This is exactly it. It's designed to be as comfortable and easy to hold as a gamepad, but get as close to mouse + keyboard precision. There are Linux drivers for the PS3 Six-axis or Dual Shock 3 and XBOX 360 controllers (which should work just fine in Steam OS).
People criticizing this for *not* copying the tried and true gamepad design (two analog sticks, 1 d-pad, 4 side buttons, etc) are like people critiquing a pickup truck or sports car for not seating 4 and having enough room for all their groceries.
Once most people are buying insurance through Obamacare
... You do realize there is no insurance plan that is "Obamacare". The public option was nixed in the Senate before the ACA was voted on. What we have now is are minimum standards which any health insurance provided can provide.
This is as idiotic as saying that the safety regulations imposed by the NHTA on automakers will lead to a "takeover of the auto industry. Just give it time and the NHTA will be the only game in town!"
Seriously, read up on the law.
I wish our energy was really spent figuring out why healthcare costs so much
If only our energy was spent on that and not wasted on putting the brakes on unsubstantiated rumors and right out fabrications.
Well the $400 is what the consumers would have (at a minimum) due to the console launch prices. Remember though that they'll have to plunk down $60 for a game if these releases are like the last gen (no pack in games).
I'd guess the Steam machines will have a target price of $400 to $500 (then again there will be different hardware vendors, so there will be *choice*). I don't see $100 extra being a hard up-sell considering the benefits I pointed out above (particularly cheaper games, more launch titles, free online play, and the option to turn it into a full fledged PC).
I wouldn't be surprised if Valve didn't already set a minimum spec for Steam Machines which makes a great target for developers (your game should be playable/enjoyable with a PC with these specs but can obviously have features enabled for higher versions of the Steam Machine.
I am hoping they give the machines benchmarks to reach and assign them levels (so at launch they sell Level 1 Steam Machines for $400, Level 2 $500, etc) so that years down the line (think 3-5) they can release higher levels and just update game requirements with a blurb like "Minimum Steam Machines Level 2, works best on Steam Machine level 5". Steam Machine Level 0 could be a box that can only play old ports, simple indy games, and is mainly intended to stream from a high level machine or a home gaming PC.
Regarding the hardware profits, that's for the partners to worry about. Valve just wants to sell games. That's where they make money from. And surely the hardware vendors are stoked to find a way to save the fledgling PC hardware business.
How do you think GameStop keeps such a healthy inventory of used games?
But now thanks to the magic of upgrades and PC game modding, games you already own on the SteamBox *can* look/run better as the years move on (without having to wait for the re-released collection edition for the new console).
The Steam Machine seems like yet another settop box that would allow you to remote into your gaming computer from your entertainment center.
This is where you missed the bigger point. The Steam machine can have different iterations and the most popular won't be just "streaming machines", the streaming option is there to answer to two things: "But I wanna play my windows games!" "Or I'd love to keep my battlestation PC in it's room, but occasionally game on the couch and I don't want to pay for two gaming pc's!"
The most promising is a self contained gaming system which will use Valve's optimized operating system - SteamOS (based on Linux) with new "AAA titles coming soon" and with the bonus of running any steam games you currently have that already have Linux ports (of the 3,000 games on Steam currently 300 are ported and the number is growing). As they have shown, PC gamers will get more bang out of their buck using their OS than Windows since the whole package will be optimized for gaming.
Now, don't compare it to your PC. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who owns a PS3/XBox360, doesn't own a gaming PC, and has $400 burning in their pockets for the next console release. What does a Steam Machine offer them?
* Cheaper games * More launch titles (300 so far + the unannounced AAA titles) * More precise FPS controller * Ability to stream games from their gaming PC (if they have one) * No monthly fee to play games online * Ability to use any controller they want - system is open and PS3 and Xbox 360 controllers already work with it. * Choice (and competition) of hardware providers * Ability to mod into a full fledged PC (remember the Sony other OS debacle?) * Upgradeable * Easier game acquisition. Why run to the store to get your game? Fire up Steam, click on the game, click buy, tell it "yes" to install, enjoy! * Game modding! * More/better patches for their games * More peripherals
The problem is the funding cuts are in a decidedly partisan matter.
If they're that concerned about meeting the budget then they are free to set a budget goal and work together (you know - bi-partisan like) to cut funding in a more even way. None of this:
Hey you know the law that passed years ago and we fought you tooth and nail on and tried to excise every little tidbit from? Yeah.... 41 votes and no success. Guess it's there for good eh? Well, we decided there's money for everything else *except* that. Weird huh? Like the cash ran out the instant we made it down to the Afordable Care Act. Whoopsie!
You know what the latest "compromise" was? To delay the individual mandate. So, for an extra year health insurance companies would be required to take people with pre-existing conditions, however, healthy persons could still opt out of coverage for an extra year. It's like they're trying to either bankrupt the insurance industry or present unworkable "compromises" to the Senate. Either way, they're negotiating in bad faith.
And given the sequester, Government has been losing workers, but that doesn't lessen the amount of work that needs to be done.
Another consideration. When issues like this happen in the government (or a shaky company), the first to leave are the best and brightest - you know, the guys with the actual qualifications who won't have a trouble finding another job.
If congress want to repeal Obamacare then they could, and should, try and pass a bill doing so
They say the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.
What is it called after you attempt the same thing fourty-two times ?
I think I'll have to try this new tea party bargaining method. See I have the keys to the office. I can refuse to let anyone in the building unless *I* get a raise and they agree to get rid of the healthy snacks in the vending machines.
Oddly enough there is middle ground, the only problem is the democrats aren't listening to the people.
A majority of the house of representatives could have passed a funding bill to keep the government going. But this bill won't see the floor. Why?
Because the "Majority of the majority" doesn't support it. There's your "will of the people", it's second to the will of the majority party. There is no more compromise (Oh? 230/435 congress persons want to pass a bill? Pity only 70 of those are in our party. No vote for you!).
So now our house of representatives can no longer represent the people. Only the whims of the majority party.
This is why the government is shut down. The majority party refused to allow vote on a budget that had *majority* support in the house, just because it wasn't the bill their party wanted.
And this is the overall issue. Representation in government has been co-opted by the political parties. They no longer represent the people in their districts, only their parties agenda.
How many people have bought Rokus or Tivos when they could just hook up a PC to their TV, install the right hardware, install the right software (Browser, Silverlight, MythTV) and get the same thing? Convenience.
The lack of convenience is what has been driving people away from PC gaming to the consoles. Why mess with drivers, OS updates, incompatibilities, updating your anti-virus, etc when you can just plop a game disk into your playstation or xbox and just enjoy the game.
Now if you already have a PC with steam installed, then you're not the main targeted demographic for SteamOS and/or the Steam Machines. Valve is (rightfully so) looking at all the peoples with wads of cash beating on the doors of Sony and Microsoft and asking themselves "What can we do to bring these people back to PC gaming?"
So now the consumers have another choice. The easy to use XBOX, Playstation, or pre-configured and ready to go Steam Machine by (Dell, Gateway, Alienware, HP). Just take it home, plug it into your tv, insert credit card, acquire games.
Already have the PC hardware? Get SteamOS and install it (or dual boot with your favorite OS) to get a similar experience. Want to leave the gaming rig upstairs while you chill on the couch? Get a smaller Steam Machine and stream your workhorse to your TV.
Their slogan should be: "Shh... No tears, only games"
> The phantom never even shipped anything, so it might not be fair to compare it.
True. Apparently they didn't have the content delivery side ironed out and investors may have been hesitant to pump more money into such an odd concept.
I'm just really stoked. This is such an awesome and smart move on Valve's part. Hopefully it will pay off for them like it did Google.
One huge bonus I could see really soon is more big box store PCs coming with proper video cards (or the better AMD APUs) instead of the crap integrated video they've been using while misdirecting the consumer with the "Gigs of Ram and Teras of Hard drive!"
So SteamOS will tread where Google (with Android) has before. Deliver a bridge to your content in the form of a streamlined OS. This is really going to give the common folk a console like experience (pick a game and play) while enjoying the benefits of gaming on a PC (upgrade ability, mods, better game prices).
Hopefully folks will be more agreeable to downloading their games and this will succeed where the Phantom failed!
Also 4) Improved HW support: they're already working on improving video drivers 5) Kernel improvements for gaming and lower latency user feedback. 6) Larger Linux install base and the attention that commands from S/W and H/W vendors.
The main purpose of the Steam OS currently will be to stream you games from your Windows or Mac desktop. The entire Steam game library doesn't suddenly work on Linux.
Must have missed this part:
Hundreds of great games are already running natively on SteamOS. Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014.
It's a *great* start! Sure it's not the *entire* Steam catalog, but as an install base of Steam Boxes builds up, more and more developers will be encouraged to include Linux on their ports.
The other point of the Steam OS (instead of using and established distro) is Valve can streamline the user experience and optimize the kernel for gaming (which most default kernels are optimized for servers).
Switched to an MVNO (Voyager Mobile) and it ended up costing $39 + Taxes and fees (which were substatinal) but still ended up being $48 for unlimited everything. For a two line family plan I was paying $144 a month (with limited minutes, unlimited everything else).
The one catch is that the MVNO has *no* roaming off it's network (which also happens to be Sprint) and of course no phone subsidies, though you can activate a good Sprint phone.
I figured the subsidy at about $300 per line per 2 years of contract or about $12.50 per line. Adding this I'm still saving $23 month with the MVNO (and really more since my last phone has lasted more than 2 years).
We do not nurture people to adulthood as a society. That is the responsibility of the parents.
I take it you've never heard of Child Services?
If we're going to say the government is the be all and end all, then why not go whole hog?
You mean why not go all slippery slope?
Your health is your responsibility, not mine.
Couldn't you apply the same logic to protection? "Can't afford a gun? Can't afford to protect your family!" How about education? "Can't afford an education? More jobs for *my* kids!"
That said, you asked what the benefits were, there they are. Your mechanic died due to lack of healthcare? Oh well, it's gonna take longer to get your car fixed and we're gonna have to charge extra to hire and train a new guy. Or do underpaid professionals not get sick in your world?
The main point is that society puts an investment in its citizens because *surprise* the citizens are part of the wealth of the country. If we lose 5% of our productive hours due to preventable or treatable illnesses, what would that do to our GDP?
Second point? Not everybody that gets sick deserves it and is a worthless human being. Get that through your head. Sometimes you're better off fixing something than throwing it away.
Let's make government our protectors and we can all share in the grief of higher taxes without personal responsibility.
Nice straw man. Just look at our current taxes + cost of private insurance (don't forget to include the portion your employer pays) vs what other countries with *better* systems pay in taxes + zero private, you'll see we're getting ripped off.
So to summarize, the problems with your arguments:
* You failed to address the facts presented (benefits of ensuring a healthy populace - see original post) * You employed several logical fallacies (Slippery slope, straw man) * You presented the same talking points (we get it, you don't want to pay for anything that would benefit other people) while failing to advance the discourse.
The difference is that police and education benefits the society as a whole. Forcing me to pay for your health insurance does not.
Follow this logic. We pay to educate, protect, and nurture citizens to adulthood. Why? As a country, having a large pool of versatile, healthy workers is a benefit. Why? Healthy citizens can work, pay taxes (fed/state income taxes, property taxes, gas tax, sales tax, FICA, etc, etc, etc), become consumers, etc.
What about reducing the time and cost of getting someone back to health? Most health issues can be resolved cheaply if addressed sooner. The sooner someone is brought back to health,the sooner they can return to contribute back to society and the less likely that a simple issue will cause permanent damage (a lifetime reduction in work output).
Of course, you're probably asking yourself: "How does this affect me?" Well, how are you affected by people being at their jobs? If your local auto shop has a mechanic get cancer, and he can't afford the treatment so it's go home and die time. Well how does it affect you that the shop went from 4 experienced mechanics to 3?
How are you affected by the fast food worker who was sick, but instead of getting help, he shows up at work to prepare *your* food because he can't afford to see a doctor and he surely can't afford to miss a day of pay.
How are your property values affected by the fact that there are two additional houses for sale in the neighborhood because the Smiths and the Jones had a family member get sick, couldn't stay at their job, couldn't keep their health insurance, and are forced to sell the house to make ends meet (or give it up since they can't make the monthly payments).
How does it affect me if you break your arm or due to your constant sucking down a 2 liter of Mountain Dew every day you get diabetes? It doesn't.
You seem to be under the impression that the only health issues people can be afflicted by are due to poor decisions or their own carelessness. You should look up how victims of the Boston bombing were covered for their medical care (many weren't and depended on donations), or the 9/11 early responders, or accident victims (before the insurance settlement comes in, many many months later), or perfectly healthy people who develop cancer, and so on.
For those following this thread and really hoping someone will say it, the show is Better Off Ted [imdb.com] .
The episode from this quote is from Season 1 Episode 2. All around great show. Both seasons are on Netflix and Amazon prime instant streaming. If the first couple of episodes don't convince you, jump to season 1 episode 12 "Jabberwocky". -- Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
Slashdot Mirror
This is exactly it. It's designed to be as comfortable and easy to hold as a gamepad, but get as close to mouse + keyboard precision. There are Linux drivers for the PS3 Six-axis or Dual Shock 3 and XBOX 360 controllers (which should work just fine in Steam OS).
People criticizing this for *not* copying the tried and true gamepad design (two analog sticks, 1 d-pad, 4 side buttons, etc) are like people critiquing a pickup truck or sports car for not seating 4 and having enough room for all their groceries.
Sidenote - for thoese banging their heads against the wall trying to use a PS3 DS3 controller in windows using motion joy this guy made an awesome alternative that I got working with two controllers and works just peachy with Steam Big Picture .
I see Chromebooks as:
1) For those who want to serf the web
Your page is ready m'lord.
Then that's anti-theism, not atheism.
It's like trying to say someone is an extreme non-sports fan. So extreme they'll go out of their way to ban all sports!
Just because someone doesn't see the benefit in playing golf (an ateeist) doesn't make them into a anti-golfist
Once most people are buying insurance through Obamacare
... You do realize there is no insurance plan that is "Obamacare". The public option was nixed in the Senate before the ACA was voted on. What we have now is are minimum standards which any health insurance provided can provide.
This is as idiotic as saying that the safety regulations imposed by the NHTA on automakers will lead to a "takeover of the auto industry. Just give it time and the NHTA will be the only game in town!"
Seriously, read up on the law.
I wish our energy was really spent figuring out why healthcare costs so much
If only our energy was spent on that and not wasted on putting the brakes on unsubstantiated rumors and right out fabrications.
Funny you mention medicare considering they run a 1% (6% if you include the privatized portion) overhead compared to the ~15-20% private insurers are bitching about having to adhere to .
Well the $400 is what the consumers would have (at a minimum) due to the console launch prices. Remember though that they'll have to plunk down $60 for a game if these releases are like the last gen (no pack in games).
I'd guess the Steam machines will have a target price of $400 to $500 (then again there will be different hardware vendors, so there will be *choice*). I don't see $100 extra being a hard up-sell considering the benefits I pointed out above (particularly cheaper games, more launch titles, free online play, and the option to turn it into a full fledged PC).
I wouldn't be surprised if Valve didn't already set a minimum spec for Steam Machines which makes a great target for developers (your game should be playable/enjoyable with a PC with these specs but can obviously have features enabled for higher versions of the Steam Machine.
I am hoping they give the machines benchmarks to reach and assign them levels (so at launch they sell Level 1 Steam Machines for $400, Level 2 $500, etc) so that years down the line (think 3-5) they can release higher levels and just update game requirements with a blurb like "Minimum Steam Machines Level 2, works best on Steam Machine level 5". Steam Machine Level 0 could be a box that can only play old ports, simple indy games, and is mainly intended to stream from a high level machine or a home gaming PC.
Regarding the hardware profits, that's for the partners to worry about. Valve just wants to sell games. That's where they make money from. And surely the hardware vendors are stoked to find a way to save the fledgling PC hardware business.
These builds are substantially cheaper than the piston and closer to the $400 mark above . Surely a hardware company buying parts in bulk can squeeze an even better deal.
Hey may not do this. But many people do.
How do you think GameStop keeps such a healthy inventory of used games?
But now thanks to the magic of upgrades and PC game modding, games you already own on the SteamBox *can* look/run better as the years move on (without having to wait for the re-released collection edition for the new console).
The Steam Machine seems like yet another settop box that would allow you to remote into your gaming computer from your entertainment center.
This is where you missed the bigger point. The Steam machine can have different iterations and the most popular won't be just "streaming machines", the streaming option is there to answer to two things: "But I wanna play my windows games!" "Or I'd love to keep my battlestation PC in it's room, but occasionally game on the couch and I don't want to pay for two gaming pc's!"
The most promising is a self contained gaming system which will use Valve's optimized operating system - SteamOS (based on Linux) with new "AAA titles coming soon" and with the bonus of running any steam games you currently have that already have Linux ports (of the 3,000 games on Steam currently 300 are ported and the number is growing). As they have shown, PC gamers will get more bang out of their buck using their OS than Windows since the whole package will be optimized for gaming.
Now, don't compare it to your PC. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who owns a PS3/XBox360, doesn't own a gaming PC, and has $400 burning in their pockets for the next console release. What does a Steam Machine offer them?
* Cheaper games
* More launch titles (300 so far + the unannounced AAA titles)
* More precise FPS controller
* Ability to stream games from their gaming PC (if they have one)
* No monthly fee to play games online
* Ability to use any controller they want - system is open and PS3 and Xbox 360 controllers already work with it.
* Choice (and competition) of hardware providers
* Ability to mod into a full fledged PC (remember the Sony other OS debacle?)
* Upgradeable
* Easier game acquisition. Why run to the store to get your game? Fire up Steam, click on the game, click buy, tell it "yes" to install, enjoy!
* Game modding!
* More/better patches for their games
* More peripherals
The problem is the funding cuts are in a decidedly partisan matter.
If they're that concerned about meeting the budget then they are free to set a budget goal and work together (you know - bi-partisan like) to cut funding in a more even way. None of this:
Hey you know the law that passed years ago and we fought you tooth and nail on and tried to excise every little tidbit from? Yeah.... 41 votes and no success. Guess it's there for good eh? Well, we decided there's money for everything else *except* that. Weird huh? Like the cash ran out the instant we made it down to the Afordable Care Act. Whoopsie!
Of course that's also ignoring the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) and OMB (Office of Management and Budget) show that the ACA will actually work to reduce the defecit .
You know what the latest "compromise" was? To delay the individual mandate. So, for an extra year health insurance companies would be required to take people with pre-existing conditions, however, healthy persons could still opt out of coverage for an extra year. It's like they're trying to either bankrupt the insurance industry or present unworkable "compromises" to the Senate. Either way, they're negotiating in bad faith.
And given the sequester, Government has been losing workers, but that doesn't lessen the amount of work that needs to be done.
Another consideration. When issues like this happen in the government (or a shaky company), the first to leave are the best and brightest - you know, the guys with the actual qualifications who won't have a trouble finding another job.
If congress want to repeal Obamacare then they could, and should, try and pass a bill doing so
They say the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.
What is it called after you attempt the same thing fourty-two times ?
I think I'll have to try this new tea party bargaining method. See I have the keys to the office. I can refuse to let anyone in the building unless *I* get a raise and they agree to get rid of the healthy snacks in the vending machines.
Oddly enough there is middle ground, the only problem is the democrats aren't listening to the people.
A majority of the house of representatives could have passed a funding bill to keep the government going. But this bill won't see the floor. Why?
Because the "Majority of the majority" doesn't support it. There's your "will of the people", it's second to the will of the majority party. There is no more compromise (Oh? 230/435 congress persons want to pass a bill? Pity only 70 of those are in our party. No vote for you!).
So now our house of representatives can no longer represent the people. Only the whims of the majority party.
This is why the government is shut down. The majority party refused to allow vote on a budget that had *majority* support in the house, just because it wasn't the bill their party wanted.
And this is the overall issue. Representation in government has been co-opted by the political parties. They no longer represent the people in their districts, only their parties agenda.
Read more about the Hastert rule and find out where the fault really lies and stop spreading talking points .
Eat bugs? No thanks
Hey now! There's nothing wrong with the McRib.
One word: Convenience.
How many people have bought Rokus or Tivos when they could just hook up a PC to their TV, install the right hardware, install the right software (Browser, Silverlight, MythTV) and get the same thing? Convenience.
The lack of convenience is what has been driving people away from PC gaming to the consoles. Why mess with drivers, OS updates, incompatibilities, updating your anti-virus, etc when you can just plop a game disk into your playstation or xbox and just enjoy the game.
Now if you already have a PC with steam installed, then you're not the main targeted demographic for SteamOS and/or the Steam Machines. Valve is (rightfully so) looking at all the peoples with wads of cash beating on the doors of Sony and Microsoft and asking themselves "What can we do to bring these people back to PC gaming?"
So now the consumers have another choice. The easy to use XBOX, Playstation, or pre-configured and ready to go Steam Machine by (Dell, Gateway, Alienware, HP). Just take it home, plug it into your tv, insert credit card, acquire games.
Already have the PC hardware? Get SteamOS and install it (or dual boot with your favorite OS) to get a similar experience. Want to leave the gaming rig upstairs while you chill on the couch? Get a smaller Steam Machine and stream your workhorse to your TV.
Their slogan should be: "Shh... No tears, only games"
> The phantom never even shipped anything, so it might not be fair to compare it.
True. Apparently they didn't have the content delivery side ironed out and investors may have been hesitant to pump more money into such an odd concept.
I'm just really stoked. This is such an awesome and smart move on Valve's part. Hopefully it will pay off for them like it did Google.
One huge bonus I could see really soon is more big box store PCs coming with proper video cards (or the better AMD APUs) instead of the crap integrated video they've been using while misdirecting the consumer with the "Gigs of Ram and Teras of Hard drive!"
So SteamOS will tread where Google (with Android) has before. Deliver a bridge to your content in the form of a streamlined OS. This is really going to give the common folk a console like experience (pick a game and play) while enjoying the benefits of gaming on a PC (upgrade ability, mods, better game prices).
Hopefully folks will be more agreeable to downloading their games and this will succeed where the Phantom failed!
I'll happily swear that Genghis Khan has been reincarnated, and his hordes are now using computers instead of ponies.
Ah yes, the Mongolian Electronic Army.
Only the great firewall of China can save us now!
Also
4) Improved HW support: they're already working on improving video drivers
5) Kernel improvements for gaming and lower latency user feedback.
6) Larger Linux install base and the attention that commands from S/W and H/W vendors.
The main purpose of the Steam OS currently will be to stream you games from your Windows or Mac desktop. The entire Steam game library doesn't suddenly work on Linux.
Must have missed this part:
Hundreds of great games are already running natively on SteamOS. Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014.
It's a *great* start! Sure it's not the *entire* Steam catalog, but as an install base of Steam Boxes builds up, more and more developers will be encouraged to include Linux on their ports.
The other point of the Steam OS (instead of using and established distro) is Valve can streamline the user experience and optimize the kernel for gaming (which most default kernels are optimized for servers).
Switched to an MVNO (Voyager Mobile) and it ended up costing $39 + Taxes and fees (which were substatinal) but still ended up being $48 for unlimited everything. For a two line family plan I was paying $144 a month (with limited minutes, unlimited everything else).
The one catch is that the MVNO has *no* roaming off it's network (which also happens to be Sprint) and of course no phone subsidies, though you can activate a good Sprint phone.
I figured the subsidy at about $300 per line per 2 years of contract or about $12.50 per line. Adding this I'm still saving $23 month with the MVNO (and really more since my last phone has lasted more than 2 years).
I think I'm getting a new bike and a tablet this weekend!
Wow, those Windows RT promotions are getting out of hand...
We do not nurture people to adulthood as a society. That is the responsibility of the parents.
I take it you've never heard of Child Services?
If we're going to say the government is the be all and end all, then why not go whole hog?
You mean why not go all slippery slope?
Your health is your responsibility, not mine.
Couldn't you apply the same logic to protection? "Can't afford a gun? Can't afford to protect your family!" How about education? "Can't afford an education? More jobs for *my* kids!"
That said, you asked what the benefits were, there they are. Your mechanic died due to lack of healthcare? Oh well, it's gonna take longer to get your car fixed and we're gonna have to charge extra to hire and train a new guy. Or do underpaid professionals not get sick in your world?
The main point is that society puts an investment in its citizens because *surprise* the citizens are part of the wealth of the country. If we lose 5% of our productive hours due to preventable or treatable illnesses, what would that do to our GDP?
Second point? Not everybody that gets sick deserves it and is a worthless human being. Get that through your head. Sometimes you're better off fixing something than throwing it away.
Let's make government our protectors and we can all share in the grief of higher taxes without personal responsibility.
Nice straw man. Just look at our current taxes + cost of private insurance (don't forget to include the portion your employer pays) vs what other countries with *better* systems pay in taxes + zero private, you'll see we're getting ripped off.
So to summarize, the problems with your arguments:
* You failed to address the facts presented (benefits of ensuring a healthy populace - see original post)
* You employed several logical fallacies (Slippery slope, straw man)
* You presented the same talking points (we get it, you don't want to pay for anything that would benefit other people) while failing to advance the discourse.
The difference is that police and education benefits the society as a whole. Forcing me to pay for your health insurance does not.
Follow this logic. We pay to educate, protect, and nurture citizens to adulthood. Why? As a country, having a large pool of versatile, healthy workers is a benefit. Why? Healthy citizens can work, pay taxes (fed/state income taxes, property taxes, gas tax, sales tax, FICA, etc, etc, etc), become consumers, etc.
What about reducing the time and cost of getting someone back to health? Most health issues can be resolved cheaply if addressed sooner. The sooner someone is brought back to health,the sooner they can return to contribute back to society and the less likely that a simple issue will cause permanent damage (a lifetime reduction in work output).
Of course, you're probably asking yourself: "How does this affect me?" Well, how are you affected by people being at their jobs? If your local auto shop has a mechanic get cancer, and he can't afford the treatment so it's go home and die time. Well how does it affect you that the shop went from 4 experienced mechanics to 3?
How are you affected by the fast food worker who was sick, but instead of getting help, he shows up at work to prepare *your* food because he can't afford to see a doctor and he surely can't afford to miss a day of pay.
How are your property values affected by the fact that there are two additional houses for sale in the neighborhood because the Smiths and the Jones had a family member get sick, couldn't stay at their job, couldn't keep their health insurance, and are forced to sell the house to make ends meet (or give it up since they can't make the monthly payments).
How does it affect me if you break your arm or due to your constant sucking down a 2 liter of Mountain Dew every day you get diabetes? It doesn't.
You seem to be under the impression that the only health issues people can be afflicted by are due to poor decisions or their own carelessness. You should look up how victims of the Boston bombing were covered for their medical care (many weren't and depended on donations), or the 9/11 early responders, or accident victims (before the insurance settlement comes in, many many months later), or perfectly healthy people who develop cancer, and so on.
is Fukushima Springs some new resort or day spa?
It's a hot springs. Come in and let the steamy hot water melt away all your stress!
Aww geeze. Ignore the above comment. Meant to post it further below.
For those following this thread and really hoping someone will say it, the show is Better Off Ted [imdb.com] .
The episode from this quote is from Season 1 Episode 2. All around great show. Both seasons are on Netflix and Amazon prime instant streaming. If the first couple of episodes don't convince you, jump to season 1 episode 12 "Jabberwocky".
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