I live in Redmond and no points for guessing that pretty much every home is on cable or DSL - i had to choose comcast cable since i was out of the DSL radius and guess what? 1.5Mbps and 128k just didn't cut it - even at 25$ for the first four months wasn't good since pretty everyone around had the same package and i wasn't happy with my connection (online gaming suffered - downloads suffered during peak times). So i had to choose their pro package at 95$ a month:| (3.5Mbps down and 400k up) - I don't really eat up my bandwidth but i am paying more for when i need it, it is there.
The word applied has been spelt as applyed. I can understand blatant abuse of the English language in the posts by slashdot users but on the main of slashdot - typos are just not acceptable.
Well i saw it yesterday (sneak preview) - tell you what? go with 0 expectations and it will be almost alright. Without spoiling anything, all i can tell you people is that don't be surprised or fall dead if you see Matrix 4 (Matrix: Ultimatum) or something come out in the next year.
I have never understood the obsession the/. crowd have with new releases from Microsoft and more with screenshots of Longhorn - everytime a story gets posted on/. about a longhorn leak and its screenshots, i get amused - the builds that are leaked are way old and as someone who sees the latest builds of longhorn all the time (hint hint), i say you, who hate Microsoft and say so, are seriously obsessed with the company. No trolling here - just an observation...LOOOK NEW LONGHORN SCREENSHOTS...sheesh:)
I am surprised no one has mentioned it - no FPS gamers i guess - i bind scroll lock for useful yet non-common tasks - the suicide key - if your team is losing anyway before the end of the round - kill yourself rather give the opposition a frag. The suicide bind is more useful when you pull a pin from your grenade and rush into the enemy room and kill yourself before the nade explodes and you are shot dead [why? because kills by own nades result in deduction of points in some games and -1 frag].
Another useful bind would be to bind it to an admin function - key - finally, yep there are a 100+ keys on the keyboard but i can show you a function for each of those keys and still have more stuff to bind with with [ever play Tactical Ops?]. Yes, please don't remove the scrollLock key - in fact add, remove the Scroll Lock LED and put another key there. Thank you.
from the article.... Mr Oppenheim also said the RIAA was immume from rules on unreasonable searches on the internet, because it did not have links with law enforcement agencies.
Yep they are immume - everyone needs to work on his/her immumity - the RIAA is immume to everything except perhaps herpes and AIDS - immume - Find more immume here Immumity
All Your Base Are Belong to Us
on
Dotcom Era Fads
·
· Score: 2, Funny
The theme still lives on popping up on gaming message boards from time to time and providing a good laugh. Also the porn dot cum still lives on. Nostalgic? Yes. Slow Sunday? Yes. Sleepy? Yes. Loser? Yeeeeeeeee (damn 'S' key died on me)
The skinny by LindowsBrian on 2003.08.27 15:07 (#67071) User #183638 Info
I just contacted Joe about an hour ago and explained to him our take on this article and with Linux news in general. He was nice enough to send a very prompt reply requesting that I post here, so here goes nothing.
First of all, this article isn't FUD, as a couple of our "hardcores" seem to be claiming. I apologize for that, but I love their spunk.;-)
I'm actually very glad to have seen this article written as Peter, the owner of LindowsDownload.com and OpenLindows.com has been very, very helpful to us in the past and has created a great site that deserves recognition.
To keep this fairly short and as interesting as possible, I'll just sum up some things real quick instead of waxing philisophical.
First off, a minor correction to the article.
1.) Lindows Plus (CNR Memberhsip) is $49.95, not $99, although it once was. Then it included commercial software as well. LindowsOS and Lindows Plus together are only $89 now.
And to respond to a few comments here:
We don't charge for the free software - We charge for the delivery service. For any Linux company to have a shot at making money, you almost have to go the services route. We also offer deep discounts on Commercial software that you can't legally obtain for free-as-in-beer.
We Do give back to the community. Our largest contribution came in the way of Wine. We contributed code as well as nearly half a million dollars. For more info:
http://www.lindows.com/contributions
Getting back to the article, we are not in any way affiliated with LindowsDownload.com, LindowsUser.com, LindowsClub.com, or OpenLindows.com, but I do have what I consider to be a good relationship with the owner.
We don't try to hide the fact that sites like this is exist in order to gain more revenue from CNR. If we wanted to do that, we'd simply make it impossible to use APT, and we don't - Apt is fully functional in LindowsOS and for those more technically inclined, they are more than welcome to use it instead of CNR if it meets their needs.
Most users of other Linux Distros have different needs and different mindsets than our users. Our users want to be able to install software at an affordable price with one-click of the mouse. They don't care if it's GPLed Software, BSD-Style software, commercial software... They simply don't care. So yes, we do market differently than most Linux companies because we are different than most Linux companies - We're going after the desktop space the MS currently owns.
I'm sure we've done some things along the way that aren't in line with most Linux companies and have upset alot of you, but I assure you we do care about the community, we give back to the community, and are currently working with some members of the Debian Community personally.
Brian Thomason Lindows.com Community Liaison
P.S. Feel free to email be at brian.thomason@lindows.com or shoot me an IM on AIM at LindowsBrian
From the article
So alarmed agents of Microsoft sprang into high gear in June after a surprising quote appeared in Nature magazine from an official of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). The official said the Switzerland-based group of about 180 nations, which promotes intellectual-property rights and standards around the globe, was intrigued by the growth of the open-source movement and welcomed the idea of a meeting devoted to open-source's place in the intellectual-property landscape.
Can Microsoft challenge 180 groups from 180 nations? The U.S. government, which wields considerable clout in WIPO, might not have needed prodding from Microsoft to demand that the idea of an open-source meeting be quashed.
*Shoots himself* argh someone run Windows on this gun - it is not killing me
. Red Hat officials said they plan to ship RHEL 3.0 in October. As with Version 2.1, the new release will come in workstation, departmental server and data center server versions, with the high-end version priced at about $2,500.
Ummm who thinks this is a little expensive even for big organisations? Also..
Taroon ships with version 2.1 of the open source Eclipse Development Environment. Eclipse requires a Java virtual machine to run, but Taroon doesn't ship with one.
Does the general/. public know what is going with Novell and Ximian? (apart from the Netware admins). This is what one Netware admin had to say:
Novell needs a new loading OS kernel to build Netware on. DOS certainly has reached it limitations with scalability and security so linux is an obvious solution. They'll still maintain their same environment and NDS tho. But scalability is their main push. E-Directory (NDS) loads on WinNT/2k/2K3 and linux.... but keeping it in its native environment is still the most stable of course.
And the CEO's answer to a question:
CRN: What do you think of Novell buying Ximian? Does this bode well for Linux adoption on the desktop?
Seibt: I would take this as a fact that Novell is taking Linux very, very seriously, and it's another fact that they are not concerned about any lawsuit. They simply believe that Linux is something that is a huge value for the customer. Think about what CA [Computer Associates] just did. They did a survey with their customers about why customers are deploying Linux. [Customers] named five reasons: performance, reliability, scalability, security and total cost of ownership, which came in fifth. What does this mean? Everybody is talking about total cost of ownership, and no doubt this is very important, because all of us have to reduce IT budgets. But customers named four other reasons. These reasons are strategic reasons why to deploy Linux.... This is a competitive advantage to Windows because this is not something you can get with [Windows].
Are these guys aware that many homeless people live on the streets and dumps because the shelters can't take all of them. Is this insanity?
Consider this scenario : Billy gets a 3$ an hour job and works his ass off to earn his bread - but when night comes, he sleeps under a bench in the park or under the bridge for he can't afford a house. 10pm and the cops wake him up and arrest him for doing the very thing - sleeping at a public place - judge fines him 50$ and what now? Here is a case of a man trying to make his living by working hard and the society (yes the law) kicking his poor butt around..
What a dumbfuck of an idea and proposal this is...Get your priorities straight dammit. Spend money on the homeless and bridge the fucking gap instead of tagging 'em so you can keep them out of your town and say its beautiful and well-off
People profiting from other people dying is really bad indeed. Movies such as the Schindler's List attempted to highlight the work of a man who had humanity in his mind. Titanic was about a love story - sure they made money and people cried but the point is with your assumption everything on earth could be reduced to person A profiting from person B's death. Like a son waiting for his father to die - an young executive waiting profiting from his CEO's death - events that occur no matter what. NOW, movies that show young executives plotting their CEO's death or games which have people playing wars which aren't justified aren't in the league of Titanic and Schindler's List. Saving Private Ryan showed the courage of a team of soldiers taking orders. WTF is the comparision with this game?
Also there is a another subtle difference - oh yeah a sane person doesn't come out thorougly enjoyed after watching one of those movies - cmon man get the thing straightened out.
I should be and will be blunt. How many 10 year olds go out to see Schindler's List alone on a Saturday? How many 14 year olds see Titanic the whole of their summer? But when this game comes out, you can be sure these kids would download the demo from the internet if a demo is available or get a copy from godknowswhere and start fragging and learning some history - oh yeah - little Tommy playing this game gets the impression that all Iraqis, NorthKoreans and all Afghans are terrorists - oh yeah no innocent people on their side eh?
Now one would be a dumbass to make the comparision the parent post did.
Money MONEY!
Kinda makes me wonder...the Iraqi war that hasn't been justified yet (remember the justification was some WMD and now the experts say the trailers were for producing hydrogen) and here you have people cashing in on the tragedy again in the form of computer games. Sure it was great for CNN and MSNBC and other agencies - great business... but from the article
A subscription component keeps the action up to date with events in the real world (news - Y! TV). The initial PC game, due out in February, will come with eight to 12 missions in a traditional retail package for about $40. After that, players can choose to download an additional mission every week for a monthly fee of about $10.
Does this sound ethical? Isn't this promoting war in a way?...also from the article
The first title will include missions based on actual happenings in Iraq, Afghanistan (news - web sites), Liberia (news - web sites) and Korea. The game's missions will allow for both single-player and multiplayer experiences, which will vary depending on the actual events that are being re-created in the realistic, virtual worlds.
Sure Sure you are re-enacting history but wtf - who needs to re-enact war really and these kinds of wars....? Ok Afghanistan was justified but I see Liberia above and Korea - is it North Korea - does this mean North K is gonna be "liberated"? Also when i say these wars have to be justified, seriously apart from the innocent civilians, don't the americans care about losing their soldiers? How sad would it to be lose your only son, to lose your husband...lose a father...Jeez mod me as troll or flamebait but making money off these kinda wars(Iraq) is in my opinion unethical besides being bullshit.
Grandpa you should try their drivers now - the driver quality sucked until last year and until the introduction of their 9700 graphicsc card. So you didn't do your homework and bought an ATI tv-tuner - buy Leadtek or perhaps Hauppauge next time - maybe even Pinnacle - just because a company makes good graphics chips doesn't mean they make awesome tv-tuner cards as well - you don't have confidence in ATI whatsoever because you were too lazy to do your homework. Pre 2002 nvidia was the best in the market and for a reason - reading your post was like hearing someone whine about AMD K5 processors when compared to Intel PIIs
Unreal Tournament Infiltration was kickass (when i say was, i mean prev 2.8 versions ) - the later ones tried to mimick Tactical Ops - might as well play TO (a game similar to CounterStrike but better)
No they (the bugs) are in emacs - linux is only the device driver.:) That was funny - now laugh darn it. Coming back to the topic, MPAA might have opened it's anti-filesharing site but look at what the world is doing...
ProFS
Those guys actually list about 500 issues they've taken care of with this release. Go people go!
some useful ones imho
*Mozilla crashes when magnifier is used
*Browser crashes when javascript closes a window [@nsDocShell::InternalLoad]
*Save As > withoua> extention result is a html fila> and a directory >
*When saving a.zip file "as...," Moz appends a.x after the.zip extension
*mozilla can't subscribe to existing imap folders
*Browser crashes on HTTPS urls - Trunk M140RC1 [@cert_get_next_general_name
*Loading personal certificates
*pop3 password failed error msg missing
There can actually be an IPv7 - there was also an IPv5 which never got out of the closed rooms and theoritical discussions and papers. There is no reason for naming that suffix in multiples of 2.
Slashdot Mirror
I live in Redmond and no points for guessing that pretty much every home is on cable or DSL - i had to choose comcast cable since i was out of the DSL radius and guess what? 1.5Mbps and 128k just didn't cut it - even at 25$ for the first four months wasn't good since pretty everyone around had the same package and i wasn't happy with my connection (online gaming suffered - downloads suffered during peak times). So i had to choose their pro package at 95$ a month :| (3.5Mbps down and 400k up) - I don't really eat up my bandwidth but i am paying more for when i need it, it is there.
Price cuts...pssshhh...pffft
The word applied has been spelt as applyed. I can understand blatant abuse of the English language in the posts by slashdot users but on the main of slashdot - typos are just not acceptable.
Agent Smith explodes at the end WTWTWTF? If Neo was corrupting him, then why all the crap with the fight scene before hand?
Kind sir - cannot you realise that Smith needs to be convinced he has beaten Neo and that Neo is now so helpless he cannot resist that takeover part?
No key scene to define the film (think Burly Brawl/Freeway)
What makes you think every movie needs to have a key moment?
Why was Smith such a threat? The machines didn't look that bothered. Why was it left to Neo to fix?
Go see the movie again
Well i saw it yesterday (sneak preview) - tell you what? go with 0 expectations and it will be almost alright. Without spoiling anything, all i can tell you people is that don't be surprised or fall dead if you see Matrix 4 (Matrix: Ultimatum) or something come out in the next year.
I have never understood the obsession the /. crowd have with new releases from Microsoft and more with screenshots of Longhorn - everytime a story gets posted on /. about a longhorn leak and its screenshots, i get amused - the builds that are leaked are way old and as someone who sees the latest builds of longhorn all the time (hint hint), i say you, who hate Microsoft and say so, are seriously obsessed with the company. No trolling here - just an observation...LOOOK NEW LONGHORN SCREENSHOTS...sheesh :)
Just installed it on Windows 2003 Standard SRV - installed great and runs fine.
'Ridiculous' would be the correct word...not rediculous. Using rediculous instead of ridiculous is ridiculously ridiculous. Feel the ridicule yet? :P
I am surprised no one has mentioned it - no FPS gamers i guess - i bind scroll lock for useful yet non-common tasks - the suicide key - if your team is losing anyway before the end of the round - kill yourself rather give the opposition a frag. The suicide bind is more useful when you pull a pin from your grenade and rush into the enemy room and kill yourself before the nade explodes and you are shot dead [why? because kills by own nades result in deduction of points in some games and -1 frag].
Another useful bind would be to bind it to an admin function - key - finally, yep there are a 100+ keys on the keyboard but i can show you a function for each of those keys and still have more stuff to bind with with [ever play Tactical Ops?]. Yes, please don't remove the scrollLock key - in fact add, remove the Scroll Lock LED and put another key there. Thank you.
In Soviet Russia, we...fuck i seem to be losing my connection.....argghh
from the article....
Mr Oppenheim also said the RIAA was immume from rules on unreasonable searches on the internet, because it did not have links with law enforcement agencies.
Yep they are immume - everyone needs to work on his/her immumity - the RIAA is immume to everything except perhaps herpes and AIDS - immume - Find more immume here Immumity
The theme still lives on popping up on gaming message boards from time to time and providing a good laugh. Also the porn dot cum still lives on. Nostalgic? Yes. Slow Sunday? Yes. Sleepy? Yes. Loser? Yeeeeeeeee (damn 'S' key died on me)
From the article
The skinny
by LindowsBrian on 2003.08.27 15:07 (#67071)
User #183638 Info
I just contacted Joe about an hour ago and explained to him our take on this article and with Linux news in general. He was nice enough to send a very prompt reply requesting that I post here, so here goes nothing.
First of all, this article isn't FUD, as a couple of our "hardcores" seem to be claiming. I apologize for that, but I love their spunk.
I'm actually very glad to have seen this article written as Peter, the owner of LindowsDownload.com and OpenLindows.com has been very, very helpful to us in the past and has created a great site that deserves recognition.
To keep this fairly short and as interesting as possible, I'll just sum up some things real quick instead of waxing philisophical.
First off, a minor correction to the article.
1.) Lindows Plus (CNR Memberhsip) is $49.95, not $99, although it once was. Then it included commercial software as well. LindowsOS and Lindows Plus together are only $89 now.
And to respond to a few comments here:
We don't charge for the free software - We charge for the delivery service. For any Linux company to have a shot at making money, you almost have to go the services route. We also offer deep discounts on Commercial software that you can't legally obtain for free-as-in-beer.
We Do give back to the community. Our largest contribution came in the way of Wine. We contributed code as well as nearly half a million dollars. For more info:
http://www.lindows.com/contributions
Getting back to the article, we are not in any way affiliated with LindowsDownload.com, LindowsUser.com, LindowsClub.com, or OpenLindows.com, but I do have what I consider to be a good relationship with the owner.
We don't try to hide the fact that sites like this is exist in order to gain more revenue from CNR. If we wanted to do that, we'd simply make it impossible to use APT, and we don't - Apt is fully functional in LindowsOS and for those more technically inclined, they are more than welcome to use it instead of CNR if it meets their needs.
Most users of other Linux Distros have different needs and different mindsets than our users. Our users want to be able to install software at an affordable price with one-click of the mouse. They don't care if it's GPLed Software, BSD-Style software, commercial software... They simply don't care. So yes, we do market differently than most Linux companies because we are different than most Linux companies - We're going after the desktop space the MS currently owns.
I'm sure we've done some things along the way that aren't in line with most Linux companies and have upset alot of you, but I assure you we do care about the community, we give back to the community, and are currently working with some members of the Debian Community personally.
Brian Thomason
Lindows.com Community Liaison
P.S. Feel free to email be at brian.thomason@lindows.com or shoot me an IM on AIM at LindowsBrian
From the article
So alarmed agents of Microsoft sprang into high gear in June after a surprising quote appeared in Nature magazine from an official of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). The official said the Switzerland-based group of about 180 nations, which promotes intellectual-property rights and standards around the globe, was intrigued by the growth of the open-source movement and welcomed the idea of a meeting devoted to open-source's place in the intellectual-property landscape.
Can Microsoft challenge 180 groups from 180 nations?
The U.S. government, which wields considerable clout in WIPO, might not have needed prodding from Microsoft to demand that the idea of an open-source meeting be quashed.
*Shoots himself* argh someone run Windows on this gun - it is not killing me
. Red Hat officials said they plan to ship RHEL 3.0 in October. As with Version 2.1, the new release will come in workstation, departmental server and data center server versions, with the high-end version priced at about $2,500.
Ummm who thinks this is a little expensive even for big organisations? Also..
Taroon ships with version 2.1 of the open source Eclipse Development Environment. Eclipse requires a Java virtual machine to run, but Taroon doesn't ship with one.
HUH!!!
Does the general /. public know what is going with Novell and Ximian? (apart from the Netware admins). This is what one Netware admin had to say:
... This is a competitive advantage to Windows because this is not something you can get with [Windows].
Novell needs a new loading OS kernel to build Netware on. DOS certainly has reached it limitations with scalability and security so linux is an obvious solution. They'll still maintain their same environment and NDS tho. But scalability is their main push. E-Directory (NDS) loads on WinNT/2k/2K3 and linux.... but keeping it in its native environment is still the most stable of course.
And the CEO's answer to a question:
CRN: What do you think of Novell buying Ximian? Does this bode well for Linux adoption on the desktop? Seibt: I would take this as a fact that Novell is taking Linux very, very seriously, and it's another fact that they are not concerned about any lawsuit. They simply believe that Linux is something that is a huge value for the customer. Think about what CA [Computer Associates] just did. They did a survey with their customers about why customers are deploying Linux. [Customers] named five reasons: performance, reliability, scalability, security and total cost of ownership, which came in fifth. What does this mean? Everybody is talking about total cost of ownership, and no doubt this is very important, because all of us have to reduce IT budgets. But customers named four other reasons. These reasons are strategic reasons why to deploy Linux.
Well what?
Are these guys aware that many homeless people live on the streets and dumps because the shelters can't take all of them. Is this insanity?
Consider this scenario : Billy gets a 3$ an hour job and works his ass off to earn his bread - but when night comes, he sleeps under a bench in the park or under the bridge for he can't afford a house. 10pm and the cops wake him up and arrest him for doing the very thing - sleeping at a public place - judge fines him 50$ and what now? Here is a case of a man trying to make his living by working hard and the society (yes the law) kicking his poor butt around.
What a dumbfuck of an idea and proposal this is...Get your priorities straight dammit. Spend money on the homeless and bridge the fucking gap instead of tagging 'em so you can keep them out of your town and say its beautiful and well-off
People profiting from other people dying is really bad indeed. Movies such as the Schindler's List attempted to highlight the work of a man who had humanity in his mind. Titanic was about a love story - sure they made money and people cried but the point is with your assumption everything on earth could be reduced to person A profiting from person B's death. Like a son waiting for his father to die - an young executive waiting profiting from his CEO's death - events that occur no matter what. NOW, movies that show young executives plotting their CEO's death or games which have people playing wars which aren't justified aren't in the league of Titanic and Schindler's List. Saving Private Ryan showed the courage of a team of soldiers taking orders. WTF is the comparision with this game? Also there is a another subtle difference - oh yeah a sane person doesn't come out thorougly enjoyed after watching one of those movies - cmon man get the thing straightened out.
I should be and will be blunt. How many 10 year olds go out to see Schindler's List alone on a Saturday? How many 14 year olds see Titanic the whole of their summer? But when this game comes out, you can be sure these kids would download the demo from the internet if a demo is available or get a copy from godknowswhere and start fragging and learning some history - oh yeah - little Tommy playing this game gets the impression that all Iraqis, NorthKoreans and all Afghans are terrorists - oh yeah no innocent people on their side eh?
Now one would be a dumbass to make the comparision the parent post did.
Money MONEY! ... but from the article
Kinda makes me wonder...the Iraqi war that hasn't been justified yet (remember the justification was some WMD and now the experts say the trailers were for producing hydrogen) and here you have people cashing in on the tragedy again in the form of computer games. Sure it was great for CNN and MSNBC and other agencies - great business
A subscription component keeps the action up to date with events in the real world (news - Y! TV). The initial PC game, due out in February, will come with eight to 12 missions in a traditional retail package for about $40. After that, players can choose to download an additional mission every week for a monthly fee of about $10.
Does this sound ethical? Isn't this promoting war in a way?...also from the article
The first title will include missions based on actual happenings in Iraq, Afghanistan (news - web sites), Liberia (news - web sites) and Korea. The game's missions will allow for both single-player and multiplayer experiences, which will vary depending on the actual events that are being re-created in the realistic, virtual worlds.
Sure Sure you are re-enacting history but wtf - who needs to re-enact war really and these kinds of wars....? Ok Afghanistan was justified but I see Liberia above and Korea - is it North Korea - does this mean North K is gonna be "liberated"? Also when i say these wars have to be justified, seriously apart from the innocent civilians, don't the americans care about losing their soldiers? How sad would it to be lose your only son, to lose your husband...lose a father...Jeez mod me as troll or flamebait but making money off these kinda wars(Iraq) is in my opinion unethical besides being bullshit.
Grandpa you should try their drivers now - the driver quality sucked until last year and until the introduction of their 9700 graphicsc card. So you didn't do your homework and bought an ATI tv-tuner - buy Leadtek or perhaps Hauppauge next time - maybe even Pinnacle - just because a company makes good graphics chips doesn't mean they make awesome tv-tuner cards as well - you don't have confidence in ATI whatsoever because you were too lazy to do your homework. Pre 2002 nvidia was the best in the market and for a reason - reading your post was like hearing someone whine about AMD K5 processors when compared to Intel PIIs
Unreal Tournament Infiltration was kickass (when i say was, i mean prev 2.8 versions ) - the later ones tried to mimick Tactical Ops - might as well play TO (a game similar to CounterStrike but better)
No they (the bugs) are in emacs - linux is only the device driver. :) That was funny - now laugh darn it. Coming back to the topic, MPAA might have opened it's anti-filesharing site but look at what the world is doing...
ProFS
Those guys actually list about 500 issues they've taken care of with this release. Go people go! .zip file "as...," Moz appends a .x after the .zip extension
some useful ones imho
*Mozilla crashes when magnifier is used
*Browser crashes when javascript closes a window [@nsDocShell::InternalLoad]
*Save As > withoua> extention result is a html fila> and a directory > *When saving a
*mozilla can't subscribe to existing imap folders
*Browser crashes on HTTPS urls - Trunk M140RC1 [@cert_get_next_general_name
*Loading personal certificates
*pop3 password failed error msg missing
sext...damn another metric cousin...call me back when instr(postonSlashdot,3) returns SEX
*goes back to room*
SHIT ITS 2003!!
There can actually be an IPv7 - there was also an IPv5 which never got out of the closed rooms and theoritical discussions and papers. There is no reason for naming that suffix in multiples of 2.