Slashdot Mirror
Windows Vista & IE7 Beta 1 Released
gdsotirov writes "Today on the IE blog the availability of two new beta tests - Windows Vista Beta 1 and Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 - was announced. These tests are mainly targeted to developers and IT professionals. Thus the betas are only available to MSDN subscribers. Tom's Hardware has details as well." From the article: "While the code also includes an early look at the new user-interface design, the majority of end-user features in Windows Vista will not be included until Beta 2. In addition to these fundamentals, Windows Vista Beta 1 also includes the Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 built into the platform. The technical Beta of Internet Explorer 7 for Windows XP SP2 also is available today." Any early thoughts, MSDN subscribers?
Nothing to see here, please move along.
So they're trying this again are they?
HELO
MAIL FROM: aspammer@zombiesareus.biz
RCPT TO: billg@microsoft.com
DATA
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
I'm sure not..
Anyways, both these betas are already available everywhere.
The Vista Beta comes with a WPA bypasser.
IE7 beta requires online activation.
Just curious. I would not do anything illegal like making use of one.
lemme guess... tabbed browsing not available.
"Any early thoughts, MSDN subscribers?"
Do those actually read Slashdot?
For the first time I agree with John C Dvorak.
pcmag
"Vista? As in "Hasta la Vista, baby?" That name might be appropriate as a symbolic goodbye since it might be the end of the line for Microsoft's dominance in the OS business."
"The new OS is getting zero buzz. Zero. now the name Vista, along with the new Microsoft Vista logo, has made it worse. Could anything be less exciting?"
"THE FUTURE OF DESKTOP COMPUTING: Apple. Vista will open the door to what I believe will be a radical change in the computing landscape. The trends are clear. Once the new Mac OS appears next year it will gravitate toward the existing x86 community much more rapidly than anticipated..."
"Right now, and as much as x86 users do not want to admit it, the Mac OS is already better than Windows in its modern look and feel as well as its functionality. I see too many smart people with Mac laptops nowadays."
"...it is always possible that Apple doesn't understand the power play position it's in and might actually believe that it's better off somehow keeping its OS in a small niche rather than the big market. If the world changed tomorrow to 85 percent Mac "OS x86" its laptop sales alone would triple overnight. Apple didn't put together what many consider the finest in-house industrial design teams in the world to fool around with piddly sales and more redesigns of the iPod."
"That said, how much more of Steve Jobs can we handle? Do we really want to hear him say "I told you so?" If it gets some excitement back into desktop computing, yes, we do. I think we can take it."
The privacy statement for Internet Explorer 7.0 beta lists a "phishing filter," which is said to be capable of warning users about the possibility that the Web site currently being visited is impersonating a trusted Web site. This feature is turned off by default
Why bother creating a feature like this and having it turned off by default. The people most likely to be taken in by a phishing scam seem to me to be the same people who won't know enough about a computer to turn this feature on to protect themselves. The more tech and internet savvy people could turn this off if it annoys them.
but in order for it to be used properly, the Web site's address and other information about the user's computer, are sent to Microsoft for automatic evaluation.
Then again it does scare me a little that MS would be taking a peek at my browsing habits. Hopefully it just asks a big database full of bad websites whether or not this one is good. I'd like to think that MS wouldn't be keeping tabs on my online activity. Makes me wonder if this is why that bought Gator... I mean Claria.
Finally I will be able to shut the mouth of my Mac OS 9.1 using neighbour !
There is so much missing from this beta it seems pointless, to an extent. There is certainly much that's missing or isn't finalised which makes it next to useless for interested application developers, I would think.
I guess it's more a case of MS letting the code into the wild to see if it's as robust as they hope.
Call it a Aleta. Or maybe Belpha sounds better...
A Slashdotter agreeing with John C. Dvorak, who is saying nice things about Apple?
Quick, can someone post a current weather report for Hell, please?
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
First of all, I'm not an MSDN subscriber, but I have done several betas.
The iso for workstation is about 2.5 GB. I had a couple of failed installs due to a faulty dvd-rom drive and am now almost finished installing it. It looks pretty good so far, from the installer anyways.
There's a torrent here: http://www.mininova.org/tor/80599
Use the magnet links in Azureus (Ctrl+L) to save mininova bandwidth.
It's also available seperately (IE7) so I'd imagine it's just included but not integral so neatly avoiding any new anti-trust issues...
In other news Secunia has announced details of two new secuirty exploits going by the names "Vista" and "IE7".
Interesting. As far as I know, MSDN subscribers are not included in the Beta. It's invitation only...
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Has anyone tried to run IE 7 with WINE on Linux?
Protected Mode. Available in the Windows Vista beta 2 release and beyond, Internet Explorer Protected Mode will provide new levels of security and data protection for Windows users. Designed to defend against "elevation of privilege" attacks, Internet Explorer Protected Mode provides the safety of a robust Internet browsing experience while helping prevent hackers from taking over the browser and executing code through the use of administrator rights. In this mode, Internet Explorer 7 is completely unable modify user or system files and settings. All communications occur via a broker process that mediates between the Internet Explorer browser and the operating system. The broker process is only initiated when the user clicks on the Internet Explorer menus and screens. The highly restrictive broker process prohibits workarounds from bypassing the Protected Mode. Any scripted actions or automatic processes will be prevented from downloading data or affecting the system. Specifically, Component Object Model objects will only be self-aware and have no reference information by which to identify and attack other applications or the operating system. Internet Explorer Protected Mode helps protect users from malicious downloads by restricting the ability to write to any local machine zone resources other than temporary Internet files. Attempting to write to the Windows Registry or other locations will require the broker process to provide the necessary elevated permissions.
why do you obsess over your enemy?
Because I love Ayanami Rei.
http://static.thepiratebay.org/downloadtorrent/336 2112.torrent/Microsoft.Windows.Vista.Codename.Long horn.Beta.1.32Bit.DVD.READ..3362112.TPB.torrent
Here.
"...the majority of end-user features in Windows Vista will not be included until Beta 2"
So in other words, beta 1 is just XP with RSS? They already yanked everything else out of the system as is. The reason they call it Vista is because that's all that's left of the OS; a view.
Perfecting Discordia
www.stevenvansickle.com
"Closest idea to a perfect O/S yet!!" I want what he's smoking...
Do you mind being just a bit more descriptive?
If you're not being sarcastic that is. It's hard to tell.
Not true it's in the subscriber downloads section.
Err, why saying mostly the same thing twice (#13184583, #13184649) ?
- Glass and new Window animation. The Windows Vista desktop experience will deliver a new visual identity -- translucent glass with more animation. Because it is visually intuitive, the glass helps users focus on the task at hand, whether reading a document, viewing a Web page or editing a photo.
Apparently the best way to develop a "visually intuitive" user interface is glass and more animation!
MSDN subscription starts at $99 a year... I didn't realize $99 was lots of money, but you know, whatever man.
evil adrian
Thanks, I was just about to post that myself! mod that idiot questioning me down, FELLAS!
One very simple question. Why? Why is it so much better? Why should I pay X amount of hard earned money to get this upgrade?
I assume there is an NDA but you can tell us something....
M$ it's whats for diner!!!!!
"...the beta is available to MSDN subscribers and a pretty small set of pre-enrolled beta test participants."
4 .aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/27/44400
WeRelate.org - wiki-based genealogy
>>Windows Vista Beta 1 also includes the Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 built into the platform
Wouldn't this fly in the face of the US DOJ ruling that they had to separate it from the OS?
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
If you don't want to waste your money on a M$DN subscription, you can grap a copy from thepiratebay.org, it is on the top 100 list, currently number 8.
It is ideal for people like me that don't have the money to afford thousands of dollars on software from price gouging companys, but want to stay up-to-date on the latest software and know whats out there, so I can deal with it in the future if I have to.
Yes I'm an MSDN subscriber through work. No, I won't be downloading the betas. I personally don't have the time to fiddle around with such things any more. It's far easier to wait for others to find the gotchas. When the final version is released, it'll still be months until we deploy it at work.
Feel free to call me lazy. I just know I have interfaces to write and queries to improve. Those things can't wait.
http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3362236
Very simple. You will eventually have to upgrade if you want to keep using new software and services to their full extent.
As new versions of Windows are released, rarely will a software company go out of their way to fully support older versions, especially new startups. If I were still running Windows 98 I'd be cut off from quite a few of my favorite programs.
This is not to say you can't keep using Windows XP - but there was a reason I eventually had to upgrade. It just gets to be too much of a hassle to deal with gradually diminishing support and software.
for me to pay for MSDN it is a huge amount of money.
Paul Thurrott has a fairly comprehensive (and probably quite rose-tinted) review of the Vista beta over at his SuperSite for Windows.
It goes through the vast majority of new features, although doesn't go into a great deal of depth at this early stage. Seems there are no great surprises here - Vista is still very much watered down from initial promises - but apparently things are at least moving along noticably now.
-----------
www.markwheeler.net
www.markwheeler.net
the majority of end-user features in Windows Vista will not be included until Beta 2
... But this one can flutter its eyelids, and its hands move a bit.
Hal Spacejock: Science Fiction with Nuts
For a website that has bill dressed in a Borg outfit there are sure a lot of press releases^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H articles about Microsoft products...
.net, VB, ...]
As my boss often says "it is what it is". Let's just wait for the actual RELEASE of the product instead of talking about it with devote admiration and desire.
Personally I don't see any changes that would make me switch from Gentoo Linux on my AMDX2 to it... let's see
1. Incompetent shell. check.
2. Single desktop desktop. check.
3. High price for "complete" copy. check.
4. Activation. check.
5. Poorly documented closed source kernel. check.
6. Feeding generations of inept developers. check. [re: C#, anything
7. Resource intense OS. check.
I mean I do a lot of development and even I could get by with 256MB of ram [albeit with swapping to disk here and there]. If I didn't compile things of substantial size I could easily run the rest of my desktop applications within 128M, heck even 64M.
The fact that the "newest windows" requires 512M of ram and a gigamahurts processor is a sign things aren't actually improving they're just getting more wasteful.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Heh, with the exception of "Dynamic security protection", that just reads like Firefox's feature list. Tabbed browsing, 'inline' search from address bar, support for RSS feeds, transparent PNG support... revolutionary!
Validation Warning I've also heard of people having problems when uninstalling.
If I feel brave enough (and our webmasters think they can survive a potential Slashdotting ;-) ) I'll put up some blog entries about my experiences over the next few days.
Thus the betas are only available to MSDN subscribers.
And to anyone with a P2P client, probably...
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
Don't bother downloading & installing IE if your windows version isn't english, won't work..
For those, who don't know Hölle is German for Hell.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Brief overview and comments here.
When will it be available on Freshmeat.net?
I am NOT putting my signature in this stupid little box! How do I know you won't steal my identity???
Micro$oft's starting to flood the world with more poorly-written but still ridiculously expensive software. So obviously this can only mean one thing. Time to switch to Linux! And if Linux doesn't work, help the ReactOS [site currently down, not my fault] people finish their system so they can free the world from Gates' tyranny!
Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
Why is parent modded troll. The comment seems to imply that the browser crashes when viewing /. ?
Or am I just used to IE crashing and infering too much?
"If it is just us, seems like an awful waste of space." -- movie: Contact
Here's the current weather in Hell.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
okay, not often can you actually use that abbreviation, but this time it's okay
"Aero, Windows Vistas new design approach, includes a set of APIs that help developers create highly usable applications that generate a positive and lasting emotional connection with users."
EMOTIONAL CONNECTION?!
god bless this new operating system!
Thank you Windows Vista!
Content Management System: A pretentious way of saying "text editor."
http://mywallop.com/wc2%5C878649_per%5Cpic%5C13211 356.jpg
Explorer 7 is broken
"Beautiful Bloatness" were first two words to come out of my mouth when I loaded up Vista last night. Also, the elusive "Blue Screen of Death" still exists. I found it already a couple of times.
I definitely recommend reading through ALL of this: Review
It clarified a lot I didn't know about Vista, and it's *gasp* even a critical review, but still not one written by an anti-Microsoft zealot, but trying to keep a pretty open mind about it.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
If you can't afford a $99 MSDN subscription then you either aren't a programmer by trade, or you have no idea how to properly manage your income.
evil adrian
safe mode in IE, tabbed browsing, RSS feeds.. ok that covers what got stolen from firefox. translucent windows - thats OSX from what i have been led to understand (i haven't seen it apart from on KDE, i don't own a mac). So basically vista has viewed (how apt) what the public loves elsewhere and nicked it. other than these couple of new featuers it's a slow version of XP, yawn. oh and whoever said about ie that one of it's features was :)
"easy history deletion."
excuse me while i laugh my lungs up. anyone remember this debacle (fuckmicrosoft.com, but is SFW as redirects to microsuck....just typed the old URL in out of habit
"... features which may or may not collect personal information from users."
.NET aware.
Maybe it's a browser that may or may not be completely useless, like I really need a browser that lists the games on my computer.
Can anyone think why we needed IE6? Oh yes, it supported printer stylesheets.
Can anyone think why we need IE7? Let me guess, it's
It would be better if the browser engine was cleaned up and leave the actual browser GUI to a team who remembers how to write small fast code.
For example, the pluggable protocol interface could use a lot of work (and documenation).
Increased DRM. check
I find this sort of thing endlessly amusing. Everybody complains about Microsoft being a monopoly, although it's ostensibly because Microsoft handles security poorly (insert security-through-obscurity argument here). Regardless though, if people switch to Mac, you now have a monopoly on not only the OS, but the hardware too! How is it that your average slashdotter is so shortsighted that they can't see that Apple crushing Microsoft would result in the worst vendor lock-in the computer industry has ever seen?
I've Found a heap of great screenshots over at news!
==
+5 predictable.
Does anyone have screenshots of this? /. before
Or is it the same as we've seen on
Here :
;-)
http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/
Contains numerous CSS & DOM bugfixes. This bunch of scripts transfor a bloatish uncomplient IE in a "normal" browser
How much people is there at MS coding the bug fixes on IE ? Coz, Dean has made this on his own as a hobby guys !!!!
They never learn, do they? When will they realize that many security weakness's in Windows is due to the integrated nature of IE. Seperating the browser from the OS is an integral part in securing Windows. But MS once again choose not to. Is it the new RSS features that deny this needed change?
Oh well, innovation at it's greatest. Evolution and all that jazz at work. Oh wait...Scratch that.
"Sure there's porn and piracy on the Web but there's probably a downside too."
So rather than implement a sandbox in the browser, they run the whole browser in a sandbox. This means that hostile scripts and ActiveX components can still be used to attack other systems, compromise the user's personal information on other web sites, steal passwords and credit card numbers, and take part in zombie networks.
On a lighter note, I'm not sure that having self-aware COM objects is a good idea. Apart from this being a dubious application of strong AI technology, won't this make shutting down your computer equivalent to murder?
MS Windows 98SE - If you don't use IE/OE or any MS applications, it is hard to exploit. Still works fine for most people. Why upgrade?
MS Windows 2000 - Now we have remotely exploitable services . . . Patch them and you are pretty safe. If you don't use IE/OE or any MS applications, it is hard to exploit. Still works fine for most people. Why upgrade?
MS Windows XP - Remotely exploitable . . . needs to be patched all the time because of new exploits. Can't get away from IE because it is built in. But, it still works fine for most people.
DO YOU SEE A TREND?
MS Windows Vista - How much worse can it get?
I just tried it out.
The interface is a direct copy of Firefox/Safari. Except the file edit etc menu is under the tabs... in WinXP. Which is really bad for usability.
PNG alpha transparencies WORK!
Acid2 test FAILS. And miserably at that.
It doesn't look like they fixed any CSS tests although we didn't look into it too much.
In short, it's a face lift for 90's technology.
Does it fix the xhtml served properly (as xhtml+xml) problem?
Demo/test page: http://www.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie/demo.xhtml
On IE6, that pops up a prompt asking if you'd like to save it. The proper behavior is to parse it.
I'd love to know if that was fixed.
Can anyone provide a SS of IE7 viewing the acid2 test?
I'd love to give my thoughts, but MSDN download doesn't seem to work from XP SP2. Nice one microsoft - I have to upgrade to Vista to download Vista.
It's just the _end-user_ features that are out. There's still plenty of changes under the skin that need to be tested to see if the break anything.
If you're an application developer and want to make sure your code will still work on the next version of Windows then you'll be grabbing this and using it as a test-bed.
If you're just wanting to see the next version of Windows so you can gaze at the prettiness then it's not aimed at you...
My Journal
I'm writing this post in IE7.
To tell the truth, the only "improvement" I've noticed is the tabs, but tabs have been available as extensions for quite some time.
I was hoping for some CSS improvements. When I first installed it, I immediately went to a few of the more difficult CSS sites, to see if they'd render correctly. Nope - no such luck. See http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/ for example.
The toolbar has been moved around. In my copy of it, at least, the URL bar is just below the titlebar, then there are the tabs, then another bar with text buttons on the left, and some icons on the right for home, favourites, history, rss, and print.
A search bar has been integrated into the same bar as the URL entry box. I expected it to use MSN by default, but it's set to Google. Or maybe that's just on mine?
As a web developer, I was hoping for better CSS support and better debugging tools.
According to their documentation, they've addressed at least two CSS bugs. I haven't seen any improvements at all yet. I will be using Dean Edwards' script for some time yet, it seems...
On the JavaScript end, there does not seem to have been any work done on the debug tools there at all - still the old crappy "error on line X" (of what file? a bit more detail please?).
The RSS doesn't seem as good as Firefox's.
In Firefox, an icon appears on the bottom of the page you're on. You click the icon, then add the feed with another click. Immediately, you have Live Feeds, where you can open your bookmarks, scroll to the feed you want, and a list of the article headlines is immediately available.
In IE7, however, an icon highlights on the top of the page. You click the icon, which opens up the RSS and renders it (nyeh - whatever). Then you click add to favourites. Then you click to confirm that. Now, when you want to view the feeds, you open your favourites from the text toolbar, scroll down and click on the feed.
The main difference is that in IE7, you must click each feed that you want to view, whereas in Firefox, you get a preview of the new items.
Overall, I am not impressed in the slightest. Nothing innovative at all, and their CSS is still nowhere near as good as Firefox, Opera, KDE or Safari's (I know the latter two are basically the same engine...).
It's not $99 for the subscription level you're talking about but $199. $99 is just the UPGRADE price. Also, that level of subscription doesn't get you access to any OS products.
The cheapest version that does that is $700.
$700 per year is nothing to sneeze at. Even a corporation would not take such a subscription lightly.
Has anyone tried to run IE 7 with WINE on Linux?
No, but I am trying to get WINE running on Windows. No joy so far..
Um, no. Gamers already have a vested interest in maintaining high levels of hardware, and by 2k7, 2GB of RAM will be ordinary. If Windows Vista requires 512MB RAM, the minimum desirable level will be around 1GB (compare XP's minimum 256MB and effective 512MB requirements). And Half-Life 2 plays decently under Windows with 512MB RAM.
I believe that GDI goes into a low-memory, null-CPU usage state when games are being played full-screen. Or at least, that would be a damn good idea. But I wonder if X can have a dual-layer mode with one hibernating layer.
On Vista being slow--first MS wants something that does what it's supposed to; then they optimize. That way they can use regression testing to determine what levels of optimization are unstable.
This is even without considering the R.E.V.O.L.U.R.I.O.N.A.R.Y theme for the buttons ripped^H^H^H^H^H^H inspired on KDE Crystal theme...
e w=2&id=8341&file1=8341-1.jpg&file2=8341-2.jpg&file 3=8341-3.jpg&name=Crystal+SVG&PHPSESSID=b09161c27e 4dc69f957fca2b9ef44a81
= 213
Take a close look to the back and forward arrows in Longhorn, that are EXACTLY the same as the KDE Crystal (take a look on the comparison)
KDE Crystal SVG look :
http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?previ
Also the replicant Plastikfox for firefox
https://addons.mozilla.org/themes/moreinfo.php?id
and finally, the Longhorn long awaited innovative arrows:
http://www.jcxp.net/lh_5203_shots/shots/lh11.jpg
Will MS release their skin under some OS license???
From Paul's article: Because Microsoft built a search box into the Start menu, you can no longer use keyboard shortcuts to navigate around. To launch the Control Panel in XP, for example, you simply hit the Windows key and then the "C" key and, voila, the Control Panel opens. In Windows Vista, however, when you hit the "C" key, the system assumes you're searching for an application (Figure). Sigh.
For me, the user interface of Windows peaked with Windows 3.11 and NT 3.51. In these systems, virtually every control in every program could be easily navigated to using only the keyboard, with consistent shortcuts everywhere. This was a significantly better environment than Apple has managed to provide even now, and probably the best feature of the Windows UI. In 95/NT4 the Start Menu and Task Bar required new shortcuts. Then companies started shipping keyboards with extra keys (making the spacebar shorter and a harder target to hit, and not really solving the problem for people who have to work on multiple computers with a variety of keyboards). Newer versions of Office applications removed the ability to keyboard-navigate through toolbars (with or without he new keyboards). What's next?
I wouldn't even call this a beta version. If you value your time and don't want to screw up your system don't touch this. This is clearly just a recycled version of XP but thousand times less stable, without many of the promised features, and runs slower than Ubuntu on my old 486. Is it only me who thinks that Vista is just all hype? As as developer I bet anything that Vista or however they want to call it will not make it onto the desktop within the next five years. By then everyone will have jumped on the Linux bandwagon. And for good reason.
In order to get things rolling I propose the following meaning for the VISTA acronym:
Virus
Infested
Slow
Trash
Application
Or, considering the number of features that were cut, it could just be referred to as 'shorthorn'.
HAND
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
... this feature is turned OFF by default.
Is it just me, or does this idea of Virtual Folders sound awfully familiar? Anyone know how this compares in functionality and purpose to Apple's Smart Folders?
To quote Tom's Hardware Guide: "While the code also includes an early look at the new user-interface design, the majority of end-user features in Windows Vista will not be included until Beta 2."
So it's not even feature-complete, and this is a wide beta? Beta's are supposed to be feature and code complete and frozen; the purpose of beta being to find last minute interaction with customer setups.
It would be more honest to call it "preview" or something.
The Micro$oft pages have a "Was this information useful?" button at the bottom of the page. :D
I voted no. Then it asked me WHY the information wasn't useful, and I voted "Not what I am looking for" That sums up IE pretty nicely, no?
What I really am interested in knowing is how much DRM "technology" is active, and why beta-testers would inflict that on themselves.
This is all a good thing.
Why?
We now have four flavors of MS OS (not including sub-flavors) . . . MacOSX . . . and a dozen or so truly useful Linux distros . . . not to mention the Sun offerings.
Just consider this. You don't have to use MS to run a business. You don't even have to run MacOSX. You have many choices. And, thanks to folks like OpenOffice.org and Mozilla.org folks, we are able to move from platform to platform without too much effort.
MS is just trying to appeal to the edge of the envelope crowd. Most of us don't need much more than 98SE with OO.org, T-Bird, and Firefox.
Competition is GOOD!!!!
Right about the time I'm willing to shell out 200$ everytime I want a service pack, apple will be the "reigning champ". For all the trash people here talk on microsoft I can't believe any of you. Apple charges you for SERVICE PACKS@!!!!! And people try to claim that's better than M$ who gives you as much free software as you could ever need (not that people don't choose alternatives anyways). All I can do is shake my head.
... I'm glad I moved to mac. I liked Windows 2000, liked XP for a bit, and went back to 2k. I started looking at the mac platform when Mac OS X first came out, and switched when I bought my Mac Mini. I'm never going back, I see the future of both platforms, and I can't say I see much that I like in the Windows world. Everything looks cubersome, bloated, and ugly. Everyone I know that runs windows is always complaining about slowness, etc, and it's all from viruses/malware. I'm excited to see what this does to the Windows world, if anything. Everyone in the PC market is looking for a good deal at Walmart. I'd like to see Microsoft taken off the throne, and replaced with apple.
Sig: I stole this sig.
I've often noticed on my laptop (which only has 512 MB RAM) that when I exit a full screen game I've been playing for a bit, XP practically has to start up again, and it takes a bit for everything to come back on-line. My desktop (1.5 GB RAM, but slower processor) doesn't do this. So I think perhaps you're right about the null-CPU state.
How can a milionaire enterprise as MS, can't change desktop icons and start menu ...
I don't know why but, many of things that i have seen in screenshot i saw long time in Linux and in Mac ...
There are one problem, the 90% of joe user don't know that. And they will absorve all MS marketing. For me longhorn it's a crap, maybe a windows 2003 for joe user, but horrible in design.
Linux dune 2.6.9-gentoo-r3 #4 SMP Thu Nov 11 15:52:41 UTC 2004 x86_64 4 GNU/Linux
More Info
4 .aspxa milyId=718E9B3A-64FE-4A4C-9DDF-57AF0472EAD2&displa ylang=en
a boo.html and http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/guill otine.html. The final release of Internet Explorer 7 will focus on improving the developer experience by reducing the time needed for developing and testing on different browsers."
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/27/44400
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?F
"CSS improvements. CSS is a widely used standard for creating Web pages. Internet Explorer 7 is prioritizing compliance to CSS standards by first implementing the features that developers have said are most important to them. As a result, in Internet Explorer 7 beta 1 Microsoft has addressed some of the major inconsistencies that can cause Web developers problems producing rich, interactive Web pages. The work Microsoft has done includes fixing some positioning and layout issues related to the way Internet Explorer 6 handles tags. (More information about these bugs can be found online at http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peek
What a Mac OS rip off!! not to mention tabbed browsing which has been part of Mozilla for years. What sucks is that Microsoft now gets credit for creating tabbed browsing (by the less technical).
OK, I was lazy and didn't start downloading from MSDN until this morning. Right now MSDN downloads are running slower than I've seen in several years.
Mac OS X!
Seriously, I read Paul Thurott's review (linked in other comments, so I'm not bothering) and looked at the screenshots and images showing certain features-- it's frankly ridiculous exactly how much of Vista has been lifted directly from Mac OS X.
Hey, Microsoft: Back when Tiger was demoed and Apple had banners in the exhibit hall that said, "Redmond, start your photocopiers," that was NOT an invitation, it was really more a wry commentary on your "innovation"-- I think you may have missed that.
"along with the new Microsoft Vista logo, has made it worse." I spent all night in mspaint designing that logo!! graaargh!!!
"hey, could you pass me a paper towel? er.. I mean... DEPLOY ABSORBTION PANEL!"
For the future of the human race, I'm hoping this post was a joke...
80% of the posts here either make you laugh or cry, and with most of those posts you're not sure which to do...
Hail to the brand new slashdot meme/troll/in soviet russia... !
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
One very simple question. Why?
He's just a troll. Longhorn cum Vista was just plopped on MSDN last night, so there is little of value that our friendly troll could have derived from it in that short of a period of time.
I assume there is an NDA but you can tell us something....
There is no NDA, and it's hardly a secret beta - there are some 500,000 MSDN subscribers. I'm one and am installing it in a VirtualPC session right now. I doubt I'm going to be back in 20 minutes calling it the greatest thing I've ever seen.
Oooo, I'm so excited.. about IE7 that is. It basically decides a large part of the future of my web development career and how much cutting edge trickery I get to play with. Windows Vista is a joke though, it will take more than that to pull me back away from OSX Tiger.
Gadgetoid.com - Gadgets & Games Journalism
I click on the Slashdot homepage link (the Slashdot logo), and it won't even navigtate there... wtf? I have to hit my home button to get back! Nice freaking beta!
I am not impressed with this at all. The toolbards will reset themselves unless you drag them by resizing them first and then moving them to the correct location. Otherwise, they forget where they are supposed to be.
Also, the Links bar is kinda screwed up. Every folder and link has a set width, and there are now links that used to be there that aren't now.
Actually phishing databases aren't new. The browser Deepnet Explorer http://www.deepnetexplorer.com/ [www.deepnetexplorer.com] already has a phishing database, which is quite effective.
Isn't this just a fancy way to say playlist? I fail to see the usefullness of adding yet another layer of confusion to getting to a users files. Not to mention, this ought to make user migration a joy for enterprise users.
--WooooHoooo--
... this just seems like common microsoft sludge hammer ware. They take some ideas from a few places, package all the new software together, and take some ideas from third party applications, and you smash it together with a sludehammer. Nothing looks new, exciting, or even the least bit cool. It looks like Microsoft trying to play catchup (just now getting RSS and tabbed browsing), and in the process moving some things around. In most of the reviews, all I hear is speak about menus and stuff being moved around, and dialogs being layed out differntly. Why do people envy this crap?
Sig: I stole this sig.
Just to show how it is all the same stuff with a sticker placed over it, check this out:
I mean look at this
Been the same since '95
Sig: I stole this sig.
Perhaps I should have rephrased my question better, i.e. why should I upgrade in the near future?
I know eventually I'll have to upgrade, I'm just holding out for a product worth upgrading for...
M$ it's whats for diner!!!!!
I am glad I'm not the only one disapointed in Vista.
On installing IE7 beta and rebooting, when IE7 goes through setting its stuff up, MS's Antispyware popups up and say it thinks "CoolWebsearch" is being installed - oops
I'd like to see a selective install that (like Linux installs) actually lets you strip out all the cruft. No Outlook, MSN, Move Maker, photo stuff, games, etc. Even allow you to choose a Win-2000 style interface at install time.
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
Bah I should've have picked that up myself....
I blame 5:00 am wake up call and no coffee....
It would be nice to get some honest/objective review of it. All that exist now is it alot of hot air...
M$ it's whats for diner!!!!!
So, have those wonderful people at Microsoft gotten around to making their browser compliant with, well, every other modern browser? Or did they just slap on some more goodies without actually fixing their notorious browser? I mean, does anyone else get fed up with having one stylesheet for IE and another for everything else?
GUI. Graphical User Interface. It's an art and a science all it's own. In the past, I did GUI programming for 4 years. It's an entire world when done right, with things like GUI standards, best practices, things called "deferred-create" and other cute names for ways to organize things on the screen.
I am shocked that a company like Microsoft can actually fuck up every GUI best practice rule out there.
IMO they spent a ton of time trying to rip of OS X and Aqua, but then change it enough so it has a look and feel as if it had Win XP roots. But it's a total mess. Scroll bars do not look like scroll bars, and are extremely faded. THERE IS DEAD SPACE EVERYWHERE!!! Six inch by one inch desk space areas just to show a word or two off text. Some buttons look like buttons, others look like internet links that are underlined, others only have an underline when you roll-over! I could go on and on, but I am seriously shocked. I know it's beta, but the UI will not change much, you are pretty much looking at the final product from a UI standpoint.
This is bad enough to make me leave the last Windows machine I have, and deal with windows just within a virtual environment on OS X. I "HAVE" to leave now, it's that bad a GUI. Shameful.
After much research, I found a way to have perfect CRM and financials for the small businesses out there that need to leave but can't because of those two reasons, those two kind of apps that DO run well on Windows.
Look at Salesforce.com, it works great in Safari (HTML and JavaScript, nothing else) and it misses nothing. And look at QuickBooks PRO for Mac OS X. You can only get Pro, not Premium for the Mac, but the few differences there will not be missed by most other than advanced accountants. And go with Apples Pages and Keynote or go with Open Office for the office work. Even MS Office for Mac if you need to, it's actually ok. That Salesforce.com + QuickBooks for Mac is what will help me live without Windows.
Bill G deserves a bitch smack for pushing such a counter-productive OS onto the world for the next several years. he will be wasting many decades worth of man hours for doing so. Criminal.
It looks like they finally built a good, intuitive UI.n g
http://www.brastensager.com/images/WindowsVista.p
They don't have to provide new features, improved security or a sturdy OS. They have 10 Billion dollars to make sure Windows Vista succeeds. As long as it's not a total flaming piece of crap, it'll sell and it'll sell well...
M$ it's whats for diner!!!!!
yea
First impressions: Their own antispy ware complains a couple of times. One because the URL browsing DLL is being changed (whatever the fuck that means) and another one:
Microsoft AntiSpyware has detected a change to your Internet Security Zone 'Restricted sites'. This zone contains Web sites that could potentially damage your computer or data..
Warning: This change sets your zone below the minimum security level.
This happens after launching IE7 for the first time.
My Zend studio plugin still works, which is a good thing.
Trillian just crashed, I assume it uses some crap from IE.
The icon is a bit different.
No option to keep IE6 as well.
Just typed my first URL (www.elpais.es, a Spanish newspaper). IE7 asks me if I want each site I visit to be verified with their Phishing Filter.
SpyBot asks me if it should let IE7 change the first page.
I don't think this is gonna be around for much longer.
I would buy karma from ebay but I'm not sure I can trust the seller.
Windows Vista, as in Hasta la Vista, Baby!
The original pre-beta build 4074 of Longhorn x86-32bit was a "mere" 820MB ISO file on MSDN subscriber site. I was able to write it onto a 99min CD-R and use it everywhere. This was the kind of Longhorn of which Bill Gates later said the hardware requirements are too much, so the internals of the new OS had to be changed quickly around late 2004, early 2005. OK, but...
Now the Vista beta on the same MSDN spot is a 2.42 GB (two dot four two gigabyte) large ISO file. Why the hell did it increase in size three-fold? Must be those special blue pills and vacuum pumps they advertise in unsolicited commercial electronic mail messages or what else. Three-fold size increase in less a year!
It will shatter walls, but you cannot use it without a DVD drive. One must wonder if the CPU and RAM requirements will also be 3x as large compared to the original, which even BG admitted was too resource hungry to use?
Or maybe they just compiled the Vista code with all comments retained...
It feels like a slightly more mature IE6. ... etc" bar to the very top where all normal applications to date have been.
Built in MSN search is kind of annoying, although I'd imagine there'll be either an option or a hack to make this into a google search (still a step behind FireFox's ability to choose from a plethora of search engines).
I was a bit distressed that the first time I visited my personal website and blog, a "Phishing" warning came up, telling me that I should be aware of sites that want to scam me. :S
It lacks the little animated icon that all web browsers have had in the top right corner of the screen showing if IE is still "working" or not. That's been changed to a tiny icon on the tab (IE 7 has tabs).
I'm annoyed that you can move the "File, Edit, View
Overall, thus far (its only been about an hour of use), I'd say IE7 is just IE6 with some shit moved around, added ActiveX protection, tabs support and a new icon.
Browser of choice is still FireFox, but MS seems to have made a step in the right direction.
Find Escorts, Strippers, Massage Parlours, Swingers
seriously.
It doesn't work anymore.
No uninstall option either.
When MS decides to make something their way, they're serious.
I would buy karma from ebay but I'm not sure I can trust the seller.
If IE used another engine, then we could finally stop writing multiple CSS hacks and fretting over lack of PNG support to make up for Trident's next-to-worthless implementation of both.
Yeah, right.
Hows about calling it PCMCIA "Protection Compromised-- Microsoft Can't Improve Anything"
I don't think that'll work, as People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms.
Look at the size of icons! They're freaking huge! They've got their own weather system. Icons! Pants! Now!
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
The cheapest option to get OSes betas with MSDN subscriptions seems to be MSDN Professional, at $699.
Or so it seems according to this: http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/subscribers/
$99 bucks now, huh?
I may get me one of those.
The last time I had an MSDN subscription was 1996/97.
I was working as an indepedent contractor, on Windows drivers.
The subscription ran me 3 or 4 large a year (but did include 10 float licenses for all MS OSs, and full international versions of same - call it 200 CDs a year. Give or take).
Now, I assume (please correct me), that $99 doesn't get you all the CDs; that you have to download material you are interested in (so it would be useless to internationalization efforts, stuff like that).
But it provides access to all those OSs and versions?
The reason I question this, is that the retail XP goes for 1 to 2 hundred around here. 10 licenses (floatable to different hardware) would then be 2 large, and having access to 20 or 30 (whatever) variants...
It would make MSDN a better deal than buying the OS!
Ratboy.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
I'd be interested to see how something like Valve's Steam would show up in the game window. Would it show up as just Steam, or would it show the various Steam-based games?
I personally have noticed no speed difference, but I have a fast machine.
My dad has a WinXP (no service pack 2) and i think his processor is less than 1 GHz. His drivers are the generic vga drivers. Firefox DOES crawl in this configuration. My sister tried to browse the web in firefox, but it was awfully slow. She switched to IE and it was much faster.
A tecnnical overview for a web browser in ".doc" format. Oh, Microsoft, will ye never change? http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?Fa milyId=718E9B3A-64FE-4A4C-9DDF-57AF0472EAD2&displa ylang=en
I suspect that some folks with mod points may attack early posts simply to discourage early posts. Without digressing too far OT (God forbid) about the merits of modding styles, I have seen a fair bit of instant TROLL modding for reasons I don't understand. Or do understand and don't agree with.
But I'm not going to "explain" the joke. I'm confident that whoever modded me down simply likes MS and got offended that I poked a little fun at the latest in a long line of on-schedule*, stable*, secure*, enjoyable*, standards-compliant*, affordable*, innovative*, configurable*, intuitive* offerings from the good folks in Redmond.
* Not Necessarily true.
Don't trust anyone under thirty.
Well... that was a whole lot of fuss about nothing. I truly don't know what I expected from Microsoft.
..system wide RSS integration and a whole-bunch-of-features-stolen-from-OSX branded with a Microsoft logo to make sure we all know it's high grade proprietary worthless crap that was actually and surprisingly developed by intelligent human beings and not just cobbled together by monkeys who arranged the shredded strands of 500 billion pages of printed source-code by sneezing at them.
Improved CSS support? Yeah. Right.
This is IE6 with tabs and a "phishing filter". Nothing new here. The RSS reader is abysmal, not even comparing to that of Safari 2.0.. not to mention I couldn't find a visible button to access the feeds on a website and had to dig in the tools menu for it.
CSS support has some minor improvements, but nothing groundbreaking. IE7 fails the Acid2 test miserably, which is tough luck because we're probably not going to see IE8 for 5 years now.
Microsoft have the future of SVG and CSS3 in the palms of their hands and they are content to toss it aside so they can implement a couple of silly superficial features to keep the monkey-brained masses happy and try to pass us developers off with "immproved CSS support" and a PNG transparent support which is nice, but frankly I'm having none of it. Microsoft have officially torn the final straw from my clutches and chewed it into a pulp before my very eyes.
As for Windows Vista.. whoopety-fucking-doo
And to think... how long has IE7 been in the works before it took them to come out with this shitty beta? In 10 minutes they could have handed the Mozilla group seven figures to use Gecko in their commercial crap-pile which would have made everyone happy. But nooooo, they can't even do the sensible thing.
Money grubbing idiots.
Gadgetoid.com - Gadgets & Games Journalism
Consider how we treat animals, I doubt we'll bat an eyelash
Most people seem to avoid considering animals as being self-aware in the sense that humans are. Whether that's true or not, if you had some kind of formal proof that a software component was self-aware in that sense... would that make a difference.
With their new anti phishing filter features:
1) They get to know what URLs users go to (will they sell this info to The Man, advertisers?)
2) Will small from groups (political, fans etc.) of users get to at least temporarily block certain websites from being visited by other IE users? Microsoft will have fun managing this. Or is that a 3rd party opportunity?
3) Will they block sites they dont like by accident like google or yahoo?
I can tell you for sure that M$ developers spent a lot of time studying features in FireFox. I can hardly see anything which is not already available in FireFox
In all fairness, the first time that you try to go to a page different from the default, it opens up a security window that explains the filter, and offers to turn it on. So even though it is off by default, the first time using the browser it will offer to turn it on for you.
My Protected mode with Priviledge Separation:
/usr/bin/firefox"
/home/Download /home/Download /home/Download
xhost local:
sudo su firefox -c "nohup
PS: my download directory:
sudo mkdir
sudo chmod 770
sudo chown myname:firefox
I'm currently waiting for the 2.4G download to finish! :-)
I'm only really interested to see if my driver (WDM) still works
return 0; }
We have an MSDN subscription at work and I was curious...so I just threw IE7 on a machine and bounced around some sites with it for 10 minutes or so. It was extremely slow! It took forever to render pages, especially once I had the browser open for a while and with 3 or 4 tabs going. I know it's an early beta build but I hope it's alot faster by the time it's released to the public.
They've changed the directory setup from the unnecessarily long and stupid "C:\Documents and Settings\username" to "C:\Users\username". What a coincidence -- that's the first thing I change when I add a new account to a 2k or XP box, and I redirect "My Documents" there too. It makes using the command-line sane. Yay!
Now, if only they could get rid of the antiquated "C:" and change the "\" to "/", using the windows command-line shell could actually start to become tolerable. It is nice that cygwin takes care of all that with the present versions, though.
Sounds like there's no upgrade from XP option as of yet? Can anyone confirm this? I guess that will definitely keep in the hands of developers or other power users who know all about dual-booting (or can dedicate a machine to it.) Probably harder to discover software compatibility bugs, like the many that plagued XP SP2. I was thinking about installing it at home, but have a strong suspicion that it won't work with my old Belkin PCI wireless card, thus making it not worth the effort of dual booting that machine.
I think Microsoft may be getting more beta testers than hoped. All the torrents are hugely busy (the ones that aren't down).
I threw together some quick tests for a few of my most hated IE issues to see if there has been anything fixed.
t ml
t ml
All are still just as broken as in IE6. It looks like VERY little effort has been put into the rendering engine so far. Absolutely pathetic.
http://www.lysergic.org.nz/testcss/divhover.html
http://www.lysergic.org.nz/testcss/selectheight.h
http://www.lysergic.org.nz/testcss/selectzindex.h
Interestingly enough, the IE7 search field defaults to Google (but supports MSN, Yahoo, AOL and Ask Jeeves.
According to this site http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/subscribers MSDN-Operating Systems Level is $699. To me, yes, that is lots of money.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
I can't believe that they could screw up interface so much. IE7 breaks Microsofts own GUI guidelines.
They apparently wanted to make it simple (only 2 buttons, like a browser for monkeys), but by making all toolbars upside down they've made it look more confusing and chaotic than Netscape 8.
gnome.
Check out the screen shot of the explorer directory tree view. It is identical to gnome. Haha
Also, i hear it will reduce the number of reboots. does this mean that you wont have to restart windos to "remove those locked files"... pfff
try any unix, a program will just keep running after you delete all its files, cause the inodes are still in the inode cache until the last reference disapears. you can even remove a directory while you are using it. hard links anybody, do i even need to continue. ps: reiser4 beats the shit out of ntfs...
will this new windos of which you speak come with a network que better than FIFO like htb or cbq..
he speaks as a representative of captain obvious to the overrated grandparent.
over $2000 for there stupid useless MSDN just so I can try the beta out. Not, I guess I will be going to kazza later.
CyberCPU.net
Here they are.
Will IE 7 run on wine so all of us linux and bsd users can enjoy this high quality product.
Has Alt-tab improved ? Compare to Mac OS X's Expose feature ... can they compete yet?
Can someone tell plz..
I did about 30 min of testing, going around all the quirks and compliance sites. The rendering engine has either not been worked on yet or maybe they are pushing that "feature" out to IE8.
Got some more details on my blog, case yer interested. (No ads, don't worry.)
Exactly :-)
What, it's not working. You should probably inform the people who are trying to get it to work. Maybe they can fix your problems.
Ewige Blumenkraft.
seriously, IE6 with tabs and anti-phishing?
it's the 21st century, not 1999.
I can see why they renamed it from Longhorn, but if this is supposed to open up Windows to new Vistas, it's going to be severely disappointing to a lot of people.
better name would be Windows Barely Adequate
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Can anyone tell if IE 7 does any better than IE 6 at all? Then renderings look nearly identical to me. So much for improved standards support in IE 7, as if anyone thought that would actually happen
The main prob is that noone really cares about ACID, it's just another acronym that no browser supports.
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First of all, how do we expect people to respect the GNU GPL when they don't respect commercial licenses.
And secondly, we should be encouraging a migration path from Windows to Linux. Lowering the barrier to microsoft upgrades doesn't help anybody but Microsoft.
I have this great button that just says "Windows '95 = Macintosh '89".
I think my Dad picked it up a local Mac shop in 95. I wore it on my backpack for the remainder of highschool (yes, I was lame).
I suppose now we'll have to mint one that says "Windows Vista = OS X 10.0.0"
With the first link, the chain is forged.
So you mean that Safari, Konqueror, and iCab aren't browsers, and soon Firefox and Opera won't be, either? Weird.
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
She said it sounded to her like a sexually transmitted disease!
And, by the way, what phrase is Acid an acronym for?
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
Setup has been MUCH improved. Far easier to follow. Installation took about an hour and 10 minutes. (1.6GHz Pentium-M and 1GB of RAM)
How long for all the security patches and updates afterwards? That took me a day at DSL 640Mbps speeds alone when I got a new XP laptop. Plus the silly verification thing - mandatory on my PC.
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I think it might be in opera, but not firefox. Up in the group of tabs there is a small mini tab on the far right, if you click it, a new tab is created. This is preffered to hitting "alt+t" or file "new tab". Unfortunately microsoft doesn't integrate a nice feature with it's intellimouse explorer, where by if you push the wheel to the right or left your switch tabs. I just found this out in firefox, and love the hell out of it.
depends, are you saying they're fully Acid2 compliant, including extensions?
you may have me on Safari - never heard of the other two, and I have Firefox and Opera on my home laptop and Firefox on my work PC.
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The latest CVS version of Safari renders it properly. The latest beta of iCab renders it properly. And, IIRC, the version of Konqueror in Subversion renders it properly too.
There's no such thing as "Acid2 compliant", browsers don't support it, it's not an acronym, and there aren't any extensions to it. It's a web page. The way you talk, you seem to be under the impression that it's some sort of file format or protocol.
Given that you don't seem to know what Acid2 is and haven't heard of many web browsers, are you really qualified to tell people what browsers do and don't support?
I am quite disappointed. While the install is much simpler, I found the actual useability to be pretty awful. I'm running it on a 3.0 GHz system with hyperthreading and 1 Gb of memory and SATA hard drives.
I found the new shell very akward and clinky. Navigation was HARD, which shouldn't be the case. I can't see the other computers in the workgroup I set the system to be part of, although I can enter a UNC name of a share and see it. The virtual folders were hard to figure out. Just can't see a non-technical user figuring this out. The new start menu was OK and perhaps cleaner than the old style.
IE7 is just too little. The tabs are pathetic. Given the many examples out there, it is amazing that MS did such a poor job.
I've used a lot of MS beta 1 stuff since the Windows 3.1 days and while this one appears a bit more stable than most, given the hype, I was underwhelmed.
I've installed Vista on a Tablet PC tc4200, for all those that were wondering, it seems no tablet functionaliy is in this build of Vista, but it runs fine on the tablet. I'm not sure if MS plans on keeping 2 versions of the OS- one for 'standard' PC's and another for tablets. You can see some screenshots and comments I have about Vista Beta 1 on my blog. I'll keep it updated as I explore. http://mtavel.blogspot.com/
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced."
Want to find other gamers to play board and role playing game
It's not. Read Tom Wolfe.
observe.
This is the result of the acid2 test, a test designed to rate the CSS compliance of a browser. At the moment, afaik Safari is the only fully compliant browser, with Firefox and Opera following closely behind.
This a great shame - I had naively hoped that Microsoft would fix their broken browser, and surprise us all by conforming to the standards. They had a great opportunity to really put IE back on the right track, and it looks like they've blown it.
Good job Microsoft - you're completely out of touch with what the web development community actualy wants.
Microsoft isn't going to fall to its knees one week after Vista is released. It's not going to collapse for another few years, at least. They have a massive bankroll and a monopoly that's not being contested. The millions of Joe Users out there aren't going to say "LOOK AT VISTA!!! MAC IS BETTER!!! LET'S ALL SWITCH AND BRING DOWN MICROSOFT IN ONE FELL SWOOP!!!"
Eventually, Microsoft's reign will come to an end. But don't get your hopes up for next year.
You're raving about Apple building the equivalent of DirectX?
Right.
It used to be much worse...
.NET stuff, MS product announcements. It's actually becoming a site for real geeks rather than just linux nerds.
It's honestly getting better... we're seeing book reviews now for
Interesting. According to your blog you are a university student... apparently in about your junior year of Computer Engineering.
Yet you think knowledge holds no value?
What are you going to do for a job when you get out of school, since being paid to do engineering work is against your religion?
Maybe you could live with your parents?
I have 3 linux installations including FC4, SuSE93 and MDK2005LE,
why the hell should I beta Windows Vista?
If I want little desktop effects, I'll turn on X compositing with gcompmgr and use gDesklets.
Over the last dozen or so years my various mega-corp employers have paid me a total of $1.5M+, (not including inflation), to use thier subscriptions. If I had paid for the subscription myself, I would still be laughing.
Cue the "sold my soul to the devil" replies from the teens in thier basements who can only use one O/S.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I remember working with beta 1 of Windows 2000, and being singularly unimpressed. It just seemed like a screwed up version of NT4 with lousy P'n'P and a few UI twiddles hacked in from Win98.
;)
Win2k beta 2 was a whole new ball game IMO. That was when the whole thing started to gel as a product.
On that basis I'd say it's a bit early to say whether Vista will be a reasonable product or not. Whichever way it goes, I'm not going to bother installing it until beta 2 anyway
...has anybody put the Vista Beta on one of the Intel-based Mac's?
This sig rocks the casbah.
Combine that with the basic MSDN and you have a good foundation to work from if you have to deal with MS stuff (okay, crap for the /. crowd) on a daily basis before you come home to a rational universe.
"[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go