To everyone saying this will kill the independent distro, chill.
amen. i don't think this is as big a deal as all the chicken-little posts i've seen so far seem to believe. many distros already patch the kernel themselves, and Linus & Co. know this, so they're making allowances for it in the early life of 2.6. it may actually result in better development, because the distro kernel hacks may come up with something really groovy that Linus's team didn't see.
i've been using 2.6 since pre-7, or thereabouts, using gentoo-dev-sources. it beats the absolute dog squeeze out of 2.4.anything on every box i have (and each box has run them both, so i can see the difference). besides, it's early in 2.6's life, and i believe it'll only get better from here.
i did a search for gentoo, and the first result was store.gentoo.org, followed bya bunch of other subpages at gentoo.org, but never just plain ol' gentoo.org itself! so i thought i'd be smart and redo the search:
"Sorry, no results were found containing "gentoo" "
yeah, this tech preview looks like a real winner to me.
As for security, I do quite well with the combo of common sense, frequennt AV updates, SpyBot, AdAware, WebWasher, and very aggressive/paranoid firewall settings. (I love Agnitum Outpost, which lets me control cookies, ActiveX, JavaScript, etc. -- each *separately* -- on a per-domain basis.)/heresy
you just nailed one of the biggest reasons i switched over to linux and OS X: security. look at all you have to do, all you have to download, install, update, and run just to surf the web! what a complete and total waste! with firefox, i go to Tools | Options | Privacy, and with a few clicks i can make whatever security adjustments i need to and avoid others altogether (for example, i don't get drive-by installs in FF, and im not infected with ActiveX either...just run FF for a week, then run Spybod/AdAware, you'll see what i mean).
when you get tired of all that hassle, heed my sig. COME TO THE LIGHT CAROL ANN!
Unfortunately I don't know what that shift is, otherwise I'd be potentially very rich, but I don't think it's any of the current unix offspring.
my theory is that the nature of the "current unix offspring" is such that it lends itself towards meeting needs and demands placed upon it by users, developers, et al. there is a world of potential in these systems. it doesnt hurt, either, that as of right now they're also more stable and secure, regardless of their market share. the more developers rise to the challenge and demands of (mostly) the business world, the more market share you'll see going to not necessarily superior systems (even tho i think they are), but systems better suited for whatever the company needs.
i remain unconvinced that joe uses a mac, my suspicion, (based on personal observation) is that mac users are neither average nor ordinary.
you're right..."joe" uses windows by and large. i'm not saying joe DOES use mac, i'm saying he'd be BETTER OFF if he used mac (not 'yelling' here, i just like emphasis;). once the basic interface differences are overcome, it's a very easy, very stable system that is MUCH less likely to give him problems.
And what makes you think that joe user will do anything other than login as root.
joe doesn't do that on a Mac, and should be steered away from it on linux (usually is during the install). yes, there will always be stupid people who do stupid things, but that is not the system's fault. plus, i believe that such users will inspire *nix developers to design better systems. the market (think business/corporate ppl) is becoming so frustrated with OS vulnerabilities that it will soon be demanding better systems, and the open, competitive nature of Linux lends itself to such development.
As for User consent, most of the windows viruses out there at the moment require the user to run the.exe... "ooh a new task bar that stores my credit card info for me and its free?"...click click.
that's always an issue, but the biggest problem is that windows user accounts generally allow people to install such crapware. linux and windows make installing programs a more restricted process. in a corporate environment, it can be locked down better as well.
No matter how well you idiot proof something, you can always find a better idiot.
agreed. however, that doesn't mean it's not possible to prevent a lot of problems and avoid others altogether by switching to a better designed system.
I also personally believe that if *nix ever gets onto the desktop the way Windows is now, there will be an awful lot more virus makers targeting it than there are now.
bring. it. on.
there are fundamental differences that make such attacks much harder on *nix boxes, and Macs as well, such as requiring root access to install something, and not being able to install anything without the user's consent. sure, there will always be some sort of vulnerabilities that need to be addressed (ie, the latest kernel vulnerability), but these issues are usually addressed quickly, and differ between distros, making it harder to do a blanket attack.
i just don't accept the "bigger target" theory as a problem. i think it's a welcome challenge, and may serve to make *nix that much better.
You know, if they make a separate callendar, chat client, etc. I'm getting this bad vision of some sort of Voltron episode where Firefox, Thunderbird, Snowcat, and Crazyweasel all merge to become the Ultra-Netasour: Mozilla.
i kinda wish they'd do that, to be honest. the ONLY reason i ever use full Mozilla anymore is because of composer. if composer was a seperate product, i would have had my students using firefox as their main browser instead of mozilla, and i wouldn't have to have 2 browsers on my desktop just to get a comfortable GUI HTML editor.
besides, voltron was cool! i had the metal toy! w00t!
Does that meen that you have the death penalty for shop lifting? or Speeding? or Jay walking (crossing the road not at a designated crossing point)? All are criminal activitys Wow the USA is such a great place!
no no no no no...it's only for self defense.... no...must...not...reply....to...flamebait.... if someone presents a threat to your life, must...STOP! cannot... has the opportunity AND the ability nooooo to end your life, you have the right to defend yourself i...have...succumbed! aaaarrrgh! you don't just go around shooting jaywalkers, shoplifters, etc. it doesn't work that way flamer...has...won....MUARG!
how many people heard about linux that otherwise might have never known about it or given it much thought? even if it wasn't all positive, it was exposure, and that's positive in itself. putting it on the radar screen through SCO-related free press is much cheaper than paying for ad space.
less bloat. with mozilla, you get the browser, mail client, IRC client, composer, and address book. with firefox, you get a browser, period. with thunderbird, you get a mail client, period. clean, simple, light, and fast.
personally, i prefer and reccommend firefox over mozilla primarily because it blocks pop ups by default. the fact that it's low-overhead really helps, but the default pop up blocking is the key selling point, especially for IE users exhausted by whackamole sessions.
Microsoft has extended product support from 7 years to 10. remember when they were going to drop support for 98, then backpedaled somewhat? this is similar to that, except that they're planning ahead this time. instead of saying, "we're going to drop support...oh, wait, no we're not...not yet anyway," they're now saying, "we can't seem to convince people to upgrade to the newest, minty freshiest versions as easily as we used to, since the PC market is now at a saturation point and people aren't as willing as they used to be to buy new PCs just because our newest OS release requires a Cray to power the eye candy and the adware that bog^H^H^H^H^enhance the overall computing ordea^H^H^H^H^H^experience."
yeah, if i ran with 512, i could probably go without swap too. i have about 500 MB of swap, and seldom touch even 20% of it. if i doubled my RAM, i'd be in good shape.
Re:You've some good points...
on
Is Swap Necessary?
·
· Score: 4, Informative
"...the OS should be able to reclaim some RAM from that and manage to carry on, no?"
yeah, pretty much. i may be openly admitting my ignorance here, but i have a gentoo box with 256 MB DDR RAM. i set up a swap partition, and set up the entry in/etc/fstab, but when i ran the box, it never touched the swap. me: "great, this RAM ownz! and the 2.6 kernel ownz at memory management! it never uses swap!"
then, stuff started dying on me during times of heavy system load. like, i'd be in Firefox and running emerge at the same time, and firefox would croak on me. or VMWare wouln't boot Knoppix. or OpenOffice would die. all this time i had something else going on on top of whatever memory-intensive program was dying. me: "wtf, mate?"
it finally occurred to me that the box still wasn't swapping, and that might be a bad thing. so i tried to run "swapon/dev/hdb2" (my swap partition) and got errors. weird. then i realized what happened...
...i had forgotten to officially make the swap partition using mkswap. i'd been running this partition schem for about 2 months, and never realized it until about 2 days ago.
all that to say, yes. the system DOES reclaim memory. by killing other stuff:)
someone please mod parent up...i thought bittorrent sucked it until i opened ports 6881-6889 on my router (didnt mess with the other 2 ports). once i did, i got excellent dl speeds-i think it topped around 150 or 160 (not bad for my cable modem, which tops out around 220)! didnt choke my upload either, since my ISP already throttles it at 15k:(
dang, try to crack a joke, everyone gets all uptight about UID #'s:) even has some 3- and 2-digit users dust off their kb's and jump in the fray!
yes, i am new here too. hence, the silliness in me calling someone new who is LESS new than me. some of you ppl are waaaaay too uptight...is t3h funnay. laugh!
So we should add $79 to the cost of acquiring WindowsXP when people ask how much it costs?
absolutely, yes. plus the cost of a commercial virus scanner, plus the cost of other system maintenance software, plus the cost of applications not bundled in, plus the cost of calling tech support when it STILL gets pwn3d....
windows ain't cheap. sure, there's a lot of free alternatives, but average users dont know what they are, let alone how to use them. so yes, you should definitely factor these things into the total cost of a windows box.
Firstly, if my grandma started to use linux in stead of windows then she would come to me and ask me for help. Right now she sticks to asking windows people for help.
for my mom, *I* am the windows person. if she had a linux install, I would also be the linux guy. personally, i'd rather be the linux support guy.
I think people should use what works for them. If windows works for you then use windows. There is no need to switch to linux merely for the sake of switching to linux.
which is why i said i'm the windows person. mom has dial up, uses aol and a few other windows-only games when my son is over there. as much as i would love to be able to ssh to her pc to fix whatever ails it, it's just not in the cards right now. maybe in the future i'll try to move her to mac. sure would beat repairing a fubar'd 98 install:)
6. "Intercepting or accessing of an electronic communication" and "intentionally intercepted or accessed" mean the intentional acquiring, receiving, collecting, overhearing, or recording of an electronic communication, without the consent of the sender or intended receiver there-of, by means of any instrument, device or equipment, INCLUDING THE USE OF KEYLOGGING COMPUTER PROGRAMS, except when used by a telephone company...in the ordinary course of its business or when necessary to protect the rights or property of such company."
any thoughts on waht implications this might have for progs like ettercap or ethereal?? is it too paranoid to imagine a netadmin being sued by a foremer/disgruntled employee for monitoring network traffic?
Slashdot Mirror
To everyone saying this will kill the independent distro, chill.
amen. i don't think this is as big a deal as all the chicken-little posts i've seen so far seem to believe. many distros already patch the kernel themselves, and Linus & Co. know this, so they're making allowances for it in the early life of 2.6. it may actually result in better development, because the distro kernel hacks may come up with something really groovy that Linus's team didn't see.
i've been using 2.6 since pre-7, or thereabouts, using gentoo-dev-sources. it beats the absolute dog squeeze out of 2.4.anything on every box i have (and each box has run them both, so i can see the difference). besides, it's early in 2.6's life, and i believe it'll only get better from here.
i use mozilla on windows (when i do use windows...blecch) BECAUSE i care about security, you insensitive clod!
i did a search for gentoo, and the first result was store.gentoo.org, followed bya bunch of other subpages at gentoo.org, but never just plain ol' gentoo.org itself! so i thought i'd be smart and redo the search:
"Sorry, no results were found containing "gentoo" "
yeah, this tech preview looks like a real winner to me.
As for security, I do quite well with the combo of common sense, frequennt AV updates, SpyBot, AdAware, WebWasher, and very aggressive/paranoid firewall settings. (I love Agnitum Outpost, which lets me control cookies, ActiveX, JavaScript, etc. -- each *separately* -- on a per-domain basis.) /heresy
you just nailed one of the biggest reasons i switched over to linux and OS X: security. look at all you have to do, all you have to download, install, update, and run just to surf the web! what a complete and total waste! with firefox, i go to Tools | Options | Privacy, and with a few clicks i can make whatever security adjustments i need to and avoid others altogether (for example, i don't get drive-by installs in FF, and im not infected with ActiveX either...just run FF for a week, then run Spybod/AdAware, you'll see what i mean).
when you get tired of all that hassle, heed my sig. COME TO THE LIGHT CAROL ANN!
*Sigh*, this happens everytime Real is mentioned in an article. It's not really that hilarious when you've seen it 10 times already.
translation: crap! i never get to it first!
it's t3h funnay...laugh! ;)
lighten.
up.
:-D
you're right, securing windows isn't hard at all! you only have to:
Unfortunately I don't know what that shift is, otherwise I'd be potentially very rich, but I don't think it's any of the current unix offspring.
my theory is that the nature of the "current unix offspring" is such that it lends itself towards meeting needs and demands placed upon it by users, developers, et al. there is a world of potential in these systems. it doesnt hurt, either, that as of right now they're also more stable and secure, regardless of their market share. the more developers rise to the challenge and demands of (mostly) the business world, the more market share you'll see going to not necessarily superior systems (even tho i think they are), but systems better suited for whatever the company needs.
i remain unconvinced that joe uses a mac, my suspicion, (based on personal observation) is that mac users are neither average nor ordinary.
you're right..."joe" uses windows by and large. i'm not saying joe DOES use mac, i'm saying he'd be BETTER OFF if he used mac (not 'yelling' here, i just like emphasis ;). once the basic interface differences are overcome, it's a very easy, very stable system that is MUCH less likely to give him problems.
my $0.02 ;)
And what makes you think that joe user will do anything other than login as root.
joe doesn't do that on a Mac, and should be steered away from it on linux (usually is during the install). yes, there will always be stupid people who do stupid things, but that is not the system's fault. plus, i believe that such users will inspire *nix developers to design better systems. the market (think business/corporate ppl) is becoming so frustrated with OS vulnerabilities that it will soon be demanding better systems, and the open, competitive nature of Linux lends itself to such development.
As for User consent, most of the windows viruses out there at the moment require the user to run the .exe ... "ooh a new task bar that stores my credit card info for me and its free?" ...click click.
that's always an issue, but the biggest problem is that windows user accounts generally allow people to install such crapware. linux and windows make installing programs a more restricted process. in a corporate environment, it can be locked down better as well.
No matter how well you idiot proof something, you can always find a better idiot.
agreed. however, that doesn't mean it's not possible to prevent a lot of problems and avoid others altogether by switching to a better designed system.
I also personally believe that if *nix ever gets onto the desktop the way Windows is now, there will be an awful lot more virus makers targeting it than there are now.
bring. it. on.
there are fundamental differences that make such attacks much harder on *nix boxes, and Macs as well, such as requiring root access to install something, and not being able to install anything without the user's consent. sure, there will always be some sort of vulnerabilities that need to be addressed (ie, the latest kernel vulnerability), but these issues are usually addressed quickly, and differ between distros, making it harder to do a blanket attack.
i just don't accept the "bigger target" theory as a problem. i think it's a welcome challenge, and may serve to make *nix that much better.
i'm glad to know that...may try it out. fortunately, im not teaching anymore (w00t!), but i still reccommend progs to freinds/family/former students
You know, if they make a separate callendar, chat client, etc. I'm getting this bad vision of some sort of Voltron episode where Firefox, Thunderbird, Snowcat, and Crazyweasel all merge to become the Ultra-Netasour: Mozilla.
i kinda wish they'd do that, to be honest. the ONLY reason i ever use full Mozilla anymore is because of composer. if composer was a seperate product, i would have had my students using firefox as their main browser instead of mozilla, and i wouldn't have to have 2 browsers on my desktop just to get a comfortable GUI HTML editor.
besides, voltron was cool! i had the metal toy! w00t!
What sound does a firewall make when someone clicks on a goatse link?
"mep"
Does that meen that you have the death penalty for shop lifting? or Speeding? or Jay walking (crossing the road not at a designated crossing point)? All are criminal activitys Wow the USA is such a great place!
no no no no no...it's only for self defense.... no...must...not...reply....to...flamebait.... if someone presents a threat to your life, must...STOP! cannot... has the opportunity AND the ability nooooo to end your life, you have the right to defend yourself i...have...succumbed! aaaarrrgh! you don't just go around shooting jaywalkers, shoplifters, etc. it doesn't work that way flamer...has...won....MUARG!
how many people heard about linux that otherwise might have never known about it or given it much thought? even if it wasn't all positive, it was exposure, and that's positive in itself. putting it on the radar screen through SCO-related free press is much cheaper than paying for ad space.
less bloat. with mozilla, you get the browser, mail client, IRC client, composer, and address book. with firefox, you get a browser, period. with thunderbird, you get a mail client, period. clean, simple, light, and fast.
personally, i prefer and reccommend firefox over mozilla primarily because it blocks pop ups by default. the fact that it's low-overhead really helps, but the default pop up blocking is the key selling point, especially for IE users exhausted by whackamole sessions.
that's kinda the way i look at it... from my home page (title: Microsoft can't keep up):
Microsoft has extended product support from 7 years to 10. remember when they were going to drop support for 98, then backpedaled somewhat? this is similar to that, except that they're planning ahead this time. instead of saying, "we're going to drop support...oh, wait, no we're not...not yet anyway," they're now saying, "we can't seem to convince people to upgrade to the newest, minty freshiest versions as easily as we used to, since the PC market is now at a saturation point and people aren't as willing as they used to be to buy new PCs just because our newest OS release requires a Cray to power the eye candy and the adware that bog^H^H^H^H^enhance the overall computing ordea^H^H^H^H^H^experience."
yeah, if i ran with 512, i could probably go without swap too. i have about 500 MB of swap, and seldom touch even 20% of it. if i doubled my RAM, i'd be in good shape.
"...the OS should be able to reclaim some RAM from that and manage to carry on, no?"
yeah, pretty much. i may be openly admitting my ignorance here, but i have a gentoo box with 256 MB DDR RAM. i set up a swap partition, and set up the entry in /etc/fstab, but when i ran the box, it never touched the swap. me: "great, this RAM ownz! and the 2.6 kernel ownz at memory management! it never uses swap!"
then, stuff started dying on me during times of heavy system load. like, i'd be in Firefox and running emerge at the same time, and firefox would croak on me. or VMWare wouln't boot Knoppix. or OpenOffice would die. all this time i had something else going on on top of whatever memory-intensive program was dying. me: "wtf, mate?"
it finally occurred to me that the box still wasn't swapping, and that might be a bad thing. so i tried to run "swapon /dev/hdb2" (my swap partition) and got errors. weird. then i realized what happened...
...i had forgotten to officially make the swap partition using mkswap. i'd been running this partition schem for about 2 months, and never realized it until about 2 days ago.
all that to say, yes. the system DOES reclaim memory. by killing other stuff :)
i'm a stoopid monkey sometimes :-D
someone please mod parent up...i thought bittorrent sucked it until i opened ports 6881-6889 on my router (didnt mess with the other 2 ports). once i did, i got excellent dl speeds-i think it topped around 150 or 160 (not bad for my cable modem, which tops out around 220)! didnt choke my upload either, since my ISP already throttles it at 15k :(
dang, try to crack a joke, everyone gets all uptight about UID #'s :) even has some 3- and 2-digit users dust off their kb's and jump in the fray!
yes, i am new here too. hence, the silliness in me calling someone new who is LESS new than me. some of you ppl are waaaaay too uptight...is t3h funnay. laugh!
It never hurts to read the actual article.
you must be new here...
So we should add $79 to the cost of acquiring WindowsXP when people ask how much it costs?
absolutely, yes. plus the cost of a commercial virus scanner, plus the cost of other system maintenance software, plus the cost of applications not bundled in, plus the cost of calling tech support when it STILL gets pwn3d....
windows ain't cheap. sure, there's a lot of free alternatives, but average users dont know what they are, let alone how to use them. so yes, you should definitely factor these things into the total cost of a windows box.
or get a mac and breathe a little easier
Firstly, if my grandma started to use linux in stead of windows then she would come to me and ask me for help. Right now she sticks to asking windows people for help.
for my mom, *I* am the windows person. if she had a linux install, I would also be the linux guy. personally, i'd rather be the linux support guy.I think people should use what works for them. If windows works for you then use windows. There is no need to switch to linux merely for the sake of switching to linux.
which is why i said i'm the windows person. mom has dial up, uses aol and a few other windows-only games when my son is over there. as much as i would love to be able to ssh to her pc to fix whatever ails it, it's just not in the cards right now. maybe in the future i'll try to move her to mac. sure would beat repairing a fubar'd 98 install6. "Intercepting or accessing of an electronic communication" and "intentionally intercepted or accessed" mean the intentional acquiring, receiving, collecting, overhearing, or recording of an electronic communication, without the consent of the sender or intended receiver there-of, by means of any instrument, device or equipment, INCLUDING THE USE OF KEYLOGGING COMPUTER PROGRAMS, except when used by a telephone company...in the ordinary course of its business or when necessary to protect the rights or property of such company."
any thoughts on waht implications this might have for progs like ettercap or ethereal?? is it too paranoid to imagine a netadmin being sued by a foremer/disgruntled employee for monitoring network traffic?
--krewe