I second sibling post's " Uhm, you're saying that the reason we don't shoot indians anymore is that there aren't a whole lot left?" and add a "WTF?" and a "Why are we comparing Native Americans to companies who are mean to their workers?"
From what I understand from the website, CNR is subscription-based, not pay for each program. It also does updates and security fixes as well. You also get "Priority Support" with CNR Gold. So I'm pretty sure it does everything you say you want it to do.
>>I waited on that one, and finally got it hoping that it would explain WTF happened to Tidus at the end of FFX. But, supposedly it doesn't,
Tidus was kinda like an Aeon in X, in the sense that he was a creation of the fayth. At the end of X, they killed the Aeons, releasing the fayth from their duties (no, I don't know why they didn't have to kill Tidus too) causing Tidus and all the other aeons to be gone "forever" (no, I don't understand what the thing with Tidus and Jecht and Auron was at the end). Then, in X-2, "Dark Aeons" show up, and they don't explain why. Then Tidus shows up, because the fayth (who are like hanging around as ghosts or something) feel bad for Yuna. For some reason, he's independant of the fayth now (how?) so he doesn't have to worry about disappearing again if the fayth ever get sick of summoning his whiney ass and he and Yuna can live happily ever after. Of course, it's not like the fayth could have done that in the first place, they have to wait until after some crazy happens where a ghost who looks just like Tidus shows up and tries to destroy the world. Yeah.
I played the Xenogears demo, and you have like 10 times and many hitpoints as you do at the beginning of the real game, and you have a full party instead of just your main character. I think Sqaure is afraid that if people die in their demos they won't buy the game. I see your point about not having the status screen, and it does make me kinda worried that it won't have a status screen (they changed everything else), but I did think the battles were fun.
Sky Pirates don't bother me, and it's cool to see vieras (bunny girls) and bangas (lizard boys) since I like FFTA, but I wish they didn't dress the vieras up in lingerie. It's like Squenix thought they needed to give people more encouragement to call them playboy bunnies. Grr.
I haven't preordered it. I'm debating, but the last time I preordered and bought a Squenix game the day it came out it was X-2, which I so thought was going to be awesome, so I'm going to be a little more cautious this time.
I liked the demo. Yeah, it was incredibly easy, but when have you seen a demo that was remotely challenging? I like the changes they made to the battle system; there's only so much they could do with turn based/ATB stuff, so I'm glad they're being creative.
>>OK, you've obviously never played the later Zelda games, so I'm not going to bother continuing past this post. HINT: Other items and abilities can utilize the wind...
I've played more Zelda games than you have.
>>As for classes, yes, you can change a character's class/job. Big deal. But the classes I listed are what they start as.
You can change classes in 3, 5, and X-2. 1, 4, and 9 have set classes. 2, 6, 7, 8, and 10 have no classes. If you'ld ever actually played these games you'ld know that.
>>I don't remember what Terra's official class was, but in FFVI they did all have classes as their special ability was defined by their class. She was essentially a Red Mage as I recall. I think I'll call her a "Bard" because all I can remember about her special ability was that I never used it. I believe Vincent was considered an Engineer. I had to look up Firion, I believe he was classified a Warrior.
Bullshit. If Terra was a Red Mage, then so was Celes, Edgar, Cyan, and everyone else who could equip a sword and use white and black magic, and if you knock out the sword requirement for Red Mage and just say someone who can fight and use white and black magic, then everyone in that game was a red mage (except the Yeti). I don't know where the fuck "Bard" came from, before she certainly wasn't that. Her special ability is "Morph" which changes her to her esper form. I don't know where you get engineer for Vincent either. As for Firion, well he was rather black magey in my game. The FF2 charactors don't have anything to indicate class at all. You choose the spells they learn, you choose the skills they earn. If they follow any particular class, that's you're choice. They learn whatever you want them to.
>>Once you've played an hour into any Final Fantasy, you've seen all the gameplay there is.
Then appearently you've never played more than an hour of any Final Fantasy, because it takes more than an hour to really understand the new gameplay systems, and many times you can't even use all the gameplay mechanics until 5 or 10 hours in. In 6, there's no way you could get espers until at least 5 hours in, especially on your first playthrough, and they are a huge part of the gameplay.
>>The only thing you haven't done in an hour is the stupid minigames,
After an hour, you've barely scratched the surface of any Final Fantasy. Even the old games have 30 hours of gameplay, without stupid minigames. Why don't you go play through a whole Final Fantasy before going off about what they lack?
>>The the "couple of new items" in Zelda drastically change the gameplay and what you can do.... They're not minor differences like the advancement systems in the FF games are, they completely change how the game is played.
How the fuck does adding a few items change how the game is played? So you can change the wind, big fucking deal.
>>Um - yes, there are. I just listed them.
Dude are you dense? I just explained there aren't. Think Tidus is a warrior? Watch him double-cast Ultima. Think Yuna is a white mage? Watch her steal. Think Lulu is a black mage? Watch her cast Life. While you're thinking about this, what class is Terra? What class is Firion? What class is Vincent? You can't answer those questions without completely making shit up.
>>I've played nearly every Zelda game except for a couple that were on the Game Boy,
The gameboy games were actually the best, in my opinion.
>>and have played essentially every single Final Fantasy game (although not all the way through, I'm not masochistic enough).
Well, appearently you didn't play far enough into them to understand the gameplay.
>>So, you found three similarities between Zelda games, and I listed seven between FF games. Yep, definitely see how that shows Zelda isn't innovative.
You listed simularities between two FFs. I listed simularities between all Zeldas.
>>It's the same freaking thing!
Whatever. How come overhauling the gameplay in FFs is "the same freaking thing!" yet adding a couple of new items in Zelda is innovation?
>>Wanna bet? Each character has a general class.
No. In 8 and 10 (and 7, 6, and 2) there are no classes, you choose skills that your charactors gain without any class structure. Some charactors have special abilities, like Yuna was the only one that could summon, but you could teach her black magic, fighting skills, etc. White mages don't fight or cast black magic. Warriors, like you claim Squall and Tidus are, don't cast magic, but they do, so obviously they aren't warriors. You could use them as warriors (or any other class, for that matter) but they don't have specific classes.
You never did answer my question of how many Final Fantasies and Zeldas you've played.
>>You're wrong. Compare FF8 with FF10.
Be glad to. Let's see, the main character in both is a whiney teenager with a large sword, who goes around the world using magic such as Fire and Ice to defeat enemies. Both carry around stocks of potions in case they get injured. Both can unleash large sword attacks after reaching their "limit". Both fight some entity devoted to controlling the world. Both find an airship which they use to travel around the world.
Alright, now compare Ocarina with Wind Waker.
The main charactor is a dude wearing green who doesn't talk. He hits things with a sword on the way to defeat Ganon. He can use other items like bows and stuff.
Feel the innovation!
But wait, I just describes every other Zelda game!
>>Oh, right, in FFVIII it was "XP", in FFX it was "AP". I suppose that's innovative too. Changing a letter.
Not quite. X completely did away with the level-up system and replaced it with the Sphere Grid system. VIII kept the level-up system, but totally overhauled the magic system with drawing magic and junctioning GFs and other wierd stuff not seen in any other FF. Neither game includes the classes that you said are in every FF.
>>>Zelda does repeat the story, but no one plays games for the story.
I do. Many games have better stories than your average TV show. I play games instead of watch TV.
I'm not surprised that the orginal FF rated at the bottom, it really didn't age well, IMHO.I'm really surprised though that 6 got so low. I would have thought that would be in the top 3.
>>You might want to try playing the Zelda games before talking about them and sounding like a complete idiot. Each Zelda game has built on the previous games, and greatly expanded the gameplay based on them.
I've played every one of the Zelda games, including the gameboy games. I've also played every one of the Final Fantasy games. How many have you played?
Zelda did go through a big gameplay change between 2d and 3d, and the story of Ocarina was really cool. However, there really isn't all that much difference between them gameplaywise, and the storyline is [i]always [/i]Ganon's bad, go take him out with your mute avator Link. Oh, a couple of games have had Vaati as the bad guy, and Link's Awakening had that interesting thing with the Wind Fish, but the Zelda people really do not put any effort into the story. Final Fantasy does tend to reuse the cliche of bad guy tries to take over the world but montley band of youths defeats him, but at least they have actual charactors with backstories, not just placeholders like Zelda does.
>>If you've played on Final Fantasy game, you know how to play the rest. The same isn't true for Zelda.
You're wrong. Compare FF8 with FF10. There's a world of difference in the magic system, class system, level up system, etc. Now compare Ocarina to Wind Waker. The battle system is almost exactly the same, with a few extra items like Deku Leaf that don't actually count as creative. Don't get me wrong, I love the Zelda gameplay, but they do reuse the same gameplay from game to game. Final Fantasy is much more innovative and different from game to game than Zelda is.
Would it change your mind if you were strip searched down each time you left through any but the exit without RFID scanners.
GP already said that he wouldn't go to a store that would search you based on what exit you choose. I'm guessing adding "strip" to search wouldn't make that any more appealing to him.
>>Now just because something is a sequel doesn't mean it can't be innovative (see the Zelda series) - it's just in Final Fantasy's case, they weren't innovative and just more of the same.
I would describe Zelda as being "more of the same" before Final Fantasy. At least Final Fantasy has a story with unique charactors. Zelda doesn't even [i]try[/i] (for the most part, though Ocarina did have a cool storyline) to have a unique story or well-made charactors.
>>You're better off on the PC. Not much more money, and you can use it for other stuff too.
Not that much more money?!? A PC with the recommended specs will easily cost you twice as much as a 360. I hate it when people talk about PC gaming like it's cheaper than console, because it it quite clearly is not. And yes, while you can use the PC for other stuff, you could also use a much cheaper PC that you don't have to upgrade every year for all that other stuff. Sure, gaming PCs do have benefits over consoles, but don't try to pretend they aren't a lot more money.
If you miss the simplicity of consoles, then why do you have an elaborate gaming PC instead? Consoles, even the 360, are still pretty much on the level of 'put game in. play'. Sure, you've got some more stuff you could do with it, but if that really turns you off, then just buy a gameboy and support the company that makes simple hardware.
>> Even getting a DVD to really work can be a pain with Linux. Hate to even think about a DVD-RW.
Data DVDs/DVD-Rws work just fine. (Encrypted) Movie DVDs have problems because there's no offical DVD player for Linux, so linux distros can't enable DVD support by default or even tell you how to do it in the help file because it's illegal. Yes, it's illegal to watch most legally bought and paid for DVDs on a Linux box. Don't blame Linux, blame the MPAA.
>>"Free" is not a killer feature when the alternative costs $200. I'd pay $500 per copy of Windows 2000/XP. And spyware and viruses... nope, never had a single one.
Huh? If free isn't a killer feature when the alternative costs $200, then when is it a killer feature?
And if you've never had a virus or spyware, then you've never connected a Windows computer to the internet.
I will admit, I'm a rarity. I'm happy with the PSP library.
I'm glad you're happy with it. I just don't really understand it, because the DS has a stronger lineup at half the price. The only games for the PSP I'm interested in our Valkyrie Profile and Tales of Eternia, and I have both for PS1, so it doesn't look worth $250 from my view.
I do like the competition though. It's better for us gamers if we have more choice.
Those PSP owners that aren't have all the glorious homebrew they could ever want. The PSP has emulators for damn near every older system you could ever want, including GBA.
Well, as I understand, you have to get the old firmware versions, which are hard to find anymore, and you have to avoid some of the new games that upgrade it automatically. If I wanted a handheld for homebrew & emulators, I'ld get something designed for that and cheaper, like a GP2x.
Legend of Heroes? Lord of the Rings: Tactics? Metal Gear: AC!D? Lumines? Untold Legends? There's lots of games that are new and different and interesting. And those are just the ones I own. What PSP did you buy?
Untold legends and LotR: Tactics got bad reviews, Legend of Heroes got shitass reviews, and card battles and puzzle games don't do anything for me.
Compared to the DS, which has excellent games in almost every genre, is half the price of a PSP, and plays the bajillions of excellent gba games, I don't understand how the PSP even competes.
Slashdot Mirror
I second sibling post's " Uhm, you're saying that the reason we don't shoot indians anymore is that there aren't a whole lot left?" and add a "WTF?" and a "Why are we comparing Native Americans to companies who are mean to their workers?"
From what I understand from the website, CNR is subscription-based, not pay for each program. It also does updates and security fixes as well. You also get "Priority Support" with CNR Gold. So I'm pretty sure it does everything you say you want it to do.
There's still private charities now, and there were still poor people then.
>>I waited on that one, and finally got it hoping that it would explain WTF happened to Tidus at the end of FFX. But, supposedly it doesn't,
:(
Tidus was kinda like an Aeon in X, in the sense that he was a creation of the fayth. At the end of X, they killed the Aeons, releasing the fayth from their duties (no, I don't know why they didn't have to kill Tidus too) causing Tidus and all the other aeons to be gone "forever" (no, I don't understand what the thing with Tidus and Jecht and Auron was at the end). Then, in X-2, "Dark Aeons" show up, and they don't explain why. Then Tidus shows up, because the fayth (who are like hanging around as ghosts or something) feel bad for Yuna. For some reason, he's independant of the fayth now (how?) so he doesn't have to worry about disappearing again if the fayth ever get sick of summoning his whiney ass and he and Yuna can live happily ever after. Of course, it's not like the fayth could have done that in the first place, they have to wait until after some crazy happens where a ghost who looks just like Tidus shows up and tries to destroy the world. Yeah.
I was so excited for that game.
>>Decades ago, Americans weren't this poor.
No. Decades ago, we were just really good at ignoring the poor.
I played the Xenogears demo, and you have like 10 times and many hitpoints as you do at the beginning of the real game, and you have a full party instead of just your main character. I think Sqaure is afraid that if people die in their demos they won't buy the game. I see your point about not having the status screen, and it does make me kinda worried that it won't have a status screen (they changed everything else), but I did think the battles were fun.
Sky Pirates don't bother me, and it's cool to see vieras (bunny girls) and bangas (lizard boys) since I like FFTA, but I wish they didn't dress the vieras up in lingerie. It's like Squenix thought they needed to give people more encouragement to call them playboy bunnies. Grr.
I haven't preordered it. I'm debating, but the last time I preordered and bought a Squenix game the day it came out it was X-2, which I so thought was going to be awesome, so I'm going to be a little more cautious this time.
I liked the demo. Yeah, it was incredibly easy, but when have you seen a demo that was remotely challenging? I like the changes they made to the battle system; there's only so much they could do with turn based/ATB stuff, so I'm glad they're being creative.
>>OK, you've obviously never played the later Zelda games, so I'm not going to bother continuing past this post. HINT: Other items and abilities can utilize the wind...
I've played more Zelda games than you have.
>>As for classes, yes, you can change a character's class/job. Big deal. But the classes I listed are what they start as.
You can change classes in 3, 5, and X-2. 1, 4, and 9 have set classes. 2, 6, 7, 8, and 10 have no classes. If you'ld ever actually played these games you'ld know that.
>>I don't remember what Terra's official class was, but in FFVI they did all have classes as their special ability was defined by their class. She was essentially a Red Mage as I recall. I think I'll call her a "Bard" because all I can remember about her special ability was that I never used it. I believe Vincent was considered an Engineer. I had to look up Firion, I believe he was classified a Warrior.
Bullshit. If Terra was a Red Mage, then so was Celes, Edgar, Cyan, and everyone else who could equip a sword and use white and black magic, and if you knock out the sword requirement for Red Mage and just say someone who can fight and use white and black magic, then everyone in that game was a red mage (except the Yeti). I don't know where the fuck "Bard" came from, before she certainly wasn't that. Her special ability is "Morph" which changes her to her esper form. I don't know where you get engineer for Vincent either. As for Firion, well he was rather black magey in my game. The FF2 charactors don't have anything to indicate class at all. You choose the spells they learn, you choose the skills they earn. If they follow any particular class, that's you're choice. They learn whatever you want them to.
>>Once you've played an hour into any Final Fantasy, you've seen all the gameplay there is.
Then appearently you've never played more than an hour of any Final Fantasy, because it takes more than an hour to really understand the new gameplay systems, and many times you can't even use all the gameplay mechanics until 5 or 10 hours in. In 6, there's no way you could get espers until at least 5 hours in, especially on your first playthrough, and they are a huge part of the gameplay.
>>The only thing you haven't done in an hour is the stupid minigames,
After an hour, you've barely scratched the surface of any Final Fantasy. Even the old games have 30 hours of gameplay, without stupid minigames. Why don't you go play through a whole Final Fantasy before going off about what they lack?
>>The the "couple of new items" in Zelda drastically change the gameplay and what you can do.... They're not minor differences like the advancement systems in the FF games are, they completely change how the game is played.
How the fuck does adding a few items change how the game is played? So you can change the wind, big fucking deal.
>>Um - yes, there are. I just listed them.
Dude are you dense? I just explained there aren't. Think Tidus is a warrior? Watch him double-cast Ultima. Think Yuna is a white mage? Watch her steal. Think Lulu is a black mage? Watch her cast Life. While you're thinking about this, what class is Terra? What class is Firion? What class is Vincent? You can't answer those questions without completely making shit up.
>>I've played nearly every Zelda game except for a couple that were on the Game Boy,
The gameboy games were actually the best, in my opinion.
>>and have played essentially every single Final Fantasy game (although not all the way through, I'm not masochistic enough).
Well, appearently you didn't play far enough into them to understand the gameplay.
>>So a mafia killing is treated the same as say, a father murdering the kid-next-door who was messing around with his daughter?
Uh, which one are you saying is worse? Because I wouldn't have a problem with them both getting life.
>>So, you found three similarities between Zelda games, and I listed seven between FF games. Yep, definitely see how that shows Zelda isn't innovative.
You listed simularities between two FFs. I listed simularities between all Zeldas.
>>It's the same freaking thing!
Whatever. How come overhauling the gameplay in FFs is "the same freaking thing!" yet adding a couple of new items in Zelda is innovation?
>>Wanna bet? Each character has a general class.
No. In 8 and 10 (and 7, 6, and 2) there are no classes, you choose skills that your charactors gain without any class structure. Some charactors have special abilities, like Yuna was the only one that could summon, but you could teach her black magic, fighting skills, etc. White mages don't fight or cast black magic. Warriors, like you claim Squall and Tidus are, don't cast magic, but they do, so obviously they aren't warriors. You could use them as warriors (or any other class, for that matter) but they don't have specific classes.
You never did answer my question of how many Final Fantasies and Zeldas you've played.
>>You're wrong. Compare FF8 with FF10. Be glad to. Let's see, the main character in both is a whiney teenager with a large sword, who goes around the world using magic such as Fire and Ice to defeat enemies. Both carry around stocks of potions in case they get injured. Both can unleash large sword attacks after reaching their "limit". Both fight some entity devoted to controlling the world. Both find an airship which they use to travel around the world.
Alright, now compare Ocarina with Wind Waker.
The main charactor is a dude wearing green who doesn't talk. He hits things with a sword on the way to defeat Ganon. He can use other items like bows and stuff.
Feel the innovation!
But wait, I just describes every other Zelda game!
>>Oh, right, in FFVIII it was "XP", in FFX it was "AP". I suppose that's innovative too. Changing a letter.
Not quite. X completely did away with the level-up system and replaced it with the Sphere Grid system. VIII kept the level-up system, but totally overhauled the magic system with drawing magic and junctioning GFs and other wierd stuff not seen in any other FF. Neither game includes the classes that you said are in every FF.
>>>Zelda does repeat the story, but no one plays games for the story.
I do. Many games have better stories than your average TV show. I play games instead of watch TV.
I'm not surprised that the orginal FF rated at the bottom, it really didn't age well, IMHO.I'm really surprised though that 6 got so low. I would have thought that would be in the top 3.
>>You might want to try playing the Zelda games before talking about them and sounding like a complete idiot. Each Zelda game has built on the previous games, and greatly expanded the gameplay based on them.
I've played every one of the Zelda games, including the gameboy games. I've also played every one of the Final Fantasy games. How many have you played?
Zelda did go through a big gameplay change between 2d and 3d, and the story of Ocarina was really cool. However, there really isn't all that much difference between them gameplaywise, and the storyline is [i]always [/i]Ganon's bad, go take him out with your mute avator Link. Oh, a couple of games have had Vaati as the bad guy, and Link's Awakening had that interesting thing with the Wind Fish, but the Zelda people really do not put any effort into the story. Final Fantasy does tend to reuse the cliche of bad guy tries to take over the world but montley band of youths defeats him, but at least they have actual charactors with backstories, not just placeholders like Zelda does.
>>If you've played on Final Fantasy game, you know how to play the rest. The same isn't true for Zelda.
You're wrong. Compare FF8 with FF10. There's a world of difference in the magic system, class system, level up system, etc. Now compare Ocarina to Wind Waker. The battle system is almost exactly the same, with a few extra items like Deku Leaf that don't actually count as creative. Don't get me wrong, I love the Zelda gameplay, but they do reuse the same gameplay from game to game. Final Fantasy is much more innovative and different from game to game than Zelda is.
Would it change your mind if you were strip searched down each time you left through any but the exit without RFID scanners.
GP already said that he wouldn't go to a store that would search you based on what exit you choose. I'm guessing adding "strip" to search wouldn't make that any more appealing to him.
>>Now just because something is a sequel doesn't mean it can't be innovative (see the Zelda series) - it's just in Final Fantasy's case, they weren't innovative and just more of the same.
I would describe Zelda as being "more of the same" before Final Fantasy. At least Final Fantasy has a story with unique charactors. Zelda doesn't even [i]try[/i] (for the most part, though Ocarina did have a cool storyline) to have a unique story or well-made charactors.
>>You're better off on the PC. Not much more money, and you can use it for other stuff too.
Not that much more money?!? A PC with the recommended specs will easily cost you twice as much as a 360. I hate it when people talk about PC gaming like it's cheaper than console, because it it quite clearly is not. And yes, while you can use the PC for other stuff, you could also use a much cheaper PC that you don't have to upgrade every year for all that other stuff. Sure, gaming PCs do have benefits over consoles, but don't try to pretend they aren't a lot more money.
If you miss the simplicity of consoles, then why do you have an elaborate gaming PC instead? Consoles, even the 360, are still pretty much on the level of 'put game in. play'. Sure, you've got some more stuff you could do with it, but if that really turns you off, then just buy a gameboy and support the company that makes simple hardware.
Verizon does not charge the recipient of a text message.
That explains why he kept the account for 5 years.
>> Even getting a DVD to really work can be a pain with Linux. Hate to even think about a DVD-RW.
Data DVDs/DVD-Rws work just fine. (Encrypted) Movie DVDs have problems because there's no offical DVD player for Linux, so linux distros can't enable DVD support by default or even tell you how to do it in the help file because it's illegal. Yes, it's illegal to watch most legally bought and paid for DVDs on a Linux box. Don't blame Linux, blame the MPAA.
>>"Free" is not a killer feature when the alternative costs $200. I'd pay $500 per copy of Windows 2000/XP. And spyware and viruses... nope, never had a single one.
Huh? If free isn't a killer feature when the alternative costs $200, then when is it a killer feature?
And if you've never had a virus or spyware, then you've never connected a Windows computer to the internet.
Children of Mana is new 2d RPG they're making that looks really good, but yeah, it's not final fantasy.
I will admit, I'm a rarity. I'm happy with the PSP library.
I'm glad you're happy with it. I just don't really understand it, because the DS has a stronger lineup at half the price. The only games for the PSP I'm interested in our Valkyrie Profile and Tales of Eternia, and I have both for PS1, so it doesn't look worth $250 from my view.
I do like the competition though. It's better for us gamers if we have more choice. Those PSP owners that aren't have all the glorious homebrew they could ever want. The PSP has emulators for damn near every older system you could ever want, including GBA.
Well, as I understand, you have to get the old firmware versions, which are hard to find anymore, and you have to avoid some of the new games that upgrade it automatically. If I wanted a handheld for homebrew & emulators, I'ld get something designed for that and cheaper, like a GP2x.
Legend of Heroes?
Lord of the Rings: Tactics?
Metal Gear: AC!D?
Lumines?
Untold Legends?
There's lots of games that are new and different and interesting. And those are just the ones I own. What PSP did you buy?
Untold legends and LotR: Tactics got bad reviews, Legend of Heroes got shitass reviews, and card battles and puzzle games don't do anything for me.
Compared to the DS, which has excellent games in almost every genre, is half the price of a PSP, and plays the bajillions of excellent gba games, I don't understand how the PSP even competes.
>>> Is that "Z" in the worst position possible or what?
How is it a bad position?
I think the cube controller's one of the most comfortable.