Slashdot Mirror
Echelon Used to Capture Terrorist
An anonymous reader writes "Echelon was used to track and capture Khalid Sheikh Mohammed." Ahh, bitter sweet victories. The article kind of explains what Echelon is, and pretty much says that those disposable phones really don't have much security at all.
Gotta love the capture of this a$$hole, but damn do I hate the govt's ability to pull such things.
Pimpin' all the Karma Hoes!
I wasn't even aware that it was acknowledged as existing by most countries, and now the UK is talking about it openly?
I'm still undecided about good vs. evil on Echelon.
If these guys were not such hypocrites, they would never be caught. The Taliban, etc want to take things back to the glory days of the pre-1000 A.D. Muslim empire, except when it is inconvenient (such as using technology like cell phones). If they were more pure in their ideology and kept with the sticks and clubs and swords, they'd be much harder to catch, wouldn't they?
Did you know that they can track the location of a mobile phone even if it is turned off, as long as there is some charge left in the battery?
I just read "Killing Pablo", about the hunt for Pablo Escobar, which says that Pablo stopped using his mobile phone because he knew it could be tracked. The book mentions how it was possible to turn it on at night when Pablo was asleep, so it's location could be tracked.
So if you find your mobile suddenly turning itself on in the middle of the night, it's time to get paranoid...
To me, if they were tracking him, that tells that they knew where he was. So, why didn't they just use the tracking from Echelon to capture Mohammed, instead of paying out 27 million to someone else also?
To quote Bill Maher:
Khalid Sheikh Sheikh Sheikh, Sheikh Sheikh Sheikh, Sheikh Mohammed!
Ah am not a crook! (\(-__-)/)
WE GOT ONE!
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Something tells me that the al-Qaeda informant had something to do with this as well. The article raises several interesting question about the arrest. Who actually was in charge?
Also, what is the point (for the government) in releasing information about the capabilities of Echelon and how effectively it is being used? The net effect is to make the terrorists (and drug dealers, per the article) more circumspect. Is this a good thing? Or was that the aim of the disclosure in the first place?
Floating face-down in a river of regret...and thoughts of you...
This guy is a fair and legitimate target for electronic surveilance. He's a know leader of a network of individuals who are dedicated to causing harm to untold millions of people whose biggest crime is living in a country whose ideals he disagrees with. If Echelon is used fairly and honestly in these types of situations, then I will not complain one bit about the extraordinary secrecy of its network.
-Shadow
Looks like mr Mohammed wasn't wearing his tinfoil hat...
We can argue abou the wisdom of echelon, using it, or even writing articles in the papers about it... (Something I think is really not in our national best interest.) All I know is if I hear one word from the ACLU about this guy's civil liberties or privacy being violated, I'm going to start hoping they turn into cactus fertilizer.
I had a sucky sig.
Considering This and This, He may already be dead.
I find the entire thing suspect personally.
You say you want a revolution....
$25M and a legal visa... terrorism seems to pay well.
that someone made out with $25 million dollars for the tip.
I guess the US saves money in the long run, but it kind of sickens me that in a sense, the US taxpayer is paying some guy for opening his mouth.
Just because it on the internet doesn't make it so.
Just because a government spokesman says it doesn't make it so.
If your mother tells you that the stork brought you, it doesn't make it so.
Always remain skeptical and ask yourself why they want everyone to have this information.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
It seems it was a tip-off, not Echelon, that ultimately led to Mohammed's capture. Read the article, and you'll see that some lucky Al-Quayda grunt turned coat and pocketed a cool $25 million dollars.
It's in the US's interests to hype Echelon ("Woooo! We can seeeeeee you!") rather than admit they really got their man through good old fashioned bribery and traitors. Sure, Exchelon helped once they KNEW THE GUY'S STREET ADDRESS. But it was pretty much useless until they were told where to look.
Still, good catch. Here's hoping there's another footsoldier of god out there who'll take $25mil in small bills in exchange for Osama's current location.
Is mom's paranoia warrented? lol She thinks the government is after her ... maybe I should have a doctor visit ... or would he be part of a conspircy aswell ... oh dear.
I've left to find myself. If you happen to see me, please, keep me there until I return.
Talk about a great job.
101 fun ways to use your propane torch . . .
Something I've always wondered...
Quite a few years ago, there was a spate of embarrassing phone calls by members of the Royal family that found there way into the press. The phone calls were "acidentally" overhead and taped by amateur radio enthusiasts. There was reported evidence that the phone calls had actually been played repeatedly near the homes of these amateur radio enthusiasts - presumably as a way of leaking the calls without it being traceable back to the leakers.
What has never been explained (or at least I've never come across any explanation in the mainstream press) is who did or might have done this, and why.
In a similar vein, it was never explained how Colin Powell had a transcript of Bin Laden's last taped message, before the al-Jazeera station even had the tape. To me that means either:
1) It was a fabrication or
2) They know where Bin Laden is.
People, we live in a new world. The same technology that allows us to expose the dirty laundry inside of corrupt organizations can also be used to expose and dirty laundry in your hamper.
The rules of the game have changed. You can no longer sit back and wonder if someone can see what you are doing, good or bad. They either can observe your actions directly, or they can retrieve the records to reconstruct the event. Political parties now have databases of everything someone has said in public, and can quickly cross reference even the most obscure quote. Sportscaster have massive databases of player statistics and can call up on a whim every dropped ball or missed catch.
What begs the question in my mind, is what are the rules of courtesy? When do you draw the line between what can be retrieved and what should be retreived. Too many people assume that just because you can do something you are compelled to do it. That is a fallicy that was first recognized by the greeks.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
If they "had been tracking him for some time", I wonder why they waiting so long to do anything. I suspect that the human intelligence had more to do with it than the alleged use of Echelon. The last person I would believe is some anonymous, talking-head Echelon apologist. I think there is some FUD involved. Exactly how do you provide oversight over a project like Echelon? I think that the system is probably used more to spy on people whose whereabouts are known than to track down some people in some sort of Hollywood "Bourne Identity" drama. If Echelon was designed to be a lost-and-found device that actually found Mohammed, I think you would hear a lot more chest-thumping from the intelligence community. The rest of the article is the real story. The NSA/CIA/EIEIO paid off some guy who sold his boss down the river.
After not having read the article and only reading the headline, I have to ask... How long before this gets turned against good, law abiding Linux and BSD users? We all know that Microsoft has no problems jumping in bed with the liberals (Ahem, Clinton!) and the conservatives (Ahem, Cheney!) as long as they are allowed to continue buying up the free world. So, how much of a stretch is it to imagine the big "Dick" sidling up to MS and playing smoochies with Bill Gates saying... "we'll crush Linux with new laws about terra-ism and using Echelon and put United States V 2.0 (R) Microsoft at the top of the world!!!" ??? Not much of stretch at all, is it? It seems horrible to me that we have tyrants like Gates, Cheney (Bush isn't running anything, he's just cowering like the scared little boy that he is) running the US government and business right now. Hopefully, someday after some common sense prevails, we'll look back at these dark days as an abomination to all that is good and pure (Open source, Linux, Socialism, protecting the environment, etc...). Until then, we have to defend ourselves. It is our RIGHT as human beings to have free software in both senses of the word! It is NOT the right of any company or government to tell you that you CAN'T have what you need to live and frankly these days having a computer and being able to hack is pretty much a necessity for the average geek. Not according to the article, there are big plans afoot to use Echelon in conjunction with Microsoft's DRM and "Trusted Computing" paradigms to cripple open source software. The government is in on this as well as Microsoft. A lot of this has to do with one simple fact that most people are not aware of... and remember, you heard it here first:
Last Fall, Microsoft purchased the US government. They've continued to let things appear to be pretty normal, but they are slowly replacing a lot of the politicians who took them to task during the anti-trust trials with MS marketing staff. If you don't believe me, go look at your new federal income tax forms. They are plastered with ads for MS Windows software for electronic filing. Think this is just a little thing? Well think again... WHY aren't they giving equal time to the open source alternatives for filing taxes? BECAUSE M$ owns the US government. Mark my words, Bill Gates IS the antichrist. He will be taking over during the next presidential election and then you will find out about how you are going to have to pay MS licensing to work in the US, to own property in the US, and to live in the US. The EULAs will specify that anyone with socialist leanings will be watched carefully. at the first sign of alternative OS usage, people will be shot.
(Clip)
We interrupt this tirade to tell you that everything you read up above is patently false. Microsoft is good for the US economy, good for your computer and good for you.
Thanks,
The Management
"If you say a lie often enough it becomes truth"... I've never seen nor heard any solid evidence that Echelon exists. But the press has been using the word "echelon" as a common denominator for all intelligence involving electronic surveilance.
Now, I'm not denying it's existence (nor am I trying to start a discussion wether it does or not), I'm just saying that journalists should be more careful when they chose their words.
Growing up in SE UK we lived near part of the echelon system. In hampshire, near Alton I seem to recall there were these giant "golfballs".
Hell, we knew what they were all about back then. Well, kind of.
We just knew that they were part of a listening system that tapped into phonecalls.
I used to imagine men in black turning up for work every day in right hand drive cadillacs and listening to english housewives talk about the weather
Hey, it's early and I've only had three cups of joe so I'm probably talking out of my hinder, but what are the odds that the marketing of these disposable phones was proposed by law enforcement as a ruse to bait terrorists and criminals into using a very easily monitored private network for all of their communications?
Ok, blowhole deobstructed, commence down-modding.
(sips coffee)
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
While this one instance may be a good thing (at least the results appear to be), what else is Echelon being used for???
...we are from the government - we are here to help...
"Caught". We don't know, and you (the poster of the story) certainly don't.
It's heart-warming to see such trust in the authorities and the media.
Growing up in SE UK we lived near part of the echelon system. In hampshire, near Alton I recall there were these giant "golfballs".
Hell, we knew what they were all about back then. Well, kind of.
We just knew that they were part of a listening system that tapped into phonecalls.
As a child, I used to imagine men in black turning up for work every day in right hand drive cadillacs and listening to english housewives talk about the weather
But they were very impressive looking golfballs
This is for all the blockheaded, blinded-by-stallmans-ignorance, pseudointellectuals that live in Mom's basement:
Echelon did exactly what it was designed to do - catch criminals.
Don't flatter yourselves thinking that the US govt would waste one second of it's time monitoring your calls to the phone sex line or your visits to nakedgeekgrrls.com. Honestly, why would anyone here even begin to think they would use such a powerful tool to find you? Must be a guilty conscience or paranoid delusions of the DMCA police taking your little MP3 collection. They could find you in a heartbeat if they wanted to, WITHOUT using Echelon. Here's a tip for ya - if the feds want you, they'll find you by tax records, credit records, driver's license/registration, etc etc. Now I know you eggheads watched the X-Files (and thought it was a reality show)...they found everyone they wanted without using anything like Echelon.
Catching that crusty, hairy ape was fan-fucking-tastic - one more asshole responsible for the deaths of 3000 of my fellow Americans. If you have a problem with the methods used to capture these boils on the collective asshole of the human race, then I have a serious problem with you. I watched 2 mighty buildings in the greatest city in the world collapse, killing thousands of my countrymen. I won't tolerate any jackass spouting shit about the methods used to capture those fuckheads. Get off the linux/free/communist/socialist ideology and use your goddamn head for once - those responsible need to found, pumped for intelligence, then shot. By ANY means necessary - find them.
mod parent UP ^^^^^^
Khalid Cheik Mohammed's nickname on MSN Messenger was Romantic_Terrorist
...then why haven't they caught the person or persons responsible for sending the anthrax-laden letters shortly after the terrorist attacks?
I wonder if Echelon is just a fake like the research for nuclear powered air fighters during and after WWII? The supposed research back then spent a huge amount of money over the course of about four years and came up empty handed. Later on, it was revealed that this was just a convenient way for some companies to funnel money out of the government and into private hands. No research ever actually took place, just a lot of cheap show and blow to satisfy a few of the curious.
Un-news
(Use the Preview Button! Check those URLs! Don't forget the http://!)
Suppose the Al Qaida rat isn't really a rat: Suppose Al Qaida was running low on funds, and they asked themselves, "How can we get a quick infusion of $25 Million in Venture Capital?"
Who's gonna watch this guy for the next 40 odd years to make sure that the $25 Million doesn't make its way back to Osama himself?
Given what little we now know about Echelon's capabilities, how could you avoid identification and triangulation? Encrypted phones only help so much. They disguise your voice and the content, but they narrow down the monitoring pool, since only so many people in the world will have or use encrypted wireless phones. Echelon can simply triangulate ALL of the encrypted calls and narrow the search to the most likely targets. Using multiple anonymous wireless phones clearly doesn't help; the subject of this article was caught despite their use. Should the you leave the phones connected all the time, and fill the air time with idle chatter? Should you use wireless voice-over-ip in an anonymous setting, such as an Internet cafe? How can you initiate a real time voice conversation with who you want, when you want, without revealing your own identity, location, or conversation content? If I understand the implications of this article, the solution does not involve wireless phones.
Sometimes I worry that I'll develop Alzheimer's disease, but no one will notice.
Wrap it in aluminum foil every nite.
I see this post was buried like this one because it didn't tow the linux ideology line. Here it is again in case anyone missed it:
Echelon did exactly what it was designed to do - catch criminals.
Don't flatter yourselves thinking that the US govt would waste one second of it's time monitoring your calls to the phone sex line or your visits to nakedgeekgrrls.com. Honestly, why would anyone here even begin to think they would use such a powerful tool to find you? Must be a guilty conscience or paranoid delusions of the DMCA police taking your little MP3 collection. They could find you in a heartbeat if they wanted to, WITHOUT using Echelon. Here's a tip for ya - if the feds want you, they'll find you by tax records, credit records, driver's license/registration, etc etc. Now I know you eggheads watched the X-Files (and thought it was a reality show)...they found everyone they wanted without using anything like Echelon.
Catching that crusty, hairy ape was fan-fucking-tastic - one more asshole responsible for the deaths of 3000 of my fellow Americans. If you have a problem with the methods used to capture these boils on the collective asshole of the human race, then I have a serious problem with you. I watched 2 mighty buildings in the greatest city in the world collapse, killing thousands of my countrymen. I won't tolerate any jackass spouting shit about the methods used to capture those fuckheads. Get off the linux/free/communist/socialist ideology and use your goddamn head for once - those responsible need to found, pumped for intelligence, then shot. By ANY means necessary - find them.
...any tool can be a weapon, if you just hold it right.
Don't forget this story. I think that the terrorists have won.
It seems that a lot of people are saying that it's good that the terrorist was caught, but that the goverment should be able to spy like that on us? Shouldn't the government be able to spy on terrorists? If you have dealings with a terrorist (either on purpose or by mistake) you can get caught by a LOT of other means, and then you'll have a bunch of things to explain.
Some weeks ago, the store that my parents own was robbed. They put a gun to my father and mother. They even put a gun to my 4 year old sister. Luckily no one was hurt. They also stole my father's cell phone, and even answered when we called. Do you think that I would be happy to be "tracked" by my phone's location, just so those assholes could have been caught? I sure will.
please excuse my apathy
I thought that Pakistan "found" him by looking at the address on the paycheck they sent him every month?
The only question I have about the whole thing is why Pakistan betrayed this fellow now.
Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
for the rest of us that your government is so thorougly corrupt at all levels.
It's no big secret.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
Godless phonIE payper liesense stock markup whoredoggIE ?pr? scam, on the NYT.
P al dk40F.52691@.f28e61a/7325
& oe =UTF-8&q=microsoft+%22bill+weisgerber%22&btnG=Goog le+Search
& oe =UTF-8&q=microsoft+dirty+deals&btnG=Google+Sea rch
...
http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?14@103.0QQ
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8
only took 4 years. nothing to it. thanks kate.
lookout bullow. run for your options, should you have any, but keep an eye out for whois couNTing on you.
tha daze of the ill eagle bad toll are almost over.
nothing but gnu skies,
more details at trustworthycomputing.com
...what, you mean like using it to leak commercial information to your nation's companies for commercial gain? already happened! ask the french! http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/sisaus.htm
If these guys were not such hypocrites, they would never be caught. The Taliban, etc want to take things back to the glory days of the pre-1000 A.D. Muslim empire, except when it is inconvenient (such as using technology like cell phones). If they were more pure in their ideology and kept with the sticks and clubs and swords, they'd be much harder to catch, wouldn't they?
On the other hand, we ale no less hypocritical. If we would stick strictly to our principles of human rights, democracy, presumed innocence, open society etc., they would never be caught neither. So they use credit card and mobile phones, right? Big deal. We use torture during interrogation. I guess this makes us even.
Where does the illuminati fit into all this?
If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
... but I don't think it's too good at intercepting thoughts. Chances are the anthrax guy was acting alone and has never said anything about it over the phone!
Sean
Sounds like an old fashioned bribe did the trick and not an overprized government toilet project. Funny, how the media plays right into their greedy, warmongering little hands: [Paraphrasing CNN] "Millions rallied in major cities throughout the world to protest the upcoming war; and in breaking news, fifty war supporters rallied in [insert nondescript American small-town] and dumped French wine down sewer."
I am a virus, put me in your
Isn't it time to get dirty and fire up the good old spy tricks again? I refuse to belive that the US can fight terrorism for very long by sniffing conunications. Either they will start using heavy crypto (or simply throw out a huge string of random characters, and look at 42, if it happens to be 13, it's time to go ahead) or use code words that won't mean dingy shit to the US super spy computers.
This can't be the way to go forward, and I am not especially impressed by the modus operandi of letting terrorist go free AND pay them, just because they rat on the next in line. By the account all but Usama and Saddam could get out of this both rich and clean...
I guess that you can pick up the signal amplified by the base station, but you can probably get the base station position by simpler means than satellite triangulation.
I doubt he was using a disposable phone -- probably it was a Swisscom prepaid SIM. Swisscom SIMs can be purchased without ID and unlike many other prepaids can be used to make international calls. That by itself is not unusual, but using such a SIM in Pakistan probably got the attention of the American government.
For those who don't know what SIMs are -- they are consumer-inserted subscriber ID cards found in all GSM phones (normal cell phones outside the US).
Dr. Egon Spengler: Print is dead
Given the article I'm starting to think taking up caligraphy to embellish my penmanship and becoming an MD to completely obfuscate my writing might actually have some value.
Hire me as a public encryptor and then hire another caligraphic MD as the decryptor.
Quantum encryption? HAH!
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
It was the Patriot Act that enabled authorities to use foreign intelligence...something to think about.
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
Sure, if we just listen to EVERYONE's conversations we'll find soemthing interesting.
We pay these people money? and let them operate heavy computing machinery? did they get their pubes yet?
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
what is it doing nowadays?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Would the government be ready to sacrifice an innocent life just to say it have arrested, Ossame or any other major terrorist mastermind? Well, it makes me shiver because I belive that yes is the answer...
Colosse.
Pakistani news and the Asia Times. Wow, you really did your homework, didn't you?
Weapon of Mass Eavesdropping. Everything you want during high school is dangerous!
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
3. Al Jazeera TV, owned by the QATARI GOVERNMENT (A HUGE ALLY OR THE US), turned over a copy of the tape before releasing it to the public.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
This 'foot soldier' who got paid 18 M£ just solved the international terrorist business plan:
1- be a terrorist
2- ?
3- cash in
So 2- was not
2- terrorize the world and risk to dye as a martyr
but
2- tip the CIA
Simple enought. He didn't even have to share the cash with his fellow.
Sneak teach kids Algebra using a game
And my wife said that I watched Alias just for the Jennifer Garner eye-candy. Now I can say it's to keep up on current events!
It seems everyone is trying to take credit for his capture. The pakistani intel is saying they did found him, state department says they found him. My guess is echelon like everyone else is putting it this out there to justify their existance and thus continued funding. We have transformed ourselves into a society of surveillance...
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin
And one big problem with using encryption out where everyone can SEE that you're using encryption, is that it's like waving a red flag and yelling "I'M UP TO SOMETHING!"
And the only solution to this (except workarounds like stenganography) is to make the use of encryption as widespread as possible.
I will probably start encrypting all my personal email soon (yes I'm slow, I know...) even though I don't have much to hide, and I encourage everyone else to do this.
As for business mail, when you think about it, wouldn't you rather have your business email encrypted and signed if you ever go to court over some contract dispute?
Makes it a lot easier to prove who said what when you submit the email archive as evidence.
Not to mention not having your business conversations easily intercepted.
You wouldn't send your companies bid for a contract or internal memo on a postcard would you? But unencrypted email is fine? Why?
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
Man, first I hear about Bush saying that "Another Organization may have to step in if the U.N. does not" and now I read about Echelon being used to capture someone... Does Deus Ex come to anyone elses mind? or was that just because i got through playing it :)
------
"And may your days be long upon the earth."
Unless he goes to Burnley, Oldham, Blackburn...
Either way, he'll stick out like a sore thumb - hope my taxes don't get spent on security for the fucker.
In my place of work, we use encryption on all email,
because we use proprietary information. One of the
best ways to avoid spam is to discard all emails that
are not encrypted with your key. Since I've worked
here, I've been happily spam free for over a year.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
The "Previous Winners" on "The Running Man".
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Racist!
The potential for abuse of echelon is still great and that's what, IMO, makes echelon dangerous.
It's not too hard to imagine a world where unrestricted police authority would result in the capture of more criminals.
Do we want to live in this world? (Or, "Do we want to admit we are becoming this world?") Why not?
It's significant that the supporters of such totalitarian policies have now become this bold. The conversation goes something like this:
"Privacy breeds terrorism. You should give up privacy."
"If you advocate privacy, you're advocating terrorism."
"You're hiding something, therefore you must be guilty. Of terrorism."
"You are an enemy combatant."
"No, you may not speak to a lawyer; you could send messages to your terrorist friends."
"No, we will not tell your family where you are. Then your terrorist friends will know we have you, figure out how we caught you, and plug their security hole."
"Mommy, why didn't daddy come home?" "Shh, dear. He was "disappeared" by the secret police. We can't talk about him anymore or they will take us, too."
But that would never happen here. Hooray Echelon.
Those who would trade freedom for... (you know the rest).
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
We have evidence that he continues to persue his weapons programs.
We have evidence of terrorist training camps within Iraqi borders.
If Al-Qaeda and Hussien aren't buddies, we can say at a minimum, they are fellow travellers.
The peaceniks out there continue to utter the mantra, "Why must we act now? Why the hurry? Why not extend the dealine?"
Here's an answer that they seem to have missed.
The reason to deal with Hussein now, rather than later, can be found on the Korean peninsula.
North Korea, left to their own devices, now has the bomb. They can now show their ass with impunity, because there's nothing we can do about it.
We can no longer field an Army in Korea. They can nuke it, or they can nuke their neighbors, neither of which we would find acceptable. Too high a cost, game over.
North Korea now has a seat at the table, and we simply have to put up with their shit. It's not going to be pleasant for us, South Korea, Japan, or any other nation in the Asian sphere.
Hussein does not yet have the bomb. If we continue to wait, that will surely change, and when it does, it's too late. No stability ever again in the middle east. No security for Israel. No certainly in the world economy. Just some untouchable, unpredictable asshole, issuing demands that must be complied with in some fashion, because the world will no longer have a choice in the matter.
I don't like the fact that my country intervenes in the affairs of other sovereign nations. I don't like that the actions of my government put me, and my fellow citizens at risk both home and abroad. I don't like the fact that the world is starting to view the US as a loose cannon.
That said, we sometimes have to take a more pragmatic view of things. If nobody will stand with us, and do the things that we all agree must eventually be done, so be it. Sometimes you have to stand alone.
The situation in Iraq will not go away by itself. Further delay can only result in a far more serious problem down the road.
We can pay now, or pay later, with interest, and when that time comes, the cost will be far more substantial.
Um, no. Not by any means necessary.
Although I admit it would be very interesting if it could be determined exactly who issued the stand-down order to the intercept fighters. And why.
There will be no due process here. He will never appear on US soil specifically to avoid these inconveniences. The bit I am suspicious of is .. is this really Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ? It's not like there hasnt been massive pressure on the US government to prove to people that they havent taken their eye off the ball. Gee, what good timing that arrest was. They may well have caught this guy, he may well be a terrorist, but after the last few months, it is asking a bit much to accept anything on trust.
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
This particular alleged terrorist confessed/bragged about his activities to a documentary maker, and the tape has been shown on al-Jazeera. If he isn't guilty, he's gone out of his way to look guilty.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
I used to put my cell next to my monitor at work. When my phone would ring, I'd see a slight flickering of the monitor (which would actually start a second before the phone rang).
But what weirded me out was that every so often -- at least every 2 hours, if not more frequently -- the monitor would flicker in the same way, but the phone wouldn't ring. My phone display showed that I was in an area with strong cell coverage, so it wasn't a call that was being dropped. It was some kind of communication between the phone and the network that was not a call.
I assume that most cell phones "check in" with their networks periodically to see if there is new voice mail, etc. But who knows? Increasingly, our technology contains features we can't control, don't know the various uses of, and may not even know about at all.
Many people on /. like to suggest that they have a right to anything broadcast into their homes. If a cell-phone user broadcasts a message that I or any govt. is in a legal physical place to intercept, does that mean the same rule applies, i.e. he broadcast on open airwaves, so what's the problem, according to /. logic? Or is there a distinction when a company broadcasts vs. an individual. Or is there a disctinction between when an individual receives a transmission, as opposed to a govt. agency? What are others thoughts?
Vote for Pedro
Great.
I don't care if Echelon is useful, works, or can feed the ducks at a range of 2000 yards, if those running it are unwilling to be honest, but eager to cash in on free publicity. A tool can never be safer or more dangerous than the person it is in the hands of, and I am never more wary when those hands are very very good at media slight-of-hand.
The agencies involved may well be trustworthy, but they have a lousy way of showing it, IMHO. They may have good intents, they may well even be good at protecting those nations they are intended to protect. That's not the point, here. Stage magicians can show you an empty hat and then pull a rabbit out of it. I don't expect the same from a Government agency. This is not going to be good for anybody's confidence, and rightly so.
Please note that I'm not arguing for or against Echelon here, for or against national secrets, etc, or any of that stuff. All I am saying is that smoke and mirrors should NEVER be taken as a sign of sincerety, no matter WHAT the outcome, and that PR stunts are DEFINITELY NOT a sign of trustability. This is definitely a Code Red Skepticism Alert, whether Echelon exists or not.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Meow meow The President meow meow meow France meow meow oil meow meow meow nuclear bomb meow meow flatten meow meow Thurdsay.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Terrorists will communicate by other means - most especially face to face or personal courier - or they will be caught!
Internet surveillance, using Echelon, Carnivore or back doors in encryption - is for monitoring the public.
Well, I think the result is a net positive, but of course I have to be anxious that the authorities in control of the Echelon technology do not use it for means that bring about general unhappiness. [ie., imagine any authoritariam regime given that power...]
In the long run, though, I'm saddened that the image of the U.S. (which is increasing battered on the international stage, sometimes correctly, sometimes not), is further tarnished because we are becoming known for invading the privacy of citizens of the world, while ostensibly respecting the 4th Amendment for our own citizens (though with the Patriot Act and the proposed DSEA, that will soon become history).
The United States bolsters the case of those who hate it. The minute "democracy" and a "Bill of Rights" is introduced into a postwar Iraq, the people will spit on their newly found rights, listen to local demogogues, mullahs or others, and vote into a power a new strongman.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
at first i thought they were talking about the warez group "Echelon". I thought that maybe they were trying to get on someone's good side. And after all those Dreamcast games, it might be a good idea.
Quite correct on all counts. The solution, obviously, is to open source the phone. They've got Linux on PDAs, why not your cell phone too?
Dyolf Knip
And now, since Mutual Assured Destruction is not that mutual anymore, madness is back. Farewell Irak, Iran, Siria, Lebanon. North Korea? mmm i don't know. They might have a couple of nukes, and since American government just doesn't mess with someone who can strike back...
I don't have a sig.
I've never tortured, or even interrogated anyone. Apparently, you have?
Some time ago, I read the most insightful, forward thinking article I've yet seen on the ramifications of advances in technology and their effect on privacy.
It's still up, (after all these years!) The Transparent Society, originally written in Dec 1996.
I can't recommend this strongly enough...
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
--9-11 is quite an involved subject. There's no way to address it in a simple post other than on a very basic level. This is what I have gathered so far. It's random and off the top of my head, has some data and opinions mixed.
most of al queda are cannon fodder, ie, "useful idiots". Quite literally goat herders.
The intel services have interacted , made use of, trained and supported with materiel and cash al queda and affiliated groups on an on-going basis for a long time
illegal drugs are a tremendous motivation for illegal activity--reference, history of the KLA and support for same with again, domestic intel groups (factions within, the compartmentalisation I referenced). KLA and al-queda are vitually indistinguisable in members.
9-11 was known about in advance. Trial runs of this technique were conducted in the phillipines, and again, all this was known to the intel community, well in advance of 9-11
It is undeniable that oil resources are now, along with water resources, the top sought after commodity, nothing else comes close, even uranium or gold doesn't approach it
"The hunt for terrorists" has always been here. the deal is, and this is more than verifiable, that lower level federal police in various agencies had extremely good intel on these groups. time after time, once the investigations started looking good, the trail appeared to have some off-trails that were heading towards what I call "white guys in suits". When those subtrails were noted to these lower level police agents superiors, they were immediately taken off those cases, in some instances, not only removed, but ordered to not talk about it, and ordered to "forget about it". See my final note at bottom of this post.
Governmental agencies are not the only ones with advanced intelligence services, both the oil industry and the insurance industry and the banking industry have their own private intelligence services, and they are *not* all that incompetent. Also, there is a lot of cross referencing and cooperation involved, as most if not all of the private intel services have as their directors and top level employees retired (?) governmental officers.
In US recent history, large scheduled airliners or large private planes with flight plans are monitored. Deviations from flight path, if not immediately rectified over radio communications, are met with immediate scrambling of the nearest available fighter planes. The lag time for this to happen on 9-11, with FOUR (earliest reports were 5 planes, the existence of the 5th is still controversial) was an extreme aberration. it in no way resembles any similar incident, and there are reports of planes that could have been scrambled as routine, but were ordered to stand down for a critical short time period. No credible explanation has ever been offered for this seemingly large "lapse in judgement" considering multiples of planes like this going off course severely would tell anyone past a room temperature IQ that something rather strange and probably "not good" was occurring.
The buildings themselves, the two towers specifically, suffered again, some rather strange engineering phenomena in order to collapse. Fuel tanks and the fuel contained therein inside the planes, travelling at roughly 500 MPH, smashing into large buildings, would have resulted in the bulk of the fuel being vaporized, and as a vapor or at a minimum highly dropletised, would have almost immediately burnt, not leaked slowly down through one hundred stories of a building. This can be verified by merely watching the video of the second hit, the fuel did all burn up on impact. By other accounts, firefighters were reporting easy access until the moment the building really collapsed, said collapse giving more appearance of a controlled demolition than anything else. In particular, building 7, which had no plane impact, collapsed identically to any number of other recorded previously controlled implosions. No suitable and credible explanation for building 7s collapse and destruction has ever occurred, yet it did happen. In addition, "fire" in and of itself has never prviously resulted in any modern high rise to collapse in such a straight down manner. This is supposedly now two engineering defying occurrences happening within a short period of time. Odds of that occurring naturally are tremendously against those events happening.
Ties, both direct business and indirect obfuscated daisy chained corporate,between high level governmental personages and various "wahabist" oriented governments and individuals, including very wealthy individuals. The only two nations that are(were) primarily wahabist are afghanistan and saudi arabia. All the names and business ties are well known.
In large scale economics, global scale, double and triple crossing is not an unusual occurrence. When you are talking of not billions but trillions of dollars, this should always be taken into consideration.
In considering a crime, the primary focus for determining guilt is to consider the question of "who profits?"
Temporary alliances can be made, for very different reasons, as long as the results achieve a conclusion that profits each of the allies in the alliance. The profitable reasons can be quite varied, they need not be the same reason. The classic example of this would be something like the JFK assassination. There were many credible reasons why a variety of groups/factions would have wanted kennedy "gone". The oil depletion allowance tax law, the elimination of the federal reserve and the "interest" payments to them, and a return ot offical treasury "money", the loss of cuba, the loss (to some) of the upcoming southeast asia games,the renewed interest at actually combatting the mafia under rfks leadership in opposition to j edgars ignoring of same, etc, are all interconnected time-wise events that resulted in any number of high level and powerful "connected ones" becoming *most annoyed* with JFK. So, he gets whacked, this is not rocket science here. Cooperation in this occurring, and using cutouts, patsys, plausible deniability, etc are according to most researchers the "who,why and how" the assassination occurred. Very few if any mainstream researchers at this point in historical time consider oswald to be a lone nut who did it. The consensus, and even after the second official government investigation, is that there were at least two shooters, ie, "a conspiracy" and not a random lone nut. In the immediate time frame though, popular public opinion and official governmental pronouncements were all "the lone nut theory". Double emphasis on "official". Make that triple. Records are sealed until the year--whatever, I forget but it's a long time from now. Basically forever for people now on the planet. 20-something big number.
9-11, being a similar styled event-an event that can be classed as "world class-paradigm and reality shifting" should be viewed similar, with a critical eye towards "official" pronouncements. The old adage applies, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". Also reference "the SURPRISE attack at pearl harbor, and the 'gulf of tonkin' attack" among others.
Various new governmental initiatives, in particular, patriot act 1, patriot act 2 (first denied it even existed, vehemently denied), homeland security, model states health powers emergency act, and some others, can be considered a total re-work of the government of the united states. Any blief they are less than that is naieve and shows lack of actually reading the documents. Their full implementations completely change our society and government, and it hardly has started yet. The traditional "fine print" inspections, like any contract, provide the details. It is equivalent to a complete re write of the constitution, without an "official" re write, as a constitutional convention would be 'by law" required. But the results are the same, especially if you-you being "the controllers in charge of giving orders"- implement them because you are merely strong enough, ie, "by force" and coercion, and label anyone in opposition as "being with the terrorists". That statement should NEVER be forgotten about. We also have the rather strange pronouncemnts of the clerk in chief saying 'we should never harbor any strange conspiracy theories about who did 9-11" without any sort of public investigation as to who really did it. It was pronounced who did it, hmm, rather quickly and arbitraily. That statement also puts people on record to "don't go there, don't look-or else" which is a direct threat. A direct threat to not look, dont investigate-or else. After considerable time,and public outcry, an "investigation" was ordered, with such a "trustworthy" soul as Henry Kissinger set up as first pick to head the investigation. I would term that so ridiculous as to be worthy of any second rate vegas stand up comedian. That tells me again, it backs up the supposition that no true "investigation" is wanted, that in fact, it is clear indications of an advanced "coverup" effort.
Back to "who profits?" IMO, many, primarily based on money, power, strategic georgraphical interests. Anyone who thinks "oil" doesn't enter the picture can stop reading, skip this post, and don't even bother replying. Oil is definetly with no shadow of a doubt involved in this. Hundreds of billions a year of black market profits in illegal drugs are involved as well. Hundreds of billions in advanced technology sales and service is involved. Geographical "threats" represented by some nations in the immediate area of iraq and other neighbors are involved. The main cast of characters are inclusive of, but not restricted to, kuwait, iran, saudi arabia, the gulf states, syria, turkey, and israel. The "western" countries involved must be viewed in a totality of economic and strategic interests, not just pick and choose what level or what area to look at.
The concept of "the big lie" is well documented and understood historically. Any attempt at a really BIG big lie has to by practicality concerns be initiated at a level able to pull this off, that leaves one choice only, Governmental, sub section, a faction inside the "governmental" realm, and probably with "allies". Again, compartmentalisation.
No other single entity has the resources necessary, nor the already established compartmentalisation of it's resources that would be needed to both promote the big lie, pull it off, and carry it through to completion, and to most importantly, obfuscate most of what would be neede to be hidden to accomplis the "big lie's" goals.
My conclusion is that 9-11 attack was allowed to occur. The hijackers were mere underlings, basically manipulated and brainwashed into being retarded patsys. The reasons are numerous, plain vanilla old human greed reasons of command, control, power, authority, money, wealth, etc.
The side issues of Iraq is that it is a long running example of something that has occurred in the past. For an example, Noriega in panama, ostensibly an "ally", once his usefulness ended and he started demanding "more profits" from serious high level smuggling, he was removed using "official" military resources because of the complexity of his removal. Saddam is similar. Equally bad, equally connected, no longer useful for the various high level factions. Double crossed quite clearly in gulf war 1. The ties between saddam/iraq and the wahabists represented by osama bin laden are neglibile at best. All credible reports going way back indicate they were enemies, not allies. Saddam has always been a secularist. For all practical purposes, the two "things" represented by the WTC attacks and iraq are nebulous at best, into the ludicrous level. but we have the strange ocurrence of a concerted effort to blend these two things into peoples belief systems. It's more or less successful as well. I maiontain it's part of the total "big lie".
For some more relevations indicating official governmental prior knowledge and involvement in this reichstagg event of 9-11, there will be a guest on alex jones tonight. the guest is the lawyer who actuallyrepresents some of the lower level police who were ordered off the terrorism trail case prior to 9-11. that's really the best place to crack reality open, to show how dangerous the course the US is on officially. This is not a joke, and we won't be able to reset the game on this one.
infowars.com, for info on schedules and feeds, etc. His show goes on starting at 9pm central time. gcnlive.com has the full list of affiliate am/fm/sw stations, etc as well.
works it's way back to the terrorists? Nice manuever by the US :)
Oh spare us, Bin Laden fought in Afghanistan and then wanted to come home as a hereo and "protect" the Saudi oil fields. The Saudi family told him thanks but no thanks and the American forces were chosen for the task. Bin Laden got all upset about the rejection and decided that we were infidels on sacred land so attacking us was okay. He's as power hungry as the next dictator and was all butt hurt that he was rejected. A war hero with no one to recognize him as he felt he should be.
GOD BLESS OUR GOVERNMENT!
Sigh, when you think the original revolution involved complaints about British taxes far less than the ones we have now...
Those knives are allowed in a lot of places.. why doen's it happen everywhere else? If there was no "issue" between the terroristas and the US foreign policies 9/11 wouldn't have happened even if rocketlaunchers were allowed on board.
According to BBC news, the capture isn't even confirmed yet. We only have a couple of grainy photos of him (we can't even see his face) being held by some military personnel. But again I could be wrong...
http://www.palmzone.net
It happened because people were opressed and somebody offered a way out (although arguably not the right way). That is were you have to change things. Preventing somebody from blowing himself up is done by taking away the need for such an act.
You are implying that everyone is reasonable and rational, which fundamentalists and extremeists generally aren't. I know you want to view the Muslims and nobile victims - but has it occured to you that alot of them are completely fucking crazy? Take off those rosey goggles and take a look at the nature of people. Don't buy into this naive garbage so easily.
Their oppression is mostly their own doing, and they aren't as poor as they are misguided. Bin Laden's personal fortune (and he is one of what, fifty kids in that family?) amounts to more dollars than the total exports of that entire country for a fucking YEAR. He could have rebuilt that a rather sizable part of that fucking country out of pocket if he wanted to help "his people". He didn't...know why? HE'S FUCKING CRAZY.
What is more entertaining, is that Saddam is worse...but that is fodder for another day.
Please cite one credible news link to such a story - past or present.
Hey, I'm sure that the French and Israeli services have never targetted another country for this purpose huh? Maybe the Germans are clean - ya' think?
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Actually, if you dig a little, you'll find that the reason for the cameras in patrol cars is to protect US from the cops -- not the other way around.
Not sure that level of checks and balances is in place for Echelon.
I was more concerned with the manner in which the Guardian was doing its reporting. I know that on the Internet it's common to report "news" as "Reuters said this", but I always thought that a major U.K. publication would do a little more than play Google News, in print.
HEY!
:(
;)
nakedgeekgrrls.com doesn't exist.
Oh well..
"If you have a problem with the methods used to capture these boils on the collective asshole of the human race, then I have a serious problem with you."
Amen, but I disagree with you on one point..
"Get off the linux/free/communist/socialist ideology and use your goddamn head for once - those responsible need to found, pumped for intelligence, then shot."
Come now, with today's medical knowledge, and a bit of restraint on the part of our boys, we can keep torture up for truly lengthy spans of time.
The are things worse than death, you know, if you do them right.
"Echelon reportedly monitors phone numbers and voices, then uses satellite triangulation to locate the user. "
Similar triangulation used in the U.S.:
GeoLocation
Pakistan Accused of Staging Bin Laden Aide Arrest
at this stage of worldwide tension (thanks a whole lot Washington) it's best to keep a very open and skeptical mind about anything reported in any press...
Duh.
This incident is big news here in Switzerland, because organized crime has been using the anonymous prepaid SIM cards (Switzerland being the only nation, I believe, to allow this) for some years now to evade police surveillance. The police, being organized at the cantonal level (the level of the states) has virtually no COMINT assets to speak of to deal with this (unlike the U.S., it appears...)
It appears very likely now that Parliament will enact legislation to make personal registration mandatory, despite the protest of the biggest telco, Swisscom, who's been making very good profits off it.
err..sorry about the fucked up title. I post from work via CGIProxy and Mozilla, which has been doing so funky things I am too lazy (and busy) to sit down and figure out. I think I have to kill a cookie and disable the auto-complete forms "feature".
That is a prety vicious circle over there and our media - and theirs BTW - are pretty biased. We hear about the women and children killed, they hear that their enemies have been killed. The truth is somewhere in between. Worse, they have become so opressed that many cannot make a living for themselves - now how is THAT solving anything?
What a mess. Neither side seems willing to solve this, it's all or nothing and a war of attrition.
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
...plus an extra $2 million so his family can relocate to Britain. What a great deal!
Step 1: Train in the desert for 2 years under some of the world's most notorious terrorists.
Step 2: Sell out.
Step 3: Profit.
But it doesn't end there...
Step 4: After a few years of an excessive lifestyle, become discontent and disillusioned.
Step 5: Start quoting the koran, rallying fanatics to kill the "capitalist infidels"
Step 6: Train impoverished soldiers in the desert (using US-given millions of dollar)
Rinse & Repeat.
____
ATS11=0 the secret to beating everyone else to a 1 line board.
The parent post does a great job of looking at how the system operates today. What I think is a reasonable privacy threat is what happens in ten years, when the system better manages s/n ratio, and when data is stored for "much longer." Scanning present data is one thing, but when you can go back years to find everything you ever said on the phone... it becomes a little more scary.
One of the fundemental safegaurds in democracy is the inefficiency of the government. When the government can respond to a potential problem in real time, the other consequences - human rights, civil liberties, etc. - are threatened.
You'd better not hope I ever meet you on the street, because you'll be lying in a pool of your own piss, blood and vomit for days to come. People like you deserve to go live with Hussein - let's see you blow off like that in Iraq. Your filthy tounge would be nailed to a board as they literally crucify your swollen beaten body. Slime like you need to die a slow horrible death like that.
The one that allows militaries to operate clandestinely to prepare such attacks(i.e., not uniformed)?
The one that Al Qaeda signed?
Let us all know when you find that Geneva Convention.
The only Geneva Convention I'm aware of specifically states that those that do not abide by its rules do not get its protections. In fact, IIRC it even goes so far as to label such as "illegal combatants".
The Federation of American Scientists have had a really informative site about Echelon, for quite some while. The FAS provides an excellent service to the onliune community by making widely available much of the source information of various government entities and various publications. FAS seems to be able to present its information in an objective manner that allows the reader to interpret the information from the source (with the option of reading further analyses).
invade your privacy? The privacy laws are made by the same people that invade your privacy. Erm. Damn.
I miss my rubber keyboard.(Homepage)
So to defeat the terrorists, you just change foreign policy to their suiting! Now I get it. Then we win!
This is so brilliant, I wonder why our President hasn't though of it yet.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
There's a lot of stuff about nuclear aircraft engine research around, for a spoof.e l.html
E.g. [1] http://www.idahoptv.org/buildingbig/buildings/ine
"Interesting points: Two prototype nuclear aircraft engines are on public display near the EBR-I reactor facility."
[1] There are no spaces in that URL, but the posting form seems to want to put one in...
A 100% defence against voiceprint identification: use text messaging.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
This post is at least tangentally on topic so please bear with me. I am attempting to address the posters comments and show why Eschelon is not necessary and may, under the wrong circumstances, be actually counterproductive to the war on terror. Also this is a longish post and /. has no spellcheck ;-)
;-)).
Oh please. Stop with the Israel bashing, it's showing your true prejudice. The Palestinians were given a state by the same mandate as Israel, but their leaders were too stupid/malignant to keep it, as the current leadership is too stupid/malignant to control anything resembling a real government. If the Palestinian people had picked responsible leadership, they would have a state now instead of the mess they're in. What kind of leader tells his people that the best thing they can do is guarantee an express ticket to hell by strapping a bomb on their back? But I digress.
Hmmm.... I suppose loaning someone lots and lots of money so that they can buy gooods from your friends (i.e. weapons manufacturers) is an act of love? I personally feel that all the aid we are giving Israel is very possibly something that will eventually drain their economy dry. With friends like us, who needs enemies?
Lest you think I am bashing the government of Israel, the idea of retreating to the 1967 borders
As for the 1967 borders, it will happen. Even as we speak, a fence is being built, largely on those borders, even through the city of Jerusalem. Such "Israel Bashers" as you seem to call them include Fmr. PM Ehud Barak, Fmr Speaker of the Knesset Abraham Berg, and even the Israeli National Security Council, so this is not even a total jab at the Government of Israel. Even the Sharon Administration, while it tells the Israeli people that it is not going to negotiate with the Palestinians, is preparing for unilateral separation. This is not dissimilar to Netanyahu's (sp?) negotiations with Assad of Syria regarding the return of the Golan Hights even while he was taking the public stand that Israel would hold that land forever. (That story was broken by Ariel Sharon in his campagne to take over the Likud leadership, and explains a lot of the current Likud infighting recently between those two figures.) If these facts are foreign to you, perhaps you should read Ha'aretz every day too (their home page is http://www.haaretzdaily.com).
Israel's fundamental problem is that it will not extend citizenship rights to the people living within the borders it currently occupies. If it did, within 10 years, the state would have an Arab majority. Even if it doesn't, under current trends, we are looking at the Arab-Israeli population outnumbering the Jewish-Israeli population by 2050, probably sooner. The Arab-Israeli population is growing twice as fast as the Jewish population, and if you don't beliebve me check the CIA World Factbook. So under current trends, in less than half a century, unless unthinkable attrocities are committed, there will be no Jewish state in the Middle East. It might be a secular democracy, but it will not be a Jewish state.
Return to the 1967 borders? Get used to the new borders. So I guess we should get used to a country with a minority of Jews-- no longer a Jewish state. Israel doesn't have a choice. They have to go back. Their other option is to kill every Palestinian and Arab Israeli. But then they would have to become genacidal, and I am willing to argue that Israel is better than that (at least most elements of their government are, and most of the Israeli people are, and since the only exception I have ever met also ate a ham and cheese sandwich in front of me, I don't think she counts
Do the Persians hate the Jews? Or do they take pride in the role of Cyrus the Great in their liberation? If so, why are the Sephardim represented in the Iranian legislature? BTW, I am of Sephardic descent.
The problem that Israel happens is that the following conclusion is self-perpetuating: They hate us and the only way out is to respond with crushing military force. This has not worked for Israel, and it is not working for the US. It did not even work for the Romans (Caligula supposedly said "Let them hate, so long as they fear"). IMO, this is something so foreign to Judaism as a way of life that it is hard to understand why Israel is so blindly supported unless you understand that it was founded on the fundamental premise that anti-Semitism was undefeatible in Britain, France, Russia, and Germany. Quite frankly the US was there too. This was after WWI as per the Balfour declaration and the British supprted it provided that the non-Jewish residents were provided for.
The idea of inspiring fear and terror in one's enemies never brings peace. And in the end, it only furthers the sort of asymetric war that we see in Israel and against the US. This sort of policy *is* state terrorism and the real problem is that terrorism is due, I believe to terror. People strike targets with terrorist means that they themselves are terrified of. We have to break the cycle somewhere. Otherwise, in the words of Archbishop Bowman "The war on terror... will continue until it consumes us." (He wrote these words in 1998.)
As a result, we should do what we can in order to bring security to everybody on the planet. If that means fighting the occasional war, so be it. But it should also mean forming treaties which ban destabilizing technologies such as space-based lasers, other technologies which prevent countries from feeling like they can effectively deter the US such as the Anti-Ballistic Laser, etc.
And I think that Eschelon is something that has to go as well. If the reward was necessary for catching this guy, then I see no reason to assume that we could not have caught him without it. Eschelon might however, make people fear the US a bit more-- particularly foreign governments. This is not a healthy strategy for us as a nation to take. We need to be encouraging global security and cooperation between governments because that is the real way we will track down and capture the 9/11 conspirators and also help prevent future attacks on the US.
I think that there is no indication that Eschelon made this arrest possible, and I think that on the whole, it actually hurts our world position in the war on terror.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
[If you have to ask, you wouldn't appreciate it anyway]
The old style non LEO phones(eg:not Irridium). Very difficult to pinpoint there exact location, unless you can manage to get a couple of aircraft with direction finding equipment into the beam path. Even then it's still much harder to get a fix than a cell phone.
And as we probably all learned at school, the a distinguishing feature of Puritans is their faith in providence.
How long before Witchfinder General is added to Mr Ashcroft's job description?
A quick Google for 60 Minutes and Echelon turned up this transcript of a 60 Minutes piece I once saw on Echelon.
As I recall, the jist of the story is that Echelon basically intercepts every possible bit that it can, all over the world. (The man interviewed states, "Every square inch [of planet Earth].") However, both the US and UK have anti-domestic-spying legislation that the intellegence community finds inconvenient. Thus the UK spys on US citizens and vice-versa. Then they swap the intel. All of which, believe or not, is perfectly legal and above board, apparently.
While this legerdemain is very clever, I judge it to be immoral and without honor. To think that, at least in the US, most of these men swear an oath to defend the United States and the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. Absolutely without honor.
I may be wrong, but doesn't GSM have a built in encryption machanism to make sure that your calls are kept private? I know my Motorola C331 manual says that the phone will alert me if it detects a device monitoring a call. So if this is true, even though you could still get a wiretap to monitor the call once it gets to the telco, this would be nearly impossible if somebody is using a prepaid phone like the article said, since you'd have to tap all prepaid phones. So what I want to know is since Europe is pretty much all GSM, how are they able to monitor the call?
I mean no offence nor I'm terrorist or planig to be one but:
Did it occur to you that maybe those terrorits are not attacking USA because they "disagree with ideals of USA" but because "they do not like ideals of USA being imposed on their country/culture (because they disagree with such ideals)"?
I'm asking because I'm curious. I would like to hear also from terrorists for that matter.
hany
...what do you mean, paranoid?
THE LESSER-KNOWN PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #10: SIMPLE
SIMPLE is an acronym for Sheer Idiot's Monopurpose Programming Language
Environment. This language, developed at the Hanover College for
Technological Misfits, was designed to make it impossible to write code
with errors in it. The statements are, therefore, confined to BEGIN,
END and STOP. No matter how you arrange the statements, you can't make
a syntax error. Programs written in SIMPLE do nothing useful. Thus
they achieve the results of programs written in other languages without
the tedious, frustrating process of testing and debugging.
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...