Slashdot Mirror
Florida Proposes Taxing Local LANs
Vellmont writes "From the state that brought you the 2000 presidential election debacle, now comes the proposal to tax your LAN. The Orlando Business Journal is reporting that the the state of Florida is thinking about putting a 9% tax on LANs within the state. Exactly what they will be taxing isn't clear, since the tax amounts to 9% of... something. Will taxing the electrical wires within your home be next?"
[FLORIDA]. What more can you say about a state that can't even figure out voting?
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Maybe I have missed somthing but...
Why ?
Phase One: Tax LANs
Phase Two: ???
Phase Three: Profit
Good thing I live up North though.
That's why the DMCA, TCPA, copyright/trademark law, wiretap laws, etc. work perfectly. At least in this case, there is no chance at all that this proposed tax will actually happen. Next they will try to tax people who _think_ about buying something on the net, or ponder putting gas in their cars. Frigging idiots.
(Idiotic laws/implementation is part of why SCO is trying to pull off crazy moves)
--
I hear there are two types of people in Florida... Really really old people, and their parents.
+1 for good karma, love for the DMCA, SCO, and low user id.
From the state that brought you the 2000 presidential election debacle
Would that be Texas?
Are they going to audit anyone with a computer and an email address?
8==8 Bones 8==8
What else can you expect from the state that elected a guy named "Jeb".
If you dont pay the taxes, then you will be violating the DMCA. It's really that simple I would think.
Life is not for the lazy.
Heck, take 100 percent. Anything I can do to help.
Why is it called COMMON sense when so few people have it?
if you tax LAN, you can tax telephone, gas lines, electricity, radio, TV... anything... havent they heard than in the 20th century, it's the state for it's people rather than the people for the sate...?!!!!
> Exactly what they will be taxing isn't clear, since the tax amounts to 9% of... something.
Clearly, they'll charge you 94,371.84 bytes per megabyte.
Presumably you can pay by simply sending them a big e-message.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
no new packets!
peace,
-Grokent
So now I'll have to pay the local government when I send things over my CAT5 cable. So this means that my network connected storage device will be taxed with all transfers.
9% of what? Two computers in an office times 9% doesn't make any sense. Typical legislators - educated way beyond their intelligence.
It sounds like a crappy idea any way you slice it, but from reading the article it looks like they are talking about taxing the purchase of the LAN equipment, rather than taxing/metering of usage itself.
What I don't understand is why this would be treated differently than buying desktop organizers or office chairs.
Morons.
How can they legally tax something that's wholly owned and operated internally by an organization?
In the future, all spacecraft will be made of cheese.
zero.
I believe the tax applies where charges are made for the actual communication, not the equipment itself.
Otherwise I think there'd have to be a nine percent tax on styrofoam cups and a question at the register, "Sir, do you plan on tying a string between two of these so your kids can play in their tree fort?"
Alex.
"We're hoping we get a lot of attention paid to this and understand what impact would it have," he says.
I am thinking that they will have trouble finding any positive responses.
I don't get it.
From the article:
Computer networks would be taxed at that percent on either annual lease payments or depreciation
Shouldn't the author of the article, at least, be the one to RTFA?
according to this article: "Computer networks would be taxed at that percent on either annual lease payments or depreciation."
Why do I h8 apple?
FL should tax the spammers that operate out of 561 -- they operate HUGE networks (assuming you include their wan links and Korean relays) and could be a source of "enlarged" revenue, if you get my drift.
The Lanquisition!
NOBODY expects the LANquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the IRS.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
"They helped overthrow the legitmate government." No, Clinton and Gore are fucking tools. And Bush is starting to get under my skin with the whole Patriot Act crap.
Life is not for the lazy.
The original intent of most communications taxes was to subsidize the government's cost for the publically provided communications infrastructure... if the gov't is going to be supplying me with a free GigaBit ethernet LAN, then sure, they can tax it's use.
Get with the program people... sounds as wacky as Seattle's proposed tax on espresso!
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
How could they possibly tax a LAN? First of all a LAN isn't connected to the internet by itself. Second, firewalls protect the visibility of the LAN. Third, where is the profit. Technically a LAN could be a $2 cross over cable. I have to think maybe someone non-technical came up with this. Perhaps they meant taxing commerical networks or ISPs. But then again, Florida can't even count to ten. Must be in the genes.
This is all just an attempt to take back the coveted title of The Doofus State from California. We reacquired it thanks to our upcoming election. (If Schwarzenegger wins, it's Total Recall, I suppose.)
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
the site's not slow, someone just wanted to see the word "dildo" in a comment.
n/t
Should 95% appear to small, be thankful I don't take it all, 'cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman.
If you drive your car, I'll tax the street, if you take a walk, I'll tax your feet, if you get too cold, I'll tax the heat, if you take the bus, I'll tax your seat, TAXMAN!!!
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
they'll want to tax the AIR that I breathe.. oh, wait.. they already do: http://www.discountmedssupply.com/oxygentherapy/ ~m
"Yes, I have a Disaster Recovery Plan. It's called my Resume"
Informative? Mods smoke crack. YHBT.
Why not tax LANs in Florida? Probably the only two groups that have them are NASA and Disney. Isn't the rest of the state just topless broads, fast cars and slobbering old people.
This is my sig.
if you lan and internal phone system (obviously its another communication network) are seperate will you be taxed twice ?
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
A tax on local local area networks...hm. Thank god they aren't passing a stuttering tax.
They actually flat out stated that they did this just to piss people off so they'd actually say something about it. That's just... yeah.
If it's by the byte, for heavily black/jewish democratic networks 1MB= 1024kB. On republican networks 1MB will = 1000kB.
Oh...and will they count hanging patch cords? What about ones that are plugged in, but haven't fully clicked into the port, and fall out during counting?
God help Florida users if the government learns of half versus full duplex...
Please help metamoderate.
My computer has several buses; since the keyboard and mouse contain microcontrollers that talk over USB, could they be considered a "Network" and thus taxed? How about establishing a PPP connection to, oh, say AOL? Cell phone data?
What the hell?!?
We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked.
Um, can you please check the parent's retyping of the message? Unless Florida is still in the rotary dildo era, I believe the actual article reads rotary dial era.
Well, if the RIAA can discover "virtual" CD burners in raids, maybe they'll tax "virtual ISPs", or "server potential" which would be the result of some weird formula involving CPU types and speeds, RAM complements, etc...
I can see the headlines now. "Joseph McMurphy has been artrested in Altamonte Springs, Florida, for allegedly possessing the equivalent of 6 Internet servers without paying network wiring taxes. This amount, roughly equivalent to 60 small Web sites or 600 personal sites......."
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Before giving kudos to the AC for not Karma Whoring, mods beware. There's at least two items in the text that don't belong:
"Most of Florida communications case law stems from the rotary dildo era," says David Bruns, spokesman for the state Department of Revenue.
The proposed rod pushes the definition of communications systems to include local area networks, or LANs, as well as wide area networks, or WANs, which connect computers across distances.
The original site isn't slowing down, so mod this puppy back down.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Go ahead and imagine what it would be like to have a Beowulf Cluster of those... I dare you... In-fact, Florida dares you!
Business \Busi"ness\, n.;
A scam in which all people involved perceive as beneficial...
Your Rights Online: Florida Proposes Taxing Local LANs
Does this mean I have to buy a new Network NIC?
My lan costs me 0.00$/year. At least that's my story.
They're welcome to 9% of it.
As for the question raised of what their taxing: "Computer networks would be taxed at that percent on either annual lease payments or depreciation," which I presume to mean replacement purchases...
Interestingy, since these comments were posted, the ranking has gone from +2 informative, to +4 informative. Crack indeed.
There are some amazingly difficult terminology problems for them to define:
As if local area networks weren't already taxed enough due to greedy bandwidth-hogging users and their viruses!
If my mechanic told me that, I'd chew him a new one and demand my money back.
"Exactly what they will be taxing isn't clear, since the tax amounts to 9% of... something."
Oh really? The first sentence of second page of article clearly states, "Computer networks would be taxed at that percent on either annual lease payments or depreciation." So they are taxing 9% of capital costs or depreciation.
I would not be surprised to see serious exodus of businesses in the state if this goes into effect. And probably a lot of new growth opportunity along the GA/FL border.
Seems like this would do more harm than good. It might make expansion and/or relocation in other states more cost effective. This means growth that would have been in FL, which in turn would mean additional tax revenue, will likely go elsewhere. And, if it leads to companies downsizing and relocating out of FL, then you end up with a loss of revenue for the state.
Call this the Barney Fife tax -- they'll be shooting themselves in the foot with it.
. 62,400 repetitions make one truth -- Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
Is he a hanging chad? A dimpled chad? Oh! Oh! The humor! ;)
Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all we>SPLUThey!
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
I'm impressed.
Treehugger? Treehugger... Treehugger!
home be next?
Well lets see, I pay tax on my telephone bills, on my power bill, on my gas bill. I pay it on any wires I buy to install in my house and I pay tax on my house itself. What isn't taxed within my house?
0xfeedface
Basically, 9% packet loss?
rotary dildo, that's fucking GOLD.
N/T
What a great way to encourage businesses to setup shop in your state! I'm sure companies will flock to Florida now.
...right after I finish writing one for SCO.
It's REALLY the RIAA wanting more money for MP3's which were NO DOUBT illegally obtained. And besides, what would people send across LANs besides MP3's?!? Is there ever a bad time for pudding? ... Well? ... IS there???
The power of Christ compiles you.
A Random Blog
Wha'?! It's what?
You know what?
"if you tax LAN, you can tax telephone, gas lines, electricity, radio, TV... anything... havent they heard than in the 20th century, it's the state for it's people rather than the people for the sate...?!!!!" Ummmmm... They tax telephone... and gas lines... and electricity... and I don't really understand how you propose they have a state for the people with no damn money...
Actually, as it turns out, because of some voting confusion, for every LAN installation, you'll be expected to pay approximately 9% of Pat Buchanan to the state of Florida. Pat Buchanan could not be reached for comment.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
First Falcon-1 to orbit, then Falcon-9. Then I can die a happy man.
As somebody else stated, does this mean that buying any computer with an RJ45 connector will trigger a 9% sales tax? This is supposed to be a reform of Florida communications tax structure; they're probably trying to close up a tax loophole involving VoIP, but it sounds like they have DMCA-itis.
Hamster
oh wait....no it doesn't
remind me to fill out form 70-34-w6 next time I set up a LAN party to be sure I give some more of my hard earned money to the same people who brought you "election 2000"
What else would you expect from the state shaped like a dick?
Well, maybe someone should start collecting taxes on incompetency. I'm sure that'll bring in a small chunk of change...
"We're hoping we get a lot of attention paid to this and understand what impact would it have," he says.
$$$$LOBBY$$$$$$
I'm told the new touch tone dildos are much better.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Exactly how can they regulate this? While it may be true that most offices have a LAN, what about the average home? "What LAN? I don't have a LAN? Honey, have you seen the LAN..? Nope, no LANs around here - I think Bob down the street has one." Additionally, how are they going to audit wireless networks? Ad-hoc ones? Do you get taxed when you go stumbling on your neighbors?
Hmmm...
I've pretty much grown use to shite like this from our legislature. When they're not too busy cutting money from education or giving HMO's a get-out-of-lawsuit-free card, they occasionally manage to do something I find surprising and refreshing, but no less assinine.
I think this law is fine, but I say reverse it: instead of levying a tax on private companies for their LANs, how about they levy a tax on themselves for every piece of copper and fiber in the state, county, and city government networks. Then they should take that money and invest it in supporting the bits of Florida's economy that aren't tourism or hospitality, and see how that works out.
Fucktards.
Yes, my only tool is a hammer. And you're starting to look like a nail.
Once the politicians find out their interior designers just outfitted their M$15 mansions with cat5 they will be kicking this to the curb. Simply moronic ...
Are those like Automatic ATM Machines?
If as it appears the tax is on "LAN equipment" then companies might decide to not use dedicated routing/firewall hardware because that just can't be called anything but LAN equipment. But that new general purpose PC they bought which couldn't be considered dedicated LAN hardware, popped 2 LAN cards in and just happened to install Linux and a firewall on would work just fine in its place...
Florida isn't supposed to have people living here. It's supposed to be a tourist place.
Well... Someone voted for these guys to be there and do that.
Ah, and your taxes pay their salaries. That's the bad part of it.
What I dont understand is how they are attempting to tax a network that is inside the building.
They dont tax phone systems down there do they?
Does that mean there will be no tax on LAN Equipments? Switches and such because they are now being taxed under this law? Are the SysAdmins involved, If you work as a Sysadmin you know that your just a living part of your network, I cant be the only one that is attached to mine 24/7.
Too many questions, not enough answers.
Besides, Florida has alot of older people when it comes time to vote on the issue how many seniors really know what a LAN is? They barley know what a car is (let alone know how to drive it!!!)
Funny, I could swear it was businesses moving to other states...
AC comments get piped to
This is what happens when you put revenue collection into the hands of bureaucrats.
This was one of the points that the founders had in making the House of Representatives be responsible for all government spending - ie, they would have to answer to voters for their idiocy.
Too bad we are all such idiots we can't make heads or tails of the crap they do up there.
Stuff like this makes me lose hope in us as a country. What jerk would think that taxing networks would be a positive thing? Taxes are supposed to do two things - raise revenue and encourage behaviors that the government deems laudable. Hence the presence of things like tariffs to protect domestic industry, and tax benefits for home ownership and having children, because the government wants us all to be fruitful and multiply.
So what does a LAN tax do, exactly? Think it out...
Utter morons.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Here's why you'll start seeing more crazy-sounding initiatives like this "lan tax":
1. Outsourcing jobs overseas = massive amounts of lost taxes for USA. Since IT jobs were hit the hardest and California was the hottest IT area, it doesn't take a genius to figure out one substantial reason why they're in a budget crisis (which is a taste of things to come for our federal budget).
2. Huge tax cuts without requirements on how it should be spent = lost tax revenues that might not be spent at all or spent in ways that improve the economy. This is kinda like giving a total stranger $100K and expecting him to spend it in ways that help you while not giving him any expectations on how to spend it (i.e. he can spend it all on building offshore infrastructure to move even more US jobs overseas!).
3. Our president's failure to build consensus in the UN to attack Iraq and then being exposed for making false justification statements means that other countries are less willing to send their young soldiers to die in Iraq. This means more of OUR taxes going to pay for this ongoing fiasco which will likely INCREASE the odds of future terrorist attacks & boycotts against US-made products.
4. and so on including our mounting budget deficit which is like running up a huge credit card bill with mounting interest that YOU and I must pay later with...you guessed it--more freaking taxes than EVER given the aging demographics of babyboomers and their impact on social security, medicare and reduced collection of income taxes from them as they retire.
NOTE: $100K is roughly how much VP. Cheney will save in taxes in one year due to the Bush tax cuts. Since that money has to come from somewhere, many of our brave soldiers sacrificing their lives in Iraq will receive PAY CUTS of around $200/month.
Don't be surprised if you find important services like public schools and homeland security facing massive budget cuts in the future--it doesn't HAVE to happen but I don't see a way out if we continue managing our government in the most idiotic way I've seen in decades.
I feel sorry for the poor soul who'll get elected as our president next because he's gonna have an almost impossible task on his hands (he'll need to take massive and very unpopular action to fix this mess being created by the current politicians).
After one business refused to pay: ...Come out with your WANS up!!!
Ok, so it wasn't that funny...
Hmmm...
The tax would be payable on the actual cost of operating and maintaining the system, which DOR defines as including the following:
. . .
Taxes, licensing, and franchising costs
It would in fact appear that at least part of this tax is derived from the amount you pay in taxes.
Of course I always thought it worked the other way around, with the goverment taxing you on a service based on how much it cost them to run it, but this way is so much more cost effective, with the government not actually having to provide a service before taking your money.
That brings them under the purview of the proposed rule, which includes computer networks as "substitute communications systems" -- subject to a 9.17 percent state tax, plus local option taxes
Oh god. If they extend this to Lan Parties (undoubtly everyone at LAN Parties uses a network as "substitute communications systems") it would be almost as bad as that FAT PEOPLE TAX they want to pass up here in NY.
I'll be routing 9% of my packets to Florida Department of Revenue from now on. You should too.
The goverment taxing itself? Well, genius, where do you thing the goverment will get the money to pay for it? Thats right! They will raise other taxes to pay it.
Does anyone in Florida EVERY think before they vote/make a political proposal?
It sounds to me like they could only tax those who are claiming the lease payment or depreciation of computers and network equipment on their tax. They wouldn't be able to do it any other way. Another way of saying it would be that you can only claim 91% of the lease payments or depreciation of your computers and network equipment.
... we once had a thing called Window Tax and people predictably bricked up their windows, you can still see remnants of this today in old houses, incidentally it replaced "Hearth Tax".
I'm sure the irony of taxing windows isn't lost on you.
now, then ... what exactly is "LAN equipment"?
cabling?
would any PC count? would there be exceptions for stand-alone PCs?
how about wireless LANs?
i guess any hand-held with wireless capabilities would be subject, too, then, huh?
this would be nightmarish for the average consumer to figure out!
once they see how onerous this would be, I suspect that corporate interests would put the kibosh on this...
mmm... yeah... You see, we're putting the cover sheets on all TPS reports now before they go out...
It seems that Seattle is considering a tax on expresso.
Yeah, because coffee drinkers should pay extra for preschool!
According to the article, "Computer networks would be taxed at that percent on either annual lease payments or depreciation."
They meant to enact a new property tax, i.e., a tax on land, but somebody dropped the 'd'.
Of course, another sense of property taxation would be pretty hard on enterprise Java developers.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
you can pass the crack pipe back to SCO now.
It would only be a business tax, consumers wouldn't have to figure it out.
What constitutes a LAN that they are trying to tax? If I have a Bluetooth-enabled cell phone that communicates with my computer, is there a tax on that too? If they tax 802.11b/g, how about 2.4 GHz cordless phones operating on the same band? My computer gets its IP address via DHCP from my cable modem. Is this a local area network?
Furthermore, how would this work in practice? Would you have auditing commissions travelling from house to house inspecting crawlspaces for 3Com switches? Would you have to have a license to own networking equipment, like a TV license in the UK? What would the penalty be for operating a LAN without a license? They justify this as "taxing other forms of communication." Are they going to charge a 9% tax on children's walkie-talkies too? How about taxing the morons with their Nextel 2-way radios in a movie theater? Maybe that wouldn't be so terrible.
Unless the exact devices to be taxed are made insidiously clear, this could be a great way to ensure that arbitrary people are taxed on arbitrary things. Democrats especially.
You know, why doesn't government ever get labeled as "big" or "greedy" as profiteering corps do, when government is the BIGGEST corporation of them all, and the ONLY one (well, the RIAA is close now) that has the power to use guns to enforce it's will...
Everyone who has two PC's sharing internet from a router has a LAN and would be subject to tax.
Taxation that would be COMPLETELY unjustifiable. How can PRIVATE infrastructure that government has no role in creating or maintaining be justifiably taxed?! That I've ALREADY paid tax on, for the income that BOUGHT the equipment, and then on the router, NICs, switch and cabling when I purchased them?
If this flies, don't think that other tax-hungry states, like WV or KY (where I work and live) won't follow suit. At home here, I have a LAN infrastructure that rivals most small businesses... It seems unfair to tax me because of my expertise in creating it!
So, what will happen? Government revenue agents busting down doors looking for CAT 5 cable and 802.11 antennas?
But then, don't sucessful people have broadband and home LANs? Taxation is all about punishing (discouraging) success to feed failure, I guess.
Now the geeks have been targeted.
Corporatism != Free Market
Well folks just imagine what Jeb Bush will do for US when it is his turn to be President. Be Paranoid ... Be vary Paranoid, GW Bush has already brought us ... PA-1&2, and many other "things to come" ... shades of 1939.
HAVE FUN
OldHawk777
Reality is a self-induced hallucination.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
Florida, hey thats where all the CUBANS live
Try Google:-
BAY OF PIGS
(SWIM IN IT FAT YANK)
HAHA NOW "SUE" McDonnalds
you fucking fat twat
as a florida native (yes, one of three) i am here to set the record straight. ever since the punchcard debacle, my poor home state has been slandered for every bad thought, let alone the bungles in our government. truth be told, slashdot only gets the funniest of these stories, but there are more serious problems in our government, which registered voters have not been able to correct with our plebicites.
for every silly story about taxing LANs, there's a serious story about public fraud, corruption or negligence. for example, the department of children and families lost over 400 children in the last four years! they were pleased to announce three months later that they found 75% of them. a dismal record to be sure. even worse are the cases where children were lost and turned up dead. these are just a few of the more serious matters occurning in this state today, but they are just symptoms.
i know this isn't a political forum. but i would like to ask for serious comments about possible solutions. if your state government is so wonderful, where is it that you find qualified, bonafide normal and caring folks to fill government jobs and elected positions?
is anyone here holding an elected position and not accused of fraud that would like to comment? anyone who has run for office?
personally, i think that we have reached a point where our media outlets are so rapacious over their stories that they will destroy any decent person with any sort of past or youthful indescretions (unless they are named Bush). it is the number one reason why i would prefer not to step into any election. what do you think??????
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
The statement about depreciation etc. is still ambiguous. So, let's look at what they could possibly propose to tax by:
1. The hardware
We already do this. It's called sales tax.
2. Per byte
Asinine, and only possible with businesses, etc. They could never keep track of home users, etc.
Plus, this brings up the question, "If they can tax me for using the hardware that is already mine, couldn't they tax me for doing *anything* with *anything* that I own?"
Also, they mentioned 9%. I dunno about you, but MY bytes cost me -$100. Now they owe ME $9 per byte.
3. At a fixed rate, as a service.
Wait... wait for it... nope, this LAN still appears to be under MY ownership. Nice try, guys.
The article mentioned that they released this story to get people's reactions. Did they seriously just FORGET to sit down for a second, think about it, and then decide that NO ONE would agree that it would be a good idea?
The power of Christ compiles you.
A Random Blog
brings them under the purview of the proposed rule, which includes computer networks as "substitute communications systems"
If I read this right, it would seem that if I install two tin cans and a string, they can tax it. If I hire 500 undocumented Mexicans and have them run the stairs with floppy disks, they can tax it. If two women meet at the mall and exchange gosip, they can tax it. Next thing you know, they'll be taking taxes out of our pay before they give us our checks.
. .
But a dose of reality here, no one is going to be taxing home or corporate lans. The author of the story failed to mention that this tax is on phone companies that are switching to private lans to route their calls. This is what happens when reporters forget to include the whole truth in their stories. And the Orlando Sentinel is full of this type of reporting.... nuff said.
This reminds me of the bizarre logic that was used by advocates of the 'Intangibles' tax we collect here in KS. They said that if you invested your money in farm land
you'd pay property taxes on it, but if you just put it in the bank and 'clipped coupons' you don't pay them, so it's only fair to tax intangibles too.This reasoning completely ignores the fact that the capital that your investment goes to is already subject to property tax, and taxing intanbibles qua intangibles is double taxation, just as taxing computer networks is as well.
Before anyone clicks on the Reply to This link to pipe up that it's double taxation on the telcos too... yes, it is. It's an extra tax they pay in exchange for having a government-mandated monopoly. They pass that tax along to their captive customer base, which is oblivious to the fact that businesses don't pay taxes, they collect them.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
If it moves, tax it.
If it still moves, regulate it.
If it stops moving, subsidize it.
Ronald Reagan
Shouldn't at least the poster have read the article???
9% of all electrons must be sent to the Govt.?
or 9% of packets perhaps!
9% of your cables!
is that you?
(I've just finished reading Stupid White Men)
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
...which includes computer networks as "substitute communications systems" -- subject to a 9.17 percent state tax, plus local option taxes...
How does a LAN qualify as a "substitute communication system?" And don't WANs already use existing communication systems - that are already subject to taxation?
What's next, taxing inter-office mail to cover increasing gas prices? How about two cans and a string? Smoke signals??
Dave Barry - Forget president, run for govenor, or I will kill this defenseless toilet.
Businesses in Florida just need to use wireless lans to avoid state tax. Only the Federal .gov can tax wireless transmissions unless there is a law passed by congress.
they should tax extension cords too
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
I'll gladly send all my spam and virii/worms to florida to pay the tax.
it's obvious they are trying to take the title of "America's Nuttiest State" back from California. they may win.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Brings a whole new meaning to the term pay packet
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
Because it reduces technology in the hands of the general public, homes, and society and promotes more reactionary totalitarian supporting illiteracy that supports getting idiots elected by just using media magic for image and sound bytes.
There is always a good religiously and politically logical reason that justifies enhancing stupidity in society and government.
OldHawk777
Reality is a self-induced hallucination.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
Hmm. If you read the second page of the article you will learn that the tax is on...
- Lease payments for leased network equipment.
- Depreciation on purchased network equipment.
This brings up an interesting point. Home users may not be affected. If one does not claim depreciation for the equipment, then one can't be taxed on it, I would think. I am not a tax attorney.My LAN is mine... I bought it, I pay for the juice to run it, and I administer all the boxen on it myself. Where the hell does the state get off coming into my home and taxing some wires that I use to move my data around? And at a whopping 15%???
I'm not using VOIP, I'm not using it to generate electricity, or provide free sewage service to my neighbors... nothing that would chisel the state out of one red cent.
Great way to strangle what's left of the digital economy. This brings back shades of the luxury tax that put so many Florida boat builders out of business.
This is truly govt. greed at its finest... my legislators will be hearing about this one, FOR SURE.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Huge tax cuts without requirements on how it should be spent = lost tax revenues that might not be spent at all or spent in ways that improve the economy. This is kinda like giving a total stranger $100K and expecting him to spend it in ways that help you while not giving him any expectations on how to spend it
Good point. The only solution is a 100 per cent flat tax rate. Clearly, the only organization that can spend money wisely is the government.
While we're at it, if we can't trust the people to spend money wisely, why can we trust them to pick the government? We should also close the "voting loophole".
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
I, personally, would be surprised if this fell in the lap of the Legislature. Businesses will never allow this to happen. Why do they have the right to tax private communications? Are they going to put extra tax on legal pads and pens next?
www.sitetronics.com/wordpress
Good grief man! Sounds like the people in Florida need to have a recall like California...
But, the recall votes would probably be miscounted.
a tax on passing notes in class.
.I didn't say that.
Really, it amounts to the same thing. LAN communications are private internal affairs with the entire infrastructure payed for and supported by the owner. Taxes are already payed on the power to run them and on whatever outside connections they rely on fully comensurrate with actual usage.
This like saying that if you put an internal memo if a drop tube down to the basement mailroom you owe the Post Office a stamp.
Oh, wait. .
KFG
"Seems like this would do more harm than good. It might make expansion and/or relocation in other states more cost effective. This means growth that would have been in FL, which in turn would mean additional tax revenue, will likely go elsewhere. And, if it leads to companies downsizing and relocating out of FL, then you end up with a loss of revenue for the state."
Seems to me that Florida could kiss ANY SORT OF IT industrial base that it has goodbye...
As well as any large office...
As well as desirable population with IT skills who'd leave with them...
Is that possibility worth the revenue this tax might provide?
You know, Nielsen is located in Florida. I have a friend who used to work in IT for them. They have a HUGE network.
You know, I bet 49 other states would fall all over themselves to offer them a new home...
Corporatism != Free Market
Homer staring at a map of the U.S.:
... America's whang"
"Florida
There are several Air Force bases in Florida, I wonder how they expect to get those taxed?
Has anyone thought about how much this will cost Disney? They _may_ have the largest network in Florida. They also bring in quite a bit of money in to the state (tourist trap). Given the fact that Disney generally grabs every penny it can, I am thinking they will use the fact that Disney world is the biggest money maker for the state and say to the government, "No."
Never thought I would be rooting for Disney, but in this case I am. I would say there is nothing to fear. But that is just my view, which I am told is usually out of sync with the real world.
Someone watched Sealab 2021 last night.....
,br>
I feel sorry for the poor soul who'll get elected as our president next because he's gonna have an almost impossible task on his hands (he'll need to take massive and very unpopular action to fix this mess being created by the current politicians).
Well, he could always try being honest, put Shrub in prison for treason and bill Asshat for all the money he spent covering up a statue since he has the maturity of a thirteen year old. That should help his popularity enormously.
...it's the first person who actual pointed out what's "being taxed."
Seriously folks, didn't a lot of tea get tossed into Boston Harbor because of crap like this?
Hint: Stop voting for the goons that are doing this stuff - take back your government from these idiots. Start locally and the trend will expand nationally - eventually.
It does not matter what you do, it's wrong.
With all the tragic consequences of deregulation all around us, how can anyone here at slashdot think keeping that untaxed business communication is a good idea?
There is money involved here and we all know what that does. The government has a right control people involved in economic issues.
These tax dollars will be used for good causes. The nation comes first, the interest of greedy people, second.
Instead of doing the research to see whether this is a good idea or not, just write the legislation and start it through the process, and let the people who are about to get hosed do the legwork for you.
Can anyone here suggest a state where the legislators aren't complete morons? I can have my stuff packed and be there within 48 hours.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
then the spammers would have to relocate out of Florida... Tax on spam sent. That would be popular.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
...are belong to us.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
RECALL process...
Morons, when are they going to understand the bubble is gone?
Worse, how are they going to find your LAN? Perhaps a business only tax.
What if its all wireless? Where does on mans LAN start and another ends?
Blogging because I can...
Read the article. It says that the tax will apply to the lease payments (if the system is not owned) or the depreciation amount.
Download Linux ISOs in 5 minutes using LoRS Tools available at http://loci.cs.utk.edu
Too late, lantax.com is already registered. However, .net and .org are still up for grabs.
Registrant:
Atlantax Systems Inc (LANTAX-DOM)
4360 Chamblee Dunwoody Rd.
Suite 550
Atlanta, GA 30341
US
Domain Name: LANTAX.COM
Administrative Contact:
ATLANTAX SYSTEMS, INC. (AS2472-ORG) hermant@atlantax.com
4360 CHAMBLEE DUNWOODY RD STE 550
ATLANTA, GA 30341-1055
US
770 458 1050 fax: 770 455 6239
Technical Contact:
Network Solutions, Inc. (HOST-ORG) customerservice@networksolutions.com
21355 Ridgetop Circle
Dulles, VA 20166
US
1-888-642-9675 fax: 123 123 1234
Record expires on 21-Sep-2005.
Record created on 21-Sep-1999.
Database last updated on 25-Aug-2003 20:25:26 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS19.WORLDNIC.COM 216.168.225.149
NS20.WORLDNIC.COM 216.168.225.150
I'm going to use WLAN from now on... reduce the amount of cabling required and the tax.
...too many tech. companies in Florida, so many that they want to prevent new companies to bring their business to the state.
Great idea.
Don't be so quick to dismiss all regulations as unnecessary interference. Some are nothing but lobbyists freezing out the competition, but others addressed real problems.
The bottom line is if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and is being baked with an orange glaze and served to hungry diners, it's a duck. Paypal is a bank and the sooner it is treated as one the better off everyone will be -- too many people have been burned by arbitrary and opaque dispute resolution policies. VoIP that replaces conventional phone service *is* phone service and the users need to have the same protections (e.g., against unauthorized wiretaps, arbitrary charge dispute resolutions, etc.) as regular phone service users, etc.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
We prefer armpit.
Posted from a location close enough to Boca Raton to smell it.
Any preoccupation with ideas of what is right or wrong in conduct shows an arrested intellectual development. (Wilde)
1. This has been happening for YEARS in every other segment of the economy? Why should IT jobs be the one to not go next? Once saw a sign at a buffet 'do not let your eyes be bigger than your stomach' California did JUST that.
2. Thank you for saying the goverment can spend *MY* money better than me. Its *MY* money that goes for those taxes. It never was the goverments in the first place. *I* am the one that earned it NOT them. I know dozens of people that used that money for exactly what it was put forth for, their children. They bought them new computers, cloths, and other things. All because they got 600 bucks they spent 1500 bucks. Oh yes that SLOWED the economy way down didnt it. Belive it or not the stock market is not the only indicator of what its like. 98-99 were a economic anomoly. The market is snapping back to where it should be. It is almost there if not already. Before the '.com bubble' unenployment was at 5-6%, and that was under your beloved clinton. He set in motion some of the largest company catastrophies EVER. By letting the SEC just ignor out and out fraud.
3. We set into motion that fiasco. We should end it. Show some responsiblity. All because we wanted some missle bases in Iran. When Iran went, Iraq helped us out. When we should have told them to get bent.
4. Do you know ANYTHING about economics? Did you know that money is actually keeping our economy afloat? Its called macro economics buddy. It helps smooth out the rough spots in the economy. When times are good we pay down. When times are bad we borrow money. If they had not borrowed that money what do you think this recession would have been really like? It would have been huge. There is only one way to get a balanced budget. That is to write your senator and tell him so. Everyone do it right now, it is a good thing to have.
Note: 500-1000 dollars for a 4 person family is HUGE. It means the dfference between buying new cloths or just using the wornout ones from last year.
Massive cuts are the ONLY way to balance the budget. The goverment grows at 4% instead of 8% and they call it a budget cut. That is double talk. Do not let them fool you into thinking they are the only ones that can help you. When was the last time you REALLY got help from the goverment? Those 'social' programs are a sham. They are so full of bored people that could care less, and full of such accounting fraud it would make enron look like econ 101. I see a VERY different goverment than you. They need less money. But he with the printers can make more...
See the real problem? You want to give them more money. If they do not get it they will make it up. They will do it the whole time saying its 'for the children'. Meanwhile they are PISSING money away.
Cisco systems will lobby against this .
.
Hopefully their past bribes for things like the H1-b visa
will hold enough clout to keep this from coming about
Peace,
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
adding your sig to a post manually, as well as including your regular sig (which basically says the same thing) in a post is not only redundant, it is redundant.
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
It's incredible, politicians will always try to come up with creative, yet convoluted ways of taxing their constituency. But they never stop for one millisecond to consider ways of CUTTING taxes.
HEY look at all these other fun filled taxes the state of Florida has!
Check the ZIP file links at the bottom of this report for the actuall bill here, it actually describe the insanity and absent mindeness of the beauricrates that are proposing these laws. Is this really real???
This is really close to taxing the PBX in a business. I don't see how this is something you can easily tax.
They claim they want to tax be 9% of the deperciation or 9% of the lease payments. This just does not seem at all business friendly.
Time to give up the LAN and get printers for everyone and dialup connections.
I hope that these people get an education in how lopsided this would be for some comanies, mainly hi tech. This is the ideal way to drive hi tech out of a state.
The really bummer is that I just moved to Florida.
-- James Dornan
-- Prepared at the direction of, or to be sent to Legal Counsel, in anticipation of litigation. Attorney Client Pri
He was born in New Haven, Connecticut.
I need to turn this into a bumpersticker.
My LAN voted (repeatedly) in the last Florida election, so I guess it is only fair that it pay taxes.
Someday a Slashdot ID of 177180 will mean something.
going to make a witty joke about them not taxing the illegal drugs I deal from my home, but then thought better of it, lest some yay-hoo DEA agent reading this thinks I'm serious.
Here's why you'll start seeing more crazy-sounding initiatives like this "lan tax":
Didn't Vice President Gore support a telecommunications tax? And didn't several states want to tax internet commerce during the dot-com boom of the late 1990s?
This is kinda like giving a total stranger $100K and expecting him to spend it in ways that help you while not giving him any expectations on how to spend it
So taking less money from taxpayers is the same as giving it to strangers? Funny -- I thought paying taxes was more like giving money to strangers.
many of our brave soldiers sacrificing their lives in Iraq will receive PAY CUTS of around $200/month.
After the Wall Street Journal cited a story about the $200 pay cut, printed this clarification:
Many readers also pointed out that in addition to the $6,000 death benefit for families of servicemen killed in action, the Department of Veterans Affairs also offers low-cost Servicemembers' Group Life Insurance, which pays even if a soldier or veteran dies while not on duty.
Note the "tax free status," which is like giving money to a rich stranger.
Don't be surprised if you find import
Florida wont have to worry about this too much longer if they keep this kind of garbage up. If this passes, I would imagine no new businesses of decent size would set up shop in Florida if it can be helped, and those that are already there, will soon be looking for ways to move to a sane state. Those that don't move will just pass on the extra cost to their customers, which I'm sure will please all those Floridians
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
I thought sending our intern to Fry's Electronics to pick up UDP Packets was funny. They may actually tax for those now and we may have to actually buy them! AAHHHH! (Oh, best/worse part is his car broke down on the way there... Poor guy.. hehe)
rich engineer, really kept his family fed.
Then one day he was shooting at some Dudes,
and up through the ground come a bubbling crude.
Terrorists that is, hated Liberty.
Well the first thing you know, old Jeb's a trillionaire,
Kinfolk ask, "Shell corporation where?"
Said Carlyle's the place we wanna be!
So they loaded up the Press, and the set up in DC.
White House, that is.
Saudi Princes, Parliamentary Whores.
[Lengthy banjo duet]
.. it's not a local area network, it's just a really complex peer to peer protocol!
"Derp de derp."
Why don't they just make a new "F U" tax. They can increase it whenever they like, however much they like. This way, instead of taxing each little thing, they can just increase the "F U" tax. They could probably throw away thousands upon thousands of pages of tax code.
hard core geek-ware
Florida's attempt to upstage California's ongoing recall circus. I knew they'd try to get the spotlight back somehow...
Linksys Broadband Router $99.99
Linksys NIC cards ($34.99 X 4) 139.96
Linksys PCMCIA card $49.99
Linksys Workgroup Hub $75.00
Slimmp3 player $250.00
Cables (approx) $75.00
-----------------------
Equipment total $689.94
So if the state were to tax my modest home LAN at 10%, I'm looking at approx $70 a year. That's insanity.
But where does the definition of LAN stop? Are my actual computers considered to be part of the LAN? In the case of my awesome slimmp3 player, is my stereo now part of my LAN?
What's gonna happen in a couple of years when my fridge, toaster oven and dishwasher are all on the network? Will I pay LAN tax on them too? Where does it end?
wbs.
Huh?
There are a great many businesses with LANs in FL that add value to the state but are only located there because they consider FL convenient.The tax is not convenient, and the paperwork will be worse.
They'll probably lose more in general taxes than the LAN tax will bring.
Let's hope this passes. We need a few bad examples to scare other governments into finding other things to regulate.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Now it's IT Company story time! Everyone gather 'round! Ready? Once upon a time, a huge IT company by the name of IBM opened an office in Boca Raton, Florida. The ever-money hungry Floridian politicians, sensing a windfall, quickly went to work to enact legislation allowing the state of Florida to tax IBM's entire profits because they had a presense in Florida. IBM said "Screw you guys, we're going North!" The legislation was quickly dropped after that, but IBM held a grudge after that and eventually closed the IBM Boca plant (Which was by far the most beautiful one I've worked at to date) in the mid 90's, costing thousands of jobs in the Boca Raton area. The moral of this story is that you can try to fix something after you've broken it, but it probably won't do much good in the long run.
Oh yeah and a while back they also played the most self-rightious and annoying commercial about how if you went out of state and bought something, you owed Florida sales tax on it. So I'd like to send mad propz out to the penis of the country.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Here's what we all can do:
1. If you live in Florida, locate your state representative.
2. Contact s/he once each via email, fax, and telephone. Lodge your dissatisfaction with this particular legislation.
3. Channel your rage into being an active participant in your democracy. WAKE UP AMERICA.
If you live outside of Florida, do the same thing but tell them how you feel about technoogy legislation in general.
Good thing I'm using a wide-area LAN!
I've gone on in great detail about Taxylvanias taxation of everything that moves, breathes, blinks, clicks, pops, shimmies, shakes, and bounces.
Hey, politicians, the cluephone is ringing, it's THE ECONOMY calling, it says you're taxing it to death and wants you to stop!
Who the fuck to they think they are? As people trying to make a living, we're getting hit from 10 different sides by various levels of government invading our private lives 'for our own good.'
I pay way over half my income in various taxes.. it's disgusting...
FL is still better than PA...
If I lived in Florida, not only would I stop buying my network hardware locally, I'd stop buying a lot of other computer-related stuff locally too. After all, if I'm already driving to Georgia for a NIC, why not buy the motherboard and all other bits & pieces that make up a PC while I'm there?
Chip H.
They already tax the material with which one makes a LAN and the service to provide internet to that LAN; sheesh!
(P.S. Why on earth is there an ad for Windoze 2003 at the top of my Slashdot?!?!?)
1. This has been happening for YEARS in every other segment of the economy? Why should IT jobs be the one to not go next? Once saw a sign at a buffet 'do not let your eyes be bigger than your stomach' California did JUST that.
Dear Sir:
If you are going to comment on issues, it would be best to be at least passibly informed on them. Enron's illegal manipulation of the energy market was not done at the request of any Californian official.
Now it is true that the foolish privitization which made this plundering of the state treasury possible was done by Californian officials. And Gov. Davis bears a clear share of the responsibility for this. It's also true that he neither instigated it nor benefitted from it. It was done by a group of Republican legislators (and the then Gov.? I can't remember) ostensibly on ideological grounds that private industry was always more efficient than public industry, ignoring all of the economic studies that showed that this was so only in a competitive market where there was a relatively low cost of entry.
More explicit data can be furnished if you are interested. But I'd need to look it up, and I suspect you of being a troll.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Ugh! this is just taxation without representation. There're just asking for another Boston LAN party.. err tea party!
While the article only mentions businesses, how long do you think before they decide that home networks also fall under this unclear provision. I suppose it'll be like Neuromancer where there will be "illegal" connections and "jacking in" doesn't mean staying home to watch porn.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
So, if I've got a 100Mbit network, I've got to send 9Mbit to the state of Florida? Is it ok if those bits are random, or do they have to be 9% of my actual LAN data?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
I live in FL and you have to understand the political climate. This is a state with no (state) income tax. The people in office got there by going with the flow. They will tax a business a lot faster than the general populous. Like the hospitality tax. This is due to the tourist industry basically along w/ the lottery paying the the state enough money to not have to levy a state income tax. Not the brightest idea (taxing a lan?!?) but at least it's not law yet.
Keep digging, There's hole here some where!
The article makes it clear it's about taxing business LANs, not private, personal LANs.
When did they give HMO's a get-out-of-lawsuit free card? If you're referring to the most-recent legislation, that was about giving Florida doctors some relief (I should know, I am an ER doc in Florida). They actually capped my liability, which is a welcome relief... ER docs get sued often, and I can't remember the last time one of my colleagues or friends got involved in an ER case that had real merit. I'm sorry to say, but most malpractice lawsuits are for stuff that's clearly objectively reasonable care, which is probably why doctors prevail in almost 90% of those cases. Those numbers should tell you something...
HMOs, however, have had protection from lawsuits for years... it's a federal law called ERISA, and it prevents pension plans, etc from being emptied by lawsuits. Since Health Insurance is considered an employee benefit (like a pension), it creates a very effective shield against litigation.
Were you referring to some other legislation that I'm unaware of?
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Don't be surprised if we see:
- a MIPS tax, socking it to the rich suckers who can afford that top-of-the-line processor (sort of a PC SUV tax)
That would reinvent Bracket creep:
Remember that the progressive income tax was pushed through on the "soak the rich" principle.
At first there was a floor below which you didn't pay, so only the rich pay any income tax. Then brackets were invented, so only the rich would pay killer rates but the Fed would tax the middle class a little bit, too.
But then the government started running the printing presses to pay for its programs by inflating the currency. And gradually a dollar would buy progressively less. But there were progressively more of 'em circulating. So you got a "raise" that put you back where you were, with more dollars but about the same purchasing power.
Except it wasn't, really. Because the tax brackets were denominated in dollars, with no index to inflation. So middle income, and then lower income, and pretty soon just about any above-the-poverty-line income was pushed into those "soak the rich" tax brackets.
Oops!
Your (tongue-in-cheek) proposal would do the same, thanks to Moore's Law inflation of CPU speed. (Run the same apps on a newer machine and the processor just spins more in the idle loop - but you pay for that spin.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
TAX MY COCK!
In Orange County, the local tax typically runs between 5.5 percent and 6.5 percent. That would bring the total tax to between 14-15 percent.
So what sort of local network projects are they going to supplement with a LAN tax? Taxes are generally related to what they are taxing (gas tax for roads and/or pollution, Smoking Tax for Anti Smoking, Communications tax for infrastructure, etc.) So if the isolated LANs are considered "substitute communications systems" what will the government provide to "LAN tax" payers that improve or better regulate their LANs???
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
what's the annual depreciation on two cans with a string tied between? Wouldn't we have a lot better laws if there was some "enforcibility" criteria they had to meet before they were passed?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
clearly has no sense of American history
What about my Personal Area Net/work?
Is that the government will simply spend that money and want more. Never, ever vote for a new tax that will "cover our budget deficit and bring us back into the black" because the politicians will simply spend it, make it a "given" part of the revenue, then they'll go trolling for another new tax.
William Gladstone, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was invited to witness a demonstration of Faraday's electrical equipment. Gladstone asked, "This is quite interesting, Faraday, but of what practical worth is it?" Faraday replied, "One day, sir, you may tax it."
Finally someone says it. California is hemorrhaging cash because the state government overspends grossly. They need to cut the B.S. social programs that do squat.
As you said, the only way the government seems to help me is that they keep the roads intact (that one may be arguable) around here. Other than that they don't really seem to do all to much.
Unfortunately, none of the "big" recall candidates here in California seem to want to address the issue that the state spends too much. Once again, only certain third parties are coming out telling the truth that we spend more than we should be.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Seriously though, since all of it wasn't taxed enough already? Wonder how they would tax a large, short-term lan.
address the differences in VoIP and dont' make it just another phone line.
Photos.
For those that don't read the article:
"Computer networks would be taxed at that percent on either annual lease payments or depreciation."
How to get around the law if it is lease based: Run a second company that provides computers to the main company at a lease of 1 cent a month/computer. The second company will run at a loss, but will save the massive taxes.
5 computers, 5 802.11b cards, one base station... plus 5 separate SSIDs and WEP keys in use. Prove I have a lan beeyatch! Maybe they want to tax my wireless phone 'cause it's using 2.4 ghz? Or does my 900mhz wireless speaker setup count too because sometimes I can hear it on my old 900mhz phone?
If I use my neighbor's 802.11b access point, do they tax me or him?
At least they're at work though, not on the run like the Texas democrats. I'd rather pay a politician to sit in his office and think up stoopid laws than pay them to run away to Oklahoma and say "nayah nayah nayah!" I think I'd get fired if I made my boss send out the cops to chase me around.
"When Johnson started the war on poverty, the poverty rate was 15%. When he left office, it was 7%."
He and his cronies did it by redefining poverty.
Every few years, it gets redefined again. Really, are you that naive? Or do you have an agenda?
At least I'm pretty sure the electrical wires would.
stupid... utterly stupid.
Hey, maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem like a country concerned about abridging freedom of speech should be imposing taxes on communication mechanisms. I mean, if the government were providing a service for the tax like delivering a letter for postage or improving the state's public network infrastructure, then maybe I could see it. But, I find it unAmerican (in the old sense, not the new one) to force an individual to pay a fee to an essentially irrelevant (as in unrelated to the communication at hand) governing body in order to send a message. I mean it's called freedom of speech right?
So taking less money from taxpayers is the same as giving it to strangers? Funny -- I thought paying taxes was more like giving money to strangers.
Funny -- I don't know you, and you don't know me. Thus, you're a stranger. That money that I was paying in taxes would have gone to something I do know. So, in effect, by giving you money, they're taking my [your] money from programs I [you] know about and giving it to a stranger.
Most school funding is at the state and county level.
Oh, true it is. But what goes around comes around. And there is a lot of federal funding to the schools. That's what half of this shit about the ridiculous "No Child Left Behind" law is about--the threat of loss of federal funds. To top it off, the federal government is behind on fucking payments they owe to fund special ed laws they passed.
I deal with this every fucking day with the impaired children who I see as patients, who can't get food because the schools don't get enough fucking money to pay for the meals they are mandated to provide by the government. So what do the schools do? Hedge on the meals until a disgruntled parent sues the school. The costs of the lawsuit are generally cheaper than providing the damn services in the first place.
The current recession was obvious by early 2000. Rather than exercise any fiscal discipline, the previous administration and congress continued to increase spending when the economy was growing. Thus, they left massive government programs that could not be supported when the dot-com economy -- and thus the tax base -- collapsed.
Your logic is completely fucking flawed. I agree that the dot-com bubble was ridiculous, and anyone who stopped to think about it could see that from a mile away. But to somehow say that the previous administration increased spending in a way that was unsupportable is ridiculous. To imply that the previous administration is responsible for current economic conditions is even more absurd.
It's even more fucking ridiculous when you consider that the current administration isn't paying for the meagre services it is providing.
At least the previous administration had money to pay for the services it was providing. The deficit currently is larger than it ever has been in history. And for what? To fund a fucking war for Bush and Cheney's oil buddies? That Bush lied about? Bush sure picked a fucking strange time to start a needless war.
And that tax cut? Maybe--just maybe--if it were reasonable, I might support it. But the way it is, it supports no one but the very rich, who don't need it.
This "administration" makes me sick. Alienates the whole fucking world, puts me, you, and our children in debt, for oil money and to support monopolistic corporations.
Look, this tax on LANs is absurd. But to blast taxes in general is equally absurd. The answer to everything is not tax cuts for the rich. Economic growth occurs through targeted collection of funds and targeted spending. If I want to invest in my future, I need to get money from somewhere. Someone needs to give it to me. And when I spend it, I need to spend it in a way that represents a good investment.
It's no different for the government. The current administration is taking money from people it shouldn't be, and spending it in ways that is wasteful. Tax cuts should be on the shoulders of those who can bear it, and spending should be investments in research, development, and human resources. Bush and Cheney take money from the poor and give it to the rich.
Fucking ridiculous. Taxes aren't necessarily bad, nor is government spending. It's all a matter of how it's done.
More tax, tax, tax. When are we going to get fed up enough to demand better treatment? Florida in effect just said, "Don't bring your server farms, HQ's, and field offices here!" They've finally managed to attract something other than restaurants, tourists traps, and beach bums and now they're going to run them off again. I can just imagine who'll be exempt: legislater's personal offices and home LAN's of course. JAV
You missed the bit about how businesses don't really pay taxes, but just collect them from their customers. All of the schemes that purport to be 'progressive' lose sight of the fact that whether you're taxing sales or income, you're really taxing the transactions that generate the sales or income. So, when you try to nail Sam Walton's kids with a higher tax rate, you're also hitting the poor folks that shop at Wal-Mart, Earlene the cashier, and Elmer the greeter at the front door.
The problem with tax schemes that force Someone Else to write the check is that too many people believe they aren't paying the taxes.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
Next you can be taxed for the use of an advanced nervous system within your organic mobility suit.
http://mediagoblin.org/
Hey jackass (pun intended), GUESS WHO BROUGHT THIS IDEA TO THE TABLE! THATS RIGHT! Your democrat buddies! So go ahead and try to blame bush for this, but this proposal was made by YOUR party, not the republican party. STOP THE SPIN!
So let's RTFA and see if we can figure this out, OK?
:-)
"Most of Florida communications case law stems from the rotary dial era," saith the article. OK, so to my layman's brain, that sounds like "Our case law is old, so we need to do some crazy think to generate more court activity so we can update our case law." Kind of like "throw some shit at the wall and hope some sticks." Am I on the right track here?
"'The standard response is on the border between surprise and outrage,' says Arthur Simon, senior vice president of big-business lobby Associated Industries of Florida."
Aha, big business is against higher taxes. (Makes sense.) Finafuckingly, our Disney lobbyists will do something worthwhile by figting this. I'll bet the Mouse has a pretty big fscking LAN. Remember, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
"'What did surprise the business community was the extent and reach of the rule,' says the lobbyist."
In 2003, a LAN tax is akin to a breathing tax. Like they said in the article, "Practically any office with two computers will have a local area network."
Oh well. I'll have to see how this one goes. As long as we don't have to vote on it, I think we'll come through OK.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
To the extent that every single physical and energetic part of a network is taxed from the start, from the wire to the hubs and routers and even to the energy that powers it up and modulates across the wires and chips, you have to realize that what they are proposing now is a tax on the flow of information.
...damned firewall. What is wrong with this VPN? Tunnel interfaces are all screwed up. I'm too tired to figure this out. 14 fscking hours and no VPN and no time to think. I don't know what to do. Someone, tell me what to do.
What else are they talking about? Clearly they are not talking about taxing the flow of electric current, otherwise they would tax your extension cord by length for every year you have it hanging in the garage. But you take that same copper wire in a different form factor and with a certain number of twists per foot, those same electrons modulated in a particular way, and now you have something new you can tax. That is a very interesting transition.
There is a peculiar kind of mind at work here. It's almost exactly the same mind working in the shadowy deeps at SCO, and in Redmond, and in government agencies across the country. It is a business mind only superficially. More specifically, it is the mind bent on control.
I am not a revolutionary. I probably should be and when I was younger I might have been but these days I don't have time for it. But I can sense when someone is making a move on me and the things I hold to be important, and this is one of those times. The hair on the back of my neck starts to rise and I stop configuring the firewall and I sit back and I think.
We are in for a rough ride, I'm afraid. The authorities have arrived. Between the RIAA and the FBI and the bean counters and Microsoft it is getting uncomfortable to be where we are, doing what we are doing, in the way we are doing it and have done it for decades. We are not domesticated enough, not cowed. They cannot control this, any of it, and it worries them endlessly. There is no business model for cattle that won't stay in their pen. But there are plenty of professionals who can round up your cattle for you, for a fee. And then to the factory.
Do the cows in the feedlot know where they are headed? They have had an easy life, haven't they. Grown fat and complacent. Did the jump-over-the-fence thing once, got hit with a prod, gave it up after that. The grass wasn't really all that much better on the other side anyway. Do the cattle ever stop to wonder about that day? And about the fence? About why it was so important to stay behind the fence?
Here we are grazing the tall green grass, belly deep and well pleased, and the herders have noticed we're out. Feel the first shock of the prod...hear the order to move out...what are you going to do...
=^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
YOu're stoned, right? YOu actually WANT to get raped more than once on the same purchase?
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Lan Tax
Card Color : White
Casting Cost : W
Card Type : enchantment
Edition : Fourth Edition [Rare 1], Legends [Uncommon 1]
Power/Toughness : n/a
Artist : Brian Snoddy
Card Text: During your legislative session, if a taxpayer controls more money than you think they should, you may search their wallet and remove up to as much money as you want and put that into the general fund. Reshuffle that and other tax sources afterwards.
IANAL, but here's some more info:
Just as some fun additional reading (if you can tolerate the legalese), there are some cases out there that are thankfully chipping away at ERISA.
One, appropriately enough, just happened a few months ago before the Florida Supreme Court, so its effects are yet to be realized. That case was Villazon Versus Prudential Healthcare Plan.
Another case that has come down against HMOs and ERISA was a case in Pennsylvania, Pappas Versus Asbel (see the second case, Pappas II, since it was sent back from the SCOTUS for revision by the lower court).
All these cases have touched on vicarious liability for HMOs, with the argument that the HMO cannot make treatment decision (that are not a matter of internal HMO policy) and escape the resulting liability for those actions.
Can't have power and responsibility separated from one another... results in tragedy and injustice.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
tax on "thingy":
... thingy.
Politician: Gentlemen, our MP saw the PM this AM and the PM wants more LSD from the PIB by tomorrow AM or PM at the latest. I told the PM's PPS that AM was NBG so tomorrow PM it is for the PM it is zero. Give us a fag or I'll go spare. Now- the fiscal deficit with regard to the monetary balance, the current financial year excluding invisible exports, but adjusted of course for seasonal variations and the incremental statistics of the fiscal and revenue arrangements for the forthcoming annual budgetary period terminating in April.
First Official: I think he's talking about taxation.
Politician: Bravo, Madge. Well done. Taxation is indeed the very hub of my gist. Gentlemen, we have to find something new to tax.
Second Official: I understood that.
Third Official: If I might put my head on the chopping block so you can kick it around a bit, sir...
Politician: Yes?
Third Official: Well most things we do for pleasure nowadays are taxed, except one.
Politician: What do you mean?
Third Official: Well, er, smoking's been taxed, drinking's been taxed but not
Politician: Good Lord, you're not suggesting we should tax... thingy?
First Official: Poo poo's?
Third Official: No.
First Official: Thank God for that. Excuse me for a moment. (leaves)
Third Official: No, no, no - thingy.
Second Official: Number ones?
Third Official: No, thingy.
Politician: Thingy!
Second Official: Ah, thingy. Well it'll certainly make chartered accountancy a much more interesting job.
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Florida will tax local local area networks? ARe they going to tax automatic teller machine machines next? It's LAN, not local LAN! Just like it's ATM, not ATM machine!
I'm glad I live in Australia. Hang on... we've got Sen. Richard Alston. Bugger.
I am moving my virtual corporation's virtual HQ VLAN infrastructure to Delaware. Also, I am changing all my VLAN labels to VRAN - virtual "remote area" network. Because remote sounds like the opposite of local, and thus, should not be taxed. Perphaps I will even TM it and make some $ in the process.
[another urban legend in the making...some of you may be too young to remember the (per) e-mail tax that was *very* popular in the early 90s and all the dweebs were talking about it:) ]
If you RTFA, the article states what they are taxing in exactly one sentence. On the second page of the article. Clear as mud eh?
They are taxing the lease cost or the depreciation that the company writes off.
There may be additional local taxes as well.
I was wondering what the hell I was going to be taxed on my home LAN if this got passed, and since I neither lease the equipment, nor write off depreciation, I wouldn't be paying the tax. Let me run it as a home office though, and I guess I don't get to depreciate my router and Ethernet cards if I want to without paying a tax.
Bryan
Step 1: Tax LANs.
Step 3: Profit!
The pain was excruciating and the scarring is likely permanent, but that just means it's working.
"substitute communications systems". :)) are all "substitute communications systems". I can see it now, go to the local Post Office and ask for "memo stamps".
That really makes me wonder, intercoms, paper memo's, writing on one's hand (just like we did in school
Now I'm afraid to holler down the hall at someone.
Pete Carr Owner Chatmag.com
I know what they'll do. They'll tax 9% of your network! You can take a rotary saw and just chop off 9% of any network device on your LAN. Grab some sissors and chop off 9% of your CAT5 or coax or whatever cabel you use. That's about as much technology they're used to.
Yes, I'm aware that it's 9% of lease/deprecation $$.
I've upped my standards, so up yours.
(apology in advance: sorry for sounding ranty)
If you actually read the article, it seems fairly clear this tax would be aimed at business LANs, not home LANs. The Orlando Business Journal's target audience is business people not nerds. In Florida, they have a "communications tax" on business communications. There's a "proposed rule [that] pushes the definition of communications systems to include local area networks, or LANs, as well as wide area networks, or WANs, which connect computers across distances." Now it doesn't seem so bizarre does it? Or at least--it seems only as bizarre as the "communications tax" does.
Furry cows moo and decompress.
Of course, when I saw this, I immediately thought of yesterday's Dave Barry column about The Doofus State title. I knew it was only a matter of time before someone mentioned it.
A solution to the problem with music today
My degree is from a state university. I think that's a very good thing.
An educated population is very good for the economy. Very very few people could afford any post-secondary education if all colleges and universities were privately funded.
I'm sure I could have afforded private university tuition, if I had worked very hard at a formula for converting lead into gold. Absent this, no education.
"dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope"
Personally, I think taxation should be directly related to the public cost for the item or activity. For instance, having a home means that you make police, fire, schools, prisons, water service, etc. necessary. So tax a home based upon the costs incurred to support these things. Tax a vehicle based on the costs needed to maintain the roads -- i.e., wear and tear on the roads. Tax pollution and garbage.
The things that seem the most unjust are the taxes which are completely disconnected from the use of the tax money. A tax on LANs is ridiculous because there is no reason to think that it costs the state any money for you to have one -- the public incurs no costs to support your LAN. In addition, LANs are things that are needed by people and businesses. So, like windows and hearths, it seems even worse that the state is collecting taxes on them because they know people cannot live without them. It makes you feel very powerless at the hands of the state.
I have a home LAN that currently has 5 computers
on it, and, obviously, can include more. I don't
live in Florida (thank GOD), but if I did, what
exactly would they be trying to tax me on? What
goes on in my own home? You have GOT to be kidding!
A nine percent on anything tax is robbery. Total state taxs need to be limited to no more than 6% of anyones total income. Here in Califoring we need to roll the sales tax back to 6% and income tax back to 6%. Taxation is always a jobs killer.
As you can see I don't care about my karma.
It's an opportunity to make money.
An opportunity to make money arrised when you provide something of value in exchange for monetary remuneration. Government isn't about making money...it's about taking money. I make it, they take it. Simple.
So, what do I get in return that's of any value? Quite simply, one could argue that the streets, police, schools, national defense (minus Ashcroft, Poindexter & Co.) etc. comprise value that I receive for my tax money. But the natural tendency is to take more and more without providing an equivalent return in value, and that's exactly what's happening here. If the citizens in Florida are smart, they'll put an end to this faster than a politician can say "Cat 5", much less figure out what it means.
The tax would be payable on the actual cost of operating and maintaining the system, which DOR defines as including the following:
Are they out of thier minds?!!? Or just trying to kill businesses' abilty to maked a buck?! The DOR are purposing taxing at 9% the total cost of the follow expenses: the value of the hardware, the value of the lease, the cost of repair, the cost to house the equipment, the tools used to maintain the system, the cost of the power bill, the cost of the bandwidth, even the employee salaries and thier benefits!!
The journey is better then the end.
This is a tax on the depriceated value of the network. If you are not a buisness no tax because you can't clame deprieciated losses. This is to fix a company that writes off $1,000,000 in network equitment depriciation every year and therefore doesn't pay taxes.
This BTW is the is one of the reasons M$ didn't pay ANY fedral taxes last year
Strive to make your client happy, not necessarly give them what they ask for
So, looks like beaming data between two PDAs or phones is safe, for now.
(Quote from DSLreports via syates21.)
Joke in subject line. This patented StreamLine(TM) mini-post brought to you by:
c-hack.com |
"Here's why you'll start seeing more crazy-sounding initiatives like this "lan tax":
"1. Outsourcing jobs overseas = massive amounts of lost taxes for USA. Since IT jobs were hit the hardest and California was the hottest IT area, it doesn't take a genius to figure out one substantial reason why they're in a budget crisis (which is a taste of things to come for our federal budget)."
Our economy is directly driven by the rich and big business. More money being made equals more money being injected into the economy. I seriously doubt that average joe sixpack who receives a big refund every year has contributed anywhere near as much as the rich and big business.
"2. Huge tax cuts without requirements on how it should be spent = lost tax revenues that might not be spent at all or spent in ways that improve the economy. This is kinda like giving a total stranger $100K and expecting him to spend it in ways that help you while not giving him any expectations on how to spend it (i.e. he can spend it all on building offshore infrastructure to move even more US jobs overseas!)."
Of course you neglect the fact that these tax cuts will be spent by the people receiving them. Again, more profit means more tax revenue.
"3. Our president's failure to build consensus in the UN to attack Iraq and then being exposed for making false justification statements means that other countries are less willing to send their young soldiers to die in Iraq. This means more of OUR taxes going to pay for this ongoing fiasco which will likely INCREASE the odds of future terrorist attacks & boycotts against US-made products."
The terrorists are extremist Muslims that are in fact LITERALLY interpreting the Quran. The Quran as directly interpreted requires the complete elimination of anyone who is not a Muslim. To die in this endeavor means a nice fat chair next to Allah with an endless supply of virgins and rivers that run of wine. Our involvement in middle eastern affairs simply serves to fan the flames a little bit higher. As a side note, the information that was given to our president from various intelligence sources pointed towards weapons of mass destruction being in Iraq, and possibly being scuttled and/or shipped across the Jordanian borders.
"4. and so on including our mounting budget deficit which is like running up a huge credit card bill with mounting interest that YOU and I must pay later with...you guessed it--more freaking taxes than EVER given the aging demographics of babyboomers and their impact on social security, medicare and reduced collection of income taxes from them as they retire."
On this I can partially agree. The deficit does need to be reduced. Tax cuts are one way to provide incentives for the major tax payers (the rich and big business) to invest more in the economy and pay more taxes. If everyone was a multi-millionaire the tax revenues would be huge. The average joe is not the person responsible for driving the economy.
"NOTE: $100K is roughly how much VP. Cheney will save in taxes in one year due to the Bush tax cuts. Since that money has to come from somewhere, many of our brave soldiers sacrificing their lives in Iraq will receive PAY CUTS of around $200/month."
A completely unfounded statement
"services like public schools and homeland security facing massive budget cuts in the future--it doesn't HAVE to happen but I don't see a way out if we continue managing our government in the most idiotic way I've seen in decades."
Let's get with the program then and let big business make more money and drive our economy back up. Tax cuts serve as an incentive...not a deterrent.
"I feel sorry for the poor soul who'll get elected as our president next because he's gonna have an almost impossible task on his hands (he'll need to take massive and very unpopular action to fix this mess being created by the current politicians)."
Because of course we all know that Clinton acheived a lot and didn't leave a complete mess that Bush is having to fix now (heavy sarcasm). In fact, I think Clinton will be one of the most unmemorable presidents in history (save for his little blow job incident).
"The strong will do what they want, the weak will do what they must."
-Thucydides
This LAN is my LAN
From Californ-LAN
To the New York I-LAN...
Sig? We don't need no stinking sig....
We need to make our voices heard in this issue so that we don't have this kind of thing happening in every state. Show some love to the Dave Bruns, the chief of public information of the Florida Department of Revenue.
Contact info:
Dave Bruns, Chief of Public Information
Voice: (850) 487-2747
Pager: (850) 531-3259
Fax: (850) 488-0024
E-mail: brunsd@dor.state.fl.us
I've taken the time to post a rant on this topic on my website, as well as this contact information. It is here.
I hope to make the website a hub for activism against issues like this one.
StickMan
www.rageagainst.net
Dead on.
The whole thing is retarded. The older I get, the more I realize some things never change.
I live in Oregon. (I know, big mistake right now.) The number of new tax ideas coming out of Salem is astounding. If only they put that much effort into saving money.
Lets just hope they don't get the tax. Might give another drain bramaged state ideas...
Blogging because I can...
This from the state that charges a 13% tax for satellite TV service. Do they want us to have wires or don't they?
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
Since LAN is an Acronym and stands for "Local Area Network" a Local LAN must be a very very local area network. :-)
But I know, its all PCMCIA (People Can't Memorize Computer Industry's Acronyms). :-)
If they are going to tax something on the interent, it should ONLY be commercial (ie. profit-seeking) activities. Everything else should be free. Taxing LAN/WAN is the dumbest thing ever!!! They should not tax the transport mechanism or how many computers are connected to the interent, or whether you have a personal website up, and so on...
If you live in Florida, you better stop your govt from taxing all of the internet.
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
... LANs is??? Historically, I suspect that it would be difficult to show that many - if any - regulations actually solved problems. They may outlaw a "problem," they may make it possible for a victim of a careless or malicious practice to sue, but rarely if ever has a problem been eradicated. Child labour, slavery, just exported to countries without the right to keep and bear arms. As far as VoIP goes, right now users are considerably less vulnerable than they would be once someone starts "protecting" their rights, especially since their constitutional rights are still there, even when they sit down in front of the keyboard. Regulation cannot be achieved in an uninvasive fashion.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
Uh... Right. That's the reason for the war. Yeah. I believe it. Totally. Go Bush. Hooray for USA.
NOT.
'Stonishing how ignorant of evolution antievolutionists tend to be. They make up a 'theory of evolution' and then claim that "evolutionist" believe the fable the antievolutionist just invented.
"But daddy, don't they call that the 'straw man argument' in English 1?"
"Sure do daughter, but that's never stopped anyone from a rant yet."
"But what do scientists do about that?"
"Well mostly they wonder what the heck those guys are talking about. If they say, 'I don't believe that,' the antievolutionists turn around and say, 'see this scientist doesn't believe in evolution.' The scientist never does get to say, 'I never said that!"
"Really?"
"Just so, my daughter."
Why are we assuming that this will stop at LANs? What's so special about CAT-5? If we're talking about devices that can communicate with my PC then transfer that on, I can see a USB card reader, two digital cameras, a camcorder, and an iPAQ from where I sit. Do I have to pay twice for my wired LAN and my 802.11b cards? You can network over USB and IEEE 1394. Oh no, every machine that I've got has parallel and serial ports, and I've got the legacy cables to use them. Is my webcam a "communication system"? What about my joystick? Steering wheel? Speakers? Monitor? If not, why not? If I have to pay the same tax on a 10Mb hub as a 100Mb or 1Gb one, why not on a serial port?
Needless to say, I'm sure that all these questions have already been thought about by the dedicated and informed legislators of Florida. In fact, they've probably been discussed at great length, over many working lunches, in many of the better hotels and restaurants across that great state.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
They would tax your lan with 9% of its bandwidth and use this bandwidth for BigBrother purposes.
I think that Russian FSB should sue Florida State for stoling its Intellectual Property. They invented an idea to tax providers with their bandwidth about six years ago
See Moscow Libertarium for details.
RSI
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
I added everything up a couple of months ago, including the sewer tax, and found my tax rate at 49% of my income. This is just nutz.
So now I have a LAN at home and get to pay tax on that too; oh boy, what a deal!
Hell even my turds are taxed.
1. Threaten to raise taxes to make up for 'shortfall.'
2. Claim the need for government sponsered gambling is good for the children.
3. Threaten to take away a service because of lack of tax increase.
4. Tax the hell out of least likely group to vote.
Register to vote. Then vote.
Are local PABX's taxed out there?
I live in the country of the million taxes (Sweden) and the idea of adding more and more taxes with more and more rules is counter productive.
The reason for taxes is to bring money into the state (or whatever it might be called locally) so that the state can service the public (police, fire fighters, hopefully health care). That is good taxes, taxes most people don't mind when they sit down and think (since they can't pay for all those services alone anyways).
The problem when you start using taxes to push certain agendas (oh, are they making too much money that we should make? Let's lobby up a new stupid tax!) that aren't in the public's interest (more tax on tobaco makes sense since it strains the health care, for instance) is that you end up with a very unstable system. Just look at how many new freakin' tax laws that pop up constantly. Every year when I make my taxes something has changed, I wouldn't want to make the taxes for a large cooperation.
So since I am a whiney bastard, what should be done then huh? Well, look at this proposed tax. It is not an especially clear one (give us 1/3 of your income is a clear tax) and it will more than likely be hard to control (Yes, let's have the FBI chase companies with too much CAT 5, ok? It's not like they have their hands filled with anything right now huh?), which makes it a bad tax. So simply put a bunch of smart people in a room and find out what simple rules of taxation could be used, and enforce them. Won't ever happen, but it would solve the whole thing.
Another nice thing would be to get rid of paper money and only use "virtual" money (i.e. debit cards). Much easier to track what is going on, since you have a history. And only people trying to break the law (buying narcotics, arms, smuggling people, money, terrorists, and Mac users (joke)) would have any trouble.
They want it all, so they will make up things to take a chunk here and there till its all gone.
Next is a water tax... oh wait.. they do that already... Everything you buy is taxed.. even multiple times if you buy used ( isnt double taxation illegal? )... even if you die you get taxed.. again...
Perhaps an air tax? Or a OSS tax.. Not much left to tax around here..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Yeah, we use the IP protocol on this here LAN network. Now I gotta go type my PIN number into an ATM machine. Is that all OK?
... the evil bits ?
I can understand the need for a 'tax' on very much public infrastructures like a massive telephone land line system or cable systems... I can't believe I read that statement! Please tell me it was a slip of the thumb. The only need for any tax is so that the government can steal more of your hard earned money and give it to people who don't want to work for it. This is just an example of them being more creative about identifying achievers. People with LAN's obviously have more than one computer, therefore they have more than they really need and therefore they have something to take.
"Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Ben Franklin
Not really. It's more the alcoholic beverages industry as well as pharma and medical that want marijuana outlawed because it could potentially really cut into their profits. I myself have no desire to drink when I've smoked pot. In addition to that long time consumption of pot does not have by a long shot the same kind of serious health risks that alcohol consumption has. And what's even better... smoking pot gives me ideas... something the government and the moralists absolutely hate. The only thing I can think of in reply to your post is maybe they don't want healthy blacks with fresh new ideas.
Tax, by all means, the company that supplies the infrastructure but tax it on the profits that is makes. And yes, corporate tax laws are a joke, but the solution to this is to fix the laws so the corps pay tax on their income, not to tax them based on how useful they are being. There are already too many companies that see providing custormer servives as an expensive liability.
Look at some of the stately homes in England. You an see ones with chimneys pulled down, because someone decided to tax chimneys, and then there are the ones with the bricked up windows, because someone decided to tax Windows.
Which now I come to think about it...
Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
here is a big Eff you florida. you suk, your laws suk, your people
suk.
One word.
Wireless.
"No LAN cables here sir, please move along."
LANs are so cheap, even for relatively large LANs, that equipment expenses are more likely to be written off as capital expense rather than being depreciated over time.
Did you mean "operating expense?" My understanding of "capital expense" is that it is something cost of which is amortized over time, typically things which are expensive but durable like a new roof or a printing press. The alternative is an operating expense which simply comes from your budget for that year. A ream of paper or polo shirts for your staff would be operating expenses, even if you spent $100,000 on polo shirts. So I would think it would be the capital expenses which are deprecated.
But what do I know, I work for a university where even though my department buys computers every year and replaces them on a 4-year cycle, the money still comes from the capital, not operating, budget.
That's right, no state income tax. Only a sales tax on certain goods and services.
Who marked that bozo a 4-interesting? He (and they) need a clue.
--- Generation X: The first generation to have SIG lines inferior to their parents... ---
Not sure if most people know this, but Florida does not have a State income tax. The states largest single source of income is the tourism trade (33 billion+ a year). Over the past 2 years the states tourism trade has been on the decline (as most travel related services have). For those reasons, the state is looking for other sources of income. Not that I agree with the foolish LAN plan. Just thought it should be put into perspective.
Its more then passed time. Google "fair tax act 2003" we need to get this bill passed. Lets get rid of all of this tax everything bs and the IRS right along with it. This is a huge bill and would change everyones life for the better. You would for the first time in your life get your whole paycheck. Company's would flock back to the US and we would have a hard time filling all the positions. Read about it and then tell people. It's our country, lets take it back, get involved, get informed and let's make it happen.
This LAN is my LAN...
If you're complaining about Taxes, you should consider their motivations. The revenue from those taxes will be well spent on... ummm... unions and corporate welfare.
Small government is good. It sounds like you agree.... amazing considerng the forum.
Dave Bruns, Chief of Public Information
Voice: (850) 487-2747
Pager: (850) 531-3259
Fax: (850) 488-0024
E-mail: brunsd@dor.state.fl.us
Contact info from
http://www.rageagainst.net/rants.php?id=6
Here's my comments to the publsher via their online form:
0 3/08/25/story1.html?page=1 has got to be about the most useless piece of journalism I have ever had the misfortune of being exposed to. Let's put aside for a moment that this is an online article about technology without a single link to supporting or supplemental information. While I appreciate the need for brievity, the author could have at least pointed to where to find out exactly what the proposed tax is based on. Is it on the LAN hardware? Maintenance? Power consumption? How does the proposed legislation read? It mentions a survey that asks business owners to estimate what the tax will cost them, but doesn't mention where the survey can be obtained or how to participate. I understand everything couldn't be covered, but it would be nice if we were at least pointed in the general direction of some more information. What ever happened to who, what, where, when, why and how?
The article at http://orlando.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/20
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
Or double the tax on geriatric diapers.
They'd make a lot more. Surely.
Ah ! The venerable tradition of King John's "Window TAX", and the Maggie's latter day "Roof Tax", "Head Tax" and other such.
No tinfoil hat is necessary. Look at how laws are made today (ie, follow the money) - it wasn't any different back in the 1930's. Reading material:
A brief overview of William Randolph Hearst's campaign against "Marijuana - Assassin of Youth"
Saying marijuana was outlawed because of how dangerous it is to people (young people in particular, because somebody has to think of the children) is very much akin to saying P2P should be outlawed because it will lead to massive poverty amongst artists. In both cases, the real antagonism comes from people who make a lot of money through business models that *should* have been killed by new technologies: cheap harvesting of hemp for paper vs more expensive, less efficient wood pulp, and cheap online music and movie distribution vs incredibly profitable meatspace distribution. Political corruption being used to pass laws isn't a new thing, and neither is FUD being used as a weapon to make people not mind when these corrupt laws are passed.
Is he too lazy? Or is it just a manifestation of incompentence? Invariably when a story on slashdot is confusing, incomprehensible, or just plain inaccurate it also seems to bear Timmy's patented brand. I wish you could filter out stories by their editor. In this latest story of his he feels the need to include text asking "Exactly what they will be taxing isn't clear, since the tax amounts to 9% of... something. Will taxing the electrical wires within your home be next?" Well the link he provides answers that question. Or it answers that question for those of us who can read. "Computer networks would be taxed at that percent on either annual lease payments or depreciation. " So for the question of home wiring being taxed, yes it would be, if it's leased or if it's being depreciated as a capital good. Why /. continues to allow this person who shows NOTHING but contempt for /. and it's readers I can't understand. He doesn't think either /. or it's readers is worth the time it takes to do more than read bold print and write up the first knee jerk reaction he has.
Timmy, if you ever fall down a well, I'll personally shoot Lassie to keep you there.
It is a 5-node supercomputer. :P
Why not just tax stupidity? ... Oh wait, then the tax makers would have to pay tax aswell. Scratch that idea.
After the people being too stupid to understand how to vote, I am sure they will make a lot of cash.
Not all that hard to make beer.
About a $50 to $100 investment in (new) equipment, less if you are a good scrounger or have a well stocked kitchen.
$15 to $30 per 5 gallon batch of beer after that for:
Boil the water, malt extract, and hops - cool (add more water to bring to 5 gallons) add yeast. Wait ~2 weeks, bottle, wait ~10 days (very very important to wait at least 10 days.) enjoy.
Making beer this way you are paying someone else to do four inital steps:
Beer is not all that hard - It is theorized that it was originally done by accident...
While the government of FL is trying to find new and creative ways to squeeze money out of its residents, it should consider that:
1. LAN taxes will discourage corporate expansion throughout Florida.
2. Companies will resist opening offices in FL and business will be lost.
3. Companies with LANS provide much needed white-collar office jobs and generally result in wealthier citizens, higher property values and other goodies that come with more $$$ in a community.
4. Other State taxes, specifically the tax on registering an out-of-state vehicle, have been challenged in court and the State has been out BIG $$$, so thanks to that precedent they should consider any "revolutionary new tax" seriously before putting it on the books.
While we're at it, if we can't trust the people to spend money wisely, why can we trust them to pick the government? We should also close the "voting loophole".
I thought they did just that in the last presidential election?
Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
Someone should introduce a counter proposal to tax day-time cable TV access, and the Depends. That's what I think.
-- Novus ordo seclorum
I don't see how they can tax LAN's, even if they do classify them as a communication system. I can setup a network of strings with tin cans at each end, and use that instead of telephones in the office.... and the phone company can't charge me for that (even if they'd like to!).
Secondly, the whole point of a tax on communication media is that it uses up a limited resource. If a LAN is configured properly, no traffic on that LAN will cross the firewall boundry to the rest of the internet, so no public resources are being used (except electricity, which is already taxed).
Have they even thought about a Wi-Fi LAN? No costs for cabeling. Are they going to have the LAN enforcemnet team out war driving?
So we didn't have to deal with bull like that.
Anything that kills internet traffic in the Spam Capital of the World would make my life better. Please Florida, tax your LANs to death!
When I'm senator, I will devote my years in office to taxing every connection people have for their home WLANs, including those that are accessed by WAP and Bluetooth. So keep them PDAs coming!!!! IM REECH BIYATCH!!
They can pry my LAN from my cold dead hands.
-- Internet addict.
So , judging by other posts - it turns out you are a fucking liar who will twist the facts to fit your little agenda.
We all have them, the difference is that you are obviously too stupid to be subtle about pushing your own agenda.
I'm not constitutional scholar, but with my vast experience (5 minutes with Google's help) it looks like you just have to be 30 and have lived there for 5 years
But Herr Heisenberg, how does the electron know when I'm looking?
Yeah, and you can go use an Automatic Transaction/Teller Machine Machine to get the money to pay the tax.
I'm reminded by your response of polititions who sidestep direct questions by answering something totally unrelated or spouting their rehearsed views until the original question/point is forgotten by joe-sixpack.
This was your response to point #1 in which I simply stated that jobs moving offshore will decrease the income taxes collected by states and federal govt:
Our economy is directly driven by the rich and big business. More money being made equals more money being injected into the economy. I seriously doubt that average joe sixpack who receives a big refund every year has contributed anywhere near as much as the rich and big business.
See? I make a point about loss of income taxes collected as more jobs move offshore and you spout that the rich drive the economy. If you want to know how economies work, read Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations" rather than reciting what you might hear repeated on Fox News.
This is how you responded to point #2 in which I stated that the tax cuts might not be spent in ways that help the economy or at all. I further give an example of how the tax cuts might be spent on building offshore facilities to move even more US jobs overseas:
Of course you neglect the fact that these tax cuts will be spent by the people receiving them. Again, more profit means more tax revenue.
See? Anyone can see clearly that I did mention the tax cuts MIGHT (not WILL) be spent and even gave an example. If we sold the tax breaks to Americans with "because the rich pay more now", then I wouldn't bother bringing it up. But it was sold to Americans with "because it will help improve the economy" so I'd like to see this tied together for people that receive millions in tax breaks. And as for the poor schmoes who only get $500 - $50,000 in annual tax breaks, let them spend it anyway they want.
Also, your "more profit means more tax revenue" sounds like common sense but is in fact misleading because there are clear examples of corporations making billions in profits (not revenues) while not paying ANY federal income taxes due to loopholes. For example, Microsoft paid no income taxes in 1999 despite making $12.3 billion in profits according to Citizens for Tax Justice. To find out why this doesn't jive with that year's SEC reports, look at this Motley Fool article for details and you'll find the numbers from ctj.org add up.
Your reponse to point #3 in which I state that we (USA) end up paying more for the war in Iraq because we pissed off our allies that would've paid for part that if we went in together was baffling:
The terrorists are extremist Muslims that are[...]
Whether the terrorists are Muslims or Martians and whether they believe in Allah or the tooth fairie is irrelevant to my statement about us having to pay for ALMOST ALL of the war instead of A REASONABLE PART of the war because our leader didn't think it was important enough to build consensus with UN before going in. IMHO, if we had Bush SR leading us instead of JR, then this would've been done right.
I didn't like Clinton either but at least we didn't lose thousands of American lives to terrorists within our country during his watch. And during his foreign policy leadership, I vaguely remember Israeli and Palestinian leaders shaking hands at the White House--vaguely because that is not as memorable as the current bloodbath. I also recall a balanced budget but that isn't as memorable as the millions of jobs lost under Bush Jr. or the now unbalanced budget & deficit which can't be explained away solely by the cost of war on terrorism.
Things can be done a lot better than this and I don't care if it is a Republican or Democrat or Independent that helps us out of this mess. --- We need someone smarter to lead
Total,
... the rest was concrete html text. Now and then I used it, but lost it, because Microsoft OS Win3.1 had a senior moment forgot where anything was on the harddisc and that was on of the few unrecoverable. Since then I have done a little html, but I never keep anything but references and links to W3C and ... whatever.
/.
You're right, but it is hard to break old habits when you're 50+.
I use text more frequently then html, because for me typing a url is as more a habit then writing a hyperlink for some text. I usually keyboard select the url alt-tab to another running browser/app then paste+[cr].
Back about a couple/few years ago I made a little html template that I could just hot-keys insert before and after appropriate html for the paragraph
HAVE FUN!
OldHawk777
Reality is a self-induced hallucination.
Oh yea, there is a way to turn-off those default pesky personal sig-blocks provided by
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
But it makes people feel good about doing something to help the poor downtrodden, never mind that it's actually hurting them.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
Apparently this fee is to pay for the upgrading and maintaining of the infrastructure Telstra maintains for us to be able to have the Net.
However, the Australian goverment is trying to sell off Telstra.. and its infrastructe for a quick profit.
You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
10. Shooting things with stoner-friendly autotracking guns to make music. (Rent Rez now if you do not own it.)
09. Glow in the dark sunglasses.
08. Anything by Philip K. Dick.
07. Visualization plugins for audio players.
06-01. "Ehm.. I forget."
Or, ahem, if Bush had?
Did you, um, ever see the things Gore said after the court's highly partisan final decision? You know, right after Clarence Thomas cast the deciding vote in the 5-4 case, allowing his wife to continue her work on Bush's transition team? Seemed fairly graceful to me, after the closest, most bitterly contested presidential election in US history had been decided in a state whose governor was the brother of one candidate but refused in any meaningful way to recuse himself or his political cronies from the process... You might want to take a look at the things Bush's own transition team said about Gore at that point.
Maybe you and I have different standards of behavior. Maybe, to you, the way in which the Bush team contested military ballots in Gore-friendly territory but loosened their standards for them in Bush-friendly ones, maybe that was "graceful"? (Do you mean "gracious"?)
But what am I thinking? You're a troll, pure and simple. Beg pardon.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.