via GAIM about all this. The first thought I had about all this is that "Once again, vendor lock-in rears its ugly head as a business model."
I'll not claim any sort of objectivity in the matter, even in this august forum. The business(es) in question certainly won't, either.
Regardless of vendor lock-in, I will give Microsoft, Yahoo, AOL, etc. this much credit: They know the import of being the "de facto" (everyday) standard as opposed to being the "official" (RFC) standard.
Do what I did: randomly ask your Joe Users what they think about (for example) Sun's "Mad Hatter" distro, or Linux in general. Even if it *could* save them a few mil USD, provable with quotes on paper.
Guess what? Nobody has any clue that there's anything else. If there is, they don't wanna know abour it - they already have a (Win NT) system. If it's not on prime-time TV I guess it doesn't exist.
The whole thing is very reminiscent of the late 1880's railroads in the USA. Everybody had their own track guage and locomotive. Everybody was trying to *be* the standard, instead of seeing the greater goal of the passengers, freight, (clients) etc; which was, to get from point A to point B as painlessly as possible.
Sorry bout all that, just had to let it all out. "The devil you know..." and all that.
maybe linux has *already* stolen "income-generating-business" and hence the recent focus on it by Microsoft?
I honestly don't think the specific language/implementation (Java vs C#) has much to do with it. Nor, for that matter, does the business integration concept of dot-net or mono.
What has *everything* to do with it (just IMHO) is whether a business process/procedure should be patentable in the first place, let alone specific implementations.
Just a qualifier here; I don't do that stuff, I guess I'm "the wider community". However, I'm not all that concerned if an organization could "take it away from us"; if they do so, they'll do it without the insight of the original founders even giving a crap if their organization lives or dies.
just the sort of thing I've been waiting for. How long does anyone want to bet it remains "windows only"?
Not taking anything away from OSX or BSD folks; if they invented it first, then so be it. Credit where credit is due.
However, this Linux user thinks that this is the sort of "killer app" we've been needing for a long time (along with better desktop integration, et al...)
Hrmmm.... thanks for the info, I was only considering tax purposes. I had no idea that there was a difference in that regard between -micro and -home brews.
I'll stand by my statements regarding fine Scotch; it runs in the blood.
OTOH, there's a good recipie for some quick-n-dirty stuff to be found near the back of "The Starving Artist's Cookbook", involving a coconut and some rasins. It's quite similar to the classical "mead" it seems.
Thanks for the (legal) info again, could you post any good links for this stuff? I'm using the "Foxfire" books and a few-hundred-year-old diary, trying to re-create things from way back.
I thank the Gods that software isn't so regulated yet, but maybe a few software companies should be IMHO.
Yes, sad to say the the beer situation in the USA probably *is* that bad. The trick is to find a *reliable* importer or a local bar ("pub").
OTOH, there is a newer trend towards micro-brewing here; an individual is allowed up to 200 gallons per year for personal use without papers under Federal law.
Within an hour's drive from any major US city are dozens of for-profit micro's. This is a Good Thing (TM) IMHO. I don't know the exact locations, but I can recommend Buffalo Lager and Oberon. Maybe Google has something on that.
No, no, I'd pick Red Dog for RH and St. Pauli Dark for SuSe. Or Pils.
Mandrake is definitely a Kronenbourg (sp?)
For Gentoo, a decent Scotch would suffice, no ice. Try Glenfiddich or Claynellish 25 year if you can afford a few days of non-functionality.
LFS is in a class by itself; those spirits can run afoul of the BATF and the IRS in the USA. Also, its a lot of work to build a distillery in the woods and move hundreds of pounds of rye. But, at least you get some amazingly good stuff, provided you don't get busted.
However, I must add: I mostly agree with you, and I haven't seen such a fine taste in beer as yours in a good many years. Cheers!
My.edu (ITT Tech) does not allow *any* unknown devices on their campus networks. You can be expelled for trying that. Its landline only, so wireless isn't possible. To do a demo or something, you must have it approved by your instructor; presumably it goes up the authority chain from there.
I actually approve of this, despite trying to demo linux on an NT/2k network. Ultimately, the problem is one of enforcing policy at the machine level. What if there *is* no policy?
How much do you want to bet that NYS can still make phone service more expensive than FLA, regardless of this new tax? Heh, my basic landline deal is $39.95/mo + extra for an unlisted number. The basic bill per month is on the 1st page. The next 4 pages are itemized Tarriffs, State + Federal taxes, maintenance fees, etc. Bringing the total to about $70/mo.
Broadband and VoIP suddenly look very attractive here. Bummer that not everybody has both capabilities at once.
Not to be pedantic (I know what the situation is), but since when is the state of Linux dependent on any companies, let alone 2 companies?
Would "enterprise scalability" have been harder without corporate support? Yes, no doubt. What about "secure networks" of all kinds? Yes, that would have been harder. What about good old academic rigor? Well, we needed that perhaps.
So, IMHO the corps are right and justified to be proud; they should advertise it on TV in fact. I personally have no prob with buying their products. But dammit, they shouldn't act like they're the only thing, because those who know this biz know better than that... and they write the salesman's check.
Yes, both Suse and RH have massive resources within the Linux community. Yes, SGI and IBM do too. In this game, minds and hearts count as much as dollars. But let's not be stupid here; it's just a fraction of a very fractured market, overall.
So would the biz types please lose the used-car salesman mentality for the sake of my patience?
just because of huge contract lead times, and this is just simple recognition of the fact. Any number of alternatives could pop up in the meanwhile (before anybody actually does anything), and that possibility needs to be accounted for.
how many "middle men" are in the typical spam food chain, playing the percentages. Extra bonuses for network names, IP addys, hosting providers, etc. And also, why don't these large companies have the balls to just do it directly, themselves?/me thinks they are much like the Wizard of Oz, in this regard.
Fair enough, I guess that makes me an "advanced" user. Actually all I do is read the advisories on updates.redhat.com and linuxtoday.com and follow the instructions. I must've missed the part about being for "joe sixpack".
But you still understand why you need to apply a Windows update? Go figure...
If you understand *neither* of the above, then maybe that's *why* you have an IT dept., contractor, or whatever?/me suspects that most US businesses would *love* to revert to a paper-based system, pre-computer era. Unfortunately, they don't want the drawbacks of it. In other words, there is no free lunch. Bummer.
broad statement, isn't it? (referring to the original article quote).
I only hope that millions of Florida residents just toss it in the garbage along with the rest of the junk mail. In other words, setlement terms as proposed are not acepted or acknowledged.
Slashdot Mirror
via GAIM about all this. The first thought I had about all this is that "Once again, vendor lock-in rears its ugly head as a business model."
I'll not claim any sort of objectivity in the matter, even in this august forum. The business(es) in question certainly won't, either.
Regardless of vendor lock-in, I will give Microsoft, Yahoo, AOL, etc. this much credit: They know the import of being the "de facto" (everyday) standard as opposed to being the "official" (RFC) standard.
Do what I did: randomly ask your Joe Users what they think about (for example) Sun's "Mad Hatter" distro, or Linux in general. Even if it *could* save them a few mil USD, provable with quotes on paper.
Guess what? Nobody has any clue that there's anything else. If there is, they don't wanna know abour it - they already have a (Win NT) system. If it's not on prime-time TV I guess it doesn't exist.
The whole thing is very reminiscent of the late 1880's railroads in the USA. Everybody had their own track guage and locomotive. Everybody was trying to *be* the standard, instead of seeing the greater goal of the passengers, freight, (clients) etc; which was, to get from point A to point B as painlessly as possible.
Sorry bout all that, just had to let it all out. "The devil you know..." and all that.
maybe linux has *already* stolen "income-generating-business" and hence the recent focus on it by Microsoft?
I honestly don't think the specific language/implementation (Java vs C#) has much to do with it. Nor, for that matter, does the business integration concept of dot-net or mono.
What has *everything* to do with it (just IMHO) is whether a business process/procedure should be patentable in the first place, let alone specific implementations.
Just a qualifier here; I don't do that stuff, I guess I'm "the wider community". However, I'm not all that concerned if an organization could "take it away from us"; if they do so, they'll do it without the insight of the original founders even giving a crap if their organization lives or dies.
just the sort of thing I've been waiting for. How long does anyone want to bet it remains "windows only"?
Not taking anything away from OSX or BSD folks; if they invented it first, then so be it. Credit where credit is due.
However, this Linux user thinks that this is the sort of "killer app" we've been needing for a long time (along with better desktop integration, et al...)
Cool! This looks like the *perfect* tool to sort and find dupes in my pr0n collection...
(AFAIK, nobody ever said the input to md5sum had to be human-readable)
Nukem High is for real? I thought that was just a cheesy Troma flick...
my best-ever. A mouthful of beer and a sudden sneeze into an opened-up and running 486 deskdop was all it took to destroy my old RH 5.2 box.
FWIW yes, I recovered all my stuff into a new machine, and promptly burned it all onto CD.
They have good parachutes. Just in case. Some bottled oxygen probably houldn't hurt either.
Hrmmm.... thanks for the info, I was only considering tax purposes. I had no idea that there was a difference in that regard between -micro and -home brews.
I'll stand by my statements regarding fine Scotch; it runs in the blood.
OTOH, there's a good recipie for some quick-n-dirty stuff to be found near the back of "The Starving Artist's Cookbook", involving a coconut and some rasins. It's quite similar to the classical "mead" it seems.
Thanks for the (legal) info again, could you post any good links for this stuff? I'm using the "Foxfire" books and a few-hundred-year-old diary, trying to re-create things from way back.
I thank the Gods that software isn't so regulated yet, but maybe a few software companies should be IMHO.
Yes, sad to say the the beer situation in the USA probably *is* that bad. The trick is to find a *reliable* importer or a local bar ("pub").
OTOH, there is a newer trend towards micro-brewing here; an individual is allowed up to 200 gallons per year for personal use without papers under Federal law.
Within an hour's drive from any major US city are dozens of for-profit micro's. This is a Good Thing (TM) IMHO. I don't know the exact locations, but I can recommend Buffalo Lager and Oberon. Maybe Google has something on that.
No, no, I'd pick Red Dog for RH and St. Pauli Dark for SuSe. Or Pils.
Mandrake is definitely a Kronenbourg (sp?)
For Gentoo, a decent Scotch would suffice, no ice. Try Glenfiddich or Claynellish 25 year if you can afford a few days of non-functionality.
LFS is in a class by itself; those spirits can run afoul of the BATF and the IRS in the USA. Also, its a lot of work to build a distillery in the woods and move hundreds of pounds of rye. But, at least you get some amazingly good stuff, provided you don't get busted.
However, I must add: I mostly agree with you, and I haven't seen such a fine taste in beer as yours in a good many years. Cheers!
My .edu (ITT Tech) does not allow *any* unknown devices on their campus networks. You can be expelled for trying that. Its landline only, so wireless isn't possible. To do a demo or something, you must have it approved by your instructor; presumably it goes up the authority chain from there.
I actually approve of this, despite trying to demo linux on an NT/2k network. Ultimately, the problem is one of enforcing policy at the machine level. What if there *is* no policy?
How much do you want to bet that NYS can still make phone service more expensive than FLA, regardless of this new tax? Heh, my basic landline deal is $39.95/mo + extra for an unlisted number. The basic bill per month is on the 1st page. The next 4 pages are itemized Tarriffs, State + Federal taxes, maintenance fees, etc. Bringing the total to about $70/mo.
Broadband and VoIP suddenly look very attractive here. Bummer that not everybody has both capabilities at once.
(snaps suspenders, adjusts belt, strokes beard with a thoughtful air.)
Then yawns again, and shambles off down the hall.
Not to be pedantic (I know what the situation is), but since when is the state of Linux dependent on any companies, let alone 2 companies?
Would "enterprise scalability" have been harder without corporate support? Yes, no doubt. What about "secure networks" of all kinds? Yes, that would have been harder. What about good old academic rigor? Well, we needed that perhaps.
So, IMHO the corps are right and justified to be proud; they should advertise it on TV in fact. I personally have no prob with buying their products. But dammit, they shouldn't act like they're the only thing, because those who know this biz know better than that... and they write the salesman's check.
Yes, both Suse and RH have massive resources within the Linux community. Yes, SGI and IBM do too. In this game, minds and hearts count as much as dollars. But let's not be stupid here; it's just a fraction of a very fractured market, overall.
So would the biz types please lose the used-car salesman mentality for the sake of my patience?
just because of huge contract lead times, and this is just simple recognition of the fact. Any number of alternatives could pop up in the meanwhile (before anybody actually does anything), and that possibility needs to be accounted for.
I bet that's what it really is, anyway.
how many "middle men" are in the typical spam food chain, playing the percentages. Extra bonuses for network names, IP addys, hosting providers, etc. And also, why don't these large companies have the balls to just do it directly, themselves? /me thinks they are much like the Wizard of Oz, in this regard.
several times I've been able to make Windows fit into 0 MB.
know your enemy
True, and come to think of it, Haloween is also in October. This is gonna be interesting.
Fair enough, I guess that makes me an "advanced" user. Actually all I do is read the advisories on updates.redhat.com and linuxtoday.com and follow the instructions. I must've missed the part about being for "joe sixpack".
But you still understand why you need to apply a Windows update? Go figure...
/me suspects that most US businesses would *love* to revert to a paper-based system, pre-computer era. Unfortunately, they don't want the drawbacks of it. In other words, there is no free lunch. Bummer.
If you understand *neither* of the above, then maybe that's *why* you have an IT dept., contractor, or whatever?
broad statement, isn't it? (referring to the original article quote).
I only hope that millions of Florida residents just toss it in the garbage along with the rest of the junk mail. In other words, setlement terms as proposed are not acepted or acknowledged.
Maybe it's just business. Not that I disagree with your sentiments, BTW.
Who wants to guess how Microsoft handles (or more likely, is handled by -) my all time favorite alt.sysadmin.recovery
we saw some good sense from an advocacy group around here. As for myself, I'm enjoying the Breakfast of Champions ATM.... another cold one.