Murphy indeed!! Bwa ha ha ha haaaaa!
"I listen to 20th century classical music, mostly. Same deal."
A lot of people recommend www.mdt.co.uk for cheap disks from the UK to the rest of the world. I'm in the UK and use it as my first point of call - nearly always cheaper than high-street shops, and usually much cheaper. Even paying postage to the States seems to be worthwhile.
"And of course, you can fly to your country of choice and buy cds at a store"
Yeah, thanks for that.
You`re missing the point - it's not about countries any more; its about business. US jobs mean nothing if a US company would make more money having their Peruvian/English/Pakistan companies produce it instead.
or they are running out of money, and need some more.
"Hey...that data sounds just like a....Higgs Boson!"
"Caught". We don't know, and you (the poster of the story) certainly don't.
It's heart-warming to see such trust in the authorities and the media.
>Happy Saint Patrick's day!
Put your glasses on. That's a 1, not a 7!
"Umm... why don't you do the math? If everyone has 1000 character email addresses, there is no point in generating email addresses with anything less than 1000 characters, so you really aren't solving the problem are you?"
Well, i`ve done the math. 36^1000 is very, very big.
I'm suggesting that people use 1000 char email addresses, not up to 1000 char.
And as i`ve tried to make clear, the ratio of in-use email addresses to unused ones, in a 1000 char range, is very bad for spammers, if they are just guessing. Ok, heres a cut-down example.
Imagine there are 1000 valid email addresses, using numbers (to make it clearer). And we are using 30 digit addresses. So the range of possible numbers is:
000000000 00000000000 0000000000 -> 99999 9999999999999 99999 9999999
And the range of in-use addresses is
000 0000000 0000000 0000000000000 -> 00000 000000000000000 0000001000
Now, imagine those 1000 addresses were randomly distributed throughout the range. So you had the following email addresses:
1023912 04235720594 853075498345
5307549 834529473956 39723621653
39563972 36216532903935 72373934
111111122 24444444983 8357353534
etc. Do you see the problem (for the spammers, if they are relying on randomly generating email addresses and testing them)? 10^30 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 combinations. That just 30 digits. And i`m suggesting 1000 chars, and using A-Z as well. Still think your fast email program can cope? Still think you`ll be lucky enough to get more than 0.0000001% of the valid email addresses out there?
Sure, this doesn't solve the problem of harvesting - just generating. But it'd make storing harvested addresses harder.
ps. i broke up those number because of the lame lameness filter at Slashdot!
They're by far the strongest. Best bang-per-buck. Once, I was up for 2 days straight.
"I'm still not understanding why you think most addresses would be misses rather than hits."
Do the maths! Take a 1000 character email address. Even allowing just A-Z and 0-9, thats 36 possible combinations per character. What is 36*36*36....*36 (1000 times)?
Lets say that there are 6,000,000,000 people on the planet and they all have 50 email addresses. The number of valid addresses would be infinitesimal. You`d have to generate billions of emails a second to hope to get even a fraction of the users.
"out that's where a lot of spammers get their addresses"
So use a fake email address! Duh! It goes against netiquette to ask for replies to be emailed to you anyway, and if you really need to give out your address, obfuscate it. (You really should have a filter on your email program which rejects all emails NOT containing a word/phrase of your choice anyway - at least, on the addresses you give out publicly.)
"CD's that were poorly manufactured and so have been cracking whilst in the drive etc. EA charge 7.50 UKP to replace each disc and as there are two that's an additional 15 UKP for the game on top of retail price."
Are people paying? Wow! This totally contravenes the 1976 Sale Of Goods Act - section 15 "Must be of merchantable quality". This is a design fault.You get a free replacement or your money back. There's nothing the developers, producers, distributors, manufacturers or retailers can do to stop you. That's a statury right.
Someone needs to sue them in the small claims court for this, if what you say is true.
"Right now there is federal regulation on radio frequencies...why is this any different than light?"
May I see your license for that torch please? No? Then i'm arresting you for pirate transmission.
"If that setup gets shut down, you move on to the next isp"
Yes, but if most addresses are misses, rather than hits, because of the sheer number of possibilities, then you would't get very far.
"What about those of us who don't use address books very much"
I'm not suggesting it would be illegal to use old style, human rememberable email addresses...although ISPs may choose to not carry them.
"This allows me to contact people no matter where I am"
USB key memory thing? Knock up an online database? I dunno..I think its worth it to lose spam.
"I don't have a problem with spam"
Lucky you. It really pisses a lot of people off!
"I am careful about what email address I use when I fill out a form"
I guess you`re not on many mailing lists, not post to usenet, nor post your email address publicly then I take it.
"they're planning to enforce this how?"
The ASA has no teeth. It's a self-regulatory body. If a member breaches it, they`ll be `told off` by the ASA, but there are no mandatory fines, and spammers will NOT ever be members of the - this is not a law.
Nothing to see here.
"Then you go to aa, ab, ac, bb, bc, bd, and you work up until you have however many letters you want to limit it to"
I'm suggesting 1000 character email addresses. Why not get out a calculator and work out how many possible combinations there are. You might need a pretty good calculator. And that is per ISP. Most email addresses will be unused. And anyone sending that much spam would be quickly noticed.
How about if people had 256 character email addresses? Or 512 bytes? Or 1k? You wouldn't care, as you`d be using your address book. A spammer can use a dictionary to create email addresses and spam them, and be sure a lot exist. But not this way - chances are it would be a non-existant one.
Thousands or millions of customers? That's it? That's the problem? You can't keep a local copy of all the ISPs on the white list and check email addresses off it? You can't make an email take a few seconds longer to turn up, with the benefit of no more spam, ever?
Why?
This is the next step in the Isreal-Palestine struggle:
a m. facts/
http://asia.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/02/16/qass
www.qassam.home-page.org/