This discussion reminds me of when SF2 (and it's multiple iterations and clones) came out. Years went bye and people were still "stuck" in SF II Hyper Fighting.
Alas, I think that I have friends that get together every Sunday and for sure there will be sessions of SF, KoF, etc. for at least an hour.
I am sure that more 16 bit games would have been sold if those 1-1 fighting games would not have been released (*)
I think the writer of the article failed to depict what really marked Sega's doom.
1. SEGA FAILED TO LISTEN TO THEIR CONSUMERS DURING THE TRANSITION TO 16 TO 32 BITS 2. EXTERNALITIES FINISHED SEGA
Let's analyze Sega's success during the 16bit era:
* Successfully executed a 1st moving advantage move: By the time Nintendo came out with the SNES, Sega was developing their 2nd Generation software (Sonic, Shinobi 3, Madden, etc.). Let's be realistic, their 1st gen stuff (Altered Beast, Super Thunder Blade, Golden Axe was very very bad, they were basically technical showcases. No exciting gameplay whatsoever.) The big exception is Phantasy Star II. It served the purpose of turning heads.
* Tapped on the American thirst for high end Sports Simulations: EA's lineup (Madden, college and other franchises) were the start of advanced sports franshises (The NES offerings featured many Super Deformed characters, other than Tecmo's entries, there were no serious sports on the NES).
* Started the successful bashing of Nintendo: While Nintendo NEVER acknolwedged Sega as a competitor (Big example: Nintendo did not Advertise on any Videogame publications, they stuck to Nintendo Power), Sega exploited with "Sega Does what Nintendon't" campaign, the "Blast Processing" campaign against the SNES (which was all Bull... a good lesson that has been applied by Sony in the past generations). This set up the precedent that you can win or slow down a platform on pure marketing speculation.
* Capitalized on a Mainstream Platform: The SNES featured a slower more processor that was more tailored for games, while the 6800 on the Genesis was a more general-purpose and well known platform- This allowed many western developers from Amiga and Commodore to jump and put out impressive software - up to that point, many people thought that American/European developers were not capable of putting out quality products.
* Played ball with 3rd parties: This is partly Nintendo's own making (Read "Game Over"). Once Sega became a "friendlier" player with 3rd parties, the "crown jewel" developers started publishing games on the Genesis. Nintendo managed to hold off Capcom on Street Fighter II (The main Reason why the SNES caught up with the Genesis), but ultimately SFII made it to the Genesis.
After all this success, it was a dogfight, Sega started preparing for the next generation, and Nintendo tried to defuse Sega by speculating on a Nintendo CD (The Phillips/Sony debacle that interestingly was the root of the creation of the Playstation)
At this point Sega put out probably their best technological lineup (examples: Vectorman, Treasure's Gunstar Heroes, Sonic 3 etc.) but Nintendo had the goves off with Starfox, FFIII, the upcoming Donkey Kong, etc. Sega thinks they can replicate 1st mover advantage with a CD platform. Sega CD comes out, and other than Silpheed and Sonic CD and Starwars, the platform is plagued with FMV Crap. So they started developing a next gen 2d platform (Saturn). (ERROR 1: Instead of looking at the future, they decided to fight Nintendo on 2D - They didn't see Virtua Fighter at the arcades???).
At some point during Saturn's development, the biggest mistake is made. For some reason somebody thinks that they can release an 32 bit "add-on" to capitalize on the Genesis installed base. The 32x is born. Sorry Sega, no add on has been successful!!! (Interestingly, some people have not learned this lesson yet; read: Microsoft's Xbox 360's HD-DVD rumored add on).
At this point, the consumer must be very confused. Should we wait for Saturn or buy 32x??? I would have paid money to see those marketing staff meetings.
Final Nail in the coffin: Sony unveils the PlayStation (externality) and Sega rushes to add 3D capabilities to their pure 2D platform. With an overpriced platform that is very hard to program for, Sega manages to release many beautiful games (some of which never make it to our shores). The rest is history, Nintendo blunders again by undermining 3rd parties and ignoring the media leap, and it's all Sony.
Let's hope that we have a dogfight again soon... we will stand to win like we did during the 16bit days.
"There's simply no profit in challenging Nintendo's dominance in the handheld market."
Although I've traditionally sided with Nintendo, I must say that I don't agree with this statement. Competition is always encouraged. What I've noticed is that Nintendo has seen no benefit from going into a hardware "Arms war" in the primary console market and they've learned from that, hence the DS and the Wii. The benefit to them is an expanding consumer base, and the benefit to us is less of the "same old, same old"(*)
If the maket leader doesn't see their dominance threatened, they won't be forced to innovate (oh.. unless you're Sony and all the 3rd parties are riding on the installed base and brand loyalty)
(*) Before you anybody jumps into the franchise debate: There's a big difference between reusing characters in games with evolved gameplay and interactivity, AND just re-releasing the same game with improved graphics and sound.
AFAIK, Xbox/Xbox360 are just bleeding money on this business unit. Why would MS rush into a secondary market when they haven't even made money on the primary market? It makes sense to do some R&D, but a 2007 release is unlikely. But... with Zillions in cash reserves and not being apologetic about their operating costs, anything is possible.
That only the people who follow the industry (hardcore gamers or not) are the only people aware of all the reasons not to buy the PS3. However, Sony will still these overpriced piece of hardware like hotcakes. Having a PS3 will be more like a status symbol, and we're in a society where "keeping up with the Jones" is a major driver.
Long live great games (regardless of the console) and competition (because it benefits us).
In the past QA for games was much more vital due to the media (cartridges). I don't doubt that developers are also pushing for online features so they can push more games out the door, rather than focusing on delivering a finished product.
It's all about getting the buck as soon as possible for them. Bugs... let's worry about those later.
Rather than worrying about Mac Ports, Windows Vista compatibility, and impending Apple/MS Doom, the focus should be in this:
What are Dell, HP, Lenovo going to do now????
Provided that this is the start of a STABLE windows load on Mac platforms. We'll see a lot of corporations using iBooks/MacBooks/Mac Minis for their solutions.
I think this makes Apple a viable platform for the enterprise. And maybe, who knows... a migration point to OS X, now that the investment got smaller.
I noticed this story on the same link. I figured I post it here since it doesn't meet the usual "Nintendo is doomed" criteria for being published.
"Profits Double For Nintendo On DS Success
Officials from Nintendo have announced the company's third quarter results, with profits more than doubling for the company, from ¥21.3 billion ($183.7m) in the same period in 2004 to ¥55.66 billion ($480.3m) in 2005, thanks to continued strong sales of the Nintendo DS handheld, specifically in Japan but also elsewhere in the world.
Operating profit for the company was roughly flat compared to the previous year at ¥63.17 billion ($544.9m). Following these positive results, the company has kept to its full year estimates of a net profit of ¥75 billion ($646.9m), compared to ¥87.4 billion ($754.0m) a year earlier.
The company has also kept its full year unit sales forecasts for the Nintendo DS, Game Boy Advance and GameCube unchanged, despite poor sales of the latter contributing to disappointing results in previous quarters this year.
Software sales during the all-important Christmas sales period were said to be strong, but as normal the company's vacillating profits were equally influenced by its enormous foreign currency holdings, with an overall war chest now estimated to be worth close to $10 billion.
Share in the company closed up 1 percent at ¥16,380 ($141.3) on Thursday. Overall, over the first nine months of the current financial year, shares in Nintendo have risen an impressive 23.3 percent."
P
Please, mod this AC up. Although it may sound arrogant at first, knowing how hard it is to invade the portable market with Nintendo there with a tight grip, having a "media machine" may turn out to be a blessing for Sony. If they can't compete in games, focus on other stuff.
Title: Vulnerability in Graphics Rendering Engine Could Allow Remote Code Execution (912919)
Affected Software:
Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 4
Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 1 and Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2
Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 and Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 for Itanium-based Systems and Microsoft Windows Server 2003 with SP1 for Itanium-based Systems
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 x64 Edition
Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition (SE), and Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition (ME) - Review the FAQ section of the bulletin for details about these operating systems.
I think that the problem after being a Videogame industry consumer and enthusiast is that gamers don't really know how to debate about these kinds of stories.
You can debate about the quality of the games or You can debate about the financial welfare of a company(*)
People just usually mix them.. person X might say, "Nintendo is for kids" then person Y replies, "But they're making money" - this is when you detect an argument that will go south.
It is true that nintendo is the most profitable of the videogame companies, but also the one that is selling less (IN THE US) in the TV console market - GC development support is lacking due to the current multiplatform development model. That doesn't mean that GC users aren't getting more utility for their games than their Xbox or PS2 counterparts.
After many years of Fanboyism, I realized that the best is owning all consoles and picking the best games. However, once you work, a wife/gf, and kids, time is a premium, so I stick to what Nintendo has to offer and just rent a system whenever something special comes out for another console.
Oh well... now flame on!
(*)Note that I didn't mention the debate about the capabilities of consoles because that is basically irrelevant. That is why Sony and Microsoft's strategy is to generalize (media center), rather than specialize (videogame console). Nintendo knows this, and sticks to their core competencies- MS and Sony know that fighting nintendo there would be infeasible over time because they'll have to concede too much potential profit to the developers to encourage them to develop for their consoles.
Just to be clear from the begining: I don't disagree with you. Your underlying assumption is that Microsoft's core competency is software development, however, I think that's debatable. Over the years they've demostrated that they are a better Marketing company than a software development company.
They happen to be very fast to identify consumer needs or technology trends (either by researching or copying others) and integrate them quickly in their product portfolio. I think that aggresive way to integrate new features tends to help a lot in writing bad code.
It's not until lately, due to the size of the company and layers of bureocracy that MS is having a tough time releasing products and features to market quick enough. Since the birth of the internet they have been very reactive, but now it's taking them longer to react to the market realities and trends.
In business there's a concept called "Price Signaling", considering that both the Xbox360 and the PS3 will be "home entertainment hubs", count on them setting the tone of the price to minimize the loss in the hardware. I would not be surprised if Microsoft starts at $449 and Sony follows suit.
In the early adopter phase those systems are more a "fashion thing" value-added than the entertainment provided by first generation games.
Back in 1992 I said the same thing about Sonic The Hedgehog never making an appearance on a Nintendo console.
Of course, Sega has been traditionally worse managed by Sony. But you never know. With all 3 consoles converging in the same technologies (Power Processors, PC-grade graphics cards) and with the rising cost of making a game, I believe that a common gaming development platform is not a crazy idea.
Because MS seems to be walking in a circle....
More power...
More graphics...
More recurring-cost-online features...
More Halo (only + until we get tired)...
More high budgets...
More of the same cross-platform titles...
Things to go 180 on:
- Size of the console
- Patch oriented mentality
- No more thinking we're "MTV"-watching airhead teenage boys/girls
- Trying to tell us what to do with our hardware
- Embrace modding (and yes, protect your revenue flow)
Re:$99 The sweet spot for ANY videogame console
on
PSP Not A Sellout Hit
·
· Score: 1
My original post refers to quality (yes, I'm thinking Sony as I write this)
And yes, I do agree with you. Newer Xbox iterations are harder to Mod and the dreamcast was crippled.
I don't see the rationale for Nintendo to eliminate the PScan from the GCube.
On the same token, newer PS2s have the Ethernet port built-in, 2nd gen and up xboxes have the revised controller and the newest probably have the fire hazard bug corrected.
Slashdot Mirror
This discussion reminds me of when SF2 (and it's multiple iterations and clones) came out.
Years went bye and people were still "stuck" in SF II Hyper Fighting.
Alas, I think that I have friends that get together every Sunday and for sure there will be sessions of SF, KoF, etc. for at least an hour.
I am sure that more 16 bit games would have been sold if those 1-1 fighting games would not have been released (*)
(*) Arguably...
I think the writer of the article failed to depict what really marked Sega's doom.
1. SEGA FAILED TO LISTEN TO THEIR CONSUMERS DURING THE TRANSITION TO 16 TO 32 BITS
2. EXTERNALITIES FINISHED SEGA
Let's analyze Sega's success during the 16bit era:
* Successfully executed a 1st moving advantage move: By the time Nintendo came out with the SNES, Sega was developing their 2nd Generation software (Sonic, Shinobi 3, Madden, etc.). Let's be realistic, their 1st gen stuff (Altered Beast, Super Thunder Blade, Golden Axe was very very bad, they were basically technical showcases. No exciting gameplay whatsoever.) The big exception is Phantasy Star II. It served the purpose of turning heads.
* Tapped on the American thirst for high end Sports Simulations: EA's lineup (Madden, college and other franchises) were the start of advanced sports franshises (The NES offerings featured many Super Deformed characters, other than Tecmo's entries, there were no serious sports on the NES).
* Started the successful bashing of Nintendo: While Nintendo NEVER acknolwedged Sega as a competitor (Big example: Nintendo did not Advertise on any Videogame publications, they stuck to Nintendo Power), Sega exploited with "Sega Does what Nintendon't" campaign, the "Blast Processing" campaign against the SNES (which was all Bull... a good lesson that has been applied by Sony in the past generations). This set up the precedent that you can win or slow down a platform on pure marketing speculation.
* Capitalized on a Mainstream Platform: The SNES featured a slower more processor that was more tailored for games, while the 6800 on the Genesis was a more general-purpose and well known platform- This allowed many western developers from Amiga and Commodore to jump and put out impressive software - up to that point, many people thought that American/European developers were not capable of putting out quality products.
* Played ball with 3rd parties: This is partly Nintendo's own making (Read "Game Over"). Once Sega became a "friendlier" player with 3rd parties, the "crown jewel" developers started publishing games on the Genesis. Nintendo managed to hold off Capcom on Street Fighter II (The main Reason why the SNES caught up with the Genesis), but ultimately SFII made it to the Genesis.
After all this success, it was a dogfight, Sega started preparing for the next generation, and Nintendo tried to defuse Sega by speculating on a Nintendo CD (The Phillips/Sony debacle that interestingly was the root of the creation of the Playstation)
At this point Sega put out probably their best technological lineup (examples: Vectorman, Treasure's Gunstar Heroes, Sonic 3 etc.) but Nintendo had the goves off with Starfox, FFIII, the upcoming Donkey Kong, etc. Sega thinks they can replicate 1st mover advantage with a CD platform. Sega CD comes out, and other than Silpheed and Sonic CD and Starwars, the platform is plagued with FMV Crap. So they started developing a next gen 2d platform (Saturn). (ERROR 1: Instead of looking at the future, they decided to fight Nintendo on 2D - They didn't see Virtua Fighter at the arcades???).
At some point during Saturn's development, the biggest mistake is made. For some reason somebody thinks that they can release an 32 bit "add-on" to capitalize on the Genesis installed base. The 32x is born. Sorry Sega, no add on has been successful!!! (Interestingly, some people have not learned this lesson yet; read: Microsoft's Xbox 360's HD-DVD rumored add on).
At this point, the consumer must be very confused. Should we wait for Saturn or buy 32x??? I would have paid money to see those marketing staff meetings.
Final Nail in the coffin: Sony unveils the PlayStation (externality) and Sega rushes to add 3D capabilities to their pure 2D platform. With an overpriced platform that is very hard to program for, Sega manages to release many beautiful games (some of which never make it to our shores). The rest is history, Nintendo blunders again by undermining 3rd parties and ignoring the media leap, and it's all Sony.
Let's hope that we have a dogfight again soon... we will stand to win like we did during the 16bit days.
Although I've traditionally sided with Nintendo, I must say that I don't agree with this statement. Competition is always encouraged. What I've noticed is that Nintendo has seen no benefit from going into a hardware "Arms war" in the primary console market and they've learned from that, hence the DS and the Wii. The benefit to them is an expanding consumer base, and the benefit to us is less of the "same old, same old"(*)
If the maket leader doesn't see their dominance threatened, they won't be forced to innovate (oh.. unless you're Sony and all the 3rd parties are riding on the installed base and brand loyalty)
(*) Before you anybody jumps into the franchise debate: There's a big difference between reusing characters in games with evolved gameplay and interactivity, AND just re-releasing the same game with improved graphics and sound.
AFAIK, Xbox/Xbox360 are just bleeding money on this business unit.
Why would MS rush into a secondary market when they haven't even made money on the primary market?
It makes sense to do some R&D, but a 2007 release is unlikely.
But... with Zillions in cash reserves and not being apologetic about their operating costs, anything is possible.
... once certain amount of copies have been sold.
Sad. But possible.
I know, I know... then it opens the door for piracy, hacking, etc.
That only the people who follow the industry (hardcore gamers or not) are the only people aware of all the reasons not to buy the PS3. However, Sony will still these overpriced piece of hardware like hotcakes. Having a PS3 will be more like a status symbol, and we're in a society where "keeping up with the Jones" is a major driver.
Long live great games (regardless of the console) and competition (because it benefits us).
It's all about the Yen/Dollar exchange rate. It makes better business sense to hold off on that. Everyone knows who's cheapest of the bunch.
in the PC gaming world.
In the past QA for games was much more vital due to the media (cartridges). I don't doubt that developers are also pushing for online features so they can push more games out the door, rather than focusing on delivering a finished product.
It's all about getting the buck as soon as possible for them. Bugs... let's worry about those later.
Rather than worrying about Mac Ports, Windows Vista compatibility, and impending Apple/MS Doom, the focus should be in this:
What are Dell, HP, Lenovo going to do now????
Provided that this is the start of a STABLE windows load on Mac platforms. We'll see a lot of corporations using iBooks/MacBooks/Mac Minis for their solutions.
I think this makes Apple a viable platform for the enterprise. And maybe, who knows... a migration point to OS X, now that the investment got smaller.
I noticed this story on the same link. I figured I post it here since it doesn't meet the usual "Nintendo is doomed" criteria for being published. "Profits Double For Nintendo On DS Success Officials from Nintendo have announced the company's third quarter results, with profits more than doubling for the company, from ¥21.3 billion ($183.7m) in the same period in 2004 to ¥55.66 billion ($480.3m) in 2005, thanks to continued strong sales of the Nintendo DS handheld, specifically in Japan but also elsewhere in the world. Operating profit for the company was roughly flat compared to the previous year at ¥63.17 billion ($544.9m). Following these positive results, the company has kept to its full year estimates of a net profit of ¥75 billion ($646.9m), compared to ¥87.4 billion ($754.0m) a year earlier. The company has also kept its full year unit sales forecasts for the Nintendo DS, Game Boy Advance and GameCube unchanged, despite poor sales of the latter contributing to disappointing results in previous quarters this year. Software sales during the all-important Christmas sales period were said to be strong, but as normal the company's vacillating profits were equally influenced by its enormous foreign currency holdings, with an overall war chest now estimated to be worth close to $10 billion. Share in the company closed up 1 percent at ¥16,380 ($141.3) on Thursday. Overall, over the first nine months of the current financial year, shares in Nintendo have risen an impressive 23.3 percent." P
Please, mod this AC up.
Although it may sound arrogant at first, knowing how hard it is to invade the portable market with Nintendo there with a tight grip, having a "media machine" may turn out to be a blessing for Sony. If they can't compete in games, focus on other stuff.
He could have answered:
n /ms06-jan.mspx
n /MS06-001.mspx
Microsoft is releasing the following security bulletins for newly discovered vulnerabilities:
Microsoft is releasing the following security bulletin for newly discovered vulnerabilities:
Critical MS06-001 Microsoft Windows Remote Code Execution
Summaries for these new bulletins may be found at the following pages:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulleti
MS06-001
Title: Vulnerability in Graphics Rendering Engine Could Allow Remote Code Execution (912919)
Affected Software:
Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 4
Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 1 and Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2
Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 and Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 for Itanium-based Systems and Microsoft Windows Server 2003 with SP1 for Itanium-based Systems
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 x64 Edition
Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition (SE), and Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition (ME) - Review the FAQ section of the bulletin for details about these operating systems.
Impact of Vulnerability: Remote Code Execution
Maximum Severity Rating:
Restart required: Yes
Update can be uninstalled: Yes
More information on this vulnerability is available at: http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulleti
PLEASE VISIT http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security FOR THE MOST CURRENT INFORMATION ON THESE ALERTS.
I think that the problem after being a Videogame industry consumer and enthusiast is that gamers don't really know how to debate about these kinds of stories.
You can debate about the quality of the games or
You can debate about the financial welfare of a company(*)
People just usually mix them.. person X might say, "Nintendo is for kids" then person Y replies, "But they're making money" - this is when you detect an argument that will go south.
It is true that nintendo is the most profitable of the videogame companies, but also the one that is selling less (IN THE US) in the TV console market - GC development support is lacking due to the current multiplatform development model. That doesn't mean that GC users aren't getting more utility for their games than their Xbox or PS2 counterparts.
After many years of Fanboyism, I realized that the best is owning all consoles and picking the best games. However, once you work, a wife/gf, and kids, time is a premium, so I stick to what Nintendo has to offer and just rent a system whenever something special comes out for another console.
Oh well... now flame on!
(*)Note that I didn't mention the debate about the capabilities of consoles because that is basically irrelevant. That is why Sony and Microsoft's strategy is to generalize (media center), rather than specialize (videogame console). Nintendo knows this, and sticks to their core competencies- MS and Sony know that fighting nintendo there would be infeasible over time because they'll have to concede too much potential profit to the developers to encourage them to develop for their consoles.
Just to be clear from the begining: I don't disagree with you.
Your underlying assumption is that Microsoft's core competency is software development, however, I think that's debatable. Over the years they've demostrated that they are a better Marketing company than a software development company.
They happen to be very fast to identify consumer needs or technology trends (either by researching or copying others) and integrate them quickly in their product portfolio. I think that aggresive way to integrate new features tends to help a lot in writing bad code.
It's not until lately, due to the size of the company and layers of bureocracy that MS is having a tough time releasing products and features to market quick enough. Since the birth of the internet they have been very reactive, but now it's taking them longer to react to the market realities and trends.
start your engines...
Some of those unskippable cut scenes are used to disguise loading.
Because things in apple platforms just work.
Many people are getting tired to hack away to get a simple driver working in Linux.
Linux is great for IT in general, but he might not be that off after all.
Bye bye Karma.
In business there's a concept called "Price Signaling", considering that both the Xbox360 and the PS3 will be "home entertainment hubs", count on them setting the tone of the price to minimize the loss in the hardware. I would not be surprised if Microsoft starts at $449 and Sony follows suit. In the early adopter phase those systems are more a "fashion thing" value-added than the entertainment provided by first generation games.
Dude, never say never.
Back in 1992 I said the same thing about Sonic The Hedgehog never making an appearance on a Nintendo console.
Of course, Sega has been traditionally worse managed by Sony. But you never know. With all 3 consoles converging in the same technologies (Power Processors, PC-grade graphics cards) and with the rising cost of making a game, I believe that a common gaming development platform is not a crazy idea.
Why don't we give this guy his own slashdot section?
Hey, Taco, let me save you some time, here's the URL
http://dvorak.slashdot.org/
Dude, that's because you probably have a different machine to store your p0rn
The bigger you are, the easier you are to target. Both by lovers and haters. BTW, this was an old feature of google though.
Because MS seems to be walking in a circle.... More power... More graphics... More recurring-cost-online features... More Halo (only + until we get tired)... More high budgets... More of the same cross-platform titles... Things to go 180 on: - Size of the console - Patch oriented mentality - No more thinking we're "MTV"-watching airhead teenage boys/girls - Trying to tell us what to do with our hardware - Embrace modding (and yes, protect your revenue flow)
I say wait until SP2.
My original post refers to quality (yes, I'm thinking Sony as I write this)
And yes, I do agree with you. Newer Xbox iterations are harder to Mod and the dreamcast was crippled.
I don't see the rationale for Nintendo to eliminate the PScan from the GCube.
On the same token, newer PS2s have the Ethernet port built-in, 2nd gen and up xboxes have the revised controller and the newest probably have the fire hazard bug corrected.