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... of how data collected long ago can still be of use. and great images, too - especially if youve seen the original poor quality lander pics. (naturally, that would mean youd have to RTFAs, so never mind)
i wonder though, why are we collecting such massive amounts of data with every new mission, when obviously it takes too much time to 1. process it 2. interpret it 3. draw conclusions. how much more interesting data has already been collected, but noone looked at it? (or looked at it the "right" way - seti@home comes to mind) isnt there much more stuff worth of being looked at with "todays eyes"?
For years, scientists have paid little attention to the pictures
yeah, theyre always busy planning the next missions;)
cool down: who said that the mission fails when beagle fails?
check ESA Mars Express Orbiter Details to see how much more scientific data the european mission will return, even though some 20% of the mission failed.
- 3D imaging will reveal the topography of Mars in full colour
- build up a map of surface composition in 100 m squares, also measure aspects of atmospheric composition
- build up measurements of ozone and water vapour over the total surface of the planet for the different seasons
- measure the vertical pressure and temperature profile of carbon dioxide which makes up 95% of the martian atmosphere, and look for minor constituents including water, carbon monoxide, methane and formaldehyde
- measure ions, electrons and energetic neutral atoms in the outer atmosphere to reveal the numbers of oxygen and hydrogen atoms
- probe the planet's ionosphere, atmosphere, surface and even the interior
- map the sub-surface structure to a depth of a few kilometres
a lander just creeps around, poking holes in things. orbiter looks closely at the whole planet.
why not let the science results decide who succeeded.
cheer up, my european friend - afaik, the beagle part of the european mars mission makes up for only 20% - the rest of the mission, mars orbiter, probes the planet from a depth of several kilometers up to the rim of the atmosphere for signs of water and other characteristics. the mission alltogether is thus more likely to produce data thats more than a "pinpoint sample" as compared to the nasa mission;)
see the link above for an overview of the data the orbiter will gather and compare that to the fancy rubble images...
simple explanation: they have other aims than the obvious, stated ones.
longer version (from the link in my sig):
14 defining characteristics common to fascist regimes
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military -
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism -
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homo-sexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media -
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security -
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected -
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections -
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections
read the link in my sig and see how much you recognize; some key points from that article:
The 7 conditions (Warning signs)
that foster & fuel fascism are:
Instability of capitalist relationships or markets
The existence of considerable declassed social elements
The stripping of rights and wealth focused upon a specific segment of the population, specifically the middle class and intellectuals within urban areas as this the group with the means, intelligence and ability to stop fascism if given the opportunity.
Discontent among the rural lower middle class (clerks, secretaries, white collar labor).
Consistent discontent among the general middle and lower middle classes against the oppressing upper-classes (haves vs have-nots).
Hate: Pronounced, perpetuated and accepted public disdain of a specific group defined by race, origin, theology or association.
Greed: The motivator of fascism, which is generally associated with land, space or scarce resources in the possession of those being oppressed.
Organized Propaganda:
a) The creation of social mythology that venerates (creates saints of) one element of society while concurrently vilifying (dehumanizing) another element of the population through misinformation, misdirection and the obscuring of factual matter through removal, destruction or social humiliation, (name-calling, false accusations, belittling and threats).
b) The squelching of public debate not agreeing with the popular agenda via slander, libel, threats, theft, destruction, historical revisionism and social humiliation. Journalists in particular are terrorized if they attempt to publish stories contrary to the agenda.
Fascism is commonly defined as an open terror-based dictatorship which is:
Reactionary: makes policy based upon current circumstances rather than creating policies to prevent problems; piles lies and misnomers on top of more lies until the truth becomes indistinguishable, revised or forgotten.
Chauvinistic: Two or more tiered legal systems, varying rights based upon superficial characteristics such as race, creed and origin.
Imperialist elements of finance capital: Extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political domination of one state over its allies.
Though a dictatorship is the most common association with fascism, a democracy or republic can also be fascist when it strays away from its tenants of sovereignty.
huh? if this is your only concern about such a bill, that explains a lot.
you know, from outside the US, all of these things look very, very scary, and it doesnt seem like even the nerds *uh!* grasp whats at stake. if they pass a bill prohibiting breathing american air, youd probably welcome gill breathing.
well, the rest of the world will watch closely how much more you are willing to give up and how much more they can take away from you until you realize how much the "land of the free" has changed into something that starts to scare the shit out of people.
get rid of your leaders, before they get rid of you.
im not sure where you get your information, but all i ever saw was videotheken having separate rooms for adult / pr0n movies. if they dont separate the stuff from the rest, they are required to keep minors out of the shop.
youre right, though: age restrictions (and thats what the story is all about, even if most still dont seem to get it) sure have their pros and cons, and the debate in germany is still in progress.
dont watch too much tv, that should certainly help;)
hate the US
they dont. they are disappointed by the fact that the people in the us dont seem to wake up. they have no problem with americans, they have a problem with the american leaders and their "if youre not for us, youre against us" ideology and general ignorance of international law and consent.
and, as others pointed out: it is possible to learn from the past. some do, some dont. some take longer, some need to learn it the hard, painful way. us military is headed for the verrrry hard way of learning what can be done and what cant. i think that might dawn on large portions of the us population real soon.
still, old europe as it is now called can clearly differenciate between gwb and the americans; being anti-war does not mean being anti-american. this concept is probably beyond what some posters here can grasp.
did you see any recent war coverage on cnn, fox etc lately? ever wondered WHY they show you what they show? or why you dont see certain images and are deprived of certain facts and news? whos forcing what on whom? do the iraqi people want to be "liberated" that way?
strike-the-root.com
upon a population!
read the article: upon MINORS. its called protection of minors and it happens in accordance with german law. you might not like it - and lots of germans find it useless to restrict advertizing and sales in such a manner - but its a normal process. its not politically motivated or even remotely iraq-related. the decision was made long ago. not by the government but by a competent supervisory authority, which is a normal process in germany. you can still buy the game - but you need to grow up first. if this is all wrong, we should also grant minors the right to buy alcohol, drugs and porn without restrictions - wouldnt that be true freedom!?
to appear smarter and more mature than America.
thats easy. anyone can do it, even iraq. most of the world opposes the war - can they all be wrong or is it just that not everyone wants to be a sucker for gwb and his militia and not everyone is brainwashed by the us governments media outlets?
fox / oreilly, cnn and all the rest do a better thought police job than youd ever find in germany. random example of a free country where you can express your views freely: channelonenews.com
doesnt anyone notice the drift towards fascism in the us leadership? go read the definition and see what youll recognize:)
If thought crimes ever existed, it will start in Germany.
On a recent edition of his nightly program, O'Reilly said that "Once the war against Saddam Hussein begins, we expect every American to support our military, and if you can't do that, just shut up. Americans, and indeed our foreign allies who actively work against our military once the war is underway, will be considered enemies of the state by me.
"I don't want to demonize anyone, but anyone who hurts this country in a time like this, well, let's just say you will be spotlighted. Talking points invites all points of view and believes vigorous debate strengthens the country, but once decisions have been made and lives are on the line, patriotism must be factored in."
mainstream media outlet brainwash seems to work very well so far. how come that powell and the likes can command the us media not to show certain footage? oh, sure... the masses might start to remember that people die at war and that the mere process of assaulting "innocent" countries (what exactly DID saddam do to threaten us security? what exactly IS the justification for breaking international law?) produces injustice, suffering and the exact opposite of all those things the gvmnt pretends to bring to the iraqi people.
During World War I sauerkraut was renamed liberty cabbage and frankfurters became hot dogs. great outlook for the "freedom" the us wants bring the world. language cleansing usually is the first step towards fascism and censorship.
oh, topic: protection of minors is taken rather seriously in germany - doesnt always work, but prevents the worst excrescences. stop confusing that with censorship (go check a dictionary if you need to).
probably should have come back under a different name
probably wont help, because people would recognize them by their lousy drivers.
ill be damned, sliced and burned if i ever again spend a single cent on a piece of *hit designed by someone who claims to have three teeth, prongs or similar protrusions. the drivers they wrote looked a lot more like three brain cells.
i owned 2 different trident cards in my life - i gave both to people i really hate.
Slashdot Mirror
from their site:
many programs allow to set any referrer you like (download accelerators, browsers...).
cheap trick by some guy trying to be funny...
like surfing for relevant pr0n?
SCNR ;)
now, if that doesn't explain a LOT :)
thanks for that interesting post. hope it gets modded accordingly...
but i'm just a dreamer...
i wonder though, why are we collecting such massive amounts of data with every new mission, when obviously it takes too much time to 1. process it 2. interpret it 3. draw conclusions. how much more interesting data has already been collected, but noone looked at it? (or looked at it the "right" way - seti@home comes to mind)
isnt there much more stuff worth of being looked at with "todays eyes"?
yeah, theyre always busy planning the next missions ;)
"some" guys have all the luck.
check ESA Mars Express Orbiter Details to see how much more scientific data the european mission will return, even though some 20% of the mission failed.
- 3D imaging will reveal the topography of Mars in full colour
- build up a map of surface composition in 100 m squares, also measure aspects of atmospheric composition
- build up measurements of ozone and water vapour over the total surface of the planet for the different seasons
- measure the vertical pressure and temperature profile of carbon dioxide which makes up 95% of the martian atmosphere, and look for minor constituents including water, carbon monoxide, methane and formaldehyde
- measure ions, electrons and energetic neutral atoms in the outer atmosphere to reveal the numbers of oxygen and hydrogen atoms
- probe the planet's ionosphere, atmosphere, surface and even the interior
- map the sub-surface structure to a depth of a few kilometres
a lander just creeps around, poking holes in things. orbiter looks closely at the whole planet.
why not let the science results decide who succeeded.
cheer up, my european friend - afaik, the beagle part of the european mars mission makes up for only 20% - the rest of the mission, mars orbiter, probes the planet from a depth of several kilometers up to the rim of the atmosphere for signs of water and other characteristics. the mission alltogether is thus more likely to produce data thats more than a "pinpoint sample" as compared to the nasa mission ;)
see the link above for an overview of the data the orbiter will gather and compare that to the fancy rubble images...
longer version (from the link in my sig):
14 defining characteristics common to fascist regimes
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homo-sexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections
count your matches ;)
Fascism is commonly defined as an open terror-based dictatorship which is:
Reactionary: makes policy based upon current circumstances rather than creating policies to prevent problems; piles lies and misnomers on top of more lies until the truth becomes indistinguishable, revised or forgotten.
Chauvinistic: Two or more tiered legal systems, varying rights based upon superficial characteristics such as race, creed and origin.
Imperialist elements of finance capital: Extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political domination of one state over its allies.
Though a dictatorship is the most common association with fascism, a democracy or republic can also be fascist when it strays away from its tenants of sovereignty.
taken from the link in my sig.
http://www.doctorhugo.org/synaesthesia/e-kes.htm
neat cheat.
huh? if this is your only concern about such a bill, that explains a lot.
you know, from outside the US, all of these things look very, very scary, and it doesnt seem like even the nerds *uh!* grasp whats at stake. if they pass a bill prohibiting breathing american air, youd probably welcome gill breathing.
well, the rest of the world will watch closely how much more you are willing to give up and how much more they can take away from you until you realize how much the "land of the free" has changed into something that starts to scare the shit out of people.
get rid of your leaders, before they get rid of you.
go compare
im not sure where you get your information, but all i ever saw was videotheken having separate rooms for adult / pr0n movies. if they dont separate the stuff from the rest, they are required to keep minors out of the shop.
youre right, though: age restrictions (and thats what the story is all about, even if most still dont seem to get it) sure have their pros and cons, and the debate in germany is still in progress.
dont watch too much tv, that should certainly help ;)
hate the US
they dont. they are disappointed by the fact that the people in the us dont seem to wake up. they have no problem with americans, they have a problem with the american leaders and their "if youre not for us, youre against us" ideology and general ignorance of international law and consent.
and, as others pointed out: it is possible to learn from the past. some do, some dont. some take longer, some need to learn it the hard, painful way. us military is headed for the verrrry hard way of learning what can be done and what cant. i think that might dawn on large portions of the us population real soon.
still, old europe as it is now called can clearly differenciate between gwb and the americans; being anti-war does not mean being anti-american. this concept is probably beyond what some posters here can grasp.
did you see any recent war coverage on cnn, fox etc lately? ever wondered WHY they show you what they show? or why you dont see certain images and are deprived of certain facts and news? whos forcing what on whom? do the iraqi people want to be "liberated" that way?
strike-the-root.com
upon a population!
read the article: upon MINORS. its called protection of minors and it happens in accordance with german law. you might not like it - and lots of germans find it useless to restrict advertizing and sales in such a manner - but its a normal process. its not politically motivated or even remotely iraq-related. the decision was made long ago. not by the government but by a competent supervisory authority, which is a normal process in germany. you can still buy the game - but you need to grow up first. if this is all wrong, we should also grant minors the right to buy alcohol, drugs and porn without restrictions - wouldnt that be true freedom!?
to appear smarter and more mature than America.
thats easy. anyone can do it, even iraq. most of the world opposes the war - can they all be wrong or is it just that not everyone wants to be a sucker for gwb and his militia and not everyone is brainwashed by the us governments media outlets?
fox / oreilly, cnn and all the rest do a better thought police job than youd ever find in germany. random example of a free country where you can express your views freely: channelonenews.com
doesnt anyone notice the drift towards fascism in the us leadership? go read the definition and see what youll recognize :)
On a recent edition of his nightly program, O'Reilly said that "Once the war against Saddam Hussein begins, we expect every American to support our military, and if you can't do that, just shut up. Americans, and indeed our foreign allies who actively work against our military once the war is underway, will be considered enemies of the state by me. "I don't want to demonize anyone, but anyone who hurts this country in a time like this, well, let's just say you will be spotlighted. Talking points invites all points of view and believes vigorous debate strengthens the country, but once decisions have been made and lives are on the line, patriotism must be factored in."
zwire.com
what a great, free country!
mainstream media outlet brainwash seems to work very well so far. how come that powell and the likes can command the us media not to show certain footage? oh, sure... the masses might start to remember that people die at war and that the mere process of assaulting "innocent" countries (what exactly DID saddam do to threaten us security? what exactly IS the justification for breaking international law?) produces injustice, suffering and the exact opposite of all those things the gvmnt pretends to bring to the iraqi people.
During World War I sauerkraut was renamed liberty cabbage and frankfurters became hot dogs. great outlook for the "freedom" the us wants bring the world. language cleansing usually is the first step towards fascism and censorship.
oh, topic: protection of minors is taken rather seriously in germany - doesnt always work, but prevents the worst excrescences. stop confusing that with censorship (go check a dictionary if you need to).
http://www.ntrack.com/what_is.shtm
complete recording studio. You can record and playback a virtually unlimited number of audio and MIDI tracks, depending on your computer's speed
Supports VST Instruments and DirectX Instruments synth plug-ins
live input processing allows to process with plug-ins live signal(s)
Supporting standard Windows soundcards drivers (MME), WDM, Asio and DirectSound drivers
and lots more. ive had some fun with earlier versions but havent tried the recent ones.
cool edit is also worth a try.
pos/channel/users/network
1. / #VCDGODS / 2122 / EFnet
(current top 30 channels, http://irc.netsplit.de/networks/)
i have no idea what they trade there ... ;)
probably wont help, because people would recognize them by their lousy drivers. ill be damned, sliced and burned if i ever again spend a single cent on a piece of *hit designed by someone who claims to have three teeth, prongs or similar protrusions. the drivers they wrote looked a lot more like three brain cells.
i owned 2 different trident cards in my life - i gave both to people i really hate.
learn from the past - dont take history!